Ummm, purple (although by your mislogic that's red & green), there's also two differing shades of blue used for weapons fire. And if I actually looked up the weapon types, I'd post the other colours, but not really going to go through that kind of effort, lol.
Otay Mr FlexesRGBskill :P
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
You know there may be much more fuss involving vote kicks than there will be from afk/leaver penalties combined? I can fantasize a couple things to go wrong already (of course these are far fetched worse-cases): an elitist team of four not using the custom game lobby and kicking the 4th w/e prejudice, or one guy who manipulates three members just to get rid of one guy. Yeees these are just fantasizes, but If you think of all the things to go wrong just because some snob (doesn't have to be a snob, by the way), then I'd be surprised if your stomach didn't turn, or get accommodated by butterflies.
I didn't reply to this portion of your quote since it's clearly a troll attempt. Anyone with half a brain can make the distinction between the two.
You went with this the moment you deplorably stated that victims are complicity at fault. That wasn't my doing, that was you -- my comment was an analogy used to incite logical thought. But I can see why you would want to avoid this when there is no reason or logic to your process. I don't really care what opinion you have over my comments, so pardon me while I state the obvious whether you like it or not.
How is it anyone's fault other than your own if you're unable to put together 4 other competent, like minded people to run your own matches? There are a myriad of tools available to you both in and out of game to socialize, make connections and add to your friends list. If you're unwilling to do that, it's your problem.
Ummm play time is #1. When I'm playing at midnight, not many people seem to understand English -- admittedly I type it myself halfassed sometimes. But to that, it seems to be a problem for a LOT of other people as well, you know -- being online when a hand-picked fleet is online 100% of the time.
But other than that, taking a break from the monotonous and venturing out to play with others, make new friends, in a pug, how is this a bad thing exactly? How is this "ASKING" to be trolled?
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
This oddly and terrifyingly reminds me once of a guy that was trying to explain how a woman being taken advantage of was her fault for being in the wrong place. I sure hope this wasn't the logic you're trying to go with.
The problem is, when someone with the name of USS Skittles, in the level 1 ship, shooting every CANNON color out there, is not my fault -- it is a troll and I shouldn't be penalized for choosing NOT to be trolled.
Yeah, no, it doesn't remind you of that, unless you are attempting to say that "mildly annoyed by a jerk in a video game" is a violation of your right to safety public place in the same way as sexual assault.
Also: the fact that you felt trolled, doesn't mean that you actually WERE trolled. Maybe the person was trying to be funny, not a jerk? Maybe that player was trying to challenge himself by seeing if he could contribute meaningfully with a sub-par build? Maybe he was trying to give you a chance to feel elite and special by not soloing the match? You don't know, which is why reacting based on your emotional outrage is nothing more than self-serving childish entitlement.
And as I said, I've seen it, have screenshots of it, and reported it to PWE. The problem is, that mess happens, and instead of acknowledging it, you'd rather call it trollish to avoid reality and the gravity of it. The fact is, this behavior stops the moment groups are able to vote by majority to remove a player at their behest. Also, this has other side-effects both good and bad. While it can be abused, it likely won't because it establishes a social justice system.
But, for the record let me state very clearly one thing you seem to be forgetting, you also DO NOT have the right to to punish others with a leaver penalty for opting not to put up with your BS. And that's a fact.
The person who "trolls" you isn't the one inflicting the punishment. Arguably, the punishment comes from either you (for choosing to take your ball and go home, rather than deal with a minor annoyance), or from Cryptic (for daring to attempt to make you deal with the dirty public when you sign up for the public queues).
To be clear - yes, I am not acknowledging the "gravity" of being teamed in a PUG with someone who built an intentionally bad build, because it is not a big deal at all. It's not like being abused in chat with offensive language. It's not like having someone actively TRIBBLE up the mission so you fail. It's not even as bad as having an AFKer (which I also have never felt was a big deal). The fact is, you want to both have the convenience of the public queues without the "drawbacks" of dealing with the public. That's ridiculous - and if having absolute control over who you team with or what kind of behaviors you witness is so important to you, then use a private match.
I don't care that you think being "trolled" that way is a big deal, and I don't care that you feel like being told that you have to take the good with the bad in the public queues makes you feel like your feelings don't matter to me, because they don't. You don't matter to me at all, in the same way that the feelings of those you seek to judge and avoid evidently don't matter to you. I suspect, given how thin your skin seems to be, you are often reading "trollish" intent where none exists.
So, again, if you feel the need to have a system to enforce your interpretation of social justice on players who are having wrongbadfun, I feel the need for a system to enforce my standards of discourse on forumites who have wrongbadthoughts.
Okay, to actually weigh in on the topic of vote-kicking trolls and kicking players in Mirandas using skittle boats...
Can we accept and agree upon the idea that AFK Players and trolls who are Vice Admiral but show up in the public queues in TOS Connies and Mirandas are separate problems?
Both AFK Players and the players lordlalo describe are indeed very real problems. I'm not going to say a Vice Admiral in a Miranda doing No Win Scenario is not a problem (even with the reasoning that that person is playing the game their own way).
But they are separate problems. Instead of lumping both types of players together and trying to go over them both with a broad stroke of the penalty brush, is it possible to say that maybe they both need different solutions?
For instance, in the same way shuttles are flagged from entering STFs (or other publically queued maps), could we say that with the proper coding and programming, that a player can not enter a public queue in anything other than their highest tier ship?
Vice Admirals can't queue up in anything other than T5 and Fleet ships, etc.
There's still the problem of Lt. Cmdr.'s queueing up in Connies, Novas, and Saber's, but at least they're in the current tier ship for their level.
From what I know it's not currently possible to do that, since maps are either flagged for small craft or large craft. But if it was possible to take it one step further and limit participation in the current tier ship for public maps, I'd say that would be an equally effective solution for trolls showing up in Mirandas when they're Vice Admirals.
You're still not getting it. Form your own team and you'll never have to deal with skittle boats. The only reason you feel like you're being punished is because you didn't take the time to make your own group.
I pretty much agree with this. The only time someone should feel "trolled" in a FA/STF, is if the person is actively insulting others, and/or purposely screws things up. Like blowing generators before the cube, in ISE, or blowing cubes early in CSE. Someone who brings in an "under-geared" ship, well hell, people are ALWAYS complaining that even the ESTF's are way too easy, guess someone decided to do something about it on their own, and wanted to see if they could do it, in such an early-game ship. And further, wants to see if people can adapt to having that type of ship amongst their complement.
I still say the griefer & leecher are more problematic, than someone deciding to use something off the wall. But I'll take you up on that idea....if you don't show up in an ESTF in whatever ship I decide is appropriate, with a weapons loadout that again, I feel is appropriate, then I think you are trolling others.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Yeah, no, it doesn't remind you of that, unless you are attempting to say that "mildly annoyed by a jerk in a video game" is a violation of your right to safety public place in the same way as sexual assault.
Also: the fact that you felt trolled, doesn't mean that you actually WERE trolled. Maybe the person was trying to be funny, not a jerk? Maybe that player was trying to challenge himself by seeing if he could contribute meaningfully with a sub-par build? Maybe he was trying to give you a chance to feel elite and special by not soloing the match? You don't know, which is why reacting based on your emotional outrage is nothing more than self-serving childish entitlement.
The person who "trolls" you isn't the one inflicting the punishment. Arguably, the punishment comes from either you (for choosing to take your ball and go home, rather than deal with a minor annoyance), or from Cryptic (for daring to attempt to make you deal with the dirty public when you sign up for the public queues).
To be clear - yes, I am not acknowledging the "gravity" of being teamed in a PUG with someone who built an intentionally bad build, because it is not a big deal at all. It's not like being abused in chat with offensive language. It's not like having someone actively TRIBBLE up the mission so you fail. It's not even as bad as having an AFKer (which I also have never felt was a big deal). The fact is, you want to both have the convenience of the public queues without the "drawbacks" of dealing with the public. That's ridiculous - and if having absolute control over who you team with or what kind of behaviors you witness is so important to you, then use a private match.
I don't care that you think being "trolled" that way is a big deal, and I don't care that you feel like being told that you have to take the good with the bad in the public queues makes you feel like your feelings don't matter to me, because they don't. You don't matter to me at all, in the same way that the feelings of those you seek to judge and avoid evidently don't matter to you. I suspect, given how thin your skin seems to be, you are often reading "trollish" intent where none exists.
So, again, if you feel the need to have a system to enforce your interpretation of social justice on players who are having wrongbadfun, I feel the need for a system to enforce my standards of discourse on forumites who have wrongbadthoughts.
LOL, everyone gets a free ship every 10 levels. You can't complete content (especially the episode that GRANTS access to eSTFs) in the Miranda. If you bring that ship in ANY ELITE STF, you are 100% trolling. There is no doubt, so don't even try these frivolous attempts to create it.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
The fact that you want to even try and compare a terrible real life crime to an imagined slight in a video game is disgusting. Good day to you.
Yes, how dare I create an analogy to relate your skewed logic to real world issues. Shame on me!
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
You're still not getting it. Form your own team and you'll never have to deal with skittle boats. The only reason you feel like you're being punished is because you didn't take the time to make your own group.
I get it fine AND I am not arguing against your point. Stop acting superior. The point is that those players should not be punished because of another players actions. If the game slaps together you and four other players and those other players cannot even break 1k dps, you shouldn't be punished a second time for leaving the group(the first time was being put in a group like that to begin with). They could take steps to address this, but the answer from them and people like yourself has always been one of snobbish righteousness that it is somehow the players fault for using a tool put in the game by the games developers.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Yes, shame on you. You're using rampant emotionalism, rather than any kind of logic.
Ok, I'll bite. Lets step it down a notch then shall we?
Lets try something familiar to all the 15+ year old's -- Driving. Are you saying that by driving a car you are asking to be killed in an accident?
I know, how dare you relate this to anything life-or-death or a crime. So lets go into commerce then. So you're saying that by not using Carfax, checking the oil, engine, etc, people buying cars deserve to get ripped off? Please be sure to tell that member of your family that is older and has no knowledge of auto-mechanics this, maybe they'll do what I want and plant one in your teeth.
Oh I know, "but its still a real situation!", Ok then, lets step it down again into something more familiar and genre specific, a GAME -- football. Are you saying that a team that scores a touchdown is asking for the other team to start a field-riot?
You see, with logic, no matter how it is applied, the end result is always the same, regardless of its severity which I've just proven, and the great thing about logic is, no matter your futile attempts, you can never best it, only troll it.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I get it fine AND I am not arguing against your point. Stop acting superior. The point is that those players should not be punished because of another players actions. If the game slaps together you and four other players and those other players cannot even break 1k dps, you shouldn't be punished a second time for leaving the group(the first time was being put in a group like that to begin with). They could take steps to address this, but the answer from them and people like yourself has always been one of snobbish righteousness that it is somehow the players fault for using a tool put in the game by the games developers.
Actually, the entire time, you have been arguing against this point. As in, "How dare someone else play in something other than what I FEEL is appropriate?!?"
Now, yes, could there be better matchmaking? Most likely. I'll not argue against that. However, as it stands that is not in place, so it's basically, the first 5 people (for any of the STF/ESTFs) that queue up, get lumped together. If you don't like that premise, don't use that particular tool. Kind of the same thing, as in, if you want a Ford, you don't go to a Chevy dealer. If you want to make sure of what your fellow teammates are going to be using, advertise that you're putting together a private match. Join one of the STF channels, there's probably like 10 or so out there that people do private matches through. The tools are there for you to avoid being teamed with someone who's not necessarily "up to your standards", on what they're flying, and using for equipment. And that also avoids getting the person who's new, and just learning the STF's.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
LOL, everyone gets a free ship every 10 levels. You can't complete content (especially the episode that GRANTS access to eSTFs) in the Miranda. If you bring that ship in ANY ELITE STF, you are 100% trolling. There is no doubt, so don't even try these frivolous attempts to create it.
Uh, I absolutely can complete any PvE mission in the game in a Miranda, and I have often done so for fun. If you are unable to do so, I find your lack of skill so incomprehensible that the only explanation I can think of for it is that you are actually an Andy Kauffman level performance art troll. Sure, I can't back that up, but then evidently assumptions about intent are sufficient for you, so why not for me?
Again, your problem is your assumption that you have some sort of absolute right to never have your feelings tussled in a public place in a public game. You don't have that right, and nobody, not even you, should care about this kind of minor irritation. The fact that you do shows that you have no sense of perspective or proportion (as does you attempting to justify equating mild internet trolling with sexual assault).
You see, with logic, no matter how it is applied, the end result is always the same, regardless of its severity which I've just proven, and the great thing about logic is, no matter your futile attempts, you can never best it, only troll it.
A) All animals with fur are cats. Picture of a dog.
Conclusion: This animal has fur, therefore it is a cat.
Bad premises = bad conclusions. But it's the logical conclusion.
Uh, I absolutely can complete any PvE mission in the game in a Miranda, and I have often done so for fun. If you are unable to do so, I find your lack of skill so incomprehensible that the only explanation I can think of for it is that you are actually an Andy Kauffman level performance art troll. Sure, I can't back that up, but then evidently assumptions about intent are sufficient for you, so why not for me?
Again, your problem is your assumption that you have some sort of absolute right to never have your feelings tussled in a public place in a public game. You don't have that right, and nobody, not even you, should care about this kind of minor irritation. The fact that you do shows that you have no sense of perspective or proportion (as does you attempting to justify equating mild internet trolling with sexual assault).
Sorry, but I need video of it, because I find even level 9 content to be "ugh" with all the waiting to turn. I mean, this would be a darn achievement in of itself, especailly for this newb player as the premise. So I find it surprising there are no youtube videos of it.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Ok, I'll bite. Lets step it down a notch then shall we?
Lets go into commerce then. So you're saying that by not using Carfax, checking the oil, engine, etc, people buying cars deserve to get ripped off? Please be sure to tell that member of your family that is older and has no knowledge of auto-mechanics this, maybe they'll do what I want and plant one in your teeth.
Is that still too severe? Ok, lets step it down again into something more familiar, a GAME -- football. Are you saying that a team that scores a touchdown is asking for the other team to start a field-riot?
You see, with logic, no matter how it is applied, the end result is always the same, regardless of its severity which I've just proven, and the great thing about logic is, no matter your futile attempts, you can never best it, only troll it.
To reply to the first part: Bring along another person that DOES know about mechanics. Do a test-drive. Look under the hood. Talk to the seller. There's a huge number of things that can be done to avoid getting ripped-off in that situation. And yes, someone who just looks at the vehicle, and buys it, is a moron, and yes, deserves to be ripped off. Even when I am the one selling a vehicle, I will tell the person, "Hey, if you want, I'll pop the hood, let's go for a test drive..." etc etc, so that way, they can feel assured as to whether the vehicle is worth it to them. And about the getting decked because of that notion, lol. Good luck to that one....
Ok, 2>How is one team scoring a, related to the other team feeling they are justified in starting ANY kind of fight? Sheesh, that's just acting worse than a 2 year old, the team that scored, to use MMO parlance, should feel trolled. So I guess to styay with this anaolgy, the one flying the ship YOU feel is inappropriate, should feel trolled by YOU, for you not flying what they want you to be in, hmm?
And by the way, I'm pretty much a master of logic, doing tons of reading, actually listening/reading what other people say, and watching what they do, is a great way to learn this skill, as well, as any number of other avenues to advance your ability to be logical, rather than be emotional about a subject.
At WORST, someone coming in a ship YOU feel is inappropriate, in a public venue, can be likened to someone deciding to talk about a subject you don't like, or wearing something you didn't feel was appropriate to that gathering. That is all. Nothing worse. And in a public venue, YOU do not get to decide what others get to talk about, or wear, unless it is something restricted by law. To translate that into this game, as long as the system allows for whatever kind of ships & equipment to be brought into an ESTF or any other Fleet Action, then they are JUST AS VALID, as what you have chosen to bring. Now, when the system is changed, to restrict what ships can be brought, or equipment can be used, and someone manages to get around it, possibly by, say, hacking, or a bug, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you feel trolled. Otherwise, it's just merely YOUR opinion on what you feel is appropriate, and as such, you know what they say about opinions...everyone has one, and they all stink.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
A) All animals with fur are cats. Picture of a dog.
Conclusion: This animal has fur, therefore it is a cat.
Bad premises = bad conclusions. But it's the logical conclusion.
Actually, that would fall into Venn (spelling) diagramming. As in, One is a subset of another. However, they basic premis you have chosen for A, is indeed, false, so thus invalidates the whole line of reasoning, lol.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
A) All animals with fur are cats. Picture of a dog.
Conclusion: This animal has fur, therefore it is a cat.
Bad premises = bad conclusions. But it's the logical conclusion.
And you have failed logic. Starting the logic with "All ..." creates a self-serving fallacy that you then exploit meaning you really do not have any grasp on logic itself.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Actually, that would fall into Venn (spelling) diagramming. As in, One is a subset of another. However, they basic premis you have chosen for A, is indeed, false, so thus invalidates the whole line of reasoning, lol.
So do Strawman, Red Herrings, and Ad Hominems. :-P I was hoping someone would say that! *Cheers* Just my lead-in.
And you have failed logic. Starting the logic with "All ..." creates a self-serving fallacy that you then exploit meaning you really do not have any grasp on logic itself.
Not at all, sir. Your use of Red Herrings and Strawmen long ago debased your arguments. Continue.
I do a vast amount of soloing so I don't really understand what the problem is with "rainbow" ships.
I personally don't deliberately slot one of each type weapon but there are occasions when I can't get my weapon of choice of the right Mk/level so I substitute for another of the right Mk/level.
Another thing I fully intend to use that 360 anti-proton beam in an aft weapon slot instead of a cannon turret regardless of what my main weapons will be.
Actually, I wish like hell, they'd have a choice of both beam turrets, and cannon turrets to begin with.
But, yeah, when my characters first make 5-0, yeah, my weapons loadout may not be all Mk XI/XII, some may be X still, and they may not all be matched either. As someone who doesn't buy gear off the exchange, and pretty much utilizes only drops, supplemented by the odd useful item/weapon out of my fleet's bank, I use what I can get a hold of.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Lets go into commerce then. So you're saying that by not using Carfax, checking the oil, engine, etc, people buying cars deserve to get ripped off? Please be sure to tell that member of your family that is older and has no knowledge of auto-mechanics this, maybe they'll do what I want and plant one in your teeth.
First, if someone knows there is a risk of getting ripped off, and nevertheless takes NO action to prevent it, then yeah, they probably deserve it. Now, you are going to say that this proves that I am blaming the victim. And in this case, I am. This is because I am capable of telling the difference between a reasonable and unreasonable set of circumstances. If I sell you something that I know is not worth what you paid for it, it might make me a jerk. It only becomes my fault if I knowingly misrepresented the item to you. If you didn't do your due diligence and only after the fact found out that you overpaid, or whatever, well, that's really on you.
Note an important distinction - sometimes, at least under US law (which I am NOT asserting holds everywhere, or should be a perfect model, to be clear), a victim does, in fact, have an affirmative responsibility to take reasonable precautions, but not always. There is NO affirmative responsibility to, say, avoid being sexually assaulted, which is why your original analogy, aside from being offensive, was also deeply flawed. On the other hand, when the stakes are low, and there are reasonable ways for a victim to protect him/her self (as in the case of buying a car, or PUGing in STO), then yeah, the victim can be held accountable (at least in part) as well.
Good job wishing injury on someone whose only crime was being a better person than you, though.
You see, with logic, no matter how it is applied, the end result is always the same, regardless of its severity which I've just proven, and the great thing about logic is, no matter your futile attempts, you can never best it, only troll it.
Quick! Someone get Alanis Morissette in here so she can see what irony really is!
To reply to the first part: Bring along another person that DOES know about mechanics. Do a test-drive. Look under the hood. Talk to the seller. There's a huge number of things that can be done to avoid getting ripped-off in that situation. And yes, someone who just looks at the vehicle, and buys it, is a moron, and yes, deserves to be ripped off. Even when I am the one selling a vehicle, I will tell the person, "Hey, if you want, I'll pop the hood, let's go for a test drive..." etc etc, so that way, they can feel assured as to whether the vehicle is worth it to them. And about the getting decked because of that notion, lol. Good luck to that one....
Ok, 2>How is one team scoring a, related to the other team feeling they are justified in starting ANY kind of fight? Sheesh, that's just acting worse than a 2 year old, the team that scored, to use MMO parlance, should feel trolled. So I guess to styay with this anaolgy, the one flying the ship YOU feel is inappropriate, should feel trolled by YOU, for you not flying what they want you to be in, hmm?
And by the way, I'm pretty much a master of logic, doing tons of reading, actually listening/reading what other people say, and watching what they do, is a great way to learn this skill, as well, as any number of other avenues to advance your ability to be logical, rather than be emotional about a subject.
At WORST, someone coming in a ship YOU feel is inappropriate, in a public venue, can be likened to someone deciding to talk about a subject you don't like, or wearing something you didn't feel was appropriate to that gathering. That is all. Nothing worse. And in a public venue, YOU do not get to decide what others get to talk about, or wear, unless it is something restricted by law. To translate that into this game, as long as the system allows for whatever kind of ships & equipment to be brought into an ESTF or any other Fleet Action, then they are JUST AS VALID, as what you have chosen to bring. Now, when the system is changed, to restrict what ships can be brought, or equipment can be used, and someone manages to get around it, possibly by, say, hacking, or a bug, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you feel trolled. Otherwise, it's just merely YOUR opinion on what you feel is appropriate, and as such, you know what they say about opinions...everyone has one, and they all stink.
The first part I'm still trying to recover from the "wow" factor, especially considering people that either don't know about mechanics and have no one else to trust and rely on.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I notice, that you chose not to respond to the third part, lordlalo.
Yes, sorry, I was still wowing and loling.
It doesn't follow logic still, but please do try and explain how it does.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Comments
Otay Mr FlexesRGBskill :P
You went with this the moment you deplorably stated that victims are complicity at fault. That wasn't my doing, that was you -- my comment was an analogy used to incite logical thought. But I can see why you would want to avoid this when there is no reason or logic to your process. I don't really care what opinion you have over my comments, so pardon me while I state the obvious whether you like it or not.
Ummm play time is #1. When I'm playing at midnight, not many people seem to understand English -- admittedly I type it myself halfassed sometimes. But to that, it seems to be a problem for a LOT of other people as well, you know -- being online when a hand-picked fleet is online 100% of the time.
But other than that, taking a break from the monotonous and venturing out to play with others, make new friends, in a pug, how is this a bad thing exactly? How is this "ASKING" to be trolled?
Yeah, no, it doesn't remind you of that, unless you are attempting to say that "mildly annoyed by a jerk in a video game" is a violation of your right to safety public place in the same way as sexual assault.
Also: the fact that you felt trolled, doesn't mean that you actually WERE trolled. Maybe the person was trying to be funny, not a jerk? Maybe that player was trying to challenge himself by seeing if he could contribute meaningfully with a sub-par build? Maybe he was trying to give you a chance to feel elite and special by not soloing the match? You don't know, which is why reacting based on your emotional outrage is nothing more than self-serving childish entitlement.
The person who "trolls" you isn't the one inflicting the punishment. Arguably, the punishment comes from either you (for choosing to take your ball and go home, rather than deal with a minor annoyance), or from Cryptic (for daring to attempt to make you deal with the dirty public when you sign up for the public queues).
To be clear - yes, I am not acknowledging the "gravity" of being teamed in a PUG with someone who built an intentionally bad build, because it is not a big deal at all. It's not like being abused in chat with offensive language. It's not like having someone actively TRIBBLE up the mission so you fail. It's not even as bad as having an AFKer (which I also have never felt was a big deal). The fact is, you want to both have the convenience of the public queues without the "drawbacks" of dealing with the public. That's ridiculous - and if having absolute control over who you team with or what kind of behaviors you witness is so important to you, then use a private match.
I don't care that you think being "trolled" that way is a big deal, and I don't care that you feel like being told that you have to take the good with the bad in the public queues makes you feel like your feelings don't matter to me, because they don't. You don't matter to me at all, in the same way that the feelings of those you seek to judge and avoid evidently don't matter to you. I suspect, given how thin your skin seems to be, you are often reading "trollish" intent where none exists.
So, again, if you feel the need to have a system to enforce your interpretation of social justice on players who are having wrongbadfun, I feel the need for a system to enforce my standards of discourse on forumites who have wrongbadthoughts.
Can we accept and agree upon the idea that AFK Players and trolls who are Vice Admiral but show up in the public queues in TOS Connies and Mirandas are separate problems?
Both AFK Players and the players lordlalo describe are indeed very real problems. I'm not going to say a Vice Admiral in a Miranda doing No Win Scenario is not a problem (even with the reasoning that that person is playing the game their own way).
But they are separate problems. Instead of lumping both types of players together and trying to go over them both with a broad stroke of the penalty brush, is it possible to say that maybe they both need different solutions?
For instance, in the same way shuttles are flagged from entering STFs (or other publically queued maps), could we say that with the proper coding and programming, that a player can not enter a public queue in anything other than their highest tier ship?
Vice Admirals can't queue up in anything other than T5 and Fleet ships, etc.
There's still the problem of Lt. Cmdr.'s queueing up in Connies, Novas, and Saber's, but at least they're in the current tier ship for their level.
From what I know it's not currently possible to do that, since maps are either flagged for small craft or large craft. But if it was possible to take it one step further and limit participation in the current tier ship for public maps, I'd say that would be an equally effective solution for trolls showing up in Mirandas when they're Vice Admirals.
I pretty much agree with this. The only time someone should feel "trolled" in a FA/STF, is if the person is actively insulting others, and/or purposely screws things up. Like blowing generators before the cube, in ISE, or blowing cubes early in CSE. Someone who brings in an "under-geared" ship, well hell, people are ALWAYS complaining that even the ESTF's are way too easy, guess someone decided to do something about it on their own, and wanted to see if they could do it, in such an early-game ship. And further, wants to see if people can adapt to having that type of ship amongst their complement.
I still say the griefer & leecher are more problematic, than someone deciding to use something off the wall. But I'll take you up on that idea....if you don't show up in an ESTF in whatever ship I decide is appropriate, with a weapons loadout that again, I feel is appropriate, then I think you are trolling others.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
LOL, everyone gets a free ship every 10 levels. You can't complete content (especially the episode that GRANTS access to eSTFs) in the Miranda. If you bring that ship in ANY ELITE STF, you are 100% trolling. There is no doubt, so don't even try these frivolous attempts to create it.
Yes, how dare I create an analogy to relate your skewed logic to real world issues. Shame on me!
I get it fine AND I am not arguing against your point. Stop acting superior. The point is that those players should not be punished because of another players actions. If the game slaps together you and four other players and those other players cannot even break 1k dps, you shouldn't be punished a second time for leaving the group(the first time was being put in a group like that to begin with). They could take steps to address this, but the answer from them and people like yourself has always been one of snobbish righteousness that it is somehow the players fault for using a tool put in the game by the games developers.
Yes, shame on you. You're using rampant emotionalism, rather than any kind of logic.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Ok, I'll bite. Lets step it down a notch then shall we?
Lets try something familiar to all the 15+ year old's -- Driving. Are you saying that by driving a car you are asking to be killed in an accident?
I know, how dare you relate this to anything life-or-death or a crime. So lets go into commerce then. So you're saying that by not using Carfax, checking the oil, engine, etc, people buying cars deserve to get ripped off? Please be sure to tell that member of your family that is older and has no knowledge of auto-mechanics this, maybe they'll do what I want and plant one in your teeth.
Oh I know, "but its still a real situation!", Ok then, lets step it down again into something more familiar and genre specific, a GAME -- football. Are you saying that a team that scores a touchdown is asking for the other team to start a field-riot?
You see, with logic, no matter how it is applied, the end result is always the same, regardless of its severity which I've just proven, and the great thing about logic is, no matter your futile attempts, you can never best it, only troll it.
Actually, the entire time, you have been arguing against this point. As in, "How dare someone else play in something other than what I FEEL is appropriate?!?"
Now, yes, could there be better matchmaking? Most likely. I'll not argue against that. However, as it stands that is not in place, so it's basically, the first 5 people (for any of the STF/ESTFs) that queue up, get lumped together. If you don't like that premise, don't use that particular tool. Kind of the same thing, as in, if you want a Ford, you don't go to a Chevy dealer. If you want to make sure of what your fellow teammates are going to be using, advertise that you're putting together a private match. Join one of the STF channels, there's probably like 10 or so out there that people do private matches through. The tools are there for you to avoid being teamed with someone who's not necessarily "up to your standards", on what they're flying, and using for equipment. And that also avoids getting the person who's new, and just learning the STF's.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Uh, I absolutely can complete any PvE mission in the game in a Miranda, and I have often done so for fun. If you are unable to do so, I find your lack of skill so incomprehensible that the only explanation I can think of for it is that you are actually an Andy Kauffman level performance art troll. Sure, I can't back that up, but then evidently assumptions about intent are sufficient for you, so why not for me?
Again, your problem is your assumption that you have some sort of absolute right to never have your feelings tussled in a public place in a public game. You don't have that right, and nobody, not even you, should care about this kind of minor irritation. The fact that you do shows that you have no sense of perspective or proportion (as does you attempting to justify equating mild internet trolling with sexual assault).
A) All animals with fur are cats.
Conclusion: This animal has fur, therefore it is a cat.
Bad premises = bad conclusions. But it's the logical conclusion.
Sorry, but I need video of it, because I find even level 9 content to be "ugh" with all the waiting to turn. I mean, this would be a darn achievement in of itself, especailly for this newb player as the premise. So I find it surprising there are no youtube videos of it.
To reply to the first part: Bring along another person that DOES know about mechanics. Do a test-drive. Look under the hood. Talk to the seller. There's a huge number of things that can be done to avoid getting ripped-off in that situation. And yes, someone who just looks at the vehicle, and buys it, is a moron, and yes, deserves to be ripped off. Even when I am the one selling a vehicle, I will tell the person, "Hey, if you want, I'll pop the hood, let's go for a test drive..." etc etc, so that way, they can feel assured as to whether the vehicle is worth it to them. And about the getting decked because of that notion, lol. Good luck to that one....
Ok, 2>How is one team scoring a, related to the other team feeling they are justified in starting ANY kind of fight? Sheesh, that's just acting worse than a 2 year old, the team that scored, to use MMO parlance, should feel trolled. So I guess to styay with this anaolgy, the one flying the ship YOU feel is inappropriate, should feel trolled by YOU, for you not flying what they want you to be in, hmm?
And by the way, I'm pretty much a master of logic, doing tons of reading, actually listening/reading what other people say, and watching what they do, is a great way to learn this skill, as well, as any number of other avenues to advance your ability to be logical, rather than be emotional about a subject.
At WORST, someone coming in a ship YOU feel is inappropriate, in a public venue, can be likened to someone deciding to talk about a subject you don't like, or wearing something you didn't feel was appropriate to that gathering. That is all. Nothing worse. And in a public venue, YOU do not get to decide what others get to talk about, or wear, unless it is something restricted by law. To translate that into this game, as long as the system allows for whatever kind of ships & equipment to be brought into an ESTF or any other Fleet Action, then they are JUST AS VALID, as what you have chosen to bring. Now, when the system is changed, to restrict what ships can be brought, or equipment can be used, and someone manages to get around it, possibly by, say, hacking, or a bug, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you feel trolled. Otherwise, it's just merely YOUR opinion on what you feel is appropriate, and as such, you know what they say about opinions...everyone has one, and they all stink.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Actually, that would fall into Venn (spelling) diagramming. As in, One is a subset of another. However, they basic premis you have chosen for A, is indeed, false, so thus invalidates the whole line of reasoning, lol.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
And you have failed logic. Starting the logic with "All ..." creates a self-serving fallacy that you then exploit meaning you really do not have any grasp on logic itself.
So do Strawman, Red Herrings, and Ad Hominems. :-P I was hoping someone would say that! *Cheers* Just my lead-in.
Not at all, sir. Your use of Red Herrings and Strawmen long ago debased your arguments. Continue.
EDIT: All we need now is, "Hitler would have..."
Actually, I wish like hell, they'd have a choice of both beam turrets, and cannon turrets to begin with.
But, yeah, when my characters first make 5-0, yeah, my weapons loadout may not be all Mk XI/XII, some may be X still, and they may not all be matched either. As someone who doesn't buy gear off the exchange, and pretty much utilizes only drops, supplemented by the odd useful item/weapon out of my fleet's bank, I use what I can get a hold of.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
First, if someone knows there is a risk of getting ripped off, and nevertheless takes NO action to prevent it, then yeah, they probably deserve it. Now, you are going to say that this proves that I am blaming the victim. And in this case, I am. This is because I am capable of telling the difference between a reasonable and unreasonable set of circumstances. If I sell you something that I know is not worth what you paid for it, it might make me a jerk. It only becomes my fault if I knowingly misrepresented the item to you. If you didn't do your due diligence and only after the fact found out that you overpaid, or whatever, well, that's really on you.
Note an important distinction - sometimes, at least under US law (which I am NOT asserting holds everywhere, or should be a perfect model, to be clear), a victim does, in fact, have an affirmative responsibility to take reasonable precautions, but not always. There is NO affirmative responsibility to, say, avoid being sexually assaulted, which is why your original analogy, aside from being offensive, was also deeply flawed. On the other hand, when the stakes are low, and there are reasonable ways for a victim to protect him/her self (as in the case of buying a car, or PUGing in STO), then yeah, the victim can be held accountable (at least in part) as well.
Good job wishing injury on someone whose only crime was being a better person than you, though.
Quick! Someone get Alanis Morissette in here so she can see what irony really is!
The first part I'm still trying to recover from the "wow" factor, especially considering people that either don't know about mechanics and have no one else to trust and rely on.
The second part:
I'm LOLing.
So wish I was Vulcan right about now.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Yes, sorry, I was still wowing and loling.
It doesn't follow logic still, but please do try and explain how it does.