These forum posts are a testament to the power of human greed at the expense of others.
Yep.
The entire thread screams this, some behave like the new consoles will be the end of the world (well, for some it will be the end of their financial "empire", or at least will put it on a standstill).
There are still enough opportunitys to earn money and trade goods, but it will be harder to pull others over the barrel like it happened in the past with some totally unrealitic prices, far from reality.
In the future it will be not enough to buy 20 alien artifacts +datasamples and log in with your chars twice a day for a bazillion EC.
The "economy" of STO is not in danger (nowhere near, of course, the "economy" of some players is) just because one type of consoles is obsolete.
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
Mine console came out making nuetronium and RCS consoles obsolete and everyone who made MK XII purple claimed the sky was falling. And yet I see and participate in a functioning economy everytime I go to the exchange. Now the new fleet tac consoles will make the MK XII obsolete and I cannot see the economy doing anything more than has happened in the past. the now obsolete consoles drop in price everything else remains exactly as it is. 1 product does not make an economy and when selling a product one must know that eventualy that product will become obsolete.
For people that are crying because next week they officialy lose a cash cow... too bad, so sad, not a single tear will drop for you. You had your time rooking fellow players, now it is time you moved on to something else.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
The price of the consoles are influenced by the following things:
1. Investment (Purple Engineer DOffs with three critical traits, Particle Traces, Alien artifacts)
2. RNG (There is only a minimal chance to get a purple MK XII console)
3. Supply and Demand (some console types are worthless, others are in high demand)
It's not a scam nor are any of these prices 'unrealistic'. People have to invest a considerable sum of EC to make these consoles and then pray to the Gods of Randomness that they get one of the very few worthwile consoles. I stopped making these consoles a year ago because I seldom got lucky. Most of the time I effectively lost EC in the process.
Seriously, some of you people sound like you want to purchase a yacht for 5 Dollars and claim the seller is trying to scam you when he tells you he wants millions because of all the investments he had to make in having it build. If you don't understand these basics in economics, then please do the world a favour and stay away from politics. People like you can easily ruin a country's economy.
The price of the consoles are influenced by the following things:
1. Investment (Purple Engineer DOffs with three critical traits, Particle Traces, Alien artifacts)
2. RNG (There is only a minimal chance to get a purple MK XII console)
3. Supply and Demand (some console types are worthless, others are in high demand)
It's not a scam nor are any of these prices 'unrealistic'. People have to invest a considerable sum of EC to make these consoles and then pray to the Gods of Randomness that they get one of the very few worthwile consoles. I stopped making these consoles a year ago because I seldom got lucky. Most of the time I effectively lost EC in the process.
Seriously, some of you people sound like you want to purchase a yacht for 5 Dollars and claim the seller is trying to scam you when he tells you he wants millions because of all the investments he had to make in having it build. If you don't understand these basics in economics, then please do the world a favour and stay away from politics. People like you can easily ruin a country's economy.
I think they are trolling because I refuse to believe they are that stupid.The average player in sto wants everything from day one by paying .That's the entire game experience in this game ...no pvp ,trading/ingame economy/exploration or crafting....just mindless killing npcs.
The price of the consoles are influenced by the following things:
1. Investment (Purple Engineer DOffs with three critical traits, Particle Traces, Alien artifacts)
2. RNG (There is only a minimal chance to get a purple MK XII console)
3. Supply and Demand (some console types are worthless, others are in high demand)
It's not a scam nor are any of these prices 'unrealistic'. People have to invest a considerable sum of EC to make these consoles and then pray to the Gods of Randomness that they get one of the very few worthwile consoles. I stopped making these consoles a year ago because I seldom got lucky. Most of the time I effectively lost EC in the process.
Seriously, some of you people sound like you want to purchase a yacht for 5 Dollars and claim the seller is trying to scam you when he tells you he wants millions because of all the investments he had to make in having it build. If you don't understand these basics in economics, then please do the world a favour and stay away from politics. People like you can easily ruin a country's economy.
Their investement is very little.
They can get the doffs needed by simply doing doff missions, and they can get the artifacts with duty officer missions too.
What you call a Yact is actually a rotting wooden boat.
Of course, if they are too lazy to invest the little time these doff missions need, and want to buy everything fast for EC, than its their own problem.
Let me put it this way.
Two people want to sell chicken soup!
1 Seller A raises chickens, boils them and sells the meat for X price.
2 Seller B, who is very stupid, goes to Restaurants, and buys chicken meals so that he can take the meat home and put it in the soup. This method is way more expensive than A method.
3 Seller B sells the chickens for a ludicrious Y price, but some stupid fool buys it.
4 Seller A catches on to this, and raises his prices too, earning enough money to fill a cave.
5 Seller Fleet comes, and offers soup at a smaller price.
6 Seller A and B are now whining because their monopoly cashcow is down.
Yes. This is free market, but in free market new suppliers like Fleet holdings can happen too.
In free market, a new seller may just as well crash the older ones if they were ripping people off this much.
Plus it is hypocrisy to claim that the free market is good when you are the only supplier, and call it bad when someone else (fleet holdings) enter the market.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Their investement is very little.
They can get the doffs needed by simply doing doff missions, and they can get the artifacts with duty officer missions too.
What you call a Yact is actually a rotting wooden boat.
Of course, if they are too lazy to invest the little time these doff missions need, and want to buy everything fast for EC, than its their own problem.
Let me put it this way.
Two people want to sell chicken soup!
1 Seller A raises chickens, boils them and sells the meat for X price.
2 Seller B, who is very stupid, goes to Restaurants, and buys chicken meals so that he can take the meat home and put it in the soup. This method is way more expensive than A method.
3 Seller B sells the chickens for a ludicrious Y price, but some stupid fool buys it.
4 Seller A catches on to this, and raises his prices too, earning enough money to fill a cave.
5 Seller Fleet comes, and offers soup at a smaller price.
6 Seller A and B are now whining because their monopoly cashcow is down.
Yes. This is free market, but in free market new suppliers like Fleet holdings can happen too.
In free market, a new seller may just as well crash the older ones if they were ripping people off this much.
Plus it is hypocrisy to claim that the free market is good when you are the only supplier, and call it bad when someone else (fleet holdings) enter the market.
You and others keep calling it a monopoly when anyone who felt like it could have started crafting consoles for the same investment you mention here and other places. There was nothing stopping anyone that felt like it from crafting consoles, the fact that people whined about the price of the consoles is because they did not want to bother trying to make them themselves. It can only be a monopoly if others are kept from doing the same thing and there was nothing stopping you or other people from going through the process except for the fact that they did not want to bother.
The only console left that has any worth from crafting after this that can't be gotten in other ways in the +x% max shield. All of the rest of the items that had any value from the crafting have been added to the SB holdings and made worthless.
This change only helps me though since i NEVER considered the +30% consoles worth the price and normally ran with 26 or at most 28% ones. Now I can increase all my dmg output for a trivial cost.
Your supplier comarison is also not that great. I would equate the fleet holding to a government stepping in and deciding to sell the item you have been producing instead. You can't compete against something that takes no time and has no costs but unlimited production. If the supply of consoles had been higher then the cost would have been lower, now the supply of better consoles is unlimited so the price will plumet.
I don't expect to see more then 1-2 +30% consoles on the exchange a couple of weeks after fleets cap the Spire holding. Almost none of the people currently crafting them will bother continueing to do so so the supply with drop to even lower levels then now. Main source in the future is likely to be the doff packs during a promotion, although this is likely to drop the interest in those as well.
The only console left that has any worth from crafting after this that can't be gotten in other ways in the +x% max shield. All of the rest of the items that had any value from the crafting have been added to the SB holdings and made worthless.
This change only helps me though since i NEVER considered the +30% consoles worth the price and normally ran with 26 or at most 28% ones. Now I can increase all my dmg output for a trivial cost.
Your supplier comarison is also not that great. I would equate the fleet holding to a government stepping in and deciding to sell the item you have been producing instead. You can't compete against something that takes no time and has no costs but unlimited production. If the supply of consoles had been higher then the cost would have been lower, now the supply of better consoles is unlimited so the price will plumet.
You mean like the puprle mk xii Neutroniums are worthless vendor trash now?
Doesn't matter.
And calling others Trolls wont help (you).
You should better watch for a new source of income as the first Spire holdings will be open to the public in Service Channels in a few weeks (i for my part have opened the doors of my T3 Trade/Development KDF mine a few weeks ago in addition to my Suliban Cell Ship and enjoy to provide *free* invites to the public, i hope i can do the same for consoles, but for a solo fleet the dilithium costs of the spire are a bit steep).
And to one of the others... don't tell me how haaaard it is to get console crafting DOFFs and items (really? the buying price of those ressources are a joke, it was a license to print money) i have several chars with ~80 purple DOFFs each (i usually keep the blues from the questchains for nostalgic reasons) just from doing a few DOFF exchange missions per week, i don't know how many console crafting DOFFs i have generated that way in the last 9 Months, but it was enough to fund a small fleet of [EDIT] Lockbox Ships (granted: i generated legions of bio- and geologists too, those usually went to the mine).
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
Honestly the console-crafting thing is a side discussion anyways (fueled by envy apparently). Really who uses Purple12 for anything other than ego? The boosted power creep and that its been adjusted to ensure PWE gets their cut, thats the main issue. Say no to power creep!
They see people with purple 12s and figure their e-junk isn't big enough, and run out to find purple 12s for themselves. Or so they can play top difficulty stuff on the elite difficulty setting. I've never touched my difficulty slider, so don't entirely see that great a point to it. I've run an alt entirely on stuff available as mission rewards from a FE series. (well, main equipment-wise, needed to get consoles) But again, normal difficulty, so not relevant to PVP or elite difficulty settings.
Still, I am sure there will be lone wolves who do not like fleets, and thus will still buy the old mark XIIs.
That, and people who are in fleets not active enough to get their starbases updated to get fleet elite equipment in anything resembling a reasonable time. Like mine, with me semi-active and one other semi-active. Reputation equipment and old XII's will be the order of the day for a long time.
That, and people who are in fleets not active enough to get their starbases updated to get fleet elite equipment in anything resembling a reasonable time. Like mine, with me semi-active and one other semi-active. Reputation equipment and old XII's will be the order of the day for a long time.
Public Service and NOP Public Service channels takes care of slow leveling fleets. Infact all you need to do is get the holding opened and then it is just provisions and you can get anything and everything. For T5 fleet ships, Get some EC built up and buy the right to buy one. I bought 2 T5 fleet ships while my fleet only has T4 that way.
The old consoles will be placeholders for fleets and for solo no fleet players.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
the performance difference between MK XI and MK XII purple consoles was still minimal, it was there, but minimal. the price difference was stupid, but that's only a issue if you want to be at the absolute max of what you can do.
The prices were a tad out of control, but they are for several things, certain types of doffs, some ships, so on, so forth. odds are this will inflate some of those prices more.
the real problem here is that these new consoles went from being as good as, though a different flavor, to being far better then MKXII ones. which is the whole power creep thing.
If they were only better with the right doffs, weapons, and set up, an in general inline with the MKXII ones outside of specific builds, then it wouldn't be such a huge thing, still not healthy since it would lead to one build rules them all, but far less damaging that just outright displacing the current top end consoles.
I never liked buying more then MK XI my self due to price, and how little the extra performance was, so I get why people wanted the price down, though I still think they are stuck on having to have the absolute best. But I got why they were so expensive, it was the rarity. though part of that's people playing the AH and keeping prices high.
But all of that should take a back seat to the issue of creeping power, in this case its a bit less of a creep, and more of a hop, and that fact that this could well mean that the game gets yet more dps orientated.
Why is power creep considered a bad thing at all? Elite powergamers should be happy that they can juice out an extra 3-5% efficiency, and noobs should be happy because it will help them do at least something right.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Why is power creep considered a bad thing at all? Elite powergamers should be happy that they can juice out an extra 3-5% efficiency, and noobs should be happy because it will help them do at least something right.
it throws the already out of whack pvp even more out of whack.
It makes nothing but damage done and dps matter in the case of dps creep, it removes the need for some cpatian types, powers.
you can also argue that it cheapens the gaming experience by removing any real challenge at all, and focusing it all on how much damage you can go. but you can "gear down" to get around that.
the biggest thing it does is slant teams game play, not pvp, towards whatever the creep is, or which every is largest. Like right now its slanted towards tac captains, in escorts, with 5 tac console slots, or the rommy dread, using DHC's. Why, because any other ship, captain, or set up you could use in pve right now would be sub par, it would work, but youd be done faster with just another tac cap in a ship tweaked out for max dps.
there is no need for tactics, no need for trinity, healers, tanks, when all targets can be melted before they become a problem. lump in that most stfs have time constraints, and you compound people wanting to be done fast, with a need to be fast.
in essence power creep pigeon holes much of the game play into one super effective type, and can make a lot of game play very trivial, unchallenging, unrewarding, and remove any need to aspire to more.
remember its not creep when game play also evolves to be harder, that's natural progression, but this is not that.
I get that people want to be done with things they have done 1000 times before as quickly as possible, but cheapen the experience, or trivialize it too much, and well, why play.
it throws the already out of whack pvp even more out of whack.
It makes nothing but damage done and dps matter in the case of dps creep, it removes the need for some cpatian types, powers.
you can also argue that it cheapens the gaming experience by removing any real challenge at all, and focusing it all on how much damage you can go. but you can "gear down" to get around that.
the biggest thing it does is slant teams game play, not pvp, towards whatever the creep is, or which every is largest. Like right now its slanted towards tac captains, in escorts, with 5 tac console slots, or the rommy dread, using DHC's. Why, because any other ship, captain, or set up you could use in pve right now would be sub par, it would work, but youd be done faster with just another tac cap in a ship tweaked out for max dps.
there is no need for tactics, no need for trinity, healers, tanks, when all targets can be melted before they become a problem. lump in that most stfs have time constraints, and you compound people wanting to be done fast, with a need to be fast.
in essence power creep pigeon holes much of the game play into one super effective type, and can make a lot of game play very trivial, unchallenging, unrewarding, and remove any need to aspire to more.
remember its not creep when game play also evolves to be harder, that's natural progression, but this is not that.
I get that people want to be done with things they have done 1000 times before as quickly as possible, but cheapen the experience, or trivialize it too much, and well, why play.
So it unbalances pvp? Now that seems like a more valid concern , though honestly I dont pvp at all.
They could fix that by simply reducing the effectiveness of certain things to players, like what they did with the breen ICE pulsewave.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
So it unbalances pvp? Now that seems like a more valid concern , though honestly I dont pvp at all.
They could fix that by simply reducing the effectiveness of certain things to players, like what they did with the breen ICE pulsewave.
that's one sentence in all that, the rest of it applies to pve
I don't use pvp to validate arguments currently since well its borked, out of balance already, im just pointing out that on top of all the things it does to pve, it also push's that more out of whack.
it throws the already out of whack pvp even more out of whack.
It makes nothing but damage done and dps matter in the case of dps creep, it removes the need for some cpatian types, powers.
you can also argue that it cheapens the gaming experience by removing any real challenge at all, and focusing it all on how much damage you can go. but you can "gear down" to get around that.
the biggest thing it does is slant teams game play, not pvp, towards whatever the creep is, or which every is largest. Like right now its slanted towards tac captains, in escorts, with 5 tac console slots, or the rommy dread, using DHC's. Why, because any other ship, captain, or set up you could use in pve right now would be sub par, it would work, but youd be done faster with just another tac cap in a ship tweaked out for max dps.
there is no need for tactics, no need for trinity, healers, tanks, when all targets can be melted before they become a problem. lump in that most stfs have time constraints, and you compound people wanting to be done fast, with a need to be fast.
in essence power creep pigeon holes much of the game play into one super effective type, and can make a lot of game play very trivial, unchallenging, unrewarding, and remove any need to aspire to more.
remember its not creep when game play also evolves to be harder, that's natural progression, but this is not that.
I get that people want to be done with things they have done 1000 times before as quickly as possible, but cheapen the experience, or trivialize it too much, and well, why play.
There is a lot more defense creep than damage creep in pvp
Its extremely rare to get nailed out 1v1 vs anything in short order. Only a dedicated vaper can do that, and not every time.
In premade matches it takes a full 3-4 man focus fire to pound down even a squishy who is being crosshealed ad nauseum
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There is a lot more defense creep than damage creep in pvp
Its extremely rare to get nailed out 1v1 vs anything in short order. Only a dedicated vaper can do that, and not every time.
In premade matches it takes a full 3-4 man focus fire to pound down even a squishy who is being crosshealed ad nauseum
yhea but this still throws it even more out of joint, but pvp has been off balance for, well always.
even at launch it was out of whack, with sci locking everyone down for 45-60 secs at a time. then came the KDF carrier spam, the real deal, with clouds of pets, then perfect shield and hull res engis, and so on.
pvp is going to need to go through a serious hammering out, stuff like this just makes it worse, but oh well.
and on the pve side, well that was already easy, this just makes it more of a joke
yhea but this still throws it even more out of joint, but pvp has been off balance for, well always.
even at launch it was out of whack, with sci locking everyone down for 45-60 secs at a time. then came the KDF carrier spam, the real deal, with clouds of pets, then perfect shield and hull res engis, and so on.
pvp is going to need to go through a serious hammering out, stuff like this just makes it worse, but oh well.
and on the pve side, well that was already easy, this just makes it more of a joke
Actually, those were the times when Sci was useful in Pve.
It was not the tac power creep that did Sci in, it was the big pvp nerfbat they got hit with.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Actually, those were the times when Sci was useful in Pve.
It was not the tac power creep that did Sci in, it was the big pvp nerfbat they got hit with.
I never said nor implied that sci was done in by anything other then being massively over powered at release, which it was, they went over board, but it needed a nerf at release.
You chose to say that I implied tac had anything to do with it, which I didn't.
Honestly the console-crafting thing is a side discussion anyways (fueled by envy apparently). Really who uses Purple12 for anything other than ego?
I have mostly XII purple stuff on my Deep Space Science Vessel and I can't even come close to dealing the amount of damage others can, especially those with better ships.
I keep reading about how XII equipment is just about ego, but actually it's about not being useless in STFs and causing optionals to fail.
Certainly, optimization can help to a point. However, when adding up all the small percentage improvements one can get to the point where there is a considerable difference in effectiveness.
The high EC Exchange console problem could have been dealt with differently, along with the problem crafters have of getting a good console so rarely. The crafting mission could have been less demanding in terms of the DOFFs needed and the chance of not getting green. In fact, green consoles could have been eliminated altogether from the job. The result would be a lot more blue and purple consoles and thus lower prices due to higher supply. More people could craft if the DOFF requirements weren't so steep, including silver players who haven't spent Zen to increase the EC cap. The NADORC mission could have a shorter cooldown, too.
People thumb their noses at the crafters, but it does take quite a bit of time/EC/effort to get decent consoles. I spent about 10 million buying resolve doffs with one extra trait (like stubborn) and I crafted six consoles before I gave up. Of those I got one purple console and it wasn't worth much at all. Crafting in STO is broken because it costs more to craft than one can get from selling the crafted stuff. The fleet gear makes the problem worse.
Comments
And yes, most people play pve. They do not play for pvp, not economy , no crafting. They want to go and blow up borgs and space dinosaurs.
Yep.
The entire thread screams this, some behave like the new consoles will be the end of the world (well, for some it will be the end of their financial "empire", or at least will put it on a standstill).
There are still enough opportunitys to earn money and trade goods, but it will be harder to pull others over the barrel like it happened in the past with some totally unrealitic prices, far from reality.
In the future it will be not enough to buy 20 alien artifacts +datasamples and log in with your chars twice a day for a bazillion EC.
The "economy" of STO is not in danger (nowhere near, of course, the "economy" of some players is) just because one type of consoles is obsolete.
For people that are crying because next week they officialy lose a cash cow... too bad, so sad, not a single tear will drop for you. You had your time rooking fellow players, now it is time you moved on to something else.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
1. Investment (Purple Engineer DOffs with three critical traits, Particle Traces, Alien artifacts)
2. RNG (There is only a minimal chance to get a purple MK XII console)
3. Supply and Demand (some console types are worthless, others are in high demand)
It's not a scam nor are any of these prices 'unrealistic'. People have to invest a considerable sum of EC to make these consoles and then pray to the Gods of Randomness that they get one of the very few worthwile consoles. I stopped making these consoles a year ago because I seldom got lucky. Most of the time I effectively lost EC in the process.
Seriously, some of you people sound like you want to purchase a yacht for 5 Dollars and claim the seller is trying to scam you when he tells you he wants millions because of all the investments he had to make in having it build. If you don't understand these basics in economics, then please do the world a favour and stay away from politics. People like you can easily ruin a country's economy.
I think they are trolling because I refuse to believe they are that stupid.The average player in sto wants everything from day one by paying .That's the entire game experience in this game ...no pvp ,trading/ingame economy/exploration or crafting....just mindless killing npcs.
Their investement is very little.
They can get the doffs needed by simply doing doff missions, and they can get the artifacts with duty officer missions too.
What you call a Yact is actually a rotting wooden boat.
Of course, if they are too lazy to invest the little time these doff missions need, and want to buy everything fast for EC, than its their own problem.
Let me put it this way.
Two people want to sell chicken soup!
1 Seller A raises chickens, boils them and sells the meat for X price.
2 Seller B, who is very stupid, goes to Restaurants, and buys chicken meals so that he can take the meat home and put it in the soup. This method is way more expensive than A method.
3 Seller B sells the chickens for a ludicrious Y price, but some stupid fool buys it.
4 Seller A catches on to this, and raises his prices too, earning enough money to fill a cave.
5 Seller Fleet comes, and offers soup at a smaller price.
6 Seller A and B are now whining because their monopoly cashcow is down.
Yes. This is free market, but in free market new suppliers like Fleet holdings can happen too.
In free market, a new seller may just as well crash the older ones if they were ripping people off this much.
Plus it is hypocrisy to claim that the free market is good when you are the only supplier, and call it bad when someone else (fleet holdings) enter the market.
You and others keep calling it a monopoly when anyone who felt like it could have started crafting consoles for the same investment you mention here and other places. There was nothing stopping anyone that felt like it from crafting consoles, the fact that people whined about the price of the consoles is because they did not want to bother trying to make them themselves. It can only be a monopoly if others are kept from doing the same thing and there was nothing stopping you or other people from going through the process except for the fact that they did not want to bother.
The only console left that has any worth from crafting after this that can't be gotten in other ways in the +x% max shield. All of the rest of the items that had any value from the crafting have been added to the SB holdings and made worthless.
This change only helps me though since i NEVER considered the +30% consoles worth the price and normally ran with 26 or at most 28% ones. Now I can increase all my dmg output for a trivial cost.
Your supplier comarison is also not that great. I would equate the fleet holding to a government stepping in and deciding to sell the item you have been producing instead. You can't compete against something that takes no time and has no costs but unlimited production. If the supply of consoles had been higher then the cost would have been lower, now the supply of better consoles is unlimited so the price will plumet.
I don't expect to see more then 1-2 +30% consoles on the exchange a couple of weeks after fleets cap the Spire holding. Almost none of the people currently crafting them will bother continueing to do so so the supply with drop to even lower levels then now. Main source in the future is likely to be the doff packs during a promotion, although this is likely to drop the interest in those as well.
You mean like the puprle mk xii Neutroniums are worthless vendor trash now?
Doesn't matter.
And calling others Trolls wont help (you).
You should better watch for a new source of income as the first Spire holdings will be open to the public in Service Channels in a few weeks (i for my part have opened the doors of my T3 Trade/Development KDF mine a few weeks ago in addition to my Suliban Cell Ship and enjoy to provide *free* invites to the public, i hope i can do the same for consoles, but for a solo fleet the dilithium costs of the spire are a bit steep).
And to one of the others... don't tell me how haaaard it is to get console crafting DOFFs and items (really? the buying price of those ressources are a joke, it was a license to print money) i have several chars with ~80 purple DOFFs each (i usually keep the blues from the questchains for nostalgic reasons) just from doing a few DOFF exchange missions per week, i don't know how many console crafting DOFFs i have generated that way in the last 9 Months, but it was enough to fund a small fleet of [EDIT] Lockbox Ships (granted: i generated legions of bio- and geologists too, those usually went to the mine).
They see people with purple 12s and figure their e-junk isn't big enough, and run out to find purple 12s for themselves. Or so they can play top difficulty stuff on the elite difficulty setting. I've never touched my difficulty slider, so don't entirely see that great a point to it. I've run an alt entirely on stuff available as mission rewards from a FE series. (well, main equipment-wise, needed to get consoles) But again, normal difficulty, so not relevant to PVP or elite difficulty settings.
Still, I am sure there will be lone wolves who do not like fleets, and thus will still buy the old mark XIIs.
That, and people who are in fleets not active enough to get their starbases updated to get fleet elite equipment in anything resembling a reasonable time. Like mine, with me semi-active and one other semi-active. Reputation equipment and old XII's will be the order of the day for a long time.
Public Service and NOP Public Service channels takes care of slow leveling fleets. Infact all you need to do is get the holding opened and then it is just provisions and you can get anything and everything. For T5 fleet ships, Get some EC built up and buy the right to buy one. I bought 2 T5 fleet ships while my fleet only has T4 that way.
The old consoles will be placeholders for fleets and for solo no fleet players.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Our fleet still has a tier 0 starbase, with military getting /maybe/ close to T1.
The prices were a tad out of control, but they are for several things, certain types of doffs, some ships, so on, so forth. odds are this will inflate some of those prices more.
the real problem here is that these new consoles went from being as good as, though a different flavor, to being far better then MKXII ones. which is the whole power creep thing.
If they were only better with the right doffs, weapons, and set up, an in general inline with the MKXII ones outside of specific builds, then it wouldn't be such a huge thing, still not healthy since it would lead to one build rules them all, but far less damaging that just outright displacing the current top end consoles.
I never liked buying more then MK XI my self due to price, and how little the extra performance was, so I get why people wanted the price down, though I still think they are stuck on having to have the absolute best. But I got why they were so expensive, it was the rarity. though part of that's people playing the AH and keeping prices high.
But all of that should take a back seat to the issue of creeping power, in this case its a bit less of a creep, and more of a hop, and that fact that this could well mean that the game gets yet more dps orientated.
Why is power creep considered a bad thing at all? Elite powergamers should be happy that they can juice out an extra 3-5% efficiency, and noobs should be happy because it will help them do at least something right.
it throws the already out of whack pvp even more out of whack.
It makes nothing but damage done and dps matter in the case of dps creep, it removes the need for some cpatian types, powers.
you can also argue that it cheapens the gaming experience by removing any real challenge at all, and focusing it all on how much damage you can go. but you can "gear down" to get around that.
the biggest thing it does is slant teams game play, not pvp, towards whatever the creep is, or which every is largest. Like right now its slanted towards tac captains, in escorts, with 5 tac console slots, or the rommy dread, using DHC's. Why, because any other ship, captain, or set up you could use in pve right now would be sub par, it would work, but youd be done faster with just another tac cap in a ship tweaked out for max dps.
there is no need for tactics, no need for trinity, healers, tanks, when all targets can be melted before they become a problem. lump in that most stfs have time constraints, and you compound people wanting to be done fast, with a need to be fast.
in essence power creep pigeon holes much of the game play into one super effective type, and can make a lot of game play very trivial, unchallenging, unrewarding, and remove any need to aspire to more.
remember its not creep when game play also evolves to be harder, that's natural progression, but this is not that.
I get that people want to be done with things they have done 1000 times before as quickly as possible, but cheapen the experience, or trivialize it too much, and well, why play.
So it unbalances pvp? Now that seems like a more valid concern , though honestly I dont pvp at all.
They could fix that by simply reducing the effectiveness of certain things to players, like what they did with the breen ICE pulsewave.
that's one sentence in all that, the rest of it applies to pve
I don't use pvp to validate arguments currently since well its borked, out of balance already, im just pointing out that on top of all the things it does to pve, it also push's that more out of whack.
There is a lot more defense creep than damage creep in pvp
Its extremely rare to get nailed out 1v1 vs anything in short order. Only a dedicated vaper can do that, and not every time.
In premade matches it takes a full 3-4 man focus fire to pound down even a squishy who is being crosshealed ad nauseum
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yhea but this still throws it even more out of joint, but pvp has been off balance for, well always.
even at launch it was out of whack, with sci locking everyone down for 45-60 secs at a time. then came the KDF carrier spam, the real deal, with clouds of pets, then perfect shield and hull res engis, and so on.
pvp is going to need to go through a serious hammering out, stuff like this just makes it worse, but oh well.
and on the pve side, well that was already easy, this just makes it more of a joke
Actually, those were the times when Sci was useful in Pve.
It was not the tac power creep that did Sci in, it was the big pvp nerfbat they got hit with.
I never said nor implied that sci was done in by anything other then being massively over powered at release, which it was, they went over board, but it needed a nerf at release.
You chose to say that I implied tac had anything to do with it, which I didn't.
I keep reading about how XII equipment is just about ego, but actually it's about not being useless in STFs and causing optionals to fail.
Certainly, optimization can help to a point. However, when adding up all the small percentage improvements one can get to the point where there is a considerable difference in effectiveness.
The high EC Exchange console problem could have been dealt with differently, along with the problem crafters have of getting a good console so rarely. The crafting mission could have been less demanding in terms of the DOFFs needed and the chance of not getting green. In fact, green consoles could have been eliminated altogether from the job. The result would be a lot more blue and purple consoles and thus lower prices due to higher supply. More people could craft if the DOFF requirements weren't so steep, including silver players who haven't spent Zen to increase the EC cap. The NADORC mission could have a shorter cooldown, too.
People thumb their noses at the crafters, but it does take quite a bit of time/EC/effort to get decent consoles. I spent about 10 million buying resolve doffs with one extra trait (like stubborn) and I crafted six consoles before I gave up. Of those I got one purple console and it wasn't worth much at all. Crafting in STO is broken because it costs more to craft than one can get from selling the crafted stuff. The fleet gear makes the problem worse.