You never played the Romulan storyline have you? Otherwise you'd know what I'm talking about.... But you don't know, so I'm gonna let you ponder it for a while....
No I just ended up with 5 alts all level 50 one morning when I woke up. Aren't you tired of incessantly apologizing for crpytic by now? I'm gunna let you ponder it for a while.
No I just ended up with 5 alts all level 50 one morning when I woke up. Aren't you tired of incessantly apologizing for crpytic by now? I'm gunna let you ponder it for a while.
You really haven't played the mission Sleepers even once have you?
You really haven't played the mission Sleepers even once have you?
Oh please all mighty apologist. Please tell me where anything in this thread is proof I haven't played the romulan missions. Feel free to enlighten us with your vast expertise in making excuses. I'd love to hear that one.
Or you could buck up and suck it up and acknowledge that cryptic has a problem with creative leadership when it comes to story boards. I can guarantee one is going to weigh less than the other.
Kortaag, I just want to let you know that I agree with chunks of what you're saying, particularly in regards to the lack of story-driven content in S8, but your overall tone is pretty off-putting, and doesn't really encourage me to engage in a discussion with you about it (or anything else).
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Oh please all mighty apologist. Please tell me where anything in this thread is proof I haven't played the romulan missions. Feel free to enlighten us with your vast expertise in making excuses. I'd love to hear that one.
Or you could buck up and suck it up and acknowledge that cryptic has a problem with creative leadership when it comes to story boards. I can guarantee one is going to weigh less than the other.
If you'd played the mission Sleepers you would know that the Borg tried to assimilate Species 29 (Iconian) technology and FAILED, miserably. The Iconian device did something and made a sphere shaped section of the ship disappear completely as well as scrambling the Borg computers.
If you'd played the mission Sleepers you would know that the Borg tried to assimilate Species 29 (Iconian) technology and FAILED, miserably. The Iconian device did something and made a sphere shaped section of the ship disappear completely as well as scrambling the Borg computers.
And how does this well known knowledge prove I haven't played the romulan missions? For your info they were attempting to test for Omega (FILE CORRUPTED) before everything went up in smoke.
Don't tell me I haven't played the game to bolster your endless list of excuses.
Kortaag, I just want to let you know that I agree with chunks of what you're saying, particularly in regards to the lack of story-driven content in S8, but your overall tone is pretty off-putting, and doesn't really encourage me to engage in a discussion with you about it (or anything else).
You'll just have to forgive me then. I've attempted reasonable discourse in discussion as much as I have finger wagged as of recently. Unfortunately reasonable discourse is only met with off the wall apologists like this one here, mark. You can't reach them with reason so if you're a good hearted fella you'll just have to forgive.
I just wish I felt like I could occasionally talk about things I like about the game, or even disagree with someone, without being called an apologist (or worse).
I like the concept of Season 8 (dinosaurs in space are fun, and I enjoy high-concept weirdness). I by and large like the content (especially the ground battlezone and The Breach).
The story, such as it is, has been pretty disappointing. I, like everybody else, have a personal list of bugs and pet peeves that I'd like to see addressed.
But man, the vitriol around here gets to me from time to time.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Jeff nobody is going to call you an apologist unless you quote a valid concern and tell them they're wrong by using your imagination. That's the only grave sin going on here. People can be reasonable if reasonable dialogue is offered. Mark here didn't want to do that, he was more interested trying to paint pictures and offer loose rationale to explain it all away. Myself and too many others all have a very valid look at season 8 and we don't like what we see. We get annoyed (And I can count more fingers on my hand where people have confronted mark's attitude) when that happens.
If we didn't offer this feedback, what then? Are we to get more of the same? At least Geko who claims he doesn't visit the forums is feeling that response vicariously at least with his last interview but bad writing is simply bad writing. It has to stop somewhere.
And how does this well known knowledge prove I haven't played the romulan missions? For your info they were attempting to test for Omega (FILE CORRUPTED) before everything went up in smoke.
Don't tell me I haven't played the game to bolster your endless list of excuses.
YOU made the claim that the Borg can assimilate "ANYTHING".
I just wish I felt like I could occasionally talk about things I like about the game, or even disagree with someone, without being called an apologist (or worse).
I like the concept of Season 8 (dinosaurs in space are fun, and I enjoy high-concept weirdness). I by and large like the content (especially the ground battlezone and The Breach).
The story, such as it is, has been pretty disappointing. I, like everybody else, have a personal list of bugs and pet peeves that I'd like to see addressed.
But man, the vitriol around here gets to me from time to time.
I know how you feel. And yeah, part of why I've been compiling data is to try and make sense of the story myself. I do feel that they should have given us a bit more info in the introduction to the warzones as to how contact with the Voth was made and how we ended up in the current situation.
However, searching for the data consoles in the ground warzone is immense fun!
.And now you claim that it's widely known public knowledge that they can't? Schizophrenic much?
I'm not responsible for you taking things out of context (like when I said the CONTENT of that episode was well known) or your endless use of excuses for bad writing.
I know how you feel. And yeah, part of why I've been compiling data is to try and make sense of the story myself. I do feel that they should have given us a bit more info in the introduction to the warzones as to how contact with the Voth was made and how we ended up in the current situation.
However, searching for the data consoles in the ground warzone is immense fun!
If you know how I and many others feel when you respond to us by snubbing our valid points responding with a loose ended explanation and inferring we're wrong, then why do you keep doing it? I know you understand this. I've read numerous others handing you this same complaint.
If you agree with us that there needs to be a backbone to their content in the form of a story, just say so. We'll agree with you.
As for the Borg and the Sphere, I can buy into the notion that they just don't know about it.
The Alpha Quadrant species only discovered it because they opened the Iconian gateway, which leads inside the darned thing. We're not sure at this point how the Voth found it.
Until there's evidence otherwise, I'm going to assume that either:
A) The Sphere is somehow cloaked, or located within one of those massive Star Trek nebulae which block sensors, or is otherwise difficult-to-impossible to detect;
or
The Borg simply haven't visited/scanned that sector of space. They're from the Delta Quadrant originally, but they don't occupy the entire thing.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
As for the Borg and the Sphere, I can buy into the notion that they just don't know about it.
The Alpha Quadrant species only discovered it because they opened the Iconian gateway, which leads inside the darned thing. We're not sure at this point how the Voth found it.
Until there's evidence otherwise, I'm going to assume that either:
A) The Sphere is somehow cloaked, or located within one of those massive Star Trek nebulae which block sensors, or is otherwise difficult-to-impossible to detect;
or
The Borg simply haven't visited/scanned that sector of space. They're from the Delta Quadrant originally, but they don't occupy the entire thing.
A wouldn't be such a bad idea actually. Enterprise encountered some massive constructs that were cloaked as well harnessing singularities I think it was? It caused splinters in space time and they even boarded the construct.
I just don't see why the player has to take it upon themselves to make up for the gaping holes though. It's just irresponsible to me.
A wouldn't be such a bad idea actually. Enterprise encountered some massive constructs that were cloaked as well harnessing singularities I think it was? It caused splinters in space time and they even boarded the construct.
I just don't see why the player has to take it upon themselves to make up for the gaping holes though. It's just irresponsible to me.
Heck, the constructs in the Delphic Expanse were even spheres! :P
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
As for the Borg and the Sphere, I can buy into the notion that they just don't know about it.
The Alpha Quadrant species only discovered it because they opened the Iconian gateway, which leads inside the darned thing. We're not sure at this point how the Voth found it.
Until there's evidence otherwise, I'm going to assume that either:
A) The Sphere is somehow cloaked, or located within one of those massive Star Trek nebulae which block sensors, or is otherwise difficult-to-impossible to detect;
or
The Borg simply haven't visited/scanned that sector of space. They're from the Delta Quadrant originally, but they don't occupy the entire thing.
I just thought of something.... I'm not sure how important it is but.... when you first arrive at the Solanae Sphere the one guy you talk to mentions that it's located on the near edge of the Delta quadrant. It's hard to cross-reference a vague comment like that with the known locations of Borg space, but there's a good chance that it's not close to Borg space.
I'm not sure how important it is but.... when you first arrive at the Solanae Sphere the one guy you talk to mentions that it's located on the near edge of the Delta quadrant. It's hard to cross-reference a vague comment like that with the known locations of Borg space, but there's a good chance that it's not close to Borg space.
Yeah, it's hard to say how important that statement is. At the time, I assumed it was simple fan-service to explain that the Sphere isn't near any space that Voyager passed through (since they presumably bypassed this section of the Delta Quadrant during "Endgame"). As you said, it remains vague enough that it could be just about anywhere (near the Galactic Core? Closer to the outer rim? Who knows?).
I'd agree that it's not close to Borg-dominated space, though they're known to send single cubes just about anywhere.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I just don't see why the player has to take it upon themselves to make up for the gaping holes though. It's just irresponsible to me.
Hey, I get that the inconsistencies and "missing" details bug some people.
If I'm reading a book, I don't want to have a WTH? moment. I want details so I understand what is happening in the moment, even if I don't know where the plot is going.
But this here is not a book. In real life, sometimes you're just living in the moment and creating your own rationalizations for why things are happening.
Insofar as this game is able to (very) loosely mimic real life, sometimes it's what's going on in the moment that counts and not the whys and wherefores. I'm okay with supplying my own interpretations every now and then.
Yes, I did have more than one moment where I was thinking, "Okay, I'm here. Now what?" I will probably have more of them.
But then I realized that I was in a sense making my own adventure and exploring the unknown on my own. So I embraced that a little bit. But I get that not everybody sees it that way.
One thing, though, this thread is supposed to be about the Dyson Sphere, not about the Season 8 plot or lack thereof. There are other threads that are discussing the plot, so let's save the plot discussions for those. Thanks!
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Yeah, it's hard to say how important that statement is. At the time, I assumed it was simple fan-service to explain that the Sphere isn't near any space that Voyager passed through (since they presumably bypassed this section of the Delta Quadrant during "Endgame"). As you said, it remains vague enough that it could be just about anywhere (near the Galactic Core? Closer to the outer rim? Who knows?).
I'd agree that it's not close to Borg-dominated space, though they're known to send single cubes just about anywhere.
well, I had a character that hadn't done this yet, so I had them do it. It turns out that the guy actually said "edge of the Delta Quadrant" not "near edge", although he does talk about how you didn't travel as far as Voyager. So it's not the edge on the far side.... But we don't know exactly. Just that it's a lot closer than the Ocampa homeworld.
I just thought of something.... I'm not sure how important it is but.... when you first arrive at the Solanae Sphere the one guy you talk to mentions that it's located on the near edge of the Delta quadrant. It's hard to cross-reference a vague comment like that with the known locations of Borg space, but there's a good chance that it's not close to Borg space.
heheh, they were a lot smaller than a Dyson shell though. :P
I wonder how they actually know that they are on the the edge of the Delta Quadrant and it corresponds to the Dyson Sphere from Season 8 Dev Blog #1. So until we get outside the Sphere, then there is no real confirmation since the Dyson Sphere computer systems could be lying. The Voth are an indicator of the sphere being in the Delta Quadrant, but not completely. The Voth have transwarp drives so they could go anywhere in a couple of months.
I wonder how they actually know that they are on the the edge of the Delta Quadrant and it corresponds to the Dyson Sphere from Season 8 Dev Blog #1. So until we get outside the Sphere, then there is no real confirmation since the Dyson Sphere computer systems could be lying. The Voth are an indicator of the sphere being in the Delta Quadrant, but not completely. The Voth have transwarp drives so they could go anywhere in a couple of months.
that's actually a very good question... now I'm starting to wonder....
I watched the Tier 2 custcene again and I've noticed 2 sentences that are interesting and said all while we see a Voth ship getting attacked by an unknown opponent using plasma beams and torpedoes:
"When the Voth have encountered opposition, we have resisted attempts by others to add us to their own ranks"
[...]
"Fights between evenly matched adversaries tend to be futile"
I may be looking into these a bit too much, but don't you find this to be a funny coincidence to have this explanation with these specific words while talking about the sphere?
I watched the Tier 2 custcene again and I've noticed 2 sentences that are interesting and said all while we see a Voth ship getting attacked by an unknown opponent using plasma beams and torpedoes:
"When the Voth have encountered opposition, we have resisted attempts by others to add us to their own ranks"
[...]
"Fights between evenly matched adversaries tend to be futile"
I may be looking into these a bit too much, but don't you find this to be a funny coincidence to have this explanation with these specific words while talking about the sphere?
coincidence? Well... this is the Delta Quadrant and both races are known to live there.
coincidence? Well... this is the Delta Quadrant and both races are known to live there.
That, I know. I was more referring to your discussion about whether the Borg found the Sphere or not.
And by coincidence, a cutscene hints the Voth met and fought the Borg before the scientist goes back to the sphere subject.
Granted, it could just be a "oh, BTW, Vice Admiral, my people fought space zombies in tiny gray rubix cubes and neither side got the upper hand, now back to the Sphere subject" moment. But who knows...
That, I know. I was more referring to your discussion about whether the Borg found the Sphere or not.
And by coincidence, a cutscene hints the Voth met and fought the Borg before the scientist goes back to the sphere subject.
Granted, it could just be a "oh, BTW, Vice Admiral, my people fought space zombies in tiny gray rubix cubes and neither side got the upper hand, now back to the Sphere subject" moment. But who knows...
Well, one person brought up the subject of "Why aren't we fighting the Borg for the Sphere?"... well... maybe that's why?
My biggest problem isn't with the visuals. Or some of the creative licenses taken with the physics. My problem is the simple geometry associated with this never-really-explained conflict with the Voth. The Alpha quadrant races have one little gateway into the sphere. The Voth have access to the entirety of the exterior surface. The sphere is incomprehensibly huge. They simply have no reason whatsoever to fight us beyond a minor blocking action, with access to all the 99.999+% of the sphere we can't get to. The only reason I can think of is that there is one and only one "door" to the interior, which happens to be right next to the gateway. This is such an incomprehensibly inane design it borders on criminal to have to rely on it. Sure, you can wave it away as "necessary for the enjoyment as a game" but when the end result is sudden and bloodthirsty conflict just for the heck of it with dinosaurs shooting plaid ludicrous beams from their heads, I'm sorry it just doesn't work for me.
Here's to a minor grind for T5 reps, fleet starbase maintenance, and hopes for better Trek in Season 9.
Why do the Voth want us dead? Because the Doctrine says so, because they hate mammals, because the Ministry of Elders claim the Sphere was built by their ancestors and because they don't know our plans with the Omega particle and assume we will use it against them.
Plus, following what happened with Voyager, our mere existence is a contradiction to the Doctrine and they don't tolerate anything contradicting it. And now we're beginning to recruit Voth in our ranks, so the Voth government is even less happy, to say the least.
Basically, it's a big misunderstanding and one side really doesn't want to hear any argument from the other side (who has a talent for encountering xenophobic races and pissing them off by accident), because they're religious bigots.
Well, unless the sphere's surface blocks their phase cloaking, they could just fly in from anywhere. Which does make them fighting us over one relatively insignificant portion of the sphere's interior rather pointless.
'We' in general don't contradict Doctrine. Unless by 'we' you mean humans. Yes, the Voth weren't exactly differentiating between humans and, say, Vulcans in the episode, but the only ones said to share genetic markers with the Voth were humans. And they don't 'hate' mammals. They just view mammals as inferior. If they hated mammals, the scientists from the episode would have never even listened to Chakotay. They'd have just killed him or lobotomized him or something.
So, yes. The idea of the Voth just happening to be in the same part of the sphere that the Jouret gate connects to is foolish. With the sheer size of the bloody thing, the Voth should be able to conduct their research without the joint task force even knowing they're there. Unless what we face is a spearhead of their efforts within the sphere and we're ultimately just causing a minor inconvenience to their expeditionary force, the whole thing is horribly contrived.
I wonder how they actually know that they are on the the edge of the Delta Quadrant and it corresponds to the Dyson Sphere from Season 8 Dev Blog #1. So until we get outside the Sphere, then there is no real confirmation since the Dyson Sphere computer systems could be lying. The Voth are an indicator of the sphere being in the Delta Quadrant, but not completely. The Voth have transwarp drives so they could go anywhere in a couple of months.
that's actually a very good question... now I'm starting to wonder....
If it's true that the Dyson sphere is at the edge of the Delta Quandrant then we can get a rough estimate of how far it's from Earth. WARNING: Math is incoming!!!
Earth is the intersection of the border between the Alpha and Beta quadrants. The Beta/Delta quandrants is 90 degrees spinward ("east") of the Alpha/Beta border. Assuming the Dyson sphere is approximate the same distance from the galaxy center as Earth (27,000 LY). The Dyson Sphere is 38183 LY from Earth.
Comments
No I just ended up with 5 alts all level 50 one morning when I woke up. Aren't you tired of incessantly apologizing for crpytic by now? I'm gunna let you ponder it for a while.
My character Tsin'xing
Oh please all mighty apologist. Please tell me where anything in this thread is proof I haven't played the romulan missions. Feel free to enlighten us with your vast expertise in making excuses. I'd love to hear that one.
Or you could buck up and suck it up and acknowledge that cryptic has a problem with creative leadership when it comes to story boards. I can guarantee one is going to weigh less than the other.
My character Tsin'xing
And how does this well known knowledge prove I haven't played the romulan missions? For your info they were attempting to test for Omega (FILE CORRUPTED) before everything went up in smoke.
Don't tell me I haven't played the game to bolster your endless list of excuses.
You'll just have to forgive me then. I've attempted reasonable discourse in discussion as much as I have finger wagged as of recently. Unfortunately reasonable discourse is only met with off the wall apologists like this one here, mark. You can't reach them with reason so if you're a good hearted fella you'll just have to forgive.
I like the concept of Season 8 (dinosaurs in space are fun, and I enjoy high-concept weirdness). I by and large like the content (especially the ground battlezone and The Breach).
The story, such as it is, has been pretty disappointing. I, like everybody else, have a personal list of bugs and pet peeves that I'd like to see addressed.
But man, the vitriol around here gets to me from time to time.
If we didn't offer this feedback, what then? Are we to get more of the same? At least Geko who claims he doesn't visit the forums is feeling that response vicariously at least with his last interview but bad writing is simply bad writing. It has to stop somewhere.
However, searching for the data consoles in the ground warzone is immense fun!
My character Tsin'xing
And they can, given the time. Don't you know the borg's MO by now?
I'm not responsible for you taking things out of context (like when I said the CONTENT of that episode was well known) or your endless use of excuses for bad writing.
If you know how I and many others feel when you respond to us by snubbing our valid points responding with a loose ended explanation and inferring we're wrong, then why do you keep doing it? I know you understand this. I've read numerous others handing you this same complaint.
If you agree with us that there needs to be a backbone to their content in the form of a story, just say so. We'll agree with you.
The Alpha Quadrant species only discovered it because they opened the Iconian gateway, which leads inside the darned thing. We're not sure at this point how the Voth found it.
Until there's evidence otherwise, I'm going to assume that either:
A) The Sphere is somehow cloaked, or located within one of those massive Star Trek nebulae which block sensors, or is otherwise difficult-to-impossible to detect;
or
A wouldn't be such a bad idea actually. Enterprise encountered some massive constructs that were cloaked as well harnessing singularities I think it was? It caused splinters in space time and they even boarded the construct.
I just don't see why the player has to take it upon themselves to make up for the gaping holes though. It's just irresponsible to me.
Heck, the constructs in the Delphic Expanse were even spheres! :P
My character Tsin'xing
I'd agree that it's not close to Borg-dominated space, though they're known to send single cubes just about anywhere.
Hey, I get that the inconsistencies and "missing" details bug some people.
If I'm reading a book, I don't want to have a WTH? moment. I want details so I understand what is happening in the moment, even if I don't know where the plot is going.
But this here is not a book. In real life, sometimes you're just living in the moment and creating your own rationalizations for why things are happening.
Insofar as this game is able to (very) loosely mimic real life, sometimes it's what's going on in the moment that counts and not the whys and wherefores. I'm okay with supplying my own interpretations every now and then.
Yes, I did have more than one moment where I was thinking, "Okay, I'm here. Now what?" I will probably have more of them.
But then I realized that I was in a sense making my own adventure and exploring the unknown on my own. So I embraced that a little bit. But I get that not everybody sees it that way.
One thing, though, this thread is supposed to be about the Dyson Sphere, not about the Season 8 plot or lack thereof. There are other threads that are discussing the plot, so let's save the plot discussions for those. Thanks!
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My character Tsin'xing
I wonder how they actually know that they are on the the edge of the Delta Quadrant and it corresponds to the Dyson Sphere from Season 8 Dev Blog #1. So until we get outside the Sphere, then there is no real confirmation since the Dyson Sphere computer systems could be lying. The Voth are an indicator of the sphere being in the Delta Quadrant, but not completely. The Voth have transwarp drives so they could go anywhere in a couple of months.
My character Tsin'xing
"When the Voth have encountered opposition, we have resisted attempts by others to add us to their own ranks"
[...]
"Fights between evenly matched adversaries tend to be futile"
I may be looking into these a bit too much, but don't you find this to be a funny coincidence to have this explanation with these specific words while talking about the sphere?
My character Tsin'xing
And by coincidence, a cutscene hints the Voth met and fought the Borg before the scientist goes back to the sphere subject.
Granted, it could just be a "oh, BTW, Vice Admiral, my people fought space zombies in tiny gray rubix cubes and neither side got the upper hand, now back to the Sphere subject" moment. But who knows...
My character Tsin'xing
Here's to a minor grind for T5 reps, fleet starbase maintenance, and hopes for better Trek in Season 9.
Plus, following what happened with Voyager, our mere existence is a contradiction to the Doctrine and they don't tolerate anything contradicting it. And now we're beginning to recruit Voth in our ranks, so the Voth government is even less happy, to say the least.
Basically, it's a big misunderstanding and one side really doesn't want to hear any argument from the other side (who has a talent for encountering xenophobic races and pissing them off by accident), because they're religious bigots.
'We' in general don't contradict Doctrine. Unless by 'we' you mean humans. Yes, the Voth weren't exactly differentiating between humans and, say, Vulcans in the episode, but the only ones said to share genetic markers with the Voth were humans. And they don't 'hate' mammals. They just view mammals as inferior. If they hated mammals, the scientists from the episode would have never even listened to Chakotay. They'd have just killed him or lobotomized him or something.
So, yes. The idea of the Voth just happening to be in the same part of the sphere that the Jouret gate connects to is foolish. With the sheer size of the bloody thing, the Voth should be able to conduct their research without the joint task force even knowing they're there. Unless what we face is a spearhead of their efforts within the sphere and we're ultimately just causing a minor inconvenience to their expeditionary force, the whole thing is horribly contrived.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's enemy action." -- Auric Goldfinger
If it's true that the Dyson sphere is at the edge of the Delta Quandrant then we can get a rough estimate of how far it's from Earth. WARNING: Math is incoming!!!
Earth is the intersection of the border between the Alpha and Beta quadrants. The Beta/Delta quandrants is 90 degrees spinward ("east") of the Alpha/Beta border. Assuming the Dyson sphere is approximate the same distance from the galaxy center as Earth (27,000 LY). The Dyson Sphere is 38183 LY from Earth.