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Is the dogfighting is dead ?
nebulgamnezar
Member Posts: 152 Arc User
Again all we see is FAW if not all rep thing or console that have no sense in that game . Personaly the only place i can have fun is in premade match because the ppl are skilled . but try play in premade all the day !
AND
THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
This is the LAST game i will play where the DEVs dont play their game. Im waiting for Star Cityzen ,that game will be epic and its skill based. In Star Cityzen there is no stupid console, no stupid reputation power and no broken FAW. Plus the DEVs will play their game they make !!!!!
AND
borticuscryptic wrote: »Guys, I didn't give you a peek beneath the FAW hood in order to make a point for rebuilding or destroying it.
Fire-at-Will is an iconic functionality of Phaser-type beam weapons in Star Trek, and we will do whatever is in our power as Designers to keep it in-game and functioning in a way that looks as cool and IP as it did in the shows/movies.
It's true that we have had repeated issues with its inheritance of weapon enhancements because of its data structure. But that doesn't mean that we have to reinvent the wheel. And we honestly don't have time to consider it, anyway.
THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
This is the LAST game i will play where the DEVs dont play their game. Im waiting for Star Cityzen ,that game will be epic and its skill based. In Star Cityzen there is no stupid console, no stupid reputation power and no broken FAW. Plus the DEVs will play their game they make !!!!!
[System] Link has been on active duty for 415 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
Post edited by nebulgamnezar on
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Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Maybe you should try Here. :cool:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
If they ever RvB the queues, they might want to consider adding a Small Craft Queue, eh?
Your teams do it too Zelda, so what do you want us to do, ya know? Its like youre asking for YOU to dogfight against completely disabled targets.
It would be a different story if everyone ran clean, but you know as well as I do that its "win 15-0 roflstomp at all costs" in every match.
The last three matches I played were complete and total cheesespam fests, and to be honest, thats the kinda thing that makes me stop queuing for the day. Maybe tomorrow, but today im done.
I ask you this: Where is the fun when youre double subnuked, engine disabled, Tykens, tractored, plasmaed, and tifed all at the same time. APO already on CD, doublesubbed so sci team is already burned up. Whats the fun in sitting in a completely helpless immobile coffin just waiting to die?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Dogfighting yes, no capitols ships = FAIL
With the advent of super-optimized vaping setups, and Spacebar circlejerk FAW setups. There is less need to learn how to fly an Escort, and that is sad.
You want a private against us with heavy rules? Let me know, we'll set it up.
As far as I know, we're one of the few teams that will play others with NoBS3 rules.
All the **** I've purchased for my ships has been done in response to what other teams run.
We had one TIF on a recluse (lol), you had one too on a Voth Palisade sci vessel.
You didn't lose because of that console, but because you didn't coordinate any of your strikes.
I wasnt even specifically talking about that match. I am saying Z is on here talking about stuff you guys do too.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The Dominion War had a bunch of small craft dogfights...the bigger ships, not so much - faster to the boom than the usual Star Trek fare, but not the strapped to the seat rolling the cockpit stuff that comes to mind when somebody says dogfighting.
Even the stuff in Shattered Mirror between the Defiant and the mini-BoPs - it way slower than what we've got in STO where Escorts/etc zip about faster than Small Craft can.
Besides, did you see the size of those BoPs in relation to the Defiant?
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/defiant-problems.htm
But yeah, still - that's not what I would call dogfighting in STO - watching a couple of Escortjocks going at it can be a nauseating affair requiring near overdose levels of Dramamine not to puke as they go at it. For those that can handle the visual and like that sort of thing, it must be amazing to watch or participate in...
None of our teams run any of the FAW setups that he was referring to in his initial post.
Not the point I was going for. He mentioned dogfighting being dead. Thats not the fault of FAW so much as the sheer amount of control/disable spam out there.
Pretty hard to dogfight when one or both sides cant even move freely most of the time.
So from where I stand the fault lies less with bfaw as it does with the sheer amount of TRIBBLE people use out there
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
and its the same thing in kerat all fed use faw lol
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
This is precisely why I've suggested so many times to slow down everything from an administrative standpoint. It looks more like a rave scene than it does PVP sometimes. People don't even have time to contemplate their next move at times when a forest of a2b/faw swallows the player up.
I just don't see the harm in having rates of fire revisited as well as healing mechanics/hull/shield/etc. There's a lot that can be done to give the player more of that anticipatory strategy every player wants to feel in space without sacrificing matches into longer play times.
Also brings me back to the point in mind where beams were given a kansas city shuffle for their 'fix' by funneling players into chasing after these boring one trick pony configurations. This is still the worst thing that could have happened for beam utilization and I think everybody feels it now more than ever.
So if these points of reference haven't roosted in the minds of devs. I guess one could ask, how many players does it take to TRIBBLE in a brighter light bulb?
Yeah, it's kind of important for that to be defined - cause we're all going to have different sorts of views on it.
I've definitely seen fewer and fewer "Escorts"...Cruisers, Carriers, Sci Vessels, and Warbirds-out-the-wahzoo...
Heck, I've seen more Palisades dropping Photonics and Nimbus than I've seen JHAS lately...
Why is Jerry's TRIBBLE okay but Tom's TRIBBLE bad?
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
People get stuck in those kinds of mindsets too often. For once, I'd like a battle to feel like it did by watching an episode of ST. Volleys of fire were much more paced but still impacting. It'd completely revitalize the game if they took a clue from just about any given episode. Dogfights would be a hell of a lot more interesting.
Dogfights would be pretty much non-existent.
The thing about battles in ST is...they were scripted. They weren't real. So outside of trying to put together a scripted battle, you can't get that.
Ships blew up not when they would have, but rather they blew up when they were written to blow up. Hero ships were invincible until the plot required them not to be.
Now, if you were talking about things playing out more mechanically like Trek did - putting aside the plot armor, plot weapons, and plot in general - where folks could play out fights to see where they might have gone without writer intervention...yeah, that could be cool.
But again, outside of small craft - dogfights would be pretty much non-existent.
Because if you made it more like Trek...
PvE content would be separated based on ship types, there wouldn't be "endgame" ships as such - ships would be provided some form of internal scoring and matches would be determined by those points...along the lines of what you see in another game...where something like this might look familiar for point values:
Yes, they went with trying to appease the "Captain" in all of us by equating the Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid...but it was epic /facepalm which creates a core flaw in the game. Oh, no doubt for the casual player - it's awesome - for that Star Trek fan that calls support if they need to turn the computer back on - it's brilliant - it's almost perfect, no?
For others...well, not that I can speak for them - I haven't polled each and every one...but imho...yeah, the game could have totally gone a different way...
STO's basically you can play TNG/VOY with the Defiant or DS9 with a Galaxy/Intrepid (yeah, the Intrepid is a Cruiser)...so it's never going to be ST-like in that sense...
I'd appreciate it if you paid me the intellectual courtesy of knowing that shows were written by writers. If you have to remind somebody that shows were written by writers, that's probably a conversation you don't want to be involved in.
Of course I'm talking about mechanics. That's why I mentioned as much a couple posts ago.
Now, I don't expect anybody to be a mental reservoir of episode knowledge but there were plenty of dogfight-style scenes in the episodes spanned from TNG on into DS9 (some more shuttle-style craft action like you were mentioning via voyager).
Honestly I have no idea what you mean by "separated by ship types." I don't think it's very productive to go down the semantic rabbit hole of "dog fight" as what I was mentioning was revitalizing the game in order to return that fun everybody's seeking on the back of their milk cartoons like a missing ad.
If we're talking escorts like it was mentioned before, then yes. That's why I mentioned what I mentioned from DDIS.
1) PVP should not feel like a rave scene from the 1990's with a jungle of a2b/faw.
2) Players deserve a reasonable time of reflection when mitigating the circumstances of a scuffle. Nobody but the winner think insta-killing a target is awesome unless they're deluded.
3) Gimmick fixes are a lot of what we see when issues are presented. Like marion and the BO doff for beam use. One trick pony setups. No real rounded availability at all.
So I assert again.. Revisiting rate of fire/hull/healing/shields/etc on a rudimentary level alone would do a world of wonder for this game. And the joke? How many players does it take to TRIBBLE in a brighter light bulb? All aimed at when does a developer with the ability to see this as well takes note? With all of us chirping?.., I could only cringe in thought as I seem to be one of the few from a prior thread about cannons/beams who clued in on this and gets it.
OT, It's kinda head scratching to think of how different the meta game is when considering base ships w/white gear, no rep, and no or white only doffs, no uni consoles, etc and how it changes w/high end ships, multi bonused boosted gear, doffs, rep, etc are considered.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
True words, friend. Reminds me of a tree. It's so top heavy I'm shocked it hasn't already fallen over onto its trunk. Aspects like dog fighting are lost when there's no mind for horizontal expansion. Even a home owner knows when a tree needs trimming in order for it to grow correctly for the most part.
In the end, though - there's a pseudo simple solution that would rectify some of that...
Folks want more dogfighting escort fights...?
Create a league. Get folks to participate. If enough folks do, then...tada...perhaps the idea had merit and support. If not...well, good thing Cryptic didn't allow a small group of players to force their preferred playstyle on everybody else...
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Sad to say but yes, when you target someone now and shoot they become invisable every now and then and thats not fun for dogfights, so i went to the way of the vape, if i dont kill in 5s i run and try again, its how it needs to be done now
yep
I spent 3 years in grassroots activities. Raised $336,000 in 1.5 years while I lived in DC and from all that experience the one thing that gleaned true as a constant was that when people are forced into organizing, it's not over any one good or a bad idea. It's all built from the results of bad governing.
Players are more interested in having fun than organizing to prove a point.
One thing they can do however is vow $0 until they're more receptive to feedback. It's about the only thing a player can do without the tireless efforts of grassroots.
Never belonged to any clubs, social groups, community things, participated with others in shared hobbies, played sports, etc, etc, etc?
Common interests...
Bad governing? Lol...really? Play the victim much? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA
been one to argue with your math just that pseudo-tactic you mentioned. Makes sense with what you just mentioned about never being proactive about anything so it's not about victimization. Obviously it's about money with this game.
It's a business. Obviously it is about money. They have to pay their bills just like anybody else. They need to make a profit above and beyond covering their expenses, because they also need to invest in the future as well as entice others to invest in the future.
The bad governing thing rubbed me the wrong way - while your efforts are commendable, no doubt in the least - this is a game, the suggestion was a simple one of folks sharing a common interest sharing that interest with one another - not about trying to change the world. Your reply was...wow...you know?
It gets into a sense of entitlement, which may be off. But it comes off as such. Cryptic may not have provided exactly what everybody wants - but - they haven't restricted folks entirely from doing certain things. As long as their are private matches, bazinga - there's so much players could do...if they wanted to do so. Blaming Cryptic is kind of sad...there's plenty of thins to blame them for, lol - but blaming them because they haven't invested in something that may not show a return and thus be bad for the game as a whole...while they've still left room for players to take it upon themselves to do such...and the players simply not wanting to put the effort or commitment into it...yeah, just rubs me wrong.
drk's been trying to get folks involved in that Territory thing forever...it's an awesome idea, imho. Personally though, I just can't make that kind of commitment. Even if Cryptic did it, unless they did it in some extremely casual fashion...I wouldn't participate then either.
It's a game. Games will change. Can adapt to those changes, find ways around those changes if the game allows (such as STO does for much), or can walk away from the game...
...suggesting players withhold financial support until Cryptic changes something, well - that's extortion. Sure, it's a consumer's right and as consumers we should not support a product that's not meeting our wants and needs. Business understands that.
In the end, things just don't matter to some folks as much as they do to others - and often, those folks operate under the delusion that it matters as much to those others - that it even matters more...and...yeah, nothing happens.
You need something with sufficient support or it simply will not be noticed...which you're well aware of, but again - this is just a game - if folks like fighting in Escorts, what's the big deal about them putting together a channel for them to find such fights? Getting a thread going on the forums - maybe getting it stickied once it shows some support - etc, etc, etc?
If that can't even be done, if the support for that can't be found...then threatening not to spend any money on the game is an empty threat, no?
C'mon, how many folks that do not already have the Chel Grett are out there shelling out money to get Lobi so they can get both the Chel and the Plesh? There are so many folks that don't think twice about any of the complaints in this thread...that will happily continue spending money. How many folks are going to take a stand and stop? Will they be noticed?
Why not see if there's anywhere near that support first, eh?
edit: Heck, think about the "countless" threads complaining about a certain thing out there, eh? Premades vs. PUGs. Tyler Durden was created. Should have taken off like a rocket, right? Did it? Nope...curious, eh? That's the players...not Cryptic, not the folks that tried to organize TD, etc, etc, etc...that's the players.