or maybe, to use amodern fad of thought, its caused by morphic fields? You know thrm fields in nature that means two guys thousands of miles away know to eat a banana by peeling it first.
Taking a "Selfie" photo of your Captain is also Sociopathic by the OP's logic..:D
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Let me get this straight, because I don't make every effort to be politically correct, I'm wrong? Oh no, I don't think so. You won't find a single reply I've made discrediting someone's facts or ideas because they presented it in an honest and straight forward manner with no consideration of political correctness injected -- never. Facts aren't debatable, end of story.
Political correctness? Well that's another one of your previous assertions debunked - if you actually had the relevant credentials, you'd be able to fathom what I'm talking about instead of running with the sort of erroneous assumption I'd expect from a layman. It's painfully obvious now that you don't though, so please continue making slip-ups - when you're trying to weave a tangled web of obfuscation, it often becomes hard to keep track of it all.
You 'think' you do? This would imply that you have challenged yourself at some point to verify this, which I can't imagine has happened yet. Case in point.
Let me break it down for you even further. This is supposition based on your idea of how the game works. It doesn't in any way represent every fleet.
Right, we're speaking on a subject that covers 99% of pugs, so therefor you want to touch on the 1% of fleets that for the time being fits into the exception category and expect players to be able to easily find these fleets through the haystack. Good point /sarcasm.
I don't have any problem working together with anyone in our fleet.
Driving around in your cruiser pew-pewing and being dazzled by the flashy lights is not working with them. That's working for yourself. If however you are running around healing when you loose agro, and doing everything within your power and ability to prevent a death in your team -- then why the hell are you arguing with me?
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Political correctness? Well that's another one of your previous assertions debunked - if you actually had the relevant credentials, you'd be able to fathom what I'm talking about instead of running with the sort of erroneous assumption I'd expect from a layman. It's painfully obvious now that you don't though, so please continue making slip-ups - when you're trying to weave a tangled web of obfuscation, it often becomes hard to keep track of it all.
Obvious lie is obvious -- I've N E V E R claimed to be PC or to be the PC Police. You can either cite yourself now or stop the libel.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Taking a "Selfie" photo of your Captain is also Sociopathic by the OP's logic..:D
That was funny. I may just put that in my signature :P
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Your writings over the course of the recent threads that you've started are like a sample case for discourse 101. You might want to more thoroughly plan out your agenda when it comes to future efforts, because the anomalies are too easy to spot.
The totality of codified language (vocabulary) used in a given field of intellectual enquiry and of social practice, such as legal discourse, medical discourse, religious discourse, et cetera.[2]
So, I'm that sample case study in discourse 101 (which is also referred to as political science 101), therefor incorrect based upon the fact I choose not to be PC (which is what these studies -- if you've taken them -- demonstrate by showing an extreme case of either-or).
Please, keep bringing your politics into it....
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
You turned to wikipedia - ouch! Oh, and discourse 101 is a core psych module - surely you know that?
Then surely you would have used the correct terminology for the curriculum itself -- The Dialectical Method -- instead of enshrouding your statement so it could be subjected to interpretation. Considering your acclaimed high level of intellect, one can only conclude this was your intent.
a formal discussion of a subject in speech or writing, as a dissertation, treatise, sermon, etc.
Now, tell me, what is formal about a game? This again falls under political science and other political studies.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Then surely you would have used the correct terminology for the course itself -- The Dialectical Method
The dialectic method is a form of dispute-based reasoning, which is a single facet of the discourse analysis module, not the module itself.
You're missing the point though. You should know this already, but you clearly don't - which blows a rather massive hole in the ostensible credibility of one of your previous posts in this very thread. I'd hedge at this point that you can't even remember half of the other personal "factoids" you've made reference to across various threads in order to attempt to bolster your credibility.
The dialectic method is a form of dispute-based reasoning, which is a single facet of the discourse analysis module, not the module itself.
No, it is debate based communications (of any kind) which covers discourse in a very small segment, which is obvious what you're doing and obviously what my OP was doing. There is no such thing as "Discourse 101" lol.
Category Description: Students gain skills in intellectual discourse, including constructing cogent arguments, locating, synthesizing and analyzing documents, and writing and speaking clearly, coherently, and effectively.
Courses that satisfy this degree requirement include:
CST 105-Introduction to Communication Studies
ENG 102-College Writing II
ENG 103-Essentials of Professional and Business Writing (restricted to specific Learning Communities)
ENG 230-Writing/Workplace/Public Audiences
FMS 116-Freshman Seminar in Reasoning and Discourse II (restricted to freshmen only)
PHI 115-Practical Reasoning
PHI 310-Introduction to Formal Logic
PSY 318- Belief in Wierd Things (prerequisite PSY 121)
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
When you queue up blind for any group content you are rolling the dice and you will have to live with the end result.
It has been said a billion times that it is better to run group content with friends or fleet mates and if you have neither you can also use Group Channels to find likeminded players to run group content with.
Pugging can be its own punishment and complaining about it over and over again when there are much better options open to us all for teaming is the new definition of Insanity.
Pugging is a choice not a necessity.
Not a choice for sociopaths if you have been paying attention.
Sociopaths don't like or need friends, except in group forcing MMO games.
?Discourse? refers to the language, images, styles, genres, behaviors and other forms of communication used by specific social and professional groups. The techniques of discourse analysis and language awareness taught in this course will enable you to position yourself socially and professionally, helping you understand the discourse conventions, reasoning, and "commonsense" assumptions that create and define academic, political, professional, and other discourse formations and communities. Students will produce, perform, and analyze college-level, oral and written texts; and they will learn how written and oral performances function together in specific discourse communities. Co-requisite: Anchor I: Reasoning and Values (Interdisciplinary)
Notice that DISC 100, 200, or 300 is not a pre-requisite of anything nor is it required for a psychology major. Notice as well "specific social groups..."? Mmmmm.
To be fair, the courses I took are:
Social Behavior
Business Ethics and Communications
Social Problems
Those were my communications classes not counting mandatory Engrish :P. Granted its been a while, so there likely may be something I forgot to plop on that list.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
No, it is debate based communications (of any kind) which covers discourse in a very small segment, which is obvious what you're doing and obviously what my OP was doing. There is no such thing as "Discourse 101" lol.
Dispute-based reasoning is synonymous with debate-based communications. As for there not being a "discourse 101", were you a psych major you'd have invariably come across the terminology - and frankly it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
Petty arguments for couple of pages that leads nowhere. Is that not a bit childish?
It is just sad that most of any forums these days are just about arguing about who is right and who is wrong and issues that originally were wished to adress got lost in the stupid arguments.
Hardly anything constructive. What does it matter who is right and who is wrong if all the issues left unadressed?
Dispute-based reasoning is synonymous with debate-based communications. As for there not being a "discourse 101", were you a psych major you'd have invariably come across the terminology - and frankly it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
You're saying that reasoning/logic is synonymous of communications? L O L -- Dear God, all of political science and communications DEMANDS you throw logic out the window. And my dispute is that if you were, you would know it wasn't a required course and hardly covers the broad curriculum of psychology because the course itself is narrowed and specific to social group studies -- a mere figment of psychology and the study thereof -- and most importantly, entirely optional.
Again "Discourse 101" offered by only 2 US Universities that was searchable by the first 10 pages of Google, also very clearly explains that it is not required for psychology and the course only dabbles into special social groups (likely, as Wikipedia stated, politics, medicine, and religion being a first guess).
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Petty arguments for couple of pages that leads nowhere. Is that not a bit childish?
It is just sad that most of any forums these days are just about arguing about who is right and who is wrong and issues that originally were wished to adress got lost in the stupid arguments.
Hardly anything constructive. What does it matter who is right and who is wrong if all the issues left unadressed?
I agree and digress. The problem you are seeing with the arguments is folks stating that there are no problems or if they can admit there is a problem, their "sole" solution is abstinence while turning a blind eye.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Yeah, sure equip no weapons -- indeed what was said. I said stop being silly, yet you get sillier.
No, but you should know that a good healboat doesn't use weapon power, thus any weapons on one would be so low damage as to be as good as no weapons at all.
You could get 10 (maybe it was 8 IDK, not debating the semantics) tac consoles on a beam array boat and still couldn't match the dps of 4 DHC's.
I would beg to differ, I am also willing to show you what they are capable of if you so wish.
I'm saying I don't care what cruiser you're in, if you're not healing your team mates or make a d-bag comment that I witnessed in a team just 2 weeks ago such as, "I'm not going to heal because I won't get first place" this system is broken as-is, and you're a d-bag for even entertaining the idea that it is kosher to throw a team mate under the bus because of his ship/class.
This is a major flaw in your assessment of ships, not all cruisers are designed as healboats or as tanks, some are built purely to dps, the Excelsior for example is well known as a TACTICAL cruiser used for applying DPS, not heals, this is why DEM3 (one of the most used cruiser skills in the game) is an engineer captain trained skill that takes an engineering COMMANDER slot
You know what your problem is right? Besides failure to read and understand you are assuming many things about me here:
1) That this thread somehow benefits me
2) That I don't have every class/ship/faction available
3) That I have no knowledge of the other classes and ships
Wrong again, I've voiced no assumptions about you, only what you've told us, maybe you should stop making assumptions.
You see, I have a fed tactical (yes it is my favorite), fed engineer, fed sci, rom tact, rom engineer, rom sci, etc for KDF. All VA's mind you, all with either a t5 fleet ship or comparable cstore ship. The problem is, I don't play these classes selfishly, when in a cruiser I do my best to tank and heal those who catch agro -- obviously if I don't have agro, its already my fault that they're tanking so tossing them a heal is the least I can do. When playing a sci ship/captain its much like a hybrid escort / cruiser -- while making sure I'm on top of the spot heals, I'm also ensuring that the mob is debuffed, while trying to put out as much dps as possible (which isn't much and is why I focus on order, heals, and debuffs) and providing some order to the fight with gravity wells.
I also play all the classes and all their respective ship classes, I have no issue doing what I want in any of them, what you seem to be incapable of getting your head around is how something like my ship or anything for that matter that doesn't fit your mold can benefit a team, or play for a team, yet in the current pve meta, a dps cruiser is of more use to a team than a healboat or a straight tank, especially as threat control is tied to high damage output (e.g. if you have a cruiser with 9 points in TC and 3 or 4 +th consoles doing no damage and an escort doing lots of damage, the npc WILL attack the escort and laugh at the tank)
The problem being, the moment one enters into an elite pug, those not playing with consideration of the team in mind, are effectively LEECHING because there is no way in hell they would complete the pug with 4 others like themselves (theory tested several times by purposely leaving and receiving hate tells blaming me for them loosing)
The thing is... endgame pve is built around EXACTLY the kind of group you just described such that EXACTLY this sort of group is capable of completing it.
I do have to say this is one of the most entertaining whine threads I've seen in a long time. And yes, OP, you can say what you want and think what you want, but this is nothing more than a "people don't play the game the way I want them to so they are idiots" whine thread. Just a little more entertaining than usual.
And by the way, just because you are teamed up with someone does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that you have to socialize with them. Yes I will admit that communication in pugs could be a little better, but you do not have to socialize. It's just like at the workplace. Just because you work with someone does not mean you have to socialize with them. And you are also forgetting the meaning of multiplayer. Multiplayer just means that more than one person can play the game at once. It does not mean you have to team up with, or even "socialize" with anyone.
But hey, please continue with your elitist whining, the STO community is thoroughly enjoying a great laugh at your expense. At least I am.:D
I don't care what the header says, I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be, an "ARC user".
No, but you should know that a good healboat doesn't use weapon power, thus any weapons on one would be so low damage as to be as good as no weapons at all.
You don't need your aux jacked up to 130 to keep someone alive. Again, you're being silly and again assuming I haven't played a cruiser/engineer.
This is a major flaw in your assessment of ships, not all cruisers are designed as healboats or as tanks, some are built purely to dps, the Excelsior for example is well known as a TACTICAL cruiser used for applying DPS, not heals, this is why DEM3 (one of the most used cruiser skills in the game) is an engineer captain trained skill that takes an engineering COMMANDER slot
Your abilities are determined by your boff loadout -- ships do not innately grant an ability with the exception of science ships (well and cruisers now with communication arrays). The power in a ship is the boff layout and that is the point. If you have a Commander of engineering then you're a healer by the game's design, but of course, you could use the bit of sociopathy to distort this to all self-only abilities like aux2bat cheat, EPx, and RSP. But then again who are you benefiting? Your team? Or yourself?
Wrong again, I've voiced no assumptions about you, only what you've told us, maybe you should stop making assumptions.
No, you've assumed three times (maybe more) that this thread is somehow about me. You've also, again from your own writings, assumed that I only play a tacscort being I use it heavily as an example. These are assumptions.
I also play all the classes and all their respective ship classes, I have no issue doing what I want in any of them, what you seem to be incapable of getting your head around is how something like my ship or anything for that matter that doesn't fit your mold can benefit a team, or play for a team, yet in the current pve meta, a dps cruiser is of more use to a team than a healboat or a straight tank, especially as threat control is tied to high damage output (e.g. if you have a cruiser with 9 points in TC and 3 or 4 +th consoles doing no damage and an escort doing lots of damage, the npc WILL attack the escort and laugh at the tank)
It doesn't benefit a blind team that has no clue who's going to be their team-mate. It also doesn't benefit a team to only classify drop ranks to dps. It also doesn't benefit a team to encourage players to let dps classes die for doing what they were intended to do. It also doesn't benefit a soul to come here acting like it does -- even yourself in the long-run.
The thing is... endgame pve is built around EXACTLY the kind of group you just described such that EXACTLY this sort of group is capable of completing it.
Which means someone at PWE is paying attention, and this is good -- that is, of course, if you were referring to the group working as a team to keep each other alive and using specific abilities for specific situations that benefit the group in the Dyson content. However, if you are referring to the comment made about players using self-only abilities, no. I've seen team after team epicfail pugs because they all thought they were some ship-ninja in their boat and got clobbered while thinking the could take the content themselves and while everyone else was regrouping (I lol hard at these, sitting back and taking bets on when they will get the hint is most entertaining). Likewise, I've yet to see a team fail that made notable efforts to keep each other alive and filled defined roles, regardless of gear OR experience.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
You don't need your aux jacked up to 130 to keep someone alive. Again, you're being silly.
It's silly now to build a healboat to PvP standard?
Show me the math. Show me the side-by-side parses. There are parses and debates all over these forums to prove otherwise.
Sorry but 1.3k to 1.6k 8 times, times 4 is way more than 2k 4 times, times 2...
Your abilities are determined by your boff loadout -- ships do not innately grant an ability with the exception of science ships (well and cruisers now with communication arrays). The power in a ship is the boff layout and that is the point. If you have a Commander of engineering then you're a healer by the game's design, but of course, you could use the bit of sociopathy to distort this to all self-only abilities like aux2bat cheat, EPx, and RSP. But then again who are you benefiting? Your team? Or yourself?
So in a hypothetical scenario where I use an Oddy cruiser and set all the universal boffs as anything but eng so I only have 4 eng skills, I'm still meant to healboat? Pray tell how...
Using an Aux2Batt dps cruiser build (which I don't) does benefit a team because DEAD THINGS DON'T SHOOT BACK!
No, you've assumed three times (maybe more) that this thread is somehow about me. You've also, again from your own writings, assumed that I only play a tacscort being I use it heavily as an example. These are assumptions.
You sir need to stop fabricating TRIBBLE, it doesn't help your argument...
It doesn't benefit a blind team that has no clue who's going to be their team-mate. It also doesn't benefit a team to only classify drop ranks to dps. It also doesn't benefit a team to encourage players to let dps classes die for doing what they were intended to do. It also doesn't benefit a soul to come here acting like it does -- even yourself in the long-run.
If in my cruiser I can stop STF spawns reaching critical targets it helps a bad team far more than me healboating does... what's the most reliable way to do this? DPS, what's the way I find most fun to do this? In a cruiser... That is so wrong and actively unhelpful because..?
Which means someone at PWE is paying attention, and this is good.
Pull your head out of whatever hole you stuck it up will you!? The STFs we know today were designed TWO YEARS AGO
Of course if you were referring to the group working as a team to keep each other alive and using specific abilities for specific situations that benefit the group -- sure. However, if you are referring to the comment made about players using self-only abilities, no. I've seen team after team epicfail pugs because they all though they were some ninja in their boat and got clobbered by themselves. Likewise, I've yet to see a team fail that made notable efforts to keep each other alive and filled defined roles.
One good player is more than capable of carrying a group of 4 bad ones, how do I know? Because I've seen it done many times, I've DONE it many times, I've learned these days one has to TRY to fail a normal STF and if you can't hold your own in an elite STF, protip: DON'T PLAY THEM! Oh and... don't complain about everyone else not playing how YOU want them to, if you want trinity go play WOW or TOR...
Sorry but 1.3k to 1.6k 8 times, times 4 is way more than 2k 4 times, times 2...
Again, show me the math because every maths and parse on this forum says otherwise.
Lets look at some of the basic math:
256 dps for DHC's with +10 bonus critH, 176 dps for beam arrays, 132 dps for turrets (using some round and unmodified numbers)
DHCx4 [1024] + critH [factored at 34dps per cannon = 136] + Turx3 [396] = 1556dps raw
BAx8 = 1408 raw
Gap: 148dps
Now, start your multiplication math based on 4 consoles and power, and let me know what that dps gap is. Here lets give it a simple shot:
100 power = +100% dps:
DHC Build: 3112 dps
Ary Build: 2816 dps
Gap: 296dps
Now, for 4 VR XII consoles, we get a total factor of +42%
DHC Build: 4419.04
Ary build: 3998.72
Gap: 420.32 dps
We can go to abilities as well, such as your weapons training energy specialization etc -- the point being, the more we tack on these modifications, the bigger the DPS gap becomes.
And just a notation here, we're not even considering the power drain of 8 beams and how your rear beams become highly ineffective because of this drain (as your rear beams start at only 80ish power assuming 120 power to start), where the majority of a dhc's dps comes in from the front with only minor contribution from the rear or final 3 weapons in the chain. This means you have to run around with power efficiency to achieve any comparable dps assuming that the escort with the DHC build couldn't benefit from the buff (which being it is group buff, means that escorts would get the same benefit nullifying any point that could be argued in a pug).
For the sake of argument, lets tackle the power drain:
So in a hypothetical scenario where I use an Oddy cruiser and set all the universal boffs as anything but eng so I only have 4 eng skills, I'm still meant to healboat? Pray tell how...
ET1, EPS2, RSP2, A2si3
There you have it, because as an engineer, your miracle worker, rotate shield frequency, and RSP2 should keep you alive just fine, the other two should be generously used on others in the team. But I have a hunch your cmdr ability is aux2bat cheat. Peps would have a damned stroke if my cmdr tactical ability was APO3 in a pug being the only escort.
If in my cruiser I can stop STF spawns reaching critical targets it helps a bad team far more than me healboating does... what's the most reliable way to do this? DPS, what's the way I find most fun to do this? In a cruiser... That is so wrong and actively unhelpful because..?
Yes so you can burn the transformer yourself before anything gets to it, or is what you really just said, that everyone's dps meaning "alive players"?
Pull your head out of whatever hole you stuck it up will you!? The STFs we know today were designed TWO YEARS AGO
Sorry, that was an assumption that you were speaking on this latest content that actually requires some team effort and coordination which I think is a godsend.
One good player is more than capable of carrying a group of 4 bad ones, how do I know? Because I've seen it done many times, I've DONE it many times, I've learned these days one has to TRY to fail a normal STF and if you can't hold your own in an elite STF, protip: DON'T PLAY THEM! Oh and... don't complain about everyone else not playing how YOU want them to, if you want trinity go play WOW or TOR...
One good player making sure everyone says alive? Sure, that's called a healer. I have yet to see anyone but elitists that can run an entire STF by themselves.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Conclusion: The very premise of your crusade here is on termite infested wooden sticks at best.
Then, its time to replace the sticks.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I don't play sto to socialize, I play to pew pew in interweb spaceships. If I want to socialize I use the mmo called realife.
You don't have to socialize to display empathy and respect for other players.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Besides the fact that there are generally a tacscort and healboat in PVP in pairs, tell me how PVP relates to Pug PVE again.
Try because the pvp healboat has to counter more damage than any pve one, this the pvp one is better to build and use in pve and the thus relevant.
/Snip (Math)
Beam array Mk XII (common)
Base: 98.0 (78.4)
Level: 12*10.2 = 122.4
98.0+122.4 = 220.4
Rarity: 1
98.0*0.025 = 2.45
220.4+2.45 = 222.85
Damage pre skills and consoles: 222.85 (178.3)
On to skills...
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
98.0*1.012 = 99.17
222.85+99.17 = 322.02 (257.62)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
98.0*0.30 = 29.4
29.4*4 = 117.6
322.22+117.6 = 439.82 (351.85)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
Dual Heavy cannon Mk XII (Common)
Base: 174.0 (116.0)
Level: 12*14.2 = 170.4
174+170.4 = 344.4 (241.08)
Rarity: 1
174*0.025 = 4.35
344.4+4.35 = 348.75 (244.12)
Damage pre skills and consoles: 348.75 (244.12)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
174*1.012 = 176.08
348.75+176.08 = 524.83 (367.38)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
174*0.30 = 52.2
52.2*4 = 208.8
524.83+208.8 = 733.63 (513.54)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
45*1.012 = 45.54
97.72+45.54 = 143.26 (186.23)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
45*0.30 = 13.5
13.5*4 = 54
143.26+54 = 197.26 (256.43)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
Okay, so it's an over-estimate on the DHCs+Turrets calculations as the resources I'm using aren't particularly advanced and I can't be bothered at almost 3am to advance it beyond where it is, but it's close enough, here are my ultimate figures:
Broadside: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
DHCs+Turrets: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
+
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
(makes for 8065.06 (6482.95)
Now if we include the fact that any good beam user will run EPtW1 at least the broadside would get an extra 10% to sit both weapons systems at almost the same level of basic damage output (technically the beams should win out slightly in that situation as the base is only 2 or so damage points out so accounting fro DHC+turret drain combined should tip the balance), this also doesn't account for overcap produced by EPtW which will increase the beam damage further...
ET1, EPS2, RSP2, A2si3
There you have it, because as an engineer, your miracle worker, rotate shield frequency, and RSP2 should keep you alive just fine, the other two should be generously used on others in the team. But I have a hunch your cmdr ability is aux2bat cheat. Peps would have a damned stroke if my cmdr tactical ability was APO3 in a pug being the only escort.
This actually relies on allies to heal IT after a while when the eng captain buffs run out, the Oddy isn't known for it's ability to dodge...
Yes, dead players don't either.
If something doesn't live long enough to attack a player then a healboat or a tank is useless
Sorry what was fabricated again? Be specific.
My alleged assumptions about you.
Yes so you can burn the transformer yourself before anything gets to it, or is what you really just said, that everyone's dps meaning "alive players"?
Did it not occur to you that maybe one could sit between the enemies and the transformer and delay the enemies long enough for the other players to destroy it? One only has to kill nanite spheres afterall...
Sorry, that was an assumption that you were speaking on this latest content that actually requires some team effort and coordination which I think is a godsend.
LOL, it requires no more coordination than the old stuff, players fill gaps when they're paying any attention at all and if not they fail the mission, so be it, that's their fault, not mine.
One good player making sure everyone says alive? Sure, that's called a healer. I have yet to see anyone but elitists that can run an entire STF by themselves.
Off you go and solo the STF then because the only people who talk about how people are doing their ship wrong because they don't fit into a fantasy MMO role are elitists, have fun.
As an example, running 100 weapons power will yield a 100% bonus to weapon DPS giving an overall amount of 200% of the energy weapons base damage. However, every point under 50 in this system will lower overall DPS of each energy weapon by 2%. This means that if a player uses 25 power in the weapons subsystem then every energy weapon on the ship will only cause 50% of their original DPS.
The weapons subsystem power levels are capped at 125 power. Any extra power to this subsystem will not increase damage, but it does act as a power loss buffer.
This math is undeniably correct. This is real math backed by sources, data, and testing that are plastered all over these forums all over the wikis, and all over other guides out there that are deemed creditable and legit.
Your's is 'meth'. I noticed not a single link -- your numbers are complete and utter bullsheet with an epic failure of the power-drain mechanic. This makes you a sociopathic, manipulative, liar, and I will not entertain you further.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
This math is undeniably correct. This is real math backed by sources, data, and testing that are plastered all over these forums all over the wikis, and all over other guides out there that are deemed creditable and legit.
I know my way around power drain but would you be bothered to calculate weapon damage including skills and all at 3 in the morning and account for every point in power drain?
Your's is 'meth'. I noticed not a single link -- your numbers are complete and utter bullsheet with an epic failure of the power-drain mechanic. This makes you a sociopathic, manipulative, liar, and I will not entertain you further.
Riiiight... so because my figures based on figures from Bareel and my own testing don't agree with yours which are copy pates that I've seen many times before they are therefore "BS"? Sure... whatever you say... and if this makes me a sociopath... wow... dat logic...
PS: I should thank you for pointing out my mathematical errors on post power mod damage, they have been corrected.
Comments
Taking a "Selfie" photo of your Captain is also Sociopathic by the OP's logic..:D
Political correctness? Well that's another one of your previous assertions debunked - if you actually had the relevant credentials, you'd be able to fathom what I'm talking about instead of running with the sort of erroneous assumption I'd expect from a layman. It's painfully obvious now that you don't though, so please continue making slip-ups - when you're trying to weave a tangled web of obfuscation, it often becomes hard to keep track of it all.
You 'think' you do? This would imply that you have challenged yourself at some point to verify this, which I can't imagine has happened yet. Case in point.
Right, we're speaking on a subject that covers 99% of pugs, so therefor you want to touch on the 1% of fleets that for the time being fits into the exception category and expect players to be able to easily find these fleets through the haystack. Good point /sarcasm.
Driving around in your cruiser pew-pewing and being dazzled by the flashy lights is not working with them. That's working for yourself. If however you are running around healing when you loose agro, and doing everything within your power and ability to prevent a death in your team -- then why the hell are you arguing with me?
Obvious lie is obvious -- I've N E V E R claimed to be PC or to be the PC Police. You can either cite yourself now or stop the libel.
That was funny. I may just put that in my signature :P
Who said anything about that sort of claim? Keep digging.
......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse
So, I'm that sample case study in discourse 101 (which is also referred to as political science 101), therefor incorrect based upon the fact I choose not to be PC (which is what these studies -- if you've taken them -- demonstrate by showing an extreme case of either-or).
Please, keep bringing your politics into it....
Then surely you would have used the correct terminology for the curriculum itself -- The Dialectical Method -- instead of enshrouding your statement so it could be subjected to interpretation. Considering your acclaimed high level of intellect, one can only conclude this was your intent.
But you don't like Wikiepedia? Fine:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discourse
Now, tell me, what is formal about a game? This again falls under political science and other political studies.
The dialectic method is a form of dispute-based reasoning, which is a single facet of the discourse analysis module, not the module itself.
You're missing the point though. You should know this already, but you clearly don't - which blows a rather massive hole in the ostensible credibility of one of your previous posts in this very thread. I'd hedge at this point that you can't even remember half of the other personal "factoids" you've made reference to across various threads in order to attempt to bolster your credibility.
No, it is debate based communications (of any kind) which covers discourse in a very small segment, which is obvious what you're doing and obviously what my OP was doing. There is no such thing as "Discourse 101" lol.
Not a choice for sociopaths if you have been paying attention.
Sociopaths don't like or need friends, except in group forcing MMO games.
http://www.umkc.edu/core/courses/index.cfm?sortCol=attr_desc&sortOrder=ASC
Curriculum description:
Notice that DISC 100, 200, or 300 is not a pre-requisite of anything nor is it required for a psychology major. Notice as well "specific social groups..."? Mmmmm.
To be fair, the courses I took are:
Social Behavior
Business Ethics and Communications
Social Problems
Those were my communications classes not counting mandatory Engrish :P. Granted its been a while, so there likely may be something I forgot to plop on that list.
Dispute-based reasoning is synonymous with debate-based communications. As for there not being a "discourse 101", were you a psych major you'd have invariably come across the terminology - and frankly it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
It is just sad that most of any forums these days are just about arguing about who is right and who is wrong and issues that originally were wished to adress got lost in the stupid arguments.
Hardly anything constructive. What does it matter who is right and who is wrong if all the issues left unadressed?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tempers
Online
You're saying that reasoning/logic is synonymous of communications? L O L -- Dear God, all of political science and communications DEMANDS you throw logic out the window. And my dispute is that if you were, you would know it wasn't a required course and hardly covers the broad curriculum of psychology because the course itself is narrowed and specific to social group studies -- a mere figment of psychology and the study thereof -- and most importantly, entirely optional.
Again "Discourse 101" offered by only 2 US Universities that was searchable by the first 10 pages of Google, also very clearly explains that it is not required for psychology and the course only dabbles into special social groups (likely, as Wikipedia stated, politics, medicine, and religion being a first guess).
I agree and digress. The problem you are seeing with the arguments is folks stating that there are no problems or if they can admit there is a problem, their "sole" solution is abstinence while turning a blind eye.
No, but you should know that a good healboat doesn't use weapon power, thus any weapons on one would be so low damage as to be as good as no weapons at all.
I would beg to differ, I am also willing to show you what they are capable of if you so wish.
This is a major flaw in your assessment of ships, not all cruisers are designed as healboats or as tanks, some are built purely to dps, the Excelsior for example is well known as a TACTICAL cruiser used for applying DPS, not heals, this is why DEM3 (one of the most used cruiser skills in the game) is an engineer captain trained skill that takes an engineering COMMANDER slot
Wrong again, I've voiced no assumptions about you, only what you've told us, maybe you should stop making assumptions.
I also play all the classes and all their respective ship classes, I have no issue doing what I want in any of them, what you seem to be incapable of getting your head around is how something like my ship or anything for that matter that doesn't fit your mold can benefit a team, or play for a team, yet in the current pve meta, a dps cruiser is of more use to a team than a healboat or a straight tank, especially as threat control is tied to high damage output (e.g. if you have a cruiser with 9 points in TC and 3 or 4 +th consoles doing no damage and an escort doing lots of damage, the npc WILL attack the escort and laugh at the tank)
The thing is... endgame pve is built around EXACTLY the kind of group you just described such that EXACTLY this sort of group is capable of completing it.
And by the way, just because you are teamed up with someone does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that you have to socialize with them. Yes I will admit that communication in pugs could be a little better, but you do not have to socialize. It's just like at the workplace. Just because you work with someone does not mean you have to socialize with them. And you are also forgetting the meaning of multiplayer. Multiplayer just means that more than one person can play the game at once. It does not mean you have to team up with, or even "socialize" with anyone.
But hey, please continue with your elitist whining, the STO community is thoroughly enjoying a great laugh at your expense. At least I am.:D
You don't need your aux jacked up to 130 to keep someone alive. Again, you're being silly and again assuming I haven't played a cruiser/engineer.
Show me the math. Show me the side-by-side parses. There are parses and debates all over these forums to prove otherwise.
Your abilities are determined by your boff loadout -- ships do not innately grant an ability with the exception of science ships (well and cruisers now with communication arrays). The power in a ship is the boff layout and that is the point. If you have a Commander of engineering then you're a healer by the game's design, but of course, you could use the bit of sociopathy to distort this to all self-only abilities like aux2bat cheat, EPx, and RSP. But then again who are you benefiting? Your team? Or yourself?
No, you've assumed three times (maybe more) that this thread is somehow about me. You've also, again from your own writings, assumed that I only play a tacscort being I use it heavily as an example. These are assumptions.
It doesn't benefit a blind team that has no clue who's going to be their team-mate. It also doesn't benefit a team to only classify drop ranks to dps. It also doesn't benefit a team to encourage players to let dps classes die for doing what they were intended to do. It also doesn't benefit a soul to come here acting like it does -- even yourself in the long-run.
Which means someone at PWE is paying attention, and this is good -- that is, of course, if you were referring to the group working as a team to keep each other alive and using specific abilities for specific situations that benefit the group in the Dyson content. However, if you are referring to the comment made about players using self-only abilities, no. I've seen team after team epicfail pugs because they all thought they were some ship-ninja in their boat and got clobbered while thinking the could take the content themselves and while everyone else was regrouping (I lol hard at these, sitting back and taking bets on when they will get the hint is most entertaining). Likewise, I've yet to see a team fail that made notable efforts to keep each other alive and filled defined roles, regardless of gear OR experience.
It's silly now to build a healboat to PvP standard?
Sorry but 1.3k to 1.6k 8 times, times 4 is way more than 2k 4 times, times 2...
So in a hypothetical scenario where I use an Oddy cruiser and set all the universal boffs as anything but eng so I only have 4 eng skills, I'm still meant to healboat? Pray tell how...
Using an Aux2Batt dps cruiser build (which I don't) does benefit a team because DEAD THINGS DON'T SHOOT BACK!
You sir need to stop fabricating TRIBBLE, it doesn't help your argument...
If in my cruiser I can stop STF spawns reaching critical targets it helps a bad team far more than me healboating does... what's the most reliable way to do this? DPS, what's the way I find most fun to do this? In a cruiser... That is so wrong and actively unhelpful because..?
Pull your head out of whatever hole you stuck it up will you!? The STFs we know today were designed TWO YEARS AGO
One good player is more than capable of carrying a group of 4 bad ones, how do I know? Because I've seen it done many times, I've DONE it many times, I've learned these days one has to TRY to fail a normal STF and if you can't hold your own in an elite STF, protip: DON'T PLAY THEM! Oh and... don't complain about everyone else not playing how YOU want them to, if you want trinity go play WOW or TOR...
Besides the fact that there are generally a tacscort and healboat in PVP in pairs, tell me how PVP relates to Pug PVE again.
Again, show me the math because every maths and parse on this forum says otherwise.
Lets look at some of the basic math:
256 dps for DHC's with +10 bonus critH, 176 dps for beam arrays, 132 dps for turrets (using some round and unmodified numbers)
DHCx4 [1024] + critH [factored at 34dps per cannon = 136] + Turx3 [396] = 1556dps raw
BAx8 = 1408 raw
Gap: 148dps
Now, start your multiplication math based on 4 consoles and power, and let me know what that dps gap is. Here lets give it a simple shot:
100 power = +100% dps:
DHC Build: 3112 dps
Ary Build: 2816 dps
Gap: 296dps
Now, for 4 VR XII consoles, we get a total factor of +42%
DHC Build: 4419.04
Ary build: 3998.72
Gap: 420.32 dps
We can go to abilities as well, such as your weapons training energy specialization etc -- the point being, the more we tack on these modifications, the bigger the DPS gap becomes.
And just a notation here, we're not even considering the power drain of 8 beams and how your rear beams become highly ineffective because of this drain (as your rear beams start at only 80ish power assuming 120 power to start), where the majority of a dhc's dps comes in from the front with only minor contribution from the rear or final 3 weapons in the chain. This means you have to run around with power efficiency to achieve any comparable dps assuming that the escort with the DHC build couldn't benefit from the buff (which being it is group buff, means that escorts would get the same benefit nullifying any point that could be argued in a pug).
For the sake of argument, lets tackle the power drain:
(assuming 100 power)
DHC1 = 512 [256 base]
DHC2 = 451 @ 88 pwr [+76%]
DHC3 = 389 @ 76 pwr [+52%]
DHC4 = 328 @ 64 pwr[+28%]
TUR1 = 148 @ 56 pwr [+12%] [132 base]
TUR2 = 127 @ 48 pwr [-4%]
TUR3 = 106 @ 40 pwr [-20%]
Total DPS: 2061
Plus CrtH: 2197
Now
BA1 = 352 [176 base]
BA2 = 317 @ 90 pwr [+80%]
BA3 = 282 @ 80 pwr [+60%]
BA4 = 246 @ 70 pwr [+40%]
BA5 = 211 @ 60 pwr [+20%]
BA6 = 176 @ 50 pwr [ - ]
BA7 = 141 @ 40 pwr [-20%]
BA8 = 106 @ 30 pwr [-40%]
Total DPS: 1831
Gap: 366 (17%)
ET1, EPS2, RSP2, A2si3
There you have it, because as an engineer, your miracle worker, rotate shield frequency, and RSP2 should keep you alive just fine, the other two should be generously used on others in the team. But I have a hunch your cmdr ability is aux2bat cheat. Peps would have a damned stroke if my cmdr tactical ability was APO3 in a pug being the only escort.
Yes, dead players don't either.
Sorry what was fabricated again? Be specific.
Yes so you can burn the transformer yourself before anything gets to it, or is what you really just said, that everyone's dps meaning "alive players"?
Sorry, that was an assumption that you were speaking on this latest content that actually requires some team effort and coordination which I think is a godsend.
One good player making sure everyone says alive? Sure, that's called a healer. I have yet to see anyone but elitists that can run an entire STF by themselves.
Engineers are tinkerers...
May I remind you of... let's say... Turret Fabrication Kits?
Not very healy aren't they.
And IF they would have been designed to ONLY heal... why are there so many different Abilites facilitating a myriad of different combinations?
Same goes for Science... IF they were designed as pure CC and Debuff... why are there so many funky abilities?
Reason: Engineers are NOT designed as pure Healers and Science is NOT designed as pure CC/Debuff.
Conclusion: The very premise of your crusade here is on termite infested wooden sticks at best.
Then, its time to replace the sticks.
You don't have to socialize to display empathy and respect for other players.
Try because the pvp healboat has to counter more damage than any pve one, this the pvp one is better to build and use in pve and the thus relevant.
Beam array Mk XII (common)
Base: 98.0 (78.4)
Level: 12*10.2 = 122.4
98.0+122.4 = 220.4
Rarity: 1
98.0*0.025 = 2.45
220.4+2.45 = 222.85
Damage pre skills and consoles: 222.85 (178.3)
On to skills...
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
98.0*1.012 = 99.17
222.85+99.17 = 322.02 (257.62)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
98.0*0.30 = 29.4
29.4*4 = 117.6
322.22+117.6 = 439.82 (351.85)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
Dual Heavy cannon Mk XII (Common)
Base: 174.0 (116.0)
Level: 12*14.2 = 170.4
174+170.4 = 344.4 (241.08)
Rarity: 1
174*0.025 = 4.35
344.4+4.35 = 348.75 (244.12)
Damage pre skills and consoles: 348.75 (244.12)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
174*1.012 = 176.08
348.75+176.08 = 524.83 (367.38)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
174*0.30 = 52.2
52.2*4 = 208.8
524.83+208.8 = 733.63 (513.54)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
Turret Mk XII (Common)
Base: 45 (60)
Level: 12*4.3 = 51.6
45+51.6 = 96.6 (125.58)
Rarity: 1
45*0.025 = 1.12
96.6+1.12 = 97.72 (127.04)
Damage pre skills and consoles: 97.72 (127.04)
On to skills
Starship weapons training: 9 points = 50.51% (according to my point by point testing)
Starship energy weapons: 9 points = 50.51% (See above brakets)
Total: 101.2%
45*1.012 = 45.54
97.72+45.54 = 143.26 (186.23)
On to consoles...
Four Very rare Mk XIIs (30% each)
45*0.30 = 13.5
13.5*4 = 54
143.26+54 = 197.26 (256.43)
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
Okay, so it's an over-estimate on the DHCs+Turrets calculations as the resources I'm using aren't particularly advanced and I can't be bothered at almost 3am to advance it beyond where it is, but it's close enough, here are my ultimate figures:
Broadside: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 439.82*2.5 = 1099.55 (879.64)
For broadside: 1099.55*8 = 8796.4 (7037.12)
-Power drain: 8796.4/1.2 = 7330.33 (5864.26)
DHCs+Turrets: 125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 733.63*2.5 = 1834.07 (1283.85)
For the set: 1834.07*4 = 7336.28 (5135.39)
-Power drain: 7336.28/1.1 = 6669.34 (4668.54)
+
125 power = Damage*2.5
Per shot: 197.26*2.5 = 493.15 (641.09)
For the set: 493.15*3 = 1479.45 (1923.28)
- Power drain: 1479.45/1.06 = 1395.70 (1814.41)
(makes for 8065.06 (6482.95)
Now if we include the fact that any good beam user will run EPtW1 at least the broadside would get an extra 10% to sit both weapons systems at almost the same level of basic damage output (technically the beams should win out slightly in that situation as the base is only 2 or so damage points out so accounting fro DHC+turret drain combined should tip the balance), this also doesn't account for overcap produced by EPtW which will increase the beam damage further...
This actually relies on allies to heal IT after a while when the eng captain buffs run out, the Oddy isn't known for it's ability to dodge...
If something doesn't live long enough to attack a player then a healboat or a tank is useless
My alleged assumptions about you.
Did it not occur to you that maybe one could sit between the enemies and the transformer and delay the enemies long enough for the other players to destroy it? One only has to kill nanite spheres afterall...
LOL, it requires no more coordination than the old stuff, players fill gaps when they're paying any attention at all and if not they fail the mission, so be it, that's their fault, not mine.
Off you go and solo the STF then because the only people who talk about how people are doing their ship wrong because they don't fit into a fantasy MMO role are elitists, have fun.
This is called 'meth' not math.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Starship_(Power_and_Subsystems)
This math is undeniably correct. This is real math backed by sources, data, and testing that are plastered all over these forums all over the wikis, and all over other guides out there that are deemed creditable and legit.
http://deepspacealliance.blogspot.com/2012/08/game-mechanics-revealed-dual-cannons-vs.html As example of the comparison of DC vs DHC but explains the power drain very well.
Your's is 'meth'. I noticed not a single link -- your numbers are complete and utter bullsheet with an epic failure of the power-drain mechanic. This makes you a sociopathic, manipulative, liar, and I will not entertain you further.
Sorry, where I come from mathematics is maths regardless of what form it should take.
I know my way around power drain but would you be bothered to calculate weapon damage including skills and all at 3 in the morning and account for every point in power drain?
Riiiight... so because my figures based on figures from Bareel and my own testing don't agree with yours which are copy pates that I've seen many times before they are therefore "BS"? Sure... whatever you say... and if this makes me a sociopath... wow... dat logic...
PS: I should thank you for pointing out my mathematical errors on post power mod damage, they have been corrected.