The problem is, if you are truly sociopathic, you must realize this: this game that you love comes to a halt the moment PWE finds it unprofitable. I won't pretend to know the numbers or the point at which that is as it could be 1,000 less players than current, or 10,000,000 less than current. I know that there is a magic number there where they will flip the game off -- as we can all agree, they're in it to make a profit. This would mean the game you enjoy would cease to exist. You also have to realize that only 3-4% of Americans are sociopaths which means by designing again counter to the majority alienates a large swaths of demographics, while I won't imply that "majority rules", I will state that if they're not accommodated, the game will run on the minority and may just be too little to sustain the game. The point being, you'll be biting the hands that help feed you. And, yes, I've really tried hard at pushing the point without being offensive :S
Here are the things we can agree on: The game needs players to survive. The game won't last forever.
Other than that, I think we're just on different planets (mine's called Earth, btw, what's yours called?).
First, you are creating a false dichotomy by asserting that not catering to a group is the same thing as actively repelling them. That is not the case. Just because STO doesn't have explicit teamplay rewards doesn't mean that sociopathic play is encouraged, nor does it mean that teamplay is discouraged.
Second, you are assuming that your form of teamplay is, in fact, what the "majority" wants. I suspect that you are getting there by again assuming a false choice - you seem to be asserting that players who don't like "sociopathic" players necessarily must like your brand of team play, but there's no reason to suspect that is the case. Thus, it's unclear that your solution would do anything to bring in more people.
Third, you are overlooking the very real possibility that there are other, more effective ways to draw new players into the game - say, releasing new content, or getting media outlets to cover the game, or by using actors from the shows to encourage fans of the show to try out the game, etc. Basically, even if you were right that your proposal would encourage people to try out the game, it probably doesn't matter, since things like the Season 8 update next week will probably do the same thing better.
Fourth, you are presuming without warrant that the game is actively on the decline. I see no reason to suspect that this is the case, and you have already admitted that you don't have any concrete evidence of this. At best, you have anecdotal evidence of people you know leaving, but I have anecdotal evidence of new people joining the game all the time, as well as older players coming back periodically when there is an update. Seems like it's possible that the game is currently doing fine, and the idea that the game is DOOOOOOOOOOOMED without these changes is unsupported.
Its an "If X, then Y" statement. The comma occurs after the "X" clause, not after the "if"
Look it up. Its "If, Clause, Question" (ie, "If, while in a the car, could I drive?" makes the statement unconditional a statement and non-hypothetical and technically improper "Engrish" -- while "If while in the car, could I drive?" makes it hypothetical) as it is a mixed question containing a clause (hypothetical). Then again, lacking the If "Clause, Question" (ie, "While in the car, can I drive?") is hypothetical, hypothetical being the key word. Clauses area always hypothetical and fictitious to rouse the proper response to the question. Removing If entirely from the sentence still does't change its context the way you wrote it.
Let me throw you a lifeline here, you're obviously sinking. If you would have said:
"Being as (to predicate fact) my captain is/does/etc <facts>, you're saying I'm a sociopath?"
Instead of "If (predicates a hypothetical condition) my captain <conditions>, that makes me a sociopath?" would have granted the quarters you are looking for.
A grammar nAz1 I am not, but I can most certainly push back against those whom are.
Maybe you should have said that in your OP, you might have got a wee bit more support, as it was it read (to me) that you wanted to realign the rewards system so that people who didn't follow your set model didn't get anything (or if they did it was very little)
The post was directed at PWE, not players. This is not something I need player support on -- what I do need is support in brainstorming ways to make the system better or to create a system that serves a similar purpose to reward teamwork. Obviously your option to troll was not the response I sought, nor will it be one I further entertain.
I don't know what you found (I know what you didn't find, it was deleted due to the OP's mass trolling of everyone, very good troll her was to) but a simple "you remind me of someone" is no hyperbole
Google. Cache. Is. Your. Friend. You can delete threads from the forums, but they're usually cached on Google for months after they're deleted (and then sometimes you can find them at archive.org )
I'd love to see you quote me as being the first person to say that (very careful choice of words as i just described you as having said it) and I'm afraid I've spent more time disagreeing with you and to a point defending myself than I have criticizing your ideas, maybe if you had spent more time asking people why they disagree and what they would do in your place rather than complaining and calling them trolls for disagreeing with you in the first place, maybe this thread could have been more constructive... oh well...
Here:
If you're not "for" a change in the current system you're obviously content with the way it is. I haven't seen a counter-suggestion which furthers this circumstantial observation as substantial. If you have stated otherwise and have a better suggestion, by all means, feel free to clarify.
And before you go wetting your pants, remember "current system" is the current system we play under.
To be fair most people who enjoy contact with other people go out and see other people... shocking I know... those who don't want to be around others play games to fill their free time as it usually doesn't involve others so why force the issue?
No, to be fair, most people who play single-player games don't want to be around others. The multiplayer aspect of gaming was a concept introduced for the more socialites of the gaming community with the introduction of the first muds which gave rise to ********* and other MMOs.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
3-4% are sociopaths? You have got to be kidding....We would be in real trouble if 4% of 300,000,000 were actually sociopaths in this country....
We're not?? its been my personal experience ( which after 63 years is rather extensive ) that every single one of us have sociopathic traits and inclinations.. It used to be just killing TRIBBLE and hanging black people. Now its far more subtle, but its there, in every single one of us.. Whether we act on it or not may well indeed be another thing, but the fat is, the entire human race is at least in part sociopathic. As someone with kleifelter syndrome ive grown up and lived with a bulls eye on the back of my head, because at one time it was an unspoken and unpunished sport to hunt down and kill people like me. Oddly enough, it still is. We send entire armed forces to the mexican border to shoot and kill anyone that crosses that river. Why?? because we dont want there kind here.. I dont see what the big deal about calling a spade a spade is, especially as it concerns a dumb game.. Just admit it, accept it and get on with it..
The post was directed at PWE, not players. This is not something I need player support on -- what I do need is support in brainstorming ways to make the system better or to create a system that serves a similar purpose to reward teamwork. Obviously your option to troll was not the response I sought, nor will it be one I further entertain.
You put up a request for a complete overhaul of gameplay and expect players who will be affected to NOT give you their opinion?
[/QUOTE]Google. Cache. Is. Your. Friend. You can delete threads from the forums, but they're usually cached on Google for months after they're deleted (and then sometimes you can find them at archive.org )[/QUOTE]
Yeah... about that... I just checked both sources and didn't find a trace of the thread I was referring to...
If you're not "for" a change in the current system you're obviously content with the way it is. I haven't seen a counter-suggestion which furthers this circumstantial observation as substantial. If you have stated otherwise and have a better suggestion, by all means, feel free to clarify.
And before you go wetting your pants, remember "current system" is the current system we play under.
Again, nice try, passing your post off as mine by not giving the link back to it, good attempt (really), unluckily for you, you aren't the only one who is prepared to go back and find quotes.
Repeatedly violating the rights of others by the use of intimidation, dishonesty and misrepresentation (see the folks in here that don't want this? Notice how this isn't a problem at all for them? Somehow it is all the fault of those who identify this as a problem? -- check)
Remember this? I do, especially the "dishonesty and misrepresentation" part...
However, as Janeway said once, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" The fact is, STO is dwindling in size in its player-base and this generally means a little less money for PWE. There is a finite point (not today, not tomorrow but it is in the future) at which someone in the executive's chair makes that decision to pull the plug and at that very point, everything you love in this game comes to a screeching halt. And while you're in this pseudo-narcissistic mindset of "I don't care about your problems" to everyone but yourself, you're chasing the players away that WILL keep this game alive and when the plug is pulled -- well, you would have been the problem.
Any source for your 'the game is loosing players' assessment?
Honestly this is the typical 'game is doomed if you don't do exactly what I suggest to make it appeal to my tastes' proposal. And it fails to realize....
Teamwork is rewarded. Sure we lack trinity, and yes many players lack the capability to field an optimized team in a PuG setting, but teamwork is rewarded.
Attack Pattern Beta - Helps entire team.
Gravity Well - Helps entire team.
Energy Drains - Helps entire team.
Tanking - Helps entire team.
Just takes a bit more creativity to get the most out of it. But even DHCs perform much better against a held target with no subsystems, 0 defense rating, at point blank with no fear of attack. Even the record STF runs spam APB on everything, and they even crossheal!
And the reward? Get event done faster, get more events done.
But currently teamwork is not required. And that is a good thing for most content designed specifically to be enjoyed by your average player in the average PuG. That is a very good thing.
First off, this thread is a good one. Yet, there are some factors that seemed to have been overlooked in the discussion. Despite so much criticism as to why it is useless to do so, I use only cruisers (Odyssey on Fed side; Bortasqu' on KDF side; I have tried and have others too) and am an engineer captain most of the time.I play "unknown factor" eSTF pugs only because I am not in a fleet and don't really want to be in one because I abhor cliques, the clique mentality and drama. (Maybe my IRL brother and I will start one someday but who knows) I have a variety of STF rep and lobi gear but no fleet stuff.
I have a variety of heal/buff-debuff skills available on my ships. The one that seems most effective is eng team 3. I use auxtStInt 3 most often for self heals. because it leave ET 3 available. I don't use TT all that often because it shares cooldown with ET 3 so I try other means to keep shields up. I also try to "passive heal" by running a full beam weapon array, using FAW and trying to stay alive myself while drawing fire away from other ships. I'm running about 50/50 in eSTF for not getting destroyed at least once. Just an opinion but I think it's unrealistic to expect not to be destroyed even once in awhile in an eSTF (especially CC, though I have occasionally done it) and blaming someone else, other than the enemy ship, when it does happen. That is not a personal criticism of anyone who believes otherwise.
In pugs, it is difficult to heal ships because they move in and out of the 10k heal range constantly or are not there to begin with and cruisers don't generally move fast enough to get to a damaged ship in time. Escorts notoriously move in and out of heal-range constantly. If you want a heal, stick close to my ship and I will get to you when and if I can before you are destroyed. My heals/buffs are not unlimited and I try to heal the most heavily damaged ship (escort or not) first, escorts get priority if all things are equal.
It is difficult to monitor my own ship status, the damage status of all other ships on my team (it is prohibitively difficult in the tholian action in Tau dewa since there is no team roster-status display and trying to dig through fight-spam there and click on each ship that might be damaged requires a 4th eye and a 3rd hand) and monitor the attack/damage /shield status of the enemy ship(s) as well as read the chat box all at the same time, at least reliably, so I might miss a heal request or have no heals available when you ask. It is also difficult to monitor all this and then type any reply in the chat box (with my 3rd hand- even though I have dozens of keybinds) all at the same time. Maybe I'm just a lousy player. Maybe if I spend another 700+ days playing, I may improve.
It seems that in the Crystalline Entity fight, heals might garner points since while I'm sure that my DPS is unremarkable, I have had more than one 1st and 2nd place finish and a load of 3rd place finishes and this seems to happen most often when I have been able to hand out a good many heals.
I like non-clique/fleet pugs. I like seeing players I have pug'd with before and learning who is good and who is not. I talk to these people, and give instructions to newbies at the beginning of scenarios, usually nothng in the middle of the battles, and constructive criticism and advice at the end, if anyone hangs around to listen and I try to solicit the advice of players I know to be good at the finish, by way of PM if possible. I usually don't type fast enough in game to chat back during a scenario, unless there is a long lull. (IRL I am blind in one eye and don't have full use of one hand but I like the feel of "playing the piano, which I formerly did, that I get from STO play. I also like the ST genre.
So, if you are in a pug and see me, and you want maximum heal potential from my not-indestructible cruiser, stay close, be patient, pray that I see you in time, and that I still have a heal or buff available. I may not be an "ace" player but neither am I an idiot. I will do my best to keep you alive for as long as I can before I too am destroyed. Hopefully we won't meet at the respawn point.
Any source for your 'the game is loosing players' assessment?
Honestly this is the typical 'game is doomed if you don't do exactly what I suggest to make it appeal to my tastes' proposal. And it fails to realize....
Teamwork is rewarded. Sure we lack trinity, and yes many players lack the capability to field an optimized team in a PuG setting, but teamwork is rewarded.
Attack Pattern Beta - Helps entire team.
Gravity Well - Helps entire team.
Energy Drains - Helps entire team.
Tanking - Helps entire team.
Just takes a bit more creativity to get the most out of it. But even DHCs perform much better against a held target with no subsystems, 0 defense rating, at point blank with no fear of attack. Even the record STF runs spam APB on everything, and they even crossheal!
And the reward? Get event done faster, get more events done.
But currently teamwork is not required. And that is a good thing for most content designed specifically to be enjoyed by your average player in the average PuG. That is a very good thing.
I know its a hard concept to grasp, but its called fact through observation. It is very obvious that opposed to a year ago where there were queue timers to login, and zones filling up to #60 and higher that this game was very busy. Tell me that is the case today, this month, or hell even last month.
These abilities are forced team-abilities. This is like calling a tax a damn donation. Stop playing spin doctor and stop trolling.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
1. wahhh no one healed me, even though i am in an escort that other players tank in very well
2. wahhh no one healed me so i could get all the top rewards because i out DPS everyone
3. wahhh no one healed me so everyone is a sociopath.
it never occurred to you that:
1. the non escorts were concentrating on their own DPS to be competitive
2. in a PUG no one wants to volunteer to be a healer.
3. you make no mention of how many heals YOU threw. does that make YOU the sociopath?
when PWE finally balances ships by making an escort a TRUE glass cannon and bringing team heals into play, AND when they start adding total heals on other players into the numbers used for reward triggers then you might have a reason to whine
till then, I recommend the gouda. it's a nice cheese
1. wahhh no one healed me, even though i am in an escort that other players tank in very well
2. wahhh no one healed me so i could get all the top rewards because i out DPS everyone
3. wahhh no one healed me so everyone is a sociopath.
it never occurred to you that:
1. the non escorts were concentrating on their own DPS to be competitive
2. in a PUG no one wants to volunteer to be a healer.
3. you make no mention of how many heals YOU threw. does that make YOU the sociopath?
when PWE finally balances ships by making an escort a TRUE glass cannon and bringing team heals into play, AND when they start adding total heals on other players into the numbers used for reward triggers then you might have a reason to whine
till then, I recommend the gouda. it's a nice cheese
Let me see if you're right:
1. Wahh I'm a narcissistic idiot.. Wahh!!
Nope.
1. And you don't think this is the problem -- you know that EVERYONE has to focus on DPS and not supporting the group to be competitive? Getting the hint to the purpose of the thread yet?
2. If a healer could have their heals counted as part of their total score, they would, I'm pretty sure of it.
3. So if I tell you my heals, I'm bragging (and a sociopath from the inflated ego), if I don't I'm a sociopath because you assume none. Nice way to play spin doctor, but I'll have you know I spin with the best. Nice troll piece though.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
No.... I didn't say that. In fact I stated in the OP the rewards should first be based on the type of ship you are flying (the primary criteria), secondly on the ships support role (inferred), and thirdly gauged on the class you are. Your class would be the lowest weight in determining a score being as each captain only gets two to three abilities that make a big difference when used, while your boffs can quickly dwarf that. I also believe a system that allows for this method of scoring also allows for the most flexibility for the player. Of course I wouldn't put a player in a sociopath category while at the same time promoting this kind of flexibility :S Where did that come from? Did you misread something or did I mistype it?
I know its a hard concept to grasp, but its called fact through observation. It is very obvious that opposed to a year ago where there were queue timers to login, and zones filling up to #60 and higher that this game was very busy. Tell me that is the case today, this month, or hell even last month.
So, next week when people come back for the content update, then you'll happily admit that you're wrong? The population of the game is largely cyclical - it rises and falls in accordance with content releases.
These abilities are forced team-abilities. This is like calling a tax a damn donation. Stop playing spin doctor and stop trolling.
None of those abilities are forced team abilities, they are all perfectly viable and useful in solo play as well. You're lashing out at nothing here, and making yourself look even sillier. Disagreeing with you is not trolling.
every time you post "I'm right you are wrong and the game needs to change to suit ME!"
I don't believe I asked your opinion, I asked for constructive feedback. However, if you feel compelled to offer it so you can sleep better at night and feel better about yourself, knock yourself out, it is still unwanted nonetheless. If I did ask your opinion though, feel free to point that out, as I would need to make an edit.
You also seem to lack the basic comprehension aptitude required of that of a third grader as every post I've made has had jack to do with myself but based on a group of 4 friends that recently left (3 weeks ago) because of problems I didn't realize until then was a problem at all.
I realize asking a community that seems apparently dominated by sociopaths their opinion on sociopathy is not something I can make progress with which is why I was very careful in what I asked -- this is a given, however the problems can't be denied, they're all over these bloody forums and all over chat in every channel of the game. To sit and say a problem doesn't exist, well you're in denial or very likely that sociopath who's desperately striking back to preserve that bubble.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
I see that, but I disagree with the grouping being easier bit -- if it is a requirement that everyone in a group has to rely on each other, it becomes a lot more difficult -- not just for you, but for the entire group because it must be a well oiled machine. Getting or finding machines like this can be rare -- which is half of the difficulty and should be rewarded in kind.
MMO's have realized it, STO is trying it, and it is not going well because player after player -- one by one is leaving through a combination of lack of content and lack of team-play.
The problem is, if you are truly sociopathic, you must realize this: this game that you love comes to a halt the moment PWE finds it unprofitable. I won't pretend to know the numbers or the point at which that is as it could be 1,000 less players than current, or 10,000,000 less than current. I know that there is a magic number there where they will flip the game off -- as we can all agree, they're in it to make a profit. This would mean the game you enjoy would cease to exist. You also have to realize that only 3-4% of Americans are sociopaths which means by designing again counter to the majority alienates a large swaths of demographics, while I won't imply that "majority rules", I will state that if they're not accommodated, the game will run on the minority and may just be too little to sustain the game. The point being, you'll be biting the hands that help feed you. And, yes, I've really tried hard at pushing the point without being offensive :S
I have spent enough money to represent a group of players and am still an active Subscriber.
The scaling I described would not be noticeable by people who are not SOLOs like myself.
It is an add on that allows previously group required content to be solo'd OR grouped.
This would also add a mission replay element for those who have never tried it alone.
So it would be extra content using existing resources.
I would be willing to pay for the privelege of being able to solo group content.
So, next week when people come back for the content update, then you'll happily admit that you're wrong? The population of the game is largely cyclical - it rises and falls in accordance with content releases.
None of those abilities are forced team abilities, they are all perfectly viable and useful in solo play as well. You're lashing out at nothing here, and making yourself look even sillier. Disagreeing with you is not trolling.
O'Really? Not forced group abilities you say? So tell me how it is possible to use such an ability in a group environment without benefiting everyone? Please do explain. Again, paying taxes is not a donation <-- So did you miss the point there or are you intentionally trying to play a game of trollol dodge-ball?
Its fine though, respond with what you will, from this point forward, I'll only respond to healthy conversation that can both identify there is a problem and propose new solutions or amendments to the proposed solutions. If you like being ignored, have fun.
Posts of "We can't fix that so why bother" will also be ignored.
Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
Good lord you guys have posted a lot. I finally got to the end, so I'm ready to add my 0.02.
My other game's DC Universe. It enforces roles, and adds the controller role. which not only debuffs, but also generates power for the group. (Think of them healing power.) That game's player base have gotten more toxic over time.
1) People can burn through most content by DPSing, so tanks can't get included in low level content, just the really hard stuff where the DPSes die if they look at Lex Luthor funny.
2) If a DPS goes down, it's always the Tank/Healer's fault, even though the idiot was meleeing Metallo, and has no clue how to block.
3) In 8 man end game raids, they only include one tank, one healer, and one troller, so they can include more DPSes. This, of course, adds pressure to those players. TRIBBLE up and everyone dies.
3/4 of the players are DPS, too, which doesn't help. There's also role specific gear, which adds whole nother level of drama. (Plus, you get points for completing styles, so you might want gear that's in every other way inferior to what you have now.)
Oh, and they can kick, if they need more drama.
On the STO side, I find healing others to be unnecesarly hard. The only way that I can target another ship is to click on it, and that randomly works. (To be fair, I have the same problem with enemies.) Supposedly there are keys to press to select another ship, but I've never gotten that to work, or don't have it set up correctly. Also, it's really easy to get more than 10 km away from some of your teammates, in which case, oh well. Don't know where they are, probably can't get to them in time.
One of the nice things about DC was that while everyone was expected to attack (that's how most classes self regen power), the heals were "heals lowest health." Controllers also had a "regen lowest power" ability. I think that healing in STO could be improved immensely if we had a simple "target lowest hull" and "target lowest shields" ability.
If you are playing escort with no survival skills, you are going to have a bad time.
You may want to change your approach to escort if you are doing so poorly that you are wanting heals.
Just some pointers:
tactical team is your friend, have this up as much as you can.(if you have 2 tac slots, there is no excuse for not having this up)
Dont go half impulse (there are a few exceptions to that), speed = defense, it effects your evasion.
Most of the time I set my escorts up with chase cam and play it like a flight sim, just zipping in and out at max impulse in a sorta dogfight. (and putting evasive manuvers + brace for impact at fingers reach helps for tight situations)
I used my silly little t'varo for ages, dual cannons, turrets. No real "optimal" build, just following what I listed there.
While it sucks that healing isn't a thing in the game, honestly with pugs a generic build is going to do better than a specialized one that requires specific support. Considering how this game plays and the nature of the ship combat. Highly mobile escorts are harder to target with everyone drifting in and out of range all the time.
This statement incriminates you. Why shouldn't he fly the ship he wants in the way he wants? He likes cruisers, and he likes blowing up the bad guys. And for that you call him "self-centered, self-absorbed, [and] sociopathic "? Look in the mirror, buddy!
Forcing someone to play a support role in forced "trinity" tactics is far more sociopathic than someone simply enjoying the game they play FOR FUN. This isn't a job. No one should be FORCED into a support role for everyone else's fun.
The whole "trinity" structure is a holdover imported from games that were never designed with Star Trek in mind, usually fantasy settings. Star Trek is all about lone captains who are self-reliant, versatile, and independent. Each captain and each ship is a "total package", not a limited role job class. That is how it has always worked.
Forcing a Star Trek game into a mold that was never meant for and does not fit Star Trek is nothing but a mistake.
I play Star Trek because I love Star Trek.
I am an engineer and I fly a cruiser and I love it.
I fly a cruiser because for me, that's what Star Trek is all about.
I pug STF because I lack the game time and commitment to be in a fleet and honestly, I am done with intense gaming.
I have a good deal of offensive skills because if I don't, it takes ages to go through content.
...but beware... I AM A SOCIOPATH !!!
...and I am egocentric, self-centered, self-absorbed, a piece of TRIBBLE, etc.
Wow...
"Starship captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. The secret is to give them what they need, not what they want."
- Scotty, to La Forge
Creating a forced co-operative PUG is problematic as the target audience are those who do not want to join fleets yet want to participate in group events.
The risk-reward of fleet participation is the answer to the risk-risk conundrum of PUGs.
Forcing social-engineered conformity is antithetical to the random nature of PUGs.
Creating a forced co-operative PUG is problematic as the target audience are those who do not want to join fleets yet want to participate in group events.
The risk-reward of fleet participation is the answer to the risk-risk conundrum of PUGs.
Forcing social-engineered conformity is antithetical to the random nature of PUGs.
Also,
Curious, did you diagnose your sample against the PCL-R?
An ongoing issue is extrapolating personality and behavioural deficits that over-identifies a population.
Correctly diagnosing psychopathy/antisocial behaviour is an ongoing debate.
While symptoms may manifest, interpretations, without clinical control groups, gives me pause to a formal diagnosis of PUG participants.
More likely his 'Thesis' is a load of trumped up BS to make himself sound and feel better about who he is while also trying to make us 'cower' to his supposed superior intellect. I don't have any training or degrees in psychology or medicine, but I would like to believe I know a bald-faced liar when I see one. After all, this is the internet is it not? I can say I'm a nascent demigod from the realm of 'Shangralahleelah' or something if I feel like, doesn't make it true. Granted an extreme example of 'B.S.'. I would like to imagine that it's getting my point across.
As for the original post, no, I didn't read it, but to be honest, given what the OP is spouting as his 'answer' to what seem to me to simply be people saying, 'I don't like that idea because (insert personal reasons here)' I'm not entirely sure I want to. Oh, and ongoing with the few people above me, I'm a Tactical Career C.O., I fly a Battle Cruiser because I like something with firepower and support capabilities which can 'hang' in a firefight. I cross heal, and use my Cruiser Commands more to benefit my teammates than myself, but because I don't 'shoehorn' myself into a pure DPS role and fly a proverbial 'glass cannon' the way most tac's do, I'm a sociopath... look out. As for Self-Centered, who isn't? The world would collapse with out some degree of 'self interest', Self-absorbed, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the same basic thing as 'self-centered'?
A cruiser with an engineering captain with a playstyle of DPS -- you couldn't have given me a more self-centered, self-absorbed, sociopathic play-style if you tried; at least the Vesta can aux-DPS. And many others feel you shouldn't be rewarded for throwing your teammates under the bus either. To each his own. Hopefully Cryptic gets the hint that encouraging sociopaths is the antithesis of a healthy community.
I'd reason it's no less self-centred or self-absorbed to play an engineer in a dps cruiser than it is to play a tac/scort. Actually it opens up options, I can pull my weight when damage is what's required of me, I can spread debuffs around, I've killed things with ease that a tac/scort couldn't hope to take on alone or with the heals at my disposal (most of which I can and will share when I can afford to). So I find it's more functional than a tac/scort, keeps up with tac/scorts, does more for a team than a tac/scort... yeah... really self-centred, self-absorbed and sociopathic...
However, allow me to add, that if others in the team (besides yourself) were doing their jobs, and a meaty ocra escort was kept alive the entire time and spammed all their dps abilities (assuming a proper boff and weapon setup), you couldn't contend -- it is against the game's mechanics.
The number of times I've taken down a side of KASE with my favourite probesman faster than the combined efforts of 3 other players working on the other side would tend to suggest you under-estimate the capacity of a good cruiser build.
So thereby withholding a heal for that escort gives you more total damage under the current system thereby rewarding you for throwing your teammate under the bus. In a system where this wasn't rewarded or penalized, if it were rewarding for playing as a team, you would find much less reward and would be left behind in your rather self-centered play-style very quickly.
You sir, are very good at hating on anything that doesn't fit YOUR mold, sort of like this guy if anything running as an engineer gives me enough inbuilt capacity to keep myself alive while I do my damage that I can spare more heals for the local escort than the tac/cruiser you would rather I should run if I insisted upon running a dps cruiser. Why should I be penalised for being a large team contributor just because I don't do it the way YOU want me to?
But, if you like doing all the damage and healing yourself, there are always the episodes and single-player events to play through for rep. I find your play-style rather deplorable that you are rewarded heavy amounts of reputation for doing the exact same thing you do in single-player mode while there are others out there that crave a team environment of being able to depend on another class to get their own jobs done.
What? You mean I should be self-centred and do my own thing for myself only? When I could easily be carrying bad pugs and doing them a favour but of course you know everything about how I fly and my priorities in a team situation...
It is interesting that people are more focused on attacking each other here than actually discussing the root problem. I provided a solution (post #117) 60 something posts (7 hours) ago and no one supported or refuted my claim. Should I infer that silence is a form of agreement/complicity? That would be dangerous for me to do so.
There is a real problem in PUGs -- no one works as a team.
The majority of everything posted by everyone after that point assumes a lot of what motivates the playerbase. The problem is framed incorrectly. Work backwards from the result to find the desired environment then compare that to what exists currently in game.
RESULT: A random (experience levels, gear quality, ability selection, native language) collection of players functions in a cooperative manner to complete an encounter.
The problem that should be addressed is individual rewards vs group rewards. Team oriented goals garnering team-wide rewards. If only X number of deaths occur, the team earns a little bonus. If optional goals are achieved, the team earns a little bonus for each. If the team finishes under a certain time limit, the team earns a little bonus. The group's goal is still to finish, but there is incentive to do more to earn more. Maybe a jack of all trades geared ship can handle an objective that would require two specialized ships.
If you end up with a PUG full of Tactical damage mongers, then maybe you can only meet the minimum bar of finishing and hit the time bonus. If you end up with a PUG light on damage output maybe you can finish and complete an optional goal but totally miss the time limit. Being skewed to far to one side will limit your possibilities. The problem with this approach is people will initially try to complete every single goal and stretch themselves too thin. After a few runs, you will get a feel for what a group can achieve based loosely on class composition and eyeballing what ships they are driving.
If you can assume that people will not talk much, then a new rewards scheme won't magically make them start talking. The current scheme is primarily driven by completing and secondarily by damage output. Shifting the secondary factor to group objectives will nudge people towards gearing to complete multiple objectives and away from glass cannon syndrome. You can still be a glass cannon and you will still have a purpose/role in completing the PUG, but it will be more beneficial to have some flexibility to handle a wider variety of objectives.
It is interesting that people are more focused on attacking each other here than actually discussing the root problem. I provided a solution (post #117) 60 something posts (7 hours) ago and no one supported or refuted my claim. Should I infer that silence is a form of agreement/complicity? That would be dangerous for me to do so.
The majority of everything posted by everyone after that point assumes a lot of what motivates the playerbase. The problem is framed incorrectly. Work backwards from the result to find the desired environment then compare that to what exists currently in game.
RESULT: A random (experience levels, gear quality, ability selection, native language) collection of players functions in a cooperative manner to complete an encounter.
This is my solution:
(Sorry, it cut the 'solution' quote out as the thread system is wont to do)
Having been a 'come lately' to this thread I didn't actually see your post on the solution to the issue with the lack of co-operation in most PUG's in game until now. That said, I do actually mostly agree with it, the only issue I see has to do with the old adage "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". In other words, you can offer all the incentive in the world, but if someone doesn't want what you're selling, they're not going to buy it.
Granted, I have no problem whatsoever with this as it would, in my opinion at least, go some way towards correcting the 'disparity' in what most consider to be the 'perfect teams' for most PvE endgame content as it exists currently. I wonder if you'll consider this addition I humbly suggest?
In regards to awards focused on more 'versatile' groups which still have considerable tactical 'punch', why not make it so that completing both the time and 'special' secondary objectives increases not just the 'marks reward' but also boosts the Dil reward if there is one and the overall quality of the gear received across the entire team. In other words, you reward the entire team for good 'team play'.
O'Really? Not forced group abilities you say? So tell me how it is possible to use such an ability in a group environment without benefiting everyone? Please do explain. Again, paying taxes is not a donation <-- So did you miss the point there or are you intentionally trying to play a game of trollol dodge-ball?
No, how about you explain? Because it sounds like you think the definition of a 'forced group' power is one which benefits a group. That is a bad definition, not least because it means basic weapon attacks are "forced group" powers, since, you know, you can't shoot the enemies in a group setting, without benefitting the group.
Your taxes analogy is both irrelevant and the opposite of what you want it to be. It's irrelevant because taxes are mandatory, while slotting the powers listed is not. Heck, even if you do have those powers slotted, activating them is still not mandatory. It goes the wrong way because it looks like you are trying to argue that the "proper" expression of a "team power" is one that benefits the team exclusively (and not the individual at all - a "donation"), and yet you are acting like powers that benefit everyone are bad somehow by "forcing" a player to benefit everyone. It's highly incoherent.
So, yeah, unless you want to clarify your definition of what a "forced group power" is, I stand by my claim that you are labelling the powers in question incorrectly, because you don't actually know what the label you are using means.
Its fine though, respond with what you will, from this point forward, I'll only respond to healthy conversation that can both identify there is a problem and propose new solutions or amendments to the proposed solutions. If you like being ignored, have fun.
Posts of "We can't fix that so why bother" will also be ignored.
You know how you can really tell the people who want honest, open feedback? They generally don't attach conditions to what that feedback should be in order to be considered.
I pug stfs (engi in a cruiser or carrier) and I heal others when or if I can. If in range, sure, but if not, then sorry about your luck. I also do as much damage as I can because, well, enemies must die. That's the point. You do the objectives and play the game. Also, I don't even know how to check a leaderboard on here.
I do consider myself a bit anti-social, but in the terms you describe it, I have to disagree.
I must also point out that this thread is nothing if not just pure troll/flame bait and should probably be locked. If you have something that PWE needs to address, address it to them via support and not a public forum where you make it clear that people's opinions will be ignored.
I think that healing in STO could be improved immensely if we had a simple "target lowest hull" and "target lowest shields" ability.
This is a good idea. Granted, it may be difficult to implement well due to the fluid nature of healing in STO, but still a worthwhile addition, I think.
Improving group rewards is a good start, but ultimately, as saekiith stated in post #123, the devs need to change how to win. As it stands, DPS is all that matters. That's how it is because it's easy. Not just for players but for Cryptic as well. I imagine it's far less work to design new bad guys to blow up than to plan and implement entirely new ways to complete missions.
The redesigned CE mission was a good first step. Being rewarding for something other than just pew-pewing was a refreshing change. I think that adding increased group rewards for team play, as chef suggests, would be an excellent second step. But it can't be more 'Free X Captured Ships'. It needs to be 'Healed X Amount of Allied Ship Hull' or 'Shields'. Or maybe 'Intercepted Y Boarding Parties/Destructable Projectiles Aimed at Allied Ships'. How about 'X Allies Within Cruiser Comm Range for Y Duration'? Even 'Avoided Combat With X Encounters'? I'm spitballing here, so take it all with a grain of salt. But you get the idea.
I liked thunderhawk's idea about increasing the quality of team loot drops, especially if that increase occurs as optional objectives are completed (instant gratification ftw).
Star Trek: Online - Now with 100% more dinosaurs!!
You are aware that not all have this option, right?
I don't and i have been around since late 2010. burned too many times with fleets so any chance of me getting fleet ship or elite weapons are out of the question.
One can only hope with random pugging on STFs that the others know what they are doing and leave it at that. however the OP should also realize this evidence means nothing as each person has their own fights in the game as well as outcomes.
I have ran 20 stfs recently only two so far have failed the optional objective;
One was IS because one player got ahead of himself and destroyed one of the four devices way too soon.
The other is KAS, someone did not have strong enough beams to destroy the probes in time.
However the vast majority knew what they were doing and only one STF had only one interaction out of all those PuG fights.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Comments
Here are the things we can agree on: The game needs players to survive. The game won't last forever.
Other than that, I think we're just on different planets (mine's called Earth, btw, what's yours called?).
First, you are creating a false dichotomy by asserting that not catering to a group is the same thing as actively repelling them. That is not the case. Just because STO doesn't have explicit teamplay rewards doesn't mean that sociopathic play is encouraged, nor does it mean that teamplay is discouraged.
Second, you are assuming that your form of teamplay is, in fact, what the "majority" wants. I suspect that you are getting there by again assuming a false choice - you seem to be asserting that players who don't like "sociopathic" players necessarily must like your brand of team play, but there's no reason to suspect that is the case. Thus, it's unclear that your solution would do anything to bring in more people.
Third, you are overlooking the very real possibility that there are other, more effective ways to draw new players into the game - say, releasing new content, or getting media outlets to cover the game, or by using actors from the shows to encourage fans of the show to try out the game, etc. Basically, even if you were right that your proposal would encourage people to try out the game, it probably doesn't matter, since things like the Season 8 update next week will probably do the same thing better.
Fourth, you are presuming without warrant that the game is actively on the decline. I see no reason to suspect that this is the case, and you have already admitted that you don't have any concrete evidence of this. At best, you have anecdotal evidence of people you know leaving, but I have anecdotal evidence of new people joining the game all the time, as well as older players coming back periodically when there is an update. Seems like it's possible that the game is currently doing fine, and the idea that the game is DOOOOOOOOOOOMED without these changes is unsupported.
Look it up. Its "If, Clause, Question" (ie, "If, while in a the car, could I drive?" makes the statement unconditional a statement and non-hypothetical and technically improper "Engrish" -- while "If while in the car, could I drive?" makes it hypothetical) as it is a mixed question containing a clause (hypothetical). Then again, lacking the If "Clause, Question" (ie, "While in the car, can I drive?") is hypothetical, hypothetical being the key word. Clauses area always hypothetical and fictitious to rouse the proper response to the question. Removing If entirely from the sentence still does't change its context the way you wrote it.
Let me throw you a lifeline here, you're obviously sinking. If you would have said:
"Being as (to predicate fact) my captain is/does/etc <facts>, you're saying I'm a sociopath?"
Instead of "If (predicates a hypothetical condition) my captain <conditions>, that makes me a sociopath?" would have granted the quarters you are looking for.
A grammar nAz1 I am not, but I can most certainly push back against those whom are.
The post was directed at PWE, not players. This is not something I need player support on -- what I do need is support in brainstorming ways to make the system better or to create a system that serves a similar purpose to reward teamwork. Obviously your option to troll was not the response I sought, nor will it be one I further entertain.
Google. Cache. Is. Your. Friend. You can delete threads from the forums, but they're usually cached on Google for months after they're deleted (and then sometimes you can find them at archive.org
Here:
And before you go wetting your pants, remember "current system" is the current system we play under.
That is the estimate. Don't take my word for it:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/as-many-as-12-million-americans-are-sociopaths.html
No, to be fair, most people who play single-player games don't want to be around others. The multiplayer aspect of gaming was a concept introduced for the more socialites of the gaming community with the introduction of the first muds which gave rise to ********* and other MMOs.
We're not?? its been my personal experience ( which after 63 years is rather extensive ) that every single one of us have sociopathic traits and inclinations.. It used to be just killing TRIBBLE and hanging black people. Now its far more subtle, but its there, in every single one of us.. Whether we act on it or not may well indeed be another thing, but the fat is, the entire human race is at least in part sociopathic. As someone with kleifelter syndrome ive grown up and lived with a bulls eye on the back of my head, because at one time it was an unspoken and unpunished sport to hunt down and kill people like me. Oddly enough, it still is. We send entire armed forces to the mexican border to shoot and kill anyone that crosses that river. Why?? because we dont want there kind here.. I dont see what the big deal about calling a spade a spade is, especially as it concerns a dumb game.. Just admit it, accept it and get on with it..
You put up a request for a complete overhaul of gameplay and expect players who will be affected to NOT give you their opinion?
[/QUOTE]Google. Cache. Is. Your. Friend. You can delete threads from the forums, but they're usually cached on Google for months after they're deleted (and then sometimes you can find them at archive.org
Yeah... about that... I just checked both sources and didn't find a trace of the thread I was referring to...
Again, nice try, passing your post off as mine by not giving the link back to it, good attempt (really), unluckily for you, you aren't the only one who is prepared to go back and find quotes.
Remember this? I do, especially the "dishonesty and misrepresentation" part...
Any source for your 'the game is loosing players' assessment?
Honestly this is the typical 'game is doomed if you don't do exactly what I suggest to make it appeal to my tastes' proposal. And it fails to realize....
Teamwork is rewarded. Sure we lack trinity, and yes many players lack the capability to field an optimized team in a PuG setting, but teamwork is rewarded.
Attack Pattern Beta - Helps entire team.
Gravity Well - Helps entire team.
Energy Drains - Helps entire team.
Tanking - Helps entire team.
Just takes a bit more creativity to get the most out of it. But even DHCs perform much better against a held target with no subsystems, 0 defense rating, at point blank with no fear of attack. Even the record STF runs spam APB on everything, and they even crossheal!
And the reward? Get event done faster, get more events done.
But currently teamwork is not required. And that is a good thing for most content designed specifically to be enjoyed by your average player in the average PuG. That is a very good thing.
I have a variety of heal/buff-debuff skills available on my ships. The one that seems most effective is eng team 3. I use auxtStInt 3 most often for self heals. because it leave ET 3 available. I don't use TT all that often because it shares cooldown with ET 3 so I try other means to keep shields up. I also try to "passive heal" by running a full beam weapon array, using FAW and trying to stay alive myself while drawing fire away from other ships. I'm running about 50/50 in eSTF for not getting destroyed at least once. Just an opinion but I think it's unrealistic to expect not to be destroyed even once in awhile in an eSTF (especially CC, though I have occasionally done it) and blaming someone else, other than the enemy ship, when it does happen. That is not a personal criticism of anyone who believes otherwise.
In pugs, it is difficult to heal ships because they move in and out of the 10k heal range constantly or are not there to begin with and cruisers don't generally move fast enough to get to a damaged ship in time. Escorts notoriously move in and out of heal-range constantly. If you want a heal, stick close to my ship and I will get to you when and if I can before you are destroyed. My heals/buffs are not unlimited and I try to heal the most heavily damaged ship (escort or not) first, escorts get priority if all things are equal.
It is difficult to monitor my own ship status, the damage status of all other ships on my team (it is prohibitively difficult in the tholian action in Tau dewa since there is no team roster-status display and trying to dig through fight-spam there and click on each ship that might be damaged requires a 4th eye and a 3rd hand) and monitor the attack/damage /shield status of the enemy ship(s) as well as read the chat box all at the same time, at least reliably, so I might miss a heal request or have no heals available when you ask. It is also difficult to monitor all this and then type any reply in the chat box (with my 3rd hand- even though I have dozens of keybinds) all at the same time. Maybe I'm just a lousy player. Maybe if I spend another 700+ days playing, I may improve.
It seems that in the Crystalline Entity fight, heals might garner points since while I'm sure that my DPS is unremarkable, I have had more than one 1st and 2nd place finish and a load of 3rd place finishes and this seems to happen most often when I have been able to hand out a good many heals.
I like non-clique/fleet pugs. I like seeing players I have pug'd with before and learning who is good and who is not. I talk to these people, and give instructions to newbies at the beginning of scenarios, usually nothng in the middle of the battles, and constructive criticism and advice at the end, if anyone hangs around to listen and I try to solicit the advice of players I know to be good at the finish, by way of PM if possible. I usually don't type fast enough in game to chat back during a scenario, unless there is a long lull. (IRL I am blind in one eye and don't have full use of one hand but I like the feel of "playing the piano, which I formerly did, that I get from STO play. I also like the ST genre.
So, if you are in a pug and see me, and you want maximum heal potential from my not-indestructible cruiser, stay close, be patient, pray that I see you in time, and that I still have a heal or buff available. I may not be an "ace" player but neither am I an idiot. I will do my best to keep you alive for as long as I can before I too am destroyed. Hopefully we won't meet at the respawn point.
I know its a hard concept to grasp, but its called fact through observation. It is very obvious that opposed to a year ago where there were queue timers to login, and zones filling up to #60 and higher that this game was very busy. Tell me that is the case today, this month, or hell even last month.
These abilities are forced team-abilities. This is like calling a tax a damn donation. Stop playing spin doctor and stop trolling.
1. wahhh no one healed me, even though i am in an escort that other players tank in very well
2. wahhh no one healed me so i could get all the top rewards because i out DPS everyone
3. wahhh no one healed me so everyone is a sociopath.
it never occurred to you that:
1. the non escorts were concentrating on their own DPS to be competitive
2. in a PUG no one wants to volunteer to be a healer.
3. you make no mention of how many heals YOU threw. does that make YOU the sociopath?
when PWE finally balances ships by making an escort a TRUE glass cannon and bringing team heals into play, AND when they start adding total heals on other players into the numbers used for reward triggers then you might have a reason to whine
till then, I recommend the gouda. it's a nice cheese
Let me see if you're right:
1. Wahh I'm a narcissistic idiot.. Wahh!!
Nope.
1. And you don't think this is the problem -- you know that EVERYONE has to focus on DPS and not supporting the group to be competitive? Getting the hint to the purpose of the thread yet?
2. If a healer could have their heals counted as part of their total score, they would, I'm pretty sure of it.
3. So if I tell you my heals, I'm bragging (and a sociopath from the inflated ego), if I don't I'm a sociopath because you assume none. Nice way to play spin doctor, but I'll have you know I spin with the best. Nice troll piece though.
thanks for proving me correct. bravo.
every time you post "I'm right you are wrong and the game needs to change to suit ME!"
So, next week when people come back for the content update, then you'll happily admit that you're wrong? The population of the game is largely cyclical - it rises and falls in accordance with content releases.
None of those abilities are forced team abilities, they are all perfectly viable and useful in solo play as well. You're lashing out at nothing here, and making yourself look even sillier. Disagreeing with you is not trolling.
I don't believe I asked your opinion, I asked for constructive feedback. However, if you feel compelled to offer it so you can sleep better at night and feel better about yourself, knock yourself out, it is still unwanted nonetheless. If I did ask your opinion though, feel free to point that out, as I would need to make an edit.
You also seem to lack the basic comprehension aptitude required of that of a third grader as every post I've made has had jack to do with myself but based on a group of 4 friends that recently left (3 weeks ago) because of problems I didn't realize until then was a problem at all.
I realize asking a community that seems apparently dominated by sociopaths their opinion on sociopathy is not something I can make progress with which is why I was very careful in what I asked -- this is a given, however the problems can't be denied, they're all over these bloody forums and all over chat in every channel of the game. To sit and say a problem doesn't exist, well you're in denial or very likely that sociopath who's desperately striking back to preserve that bubble.
I have spent enough money to represent a group of players and am still an active Subscriber.
The scaling I described would not be noticeable by people who are not SOLOs like myself.
It is an add on that allows previously group required content to be solo'd OR grouped.
This would also add a mission replay element for those who have never tried it alone.
So it would be extra content using existing resources.
I would be willing to pay for the privelege of being able to solo group content.
O'Really? Not forced group abilities you say? So tell me how it is possible to use such an ability in a group environment without benefiting everyone? Please do explain. Again, paying taxes is not a donation <-- So did you miss the point there or are you intentionally trying to play a game of trollol dodge-ball?
Its fine though, respond with what you will, from this point forward, I'll only respond to healthy conversation that can both identify there is a problem and propose new solutions or amendments to the proposed solutions. If you like being ignored, have fun.
Posts of "We can't fix that so why bother" will also be ignored.
That's what Uhmari said when he was doing these threads... he continued replying...
My other game's DC Universe. It enforces roles, and adds the controller role. which not only debuffs, but also generates power for the group. (Think of them healing power.) That game's player base have gotten more toxic over time.
1) People can burn through most content by DPSing, so tanks can't get included in low level content, just the really hard stuff where the DPSes die if they look at Lex Luthor funny.
2) If a DPS goes down, it's always the Tank/Healer's fault, even though the idiot was meleeing Metallo, and has no clue how to block.
3) In 8 man end game raids, they only include one tank, one healer, and one troller, so they can include more DPSes. This, of course, adds pressure to those players. TRIBBLE up and everyone dies.
3/4 of the players are DPS, too, which doesn't help. There's also role specific gear, which adds whole nother level of drama. (Plus, you get points for completing styles, so you might want gear that's in every other way inferior to what you have now.)
Oh, and they can kick, if they need more drama.
On the STO side, I find healing others to be unnecesarly hard. The only way that I can target another ship is to click on it, and that randomly works. (To be fair, I have the same problem with enemies.) Supposedly there are keys to press to select another ship, but I've never gotten that to work, or don't have it set up correctly. Also, it's really easy to get more than 10 km away from some of your teammates, in which case, oh well. Don't know where they are, probably can't get to them in time.
One of the nice things about DC was that while everyone was expected to attack (that's how most classes self regen power), the heals were "heals lowest health." Controllers also had a "regen lowest power" ability. I think that healing in STO could be improved immensely if we had a simple "target lowest hull" and "target lowest shields" ability.
You may want to change your approach to escort if you are doing so poorly that you are wanting heals.
Just some pointers:
tactical team is your friend, have this up as much as you can.(if you have 2 tac slots, there is no excuse for not having this up)
Dont go half impulse (there are a few exceptions to that), speed = defense, it effects your evasion.
Most of the time I set my escorts up with chase cam and play it like a flight sim, just zipping in and out at max impulse in a sorta dogfight. (and putting evasive manuvers + brace for impact at fingers reach helps for tight situations)
I used my silly little t'varo for ages, dual cannons, turrets. No real "optimal" build, just following what I listed there.
While it sucks that healing isn't a thing in the game, honestly with pugs a generic build is going to do better than a specialized one that requires specific support. Considering how this game plays and the nature of the ship combat. Highly mobile escorts are harder to target with everyone drifting in and out of range all the time.
I play Star Trek because I love Star Trek.
I am an engineer and I fly a cruiser and I love it.
I fly a cruiser because for me, that's what Star Trek is all about.
I pug STF because I lack the game time and commitment to be in a fleet and honestly, I am done with intense gaming.
I have a good deal of offensive skills because if I don't, it takes ages to go through content.
...but beware... I AM A SOCIOPATH !!!
...and I am egocentric, self-centered, self-absorbed, a piece of TRIBBLE, etc.
Wow...
- Scotty, to La Forge
The risk-reward of fleet participation is the answer to the risk-risk conundrum of PUGs.
Forcing social-engineered conformity is antithetical to the random nature of PUGs.
Also,
Curious, did you diagnose your sample against the PCL-R?
An ongoing issue is extrapolating personality and behavioural deficits that over-identifies a population.
Correctly diagnosing psychopathy/antisocial behaviour is an ongoing debate.
While symptoms may manifest, interpretations, without clinical control groups, gives me pause to a formal diagnosis of PUG participants.
More likely his 'Thesis' is a load of trumped up BS to make himself sound and feel better about who he is while also trying to make us 'cower' to his supposed superior intellect. I don't have any training or degrees in psychology or medicine, but I would like to believe I know a bald-faced liar when I see one. After all, this is the internet is it not? I can say I'm a nascent demigod from the realm of 'Shangralahleelah' or something if I feel like, doesn't make it true. Granted an extreme example of 'B.S.'. I would like to imagine that it's getting my point across.
As for the original post, no, I didn't read it, but to be honest, given what the OP is spouting as his 'answer' to what seem to me to simply be people saying, 'I don't like that idea because (insert personal reasons here)' I'm not entirely sure I want to. Oh, and ongoing with the few people above me, I'm a Tactical Career C.O., I fly a Battle Cruiser because I like something with firepower and support capabilities which can 'hang' in a firefight. I cross heal, and use my Cruiser Commands more to benefit my teammates than myself, but because I don't 'shoehorn' myself into a pure DPS role and fly a proverbial 'glass cannon' the way most tac's do, I'm a sociopath... look out. As for Self-Centered, who isn't? The world would collapse with out some degree of 'self interest', Self-absorbed, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the same basic thing as 'self-centered'?
Thanks for bringing that post to my attention, I missed it myself, perhaps for the best... but hey, time to reply :P
I'd reason it's no less self-centred or self-absorbed to play an engineer in a dps cruiser than it is to play a tac/scort. Actually it opens up options, I can pull my weight when damage is what's required of me, I can spread debuffs around, I've killed things with ease that a tac/scort couldn't hope to take on alone or with the heals at my disposal (most of which I can and will share when I can afford to). So I find it's more functional than a tac/scort, keeps up with tac/scorts, does more for a team than a tac/scort... yeah... really self-centred, self-absorbed and sociopathic...
The number of times I've taken down a side of KASE with my favourite probesman faster than the combined efforts of 3 other players working on the other side would tend to suggest you under-estimate the capacity of a good cruiser build.
You sir, are very good at hating on anything that doesn't fit YOUR mold, sort of like this guy if anything running as an engineer gives me enough inbuilt capacity to keep myself alive while I do my damage that I can spare more heals for the local escort than the tac/cruiser you would rather I should run if I insisted upon running a dps cruiser. Why should I be penalised for being a large team contributor just because I don't do it the way YOU want me to?
What? You mean I should be self-centred and do my own thing for myself only? When I could easily be carrying bad pugs and doing them a favour but of course you know everything about how I fly and my priorities in a team situation...
The majority of everything posted by everyone after that point assumes a lot of what motivates the playerbase. The problem is framed incorrectly. Work backwards from the result to find the desired environment then compare that to what exists currently in game.
RESULT: A random (experience levels, gear quality, ability selection, native language) collection of players functions in a cooperative manner to complete an encounter.
This is my solution:
I am frankly tired of the vs TRIBBLE
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Having been a 'come lately' to this thread I didn't actually see your post on the solution to the issue with the lack of co-operation in most PUG's in game until now. That said, I do actually mostly agree with it, the only issue I see has to do with the old adage "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". In other words, you can offer all the incentive in the world, but if someone doesn't want what you're selling, they're not going to buy it.
Granted, I have no problem whatsoever with this as it would, in my opinion at least, go some way towards correcting the 'disparity' in what most consider to be the 'perfect teams' for most PvE endgame content as it exists currently. I wonder if you'll consider this addition I humbly suggest?
In regards to awards focused on more 'versatile' groups which still have considerable tactical 'punch', why not make it so that completing both the time and 'special' secondary objectives increases not just the 'marks reward' but also boosts the Dil reward if there is one and the overall quality of the gear received across the entire team. In other words, you reward the entire team for good 'team play'.
No, how about you explain? Because it sounds like you think the definition of a 'forced group' power is one which benefits a group. That is a bad definition, not least because it means basic weapon attacks are "forced group" powers, since, you know, you can't shoot the enemies in a group setting, without benefitting the group.
Your taxes analogy is both irrelevant and the opposite of what you want it to be. It's irrelevant because taxes are mandatory, while slotting the powers listed is not. Heck, even if you do have those powers slotted, activating them is still not mandatory. It goes the wrong way because it looks like you are trying to argue that the "proper" expression of a "team power" is one that benefits the team exclusively (and not the individual at all - a "donation"), and yet you are acting like powers that benefit everyone are bad somehow by "forcing" a player to benefit everyone. It's highly incoherent.
So, yeah, unless you want to clarify your definition of what a "forced group power" is, I stand by my claim that you are labelling the powers in question incorrectly, because you don't actually know what the label you are using means.
You know how you can really tell the people who want honest, open feedback? They generally don't attach conditions to what that feedback should be in order to be considered.
Just saying.
I do consider myself a bit anti-social, but in the terms you describe it, I have to disagree.
I must also point out that this thread is nothing if not just pure troll/flame bait and should probably be locked. If you have something that PWE needs to address, address it to them via support and not a public forum where you make it clear that people's opinions will be ignored.
This is a good idea. Granted, it may be difficult to implement well due to the fluid nature of healing in STO, but still a worthwhile addition, I think.
Improving group rewards is a good start, but ultimately, as saekiith stated in post #123, the devs need to change how to win. As it stands, DPS is all that matters. That's how it is because it's easy. Not just for players but for Cryptic as well. I imagine it's far less work to design new bad guys to blow up than to plan and implement entirely new ways to complete missions.
The redesigned CE mission was a good first step. Being rewarding for something other than just pew-pewing was a refreshing change. I think that adding increased group rewards for team play, as chef suggests, would be an excellent second step. But it can't be more 'Free X Captured Ships'. It needs to be 'Healed X Amount of Allied Ship Hull' or 'Shields'. Or maybe 'Intercepted Y Boarding Parties/Destructable Projectiles Aimed at Allied Ships'. How about 'X Allies Within Cruiser Comm Range for Y Duration'? Even 'Avoided Combat With X Encounters'? I'm spitballing here, so take it all with a grain of salt. But you get the idea.
I liked thunderhawk's idea about increasing the quality of team loot drops, especially if that increase occurs as optional objectives are completed (instant gratification ftw).
I don't and i have been around since late 2010. burned too many times with fleets so any chance of me getting fleet ship or elite weapons are out of the question.
One can only hope with random pugging on STFs that the others know what they are doing and leave it at that. however the OP should also realize this evidence means nothing as each person has their own fights in the game as well as outcomes.
I have ran 20 stfs recently only two so far have failed the optional objective;
One was IS because one player got ahead of himself and destroyed one of the four devices way too soon.
The other is KAS, someone did not have strong enough beams to destroy the probes in time.
However the vast majority knew what they were doing and only one STF had only one interaction out of all those PuG fights.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.