I admit, I've actually suggested what I consider a reasonable, balanced idea for cloaking for all three factions in the past...but of course, we can't have that on the forum, so I don't bother wasting my time or anyone else's time with it anymore. *shrug*
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
How about a Cloaking Device that has 10 charges and costs 50,000 dilithium. Of course, it would be a Battle Cloak. It doesn't take up a console slot and is simply a ship device. The limited use is to show that it can only operate for a certain amount of time before burning out due to it being used on ships that aren't built around a cloaking device like using up too much energy for non-combat purposes like Holodecks, replicators, etc.
How about a Cloaking Device that has 10 charges and costs 50,000 dilithium. Of course, it would be a Battle Cloak. It doesn't take up a console slot and is simply a ship device. The limited use is to show that it can only operate for a certain amount of time before burning out due to it being used on ships that aren't built around a cloaking device like using up too much energy for non-combat purposes like Holodecks, replicators, etc.
I don't necessarily like the numbers but the idea is sound.
Make it a Lobi item with only a couple of charges and chance to fail, and it would line up with Canon where any dodgy merchant (Quark) can illegally obtain one:
In 2370, Quark illegally acquired a small cloaking device that was, as he put it: 'not in the best of condition', but it 'will work for about 15 minutes.' Initially intending to sell it, Quark instead installed it in the central engine core of a Cardassian shuttle, piloted by Natima Lang, to help the ship escape Deep Space 9 undetected. (DS9: "Profit and Loss") http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloaking_device
As long as all standard KDF cloaks can be upgraded to battle cloaks. Otherwise thd idea for only fed ships to have the capability is unbalanced and unfair.
yeah, correct, so no battle cloack for fed, that good with me.
As well KDF Bops will need a slight buff to remove the handicap for having battle cloaks. Maybe a Shield Mod increase.
And Romulans as well will need a slight buff.
that bop need a buff in regard to later game evolution sound perfectly reasonable to me, but i don't feel the same about romulans.
i'd like the universdal console to be just an innate system of those ships... i have the console sleeping in my inventory, a battle cloak can be usefull enugh to spare that slot, but as a standard i dont even know why im wasting a place in my cargo bay
You know what, I say if Feds and for that matter KDF players want battle Cloaks similar to what the Romulans have on their Warbirds then I say let them have it.......at a cost.
I would introduce a Cloak Enhancement console and stick it in the next lockbox.
What the Cloak Enhancement console would do is turn any innate or Console Basic Cloaking Device into a Battle Cloaking Device.
So the bottom line would go something like this:
A Klingon Player that has a vessel with an innate Cloaking Device would have to give up one console slot to upgrade their cloak to a Battle Cloak.
A Fed Player that uses one of the 3 vessels that they have that can Cloak would need to give up a Console slot for their basic Cloak and then a 2nd Console slot for the Cloak Enhancement console so they can have their coveted Battle Cloak and no making either a device slot is not an option.
I am sorry but I think that Cryptic has already cannibalized most if not all of what make the KDF faction unique in STO to keep the heavy Federation player base happy and now the Romulans are next on the menu it seems.
For what it's worth I think that every Cloak should be a battle cloak but the way things were setup in STO that option was just not in the cards and Cryptic felt the need to separate Battle Cloak from a standard cloak and I can live with that.
So to recap:
Give the Federation the ability to use the Battle Cloak like the Romulans, just make sure that it cost them two console slots to do it
I personally think none of the Fed cloaking vessels are suffering for having a cloak console.
The Defiant especially since each incarnation created since its creation has been given additional slots to compensate for the cloaking console.
All of them still have the best of what a cloak is good for, decloak alpha strikes, on top of a platform without handicaps for having cloaks.
I personally think none of the Fed cloaking vessels are suffering for having a cloak console.
The Defiant especially since each incarnation created since its creation has been given additional slots to compensate for the cloaking console.
All of them still have the best of what a cloak is good for, decloak alpha strikes, on top of a platform without handicaps for having cloaks.
True,
Klingon vessels pay for their innate Cloaks in the form of lower hulls and shields.
The Defiant has you stated suffers very little for its cloaking device because each version of it was given an extra console slot that accommodated its cloaking device.
It's all good.
In time the Feds will get their Battle Cloak, the KDF will get its Multi Vector Assault Equivalent and the Romualns will get their Cruiser Commands
For what it's worth I think that every Cloak should be a battle cloak but the way things were setup in STO that option was just not in the cards and Cryptic felt the need to separate Battle Cloak from a standard cloak and I can live with that.
i can live with it too, what i got trouble to is to have a normal cloack take me a console slot on my gal x, especially when it was integrated before season 5.
yes we got a tactical console slot for it, but i would said it about time for a tactical ship to have 3 tact console and for a tier 5 cruiser to have 9 console slot.
yes, we were the only tier 5 cruiser to only have 8 console slot, go figure.
Klingon vessels pay for their innate Cloaks in the form of lower hulls and shields.
I get tired of this falsity KDF preach to validate the victim complex they have.
The two most comparable vessels are the Defiant, and the Qin. Yes the Defiant has a better shield mod, by .07%, but conversely the Qin has 10% more hull than a Defiant. The Qin also has 4 times the crew of the Defiant.
Toss on top of that, the Qin is a free RA option, and the Defiant is C-Store, and the Qin comes out on top. The requirement to sacrifice a console slot is old hat, remnants of the old balance system which has long since been discontinued.
The Federation has three ships with the ability to cloak. The only issue really is, compared to their counterparts, they are forced to be inferior by the console gimmick to do so. With the new fleet consoles, and all the sets; sacrificing a slot for a console with no buffs other than enabling an ability that should be innate, as per the standard for the other factions, is a massive drawback.
I get tired of this falsity KDF preach to validate the victim complex they have.
The two most comparable vessels are the Defiant, and the Qin. Yes the Defiant has a better shield mod, by .07%, but conversely the Qin has 10% more hull than a Defiant. The Qin also has 4 times the crew of the Defiant.
Toss on top of that, the Qin is a free RA option, and the Defiant is C-Store, and the Qin comes out on top. The requirement to sacrifice a console slot is old hat, remnants of the old balance system which has long since been discontinued.
The Federation has three ships with the ability to cloak. The only issue really is, compared to their counterparts, they are forced to be inferior by the console gimmick to do so. With the new fleet consoles, and all the sets; sacrificing a slot for a console with no buffs other than enabling an ability that should be innate, as per the standard for the other factions, is a massive drawback.
You know...I'm trying really hard to make something out of this, but all I keep hearing is "gimme, gimme, gimme!".
You want the acteon, you want a innate cloak, do you perhaps want us to send them on a white freshly painted Bird of Prey while we're at it? :rolleyes:
Also protip: Don't say the Qin comes on top of the Defiant, that's making it really hard for people to take you seriously.
You want the acteon, you want a innate cloak, do you perhaps want us to send them on a white freshly painted Bird of Prey while we're at it?.
I think the only way cryptic would allow that was to toss in a console that gave it enough cargo space to carry two full grown whales. It could be a 3-piece set!
I do agree that the Qin is more inline with the Defiant than the Bop, but who really flies a Qin? I personally do feel that if they don't do the Special console slot like they did warp cores, that the feds should still get the console while the Roms and KDF don't. Their ships were built with cloaks, and the fed side would need to install them separately.
My biggest issue though is that the basic cloak should be battle cloak, regardless of which faction or race... minus those dirty ferengi... If the issue with that is a matter of buff bonus', why not just give the different ship types on the KDF and Romulan ships their own additional innate bonus'? Bops would have the biggest advantage being the faster, yet squishier ships, while Roms get an overall better average bonus because it's their technology, and they developed it more during the decades of canon? Feds would still get the basic version battle cloak (to be canon), the defiant could have a Romulan innate boost, but it would still be a simple fix to this issue that helps keep things balanced.
No doubt if I instead was posting in the Red sections about how KDF needs new C-Store VA ships, how the Devs should make a Fleet Kvort, and other such things, you and those of your mindset would be unconditionally agreeing and patting me on the back; instead of snarky 'gimme gimme gimme' posts.
As for the Defiant/Qin; I have both, I fly both, they preform very similar. The only real differences is the fact that to cloak, my Defiant has to sacrifice a console I could use for something else, and it cost me a chunk of C-points back when I got it. The Qin was free. The innate cloak tips the balance.
This threat isn't even about the Aceton console. I applaud you dragging up something irrelevant to this topic.
Sorry comparing the Fedration to the US to somehow justify them getting integrated cloaks and battlecloak doesn't work.
The current US government is more similar to the Dominion or pre-war Cardassian Union then Federation anyway, the Cardassians went to Bajor "just to help the backward Bajorans" or the Dominion is just "maintaining order", just like the US is just trying to "spread democracy" but it just happens to be in countries with oil and other resources. At least we don't see the Federation do these schemes in the star trek universe, so they are trying to maintain a moral high ground, so no battle cloak for them.
My biggest issue though is that the basic cloak should be battle cloak, regardless of which faction or race... minus those dirty ferengi... If the issue with that is a matter of buff bonus', why not just give the different ship types on the KDF and Romulan ships their own additional innate bonus'? Bops would have the biggest advantage being the faster, yet squishier ships, while Roms get an overall better average bonus because it's their technology, and they developed it more during the decades of canon? Feds would still get the basic version battle cloak (to be canon), the defiant could have a Romulan innate boost, but it would still be a simple fix to this issue that helps keep things balanced.
Canon wise I agree, every seen cloak was a battle cloak and that would make sense. I would have probably expected it like that back in the time when I joined STO, if I ever thought about cloaks and Federation in the same context.
I liked the image the Federation had in Star Trek and frankly I don't want to see the Federation using cloaks extensively and the Avenger is already pushing it. Heck, even half the KDF ships can't cloak.
The issue here are arbitrary mechanics implemented by Cryptic to support their gameplay. Just like science ships being tied to 3/3 layout and innate subsystem targeting and sensor analysis, Cryptic decided the Romulans who invented the cloak to have it as battlecloak all around, the Klingons who got it from the Romulans to have it as regular cloak with the exception of BoPs which pay dearly for that and the Federation - a faction that is not suposed to cloak in the first place has it on a select number of ships as a console. These are the arbitrary mechanics I'm talking about and they have nothing to do with canon expamples, they're implemented because Cryptic decided the gameplay of STO to be like that. And I for one can understand why Cryptic did it.
If the 3 Fed. ships that can use the console get the ability as innate, then all the KDF ships that can cloak should be buffed to Federation stats. It's as simple as that. Although I actually prefer Cryptic's way of handling the issue, call me crazy but I actually like to have a few diferent things between the factions.
No doubt if I instead was posting in the Red sections about how KDF needs new C-Store VA ships, how the Devs should make a Fleet Kvort, and other such things, you and those of your mindset would be unconditionally agreeing and patting me on the back; instead of snarky 'gimme gimme gimme' posts.
No doubt. But you comparing a post in the KDF section about a KDF ship, you know the faction that combined with the Romulans has less T5 end-game ships than the Federation alone, with a post in the Fed. section demanding KDF toys for Feds is just hillarious. Please go on.
As for the Defiant/Qin; I have both, I fly both, they preform very similar. The only real differences is the fact that to cloak, my Defiant has to sacrifice a console I could use for something else, and it cost me a chunk of C-points back when I got it. The Qin was free. The innate cloak tips the balance.
So do I. And I'm having a very difficult time taking you seriously when you constantly keep repeating that the Qin tops the Defiant.
This threat isn't even about the Aceton console. I applaud you dragging up something irrelevant to this topic.
Thanks for the applause, I'll be here the whole evening.
BTW, didn't you post in that acteon thread about how "that exchange needs to happen". So it's on the same topic you see - more Fed. demands about KDF/Romulan stuff.
With the new fleet consoles coming out, the slot sacrificed, especially when laid to compare against other universals, is a hindrance. Either giving up passives or trump cards that your counterparts in the other factions do not. The Defiant is comparable to the Qin, if someone can't fly one or the other well, it's their problem. I do fine in mine. The Gal-X gets one shot with its Alpha, often with a Lance that misses, and is then hosed with its turn rate. A subspace jump will totally void any Alpha it attempts. The Avenger is the only one that feels to par, if not solely due to it being the most recent ship added, early in the '5 fore' standard that has come to pass.
Factor in the demands for BoP buffing and the like, and it's pretty poor. If KDF got all that they cry for in the course of the next year, the Fed Cloak Device will likely be rarely used due to the sacrifice it requires. Perhaps that is what it would take though; however I suspect even if Red got all they pine for, they would still vindictively oppose this notion.
why do you think feds need a battlecloak? The fed ship that have a standard cloak don't even need that imo. I can understand roms and kdf having them but why with the war with the kdf coming to a close would. a fleet of ships under a banner of peace need something that screams out hit and run tactics?
I would argue this:
#1: The Khitomer Accord, the agreement:cool: between Romulans and the Federation that kept the Federation for pursuing a Cloaking Device is dead. It died with the Romulan Government.
#2: IN CANON the Federation has access to the following:
A: The Defiant Cloaking device, which acted as a battle cloak but was traceable by the Romulans.
B: The Cloaking Device seen on the Galaxy X, in an alternate universe, this is the only example of an "Ambush" Cloak seen on screen.
C: The Intangibility Cloak (ST:TNG Episode, The Pegasus), which is in some ways equivalent to the cloak being used by the Voth now. To those of you arguing that explorers don't need cloak, I point you to the episodes in which the Federation used cloaking technology to observe Prime Directive protected species from behind a "Blind." Observation is easier if you aren't seen.
Those two reasons are enough to argue that not only would the Federation, in a time of war, be pursuing the cloak technology, but they would actively be improving on the Pegasus Design.
Ideas to bring the Federation up to Canon Power levels then:
Step:
A: Allow Federation ships of Rear Admiral Upper and above to equip the Ambush Cloak.
This should be a DEVICE, and work as the cloak currently does.
B: Ships that currently have a cloak should be upgraded to using a cloaking console that provides Battle Cloak.
C: Either a project, or a Fleet Ship upgrade should unlock the Intangibility Cloak, which would work as the Battle Cloak, but stop taking damage on cloaking for 5 Sec, and be capable of flying through objects and other ships.
((Moderators: If this is not an appropriate thread please move my reply to the appropriate thread if you can. Thanks))
NO. Romulans were THE ONLY ONES who were EVER supposed to have battle cloak. Let alone feds a cloak. Don't stray too much from the dang movies I mean c'mon. It's ridiculous enough as it is.
Klingons have the Battle cloak to on all thier ships in the 24th C. only the BoP has it is the 23 C.
When It comes to Feds they should have it as it is a Romulan cloak earlier but never the less.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
Klingons have the Battle cloak to on all thier ships in the 24th C. only the BoP has it is the 23 C.
When It comes to Feds they should have it as it is a Romulan cloak earlier but never the less.
The Feds already have a Phase Cloak, but due to diplomacy issues, aren't able to use it. This is why Starfleet ships shouldn't have cloaks. Not because they don't have the technology, but because it is part of who they are. To keep the peace even though it might hurt them in the long run. The only Federation ships that should have cloaks is freighters. Harder for pirates to attack a freighter if its cloaked. That actually might be the reason why we can't find Romulan and Klingon Freighters.
The Feds already have a Phase Cloak, but due to diplomacy issues, aren't able to use it. This is why Starfleet ships shouldn't have cloaks. Not because they don't have the technology, but because it is part of who they are. To keep the peace even though it might hurt them in the long run. The only Federation ships that should have cloaks is freighters. Harder for pirates to attack a freighter if its cloaked. That actually might be the reason why we can't find Romulan and Klingon Freighters.
I'm just going to take the liberty of pointing you back to post 80 on this thread.
It's not a matter of Feds having cloaks because we already do, but with people saying why we shouldn't, it's important to point out that the Federation, in canon, uses them quite often. Even noncanonically, Section 31 would probably have several ships out there with cloaking devices. The Prime Directive alone is the perfect reason for the Federation to be using them.
First of all, for all who screaming about canon FED, when I as a FED command a Monbosh battleship with 2 romulan and 2 borg BOFF, having a Jem'Hadar and a Breen in my away team doing missions (STF,fleet action, Spire battlezone) doing nothing but KILLING enemies by the hundreds there is no more reason to stick to the original 'Strafleet is only peaceful explorers' mantra.
Second, this whole cloak issue could be resolved in a the following way, IMHO:
- romulans has the battle cloak as it is now
- KDF cloaks should be updated to battle cloak as well, by their own design, making a little bit different from the romulan ones somehow
- FED should have a cloak device or console, can be used on any FED ship and only on FED ships, not on lockbox alien ships, BUT it should be a defensive cloak, not an offensive, meaning can be used during combat but instead of giving offense bonuses when decloak, give DEFENSIVE bonuses (more than the +def) lingering after decloaking, so in this manner FED can have a "battle cloak" but having it as a defensive tool maybe it would be acceptable to the 'Starfleet is not a warhost, but explorers' people
It's not a matter of Feds having cloaks because we already do, but with people saying why we shouldn't, it's important to point out that the Federation, in canon, uses them quite often. Even noncanonically, Section 31 would probably have several ships out there with cloaking devices. The Prime Directive alone is the perfect reason for the Federation to be using them.
Alternate Timelines don't count. The Romulans gave permission for the Federation to use a cloaking device on one Starfleet ship not on hundreds or thousands. The Pegasus was using their cloaking device illegally. The problem is that the devs renewed the Treaty of Algeron and without nullifying the treaty in some way such as recognizing the Romulan Republic as the official Romulan government and D'Tan allowing the Federation to use cloaking devices, every Federation Captain that uses a cloak on a Starfleet ship is breaking the treaty.
my thoughts on this are this is the cloaking device on romulean or klingon ships consoles if not then these three ships need to be redone the same way . and a fleet fed battle cloak or interphasic cloak prototype would be interesting but have it have a random chance to do critical damage to ship on activation like happened to pegasus
The treaty of Algeron is still in effect according to the Path of 2409, in which UFP president Okeg clearly states that being a protector of peace that The UFP would honor it commitment to ban all research and further use of cloaking techologies.
The three fed cloakers exist because two of them existed before this proclamation and the last, the avenger, skirts the gray area of being able to use a cloak only if the player already owns one but in itself does not come with cloaking. (Its a lawyers move)
None of the existing fed cloakers suffer for having to use a console as the ships themselves where given space to mount the consoles by having an extra console slot given after the first round of complaints well over a year ago hit the forums.
The treaty of Algeron is still in effect according to the Path of 2409, in which UFP president Okeg clearly states that being a protector of peace that The UFP would honor it commitment to ban all research and further use of cloaking techologies.
The three fed cloakers exist because two of them existed before this proclamation and the last, the avenger, skirts the gray area of being able to use a cloak only if the player already owns one but in itself does not come with cloaking. (Its a lawyers move)
I would think it is safe to say that the Path to 2409 information is now out of date. With the relationship with the new Romulan Republic, and being a massive source of assistance in numerous ways, and the fact that the Avenger was designed to be cloak capable; we can deduce that the Federation likely has a new amendment or expansion of the initial Defiant amendment to the Treaty that it worked out with the Republic. Starfleet provides security aid to the Republic, and they have the lend-lease program for Romulan Captains to use Starfleet Vessels; in return we can surmise Starfleet has been approved to mount cloaking devices on the vessels capable of it in game for dealing with the numerous hostile fronts that exist on the galactic map.
None of the existing fed cloakers suffer for having to use a console as the ships themselves where given space to mount the consoles by having an extra console slot given after the first round of complaints well over a year ago hit the forums.
Again, old standards, and now an outright fallacy. The Defiant and Gal-X have no more consoles slots than their counterparts in all three factions. In the past, they had a different system in place. That system is now history, stop trying to hold these to a standard that no longer exists.
Can someone good with numbers do this for me. Pick 3 KDF and Romulan ships that roughly match up to the 3 Fed ships that cloak. I would like to see what does the other two factions "pay" to have cloak.
Comments
I don't necessarily like the numbers but the idea is sound.
Make it a Lobi item with only a couple of charges and chance to fail, and it would line up with Canon where any dodgy merchant (Quark) can illegally obtain one:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Profit_and_Loss_(episode)
In 2370, Quark illegally acquired a small cloaking device that was, as he put it: 'not in the best of condition', but it 'will work for about 15 minutes.' Initially intending to sell it, Quark instead installed it in the central engine core of a Cardassian shuttle, piloted by Natima Lang, to help the ship escape Deep Space 9 undetected. (DS9: "Profit and Loss")
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cloaking_device
yeah, correct, so no battle cloack for fed, that good with me.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
that bop need a buff in regard to later game evolution sound perfectly reasonable to me, but i don't feel the same about romulans.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
I would introduce a Cloak Enhancement console and stick it in the next lockbox.
What the Cloak Enhancement console would do is turn any innate or Console Basic Cloaking Device into a Battle Cloaking Device.
So the bottom line would go something like this:
A Klingon Player that has a vessel with an innate Cloaking Device would have to give up one console slot to upgrade their cloak to a Battle Cloak.
A Fed Player that uses one of the 3 vessels that they have that can Cloak would need to give up a Console slot for their basic Cloak and then a 2nd Console slot for the Cloak Enhancement console so they can have their coveted Battle Cloak and no making either a device slot is not an option.
I am sorry but I think that Cryptic has already cannibalized most if not all of what make the KDF faction unique in STO to keep the heavy Federation player base happy and now the Romulans are next on the menu it seems.
For what it's worth I think that every Cloak should be a battle cloak but the way things were setup in STO that option was just not in the cards and Cryptic felt the need to separate Battle Cloak from a standard cloak and I can live with that.
So to recap:
Give the Federation the ability to use the Battle Cloak like the Romulans, just make sure that it cost them two console slots to do it
The Defiant especially since each incarnation created since its creation has been given additional slots to compensate for the cloaking console.
All of them still have the best of what a cloak is good for, decloak alpha strikes, on top of a platform without handicaps for having cloaks.
R.I.P
True,
Klingon vessels pay for their innate Cloaks in the form of lower hulls and shields.
The Defiant has you stated suffers very little for its cloaking device because each version of it was given an extra console slot that accommodated its cloaking device.
It's all good.
In time the Feds will get their Battle Cloak, the KDF will get its Multi Vector Assault Equivalent and the Romualns will get their Cruiser Commands
i can live with it too, what i got trouble to is to have a normal cloack take me a console slot on my gal x, especially when it was integrated before season 5.
yes we got a tactical console slot for it, but i would said it about time for a tactical ship to have 3 tact console and for a tier 5 cruiser to have 9 console slot.
yes, we were the only tier 5 cruiser to only have 8 console slot, go figure.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
I get tired of this falsity KDF preach to validate the victim complex they have.
The two most comparable vessels are the Defiant, and the Qin. Yes the Defiant has a better shield mod, by .07%, but conversely the Qin has 10% more hull than a Defiant. The Qin also has 4 times the crew of the Defiant.
Toss on top of that, the Qin is a free RA option, and the Defiant is C-Store, and the Qin comes out on top. The requirement to sacrifice a console slot is old hat, remnants of the old balance system which has long since been discontinued.
The Federation has three ships with the ability to cloak. The only issue really is, compared to their counterparts, they are forced to be inferior by the console gimmick to do so. With the new fleet consoles, and all the sets; sacrificing a slot for a console with no buffs other than enabling an ability that should be innate, as per the standard for the other factions, is a massive drawback.
You know...I'm trying really hard to make something out of this, but all I keep hearing is "gimme, gimme, gimme!".
You want the acteon, you want a innate cloak, do you perhaps want us to send them on a white freshly painted Bird of Prey while we're at it? :rolleyes:
Also protip: Don't say the Qin comes on top of the Defiant, that's making it really hard for people to take you seriously.
I think the only way cryptic would allow that was to toss in a console that gave it enough cargo space to carry two full grown whales. It could be a 3-piece set!
I do agree that the Qin is more inline with the Defiant than the Bop, but who really flies a Qin? I personally do feel that if they don't do the Special console slot like they did warp cores, that the feds should still get the console while the Roms and KDF don't. Their ships were built with cloaks, and the fed side would need to install them separately.
My biggest issue though is that the basic cloak should be battle cloak, regardless of which faction or race... minus those dirty ferengi... If the issue with that is a matter of buff bonus', why not just give the different ship types on the KDF and Romulan ships their own additional innate bonus'? Bops would have the biggest advantage being the faster, yet squishier ships, while Roms get an overall better average bonus because it's their technology, and they developed it more during the decades of canon? Feds would still get the basic version battle cloak (to be canon), the defiant could have a Romulan innate boost, but it would still be a simple fix to this issue that helps keep things balanced.
As for the Defiant/Qin; I have both, I fly both, they preform very similar. The only real differences is the fact that to cloak, my Defiant has to sacrifice a console I could use for something else, and it cost me a chunk of C-points back when I got it. The Qin was free. The innate cloak tips the balance.
This threat isn't even about the Aceton console. I applaud you dragging up something irrelevant to this topic.
The current US government is more similar to the Dominion or pre-war Cardassian Union then Federation anyway, the Cardassians went to Bajor "just to help the backward Bajorans" or the Dominion is just "maintaining order", just like the US is just trying to "spread democracy" but it just happens to be in countries with oil and other resources. At least we don't see the Federation do these schemes in the star trek universe, so they are trying to maintain a moral high ground, so no battle cloak for them.
Canon wise I agree, every seen cloak was a battle cloak and that would make sense. I would have probably expected it like that back in the time when I joined STO, if I ever thought about cloaks and Federation in the same context.
I liked the image the Federation had in Star Trek and frankly I don't want to see the Federation using cloaks extensively and the Avenger is already pushing it. Heck, even half the KDF ships can't cloak.
The issue here are arbitrary mechanics implemented by Cryptic to support their gameplay. Just like science ships being tied to 3/3 layout and innate subsystem targeting and sensor analysis, Cryptic decided the Romulans who invented the cloak to have it as battlecloak all around, the Klingons who got it from the Romulans to have it as regular cloak with the exception of BoPs which pay dearly for that and the Federation - a faction that is not suposed to cloak in the first place has it on a select number of ships as a console. These are the arbitrary mechanics I'm talking about and they have nothing to do with canon expamples, they're implemented because Cryptic decided the gameplay of STO to be like that. And I for one can understand why Cryptic did it.
If the 3 Fed. ships that can use the console get the ability as innate, then all the KDF ships that can cloak should be buffed to Federation stats. It's as simple as that. Although I actually prefer Cryptic's way of handling the issue, call me crazy but I actually like to have a few diferent things between the factions.
No doubt. But you comparing a post in the KDF section about a KDF ship, you know the faction that combined with the Romulans has less T5 end-game ships than the Federation alone, with a post in the Fed. section demanding KDF toys for Feds is just hillarious.
So do I. And I'm having a very difficult time taking you seriously when you constantly keep repeating that the Qin tops the Defiant.
Thanks for the applause, I'll be here the whole evening.
BTW, didn't you post in that acteon thread about how "that exchange needs to happen". So it's on the same topic you see - more Fed. demands about KDF/Romulan stuff.
Factor in the demands for BoP buffing and the like, and it's pretty poor. If KDF got all that they cry for in the course of the next year, the Fed Cloak Device will likely be rarely used due to the sacrifice it requires. Perhaps that is what it would take though; however I suspect even if Red got all they pine for, they would still vindictively oppose this notion.
My thoughts on a Fed built in/ consumable/ consumable device slot cloaking device because your fleet defiant isnt already OP enough without the extra free console slot.
I would argue this:
#1: The Khitomer Accord, the agreement:cool: between Romulans and the Federation that kept the Federation for pursuing a Cloaking Device is dead. It died with the Romulan Government.
#2: IN CANON the Federation has access to the following:
A: The Defiant Cloaking device, which acted as a battle cloak but was traceable by the Romulans.
B: The Cloaking Device seen on the Galaxy X, in an alternate universe, this is the only example of an "Ambush" Cloak seen on screen.
C: The Intangibility Cloak (ST:TNG Episode, The Pegasus), which is in some ways equivalent to the cloak being used by the Voth now.
Those two reasons are enough to argue that not only would the Federation, in a time of war, be pursuing the cloak technology, but they would actively be improving on the Pegasus Design.
Ideas to bring the Federation up to Canon Power levels then:
Step:
A: Allow Federation ships of Rear Admiral Upper and above to equip the Ambush Cloak.
This should be a DEVICE, and work as the cloak currently does.
B: Ships that currently have a cloak should be upgraded to using a cloaking console that provides Battle Cloak.
C: Either a project, or a Fleet Ship upgrade should unlock the Intangibility Cloak, which would work as the Battle Cloak, but stop taking damage on cloaking for 5 Sec, and be capable of flying through objects and other ships.
((Moderators: If this is not an appropriate thread please move my reply to the appropriate thread if you can. Thanks))
Klingons have the Battle cloak to on all thier ships in the 24th C. only the BoP has it is the 23 C.
When It comes to Feds they should have it as it is a Romulan cloak earlier but never the less.
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The Feds already have a Phase Cloak, but due to diplomacy issues, aren't able to use it. This is why Starfleet ships shouldn't have cloaks. Not because they don't have the technology, but because it is part of who they are. To keep the peace even though it might hurt them in the long run. The only Federation ships that should have cloaks is freighters. Harder for pirates to attack a freighter if its cloaked. That actually might be the reason why we can't find Romulan and Klingon Freighters.
I'm just going to take the liberty of pointing you back to post 80 on this thread.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13601501&postcount=80
It's not a matter of Feds having cloaks because we already do, but with people saying why we shouldn't, it's important to point out that the Federation, in canon, uses them quite often. Even noncanonically, Section 31 would probably have several ships out there with cloaking devices. The Prime Directive alone is the perfect reason for the Federation to be using them.
Second, this whole cloak issue could be resolved in a the following way, IMHO:
- romulans has the battle cloak as it is now
- KDF cloaks should be updated to battle cloak as well, by their own design, making a little bit different from the romulan ones somehow
- FED should have a cloak device or console, can be used on any FED ship and only on FED ships, not on lockbox alien ships, BUT it should be a defensive cloak, not an offensive, meaning can be used during combat but instead of giving offense bonuses when decloak, give DEFENSIVE bonuses (more than the +def) lingering after decloaking, so in this manner FED can have a "battle cloak" but having it as a defensive tool maybe it would be acceptable to the 'Starfleet is not a warhost, but explorers' people
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Alternate Timelines don't count. The Romulans gave permission for the Federation to use a cloaking device on one Starfleet ship not on hundreds or thousands. The Pegasus was using their cloaking device illegally. The problem is that the devs renewed the Treaty of Algeron and without nullifying the treaty in some way such as recognizing the Romulan Republic as the official Romulan government and D'Tan allowing the Federation to use cloaking devices, every Federation Captain that uses a cloak on a Starfleet ship is breaking the treaty.
The three fed cloakers exist because two of them existed before this proclamation and the last, the avenger, skirts the gray area of being able to use a cloak only if the player already owns one but in itself does not come with cloaking. (Its a lawyers move)
None of the existing fed cloakers suffer for having to use a console as the ships themselves where given space to mount the consoles by having an extra console slot given after the first round of complaints well over a year ago hit the forums.
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Yes, there are enough of them.
I would think it is safe to say that the Path to 2409 information is now out of date. With the relationship with the new Romulan Republic, and being a massive source of assistance in numerous ways, and the fact that the Avenger was designed to be cloak capable; we can deduce that the Federation likely has a new amendment or expansion of the initial Defiant amendment to the Treaty that it worked out with the Republic. Starfleet provides security aid to the Republic, and they have the lend-lease program for Romulan Captains to use Starfleet Vessels; in return we can surmise Starfleet has been approved to mount cloaking devices on the vessels capable of it in game for dealing with the numerous hostile fronts that exist on the galactic map.
Again, old standards, and now an outright fallacy. The Defiant and Gal-X have no more consoles slots than their counterparts in all three factions. In the past, they had a different system in place. That system is now history, stop trying to hold these to a standard that no longer exists.