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Starship Stealth Skill: One of the worst value skills available.
ussultimatum
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
The Stealth skill is one of the worst value skills in the entire game.
Just take a moment to compare what stealth grants (a tiny amount of stealth) vs. what the opposing skill (Starship Sensors) does:
> Increases Stealth Detection Rating (SDR).
> Increases the Stealth Sight portion of Sensor Scan.
> Increases the Stealth debuff of Sensor Scan on enemy targets.
> Increases the Stealth debuff from FOMM.
> Grants resistance vs. Scrambles/Jam Sensors/Placates (Roughly -50% duration for 9 ranks).
The cost to benefit ratio for these two technically opposing skills are way, way off.
Some suggestions:
1) The values should be adjusted to be a better defense vs. buffed SDR.
2) Ranks in Stealth should grant resistance to powers that debuff stealth (APB, APD, Sensor Scan, etc) similar to the scaling for PI, ID and SS (i.e. 50% at 9 ranks).
Just take a moment to compare what stealth grants (a tiny amount of stealth) vs. what the opposing skill (Starship Sensors) does:
> Increases Stealth Detection Rating (SDR).
> Increases the Stealth Sight portion of Sensor Scan.
> Increases the Stealth debuff of Sensor Scan on enemy targets.
> Increases the Stealth debuff from FOMM.
> Grants resistance vs. Scrambles/Jam Sensors/Placates (Roughly -50% duration for 9 ranks).
The cost to benefit ratio for these two technically opposing skills are way, way off.
Some suggestions:
1) The values should be adjusted to be a better defense vs. buffed SDR.
2) Ranks in Stealth should grant resistance to powers that debuff stealth (APB, APD, Sensor Scan, etc) similar to the scaling for PI, ID and SS (i.e. 50% at 9 ranks).
Post edited by ussultimatum on
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You might also want to say mask energy signature needs a look at too with this. Right now that skill is used even less than photonics officer and most people don't even know it exists.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Skill:_Starship_Threat_Control
Personally I think the starship stealth skill should have some additional effects - make your ship harder to hit (like an extra defense/maneuvers/evasion skill), increase the damage bonus and damage bonus duration when dropping out of stealth, and provide a damage resistance buff when entering/exiting stealth to counter the loss of shields.
Honestly, Mask Energy Signature needs to disable a player's weapons with a tradeoff allowing the ability to be activated in combat.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
That's a pretty nifty suggestion.
a rom is a little trickier due to the boff trait they can get, but its still a very bad idea to get within 7-8k of that same toon, or under 10 when SS is up.
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This pretty sums up what is wrong with the skill and the BOFFs.
It also highlights that you can make a dedicated snoop build that will effectively snoop out Roms, but that same build is so massively overpowered vs. KDF cloaks.
Which is a really unfair situation for BoPs.
Boosting the skill itself, which everyone has access to, and reducing outside sources could help normalize what is currently lopsided.
Romulan Captain Romulan +150 Starship Stealth
Reman Captain Infiltrator +150 Starship Stealth
Nausicaan Captain Pirate* +150 Starship Stealth
Romulan/Reman BOFF Subterfuge +150 Starship Stealth
Reman BOFF Superior Infiltrator +200 Starship Stealth
Nausicaan BOFF Pirate +150 Starship Stealth
*The info still says +Perception, but even the S8 patch notes which state a fix for it list it as a +Stealth bonus and not a +Perception bonus. If you look at the Stats Space Skills though on a new toon, it shows +150 Starship Stealth.
The above are +Starship Stealth bonuses and not +Stealth Value bonuses. That means each is providing half the listed bonus to Stealth Value. That's based on a March 8th post from Bort, but those numbers don't quite seem to match up.
Base Stealth: 4925
50 Aux: 4975
Fresh Rom toon (+150 Starship Stealth): 5105 Stealth on Cloak
Expected Stealth on Cloak? 5050
There's +55 Stealth coming from somewhere...perhaps a bonus for a Rom ship? Meh, don't recall. But anyway...
I don't agree with how Cryptic has those stacking now. I definitely agree that you shouldn't have been able to have a Romulan/Reman Captain with 5x Sub/Sup Infil to get +1900 Starship Stealth (or +950 Stealth Value)...heh, that would be ridiculous.
However...the Captain Trait should stack with any BOFF Trait. If you've got the Captain, you should get that bonus regardless of what BOFFs you've got. The individual BOFF Traits should stack with different BOFF Traits. No, not 5x blahblahblah...but if you've got a Nausicaan and a Reman, then you should get the bonuses from them. Heck, with the way things changed - does the Sub & Sup Infil even stack? I no longer have any Reman BOFFs...since my Captain's a Reman. Guess I could roll an Alien Rom and mail them a Reman to look...meh, but anyway...
Captain +150 Starship Stealth
Reman BOFF +350 Starship Stealth (Sub/Sup Infil)
Nausicaan BOFF +150 Starship Stealth
That would be +650 Starship Stealth or +325 Stealth Value. Added to the base of 4975 (@50 Aux), you'd be looking at 5300 Stealth Value.
Base Perception is 5000. So folks would jump in - oh Hell no! Even going with Base Perception at 50 Aux on a Sci...you're looking at 5030 Perception. @125 Aux on a Sci, you're looking at 5075 Perception. You're still in the hole for 225 Perception to see them at 0km.
What have you done though? They've selected a Faction and Species for the Captain. They've slotted three specific BOFFs. On top of that, at 5 pips of Singularity Charge they're looking at -400 Stealth Value. Yeah, Stealth Value...so that 5300 guy is at 4900 now and you can see him at over 3km without doing anything.
So grab a Deflector, have a Sci with Sensor Scan, grab EPtA, grab TDF or TDG...etc, etc, etc. It should take some effort...like it takes them some effort - there should be investment and a reasonable expectation of a return on it.
Which gets back to the Starship Stealth vs. Starship Sensors...outside of what's been mentioned, there's this:
9 Starship Stealth...99 Starship Stealth is +49.5 Stealth Value.
9 Starship Sensors...99 Starship Sensors is:
@50 Aux (non-Sci Vessel) +19.9 Perception
@125 Aux (non-Sci Vessel) +49.75 Perception
@50 Aux (Sci Vessel) +59.7 Perception
@125 Aux (Sci Vessel) +149.25 Perception
So even putting the other stuff aside, how is it fair to ask the person to invest in Stealth in the same manner as the person does Sensors?
Too many non-Sci Captains in non-Sci Vessels complained that they couldn't see everything without putting in any damn effort...and per the usual...Cryptic listened to those not wishing to put any effort in.
Why not simply nerf the bonus boffs (subterfuge) gave by half, thus giving you 50-75 stealth value per boff which is what? 0.5-0.75km closer per boff? Seems like a reasonable trade off for having it stack sliightly higher but not OP.
Then stick the amount of stealth given by the skill that you put points in as being +200 with 9 points, in other words doubling the stealth value given by the stealth skill (you can even do a stealth update of it) thus making it more relevant.
Still MES needs a buff, unfortunately with all these boffs my romulan could use it like a cloak and get good use out of it but would never need to, while my fed sci can't get good use out of it but could really do with it for getting out of a heated situation.
Perhaps boosting Mask Energy Signicture might be an idea?
MES1 4800
MES2 4900
MES3 5000
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
That's the thing...the +150 Stealth they give is Starship Stealth, so you're only getting +75 Stealth Value from them anyway.
Borg probes shoot at me from 8k
Starship Sensors also buffs the stealth debuff from FOMM.
Yeah, with the boost the Borg got...it's kind of twisted getting shot at.
Still, nerf em to 100 and let them stack. Max bonus you could get from subterfuge would be 600 which is 300 stealth value, hardly game breaking.
Nerf sup infiltrator down to 100 too so that max you get with reman crew is 1200 which is 600 stealth value which I think is fair given you lack the bonus to crits etc from the roms.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Noted. I'll add it to the OP, thanks mimey.
MES just shouldn't mimic cloak at all. It's not a cloak, so don't treat it like one. What it should do is boost the defense stat at the cost of something else while it is active, like weapons power.
I believe it already does that except you can't use MES in combat and people can see you 3 miles away still.
I know I tried it once...then decided it was completely worthless as both a cloak and defensive ability with a power drop to boot. Still you keep shields which is ok.
They should make it similar to the photonics decoy console with it properly cloaking you for 4/6/8s and a defence bonus to boot.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
ECM = Electronic Countermeasures
ECCM = Electronic Counter-Countermeasures
EPM = Electronic Protective Measures
Making it very classic Starfleet Command or Starfleet Battles type of skill. Something, IMO, this game lacks in ship combat strategy.
Mask Energy Signature shields the energy output of your starship, making it more difficult for enemies to target you. Maintaining this ability drains some power from your weapon, shield, and engine systems. Firing weapons will render you able to be targeted for 5 seconds.
Rank I:
+4755 Stealth
-20 Weapon/Shield/Engine Power
+30% Defense for 5 seconds after masking is disabled
Rank II:
+4855 Stealth
-20 Weapon/Shield/Engine Power
+30% Defense for 5 seconds after masking is disabled
Rank III:
+4955 Stealth
-20 Weapon/Shield/Engine Power
+30% Defense for 5 seconds after masking is disabled
Counters: Stealth counters and PBAoE
Other ships will still be able to track you visually, but they cannot target you unless they have adequate SDR at a given range or you fire your weapons. In a PvP match, your enemies would lose track of your ship while fighting your allies, which would give you the opportunity to flank.
This is, IMHO, how MES should work. This is also how MEF on the Adapted MACO set should work as well.
Not really, considering warbirds when gaining sing charge does degrade their stealth some, as for bop's they never need worry about this issue because of a M/AM warpcore.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
mmm interestig thread.
The only thing that I would add to this skill is:
-Doubles the Decloak Damage Bonus given by Cloak and Battle Cloak over 9 ranks.
This would be enough for ROM and KDF players to spend points in this skill
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