Just out of curiousity, in what TV series or movie did the article that allows the federation to perform planetary genocide get shown?
Insurrection? It wouldn't have been an article, but they were going to waste the planet making it uninhabitable for decades, while using a ship that could cloak mind you.
If a player wants to have a Battle Cloak Fed side, then roll a Romulan or obtain the Tal Shiar Adapted ships or Voth ships.
I've always hated this argument, because it would be like a Fed telling the KDF "well if you wanted more ships or costumes, why not just roll a fed?" I will agree though, that while i want my cloak to cloak when i tell it to, even in read alert, i do feel that the KDF side needs more things to help keep it unique if they're not getting as much of an actual game out of it. the problem there though, is that the Devs kept making things that looked way too fun, with out making the KDF faction equally as engaging. As for the Treaty, you're right there as well, in STO canon at least, even though the planet was gone and it's people scattered, the Federation still decided to keep the treaty in action, though as shown in various other places, the Federation doesn't give a TRIBBLE unless it benefits them.
Battle-cloak, while I would love to have, would be overdoing it most likely. Though that could be nice for the Fleet Defiant, it just seems like too much stepping on toes. I'd much rather have the console slots freed up by intrinsic cloaking over battle-cloaking. A device slot would be an odd option, as no other ship special comes in that format.
Sadly even in the Fed sections you get Klinks coming here to preach their cries of needing buffs and improvements; and then demanding that anything made to better Fed experiences, comes with something of equal or greater value to KDF. Raptor turn rates have no bearing here, the Red Whine forums are down lower.
I'd say this game lost all connection to the tv shows when Starfleet and the kdf went to using cardassian, ferengi, jem hadar, tholian, iconian, and voth ships.
This is gospel for me too. STO has totally lost factional immersion for me.
Starfleet is more or less the Military arm of the United Federation of Planets since they have an "Armada" of ships for peace keeping purposes but they are military in this game.
Going back to topic a built in cloak on the ship that can use them seems fair why should a fed have to put a console on to cloak while the cloak-able ships on Klingons & Romulans get it as a natural part of their ship its not fair especially in the case of the Romulans you get all the benefits but no drawback at all (the -40 Power is not a draw back btw if you include the core abilities you get...)
As for those who say roll a romulan to get it, why should I or anyone else, I like playing my Vulcan, my Trill or any of my actual federation characters I don't want a fake fed for lack of a better word. Same goes for the Klingons who want to actually be Klingon lol
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No Drama, No Fuss, Just good old fashioned pew pew!
It's not 'supposed', it's a reality. There's a difference between Federation folks greedily demanding more goodies, as opposed to the KDF wanting some completion and equality. The KDF has been LOSING whatever counter-balances it had for the lack of ships. Of course, you lot don't care. You get your carriers, your new battlecruiser, your 5-fore-weapon ships, your 5 tac-console escorts, and then hold out your hands for more.
Actually, I haven't used a single thing, yet, that you have described. The only "advanced" stuff Fed side I have, is the Excelsior variants (Excel/refit Excel/ and Fleet Excel). Other than that, the "best" non-standard ship I have touched is a MU variant. Used to use the assault cruiser on my eng, now using a MU adv escort on my tac. And, oh, btw, using a MU Vo'Quv on my KDF sci, been using it for over half a year, and STILL having a ton of fun with it. Also started using a MU Vor'Cha on my new KDF eng, and that one's been fun so far as well.
And btw, 99% of the time, it's dedicated KDF'ers I see on here "holding out their hands for more" goodies. Usually not Fed. Personally, for KDF side, I'd like to see better story content (and more of it), more customizability of existing features, such as colour palettes for uniforms (and some off-duty outfits get jammed with the limited palette as well). And oh yeah, more customizability for some fo the ships. As it is, with that Orion flight-deck cruiser, you can't even paint the damn thing. And I'm sure other ships have that problem as well.
Currently, I feel as for "counter-balance", the KDF still has plenty, vs Fed, it's the RR that they're losing too, but then again, so is the Fed.
So my stance is still the same. You want more KDF ships? Then Fed should get more cloak availablility options. Fair is fair after all......
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Option 2: That sounds reasonable, assuming Raptors and KDF Battle Cruisers also receive this upgrade and the Raptor turn rate bug repaired, KBoPs receive a major buff from their current stats (they need a moderate buff already), and Warbirds have their power penalty reduced or modified to offset with Singularity Charge.
Personally, this sounds UNreasonable to give the Warbirds any buffing, as with their cloaks, they get enhanced speed and turn rate. So they're already good to go, in my opinion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Actually, I haven't used a single thing, yet, that you have described. The only "advanced" stuff Fed side I have, is the Excelsior variants (Excel/refit Excel/ and Fleet Excel). Other than that, the "best" non-standard ship I have touched is a MU variant. Used to use the assault cruiser on my eng, now using a MU adv escort on my tac. And, oh, btw, using a MU Vo'Quv on my KDF sci, been using it for over half a year, and STILL having a ton of fun with it. Also started using a MU Vor'Cha on my new KDF eng, and that one's been fun so far as well.
And btw, 99% of the time, it's dedicated KDF'ers I see on here "holding out their hands for more" goodies. Usually not Fed. Personally, for KDF side, I'd like to see better story content (and more of it), more customizability of existing features, such as colour palettes for uniforms (and some off-duty outfits get jammed with the limited palette as well). And oh yeah, more customizability for some fo the ships. As it is, with that Orion flight-deck cruiser, you can't even paint the damn thing. And I'm sure other ships have that problem as well.
Currently, I feel as for "counter-balance", the KDF still has plenty, vs Fed, it's the RR that they're losing too, but then again, so is the Fed.
So my stance is still the same. You want more KDF ships? Then Fed should get more cloak availablility options. Fair is fair after all......
Wall o' text there.
Now, based off your forum join date, I am gonna guess you are somewhat-ish new to the game. Going on that, I'd like to say this:
Just because you don't see the 'Fed whining' now, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Some of the things so many players just take for granted now, like...say...carriers, were once unique to the KDF.
For a long time, Cryptic even said, 'No, only the KDF will have carriers', but the whining continued until they eventually gave in, for one reason or another. So Feds got the Atrox. Then eventually the Armitage. And past that, the Vesta 3-pack, all carriers to a degree.
In another example, people would go on a LOT about how 'overpowered' KDF unique consoles were (long before lockboxes were introduced). So people would whine about wanting those, and, failing that, nerf them. Yet once some of these very consoles (examples like Graviton Pulse and Plasmonic Leech come to mind) all of a sudden, the consoles are perfectly ok and no more Fed whining.
There have been TONS of 'Fed cloak' threads throughout the years as well, in their various forms for one way or another. Shockingly enough, of all the stuff people have whined about, Cryptic hasn't really budged at all about Fed cloaking. So I doubt this thread will change anything.
Again I say, just because you haven't seen 'Fed whining' and only see 'KDF whining' doesn't mean it never happened. Often times people would even use the excuse of 'it's only fair' as well.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I've always hated this argument, because it would be like a Fed telling the KDF "well if you wanted more ships or costumes, why not just roll a fed?" I will agree though, that while i want my cloak to cloak when i tell it to, even in read alert, i do feel that the KDF side needs more things to help keep it unique if they're not getting as much of an actual game out of it. the problem there though, is that the Devs kept making things that looked way too fun, with out making the KDF faction equally as engaging. As for the Treaty, you're right there as well, in STO canon at least, even though the planet was gone and it's people scattered, the Federation still decided to keep the treaty in action, though as shown in various other places, the Federation doesn't give a TRIBBLE unless it benefits them.
Well, that's tough. So you need to get over yourself. Thankfully, CBS has override authority with regards to cloaking devices for the Federation or the Devs would have rolled over and given them away long before now.
And as far as Fed cloakers, most of the KDF vs. Fed space matches I have played in the last month, the Fed side has almost exclusively been Fed allied Romulans. It is as if the Federation already has cloaking devices. Despite there now being almost no difference in experience between a KDF vs. KDF match and a Fed vs. KDF match, I still highly doubt that the number of KDF vs. KDF PUG matches will increase.
Well, that's tough. So you need to get over yourself. Thankfully, CBS has override authority with regards to cloaking devices for the Federation or the Devs would have rolled over and given them away long before now.
And as far as Fed cloakers, most of the KDF vs. Fed space matches I have played in the last month, the Fed side has almost exclusively been Fed allied Romulans. It is as if the Federation already has cloaking devices. Despite there now being almost no difference in experience between a KDF vs. KDF match and a Fed vs. KDF match, I still highly doubt that the number of KDF vs. KDF PUG matches will increase.
So if by your own logic, there is no difference, then why so adamant about your view? You clearly know that the feds already have cloak, and that PVP is indistinguishable, then why push so hard against going one more step, that would make things more canon?
Now, based off your forum join date, I am gonna guess you are somewhat-ish new to the game. Going on that, I'd like to say this:
Just because you don't see the 'Fed whining' now, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Some of the things so many players just take for granted now, like...say...carriers, were once unique to the KDF.
For a long time, Cryptic even said, 'No, only the KDF will have carriers', but the whining continued until they eventually gave in, for one reason or another. So Feds got the Atrox. Then eventually the Armitage. And past that, the Vesta 3-pack, all carriers to a degree.
In another example, people would go on a LOT about how 'overpowered' KDF unique consoles were (long before lockboxes were introduced). So people would whine about wanting those, and, failing that, nerf them. Yet once some of these very consoles (examples like Graviton Pulse and Plasmonic Leech come to mind) all of a sudden, the consoles are perfectly ok and no more Fed whining.
There have been TONS of 'Fed cloak' threads throughout the years as well, in their various forms for one way or another. Shockingly enough, of all the stuff people have whined about, Cryptic hasn't really budged at all about Fed cloaking. So I doubt this thread will change anything.
Again I say, just because you haven't seen 'Fed whining' and only see 'KDF whining' doesn't mean it never happened. Often times people would even use the excuse of 'it's only fair' as well.
Back in the beginning of the game KDF was very over powered in PVP. I was there leveling up my fed via PVP. The BoP Sci ships with universal BOFF slot that would decloak and lock you down completely while they sat sipping a beer plinking away at you while you couldn't even move or execute a skill. Hence the tactic of the Fed Ball was created. When they got noticed they would evasive away and battle cloak.
I still have fond memories of Full impulse or Evasive + Brace + Ramming speed and plowing into those guys in a galaxy and watching them blow up when they weren't paying attention.
Add to that the KDF only Carrier with either a eng or sci officer at the helm and it only made it worse. Not to mention all the trash talk about how the feds sucked at pvp with little attention paid to the obvious disparity in ship types and of course cloak.
Granted there aren't a ton of KDF ships compared to the Feds but for the first full year at least of this game the KDF had ships that were built for PVP and the feds had ships that were generic and unless you had a premade (or the KDF sucked particularly hard that match) Fed was going to loose and loose big.
Was their fed whining....definitely but some of it was warranted.
Back in the beginning of the game KDF was very over powered in PVP. I was there leveling up my fed via PVP. The BoP Sci ships with universal BOFF slot that would decloak and lock you down completely while they sat sipping a beer plinking away at you while you couldn't even move or execute a skill. Hence the tactic of the Fed Ball was created. When they got noticed they would evasive away and battle cloak.
I still have fond memories of Full impulse or Evasive + Brace + Ramming speed and plowing into those guys in a galaxy and watching them blow up when they weren't paying attention.
Add to that the KDF only Carrier with either a eng or sci officer at the helm and it only made it worse. Not to mention all the trash talk about how the feds sucked at pvp with little attention paid to the obvious disparity in ship types and of course cloak.
Granted there aren't a ton of KDF ships compared to the Feds but for the first full year at least of this game the KDF had ships that were built for PVP and the feds had ships that were generic and unless you had a premade (or the KDF sucked particularly hard that match) Fed was going to loose and loose big.
Was their fed whining....definitely but some of it was warranted.
What you describe were problems that existed with science, not with KDF.
Especially the old VM was a serious issue back then.
What you describe were problems that existed with science, not with KDF.
Especially the old VM was a serious issue back then.
No I wasn't saying it was a problem with KDF.... Yes VM sucked back then. What I am saying is that at the start KDF had ships designed and built for PVP where as the Feds had generic ships that were lacking. Universal slots, battle cloak, the carrier and even the battle cruiser were all on the KDF side in the beginning. Even turn rate disparities were in play between sides. The Feds turn rates in Cruisers always lacked.
Is this a problem today? No. But that is where the whining started.
Sadly even in the Fed sections you get Klinks coming here to preach their cries of needing buffs and improvements; and then demanding that anything made to better Fed experiences, comes with something of equal or greater value to KDF. Raptor turn rates have no bearing here, the Red Whine forums are down lower.
Sadly? Oh and all this time I thought all the forum sections are open for discussion to anyone. I also thought that players are allowed to make chars of multiple factions on their 1 account. I thought that was the point that Cryptic offers 3 faction specific character slots for each F2P account. Silly me. :rolleyes:
You know, many of us have chars in each faction. There is no such thing as 'Klinks' of 'Feds' or 'Rommies', just STO players. If you locked your brain into a single faction that your problem, not anyone else's.
No I wasn't saying it was a problem with KDF.... Yes VM sucked back then. What I am saying is that at the start KDF had ships designed and built for PVP where as the Feds had generic ships that were lacking. Universal slots, battle cloak, the carrier and even the battle cruiser were all on the KDF side in the beginning. Even turn rate disparities were in play between sides. The Feds turn rates in Cruisers always lacked.
Is this a problem today? No. But that is where the whining started.
If it wasn't a problem with KDF the whining was not "warranted", as you called it.
Or, and I mean this seriously, am I missing your point?
Also a lot of the "problems" were a matter of perception.
I recelty saw a thread where someone complained the Bioneural Warhead was unable to unshot enemy T5 players in PvP after he had heard so many horror stories about how totally awesome this weapon was.
Another thing you can find here:
is that appearently a turnrate of 9 is not enough and the Avenger must be buffed to at least 11 or 12, so the supposed turnrate advanatage on the KDF side is...what?
Seriously on the one hand it's supposed to be a serious advantage when the KDF has it on the other hand the same turnrate as the only T5 battlecruiser the KDF had at launch is totally unacceptable.
I'd also like to add that back at launch the so supposedly built for PvP T5 KDF ships had only 8 consoles and the battlecruisers were restricted to DCs and DHCs of the previous tier.
So how "overpowered" is or was Klingon stuff really and how much is just "if we don't have it it must be overpowered" perception?
As the game progresses and new things are added, sadly we see old ones fall to the wayside. The Universal Console Cloaking Device is probably the most obvious and painful example of this issue. It?s become nearly impossible to use in any efficient manner outside of onetime use ambushes.
yes, the pain of a non battle cloack that took a console slot, no wonder most people trow it out to the airlock
An easy way to boost its value would be to change it from a Universal Console to a Device, you know, reflecting the name itself. There are already a few non-consumable devices in the game, one that even functions very similarly to a Cloaking Device. This would free up valuable console space on the few ships than can use it. Ships that don?t have much spare room in the Console department if you want to play competitively.
that really is an exellent idea, and some that cryptic could agree on
A second reasonable option is what people have been asking for quite some time. To update the Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Battle Cloak. Again, only three ships can use this, so its not exactly game breaking, especially if it remains as a Console. It adds a layer of versatility but still comes at a cost.
that an idea i was not really good with, but since romulan got one with absolutely no downside whatsoever, well why not, especially if it remain a console, at least it would be worth the slot.
but in anycase i still prefer the device slot option with non battle cloak.
I suppose a fourth option could be to have a Reputation Project that allows you to refit a Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Universal Console Battle Cloaking Device. It would have to be Tier 5 of course, and require a Universal Console Cloaking Device be used as a token of payment. That way Cryptic would still get their money as people have to buy a Galaxy X or Defiant Retrofit to get it.
yes that too, or the same thing to transform the console cloak into a device cloak
anyway, good post, you propose some very good options
As long as all standard KDF cloaks can be upgraded to battle cloaks. Otherwise thd idea for only fed ships to have the capability is unbalanced and unfair.
As well KDF Bops will need a slight buff to remove the handicap for having battle cloaks. Maybe a Shield Mod increase.
And Romulans as well will need a slight buff.
I truly love these discussions and the ridiculous answers that are posted. Let's review:
The Federation are Explorers only.
The technology of the Defiant Cloak was not a battle cloak.
The Federation should not have it, its special for the Romulans.
Blah Blah Blah.
THE only answer that is acceptable is game balance. Otherwise please think about your response before posting.
The FEDERATION is at war. How many rules go out the window in war?
Shall we look at the United States?
Developed the first biological weapons against the Native American and pretty much violated almost every treaty.
Developed the Atomic Bomb.
WHY oh WHY do you think a government at WAR would not do everything in its technological, military and economical might to not only duplicate the technology of the enemy, but enhance it to give it an edge. War is not fun. Winners write history. And if they won, the "it was a necessary evil" and if they lose "they were not honorable and we crushed them"
How would the federation get battle cloaks? Um by not blasting Klingons to smitherines and simply trying to damage ships and salvage them. Or hey umm while I know the Klingons are helping you as well, you know romulan republic we did sort of like help you....ALOT.
No argument makes sense except game balance. And that is an argument I readily admit I have not enough knowledge to claim that the Federation needs battle cloaks.
If it wasn't a problem with KDF the whining was not "warranted", as you called it.
Or, and I mean this seriously, am I missing your point?
Also a lot of the "problems" were a matter of perception.
I recelty saw a thread where someone complained the Bioneural Warhead was unable to unshot enemy T5 players in PvP after he had heard so many horror stories about how totally awesome this weapon was.
Another thing you can find here:
is that appearently a turnrate of 9 is not enough and the Avenger must be buffed to at least 11 or 12, so the supposed turnrate advanatage on the KDF side is...what?
Seriously on the one hand it's supposed to be a serious advantage when the KDF has it on the other hand the same turnrate as the only T5 battlecruiser the KDF had at launch is totally unacceptable.
I'd also like to add that back at launch the so supposedly built for PvP T5 KDF ships had only 8 consoles and the battlecruisers were restricted to DCs and DHCs of the previous tier.
So how "overpowered" is or was Klingon stuff really and how much is just "if we don't have it it must be overpowered" perception?
People will always whine about what the other guy has. That's not the point I was making
The point I was making is that from Day 1 KDF ships were built for PVP where Fed ships were more geared to PVE. Some of this I believe is because the KDF had ZERO story line and were built as a PVP faction and not a separate race with it's own story and missions. Cloak, Battle Cloak, the Carrier were big deals in the Ques. If you were a PVP min/maxer KDF was the side to play period. Clearly some of this has changed.
The ability to field 3 carriers sharing heals or de-cloak and alpha strike are huge things in PVP hence the rise of the Fed Ball. I say this having PVP'd as both Fed and Klingon back in the day. The Klingons could pug with a very good chance of winning easily. The Feds could only do this if all the players were pvp vets and understood what to expect and how to counter which was fairly rare. Premades not with standing.
When the Galaxy X showed up you could get a great alpha off after de-cloaking though it turned like a pregnant water buffalo but that ability makes a difference.
This gave rise to the whinning and current state of KDF/FED ships. I don't PVP anymore but I hear the Romulans in different configs are now the Race/ships dejour. I have read a few KDF rants about why Romulans get battle cloak and they only get it on the BoP.
I truly love these discussions and the ridiculous answers that are posted. Let's review:
The Federation are Explorers only.
The technology of the Defiant Cloak was not a battle cloak.
The Federation should not have it, its special for the Romulans.
Blah Blah Blah.
THE only answer that is acceptable is game balance. Otherwise please think about your response before posting.
The FEDERATION is at war. How many rules go out the window in war?
Shall we look at the United States?
Developed the first biological weapons against the Native American and pretty much violated almost every treaty.
Developed the Atomic Bomb.
WHY oh WHY do you think a government at WAR would not do everything in its technological, military and economical might to not only duplicate the technology of the enemy, but enhance it to give it an edge. War is not fun. Winners write history. And if they won, the "it was a necessary evil" and if they lose "they were not honorable and we crushed them"
How would the federation get battle cloaks? Um by not blasting Klingons to smitherines and simply trying to damage ships and salvage them. Or hey umm while I know the Klingons are helping you as well, you know romulan republic we did sort of like help you....ALOT.
No argument makes sense except game balance. And that is an argument I readily admit I have not enough knowledge to claim that the Federation needs battle cloaks.
And I love it when people pretend they know what they're talking about when in fact they have no idea.
United States? ROFLMAO :P Are you for real?? :P
Admit it, you absolutely have no clue what the Federation is and what is suposed to represent, do you?
I truly love these discussions and the ridiculous answers that are posted. Let's review:
The Federation are Explorers only.
The technology of the Defiant Cloak was not a battle cloak.
The Federation should not have it, its special for the Romulans.
Blah Blah Blah.
THE only answer that is acceptable is game balance. Otherwise please think about your response before posting.
The FEDERATION is at war. How many rules go out the window in war?
Shall we look at the United States?
Developed the first biological weapons against the Native American and pretty much violated almost every treaty.
Developed the Atomic Bomb.
WHY oh WHY do you think a government at WAR would not do everything in its technological, military and economical might to not only duplicate the technology of the enemy, but enhance it to give it an edge. War is not fun. Winners write history. And if they won, the "it was a necessary evil" and if they lose "they were not honorable and we crushed them"
How would the federation get battle cloaks? Um by not blasting Klingons to smitherines and simply trying to damage ships and salvage them. Or hey umm while I know the Klingons are helping you as well, you know romulan republic we did sort of like help you....ALOT.
No argument makes sense except game balance. And that is an argument I readily admit I have not enough knowledge to claim that the Federation needs battle cloaks.
I stongly suggest you read the STO novel "The Needs of the Many".
It clearly establishes that the Federation stuck to its principles through the entirety of the conflict. In fact it is pointed out that Adm. Leytons attempted coup (see DS9) was a kind of "inoculation" (not my word) against other attempts to subvert Federation ideals.
It's also the "United Federation of Planets" and not the "United Federation of America".
I stongly suggest you read the STO novel "The Needs of the Many".
It clearly establishes that the Federation stuck to its principles through the entirety of the conflict. In fact it is pointed out that Adm. Leytons attempted coup (see DS9) was a kind of "inoculation" (not my word) against other attempts to subvert Federation ideals.
It's also the "United Federation of Planets" and not the "United Federation of America".
Ummm I do not know what the federation is. Umm ok.
U.S.S. -> United Space Ship but lets face it, it was made in the US and name recongnition of United States Ship. Not FSS or Federation Space Ship.
Not saying it did not, however, as seen in TOS and Enterprise, they were working on a cloaking device.
Read the story lines for Section 31 in the game. I am extremely paraphrasing here but pretty much, I do not care for the rules, I am going to just get things done and who cares if it violates temporal rules. Section 31 is basically the "prinicpals" that allow the federation to do whatever it needs to do.
I never said it was the united federation of America, but if you think that its not heavily influenced by the United States and the US time period it was originally written in...here is a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
By the way I can look to history of many countries to see how principals are violated in war. Its not a US only thing.
As long as all standard KDF cloaks can be upgraded to battle cloaks. Otherwise thd idea for only fed ships to have the capability is unbalanced and unfair.
As well KDF Bops will need a slight buff to remove the handicap for having battle cloaks. Maybe a Shield Mod increase.
And Romulans as well will need a slight buff.
I honestly agree with and support this idea. I'm not crying out that all of my fed ships should be armed with battle cloaks, no. I just think that ALL cloaks in the game should work when i hit the button, regardless of combat status. I don't care if they keep feds with a console or limited in capable ships, and i can really see the reasoning in buffing KDF and Rom versions more than the fed version, but as it is in canon, I should be able to activate my cloaks when ever i feel like it, as long as i'm prepared to deal with the consequences of dropping my shields. I've been wanting more advanced versions of Cloak as well to show a little more advancement in technologies as well, but i don't want that to take away from what opposing factions already have. The KDF and Romulan factions have had just as much time to enhance their cloaks, so why shouldn't their basic versions be better than something we saw almost two hundred years before?
I'm all for keeping things balanced between the factions, but just telling one side they can't have what several other factions are using left and right, just doesn't seem like it's really improving anything, including your own arguement. Instead of just telling the other side "No, you can't have it, because it's ours", why not start posting ideas that would actually benefit both sides, like Roach does?
He's not whining, he's not denying, He's just tossing out ideas to keep things fair and balanced. With how much the feds want better cloaks, it's going to happen eventually, the issue should really be more about how to keep it fair and balanced for everyone, rather than just throwing fits where no one wins.
As for the USA bits, and seeing how fast the Federation will toss its own rules out, i find that to be very true, there are numerous times the Federation climbed down from it's moral highground, and i seriously doubt that it wouldn't do so again.
Even in TOS, there are episodes where Kirk is flat out sent into steal a romulan cloak, just so they can see how it works. I've already mentioned Insurrection, and how badly that was handled. Even on the flip side, there are plenty of times, the crew would drop everything they supposedly believe, just to do what they feel is right: From breaking the prime directive, or the temporal directive, to just flat out killing some one. Section 31 alone is a good enough reason to not trust that the Federation wouldn't do anything crazy just to keep its people safe. I honestly can't believe that there aren't a few ships out there designed as war ships of the Federation, some of which would have cloak. Ships that gather intellegence, might have them as well, given that it would be too dangerous to go in exploring with the Enterprize.
The Romulans, Klingons, and Federation working together in the endgame alone is enough to make me think that the Treaty might be altered more than slightly, as long as it was to investigate the Dominion, or the Borg, or Voth. We even have a few personal cloak options for Federation Captains in ground combat as well, made with the express purpose of murderi... Rendering people unconcious...
If PvP balance is the big concern, i really don't know how it matters there either. The KDF can efficiently fight KDF or Romulans with no problems. There are ways around cloak in PvP that would help them there too. Plus someday...(in the distant future apparently) aren't they going to (supposedly) revamp PvP all together? If the feds could cloak on command, how would that really change anything?
They could still only do it on two ships at the moment. If they could do battle cloak, wouldn't the other factions get some kind of boost to their cloaks as well to balance it out? I would love getting a little more out of my BoP if i could, but i really don't see how this one tiny little thing (cloak on command, not Battle cloak as a whole) would really be as game breaking as some people seem to cry out. I was under the impression that the game was already heavily broken against the Klingons in the first place, though i do like that Cryptic is working on it, i can see that it's clearly all about money to them, and most of said money comes from the Federation players. More so since, much to my dismay, the romulans aren't even a real faction.
Sorry, i got a little ranty there, but at the same time, i really can't see why so many people argue against something like this, instead of throwing out ways to make the game better or more canon over all. There are a million ways to make the cloak better, and we're only delaying that by fighting.
I personally would love it if all default, basic cloaks were battle cloaks. That's canon. That's how they worked in enterprise, tos, tng, ds9, voy, and any of the films. You push a button and you become invisible. All basic cloaks should be able to do that.
Klingon and Romulan cloaks should be a standard ship function, while the feds still need to use a console, or better yet, make them all a console (adding a cloak slot to ships as needed) so that we can get better versions, like warp cores. That would still limit the number of ships on the fed side that can use them.
From there, Klingons could get Battle cloak, which would be upgraded to fire torps while cloaked, making the C-Store version a better version or adding synergy to make it still viable.
Since KDF Battle cloak would be offensive, Romulan Battle Cloak could be Defensive, making it more difficult to detect, or offering slight shielding or defensive buffing, to make it more inline with the Scimitar's advanced cloak, without devaluing the store bought ship.
Federation wouldn't really get a Battle Cloak as described in the above, but instead just go from Basic to Advanced at endgame. Either through the rep or what not, they would get the Phase Cloak. It's a thing, it's canon, and even the Voth are using it in game, so it's already out there.
The Scimitar already Gives the Romulans their advanced cloak, and it seems pretty BA at the moment, but i'm not sure what would be a great Advanced Cloak for Klingons. There's the obvious Weapons fire cloak from all good things, but i still like the idea of having something a little more tactical, like a cloaking field, where you can hide non cloaking ships, or a bunch of mines, or things of that nature.
I really do feel that the game should be showing cloak as having advanced with the times and technology, and not actually limiting it to pre-canon existance for the playable factions. As others have been stating though, Keeping it balanced as well as fun, should clearly be the key thing. I would also be curious to see ideas from others about how to make cloaking better as a whole, than just arguing against each other in a downward spiral.
If it wasn't a problem with KDF the whining was not "warranted", as you called it.
Or, and I mean this seriously, am I missing your point?
Also a lot of the "problems" were a matter of perception.
I recelty saw a thread where someone complained the Bioneural Warhead was unable to unshot enemy T5 players in PvP after he had heard so many horror stories about how totally awesome this weapon was.
Another thing you can find here:
is that appearently a turnrate of 9 is not enough and the Avenger must be buffed to at least 11 or 12, so the supposed turnrate advanatage on the KDF side is...what?
Seriously on the one hand it's supposed to be a serious advantage when the KDF has it on the other hand the same turnrate as the only T5 battlecruiser the KDF had at launch is totally unacceptable.
I'd also like to add that back at launch the so supposedly built for PvP T5 KDF ships had only 8 consoles and the battlecruisers were restricted to DCs and DHCs of the previous tier.
So how "overpowered" is or was Klingon stuff really and how much is just "if we don't have it it must be overpowered" perception?
I'm laughing at that thread. People seriously have the nerve to complain about the Avenger, a ship that outperforms pretty much everything the KDF has in that classification (except for a cloak, which will cost them a console to use)? The bloody thing has a 50 inertia rating, for Kahless' sake. Everything else about it is battlecruiser-spec, except for that.
The Defiants cloaking device was very specifically shown to be of Romulan origin and initially operated by a Romulan officer. Per game canon ALL Romulan cloaks are battlecloaks, therefore the cloaking device on the Defiant should be a battlecloak as both show and game canon show.
The Romulan shuttle only has a normal cloak that can't be engaged during Red Alert
If a player wants to have a Battle Cloak Fed side, then roll a Romulan or obtain the Tal Shiar Adapted ships or Voth ships.
Tal Shiar Adapted ships don't have battle cloaks or singularities. This appear to be a deliberate design decision to prevent singularity abilities and battlecloaking from being shared across factions since Lobi ships are available to all.
I truly love these discussions and the ridiculous answers that are posted. Let's review:
The Federation are Explorers only.
The technology of the Defiant Cloak was not a battle cloak.
The Federation should not have it, its special for the Romulans.
Blah Blah Blah.
THE only answer that is acceptable is game balance. Otherwise please think about your response before posting.
The FEDERATION is at war. How many rules go out the window in war?
Shall we look at the United States?
Developed the first biological weapons against the Native American and pretty much violated almost every treaty.
Developed the Atomic Bomb.
WHY oh WHY do you think a government at WAR would not do everything in its technological, military and economical might to not only duplicate the technology of the enemy, but enhance it to give it an edge. War is not fun. Winners write history. And if they won, the "it was a necessary evil" and if they lose "they were not honorable and we crushed them"
How would the federation get battle cloaks? Um by not blasting Klingons to smitherines and simply trying to damage ships and salvage them. Or hey umm while I know the Klingons are helping you as well, you know romulan republic we did sort of like help you....ALOT.
No argument makes sense except game balance. And that is an argument I readily admit I have not enough knowledge to claim that the Federation needs battle cloaks.
Actually your response is ridiculous, disrespectful to others and shows you don't understand what Star Trek is about. Therefore we can disregard it.
I admit, I've actually suggested what I consider a reasonable, balanced idea for cloaking for all three factions in the past...but of course, we can't have that on the forum, so I don't bother wasting my time or anyone else's time with it anymore. *shrug*
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
Insurrection? It wouldn't have been an article, but they were going to waste the planet making it uninhabitable for decades, while using a ship that could cloak mind you.
I've always hated this argument, because it would be like a Fed telling the KDF "well if you wanted more ships or costumes, why not just roll a fed?" I will agree though, that while i want my cloak to cloak when i tell it to, even in read alert, i do feel that the KDF side needs more things to help keep it unique if they're not getting as much of an actual game out of it. the problem there though, is that the Devs kept making things that looked way too fun, with out making the KDF faction equally as engaging. As for the Treaty, you're right there as well, in STO canon at least, even though the planet was gone and it's people scattered, the Federation still decided to keep the treaty in action, though as shown in various other places, the Federation doesn't give a TRIBBLE unless it benefits them.
Sadly even in the Fed sections you get Klinks coming here to preach their cries of needing buffs and improvements; and then demanding that anything made to better Fed experiences, comes with something of equal or greater value to KDF. Raptor turn rates have no bearing here, the Red Whine forums are down lower.
This is gospel for me too. STO has totally lost factional immersion for me.
Going back to topic a built in cloak on the ship that can use them seems fair why should a fed have to put a console on to cloak while the cloak-able ships on Klingons & Romulans get it as a natural part of their ship its not fair especially in the case of the Romulans you get all the benefits but no drawback at all (the -40 Power is not a draw back btw if you include the core abilities you get...)
As for those who say roll a romulan to get it, why should I or anyone else, I like playing my Vulcan, my Trill or any of my actual federation characters I don't want a fake fed for lack of a better word. Same goes for the Klingons who want to actually be Klingon lol
Actually, I haven't used a single thing, yet, that you have described. The only "advanced" stuff Fed side I have, is the Excelsior variants (Excel/refit Excel/ and Fleet Excel). Other than that, the "best" non-standard ship I have touched is a MU variant. Used to use the assault cruiser on my eng, now using a MU adv escort on my tac. And, oh, btw, using a MU Vo'Quv on my KDF sci, been using it for over half a year, and STILL having a ton of fun with it. Also started using a MU Vor'Cha on my new KDF eng, and that one's been fun so far as well.
And btw, 99% of the time, it's dedicated KDF'ers I see on here "holding out their hands for more" goodies. Usually not Fed. Personally, for KDF side, I'd like to see better story content (and more of it), more customizability of existing features, such as colour palettes for uniforms (and some off-duty outfits get jammed with the limited palette as well). And oh yeah, more customizability for some fo the ships. As it is, with that Orion flight-deck cruiser, you can't even paint the damn thing. And I'm sure other ships have that problem as well.
Currently, I feel as for "counter-balance", the KDF still has plenty, vs Fed, it's the RR that they're losing too, but then again, so is the Fed.
So my stance is still the same. You want more KDF ships? Then Fed should get more cloak availablility options. Fair is fair after all......
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Personally, this sounds UNreasonable to give the Warbirds any buffing, as with their cloaks, they get enhanced speed and turn rate. So they're already good to go, in my opinion.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Star Trek, Season 1, Episode 23: A Taste of Armageddon.
Wall o' text there.
Now, based off your forum join date, I am gonna guess you are somewhat-ish new to the game. Going on that, I'd like to say this:
Just because you don't see the 'Fed whining' now, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Some of the things so many players just take for granted now, like...say...carriers, were once unique to the KDF.
For a long time, Cryptic even said, 'No, only the KDF will have carriers', but the whining continued until they eventually gave in, for one reason or another. So Feds got the Atrox. Then eventually the Armitage. And past that, the Vesta 3-pack, all carriers to a degree.
In another example, people would go on a LOT about how 'overpowered' KDF unique consoles were (long before lockboxes were introduced). So people would whine about wanting those, and, failing that, nerf them. Yet once some of these very consoles (examples like Graviton Pulse and Plasmonic Leech come to mind) all of a sudden, the consoles are perfectly ok and no more Fed whining.
There have been TONS of 'Fed cloak' threads throughout the years as well, in their various forms for one way or another. Shockingly enough, of all the stuff people have whined about, Cryptic hasn't really budged at all about Fed cloaking. So I doubt this thread will change anything.
Again I say, just because you haven't seen 'Fed whining' and only see 'KDF whining' doesn't mean it never happened. Often times people would even use the excuse of 'it's only fair' as well.
Well, that's tough. So you need to get over yourself. Thankfully, CBS has override authority with regards to cloaking devices for the Federation or the Devs would have rolled over and given them away long before now.
And as far as Fed cloakers, most of the KDF vs. Fed space matches I have played in the last month, the Fed side has almost exclusively been Fed allied Romulans. It is as if the Federation already has cloaking devices. Despite there now being almost no difference in experience between a KDF vs. KDF match and a Fed vs. KDF match, I still highly doubt that the number of KDF vs. KDF PUG matches will increase.
So if by your own logic, there is no difference, then why so adamant about your view? You clearly know that the feds already have cloak, and that PVP is indistinguishable, then why push so hard against going one more step, that would make things more canon?
That makes no sense... but i guess that's tough?
Back in the beginning of the game KDF was very over powered in PVP. I was there leveling up my fed via PVP. The BoP Sci ships with universal BOFF slot that would decloak and lock you down completely while they sat sipping a beer plinking away at you while you couldn't even move or execute a skill. Hence the tactic of the Fed Ball was created. When they got noticed they would evasive away and battle cloak.
I still have fond memories of Full impulse or Evasive + Brace + Ramming speed and plowing into those guys in a galaxy and watching them blow up when they weren't paying attention.
Add to that the KDF only Carrier with either a eng or sci officer at the helm and it only made it worse. Not to mention all the trash talk about how the feds sucked at pvp with little attention paid to the obvious disparity in ship types and of course cloak.
Granted there aren't a ton of KDF ships compared to the Feds but for the first full year at least of this game the KDF had ships that were built for PVP and the feds had ships that were generic and unless you had a premade (or the KDF sucked particularly hard that match) Fed was going to loose and loose big.
Was their fed whining....definitely but some of it was warranted.
What you describe were problems that existed with science, not with KDF.
Especially the old VM was a serious issue back then.
No I wasn't saying it was a problem with KDF.... Yes VM sucked back then. What I am saying is that at the start KDF had ships designed and built for PVP where as the Feds had generic ships that were lacking. Universal slots, battle cloak, the carrier and even the battle cruiser were all on the KDF side in the beginning. Even turn rate disparities were in play between sides. The Feds turn rates in Cruisers always lacked.
Is this a problem today? No. But that is where the whining started.
Sadly? Oh and all this time I thought all the forum sections are open for discussion to anyone. I also thought that players are allowed to make chars of multiple factions on their 1 account. I thought that was the point that Cryptic offers 3 faction specific character slots for each F2P account. Silly me. :rolleyes:
You know, many of us have chars in each faction. There is no such thing as 'Klinks' of 'Feds' or 'Rommies', just STO players. If you locked your brain into a single faction that your problem, not anyone else's.
If it wasn't a problem with KDF the whining was not "warranted", as you called it.
Or, and I mean this seriously, am I missing your point?
Also a lot of the "problems" were a matter of perception.
I recelty saw a thread where someone complained the Bioneural Warhead was unable to unshot enemy T5 players in PvP after he had heard so many horror stories about how totally awesome this weapon was.
Another thing you can find here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=909611
is that appearently a turnrate of 9 is not enough and the Avenger must be buffed to at least 11 or 12, so the supposed turnrate advanatage on the KDF side is...what?
Seriously on the one hand it's supposed to be a serious advantage when the KDF has it on the other hand the same turnrate as the only T5 battlecruiser the KDF had at launch is totally unacceptable.
I'd also like to add that back at launch the so supposedly built for PvP T5 KDF ships had only 8 consoles and the battlecruisers were restricted to DCs and DHCs of the previous tier.
So how "overpowered" is or was Klingon stuff really and how much is just "if we don't have it it must be overpowered" perception?
yes, the pain of a non battle cloack that took a console slot, no wonder most people trow it out to the airlock
that really is an exellent idea, and some that cryptic could agree on
that an idea i was not really good with, but since romulan got one with absolutely no downside whatsoever, well why not, especially if it remain a console, at least it would be worth the slot.
but in anycase i still prefer the device slot option with non battle cloak.
yes that too, or the same thing to transform the console cloak into a device cloak
anyway, good post, you propose some very good options
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
R.I.P
And Romulans as well will need a slight buff.
R.I.P
The Federation are Explorers only.
The technology of the Defiant Cloak was not a battle cloak.
The Federation should not have it, its special for the Romulans.
Blah Blah Blah.
THE only answer that is acceptable is game balance. Otherwise please think about your response before posting.
The FEDERATION is at war. How many rules go out the window in war?
Shall we look at the United States?
Developed the first biological weapons against the Native American and pretty much violated almost every treaty.
Developed the Atomic Bomb.
WHY oh WHY do you think a government at WAR would not do everything in its technological, military and economical might to not only duplicate the technology of the enemy, but enhance it to give it an edge. War is not fun. Winners write history. And if they won, the "it was a necessary evil" and if they lose "they were not honorable and we crushed them"
How would the federation get battle cloaks? Um by not blasting Klingons to smitherines and simply trying to damage ships and salvage them. Or hey umm while I know the Klingons are helping you as well, you know romulan republic we did sort of like help you....ALOT.
No argument makes sense except game balance. And that is an argument I readily admit I have not enough knowledge to claim that the Federation needs battle cloaks.
People will always whine about what the other guy has. That's not the point I was making
The point I was making is that from Day 1 KDF ships were built for PVP where Fed ships were more geared to PVE. Some of this I believe is because the KDF had ZERO story line and were built as a PVP faction and not a separate race with it's own story and missions. Cloak, Battle Cloak, the Carrier were big deals in the Ques. If you were a PVP min/maxer KDF was the side to play period. Clearly some of this has changed.
The ability to field 3 carriers sharing heals or de-cloak and alpha strike are huge things in PVP hence the rise of the Fed Ball. I say this having PVP'd as both Fed and Klingon back in the day. The Klingons could pug with a very good chance of winning easily. The Feds could only do this if all the players were pvp vets and understood what to expect and how to counter which was fairly rare. Premades not with standing.
When the Galaxy X showed up you could get a great alpha off after de-cloaking though it turned like a pregnant water buffalo but that ability makes a difference.
This gave rise to the whinning and current state of KDF/FED ships. I don't PVP anymore but I hear the Romulans in different configs are now the Race/ships dejour. I have read a few KDF rants about why Romulans get battle cloak and they only get it on the BoP.
And I love it when people pretend they know what they're talking about when in fact they have no idea.
United States? ROFLMAO :P Are you for real?? :P
Admit it, you absolutely have no clue what the Federation is and what is suposed to represent, do you?
I stongly suggest you read the STO novel "The Needs of the Many".
It clearly establishes that the Federation stuck to its principles through the entirety of the conflict. In fact it is pointed out that Adm. Leytons attempted coup (see DS9) was a kind of "inoculation" (not my word) against other attempts to subvert Federation ideals.
It's also the "United Federation of Planets" and not the "United Federation of America".
And I live here and say that. Love my country, dislike my government.
R.I.P
Ummm I do not know what the federation is. Umm ok.
U.S.S. -> United Space Ship but lets face it, it was made in the US and name recongnition of United States Ship. Not FSS or Federation Space Ship.
Not saying it did not, however, as seen in TOS and Enterprise, they were working on a cloaking device.
Read the story lines for Section 31 in the game. I am extremely paraphrasing here but pretty much, I do not care for the rules, I am going to just get things done and who cares if it violates temporal rules. Section 31 is basically the "prinicpals" that allow the federation to do whatever it needs to do.
I never said it was the united federation of America, but if you think that its not heavily influenced by the United States and the US time period it was originally written in...here is a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
By the way I can look to history of many countries to see how principals are violated in war. Its not a US only thing.
I honestly agree with and support this idea. I'm not crying out that all of my fed ships should be armed with battle cloaks, no. I just think that ALL cloaks in the game should work when i hit the button, regardless of combat status. I don't care if they keep feds with a console or limited in capable ships, and i can really see the reasoning in buffing KDF and Rom versions more than the fed version, but as it is in canon, I should be able to activate my cloaks when ever i feel like it, as long as i'm prepared to deal with the consequences of dropping my shields. I've been wanting more advanced versions of Cloak as well to show a little more advancement in technologies as well, but i don't want that to take away from what opposing factions already have. The KDF and Romulan factions have had just as much time to enhance their cloaks, so why shouldn't their basic versions be better than something we saw almost two hundred years before?
I'm all for keeping things balanced between the factions, but just telling one side they can't have what several other factions are using left and right, just doesn't seem like it's really improving anything, including your own arguement. Instead of just telling the other side "No, you can't have it, because it's ours", why not start posting ideas that would actually benefit both sides, like Roach does?
He's not whining, he's not denying, He's just tossing out ideas to keep things fair and balanced. With how much the feds want better cloaks, it's going to happen eventually, the issue should really be more about how to keep it fair and balanced for everyone, rather than just throwing fits where no one wins.
As for the USA bits, and seeing how fast the Federation will toss its own rules out, i find that to be very true, there are numerous times the Federation climbed down from it's moral highground, and i seriously doubt that it wouldn't do so again.
Even in TOS, there are episodes where Kirk is flat out sent into steal a romulan cloak, just so they can see how it works. I've already mentioned Insurrection, and how badly that was handled. Even on the flip side, there are plenty of times, the crew would drop everything they supposedly believe, just to do what they feel is right: From breaking the prime directive, or the temporal directive, to just flat out killing some one. Section 31 alone is a good enough reason to not trust that the Federation wouldn't do anything crazy just to keep its people safe. I honestly can't believe that there aren't a few ships out there designed as war ships of the Federation, some of which would have cloak. Ships that gather intellegence, might have them as well, given that it would be too dangerous to go in exploring with the Enterprize.
The Romulans, Klingons, and Federation working together in the endgame alone is enough to make me think that the Treaty might be altered more than slightly, as long as it was to investigate the Dominion, or the Borg, or Voth. We even have a few personal cloak options for Federation Captains in ground combat as well, made with the express purpose of murderi... Rendering people unconcious...
If PvP balance is the big concern, i really don't know how it matters there either. The KDF can efficiently fight KDF or Romulans with no problems. There are ways around cloak in PvP that would help them there too. Plus someday...(in the distant future apparently) aren't they going to (supposedly) revamp PvP all together? If the feds could cloak on command, how would that really change anything?
They could still only do it on two ships at the moment. If they could do battle cloak, wouldn't the other factions get some kind of boost to their cloaks as well to balance it out? I would love getting a little more out of my BoP if i could, but i really don't see how this one tiny little thing (cloak on command, not Battle cloak as a whole) would really be as game breaking as some people seem to cry out. I was under the impression that the game was already heavily broken against the Klingons in the first place, though i do like that Cryptic is working on it, i can see that it's clearly all about money to them, and most of said money comes from the Federation players. More so since, much to my dismay, the romulans aren't even a real faction.
Sorry, i got a little ranty there, but at the same time, i really can't see why so many people argue against something like this, instead of throwing out ways to make the game better or more canon over all. There are a million ways to make the cloak better, and we're only delaying that by fighting.
I personally would love it if all default, basic cloaks were battle cloaks. That's canon. That's how they worked in enterprise, tos, tng, ds9, voy, and any of the films. You push a button and you become invisible. All basic cloaks should be able to do that.
Klingon and Romulan cloaks should be a standard ship function, while the feds still need to use a console, or better yet, make them all a console (adding a cloak slot to ships as needed) so that we can get better versions, like warp cores. That would still limit the number of ships on the fed side that can use them.
From there, Klingons could get Battle cloak, which would be upgraded to fire torps while cloaked, making the C-Store version a better version or adding synergy to make it still viable.
Since KDF Battle cloak would be offensive, Romulan Battle Cloak could be Defensive, making it more difficult to detect, or offering slight shielding or defensive buffing, to make it more inline with the Scimitar's advanced cloak, without devaluing the store bought ship.
Federation wouldn't really get a Battle Cloak as described in the above, but instead just go from Basic to Advanced at endgame. Either through the rep or what not, they would get the Phase Cloak. It's a thing, it's canon, and even the Voth are using it in game, so it's already out there.
The Scimitar already Gives the Romulans their advanced cloak, and it seems pretty BA at the moment, but i'm not sure what would be a great Advanced Cloak for Klingons. There's the obvious Weapons fire cloak from all good things, but i still like the idea of having something a little more tactical, like a cloaking field, where you can hide non cloaking ships, or a bunch of mines, or things of that nature.
I really do feel that the game should be showing cloak as having advanced with the times and technology, and not actually limiting it to pre-canon existance for the playable factions. As others have been stating though, Keeping it balanced as well as fun, should clearly be the key thing. I would also be curious to see ideas from others about how to make cloaking better as a whole, than just arguing against each other in a downward spiral.
I'm laughing at that thread. People seriously have the nerve to complain about the Avenger, a ship that outperforms pretty much everything the KDF has in that classification (except for a cloak, which will cost them a console to use)? The bloody thing has a 50 inertia rating, for Kahless' sake. Everything else about it is battlecruiser-spec, except for that.
The Romulan shuttle only has a normal cloak that can't be engaged during Red Alert
Tal Shiar Adapted ships don't have battle cloaks or singularities. This appear to be a deliberate design decision to prevent singularity abilities and battlecloaking from being shared across factions since Lobi ships are available to all.
Actually your response is ridiculous, disrespectful to others and shows you don't understand what Star Trek is about. Therefore we can disregard it.