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Is Mission Scaling Broken?

So I did "Secrets" with one of my old characters who is now Lv 65, using a T5U Breen Warship, with the exception of the impulse engines everything I equipped to the ship is Mk X-XII, Rare or Very Rare. Before I started the mission I checked and re-slotted his skills.
So why was I getting my TRIBBLE kicked when it should have been relatively quick & easy?
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Comments

  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 547 Arc User
    It's possible your build may need some work, but a lot of people have noticed just how much stronger npc ships have become since the level cap expansion to 65.

    The most common complaint is the prevalence of several-hundred-thousand damage torpedoes, tenfold for a group like the Vaadwaur.
  • anubis0sarvouranubis0sarvour Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    It was like my weapons were underpowered and NPCs ships & weapons were overpowered.
    Build is essentially the same as I had on that character for 2 years. Did not have problems like this till now.
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bejaymacbejaymac Member Posts: 448 Arc User
    Cryptic's idea was that at lvl 60 you should have needed to upgrade your gear to Mk 14, but I think they messed up their sums on the NPC scaling, as a result you could still get away with using Mk 12 VR gear, even at lvl 64.

    With ViL I believe that they over compensated, so now when you hit lvl 65 you are basically facing NPCs that are using the equivalent of Mk 15 gear, and those will rip right through Mk 12 shields like they don't exist, so now you really have no choice you need to upgrade your gear.
  • diedel443diedel443 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    I would say it is not limit to 65, try them in levelling gear and have "fun" dying 20 times just to auto-win in the end. First time i noticed it was at level 22 with shadow play, which would actually be around level 15. The lowest i got the dedi was 95%, it just lobs 3 heavy plasma at you and you die. This is consistent so far all the way to 62. In all queues where i was "upscaled" i am basically dead weight for the group. I would die in below a second to anything and it take forever to kill anything that is distracted. I have come to the conclusion that the scaling does nothing and i was fighting against level 50 mobs at level 20, at least it feels that way. If it takes the whole team like 10 minutes to kill the falcata there clearly is something wrong. I have no idea how they intend to keep new players, i actually think they have zero interest in that it is an effect of trying to reign in some of the maxed out people or something. Problem is that it is an abysmal experience regardless of what you do for everybody else. An honestly with the account perk system this will just get worse, it will make the gameplay for "casual" player just worse with the next tuning phase, because it isn't really fun if the only viable play option is getting lucky and carried through TFOs.
  • arionisaarionisa Member Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    Facing lvl 65 content with only Mk X-XII gear is going to be an exercise in frustration for most players. You either need to get really good or start upgrading. While it will take some time, it is quite easy to equip yourself with all MK XII VR everything just running missions. Being right at the beginning of the Omega event, you can also spend time gathering all those nice Omegas so you can craft a lot of really awesome upgrades.
    LTS and loving it.
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  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,893 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    arionisa wrote: »
    Facing lvl 65 content with only Mk X-XII gear is going to be an exercise in frustration for most players. You either need to get really good or start upgrading. While it will take some time, it is quite easy to equip yourself with all MK XII VR everything just running missions. Being right at the beginning of the Omega event, you can also spend time gathering all those nice Omegas so you can craft a lot of really awesome upgrades.

    It's quite easy for certain kinds of weapons, not so much for others. I can't come up with a single mission that rewards blue or purple regular phaser beam arrays or dual cannons, for instance. You can get a unique Quantum Phaser and a unique omni-directional, and all of the Phaser Relays that you want by rerunning Of Signs and Portents, but you'll have to get lucky with drops, buy from the exchange, or craft (and potentially upgrade) the rest of your weapons. Disruptor, Plasma and Tetryon do better, with most of the different weapon types plus the consoles for them in missions, just waiting there for you to repeat. Antiproton and Polaron have some sources for repeatable weapons of one or 2 types, but no guaranteed consoles for them.

    Of course, if you're level 65, those same scaling issues are going to be present in most of those missions, too, so repeating them is going to be quite frustrating.

    If i were new to the game, and thus low on resources, but knowing what I now know, I would level up to 50, then skip ahead to those specific missions to get all of the VR MK XII equipment that I needed before the brick wall started to show itself.
    Before you say that nobody asked for a feature, remember that an online game is not a democracy.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    I wanted to leave the chart for Mark Level vs. Your Rank from the Wiki here:

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Mark#Mark_Tiers
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Player_rank

    Note:

    Mark XI–XII Rear Admiral, Upper Half, Major General, Subadmiral 2 (Level 50-55)

    Mark XIII–XIV Vice Admiral, Lieutenant General, Vice Admiral (level 55-60)

    Mark XV Fleet Admiral (starts at level 60 and continues past 65)

    Though it looks very fudged up with Tier 5-U and T-6 ships able to be used starting at 50. Just make your Mark Level match your named RANK.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • diedel443diedel443 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    arionisa wrote: »
    Facing lvl 65 content with only Mk X-XII gear is going to be an exercise in frustration for most players. You either need to get really good or start upgrading. While it will take some time, it is quite easy to equip yourself with all MK XII VR everything just running missions. Being right at the beginning of the Omega event, you can also spend time gathering all those nice Omegas so you can craft a lot of really awesome upgrades.

    At 65 i would be kinda OK with that, though i feel like not having a direct way to get any of the required gear level is a bit lame, i don't like the forced upgrade system that much. My far bigger problem is that the missions when levelling are unplayable. Shadow play at level 20 is just broken, so are the new DSC missions at 50. After the abysmal experience in shadow play i quit doing any mission and only did the TFOs, but those are not that much better. You are totally useless until you got gear at 65.
  • bejaymacbejaymac Member Posts: 448 Arc User
    diedel443 wrote: »
    At 65 i would be kinda OK with that, though i feel like not having a direct way to get any of the required gear level is a bit lame, i don't like the forced upgrade system that much. My far bigger problem is that the missions when levelling are unplayable. Shadow play at level 20 is just broken, so are the new DSC missions at 50. After the abysmal experience in shadow play i quit doing any mission and only did the TFOs, but those are not that much better. You are totally useless until you got gear at 65.

    In the story missions the Romulans have always been a bit more OP than most other NPCs, but since LoR and the revamps they have done since, that D'D has become more OP that anything else. The amount of space magic that thing can use is scary at any lvl, staying out of it's forward firing arc is always advisable. So instead of flying right up to it and answering the hail, fly around it until your weapons are all pointing at it's side before you answer the hail, you will last a lot longer against it's broadside firing arc than against it's front or rear arc.

    Back when the lvl cap was 50 the best gear was Mk 12 VR, but you could get away with Mk 10 whites on normal if you really wanted to. When they set the cap to 60 you could still do everything on normal with Mk 12 VR, at both 50 and 60 it meant new and old players could gather the resources they needed. But since ViL that has changed, Mk 12 VR are pretty much useless at lvl 65 for the casual gamer, which means new players are finding it hard going trying to get the resources they need to upgrade, when you go "BOOOOOMMM" all the time it gets frustrating, so it's no surprise most are quitting the game.

    Which could prove fatal to Cryptic if they don't change things.
  • alexhaydenalexhayden Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    > @bejaymac said:
    > Cryptic's idea was that at lvl 60 you should have needed to upgrade your gear to Mk 14, but I think they messed up their sums on the NPC scaling, as a result you could still get away with using Mk 12 VR gear, even at lvl 64.
    >
    > With ViL I believe that they over compensated, so now when you hit lvl 65 you are basically facing NPCs that are using the equivalent of Mk 15 gear, and those will rip right through Mk 12 shields like they don't exist, so now you really have no choice you need to upgrade your gear.

    Damn. I should have figured it was going to be for something like this. As a casual player I haven't focused on upgrading to a great extent, my main character being the beneficiary of the upgrades (Mk IV for the most part) whilst two others have survived quite comfortably on VR Mk XII.

    But if Cryptic have upped the ante at level 65 so the npcs are striking at Mk XV, it explains why my level 20 AOY alt sailed through 'Secrets' without a scratch while my level 65 Jem'hadar was repeatedly blasted out of the stars by the Klingons. It also explains why my level 65 Romulan Sci is struggling against the Iconians and why my level 65 main is finding some of the battles a bit of a headache.

    So it's drydock for all of them and the Dilithium (and Omega particle gathering) grindstone for me. I'll definitely push the main to Mk XV over the next few months, but with thirteen other alts at various levels..I guess I now have to decide if I push on with them, convert them to Dil farmers or simply give up and dispatch them to the undiscovered country.

    Anyway, thanks all for the heads up. Appreciated.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,718 Arc User
    edited January 2019
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    Post edited by avoozuul on
  • zerokillcf2011zerokillcf2011 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    I was wondering. Most of my alts have 100% VR mark 12 weapons, and a mix of Mk 12 VR and Mark 13 UR ship equip from reputations, and they are getting shreaded now. Good to know I wasn't the only one this happened too. I guess it makes sense, but with 17 Alts I haven't invested the time in Upgrades like I should. Guess I should bank up Omega's and dump some dilithium at the next Phoenix event.
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