?Discourse? refers to the language, images, styles, genres, behaviors and other forms of communication used by specific social and professional groups. The techniques of discourse analysis and language awareness taught in this course will enable you to position yourself socially and professionally, helping you understand the discourse conventions, reasoning, and "commonsense" assumptions that create and define academic, political, professional, and other discourse formations and communities. Students will produce, perform, and analyze college-level, oral and written texts; and they will learn how written and oral performances function together in specific discourse communities. Co-requisite: Anchor I: Reasoning and Values (Interdisciplinary)
Notice that DISC 100, 200, or 300 is not a pre-requisite of anything nor is it required for a psychology major. Notice as well "specific social groups..."? Mmmmm.
To be fair, the courses I took are:
Social Behavior
Business Ethics and Communications
Social Problems
Those were my communications classes not counting mandatory Engrish :P. Granted its been a while, so there likely may be something I forgot to plop on that list.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
No, it is debate based communications (of any kind) which covers discourse in a very small segment, which is obvious what you're doing and obviously what my OP was doing. There is no such thing as "Discourse 101" lol.
Dispute-based reasoning is synonymous with debate-based communications. As for there not being a "discourse 101", were you a psych major you'd have invariably come across the terminology - and frankly it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
Petty arguments for couple of pages that leads nowhere. Is that not a bit childish?
It is just sad that most of any forums these days are just about arguing about who is right and who is wrong and issues that originally were wished to adress got lost in the stupid arguments.
Hardly anything constructive. What does it matter who is right and who is wrong if all the issues left unadressed?
Dispute-based reasoning is synonymous with debate-based communications. As for there not being a "discourse 101", were you a psych major you'd have invariably come across the terminology - and frankly it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
You're saying that reasoning/logic is synonymous of communications? L O L -- Dear God, all of political science and communications DEMANDS you throw logic out the window. And my dispute is that if you were, you would know it wasn't a required course and hardly covers the broad curriculum of psychology because the course itself is narrowed and specific to social group studies -- a mere figment of psychology and the study thereof -- and most importantly, entirely optional.
Again "Discourse 101" offered by only 2 US Universities that was searchable by the first 10 pages of Google, also very clearly explains that it is not required for psychology and the course only dabbles into special social groups (likely, as Wikipedia stated, politics, medicine, and religion being a first guess).
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Petty arguments for couple of pages that leads nowhere. Is that not a bit childish?
It is just sad that most of any forums these days are just about arguing about who is right and who is wrong and issues that originally were wished to adress got lost in the stupid arguments.
Hardly anything constructive. What does it matter who is right and who is wrong if all the issues left unadressed?
I agree and digress. The problem you are seeing with the arguments is folks stating that there are no problems or if they can admit there is a problem, their "sole" solution is abstinence while turning a blind eye.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Yeah, sure equip no weapons -- indeed what was said. I said stop being silly, yet you get sillier.
No, but you should know that a good healboat doesn't use weapon power, thus any weapons on one would be so low damage as to be as good as no weapons at all.
You could get 10 (maybe it was 8 IDK, not debating the semantics) tac consoles on a beam array boat and still couldn't match the dps of 4 DHC's.
I would beg to differ, I am also willing to show you what they are capable of if you so wish.
I'm saying I don't care what cruiser you're in, if you're not healing your team mates or make a d-bag comment that I witnessed in a team just 2 weeks ago such as, "I'm not going to heal because I won't get first place" this system is broken as-is, and you're a d-bag for even entertaining the idea that it is kosher to throw a team mate under the bus because of his ship/class.
This is a major flaw in your assessment of ships, not all cruisers are designed as healboats or as tanks, some are built purely to dps, the Excelsior for example is well known as a TACTICAL cruiser used for applying DPS, not heals, this is why DEM3 (one of the most used cruiser skills in the game) is an engineer captain trained skill that takes an engineering COMMANDER slot
You know what your problem is right? Besides failure to read and understand you are assuming many things about me here:
1) That this thread somehow benefits me
2) That I don't have every class/ship/faction available
3) That I have no knowledge of the other classes and ships
Wrong again, I've voiced no assumptions about you, only what you've told us, maybe you should stop making assumptions.
You see, I have a fed tactical (yes it is my favorite), fed engineer, fed sci, rom tact, rom engineer, rom sci, etc for KDF. All VA's mind you, all with either a t5 fleet ship or comparable cstore ship. The problem is, I don't play these classes selfishly, when in a cruiser I do my best to tank and heal those who catch agro -- obviously if I don't have agro, its already my fault that they're tanking so tossing them a heal is the least I can do. When playing a sci ship/captain its much like a hybrid escort / cruiser -- while making sure I'm on top of the spot heals, I'm also ensuring that the mob is debuffed, while trying to put out as much dps as possible (which isn't much and is why I focus on order, heals, and debuffs) and providing some order to the fight with gravity wells.
I also play all the classes and all their respective ship classes, I have no issue doing what I want in any of them, what you seem to be incapable of getting your head around is how something like my ship or anything for that matter that doesn't fit your mold can benefit a team, or play for a team, yet in the current pve meta, a dps cruiser is of more use to a team than a healboat or a straight tank, especially as threat control is tied to high damage output (e.g. if you have a cruiser with 9 points in TC and 3 or 4 +th consoles doing no damage and an escort doing lots of damage, the npc WILL attack the escort and laugh at the tank)
The problem being, the moment one enters into an elite pug, those not playing with consideration of the team in mind, are effectively LEECHING because there is no way in hell they would complete the pug with 4 others like themselves (theory tested several times by purposely leaving and receiving hate tells blaming me for them loosing)
The thing is... endgame pve is built around EXACTLY the kind of group you just described such that EXACTLY this sort of group is capable of completing it.
I do have to say this is one of the most entertaining whine threads I've seen in a long time. And yes, OP, you can say what you want and think what you want, but this is nothing more than a "people don't play the game the way I want them to so they are idiots" whine thread. Just a little more entertaining than usual.
And by the way, just because you are teamed up with someone does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that you have to socialize with them. Yes I will admit that communication in pugs could be a little better, but you do not have to socialize. It's just like at the workplace. Just because you work with someone does not mean you have to socialize with them. And you are also forgetting the meaning of multiplayer. Multiplayer just means that more than one person can play the game at once. It does not mean you have to team up with, or even "socialize" with anyone.
But hey, please continue with your elitist whining, the STO community is thoroughly enjoying a great laugh at your expense. At least I am.:D
I don't care what the header says, I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be, an "ARC user".
No, but you should know that a good healboat doesn't use weapon power, thus any weapons on one would be so low damage as to be as good as no weapons at all.
You don't need your aux jacked up to 130 to keep someone alive. Again, you're being silly and again assuming I haven't played a cruiser/engineer.
This is a major flaw in your assessment of ships, not all cruisers are designed as healboats or as tanks, some are built purely to dps, the Excelsior for example is well known as a TACTICAL cruiser used for applying DPS, not heals, this is why DEM3 (one of the most used cruiser skills in the game) is an engineer captain trained skill that takes an engineering COMMANDER slot
Your abilities are determined by your boff loadout -- ships do not innately grant an ability with the exception of science ships (well and cruisers now with communication arrays). The power in a ship is the boff layout and that is the point. If you have a Commander of engineering then you're a healer by the game's design, but of course, you could use the bit of sociopathy to distort this to all self-only abilities like aux2bat cheat, EPx, and RSP. But then again who are you benefiting? Your team? Or yourself?
Wrong again, I've voiced no assumptions about you, only what you've told us, maybe you should stop making assumptions.
No, you've assumed three times (maybe more) that this thread is somehow about me. You've also, again from your own writings, assumed that I only play a tacscort being I use it heavily as an example. These are assumptions.
I also play all the classes and all their respective ship classes, I have no issue doing what I want in any of them, what you seem to be incapable of getting your head around is how something like my ship or anything for that matter that doesn't fit your mold can benefit a team, or play for a team, yet in the current pve meta, a dps cruiser is of more use to a team than a healboat or a straight tank, especially as threat control is tied to high damage output (e.g. if you have a cruiser with 9 points in TC and 3 or 4 +th consoles doing no damage and an escort doing lots of damage, the npc WILL attack the escort and laugh at the tank)
It doesn't benefit a blind team that has no clue who's going to be their team-mate. It also doesn't benefit a team to only classify drop ranks to dps. It also doesn't benefit a team to encourage players to let dps classes die for doing what they were intended to do. It also doesn't benefit a soul to come here acting like it does -- even yourself in the long-run.
The thing is... endgame pve is built around EXACTLY the kind of group you just described such that EXACTLY this sort of group is capable of completing it.
Which means someone at PWE is paying attention, and this is good -- that is, of course, if you were referring to the group working as a team to keep each other alive and using specific abilities for specific situations that benefit the group in the Dyson content. However, if you are referring to the comment made about players using self-only abilities, no. I've seen team after team epicfail pugs because they all thought they were some ship-ninja in their boat and got clobbered while thinking the could take the content themselves and while everyone else was regrouping (I lol hard at these, sitting back and taking bets on when they will get the hint is most entertaining). Likewise, I've yet to see a team fail that made notable efforts to keep each other alive and filled defined roles, regardless of gear OR experience.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
You don't need your aux jacked up to 130 to keep someone alive. Again, you're being silly.
It's silly now to build a healboat to PvP standard?
Show me the math. Show me the side-by-side parses. There are parses and debates all over these forums to prove otherwise.
Sorry but 1.3k to 1.6k 8 times, times 4 is way more than 2k 4 times, times 2...
Your abilities are determined by your boff loadout -- ships do not innately grant an ability with the exception of science ships (well and cruisers now with communication arrays). The power in a ship is the boff layout and that is the point. If you have a Commander of engineering then you're a healer by the game's design, but of course, you could use the bit of sociopathy to distort this to all self-only abilities like aux2bat cheat, EPx, and RSP. But then again who are you benefiting? Your team? Or yourself?
So in a hypothetical scenario where I use an Oddy cruiser and set all the universal boffs as anything but eng so I only have 4 eng skills, I'm still meant to healboat? Pray tell how...
Using an Aux2Batt dps cruiser build (which I don't) does benefit a team because DEAD THINGS DON'T SHOOT BACK!
No, you've assumed three times (maybe more) that this thread is somehow about me. You've also, again from your own writings, assumed that I only play a tacscort being I use it heavily as an example. These are assumptions.
You sir need to stop fabricating TRIBBLE, it doesn't help your argument...
It doesn't benefit a blind team that has no clue who's going to be their team-mate. It also doesn't benefit a team to only classify drop ranks to dps. It also doesn't benefit a team to encourage players to let dps classes die for doing what they were intended to do. It also doesn't benefit a soul to come here acting like it does -- even yourself in the long-run.
If in my cruiser I can stop STF spawns reaching critical targets it helps a bad team far more than me healboating does... what's the most reliable way to do this? DPS, what's the way I find most fun to do this? In a cruiser... That is so wrong and actively unhelpful because..?
Which means someone at PWE is paying attention, and this is good.
Pull your head out of whatever hole you stuck it up will you!? The STFs we know today were designed TWO YEARS AGO
Of course if you were referring to the group working as a team to keep each other alive and using specific abilities for specific situations that benefit the group -- sure. However, if you are referring to the comment made about players using self-only abilities, no. I've seen team after team epicfail pugs because they all though they were some ninja in their boat and got clobbered by themselves. Likewise, I've yet to see a team fail that made notable efforts to keep each other alive and filled defined roles.
One good player is more than capable of carrying a group of 4 bad ones, how do I know? Because I've seen it done many times, I've DONE it many times, I've learned these days one has to TRY to fail a normal STF and if you can't hold your own in an elite STF, protip: DON'T PLAY THEM! Oh and... don't complain about everyone else not playing how YOU want them to, if you want trinity go play WOW or TOR...
Sorry but 1.3k to 1.6k 8 times, times 4 is way more than 2k 4 times, times 2...
Again, show me the math because every maths and parse on this forum says otherwise.
Lets look at some of the basic math:
256 dps for DHC's with +10 bonus critH, 176 dps for beam arrays, 132 dps for turrets (using some round and unmodified numbers)
DHCx4 [1024] + critH [factored at 34dps per cannon = 136] + Turx3 [396] = 1556dps raw
BAx8 = 1408 raw
Gap: 148dps
Now, start your multiplication math based on 4 consoles and power, and let me know what that dps gap is. Here lets give it a simple shot:
100 power = +100% dps:
DHC Build: 3112 dps
Ary Build: 2816 dps
Gap: 296dps
Now, for 4 VR XII consoles, we get a total factor of +42%
DHC Build: 4419.04
Ary build: 3998.72
Gap: 420.32 dps
We can go to abilities as well, such as your weapons training energy specialization etc -- the point being, the more we tack on these modifications, the bigger the DPS gap becomes.
And just a notation here, we're not even considering the power drain of 8 beams and how your rear beams become highly ineffective because of this drain (as your rear beams start at only 80ish power assuming 120 power to start), where the majority of a dhc's dps comes in from the front with only minor contribution from the rear or final 3 weapons in the chain. This means you have to run around with power efficiency to achieve any comparable dps assuming that the escort with the DHC build couldn't benefit from the buff (which being it is group buff, means that escorts would get the same benefit nullifying any point that could be argued in a pug).
For the sake of argument, lets tackle the power drain:
So in a hypothetical scenario where I use an Oddy cruiser and set all the universal boffs as anything but eng so I only have 4 eng skills, I'm still meant to healboat? Pray tell how...
ET1, EPS2, RSP2, A2si3
There you have it, because as an engineer, your miracle worker, rotate shield frequency, and RSP2 should keep you alive just fine, the other two should be generously used on others in the team. But I have a hunch your cmdr ability is aux2bat cheat. Peps would have a damned stroke if my cmdr tactical ability was APO3 in a pug being the only escort.
If in my cruiser I can stop STF spawns reaching critical targets it helps a bad team far more than me healboating does... what's the most reliable way to do this? DPS, what's the way I find most fun to do this? In a cruiser... That is so wrong and actively unhelpful because..?
Yes so you can burn the transformer yourself before anything gets to it, or is what you really just said, that everyone's dps meaning "alive players"?
Pull your head out of whatever hole you stuck it up will you!? The STFs we know today were designed TWO YEARS AGO
Sorry, that was an assumption that you were speaking on this latest content that actually requires some team effort and coordination which I think is a godsend.
One good player is more than capable of carrying a group of 4 bad ones, how do I know? Because I've seen it done many times, I've DONE it many times, I've learned these days one has to TRY to fail a normal STF and if you can't hold your own in an elite STF, protip: DON'T PLAY THEM! Oh and... don't complain about everyone else not playing how YOU want them to, if you want trinity go play WOW or TOR...
One good player making sure everyone says alive? Sure, that's called a healer. I have yet to see anyone but elitists that can run an entire STF by themselves.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Conclusion: The very premise of your crusade here is on termite infested wooden sticks at best.
Then, its time to replace the sticks.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I don't play sto to socialize, I play to pew pew in interweb spaceships. If I want to socialize I use the mmo called realife.
You don't have to socialize to display empathy and respect for other players.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Besides the fact that there are generally a tacscort and healboat in PVP in pairs, tell me how PVP relates to Pug PVE again.
Try because the pvp healboat has to counter more damage than any pve one, this the pvp one is better to build and use in pve and the thus relevant.
/Snip (Math)
Beam array Mk XII (common)
Base: 98.0 (78.4)
Level: 12*10.2 = 122.4
98.0+122.4 = 220.4
Rarity: 1
98.0*0.025 = 2.45
220.4+2.45 = 222.85
Damage pre skills and consoles: 222.85 (178.3)
On to skills...
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
98.0*1.012 = 99.17
222.85+99.17 = 322.02 (257.62)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
98.0*0.30 = 29.4
29.4*4 = 117.6
322.22+117.6 = 439.82 (351.85)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
Dual Heavy cannon Mk XII (Common)
Base: 174.0 (116.0)
Level: 12*14.2 = 170.4
174+170.4 = 344.4 (241.08)
Rarity: 1
174*0.025 = 4.35
344.4+4.35 = 348.75 (244.12)
Damage pre skills and consoles: 348.75 (244.12)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
174*1.012 = 176.08
348.75+176.08 = 524.83 (367.38)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
174*0.30 = 52.2
52.2*4 = 208.8
524.83+208.8 = 733.63 (513.54)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
45*1.012 = 45.54
97.72+45.54 = 143.26 (186.23)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
45*0.30 = 13.5
13.5*4 = 54
143.26+54 = 197.26 (256.43)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
Okay, so it's an over-estimate on the DHCs+Turrets calculations as the resources I'm using aren't particularly advanced and I can't be bothered at almost 3am to advance it beyond where it is, but it's close enough, here are my ultimate figures:
Broadside: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
DHCs+Turrets: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
+
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
(makes for 8065.06 (6482.95)
Now if we include the fact that any good beam user will run EPtW1 at least the broadside would get an extra 10% to sit both weapons systems at almost the same level of basic damage output (technically the beams should win out slightly in that situation as the base is only 2 or so damage points out so accounting fro DHC+turret drain combined should tip the balance), this also doesn't account for overcap produced by EPtW which will increase the beam damage further...
ET1, EPS2, RSP2, A2si3
There you have it, because as an engineer, your miracle worker, rotate shield frequency, and RSP2 should keep you alive just fine, the other two should be generously used on others in the team. But I have a hunch your cmdr ability is aux2bat cheat. Peps would have a damned stroke if my cmdr tactical ability was APO3 in a pug being the only escort.
This actually relies on allies to heal IT after a while when the eng captain buffs run out, the Oddy isn't known for it's ability to dodge...
Yes, dead players don't either.
If something doesn't live long enough to attack a player then a healboat or a tank is useless
Sorry what was fabricated again? Be specific.
My alleged assumptions about you.
Yes so you can burn the transformer yourself before anything gets to it, or is what you really just said, that everyone's dps meaning "alive players"?
Did it not occur to you that maybe one could sit between the enemies and the transformer and delay the enemies long enough for the other players to destroy it? One only has to kill nanite spheres afterall...
Sorry, that was an assumption that you were speaking on this latest content that actually requires some team effort and coordination which I think is a godsend.
LOL, it requires no more coordination than the old stuff, players fill gaps when they're paying any attention at all and if not they fail the mission, so be it, that's their fault, not mine.
One good player making sure everyone says alive? Sure, that's called a healer. I have yet to see anyone but elitists that can run an entire STF by themselves.
Off you go and solo the STF then because the only people who talk about how people are doing their ship wrong because they don't fit into a fantasy MMO role are elitists, have fun.
As an example, running 100 weapons power will yield a 100% bonus to weapon DPS giving an overall amount of 200% of the energy weapons base damage. However, every point under 50 in this system will lower overall DPS of each energy weapon by 2%. This means that if a player uses 25 power in the weapons subsystem then every energy weapon on the ship will only cause 50% of their original DPS.
The weapons subsystem power levels are capped at 125 power. Any extra power to this subsystem will not increase damage, but it does act as a power loss buffer.
This math is undeniably correct. This is real math backed by sources, data, and testing that are plastered all over these forums all over the wikis, and all over other guides out there that are deemed creditable and legit.
Your's is 'meth'. I noticed not a single link -- your numbers are complete and utter bullsheet with an epic failure of the power-drain mechanic. This makes you a sociopathic, manipulative, liar, and I will not entertain you further.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
This math is undeniably correct. This is real math backed by sources, data, and testing that are plastered all over these forums all over the wikis, and all over other guides out there that are deemed creditable and legit.
I know my way around power drain but would you be bothered to calculate weapon damage including skills and all at 3 in the morning and account for every point in power drain?
Your's is 'meth'. I noticed not a single link -- your numbers are complete and utter bullsheet with an epic failure of the power-drain mechanic. This makes you a sociopathic, manipulative, liar, and I will not entertain you further.
Riiiight... so because my figures based on figures from Bareel and my own testing don't agree with yours which are copy pates that I've seen many times before they are therefore "BS"? Sure... whatever you say... and if this makes me a sociopath... wow... dat logic...
PS: I should thank you for pointing out my mathematical errors on post power mod damage, they have been corrected.
This still sounds like you whining about dying in half the PUGs you were in, calling others sociopaths because they're not dedicating themselves to countering your inability to stay alive.
You're saying that reasoning/logic is synonymous of communications? L O L -- Dear God, all of political science and communications DEMANDS you throw logic out the window.
Selective quoting ftw. Also, if you took the trouble to fully read up on the dialectic method, you would understand that it revolves around a thesis-antithesis>thesis approach, and is as I said a form of dispute-based reasoning - which is synonymous with debate-based communications as pertains to the dialectic method. But of course, this is merely you attempting to cover your error with bluster.
And my dispute is that if you were, you would know it wasn't a required course and hardly covers the broad curriculum of psychology because the course itself is narrowed and specific to social group studies -- a mere figment of psychology and the study thereof -- and most importantly, entirely optional.
Discourse analysis isn't specific to social group studies, and is in fact present at the 1st year level. The basics of it are quite fundamental, because they teach students how to effectively sift data from a variety of media.
Again "Discourse 101" offered by only 2 US Universities that was searchable by the first 10 pages of Google, also very clearly explains that it is not required for psychology and the course only dabbles into special social groups (likely, as Wikipedia stated, politics, medicine, and religion being a first guess).
Riiiight... so because my figures based on figures from Bareel and my own testing don't agree with yours which are copy pates that I've seen many times before they are therefore "BS"? Sure... whatever you say... and if this makes me a sociopath... wow... dat logic...
Come to think of it, has anyone seen any of Lordlalo's "extensive parse data", that he's supposedly spent much time comparing to actual data posted by other players in opposition to his stance over multiple threads? Perhaps it is merely well buried, but there's a distinct lack of it in both this and his previous tactical officers thread.
Come to think of it, has anyone seen any of Lordlalo's "extensive parse data", that he's supposedly spent much time comparing to actual data posted by other players in opposition to his stance over multiple threads? Perhaps it is merely well buried, but there's a distinct lack of it in both this and his previous tactical officers thread.
I've been here since it started (I don't know about you) and I certainly haven't seen any, though like the previous two posters I was kind hoping this thread had finally ended, my head still hurts from all the maths I had to do...
A cruiser with an engineering captain with a playstyle of DPS -- you couldn't have given me a more self-centered, self-absorbed, sociopathic play-style if you tried; at least the Vesta can aux-DPS. And many others feel you shouldn't be rewarded for throwing your teammates under the bus either. To each his own. Hopefully Cryptic gets the hint that encouraging sociopaths is the antithesis of a healthy community.
However, allow me to add, that if others in the team (besides yourself) were doing their jobs, and a meaty ocra escort was kept alive the entire time and spammed all their dps abilities (assuming a proper boff and weapon setup), you couldn't contend -- it is against the game's mechanics. So thereby withholding a heal for that escort gives you more total damage under the current system thereby rewarding you for throwing your teammate under the bus. In a system where this wasn't rewarded or penalized, if it were rewarding for playing as a team, you would find much less reward and would be left behind in your rather self-centered play-style very quickly.
But, if you like doing all the damage and healing yourself, there are always the episodes and single-player events to play through for rep. I find your play-style rather deplorable that you are rewarded heavy amounts of reputation for doing the exact same thing you do in single-player mode while there are others out there that crave a team environment of being able to depend on another class to get their own jobs done.
I actually find your comment extremely deplorable. So you want to lock engineer captains flying ctuisers into support for others, rather than being self-sustaining? Why should anyone have to lock themselves into YOUR definition of how to play, and what skills and boff abilities to use? You sirrah, SHOULD be thrown "under the bus", for trying to force your own narrow view of how one should play, rather than encouraging diversity that allows for more fun.
Besides that, it's a nice come-uppance for all those tacscorts that think they rule all, and then find out, without any support, they're little more than moving explosions.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I actually find your comment extremely deplorable. So you want to lock engineer captains flying ctuisers into support for others, rather than being self-sustaining? Why should anyone have to lock themselves into YOUR definition of how to play, and what skills and boff abilities to use? You sirrah, SHOULD be thrown "under the bus", for trying to force your own narrow view of how one should play, rather than encouraging diversity that allows for more fun.
Besides that, it's a nice come-uppance for all those tacscorts that think they rule all, and then find out, without any support, they're little more than moving explosions.
I give you a mighty Huzzah. I manage to fully and Quite capably Dish out pain, while providing decent heals.
If i can pull 1st in CCE, while only throwing heals at the people who need them (people with half hull and missing shields) AND keeping myself alive, the TacScorts are just crying cuz they cant be healed before they pop and people are tired of them bragging while someone else does all the HARD work....
So props to all those cruiser captains out there who bring the noise, and keep their ship running!
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Now, obviously, we can't use examples such as arrests, or whatnot as an indicator in a game. However, everything that could be applied to a game, fits the definition entirely.
Disregard for right and wrong (letting someone die so they achieve a higher score in a pug PVE, check)
Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others (constantly hitting "need", check)
Intense egocentrism, sense of superiority and exhibitionism (lol check)
Repeatedly violating the rights of others by the use of intimidation, dishonesty and misrepresentation (see the folks in here that don't want this? Notice how this isn't a problem at all for them? Somehow it is all the fault of those who identify this as a problem? -- check)
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence (check)
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others (check, check, check)
Poor or abusive relationships (they're in a Pug, check)
Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior (they sometimes fail over and over again -- check)
That was about 80% of the symptoms.
Ok, I'll bite on this one. All of that could be turned around....:
Letting others die because you're too busy getting hammered, and getting the job done, but the person that died whines: check
Persistent lying: you didn't hit need when you wanted that console for a particular ship or for EC to buy something else with: check
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence (as in forcing others to play according to how YOU want them to play: check
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others (I think this rolls into the above but....): check
You're playing alone and having to PuG because you enjoy possibly meeting new people and/or your fleet members & friends tend to be on at a different time, due to scheduling change(s): Hmmm this one is uncheck....
Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior (Hmmm you still haven't learned that people have rights to behave in different ways, play in different ways, and enjoy themselves in different ways and none of that inherently constitutes "harming others): check
So you, yourself, meet those very criteria of "sociopath", according to your definition. So congrats!!!!
Oh, and one last thing, you don't have the right to take away people's basic right to be an a**hole. (Forget what book that came out of), but it's very true. Because what one considers wrong behaviour, is generally something that merely doesn't benefit them (or their close ones). Not all the time does that rule hold, but look at 90& of what people call "wrong behaviour", and I guarantee you'll see it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Oh, and one last thing, you don't have the right to take away people's basic right to be an a**hole. (Forget what book that came out of), but it's very true.
I heard a similar quote in Demolition Man, but I prefer:
"Being miserable, and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker's God given right."
-Mayor from Ghostbusters II
I think it applies to everyone though, not just New Yorkers
WOW. Thanks for this, because it shows exactly how absurd your position is.
Let's take a look at these one at a time, shall we? (TL/DR: They are all based on the OPs absurd judgements about others, especially in regards to assuming hostility is the only possible reason for certain behaviors to happen.)
First:
Disregard for right and wrong (letting someone die so they achieve a higher score in a pug PVE, check)
You are making a huge, problematic assumption here when you assert that a lack of heals comes from spiteful intention, and not any of the myriad of other reasons a heal might not happen (they are on cooldown, you are out of range, you die too fast for the healer to get the heal off, someone else needed the heal more, your team expected you to be someone self-sufficient, etc.). I think you are also massively overstating the morality at play here - nobody is literally dying, it's merely a game. If you were right that individual performance affected individual rewards in STFs (and you flat out are wrong about that - it's only Fleet Actions like CE and Gorn minefield where this happens), the morality here would be more like not stopping in a race to help someone who tripped. Hardly sociopathic, at least any more than any kind of competition is sociopathic.
Second:
Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others (constantly hitting "need", check)
This is... I don't even know how you are justifying this connection in your head. There's no dishonesty or deceit here, certainly, since the selection of "need" or "greed" is announced in the system chat, so everyone sees what other people picked. If you are saying that "need" is exploitative of others, I disagree, but it doesn't even matter - the standard is 'using deception to exploit others', which can't happen here since deception is functionally impossible. At best, someone could lie and say they pick "greed" and pick "need" instead, but that works only once, and often not even then. The fact is, there shouldn't be "need" and "greed" options to begin with - it should just be "roll" or "pass", but whatever. At the core, rolling on team loot is certainly not more exploitative of your teammates than (say) expecting them to heal you or debuff your targets for you.
Third:
Intense egocentrism, sense of superiority and exhibitionism (lol check)
Here I think you're just confusing your sense of inferiority and frustration that other players don't let your special little star shine as brightly as you think it should with an active sense of superiority from them. Other players likely don't even bother to consider your performance in relation to their own, except in particularly extreme cases of competence/incompetence. The fact that you assume other players are automatically judging you says more about how YOU behave, and less about what others are really doing.
Repeatedly violating the rights of others by the use of intimidation, dishonesty and misrepresentation (see the folks in here that don't want this? Notice how this isn't a problem at all for them? Somehow it is all the fault of those who identify this as a problem? -- check)
LOL. So, so many problems. Let's start with the classic from the first example - you are again assuming intention where none exists. You actually started off this in your very first post, by outright stating that people who disagreed with you are likely to be sociopaths. I'm certainly not one, I just think your position is absurd and your proposal is actively bad for the game. Your response will be "then give some constructive feedback", but I don't think there is any constructive feedback possible beyond "abandon this idea because it is terrible". You started from faulty assumptions and proceeded to come to an absurd conclusion. No amount of tweaking will fix that.
In addition, you have made a huge mistake here in that you've shifted away from discussing the behaviors of players in the game to the behaviors of posters on the forums. This again shows that you have trouble recognizing that the judgements you make about people may be more about your emotional reaction to what you assume those players are doing/thinking, rather than anything real that is happening. Certainly you have no objective basis for concluding that people who disagree with you here are also "sociopaths" in the game.
Finally, I would be tickled to know what "right" you feel is being infringed on? Seriously - if you think that you have a "right" to your preferred brand of teamwork and a "right" to have players do what you think they should do, why does that not cut both ways? Why don't "sociopaths" have a right to demand that you change to suit their play style, rather than the reverse?
Next up, we'll deal with these together:
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence (check)
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others (check, check, check)
There's not much I can say here that I haven't already, but I just want to emphasize, again, that your assumption that the silence and lack of teamwork from other players is evidence of these behaviors says much more about how you judge other players, and virtually nothing of value about the people you are judging. Maybe the problem isn't that other players are hostile in general, maybe they just react with hostility when you attack them for being hostile?
Or maybe it's even more tragi-comic than that? Maybe you don't say anything to anyone else because you assume they will respond with hostility, and then you judge them on the basis of that untested assumption? Might it be that often far from being teams of "sociopaths", you have a team of 5 players who are too timid to break the ice in chat, for fear that one player might snap at them? Is it possible that threads like this, where someone uses baseless assumptions to pass unwarranted judgements against other players do more harm than good?
Here's one that's just offensive:
Poor or abusive relationships (they're in a Pug, check)
Yeah, good job with lack of perspective and understanding. Being on a random team with 4 other people doesn't automatically qualify as a "poor" relationship, and certainly doesn't meet the standard of an abusive one. But way to trivialize that idea in a vain attempt to make your point.
Last, but not least:
Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior (they sometimes fail over and over again -- check)
I suspect you're misusing this concept as well, as I suspect the "negative consequences" that sociopaths ignore are the ones that happen to other people, not themselves. I think your confusing players who are bad, or who take longer to learn, with players who are uncaring about others. Indeed, the self-interested nature of sociopaths seems to be directly at odds with the idea that they would fail to learn from repeated personal failure.
Few. Well, that was fun, thanks for exposing your argument explicitly so we could see how bad it was! I hope you've learned something from the negative experience of having your position so completely demolished. If not, well, I know someone who might think you're a sociopath...
Actually, this one was better than my breakdown, lol! Good work. (*Bows*)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I heard a similar quote in Demolition Man, but I prefer:
"Being miserable, and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker's God given right."
-Mayor from Ghostbusters II
I think it applies to everyone though, not just New Yorkers
Common Colloqiualism for people from Mass: Ma**holes. Freedom baby, i can be a D**k to whoever i want, the joyous part? They get to be a D**k right back!
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
http://www.umkc.edu/core/courses/index.cfm?sortCol=attr_desc&sortOrder=ASC
Curriculum description:
Notice that DISC 100, 200, or 300 is not a pre-requisite of anything nor is it required for a psychology major. Notice as well "specific social groups..."? Mmmmm.
To be fair, the courses I took are:
Social Behavior
Business Ethics and Communications
Social Problems
Those were my communications classes not counting mandatory Engrish :P. Granted its been a while, so there likely may be something I forgot to plop on that list.
Dispute-based reasoning is synonymous with debate-based communications. As for there not being a "discourse 101", were you a psych major you'd have invariably come across the terminology - and frankly it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
It is just sad that most of any forums these days are just about arguing about who is right and who is wrong and issues that originally were wished to adress got lost in the stupid arguments.
Hardly anything constructive. What does it matter who is right and who is wrong if all the issues left unadressed?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tempers
Online
You're saying that reasoning/logic is synonymous of communications? L O L -- Dear God, all of political science and communications DEMANDS you throw logic out the window. And my dispute is that if you were, you would know it wasn't a required course and hardly covers the broad curriculum of psychology because the course itself is narrowed and specific to social group studies -- a mere figment of psychology and the study thereof -- and most importantly, entirely optional.
Again "Discourse 101" offered by only 2 US Universities that was searchable by the first 10 pages of Google, also very clearly explains that it is not required for psychology and the course only dabbles into special social groups (likely, as Wikipedia stated, politics, medicine, and religion being a first guess).
I agree and digress. The problem you are seeing with the arguments is folks stating that there are no problems or if they can admit there is a problem, their "sole" solution is abstinence while turning a blind eye.
No, but you should know that a good healboat doesn't use weapon power, thus any weapons on one would be so low damage as to be as good as no weapons at all.
I would beg to differ, I am also willing to show you what they are capable of if you so wish.
This is a major flaw in your assessment of ships, not all cruisers are designed as healboats or as tanks, some are built purely to dps, the Excelsior for example is well known as a TACTICAL cruiser used for applying DPS, not heals, this is why DEM3 (one of the most used cruiser skills in the game) is an engineer captain trained skill that takes an engineering COMMANDER slot
Wrong again, I've voiced no assumptions about you, only what you've told us, maybe you should stop making assumptions.
I also play all the classes and all their respective ship classes, I have no issue doing what I want in any of them, what you seem to be incapable of getting your head around is how something like my ship or anything for that matter that doesn't fit your mold can benefit a team, or play for a team, yet in the current pve meta, a dps cruiser is of more use to a team than a healboat or a straight tank, especially as threat control is tied to high damage output (e.g. if you have a cruiser with 9 points in TC and 3 or 4 +th consoles doing no damage and an escort doing lots of damage, the npc WILL attack the escort and laugh at the tank)
The thing is... endgame pve is built around EXACTLY the kind of group you just described such that EXACTLY this sort of group is capable of completing it.
And by the way, just because you are teamed up with someone does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that you have to socialize with them. Yes I will admit that communication in pugs could be a little better, but you do not have to socialize. It's just like at the workplace. Just because you work with someone does not mean you have to socialize with them. And you are also forgetting the meaning of multiplayer. Multiplayer just means that more than one person can play the game at once. It does not mean you have to team up with, or even "socialize" with anyone.
But hey, please continue with your elitist whining, the STO community is thoroughly enjoying a great laugh at your expense. At least I am.:D
You don't need your aux jacked up to 130 to keep someone alive. Again, you're being silly and again assuming I haven't played a cruiser/engineer.
Show me the math. Show me the side-by-side parses. There are parses and debates all over these forums to prove otherwise.
Your abilities are determined by your boff loadout -- ships do not innately grant an ability with the exception of science ships (well and cruisers now with communication arrays). The power in a ship is the boff layout and that is the point. If you have a Commander of engineering then you're a healer by the game's design, but of course, you could use the bit of sociopathy to distort this to all self-only abilities like aux2bat cheat, EPx, and RSP. But then again who are you benefiting? Your team? Or yourself?
No, you've assumed three times (maybe more) that this thread is somehow about me. You've also, again from your own writings, assumed that I only play a tacscort being I use it heavily as an example. These are assumptions.
It doesn't benefit a blind team that has no clue who's going to be their team-mate. It also doesn't benefit a team to only classify drop ranks to dps. It also doesn't benefit a team to encourage players to let dps classes die for doing what they were intended to do. It also doesn't benefit a soul to come here acting like it does -- even yourself in the long-run.
Which means someone at PWE is paying attention, and this is good -- that is, of course, if you were referring to the group working as a team to keep each other alive and using specific abilities for specific situations that benefit the group in the Dyson content. However, if you are referring to the comment made about players using self-only abilities, no. I've seen team after team epicfail pugs because they all thought they were some ship-ninja in their boat and got clobbered while thinking the could take the content themselves and while everyone else was regrouping (I lol hard at these, sitting back and taking bets on when they will get the hint is most entertaining). Likewise, I've yet to see a team fail that made notable efforts to keep each other alive and filled defined roles, regardless of gear OR experience.
It's silly now to build a healboat to PvP standard?
Sorry but 1.3k to 1.6k 8 times, times 4 is way more than 2k 4 times, times 2...
So in a hypothetical scenario where I use an Oddy cruiser and set all the universal boffs as anything but eng so I only have 4 eng skills, I'm still meant to healboat? Pray tell how...
Using an Aux2Batt dps cruiser build (which I don't) does benefit a team because DEAD THINGS DON'T SHOOT BACK!
You sir need to stop fabricating TRIBBLE, it doesn't help your argument...
If in my cruiser I can stop STF spawns reaching critical targets it helps a bad team far more than me healboating does... what's the most reliable way to do this? DPS, what's the way I find most fun to do this? In a cruiser... That is so wrong and actively unhelpful because..?
Pull your head out of whatever hole you stuck it up will you!? The STFs we know today were designed TWO YEARS AGO
One good player is more than capable of carrying a group of 4 bad ones, how do I know? Because I've seen it done many times, I've DONE it many times, I've learned these days one has to TRY to fail a normal STF and if you can't hold your own in an elite STF, protip: DON'T PLAY THEM! Oh and... don't complain about everyone else not playing how YOU want them to, if you want trinity go play WOW or TOR...
Besides the fact that there are generally a tacscort and healboat in PVP in pairs, tell me how PVP relates to Pug PVE again.
Again, show me the math because every maths and parse on this forum says otherwise.
Lets look at some of the basic math:
256 dps for DHC's with +10 bonus critH, 176 dps for beam arrays, 132 dps for turrets (using some round and unmodified numbers)
DHCx4 [1024] + critH [factored at 34dps per cannon = 136] + Turx3 [396] = 1556dps raw
BAx8 = 1408 raw
Gap: 148dps
Now, start your multiplication math based on 4 consoles and power, and let me know what that dps gap is. Here lets give it a simple shot:
100 power = +100% dps:
DHC Build: 3112 dps
Ary Build: 2816 dps
Gap: 296dps
Now, for 4 VR XII consoles, we get a total factor of +42%
DHC Build: 4419.04
Ary build: 3998.72
Gap: 420.32 dps
We can go to abilities as well, such as your weapons training energy specialization etc -- the point being, the more we tack on these modifications, the bigger the DPS gap becomes.
And just a notation here, we're not even considering the power drain of 8 beams and how your rear beams become highly ineffective because of this drain (as your rear beams start at only 80ish power assuming 120 power to start), where the majority of a dhc's dps comes in from the front with only minor contribution from the rear or final 3 weapons in the chain. This means you have to run around with power efficiency to achieve any comparable dps assuming that the escort with the DHC build couldn't benefit from the buff (which being it is group buff, means that escorts would get the same benefit nullifying any point that could be argued in a pug).
For the sake of argument, lets tackle the power drain:
(assuming 100 power)
DHC1 = 512 [256 base]
DHC2 = 451 @ 88 pwr [+76%]
DHC3 = 389 @ 76 pwr [+52%]
DHC4 = 328 @ 64 pwr[+28%]
TUR1 = 148 @ 56 pwr [+12%] [132 base]
TUR2 = 127 @ 48 pwr [-4%]
TUR3 = 106 @ 40 pwr [-20%]
Total DPS: 2061
Plus CrtH: 2197
Now
BA1 = 352 [176 base]
BA2 = 317 @ 90 pwr [+80%]
BA3 = 282 @ 80 pwr [+60%]
BA4 = 246 @ 70 pwr [+40%]
BA5 = 211 @ 60 pwr [+20%]
BA6 = 176 @ 50 pwr [ - ]
BA7 = 141 @ 40 pwr [-20%]
BA8 = 106 @ 30 pwr [-40%]
Total DPS: 1831
Gap: 366 (17%)
ET1, EPS2, RSP2, A2si3
There you have it, because as an engineer, your miracle worker, rotate shield frequency, and RSP2 should keep you alive just fine, the other two should be generously used on others in the team. But I have a hunch your cmdr ability is aux2bat cheat. Peps would have a damned stroke if my cmdr tactical ability was APO3 in a pug being the only escort.
Yes, dead players don't either.
Sorry what was fabricated again? Be specific.
Yes so you can burn the transformer yourself before anything gets to it, or is what you really just said, that everyone's dps meaning "alive players"?
Sorry, that was an assumption that you were speaking on this latest content that actually requires some team effort and coordination which I think is a godsend.
One good player making sure everyone says alive? Sure, that's called a healer. I have yet to see anyone but elitists that can run an entire STF by themselves.
Engineers are tinkerers...
May I remind you of... let's say... Turret Fabrication Kits?
Not very healy aren't they.
And IF they would have been designed to ONLY heal... why are there so many different Abilites facilitating a myriad of different combinations?
Same goes for Science... IF they were designed as pure CC and Debuff... why are there so many funky abilities?
Reason: Engineers are NOT designed as pure Healers and Science is NOT designed as pure CC/Debuff.
Conclusion: The very premise of your crusade here is on termite infested wooden sticks at best.
Then, its time to replace the sticks.
You don't have to socialize to display empathy and respect for other players.
Try because the pvp healboat has to counter more damage than any pve one, this the pvp one is better to build and use in pve and the thus relevant.
Beam array Mk XII (common)
Base: 98.0 (78.4)
Level: 12*10.2 = 122.4
98.0+122.4 = 220.4
Rarity: 1
98.0*0.025 = 2.45
220.4+2.45 = 222.85
Damage pre skills and consoles: 222.85 (178.3)
On to skills...
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
98.0*1.012 = 99.17
222.85+99.17 = 322.02 (257.62)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
98.0*0.30 = 29.4
29.4*4 = 117.6
322.22+117.6 = 439.82 (351.85)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
Dual Heavy cannon Mk XII (Common)
Base: 174.0 (116.0)
Level: 12*14.2 = 170.4
174+170.4 = 344.4 (241.08)
Rarity: 1
174*0.025 = 4.35
344.4+4.35 = 348.75 (244.12)
Damage pre skills and consoles: 348.75 (244.12)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
174*1.012 = 176.08
348.75+176.08 = 524.83 (367.38)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
174*0.30 = 52.2
52.2*4 = 208.8
524.83+208.8 = 733.63 (513.54)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
Turret Mk XII (Common)
Base: 45 (60)
Level: 12*4.3 = 51.6
45+51.6 = 96.6 (125.58)
Rarity: 1
45*0.025 = 1.12
96.6+1.12 = 97.72 (127.04)
Damage pre skills and consoles: 97.72 (127.04)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
45*1.012 = 45.54
97.72+45.54 = 143.26 (186.23)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
45*0.30 = 13.5
13.5*4 = 54
143.26+54 = 197.26 (256.43)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
Okay, so it's an over-estimate on the DHCs+Turrets calculations as the resources I'm using aren't particularly advanced and I can't be bothered at almost 3am to advance it beyond where it is, but it's close enough, here are my ultimate figures:
Broadside: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
DHCs+Turrets: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
+
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
(makes for 8065.06 (6482.95)
Now if we include the fact that any good beam user will run EPtW1 at least the broadside would get an extra 10% to sit both weapons systems at almost the same level of basic damage output (technically the beams should win out slightly in that situation as the base is only 2 or so damage points out so accounting fro DHC+turret drain combined should tip the balance), this also doesn't account for overcap produced by EPtW which will increase the beam damage further...
This actually relies on allies to heal IT after a while when the eng captain buffs run out, the Oddy isn't known for it's ability to dodge...
If something doesn't live long enough to attack a player then a healboat or a tank is useless
My alleged assumptions about you.
Did it not occur to you that maybe one could sit between the enemies and the transformer and delay the enemies long enough for the other players to destroy it? One only has to kill nanite spheres afterall...
LOL, it requires no more coordination than the old stuff, players fill gaps when they're paying any attention at all and if not they fail the mission, so be it, that's their fault, not mine.
Off you go and solo the STF then because the only people who talk about how people are doing their ship wrong because they don't fit into a fantasy MMO role are elitists, have fun.
This is called 'meth' not math.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Starship_(Power_and_Subsystems)
This math is undeniably correct. This is real math backed by sources, data, and testing that are plastered all over these forums all over the wikis, and all over other guides out there that are deemed creditable and legit.
http://deepspacealliance.blogspot.com/2012/08/game-mechanics-revealed-dual-cannons-vs.html As example of the comparison of DC vs DHC but explains the power drain very well.
Your's is 'meth'. I noticed not a single link -- your numbers are complete and utter bullsheet with an epic failure of the power-drain mechanic. This makes you a sociopathic, manipulative, liar, and I will not entertain you further.
Sorry, where I come from mathematics is maths regardless of what form it should take.
I know my way around power drain but would you be bothered to calculate weapon damage including skills and all at 3 in the morning and account for every point in power drain?
Riiiight... so because my figures based on figures from Bareel and my own testing don't agree with yours which are copy pates that I've seen many times before they are therefore "BS"? Sure... whatever you say... and if this makes me a sociopath... wow... dat logic...
PS: I should thank you for pointing out my mathematical errors on post power mod damage, they have been corrected.
Yes you are right! It is good that you finally see this
I am glad you've come to your senses.
It is always good to see someone change for the better in the face of facts
Thumbs up for that!
Although I am guessing you simply did not understand or cared about what I have written there...
This still sounds like you whining about dying in half the PUGs you were in, calling others sociopaths because they're not dedicating themselves to countering your inability to stay alive.
OP FIND a better sociable Fleet or continue to PUG until insanity kicks in.
I second this motion.
Selective quoting ftw. Also, if you took the trouble to fully read up on the dialectic method, you would understand that it revolves around a thesis-antithesis>thesis approach, and is as I said a form of dispute-based reasoning - which is synonymous with debate-based communications as pertains to the dialectic method. But of course, this is merely you attempting to cover your error with bluster.
Discourse analysis isn't specific to social group studies, and is in fact present at the 1st year level. The basics of it are quite fundamental, because they teach students how to effectively sift data from a variety of media.
Since you're a fan of wikipedia, take a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_%28term%29
The module isn't labelled "discourse" at every university everywhere, but nonetheless it is there.
Come to think of it, has anyone seen any of Lordlalo's "extensive parse data", that he's supposedly spent much time comparing to actual data posted by other players in opposition to his stance over multiple threads? Perhaps it is merely well buried, but there's a distinct lack of it in both this and his previous tactical officers thread.
I've been here since it started (I don't know about you) and I certainly haven't seen any, though like the previous two posters I was kind hoping this thread had finally ended, my head still hurts from all the maths I had to do...
Besides that, it's a nice come-uppance for all those tacscorts that think they rule all, and then find out, without any support, they're little more than moving explosions.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I give you a mighty Huzzah. I manage to fully and Quite capably Dish out pain, while providing decent heals.
If i can pull 1st in CCE, while only throwing heals at the people who need them (people with half hull and missing shields) AND keeping myself alive, the TacScorts are just crying cuz they cant be healed before they pop and people are tired of them bragging while someone else does all the HARD work....
So props to all those cruiser captains out there who bring the noise, and keep their ship running!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ok, I'll bite on this one. All of that could be turned around....:
Letting others die because you're too busy getting hammered, and getting the job done, but the person that died whines: check
Persistent lying: you didn't hit need when you wanted that console for a particular ship or for EC to buy something else with: check
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence (as in forcing others to play according to how YOU want them to play: check
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others (I think this rolls into the above but....): check
You're playing alone and having to PuG because you enjoy possibly meeting new people and/or your fleet members & friends tend to be on at a different time, due to scheduling change(s): Hmmm this one is uncheck....
Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior (Hmmm you still haven't learned that people have rights to behave in different ways, play in different ways, and enjoy themselves in different ways and none of that inherently constitutes "harming others): check
So you, yourself, meet those very criteria of "sociopath", according to your definition. So congrats!!!!
Oh, and one last thing, you don't have the right to take away people's basic right to be an a**hole. (Forget what book that came out of), but it's very true. Because what one considers wrong behaviour, is generally something that merely doesn't benefit them (or their close ones). Not all the time does that rule hold, but look at 90& of what people call "wrong behaviour", and I guarantee you'll see it.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I heard a similar quote in Demolition Man, but I prefer:
"Being miserable, and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker's God given right."
-Mayor from Ghostbusters II
I think it applies to everyone though, not just New Yorkers
Actually, this one was better than my breakdown, lol! Good work. (*Bows*)
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Common Colloqiualism for people from Mass: Ma**holes. Freedom baby, i can be a D**k to whoever i want, the joyous part? They get to be a D**k right back!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]