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PWE: Stop Encouraging Sociopaths

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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If STO is breeding sociopaths how do we explain a the sociopaths in society that do not play STO and if everyone is a sociopath does that just make us a society and therefore unsociopathic by association?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    or maybe, to use amodern fad of thought, its caused by morphic fields? You know thrm fields in nature that means two guys thousands of miles away know to eat a banana by peeling it first.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    LOL! Touche :D

    Most fleets will kick you if your play time is less than a few hours per week -- funny you're advocating for people not to have a real life in this situation by assuming all players whom fleet or premade STFs are an option. If it smells like an elitist, sounds like an elitist, it probably is an elitist.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    So... what I do in my cruiser is sociopathic as a cruiser captain but the same thing is an escort with less shareable heals isn't?

    You do know how stupid that sounds... right?

    Kinda funny you mention that, but yes -- when your ship is setup both in boff slots and stats to be a tank and healer, choosing to perform another job because it suits "you" is text-book. As I said, if an escort sets himself up to heal, because it suits "HIM" this is also text-book. The fact is, when your sacrificing -200% group effectiveness from your ship to add +100% "personal" effectiveness while in a pug, well you just hit the nail on the head.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    elessym wrote: »
    Actually, I'm amazed by all the people who have yet to realize that the OP is the actual sociopath in question.

    Too bad for your theory, I have a dog (a white German Shep). If you knew anything about Sociopaths, they generally are incapable of caring for pets other than self-sufficient pets like cats and goldfish. Also, I have 4 children that are growing like weeds -- again this is another trait that generally exonerates folks (the antithesis of sociopathy) from being sociopaths. Hate to be your bubble-popper, but your obvious assumptions are obvious. But it is rather typical for a sociopath to try and implicate others as sociopaths to maintain their facade of normalcy while its not very typical for a sociopath to complain about other sociopaths.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    See, again, the problem is with you. If a fleet has a policy that you don't like, find another fleet. There are so many out there to choose from.

    As for "advocating people to not have a real life"... I have a full time job, wife and 2 small kids. I get maybe 2 or 3 hours total a week to play. The fleet I am in is a group of like minded people who don't kick people for "low play time". I also belong to several chat channels which makes it very, very easy to find a team whenever I am on. I'm not doing anything you or anyone else can't do with regard to finding good teammates.

    This is utter BS and you know it. I've been in several fleets before -- every single one of the "good fleets" have activity policies that alienate players with lives. And for the record, I've never been kicked out of a fleet either. While fleets with relaxed activity policies generally have the EXACT PROBLEMS PUGS HAVE.

    The question remains, being you seem to know your fleets fairly well, why are you playing the ignorance card on this?
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Kinda funny you mention that, but yes -- when your ship is setup both in boff slots and stats to be a tank and healer, choosing to perform another job because it suits "you" is text-book. As I said, if an escort sets himself up to heal, because it suits "HIM" this is also text-book. The fact is, when your sacrificing -200% group effectiveness from your ship to add +100% "personal" effectiveness while in a pug, well you just hit the nail on the head.

    Sure... whatever you say... if I'm a sociopath for flying a cruiser as an engineer to do dps (remembering how I haven't actually said what ship it is...) the fact I can do the escort's 'job' and thereby hold threat so others don't get shot and heal myself and I can heal others and increase the dps of my team mates, then I'd rather be a sociopath thanks.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Sure... whatever you say... if I'm a sociopath for flying a cruiser as an engineer to do dps (remembering how I haven't actually said what ship it is...) the fact I can do the escort's 'job' and thereby hold threat so others don't get shot and heal myself and I can heal others and increase the dps of my team mates, then I'd rather be a sociopath thanks.

    Just just stated the ship's class three times in fact. Oh you're in the Battlecruiser are you? What so you're firing cannons or beams hoping that someone else is using APB3? Need I say more?

    You're pushing that envelope, no me, I said even in the OP that I realize there are hybrid ships, but that does not mean you are incapable of performing the primary objectives that STO seems to have laid out for that ship's class. You show me how that T5 Battle Cruiser lacks the hull or shields of a non-carrier escort and then show me how you can get APB3 on that battle-cruiser while putting aux2bat3 on an ecort and I'll politely digress. The point still stands, you are playing a ship that has a engineering commander boff, which means you get more slots/power for heals, than an escort could even dream of but of course, without sacrificing any dps.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Just just stated the ship's class three times in fact. Oh you're in the Battlecruiser are you? What so you're firing cannons or beams hoping that someone else is using APB3? Need I say more?

    No. I'm flying a fleet Excel running beams and carrying my own APB2 and helping the team, or did you miss that part?
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Scale rewards depending on:
    • Engineer Captains: Heals (tertiary)

    That's ridiculous. Why are Engineering Captains supposed to heal? The only difference in careers are a small set of abilities, and none of an Engineering Captain's career abilities heal other people.
    lordlalo wrote: »
    With that being known, there seems to either be no incentives for a team to heal tacscort builds or they find that it has no benefit to their own scores and end-loot (very sociopathic behavior).

    Demanding other people serve you is also very sociopathic - it disregards the preference of others.

    If people wanted to play support, then they would support regardless of any in-game incentive/punishment system. Obviously, few in PUGs want to play support. Those who do want to play support would find a group (ie. a Fleet) to support, and filter themselves out of PUGs.

    Your original post sounds nothing more than a well dressed whine about dying half the time, and wanting people to heal you.
    lordlalo wrote: »
    But it is rather typical for a sociopath to try and implicate others as sociopaths to maintain their facade of normalcy while its not very typical for a sociopath to complain about other sociopaths.

    The irony here is staggering. You realize that you started a thread "to try and implicate others as sociopaths", right?
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    darkjeff wrote: »
    That's ridiculous. Why are Engineering Captains supposed to heal? The only difference in careers are a small set of abilities, and none of an Engineering Captain's career abilities heal other people.

    Maybe because cruiser/engineers are best class suited to do so:

    http://hilbertguide.com/#Cruiser
    Escorts deal damage. They have little healing and usually rely on heals from team mates to survive.<snip>
    Cruisers are versatile ships. They can provide healing and they can deal damage. In contrast to an escort a cruiser's damage is constant pressure damage and not spike damage. The following cruiser build is designed to provide your team with heals and damage at the same time.
    <snip>
    For a cruiser that does a lot of target switching to heal allies, it is a good idea to set the option Auto attack (in Options -> Controls) to "Toggle, non-combat cancels".
    valoreah wrote: »
    Want to make sure I'm understanding you here.... any fleet who doesn't kick people due to low play time is not good? Needing to kick people who don't log in more than once or twice a week is a requirement for a fleet to be good?

    You really have no clue to what common sense is do you? Let me break it down for you:

    1) Fleet has no activity policy
    2) Fleet gets plagued with players logging in erratically
    3) 90% of the fleet doesn't know fleet members from Adam
    4) Fleet becomes antisocial
    5) Fleet experiences same problems in PUGs.

    Now...

    1) Fleet has strict activity policy (mine does)
    2) Fleet's members are online during about the same times
    3) Fleet members are near-intimate with each other (lol but seriously)
    4) Fleet can nearly read each other's minds
    5) Fleet pwns STF's.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Our fleet has relaxed activity policies and we don't have any problems forming teams. We're also spread across factions in STO, as well as our chat channel covering STO, CO and NV. No issues finding teams among ourselves for any of the games. I wouldn't want to guess at how it is in other fleets. I can't imagine that my experience is so radically different from others out there.

    I didn't say you would have problems finding a group for STF's, oh dear, no one has this problem regardless of their fleet thanks to pugs -- however, the fleets ability to work together and the tenancy for players to walk the line of their class to provide the greatest benefit to the group is not common of these relaxed fleets, in fact it seems to be completely opposite. Now, sure, you have fun in these fleets, and that's all fine and well, but we're not talking about private or premade STF's either are we? No, we're talking about PUGs, people with those strict time-table fleets that are left pugging during off-peek times where people bring any setup they please into the PUG and then get angry when people leave.
    adamkafei wrote: »
    No. I'm flying a fleet Excel running beams and carrying my own APB2 and helping the team, or did you miss that part?

    Totally not helping your point, except for the APB2 part, but a fleet Excel running a dps load-out with beams while still having a commander engineer boff is speaking loads.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    I believe EPS Power Transfer targets both self and ally.


    EDIT: NVM. I realize you are referring to healing specifically.

    No, but it does mean they can use more boff abilities to heal others.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Totally not helping your point, except for the APB2 part, but a fleet Excel running a dps load-out with beams while still having a commander engineer boff is speaking loads.

    Do tell me why if not for dps does the fleet Excel have four TACTICAL console slots...
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Do tell me why if not for dps does the fleet Excel have four TACTICAL console slots...

    Can you load DHCs in those Tactical slots? No? Just stop it.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • talajtalaj Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Factoid: Just because you don't like the idea, or feel as if the brick has landed squarely on your forehead, doesn't mean I'm a troll.

    Your writings over the course of the recent threads that you've started are like a sample case for discourse 101. You might want to more thoroughly plan out your agenda when it comes to future efforts, because the anomalies are too easy to spot.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    talaj wrote: »
    Your writings over the course of the recent threads that you've started are like a sample case for discourse 101. You might want to more thoroughly plan out your agenda when it comes to future efforts, because the anomalies are too easy to spot.

    Let me get this straight, because I don't make every effort to be politically correct, I'm wrong? Oh no, I don't think so. You won't find a single reply I've made discrediting someone's facts or ideas because they presented it in an honest and straight forward manner with no consideration of political correctness injected -- never. Facts aren't debatable, end of story.

    But here is another fact, the guy that started the thread about AFKers in STFs -- remember him? Yeah, he was called a troll too and met the same harsh opposition, surprisingly from some of the same people opposing this.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Can you load DHCs in those Tactical slots? No? Just stop it.

    Right then, so you would rather I ran no weapons (for all the good they would do if I did what you want) and run only heals for you and thereby be useless to a team?

    I'd rather be useful in a way I enjoy and if that makes me a sociopath then I'd rather be a sociopath and be useful, thanks.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Right then, so you would rather I ran no weapons (for all the good they would do if I did what you want) and run only heals for you and thereby be useless to a team?

    I'd rather be useful in a way I enjoy and if that makes me a sociopath then I'd rather be a sociopath and be useful, thanks.

    Yeah, sure equip no weapons -- indeed what was said. I said stop being silly, yet you get sillier. You could get 10 (maybe it was 8 IDK, not debating the semantics) tac consoles on a beam array boat and still couldn't match the dps of 4 DHC's. Your shenanigans aren't working.

    I'm saying I don't care what cruiser you're in, if you're not healing your team mates or make a d-bag comment that I witnessed in a team just 2 weeks ago such as, "I'm not going to heal because I won't get first place" this system is broken as-is, and you're a d-bag for even entertaining the idea that it is kosher to throw a team mate under the bus because of his ship/class.

    You know what your problem is right? Besides failure to read and understand you are assuming many things about me here:

    1) That this thread somehow benefits me
    2) That I don't have every class/ship/faction available
    3) That I have no knowledge of the other classes and ships

    You see, I have a fed tactical (yes it is my favorite), fed engineer, fed sci, rom tact, rom engineer, rom sci, etc for KDF. All VA's mind you, all with either a t5 fleet ship or comparable cstore ship. The problem is, I don't play these classes selfishly, when in a cruiser I do my best to tank and heal those who catch agro -- obviously if I don't have agro, its already my fault that they're tanking so tossing them a heal is the least I can do. When playing a sci ship/captain its much like a hybrid escort / cruiser -- while making sure I'm on top of the spot heals, I'm also ensuring that the mob is debuffed, while trying to put out as much dps as possible (which isn't much and is why I focus on order, heals, and debuffs) and providing some order to the fight with gravity wells.

    The problem being, the moment one enters into an elite pug, those not playing with consideration of the team in mind, are effectively LEECHING because there is no way in hell they would complete the pug with 4 others like themselves (theory tested several times by purposely leaving and receiving hate tells blaming me for them loosing)
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • gstamo01gstamo01 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    or maybe, to use amodern fad of thought, its caused by morphic fields? You know thrm fields in nature that means two guys thousands of miles away know to eat a banana by peeling it first.

    Taking a "Selfie" photo of your Captain is also Sociopathic by the OP's logic..:D
    You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online! :D
  • talajtalaj Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Let me get this straight, because I don't make every effort to be politically correct, I'm wrong? Oh no, I don't think so. You won't find a single reply I've made discrediting someone's facts or ideas because they presented it in an honest and straight forward manner with no consideration of political correctness injected -- never. Facts aren't debatable, end of story.

    Political correctness? Well that's another one of your previous assertions debunked - if you actually had the relevant credentials, you'd be able to fathom what I'm talking about instead of running with the sort of erroneous assumption I'd expect from a layman. It's painfully obvious now that you don't though, so please continue making slip-ups - when you're trying to weave a tangled web of obfuscation, it often becomes hard to keep track of it all.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    Actually, I think I do.

    You 'think' you do? This would imply that you have challenged yourself at some point to verify this, which I can't imagine has happened yet. Case in point.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Let me break it down for you even further. This is supposition based on your idea of how the game works. It doesn't in any way represent every fleet.

    Right, we're speaking on a subject that covers 99% of pugs, so therefor you want to touch on the 1% of fleets that for the time being fits into the exception category and expect players to be able to easily find these fleets through the haystack. Good point /sarcasm.
    valoreah wrote: »
    I don't have any problem working together with anyone in our fleet.

    Driving around in your cruiser pew-pewing and being dazzled by the flashy lights is not working with them. That's working for yourself. If however you are running around healing when you loose agro, and doing everything within your power and ability to prevent a death in your team -- then why the hell are you arguing with me?
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    talaj wrote: »
    Political correctness? Well that's another one of your previous assertions debunked - if you actually had the relevant credentials, you'd be able to fathom what I'm talking about instead of running with the sort of erroneous assumption I'd expect from a layman. It's painfully obvious now that you don't though, so please continue making slip-ups - when you're trying to weave a tangled web of obfuscation, it often becomes hard to keep track of it all.

    Obvious lie is obvious -- I've N E V E R claimed to be PC or to be the PC Police. You can either cite yourself now or stop the libel.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    gstamo01 wrote: »
    Taking a "Selfie" photo of your Captain is also Sociopathic by the OP's logic..:D

    That was funny. I may just put that in my signature :P
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • talajtalaj Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Obvious lie is obvious -- I've N E V E R claimed to be PC or to be the PC Police. You can either cite yourself now or stop the libel.

    Who said anything about that sort of claim? Keep digging.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    talaj wrote: »
    Who said anything about that sort of claim? Keep digging.

    ......
    talaj wrote: »
    Your writings over the course of the recent threads that you've started are like a sample case for discourse 101. You might want to more thoroughly plan out your agenda when it comes to future efforts, because the anomalies are too easy to spot.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse
    The totality of codified language (vocabulary) used in a given field of intellectual enquiry and of social practice, such as legal discourse, medical discourse, religious discourse, et cetera.[2]

    So, I'm that sample case study in discourse 101 (which is also referred to as political science 101), therefor incorrect based upon the fact I choose not to be PC (which is what these studies -- if you've taken them -- demonstrate by showing an extreme case of either-or).

    Please, keep bringing your politics into it....
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • talajtalaj Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    You turned to wikipedia - ouch! Oh, and discourse 101 is a core psych module - surely you know that?
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    talaj wrote: »
    You turned to wikipedia - ouch! Oh, and discourse 101 is a core psych module - surely you know that?

    Then surely you would have used the correct terminology for the curriculum itself -- The Dialectical Method -- instead of enshrouding your statement so it could be subjected to interpretation. Considering your acclaimed high level of intellect, one can only conclude this was your intent.

    But you don't like Wikiepedia? Fine:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discourse
    a formal discussion of a subject in speech or writing, as a dissertation, treatise, sermon, etc.

    Now, tell me, what is formal about a game? This again falls under political science and other political studies.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • talajtalaj Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Then surely you would have used the correct terminology for the course itself -- The Dialectical Method

    The dialectic method is a form of dispute-based reasoning, which is a single facet of the discourse analysis module, not the module itself.

    You're missing the point though. You should know this already, but you clearly don't - which blows a rather massive hole in the ostensible credibility of one of your previous posts in this very thread. I'd hedge at this point that you can't even remember half of the other personal "factoids" you've made reference to across various threads in order to attempt to bolster your credibility.
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    talaj wrote: »
    The dialectic method is a form of dispute-based reasoning, which is a single facet of the discourse analysis module, not the module itself.

    No, it is debate based communications (of any kind) which covers discourse in a very small segment, which is obvious what you're doing and obviously what my OP was doing. There is no such thing as "Discourse 101" lol.
    http://www.uncg.edu/casa/GenEd.html

    GRD - Reasoning and Discourse

    Category Description: Students gain skills in intellectual discourse, including constructing cogent arguments, locating, synthesizing and analyzing documents, and writing and speaking clearly, coherently, and effectively.

    Courses that satisfy this degree requirement include:

    CST 105-Introduction to Communication Studies
    ENG 102-College Writing II
    ENG 103-Essentials of Professional and Business Writing (restricted to specific Learning Communities)
    ENG 230-Writing/Workplace/Public Audiences
    FMS 116-Freshman Seminar in Reasoning and Discourse II (restricted to freshmen only)
    PHI 115-Practical Reasoning
    PHI 310-Introduction to Formal Logic
    PSY 318- Belief in Wierd Things (prerequisite PSY 121)
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    errab wrote: »
    When you queue up blind for any group content you are rolling the dice and you will have to live with the end result.

    It has been said a billion times that it is better to run group content with friends or fleet mates and if you have neither you can also use Group Channels to find likeminded players to run group content with.

    Pugging can be its own punishment and complaining about it over and over again when there are much better options open to us all for teaming is the new definition of Insanity.

    Pugging is a choice not a necessity.

    Not a choice for sociopaths if you have been paying attention.

    Sociopaths don't like or need friends, except in group forcing MMO games.
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