It's a business. Obviously it is about money. They have to pay their bills just like anybody else. They need to make a profit above and beyond covering their expenses, because they also need to invest in the future as well as entice others to invest in the future.
The bad governing thing rubbed me the wrong way - while your efforts are commendable, no doubt in the least - this is a game, the suggestion was a simple one of folks sharing a common interest sharing that interest with one another - not about trying to change the world. Your reply was...wow...you know?
It gets into a sense of entitlement, which may be off. But it comes off as such. Cryptic may not have provided exactly what everybody wants - but - they haven't restricted folks entirely from doing certain things. As long as their are private matches, bazinga - there's so much players could do...if they wanted to do so. Blaming Cryptic is kind of sad...there's plenty of thins to blame them for, lol - but blaming them because they haven't invested in something that may not show a return and thus be bad for the game as a whole...while they've still left room for players to take it upon themselves to do such...and the players simply not wanting to put the effort or commitment into it...yeah, just rubs me wrong.
drk's been trying to get folks involved in that Territory thing forever...it's an awesome idea, imho. Personally though, I just can't make that kind of commitment. Even if Cryptic did it, unless they did it in some extremely casual fashion...I wouldn't participate then either.
It's a game. Games will change. Can adapt to those changes, find ways around those changes if the game allows (such as STO does for much), or can walk away from the game...
...suggesting players withhold financial support until Cryptic changes something, well - that's extortion. .............
Sorry you had my interest until that bit. Players are angry that the game acts too much with corporate ambitions that work against their PVP interests and aren't built after what they want to spend money on and yet you think it's extortion to withdraw that funding because the supply doesn't fit the demand.
Well you might as well cut a hole into your pocket and put your life savings in it if you don't care about how you spend your money.
Don't get angry when somebody who knows how to organize money makes a pragmatic suggestion. Maybe it rubbed you the wrong way because you're not used to being proactive with your money? Beats me.
It is what it is. And I stated it was a consumer's right. But it is what it is. Threatening to withhold financial support unless they make changes you have requested...you're extorting changes out of them. If calling it what it is bothers you so much, nothing I can do about that...
I doesn't bother me if you're wrong(and we both know human beings both you and I can be wrong but we'll just have to agree to disagree). It's called supply and demand. Extortion is a sinister application of gathering something out of the ordinary from a pressured party like money, favors etc. I think you should revisit your thought process on this.
Let me wheel about and bring in the U.S.S. Whambulance.
Half the grups complain FAW is OP, half say it is ineffective and its just to puff DPS parsers.
You know why FEDs use FAW? Because outside of regular firing its our only real choice, BO kills your power level too much for one target and one shot. CRF if you blow one person up and its not run out you can switch to a new target.....
FAW is a cruisers offensive power of choice. I will not run FAW or BO, if you dont run CRF or CSV. See how that fight pans out in the long run.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'll say one last thing on this particular side topic, well - it's a question. It's a rhetorical question, mind you. You don't have to answer - but you can answer if you please. You could post a recipe for fudge brownies if you like...but anyway...
Um, why on Earth do you think that would matter to me in the least?
Let me wheel about and bring in the U.S.S. Whambulance.
Half the grups complain FAW is OP, half say it is ineffective and its just to puff DPS parsers.
You know why FEDs use FAW? Because outside of regular firing its our only real choice, BO kills your power level too much for one target and one shot. CRF if you blow one person up and its not run out you can switch to a new target.....
FAW is a cruisers offensive power of choice. I will not run FAW or BO, if you dont run CRF or CSV. See how that fight pans out in the long run.
Exactly. The one-trick pony setups have a huge impact on the game and we keep seeing a common trend in the pvp forum; Everybody's grasping on straws to suggest something better yet nobody can seem to agree on what is better.
Emotionally people feel an indifference for PVP revitalization because few devs offer a light at the end of the tunnel. If it weren't for some conscientious devs like tacofangs, the environment in this thread would be much more grave and tenuously pointed.
I'll say one last thing on this particular side topic, well - it's a question. It's a rhetorical question, mind you. You don't have to answer - but you can answer if you please. You could post a recipe for fudge brownies if you like...but anyway...
Um, why on Earth do you think that would matter to me in the least?
I might hire you to count my money. I'd be a fool to let you spend it. It's up to you to be a good person. Treat it as a reminder whether you care or not.
id just like to point out that THIS is what star trek combat looks like. he enterprise? it was basic useing 'FAW' durring that fight, how many shots was it fireing at once? was it 80 per cycle like cruisers do in game now? or was it a single shot at a time?
how about those cannons, were they fireing 12 shots in a burst, or 4?
conclusion: the problems with disco balls and the spammy walls of fire and all the slow downs it causes to mid range and lower machine are solved if they actually made STO look like trek.
Exactly. The one-trick pony setups have a huge impact on the game and we keep seeing a common trend in the pvp forum; Everybody's grasping on straws to suggest something better yet nobody can seem to agree on what is better.
Emotionally people feel an indifference for PVP revitalization because few devs offer a light at the end of the tunnel. If it weren't for some conscientious devs like tacofangs, the environment in this thread would be much more grave and tenuously pointed.
Exactly. But it isnt exactly a one trick pony for cruisers. i Have one, just one faw power set as a boff power. i cannot "spam" it, unlike people who "have" to have CRF1-3.
Though i have to admit it is alot of fun playing "wounded" in ker'rat with those new tbr doffs that pull and BO. A couple of BoPs swoop in an POP they go . If i can survive a borg uber torp your little precious alpha wont stop me either.
Like little flies more of a pest than a threat.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
id just like to point out that THIS is what star trek combat looks like. he enterprise? it was basic useing 'FAW' durring that fight, how many shots was it fireing at once? was it 80 per cycle like cruisers do in game now? or was it a single shot at a time?
how about those cannons, were they fireing 12 shots in a burst, or 4?
conclusion: the problems with disco balls and the spammy walls of fire and all the slow downs it causes to mid range and lower machine are solved if they actually made STO look like trek.
Exactly. But it isnt exactly a one trick pony for cruisers. i Have one, just one faw power set as a boff power. i cannot "spam" it, unlike people who "have" to have CRF1-3.
Though i have to admit it is alot of fun playing "wounded" in ker'rat with those new tbr doffs that pull and BO. A couple of BoPs swoop in an POP they go . If i can survive a borg uber torp your little precious alpha wont stop me either.
Like little flies more of a pest than a threat.
Admittedly I don't cruiser too much. Good point. That wounded tactic is delightfully drawing. A few other posters have chatted about similar. I'm certain that most players prefer tactics which we don't have too much of currently. Nothing feels better in a game where you forge, design and employ a working tactic. Less cracker jack, more fire under the hood, please
id just like to point out that THIS is what star trek combat looks like. he enterprise? it was basic useing 'FAW' durring that fight, how many shots was it fireing at once? was it 80 per cycle like cruisers do in game now? or was it a single shot at a time?
how about those cannons, were they fireing 12 shots in a burst, or 4?
conclusion: the problems with disco balls and the spammy walls of fire and all the slow downs it causes to mid range and lower machine are solved if they actually made STO look like trek.
But in the end, it's not just offensive "spam" - it's "defensive" spam as well. Everything...is at a much faster pace than in Trek. We do things every 3 minutes that they might do once every 5-10 years if that.
It's an old thing, though - no? The discussion, eh? Somebody brings it up every now and again, folks chime in on it again, and it pretty much plays out the same each time.
Heck, I lost track of the jokes I've made about folks carrying their magic lirpa, wearing their flowing robes, and casting magic spells as they ride their star mounts through the astrometric forest...
...heh, they gave us Romulans - making it even easier to make space elves.
In the end, though...they made a MMO - not a Trek Sim. How many folks would actually play a Trek Sim instead? Think about how much would have to be changed in the game?
We all know this battle but I don't think a lot of people remember how beautiful the actual weaponry looks when firing. All the shots are more paced, strong and powerful..
Compare that to 2 escorts fighting 1on1.. Beautiful gameplay, I'd argue it is a strong selling point all within its own right. It creates player loyalty and the horizontal expansion of weapons are not interrupted by memory issues.
We keep getting hung up on obvious garbage items given to us in the past. Nit picking over what a deflector or a console etc does is not as important as saying to oneself, "Look I'm a paying customer and what we want is something memorable; a battle to remember in PVE as well as PVP. I want to be able to spend the next week talking to my friends about how epic space combat is in STO."
It's good for the game, good for paying customers and keeps paying customers coming back. You can't ask for anything more reciprocal than that.
Kinda hard to "dogfight" when there is tif,gw,tractormines, warp plasma, theta, insertmorecraphere all over the place.
Your teams do it too Zelda, so what do you want us to do, ya know? Its like youre asking for YOU to dogfight against completely disabled targets.
It would be a different story if everyone ran clean, but you know as well as I do that its "win 15-0 roflstomp at all costs" in every match.
The last three matches I played were complete and total cheesespam fests, and to be honest, thats the kinda thing that makes me stop queuing for the day. Maybe tomorrow, but today im done.
I ask you this: Where is the fun when youre double subnuked, engine disabled, Tykens, tractored, plasmaed, and tifed all at the same time. APO already on CD, doublesubbed so sci team is already burned up. Whats the fun in sitting in a completely helpless immobile coffin just waiting to die?
It's not fun, which is why I don't pvp anymore. PVP isn't a money maker for Cryptic, so it get's little attention. I agree with you 100%. Game's no fun when you sit there completely helpless.
It's not fun, which is why I don't pvp anymore. PVP isn't a money maker for Cryptic, so it get's little attention. I agree with you 100%. Game's no fun when you sit there completely helpless.
Similar here. I could PVP.. I could min/max it up like I used to years ago. There's a goldfish syndrome about PVP now. You end up feeling like one of the many unassuming fish of unremarkable color swimming in a tank that caretakers seem to have forgotten about.
Regardless of the endless examples of why one would feel jaded about PVP in general, I still think that even head-strong devs like Geko can turn a new leaf. Seldom is the case that a human being is beyond reason. They just got to find the will to do something better and I guess in the back of my mind I find it's still possible, even if I myself have felt so slighted over the last 3 years.
Like it's been said, slowing down combat would mean a world of difference for this game. Gravity wells can take on a new identity if they wanted. They could slow down it's progress of effect, elongate the effect to be an easy to identify space hazard, weapons can behave more like in canon depictions. Everything can be much more epic, they just have to correlate the benefits into how to capture money.
Meh, good dog fighting ended a long time ago. The downfall started w/TB pets imo (at least for Raiders) and Fleet shields were the death nail. It's been nothing short of chasing (grinding and/or paying) power creep since.
OT, It's kinda head scratching to think of how different the meta game is when considering base ships w/white gear, no rep, and no or white only doffs, no uni consoles, etc and how it changes w/high end ships, multi bonused boosted gear, doffs, rep, etc are considered.
That sounds like it would be interesting. PvP leagues that only allow white gear, no doffs, no captain abilities, and no boffs. You get just the raw hardware and your power transferring commands to keep you alive.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
Simple, people are inherently lazy. Given the choice between skill and cheese, they will choose cheese every single time. Well, most will anyway. In any given game, hardcore gamers make a very small fraction of the population, and these hardcore gamers are the ones who are more concerned with their skill-matrix, 'pure' fighting, etc, etc. The majority of other gamers will be satisfied doing other things, and when/if they pvp, they won't hesitate to throw the kitchen sink if they have to. Can't really blame them either, it's natural to try and gain maximum benefit out of minimum effort. It's no secret that cryptic prioritizes catering to the kitchen-sink throwers.
So perhaps, it's time to realize that 1v1s as they used to, exist no more. Outside of pre-arranged premade matches with pre-agreed upon rules, it is currently far easier to adopt to whatever is thrown at your face than to go around raging like a lunatic because other people do not see the same beauty that you do. It is a sad day for us, no doubt, but things change and we have to accept that. Unless, somebody is blatantly using glitch/bugs. In which case we again blame craptic and rage forums.
what else is a cruiser soposed to use ? beside's Bfaw
Harsh Language ?
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
what else is a cruiser soposed to use ? beside's Bfaw
Harsh Language ?
well, i mostly run cruisers and honestly, I prefer single target destruction over FAW boating...so usually on my avenger I stack apb for pve, and either the same or apd for kerrat. sure, since I don't faw, I don't spit huge dps numbers, but i don't really care, with a 19.7% crit rate and apb/apd stacked a full beam broadside or cannon fusillade kills very quickly.
To the OP's point though, I do love a good DHC dogfight in my steamrunner, it's a lot of fun, especially with no cheese involved. i would rather lose to a good pilot in a clean match than be cheesed to death.
Sad to say but yes, when you target someone now and shoot they become invisable every now and then and thats not fun for dogfights, so i went to the way of the vape, if i dont kill in 5s i run and try again, its how it needs to be done now
To be honest, this seems to be an overlooked problem for dogfighters too. In some battles it is simply impossible to keep on target for more than a few seconds on end, and you'll be retargetting from random carrier pets about 3 times in a 15 second attack run. It's really rather annoying, frankly. I know I think so and consequently pick the shield heal proc over the confuse proc, but it seems most people don't feel quite the same way.
Then again, I don't use any cheese consoles or the like either, even when the opponent does, thinking I'll start cleaning up the random queues the only way I can influence: with my own ships. So far, it's not very effective, but maybe one day it'll catch on.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
With the advent of super-optimized vaping setups, and Spacebar circlejerk FAW setups. There is less need to learn how to fly an Escort, and that is sad.
Believe me, flying a specialized vaper with the timings required for premade matches it will only do you good in the long run. Or does experience and practice not transfer over when changing ships/playstyle?
Nobody decides whats right to do in a 1v1. If kirk thinks hes going to beat the tac in a engi dreadnaught then let him, who is anyone else to judge?
For some reason people think that 1v1 in bug is the only legit 1v1, which is weird when they get incinerated by a tvaro, suddenly they get banged up and shocked, they crawl back into that assumption even further because they are scared of anthing else.
for what its worth, ive probalbly done 1v1s more then 99% of the players here, and i can tell you that 1v1 bugfights are 90% number vs number games, a little bit of steering for maximum dhc coverage, the rest is proper timings and stack it all up at the exact right time.
There isnt as much skill involved as people might think, building a proper build and have maxed out gear and u completed 90%
You should try War Thunder at least there is some real aiming involved, hehe.
Comments
Sorry you had my interest until that bit. Players are angry that the game acts too much with corporate ambitions that work against their PVP interests and aren't built after what they want to spend money on and yet you think it's extortion to withdraw that funding because the supply doesn't fit the demand.
Well you might as well cut a hole into your pocket and put your life savings in it if you don't care about how you spend your money.
Don't get angry when somebody who knows how to organize money makes a pragmatic suggestion. Maybe it rubbed you the wrong way because you're not used to being proactive with your money? Beats me.
Star Trek: Nemesis (4/8) Movie CLIP - Teaming Up With the Romulans (2002) HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTPdWYo9zhQ
Deep Space Nine - The Dominion war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxdsaRTQug0
Star Trek Battle Scenes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY_69oCDPYo
STAR TREK ENTERPRISE KLINGONS BATTLES v2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HqwqHaiaLA
One can search and search...
It's funny, even JJ didn't do it like STO does...
Nero's fire everything? Pales in comparison, eh? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXy_DO6IZOA
I doesn't bother me if you're wrong(and we both know human beings both you and I can be wrong but we'll just have to agree to disagree). It's called supply and demand. Extortion is a sinister application of gathering something out of the ordinary from a pressured party like money, favors etc. I think you should revisit your thought process on this.
I was being facetious since exaggeration seems to be the continued theme of this discussion you've offered.
Now you're just being unreasonable. I thought more highly of you prior to this.
Half the grups complain FAW is OP, half say it is ineffective and its just to puff DPS parsers.
You know why FEDs use FAW? Because outside of regular firing its our only real choice, BO kills your power level too much for one target and one shot. CRF if you blow one person up and its not run out you can switch to a new target.....
FAW is a cruisers offensive power of choice. I will not run FAW or BO, if you dont run CRF or CSV. See how that fight pans out in the long run.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'll say one last thing on this particular side topic, well - it's a question. It's a rhetorical question, mind you. You don't have to answer - but you can answer if you please. You could post a recipe for fudge brownies if you like...but anyway...
Um, why on Earth do you think that would matter to me in the least?
It's FotM...like every other FotM.
Exactly. The one-trick pony setups have a huge impact on the game and we keep seeing a common trend in the pvp forum; Everybody's grasping on straws to suggest something better yet nobody can seem to agree on what is better.
Emotionally people feel an indifference for PVP revitalization because few devs offer a light at the end of the tunnel. If it weren't for some conscientious devs like tacofangs, the environment in this thread would be much more grave and tenuously pointed.
I might hire you to count my money. I'd be a fool to let you spend it. It's up to you to be a good person. Treat it as a reminder whether you care or not.
id just like to point out that THIS is what star trek combat looks like. he enterprise? it was basic useing 'FAW' durring that fight, how many shots was it fireing at once? was it 80 per cycle like cruisers do in game now? or was it a single shot at a time?
how about those cannons, were they fireing 12 shots in a burst, or 4?
conclusion: the problems with disco balls and the spammy walls of fire and all the slow downs it causes to mid range and lower machine are solved if they actually made STO look like trek.
Exactly. But it isnt exactly a one trick pony for cruisers. i Have one, just one faw power set as a boff power. i cannot "spam" it, unlike people who "have" to have CRF1-3.
Though i have to admit it is alot of fun playing "wounded" in ker'rat with those new tbr doffs that pull and BO. A couple of BoPs swoop in an POP they go
Like little flies more of a pest than a threat.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Amen DDIS, AMEN
Admittedly I don't cruiser too much. Good point. That wounded tactic is delightfully drawing. A few other posters have chatted about similar. I'm certain that most players prefer tactics which we don't have too much of currently. Nothing feels better in a game where you forge, design and employ a working tactic. Less cracker jack, more fire under the hood, please
But in the end, it's not just offensive "spam" - it's "defensive" spam as well. Everything...is at a much faster pace than in Trek. We do things every 3 minutes that they might do once every 5-10 years if that.
It's an old thing, though - no? The discussion, eh? Somebody brings it up every now and again, folks chime in on it again, and it pretty much plays out the same each time.
Heck, I lost track of the jokes I've made about folks carrying their magic lirpa, wearing their flowing robes, and casting magic spells as they ride their star mounts through the astrometric forest...
...heh, they gave us Romulans - making it even easier to make space elves.
In the end, though...they made a MMO - not a Trek Sim. How many folks would actually play a Trek Sim instead? Think about how much would have to be changed in the game?
http://youtu.be/vPzJSBHG4pI
We all know this battle but I don't think a lot of people remember how beautiful the actual weaponry looks when firing. All the shots are more paced, strong and powerful..
Compare that to 2 escorts fighting 1on1.. Beautiful gameplay, I'd argue it is a strong selling point all within its own right. It creates player loyalty and the horizontal expansion of weapons are not interrupted by memory issues.
We keep getting hung up on obvious garbage items given to us in the past. Nit picking over what a deflector or a console etc does is not as important as saying to oneself, "Look I'm a paying customer and what we want is something memorable; a battle to remember in PVE as well as PVP. I want to be able to spend the next week talking to my friends about how epic space combat is in STO."
It's good for the game, good for paying customers and keeps paying customers coming back. You can't ask for anything more reciprocal than that.
It's not fun, which is why I don't pvp anymore. PVP isn't a money maker for Cryptic, so it get's little attention. I agree with you 100%. Game's no fun when you sit there completely helpless.
Similar here. I could PVP.. I could min/max it up like I used to years ago. There's a goldfish syndrome about PVP now. You end up feeling like one of the many unassuming fish of unremarkable color swimming in a tank that caretakers seem to have forgotten about.
Regardless of the endless examples of why one would feel jaded about PVP in general, I still think that even head-strong devs like Geko can turn a new leaf. Seldom is the case that a human being is beyond reason. They just got to find the will to do something better and I guess in the back of my mind I find it's still possible, even if I myself have felt so slighted over the last 3 years.
Like it's been said, slowing down combat would mean a world of difference for this game. Gravity wells can take on a new identity if they wanted. They could slow down it's progress of effect, elongate the effect to be an easy to identify space hazard, weapons can behave more like in canon depictions. Everything can be much more epic, they just have to correlate the benefits into how to capture money.
Not enough players doing that.
That sounds like it would be interesting. PvP leagues that only allow white gear, no doffs, no captain abilities, and no boffs. You get just the raw hardware and your power transferring commands to keep you alive.
So perhaps, it's time to realize that 1v1s as they used to, exist no more. Outside of pre-arranged premade matches with pre-agreed upon rules, it is currently far easier to adopt to whatever is thrown at your face than to go around raging like a lunatic because other people do not see the same beauty that you do. It is a sad day for us, no doubt, but things change and we have to accept that. Unless, somebody is blatantly using glitch/bugs. In which case we again blame craptic and rage forums.
Elite Defense Stovokor
Elite Defense Stovokor
Harsh Language ?
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
For PvP (since we're in that area of the forums) or for PvE?
/10 char
Elite Defense Stovokor
well, i mostly run cruisers and honestly, I prefer single target destruction over FAW boating...so usually on my avenger I stack apb for pve, and either the same or apd for kerrat. sure, since I don't faw, I don't spit huge dps numbers, but i don't really care, with a 19.7% crit rate and apb/apd stacked a full beam broadside or cannon fusillade kills very quickly.
To the OP's point though, I do love a good DHC dogfight in my steamrunner, it's a lot of fun, especially with no cheese involved. i would rather lose to a good pilot in a clean match than be cheesed to death.
Derrick - Fed Eng
To be honest, this seems to be an overlooked problem for dogfighters too. In some battles it is simply impossible to keep on target for more than a few seconds on end, and you'll be retargetting from random carrier pets about 3 times in a 15 second attack run. It's really rather annoying, frankly. I know I think so and consequently pick the shield heal proc over the confuse proc, but it seems most people don't feel quite the same way.
Then again, I don't use any cheese consoles or the like either, even when the opponent does, thinking I'll start cleaning up the random queues the only way I can influence: with my own ships. So far, it's not very effective, but maybe one day it'll catch on.
Oh no, he need's to come and try this
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Leave my Reman tac out of this discussion please. :P
i bet even talon jonas can beat him hahaha.
Believe me, flying a specialized vaper with the timings required for premade matches it will only do you good in the long run. Or does experience and practice not transfer over when changing ships/playstyle?
Nobody decides whats right to do in a 1v1. If kirk thinks hes going to beat the tac in a engi dreadnaught then let him, who is anyone else to judge?
For some reason people think that 1v1 in bug is the only legit 1v1, which is weird when they get incinerated by a tvaro, suddenly they get banged up and shocked, they crawl back into that assumption even further because they are scared of anthing else.
for what its worth, ive probalbly done 1v1s more then 99% of the players here, and i can tell you that 1v1 bugfights are 90% number vs number games, a little bit of steering for maximum dhc coverage, the rest is proper timings and stack it all up at the exact right time.
There isnt as much skill involved as people might think, building a proper build and have maxed out gear and u completed 90%
You should try War Thunder at least there is some real aiming involved, hehe.