Not really. Fleet ships, lockbox ships and C-store ship packs are pure unabashed power creep. The slightly better ultra rare fleet gear is not that big a creep compared to the ships. The only way for power creep to really do a number on the game is if they raise the level cap and introduce T6 ships. Then we're all screwed.
LOL, Nice name
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I think power creep already HAS taken a toll on the game. For example, STFs which are supposed to be the hardest content in the game and used to take a skilled team who had a plan to snatch the optional with a minute or two to spare are now being completed by carefree weapons fire spam by randoms with ten minutes left
You're right the new ships have contributed to that, and I think some of the Doffs are to blame in a big way as well, but the gear is not innocent either.
LOL, Nice name
====
I think power creep already HAS taken a toll on the game. For example, STFs which are supposed to be the hardest content in the game and used to take a skilled team who had a plan to snatch the optional with a minute or two to spare are now being completed by carefree weapons fire spam by randoms with ten minutes left
You're right the new ships have contributed to that, and I think some of the Doffs are to blame in a big way as well, but the gear is not innocent either.
I did notice an improved efficiency, but it can also be due to players getting better at the missions.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I did notice an improved efficiency, but it can also be due to players getting better at the missions.
people bandy about numbers like 20k-50k dps, this is not efficiency, its power creep, numbers like that are well outside of whats needed to simply play the game.
Ive seen Tac cubes and gates in elite STF's melt in under 10 secs dues to having 3-4 escorts with tac captains on them. current elite stfs getting rolled in under 5 mins, the whole mission. the numbers don't lie
people bandy about numbers like 20k-50k dps, this is not efficiency, its power creep, numbers like that are well outside of whats needed to simply play the game.
Ive seen Tac cubes and gates in elite STF's melt in under 10 secs dues to having 3-4 escorts with tac captains on them. current elite stfs getting rolled in under 5 mins, the whole mission. the numbers don't lie
Where do you get the elite players like that? I could use them for getting the ground optionals : ) !
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Its the new ships. I live on the eSTF channel where some of the said elites remain (most have moved on to 5kdps) and while we steamroll anything in space under 5 mins, Hive Ground Elite still eludes us all.
But we'll see. The new kits should trivialize the Queen. Or else hopefully my doffed-up Security Protocols kit makes a difference.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Well I have to say thanks for making the new consoles worth picking up for beam boats but i do not think they needed to be higher % than the purple MK XII we already have but equal to the Blue Mk XII at 28.1%. That would be enough to get people to desire them and make donations to the holding.
I would suggest adding a diminishing return for everything but the base damage boost to be inline with engi or sci consoles where 2 is optimal and 3-4 of the same one is a wasted slot. Same damage % but crit increases diminish with more consoels. this way having 2 of each is optimal for a 4 slot ship. After that change maybe add kinetic damage instead of crit consoles for variety? So a ship with torps and mines could have a % bonus to those without hurting the main weapons output. Say 28.1% energy damage and 14% kinetic. Extra kinetic works the same as the energy % as far as returns rather than diminishing like the crit.
(fleetmates are gonna chew me out for saying lower the % when I advocated to raising it before, But I still believe 28.1 with extra crit is worthy and will get members wanting the holding leveled asap.)
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Its the new ships. I live on the eSTF channel where some of the said elites remain (most have moved on to 5kdps) and while we steamroll anything in space under 5 mins, Hive Ground Elite still eludes us all.
But we'll see. The new kits should trivialize the Queen. Or else hopefully my doffed-up Security Protocols kit makes a difference.
Get in contact with some of the ground-based fleets, particularly ground-PvP fleets.
I've never run a Hive elite ground with any of them (I want to though), and for months, from what I have heard ever since it was released, they've been able to easily get through that.
I don't doubt at all that they could carry someone through it. Then it'd just be a matter of learning it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Such fleets sound very effective, I dont doubt they can do it easily.
Also, all tactical consoles got diminishing returns, and I dont see why the fleet ones would not have it.
I would say they need to be at least as good as the Mark XII purples, since they are mark XII ultra purple rare.
So they need to be better than the mark XII purples. Which means they either need to be 30% + some other bonus, or bigger than 30% damage boost.
they don't have diminishing returns, they just only buff the base damage, not the damage after skills and power levels. This is why you can put up to 5 of them in, unlike engineering armor consoles, which are subject to returns, and after the 2nd the thirds all but not worth it, and a 4th or 5th is a total waste of slots.
Such fleets sound very effective, I dont doubt they can do it easily.
Also, all tactical consoles got diminishing returns, and I dont see why the fleet ones would not have it.
As explained by verline1, tac consoles don't have diminishing returns. Same applies to sci consoles. Only eng damage resistance consoles have diminishing returns.
I would say they need to be at least as good as the Mark XII purples, since they are mark XII ultra purple rare.
So they need to be better than the mark XII purples. Which means they either need to be 30% + some other bonus, or bigger than 30% damage boost.
Heh, they now have over 30% damage boost AND a very powerful bonus on top of it. The previous version with around 25% bonus damage and CritH/CritD were already better than Purple Mk XII. And you could even say that universally, because what does higher CritH and CritD mean? More damage. (Note, of course I'm talking about the damage specific tac consoles here.)
Due to the added bonuses, even the Embassy and Dil mine Mk X consoles are better than normal purple Mk XII consoles. Although you may get slightly less of a boost to the main skill these consoles attribute to.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
As explained by verline1, tac consoles don't have diminishing returns. Same applies to sci consoles. Only eng damage resistance consoles have diminishing returns.
Half true only. Power insulators have diminishing returns. I'm pretty sure the other "sci armor" consoles have similar mechanics, but I've only dealt with the power insulator ones.
some consoles do, some don't, I do know the armor ones do, and I remember when they changed it and why, it was the same time or right around the time they hard cap armor and shield res too due to engineers getting perfect shields, and perfect or near perfect hull res, and essentially becoming immune to damage in spurts.
They have never bothered with damage though, and as a result its essentially run rampant. its one of the few things that essentially has not been either thoroughly worked over, or beat to death with the nerf bat. it hasn't escaped totally unharmed, but in the scope of things its essentially done nothing but ramp up over time.
we have gotten creep on all sides, but the most telling has been damage, which between doffs, equipment, consoles, and buffs/debuffs, especially tac ones, this is why escorts are king for the most part right now, because damage is king, and nothing else really matters right now.
I used to have a running joke with gaming buddies, "Not winning, apply more dps" and it works in many cases, why, because unless mechanics are crafted specifically to defeat that sort of tactic it always works. don't need a damage sponge, aka tank, if the target dies in 3 secs flat, don't need control powers if everything's dead in 10 secs or less, don't need heals if nothings surviving long enough to over come self support heals. Don't need tactics and coordination if mechanics can be overcome by simply making the target explode faster.
This is what makes damage/dps creep the most damaging really, it edges out everything else to the point of making it more of a hindrance then a help.
Not large amounts of EC... It requires ALOT of grinding. And they loot capped the foundry... The most you can make is a few hundred thousand EC per day and that is with 2-3 hours of playtime... I don't know about everyone else but I have a life outside of STO. Games shouldn't be harder than real life...
If you are a solid built lvl 50, you can get 700k of drops in a foundry mission each day, per toon. It doesn't take 2-3 hours, it takes at most ten minutes per toon. You have to play foundry missions built for farming, though. Each foundry mission is not created the same. Do not play in elite mode, play in normal mode. You get more ec in normal mode, and it's faster. Don't play the missions where you have to fly about finding foes, it's a waste of time. You want missions with no talk, no unneeded pop up conversations, with foes in nebulas that take down their shields.
I use "New Romulus Defense" by Zadabell. Just sit and shoot, and collect the loot, tap the satellite and map. Four maps, and your done. The cube is the last foe on each map.
A lot of people play "Fed Farm 102", but it is all Klingon ships, so any level can play it. Drops are scaled to the toon playing it, but loot will be lower as it does matter what faction ship you kill as to the value of the drops. Klingon is the lowest. So expect the drops in this mission to be 500k or so for a level 50.
"Griff's farm" yields 600-700k loot and 900 dil ore as the reward, but takes considerably longer to run due to the pop up conversations slowing things down, and a useless end scene.
Do not run the battleship rumble missions, drops are low because other allied and foe ships "steal drops" from you. You have to damage a ship to be eligable to get any drops from it's demise. It's slow too, as shields are up on the targets, and you have to fly around, chasing ships, a total waste of your time.
If you are a solid built lvl 50, you can get 700k of drops in a foundry mission each day, per toon. It doesn't take 2-3 hours, it takes at most ten minutes per toon. You have to play foundry missions built for farming, though. Each foundry mission is not created the same. Do not play in elite mode, play in normal mode. You get more ec in normal mode, and it's faster. Don't play the missions where you have to fly about finding foes, it's a waste of time. You want missions with no talk, no unneeded pop up conversations, with foes in nebulas that take down their shields.
I use "New Romulus Defense" by Zadabell. Just sit and shoot, and collect the loot, tap the satellite and map. Four maps, and your done. The cube is the last foe on each map.
A lot of people play "Fed Farm 102", but it is all Klingon ships, so any level can play it. Drops are scaled to the toon playing it, but loot will be lower as it does matter what faction ship you kill as to the value of the drops. Klingon is the lowest. So expect the drops in this mission to be 500k or so for a level 50.
"Griff's farm" yields 600-700k loot and 900 dil ore as the reward, but takes considerably longer to run due to the pop up conversations slowing things down, and a useless end scene.
Do not run the battleship rumble missions, drops are low because other allied and foe ships "steal drops" from you. You have to damage a ship to be eligable to get any drops from it's demise. It's slow too, as shields are up on the targets, and you have to fly around, chasing ships, a total waste of your time.
So pick a good mission to farm, and good luck.
That's pure luck. The best I have gotten from a farm mission is 500k. Now one tac console is 40000k . That's 80 days for a singel console. Lul what a ripoff.
Good thing that's done now with the Spire.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I wont argue that the tac MKXII consoles weren't over priced, they were, but they are also top end, end of the line, no other upgrades type things.
People want the absolute best they can have, but many times they can get by, do well, or even do very well with less then the absolute best.
These consoles are the new best thing to have, period. with them buffed up to MKXII level bonus, it just makes their additional numbers all that more insane.
That's what some of us are driving at, dps power creep, these arnt on par with current gear, and just a different flavor, they blow it out of the water, which means damage done goes up yet again.
So we escalate damage, it creeps up yet more, the new stf's with the voth have invuln shields and such, which means being able to get in massive amounts of damage between the shields up and down times will be king, how fast you can kill the ships in storming the spire means more points towards the completion, its a spiral that only leads to a single fix point of, if your not doing dps, using these consoles, your dragging your team down will start to be the mentality.
that's why power creep in almost any direction is bad, with tanks it can eliminate the need for crowd control, and healers. With healers and crowd control it can eliminate the need for tanks, but with DPS it can actually eliminate the need for anything but dps at a certain point.
Wasn't the previous 25.5% + 1.6% crit consoles already better than the current 30% consoles? The only thing the new 31.9% + 1.6% consoles do is widen the gap further between heavy tac console ships and light tac console ships. Is that really something Cryptic wants?
Theres a reason why everyone dumps all of their universal consoles in science and engineering slots. This change just reinforces it.
They've been doing so well in indirectly addressing this disparity between ships in previous patches, too. This is a step in the wrong direction.
Wasn't the previous 25.5% + 1.6% crit consoles already better than the current 30% consoles? The only thing the new 31.9% + 1.6% consoles do is widen the gap further between heavy tac console ships and light tac console ships. Is that really something Cryptic wants?
Theres a reason why everyone dumps all of their universal consoles in science and engineering slots. This change just reinforces it.
They've been doing so well in indirectly addressing this disparity between ships in previous patches, too. This is a step in the wrong direction.
No, 25.5% and +1.6% crit is not as good as 30%.
Also, eng consoles are for armors and RCS if you are a battlecruiser with duals. Sci is for universals.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Also, eng consoles are for armors and RCS if you are a battlecruiser with duals. Sci is for universals.
That was a rhetorical question. 25.5% and +1.6% crit is, infact, better than 30%.
4.5% is a multiplier of a weapon's base damage. Base damage of a weapon is calculated before MK upgrades, DMG mods, and skill training.
1.6% is a multiplier of your total damage. Total damage occurs after MK upgrades, DMG mods, console bonuses, and skill training. This multiplier is further enhanced the more crit damage % you have.
4.5% of a base 100 is 4.5.
1.6% of a total 500 is 8.
1.6%, with a crit damage multiplier of 150%, is 12.
That was a rhetorical question. 25.5% and +1.6% crit is, infact, better than 30%.
4.5% is a multiplier of a weapon's base damage. Base damage of a weapon is calculated before MK upgrades, DMG mods, and skill training.
1.6% is a multiplier of your total damage. Total damage occurs after MK upgrades, DMG mods, console bonuses, and skill training. This multiplier is further enhanced the more crit damage % you have.
4.5% of a base 100 is 4.5.
1.6% of a total 500 is 8.
1.6%, with a crit damage multiplier of 150%, is 12.
I'm not really sold on that. 1.6% is added to your critical chance, not your severity right?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I don't like these new Fleet console changes, it's far more effective than the old Mk12 consoles. So like with the Embassy Consoles..........why bother even playing Toys in hopes for a Mk12 Very Rare console, when you can buy one.
Cryptic is totally ruining the STO Economy with these TRIBBLE consoles and really pushing power creep to insane levels that there won't be any challenge in STO. Especially when Elite STFs are now doable in 3 minutes, when before it was 4.
So thank you Cryptic, you dumbed down Elite. Might as well rename Elite to Normal and Normal to Easy. :rolleyes:
I'm not really sold on that. 1.6% is added to your critical chance, not your severity right?
ok lets expand on this.
4.5%
1.6%
So lets say you have 5 consoles, the max.
4.5% becomes a total of 22.5% of the base damage or using the base 100 , its 22.5 more damage total. so your only loosing 22.5 damage per shot, if the base were say 100, even if it were say 500, your only be loosing 112.5 damage per shot.
the crit on the other hand is 1.6 so it becomes 8%. so that's a flat 8% more chance to crit, and a crit is the multiplication of the total weapons damage, + your crit severity.
so 100% or double damage, + whatever % of severity you have due to skill, weapons, acc over flow. but for this we will say double.
so using the base 100 damage for both, if you fired 100 times, youd loose 2250 damage compared to the best mods out there. that's over 100 shots, for 1 weapon.
Now that's compared to the same 100 shots, double the damage on 8 hits, but after adding in skill, weapon power, and any other damage modifications like captain powers, boff powers, doff effects.
So for arguments sake lets say the damage is 300, 100 shots, 8 crits, I know that's pure %, but but 8 x 300 is 2400 damage. and that's if you have zero crit damage bonus, its easy to get the crit damage bonus up to 40%, and possible to take it over 100%. but even if you only had 20% more sevrarity it goes from 600 damage a crit to 660, the 8 crits would add 8x60 damage or 480 damage, and that's just 20% severity.
Mind you those are dirty quick numbers, id have to get in game and take a weapon off, put it on to get more solid with, without weapons power numbers, but they are a good example of how much crit matters compared to a bonus calculated from the base damage that is added on top, not multiplied by other things.
that's the real reason he crit is so powerful compared to the damage, its a multiplication of everything as a total, were as the damage is based on the weapons base damage, and layered on top of everything else, thus not multiplied by power level, skill.
Edit
when im off work ill hop on and pull solid numbers for a weapon base, and a weapon with skill and 125 power.
I don't like these new Fleet console changes, it's far more effective than the old Mk12 consoles. So like with the Embassy Consoles..........why bother even playing Toys in hopes for a Mk12 Very Rare console, when you can buy one.
Cryptic is totally ruining the STO Economy with these TRIBBLE consoles and really pushing power creep to insane levels that there won't be any challenge in STO. Especially when Elite STFs are now doable in 3 minutes, when before it was 4.
So thank you Cryptic, you dumbed down Elite. Might as well rename Elite to Normal and Normal to Easy. :rolleyes:
Power creep you have an argument, i don't mind the power creep myself but can't deny its happening and has been happening allot.
As to ruining the economy, no they are ruining it for those who were console crafters who sold mk 12 vr consoles for ridiculously high prices. For the vast majority of players in this game who do not run console crafting armies these fleet consoles are great news from an economic standpoint. I for one will be very happy with not having to shell out 200mil EC everytime i want to try a new energy type or equip a new character. Crafters will still be able to make and sell there consoles, as demand for them drops so will the cost of artifacts and particles, just won't be able to make as much.
Oh and elite stfs in 3 min, our current records for all but Hive is around 1:20
Power creep you have an argument, i don't mind the power creep myself but can't deny its happening and has been happening allot.
As to ruining the economy, no they are ruining it for those who were console crafters who sold mk 12 vr consoles for ridiculously high prices. For the vast majority of players in this game who do not run console crafting armies these fleet consoles are great news from an economic standpoint.
You're forgetting the number of people who pay for all their various stuff by farming NADORC and particle traces and selling to those crafters, or farming SB24 and Minefield hoping for Purple11 tac consoles and paying for their gear that way. Its easy to rant and rave about The 1%, but there's a lot more to an economy than just them.
Also if you need to rebuy purple12s every time you change energy type, then isn't the problem your epeen, not console costs?
I dunno if Cryptic is still willing to make changes on the consoles, but heres a suggestion:
Restrict Vulnerability Exploiter and Vulnerability Locator consoles to one per ship.
Ships may only carry one Exploiter and one Locator.
Any ship with more than two tac slots will see diminishing returns because the 3rd, 4th, and 5th tac slots won't have the additional +crit and +critD. All ships still benefit from these new consoles, but some ships benefit more than others. (specifically the underpowered and often lamented ones)
I dunno if Cryptic is still willing to make changes on the consoles, but heres a suggestion:
Restrict Vulnerability Exploiter and Vulnerability Locator consoles to one per ship.
Ships may only carry one Exploiter and one Locator.
Any ship with more than two tac slots will see diminishing returns because the 3rd, 4th, and 5th tac slots won't have the additional +crit and +critD. All ships still benefit from these new consoles, but some ships benefit more than others. (specifically the underpowered and often lamented ones)
Meh. Compared with Operative Trait Rom side, this isn't that big.
Probably "underpowered and often lamented" ships would benefit more if the Voth Rep consoles buffed the Science Proton damage instead of trying to put the Crit Genie back in the bottle.
By doing these overpowered consoles, Cryptic not only killing existing economic and one of the most importent doff mission, they also nerfing additional reward from "romulan c-store doff packs". Remove these consoles and make upgrade projects of existing MK12 consoles to consoles with better stats. With those upgrade projects you will not ruin existing economics and gameplay.
By doing these overpowered consoles, Cryptic not only killing existing economic and one of the most importent doff mission, they also nerfing additional reward from "romulan c-store doff packs". Remove these consoles and make upgrade projects of existing MK12 consoles to consoles with better stats. With those upgrade projects you will not ruin existing economics and gameplay.
Aaaah, trying to retain your monopoly.
But such an idea would ruin the whole fleet holding, so I dont think any developer would even consider such a ridiculous grinding idea.
The gameplay is unaffected. The economy would be improved, and exploiting would be fixed.
These forum posts are a testament to the power of human greed at the expense of others.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I don't like these new Fleet console changes, it's far more effective than the old Mk12 consoles. So like with the Embassy Consoles..........why bother even playing Toys in hopes for a Mk12 Very Rare console, when you can buy one.
Cryptic is totally ruining the STO Economy with these TRIBBLE consoles and really pushing power creep to insane levels that there won't be any challenge in STO. Especially when Elite STFs are now doable in 3 minutes, when before it was 4.
So thank you Cryptic, you dumbed down Elite. Might as well rename Elite to Normal and Normal to Easy. :rolleyes:
they think people will get in game ,buy dilithium with zen ,buy all ship equipment from fleets stores (aka cash store in other games) and kill npcs.The game has no crafting ,no ingame economy (trading paid items for other paid items is not a economy) no pvp ...they will see how long can live a "mmo" that has none of that.
As to ruining the economy, no they are ruining it for those who were console crafters who sold mk 12 vr consoles for ridiculously high prices. For the vast majority of players in this game who do not run console crafting armies these fleet consoles are great news from an economic standpoint. I for one will be very happy with not having to shell out 200mil EC everytime i want to try a new energy type or equip a new character. Crafters will still be able to make and sell there consoles, as demand for them drops so will the cost of artifacts and particles, just won't be able to make as much.
Oh and elite stfs in 3 min, our current records for all but Hive is around 1:20
Dunno how to put it simple so I wont overload your head with info because I see you don't like to think before you post ,but tactical consoles are mk XI or mk X ...not only mk XII.Mk XI are easy to get and the difference between 5 mk XII is 5 mk XI is not worth the difference in price so mk XII were more novelty items.
all fleets events drop mk XI purple consoles.They are not worth playing now.Even if they would drop mk XII are not worth playing.
Comments
LOL, Nice name
====
I think power creep already HAS taken a toll on the game. For example, STFs which are supposed to be the hardest content in the game and used to take a skilled team who had a plan to snatch the optional with a minute or two to spare are now being completed by carefree weapons fire spam by randoms with ten minutes left
You're right the new ships have contributed to that, and I think some of the Doffs are to blame in a big way as well, but the gear is not innocent either.
I did notice an improved efficiency, but it can also be due to players getting better at the missions.
people bandy about numbers like 20k-50k dps, this is not efficiency, its power creep, numbers like that are well outside of whats needed to simply play the game.
Ive seen Tac cubes and gates in elite STF's melt in under 10 secs dues to having 3-4 escorts with tac captains on them. current elite stfs getting rolled in under 5 mins, the whole mission. the numbers don't lie
Where do you get the elite players like that? I could use them for getting the ground optionals : ) !
But we'll see. The new kits should trivialize the Queen. Or else hopefully my doffed-up Security Protocols kit makes a difference.
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I would suggest adding a diminishing return for everything but the base damage boost to be inline with engi or sci consoles where 2 is optimal and 3-4 of the same one is a wasted slot. Same damage % but crit increases diminish with more consoels. this way having 2 of each is optimal for a 4 slot ship. After that change maybe add kinetic damage instead of crit consoles for variety? So a ship with torps and mines could have a % bonus to those without hurting the main weapons output. Say 28.1% energy damage and 14% kinetic. Extra kinetic works the same as the energy % as far as returns rather than diminishing like the crit.
(fleetmates are gonna chew me out for saying lower the % when I advocated to raising it before, But I still believe 28.1 with extra crit is worthy and will get members wanting the holding leveled asap.)
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Get in contact with some of the ground-based fleets, particularly ground-PvP fleets.
I've never run a Hive elite ground with any of them (I want to though), and for months, from what I have heard ever since it was released, they've been able to easily get through that.
I don't doubt at all that they could carry someone through it. Then it'd just be a matter of learning it.
Also, all tactical consoles got diminishing returns, and I dont see why the fleet ones would not have it.
I would say they need to be at least as good as the Mark XII purples, since they are mark XII ultra purple rare.
So they need to be better than the mark XII purples. Which means they either need to be 30% + some other bonus, or bigger than 30% damage boost.
they don't have diminishing returns, they just only buff the base damage, not the damage after skills and power levels. This is why you can put up to 5 of them in, unlike engineering armor consoles, which are subject to returns, and after the 2nd the thirds all but not worth it, and a 4th or 5th is a total waste of slots.
Heh, they now have over 30% damage boost AND a very powerful bonus on top of it. The previous version with around 25% bonus damage and CritH/CritD were already better than Purple Mk XII. And you could even say that universally, because what does higher CritH and CritD mean? More damage. (Note, of course I'm talking about the damage specific tac consoles here.)
Due to the added bonuses, even the Embassy and Dil mine Mk X consoles are better than normal purple Mk XII consoles. Although you may get slightly less of a boost to the main skill these consoles attribute to.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Half true only. Power insulators have diminishing returns. I'm pretty sure the other "sci armor" consoles have similar mechanics, but I've only dealt with the power insulator ones.
They have never bothered with damage though, and as a result its essentially run rampant. its one of the few things that essentially has not been either thoroughly worked over, or beat to death with the nerf bat. it hasn't escaped totally unharmed, but in the scope of things its essentially done nothing but ramp up over time.
we have gotten creep on all sides, but the most telling has been damage, which between doffs, equipment, consoles, and buffs/debuffs, especially tac ones, this is why escorts are king for the most part right now, because damage is king, and nothing else really matters right now.
I used to have a running joke with gaming buddies, "Not winning, apply more dps" and it works in many cases, why, because unless mechanics are crafted specifically to defeat that sort of tactic it always works. don't need a damage sponge, aka tank, if the target dies in 3 secs flat, don't need control powers if everything's dead in 10 secs or less, don't need heals if nothings surviving long enough to over come self support heals. Don't need tactics and coordination if mechanics can be overcome by simply making the target explode faster.
This is what makes damage/dps creep the most damaging really, it edges out everything else to the point of making it more of a hindrance then a help.
If you are a solid built lvl 50, you can get 700k of drops in a foundry mission each day, per toon. It doesn't take 2-3 hours, it takes at most ten minutes per toon. You have to play foundry missions built for farming, though. Each foundry mission is not created the same. Do not play in elite mode, play in normal mode. You get more ec in normal mode, and it's faster. Don't play the missions where you have to fly about finding foes, it's a waste of time. You want missions with no talk, no unneeded pop up conversations, with foes in nebulas that take down their shields.
I use "New Romulus Defense" by Zadabell. Just sit and shoot, and collect the loot, tap the satellite and map. Four maps, and your done. The cube is the last foe on each map.
A lot of people play "Fed Farm 102", but it is all Klingon ships, so any level can play it. Drops are scaled to the toon playing it, but loot will be lower as it does matter what faction ship you kill as to the value of the drops. Klingon is the lowest. So expect the drops in this mission to be 500k or so for a level 50.
"Griff's farm" yields 600-700k loot and 900 dil ore as the reward, but takes considerably longer to run due to the pop up conversations slowing things down, and a useless end scene.
Do not run the battleship rumble missions, drops are low because other allied and foe ships "steal drops" from you. You have to damage a ship to be eligable to get any drops from it's demise. It's slow too, as shields are up on the targets, and you have to fly around, chasing ships, a total waste of your time.
So pick a good mission to farm, and good luck.
That's pure luck. The best I have gotten from a farm mission is 500k. Now one tac console is 40000k . That's 80 days for a singel console. Lul what a ripoff.
Good thing that's done now with the Spire.
People want the absolute best they can have, but many times they can get by, do well, or even do very well with less then the absolute best.
These consoles are the new best thing to have, period. with them buffed up to MKXII level bonus, it just makes their additional numbers all that more insane.
That's what some of us are driving at, dps power creep, these arnt on par with current gear, and just a different flavor, they blow it out of the water, which means damage done goes up yet again.
So we escalate damage, it creeps up yet more, the new stf's with the voth have invuln shields and such, which means being able to get in massive amounts of damage between the shields up and down times will be king, how fast you can kill the ships in storming the spire means more points towards the completion, its a spiral that only leads to a single fix point of, if your not doing dps, using these consoles, your dragging your team down will start to be the mentality.
that's why power creep in almost any direction is bad, with tanks it can eliminate the need for crowd control, and healers. With healers and crowd control it can eliminate the need for tanks, but with DPS it can actually eliminate the need for anything but dps at a certain point.
Theres a reason why everyone dumps all of their universal consoles in science and engineering slots. This change just reinforces it.
They've been doing so well in indirectly addressing this disparity between ships in previous patches, too. This is a step in the wrong direction.
No, 25.5% and +1.6% crit is not as good as 30%.
Also, eng consoles are for armors and RCS if you are a battlecruiser with duals. Sci is for universals.
That was a rhetorical question. 25.5% and +1.6% crit is, infact, better than 30%.
4.5% is a multiplier of a weapon's base damage. Base damage of a weapon is calculated before MK upgrades, DMG mods, and skill training.
1.6% is a multiplier of your total damage. Total damage occurs after MK upgrades, DMG mods, console bonuses, and skill training. This multiplier is further enhanced the more crit damage % you have.
4.5% of a base 100 is 4.5.
1.6% of a total 500 is 8.
1.6%, with a crit damage multiplier of 150%, is 12.
I'm not really sold on that. 1.6% is added to your critical chance, not your severity right?
Cryptic is totally ruining the STO Economy with these TRIBBLE consoles and really pushing power creep to insane levels that there won't be any challenge in STO. Especially when Elite STFs are now doable in 3 minutes, when before it was 4.
So thank you Cryptic, you dumbed down Elite. Might as well rename Elite to Normal and Normal to Easy. :rolleyes:
ok lets expand on this.
4.5%
1.6%
So lets say you have 5 consoles, the max.
4.5% becomes a total of 22.5% of the base damage or using the base 100 , its 22.5 more damage total. so your only loosing 22.5 damage per shot, if the base were say 100, even if it were say 500, your only be loosing 112.5 damage per shot.
the crit on the other hand is 1.6 so it becomes 8%. so that's a flat 8% more chance to crit, and a crit is the multiplication of the total weapons damage, + your crit severity.
so 100% or double damage, + whatever % of severity you have due to skill, weapons, acc over flow. but for this we will say double.
so using the base 100 damage for both, if you fired 100 times, youd loose 2250 damage compared to the best mods out there. that's over 100 shots, for 1 weapon.
Now that's compared to the same 100 shots, double the damage on 8 hits, but after adding in skill, weapon power, and any other damage modifications like captain powers, boff powers, doff effects.
So for arguments sake lets say the damage is 300, 100 shots, 8 crits, I know that's pure %, but but 8 x 300 is 2400 damage. and that's if you have zero crit damage bonus, its easy to get the crit damage bonus up to 40%, and possible to take it over 100%. but even if you only had 20% more sevrarity it goes from 600 damage a crit to 660, the 8 crits would add 8x60 damage or 480 damage, and that's just 20% severity.
Mind you those are dirty quick numbers, id have to get in game and take a weapon off, put it on to get more solid with, without weapons power numbers, but they are a good example of how much crit matters compared to a bonus calculated from the base damage that is added on top, not multiplied by other things.
that's the real reason he crit is so powerful compared to the damage, its a multiplication of everything as a total, were as the damage is based on the weapons base damage, and layered on top of everything else, thus not multiplied by power level, skill.
Edit
when im off work ill hop on and pull solid numbers for a weapon base, and a weapon with skill and 125 power.
And the tac console scam was a part of the economy that needed crashing.
Power creep you have an argument, i don't mind the power creep myself but can't deny its happening and has been happening allot.
As to ruining the economy, no they are ruining it for those who were console crafters who sold mk 12 vr consoles for ridiculously high prices. For the vast majority of players in this game who do not run console crafting armies these fleet consoles are great news from an economic standpoint. I for one will be very happy with not having to shell out 200mil EC everytime i want to try a new energy type or equip a new character. Crafters will still be able to make and sell there consoles, as demand for them drops so will the cost of artifacts and particles, just won't be able to make as much.
Oh and elite stfs in 3 min, our current records for all but Hive is around 1:20
You're forgetting the number of people who pay for all their various stuff by farming NADORC and particle traces and selling to those crafters, or farming SB24 and Minefield hoping for Purple11 tac consoles and paying for their gear that way. Its easy to rant and rave about The 1%, but there's a lot more to an economy than just them.
Also if you need to rebuy purple12s every time you change energy type, then isn't the problem your epeen, not console costs?
Restrict Vulnerability Exploiter and Vulnerability Locator consoles to one per ship.
Ships may only carry one Exploiter and one Locator.
Any ship with more than two tac slots will see diminishing returns because the 3rd, 4th, and 5th tac slots won't have the additional +crit and +critD. All ships still benefit from these new consoles, but some ships benefit more than others. (specifically the underpowered and often lamented ones)
Meh. Compared with Operative Trait Rom side, this isn't that big.
Probably "underpowered and often lamented" ships would benefit more if the Voth Rep consoles buffed the Science Proton damage instead of trying to put the Crit Genie back in the bottle.
Aaaah, trying to retain your monopoly.
But such an idea would ruin the whole fleet holding, so I dont think any developer would even consider such a ridiculous grinding idea.
The gameplay is unaffected. The economy would be improved, and exploiting would be fixed.
These forum posts are a testament to the power of human greed at the expense of others.
they think people will get in game ,buy dilithium with zen ,buy all ship equipment from fleets stores (aka cash store in other games) and kill npcs.The game has no crafting ,no ingame economy (trading paid items for other paid items is not a economy) no pvp ...they will see how long can live a "mmo" that has none of that.
Dunno how to put it simple so I wont overload your head with info because I see you don't like to think before you post ,but tactical consoles are mk XI or mk X ...not only mk XII.Mk XI are easy to get and the difference between 5 mk XII is 5 mk XI is not worth the difference in price so mk XII were more novelty items.
all fleets events drop mk XI purple consoles.They are not worth playing now.Even if they would drop mk XII are not worth playing.