You really are not understanding how fossilization works, or how nature can degrade and ruin our modern marvels.
Just to point out though: feathers and scales from that long ago have never been preserved. We only know they existed because of imprints in rock and from fossilized bones. And the bits of bone themselves are pretty much stone-like as a result of the fossilization process.
I do understand how it works because fossile EVIDENCE points to Troodon being the smarter dinosaur vs a hadrosaur. It also demonstrates that NEITHER of them could have had limbs which could manipulate high technology within the confines of their time on earth. Furthermore, what you're disregarding are aspects of technology which are not bio-degradable.
And to the people saying, "Oh but how did dinosaurs go into space? Derp derp."
Guys, the Voth were already humanoid dinosaurian lifeforms by the time they escaped Earth. They were not literally still animal-shaped dinosaurs. They already had thumbs and stood on two legs and were basically people.
There is no evidence to suggest any of that is even plausible. Why? Because it's not real. Keep feeding yourself this type of suspension of disbelief if you like. Meanwhile, I'll just lmao at it.
Why does a race have to follow our path of technological progress? Biotechnology is just as good as our technology and it has the added benefit of being eco-friendly. Of course by biotechnology, I mean growing buildings and technology not dangerous bacteria. We can even create bio-degradable plastics. After all, due to our mass-consumerism lifestyle, bio-degradable plastics are the future.
If a bunch of archaeologists from thousands of years in the future were to try to piece our civilization together, then it would go to just the 21st Century and stop with them having no way of knowing what happened. Also, there is the simple fact that cities are just not made to last anymore. Concrete, Drywall, Wood, and Steel are just not good materials for long-term durability.
The difference between Humans and the (made up) Voth species is that at least our ancestors show a progression towards using the limbs of our upper thorax as a means to manipulate and build complex things. Dinosaurs could carry an egg AT BEST, and that's only certain ones.
There is no evidence to suggest any of that is even plausible. Why? Because it's not real. Keep feeding yourself this type of suspension of disbelief if you like. Meanwhile, I'll just lmao at it.
Star Trek is Science Fiction so it doesn't have to be plausible or require evidence. If the writers of Star Trek say that there was a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago in the Star Trek universe, then there was a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago in the Star Trek universe. It is not our universe, so they can do whatever they want and the multiple worlds theory is perfectly fine with one universe having us and a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago while another universe has just us. Teleporters were just created so that the creators of Star Trek could save a bunch of money by not requiring to do shuttle launches. So plausibility doesn't mean much as far as Star Trek is concerned.
@kain You are entitled to /lol at it, but you are not entitled to attack other people for it.
It is true. All of Star Trek is made up, conjured by the minds of people with little to no background in Science and Engineering. For most parts, it was consistent and had some semblance to plausbility. Some times it was even epic; those were the moments that made us sit up and watch, and remember all these years. There were also errors that we fans bang our heads against and have to tweak and test the details until we come to an answer.
That answer was never going to be canon btw, but it would be accepted by enough people to be considered consistent.
Sadly, as the show ground on, more and more things were taken for granted, leading to greater and greater inaccuracies or just outright sacrificing the "IP" to whatever the lead producer thought was a good idea.
Voyager suffered a lot not just about consistency but also conflicts within the production crew. It led to so much inconsistency I didn't even last a season. And because I had written off Star Trek at that point, I didn't even touch Enterprise, which I hear was even worse off.
No surprise then that the Voth was unfortunate enough to appear in Voyager. Thanks to Memory Alpha, I've been reading up on what I missed, and I am glad I didn't watch all that junk. Amongst those articles were the Voth, and I thought it was an intriguing idea. Seeing the Voth come here was a disappointment to me not because they were dinosaurs on 2 feet, but they were just another race attempting to steamroll us. "When was the last time a new species we met wasn't trying to kill us?"
(Not to mention all factions are full of captains who Do Not Believe In A No Win Scenario, and then some who melt whole Borg instances in 120s. That's a hell lot of famous (and brutal) starships, and you want to come in guns blazing? Well, I'm not locked in the Dyson Sphere with you. You're locked up in the sphere with me.)
I think the "hate" for the Voth was simply because of 2 things:
1) The relative obscurity of the Voth in canon
2) Bran posted a very honest comment about Dstahl, "I want dinosaurs with frikkin' lasers on their heads."
Taken together, a person not as well-versed with Treknology would have thought they just ported some lizard invaders from CO to STO.
This is further compounded by the hate from those who knew about the Voth and didn't want them involved because they were a piece of bad production.
And then there are those who hate the Voth because they are being brought in in a very 80s manner over their own cool ideas they have been trumpeting all along and consider themselves ignored.
I'm sure I could fit PVPers wanting a pvp update in here somewhere, but I couldn't think of a better way than to say "well, pandas."
Of course, not forgetting those with an axe to grind against Cryptic.
And lastly, the bandwagoners who simply follow the crowd, since its so in to be hating stuff.
But pvpers, cool-idea-trumpeters, haters, whingers, bandwagonners have been since the beginning, so the only reason the Voth have more hate than any other update is because they have 2 extra factors working against it. And Cryptic PR really picked the wrong time to foul up.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Star Trek is Science Fiction so it doesn't have to be plausible or require evidence. If the writers of Star Trek say that there was a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago in the Star Trek universe, then there was a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago in the Star Trek universe. It is not our universe, so they can do whatever they want and the multiple worlds theory is perfectly fine with one universe having us and a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago while another universe has just us. Teleporters were just created so that the creators of Star Trek could save a bunch of money by not requiring to do shuttle launches. So plausibility doesn't mean much as far as Star Trek is concerned.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually looking forward to checking out this whole Dinoriders-Star Trek crossover. At the same time, I just think the whole concept behind the Voth is waaaay too outlandish to accept as plausible or cool. I'm basically ignoring that in order to look forward to Season 8.
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually looking forward to checking out this whole Dinoriders-Star Trek crossover. At the same time, I just think the whole concept behind the Voth is waaaay too outlandish to accept as plausible or cool. I'm basically ignoring that in order to look forward to Season 8.
Personally, the Voth are just another opponent. I will be hoping there is a trophy for killing a 1000 Voth and proudly display it if it is cool and do the Voth reputation to get the equipment, but that is the extent of my enthusiasm for them. To me, Season 8 is all about the Dyson Sphere and another Fleet Holding to worry about. Not many games have a Dyson Sphere and even fewer let us fight within a Dyson Sphere. It could be really epic or it could be a complete failure. Voth on the other hand is just meh compared to the Dyson Sphere.
The only thing about the voth i dont get it why they fly 100k ly to the delta quadrant to find a new home just because a meteor hits earth when there are thousands if nice class M planets much closer around.
The only thing about the voth i dont get it why they fly 100k ly to the delta quadrant to find a new home just because a meteor hits earth when there are thousands if nice class M planets much closer around.
who said they picked to go there? dont think any one asked Amelia Earhart if she wanted to go
The only thing about the voth i dont get it why they fly 100k ly to the delta quadrant to find a new home just because a meteor hits earth when there are thousands if nice class M planets much closer around.
We have no idea of the political climate of that time in the Alpha Quadrant. It would make sense for them to travel to the closest possible habitable planet, but there could have been interstellar empires that forced them into the Delta Quadrant. Or the more likely solution is that the meteorite scared them too much so that living on a planet would force them to relieve that fear. By the time they were ready to settle down, they ended up in the Delta Quadrant.
I do understand how it works because fossile EVIDENCE points to Troodon being the smarter dinosaur vs a hadrosaur. It also demonstrates that NEITHER of them could have had limbs which could manipulate high technology within the confines of their time on earth. Furthermore, what you're disregarding are aspects of technology which are not bio-degradable.
Seriously, people watch this. I chose this documentary since it's frankly the simplest way to explain the science. It very much explains that if we just plain ceased to exist right now, in just a few hundred years, all of our cities will have pretty much rusted away into dust. Steel, concrete, all of it; it does not last.
And in tens of millions of years? There'd be no trace of us at all. Time and nature claim everything; it's called entropy.
And in tens of millions of years? There'd be no trace of us at all. Time and nature claim everything; it's called entropy.
There would be some traces like certain rods of pure metal that can't be found in nature, certain man-made isotopes that have a long enough half-life, and other irregularities. However, that stuff will be pushed far below the ground that it will be up to luck if any of that stuff is found again. Although, the biggest evidence that a civilization was here is on the moon, but even still meteors can get rid of stuff on the Moon over millions of years.
we cant barely find thousand year old roads barelist 65 million year old roads even the great pyramids will one day be dust one day Titanic will one day dust or in its case went dirt with out something to maintain it mother nature will take over and she always wins
i loved Voy more so then other star trek series and loved the distance origins it combine two of my favorite things star trek and dinosaurs
Same here, Voyager was my favorite of all the ST TV series....with DS9 coming in last and ST Enterprise coming in at ST Enterprise huh? what is that? (which is right behind DS9). But just cause it's my favorite, that doesnt mean i memorize every little detail. I remember Talaxians, Ocampa, Maj Kullahs funny haired race, Vidians, the race that Chakotay almost blew up in the sleeping cave, the Red Foreman time changing race and of course the Borg.
We can even create bio-degradable plastics. After all, due to our mass-consumerism lifestyle, bio-degradable plastics are the future.
Concrete, Drywall, Wood, and Steel are just not good materials for long-term durability.
Here is the fun part ....
The Voth probably didn't have Plastics .... why not, you may ask ? ... because guess what Plastic is made of ... dinosaurs & plants who died millions of years ago :P
Concrete, Drywall, Wood, and Steel are just not good materials for long-term durability.
Yes, thats why the Great Wall of China, Pyramids of Giza would probably still be the last things surviving Humanity or any other structure made out of natural stone .... metals & concrete -> dream on ...
btw :
- Plastic only lasts for ~250 years poisoning the soil for the next ~250 years, if in the right condition = sunlight, water it could break down after just 1 year (not 65 Million years)
- and even most of our Nuclear Waste would be gone after 20,000 - 20 Million years ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Thutmosis, 65 million years ago there had still been life on this planet for about three billion years or so. Did none of it become oil?
Heck, the so-called "Age of the Dinosaurs", meaning those periods when the clade Dinosauria could be found on Earth, started some 176 million years before the K-T Event that ended their reign. Surely some of the earlier dinosaurs must have died in conditions that would have led to their becoming oil over a hundred million years...
Scale, people. Scale. The unbelievable part is that the Voth would still be recognizable as Dinosauria after separating from the Terran evolutionary tree sixty-five million years ago. I doubt strongly that there will be anything even vaguely resembling humans sixty-five million years from now.
Thutmosis, 65 million years ago there had still been life on this planet for about three billion years or so. Did none of it become oil?
Heck, the so-called "Age of the Dinosaurs", meaning those periods when the clade Dinosauria could be found on Earth, started some 176 million years before the K-T Event that ended their reign. Surely some of the earlier dinosaurs must have died in conditions that would have led to their becoming oil over a hundred million years...
Well we simply don't know ... there might have been some ... considering plant life ... there was pretty much only algae & moss before the dinosaurs
Most of our oil is from 150 Million years ago so there are no "earlier" dinosaurs ... "Voth Oil" should have been from ~300 Million years ago (Devonian Period = Fish, Scorpions, early Amphibians, algae & moss)
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Honestly, I'm gonna keep posting that documentary until someone watches it and stops bringing up "but we would find their ruins!"
No we wouldn't.
That was very interesting. Thanks for the link. Yet I do not concur. Just as we find traces of prehistoric life, we will find traces of prehistoric intelligent life.
The documentary has also some flaws. House cats that will live in the remnants of sky crappers might evolve an abillity to glyde through air. That is a mighty long proces for a couple of thousands of years, yet large structures will be demolished and struck down by the force of nature in a couple of hundred years or even faster. I see a paradox.
According to the Voyager episode the Voth, a prehistoric but inteligent life form could have lived on an isolated continent that may have disappeared into the ocean. The question is didn't they explore the world, make settlements, spread out etc. just as that next intelligent lifeform, humans, did?
Honestly, I'm gonna keep posting that documentary until someone watches it and stops bringing up "but we would find their ruins!"
No we wouldn't.
Saw that when it was released, good show for fun but factualy garbage.
We are finding 100k year old mud bricks and charcoal from a campfire today. imagine the remains of a computer considering after 2 seasons the campfire will not be noticeable and the computer would just be dirty if in the open. concrete and steel? left in the open for the 100 years the show talks about yes there will be rot, but think.. mud bricks have lasted thousands upon thousands of years and they are made from mud and grass, throw water on them and they rot away to a pile of mud with grass stems embedded. steel reinforced concrete even if the steel rusted away would be quite obvious for what it is simply by the composition of the material.
If we humans with minimal space capabilities today just blinked out of exhistance and 65 million years later some other species with atleast 5 archeology teams investigated earth they will discover and know we existed. give them a year and they will make jokes about how ignorant we are.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Well i am looking forward to the Voth commin, i for one loved the premise of the episode and find it plausible that evolution could have choosen a dinosaur for a greater fate, after watching "Distant Origin" i always imagined what it would be like if the Voth Doctrine was changed and they decided to take Earth back for the Voth people, how would we stop them? could we? hopefully we get some good missions with them.
ya that whole 75 thousand light years from any help from any thing starfleet or Federation to rely on ones ship and crew to do your best to get your crew home what you didnt get any of that?
Funny really how many would use greek god episode as the mist ridiculous one but consider how we as beabderthals would see us in todays advancements? Or what would crew of Enterprise see people who have evolved biologically and technologically couple thousand years more than us? Hmm?
Comments
There is no evidence to suggest any of that is even plausible. Why? Because it's not real. Keep feeding yourself this type of suspension of disbelief if you like. Meanwhile, I'll just lmao at it.
system Lord Baal is dead
Star Trek is Science Fiction so it doesn't have to be plausible or require evidence. If the writers of Star Trek say that there was a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago in the Star Trek universe, then there was a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago in the Star Trek universe. It is not our universe, so they can do whatever they want and the multiple worlds theory is perfectly fine with one universe having us and a bunch of humanoid dinosaurs 65 million years ago while another universe has just us. Teleporters were just created so that the creators of Star Trek could save a bunch of money by not requiring to do shuttle launches. So plausibility doesn't mean much as far as Star Trek is concerned.
It is true. All of Star Trek is made up, conjured by the minds of people with little to no background in Science and Engineering. For most parts, it was consistent and had some semblance to plausbility. Some times it was even epic; those were the moments that made us sit up and watch, and remember all these years. There were also errors that we fans bang our heads against and have to tweak and test the details until we come to an answer.
That answer was never going to be canon btw, but it would be accepted by enough people to be considered consistent.
Sadly, as the show ground on, more and more things were taken for granted, leading to greater and greater inaccuracies or just outright sacrificing the "IP" to whatever the lead producer thought was a good idea.
Voyager suffered a lot not just about consistency but also conflicts within the production crew. It led to so much inconsistency I didn't even last a season. And because I had written off Star Trek at that point, I didn't even touch Enterprise, which I hear was even worse off.
No surprise then that the Voth was unfortunate enough to appear in Voyager. Thanks to Memory Alpha, I've been reading up on what I missed, and I am glad I didn't watch all that junk. Amongst those articles were the Voth, and I thought it was an intriguing idea. Seeing the Voth come here was a disappointment to me not because they were dinosaurs on 2 feet, but they were just another race attempting to steamroll us. "When was the last time a new species we met wasn't trying to kill us?"
(Not to mention all factions are full of captains who Do Not Believe In A No Win Scenario, and then some who melt whole Borg instances in 120s. That's a hell lot of famous (and brutal) starships, and you want to come in guns blazing? Well, I'm not locked in the Dyson Sphere with you. You're locked up in the sphere with me.)
I think the "hate" for the Voth was simply because of 2 things:
1) The relative obscurity of the Voth in canon
2) Bran posted a very honest comment about Dstahl, "I want dinosaurs with frikkin' lasers on their heads."
Taken together, a person not as well-versed with Treknology would have thought they just ported some lizard invaders from CO to STO.
This is further compounded by the hate from those who knew about the Voth and didn't want them involved because they were a piece of bad production.
And then there are those who hate the Voth because they are being brought in in a very 80s manner over their own cool ideas they have been trumpeting all along and consider themselves ignored.
I'm sure I could fit PVPers wanting a pvp update in here somewhere, but I couldn't think of a better way than to say "well, pandas."
Of course, not forgetting those with an axe to grind against Cryptic.
And lastly, the bandwagoners who simply follow the crowd, since its so in to be hating stuff.
But pvpers, cool-idea-trumpeters, haters, whingers, bandwagonners have been since the beginning, so the only reason the Voth have more hate than any other update is because they have 2 extra factors working against it. And Cryptic PR really picked the wrong time to foul up.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Personally, the Voth are just another opponent. I will be hoping there is a trophy for killing a 1000 Voth and proudly display it if it is cool and do the Voth reputation to get the equipment, but that is the extent of my enthusiasm for them. To me, Season 8 is all about the Dyson Sphere and another Fleet Holding to worry about. Not many games have a Dyson Sphere and even fewer let us fight within a Dyson Sphere. It could be really epic or it could be a complete failure. Voth on the other hand is just meh compared to the Dyson Sphere.
who said they picked to go there? dont think any one asked Amelia Earhart if she wanted to go
system Lord Baal is dead
We have no idea of the political climate of that time in the Alpha Quadrant. It would make sense for them to travel to the closest possible habitable planet, but there could have been interstellar empires that forced them into the Delta Quadrant. Or the more likely solution is that the meteorite scared them too much so that living on a planet would force them to relieve that fear. By the time they were ready to settle down, they ended up in the Delta Quadrant.
Think again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDbcMND7fY
Seriously, people watch this. I chose this documentary since it's frankly the simplest way to explain the science. It very much explains that if we just plain ceased to exist right now, in just a few hundred years, all of our cities will have pretty much rusted away into dust. Steel, concrete, all of it; it does not last.
And in tens of millions of years? There'd be no trace of us at all. Time and nature claim everything; it's called entropy.
There would be some traces like certain rods of pure metal that can't be found in nature, certain man-made isotopes that have a long enough half-life, and other irregularities. However, that stuff will be pushed far below the ground that it will be up to luck if any of that stuff is found again. Although, the biggest evidence that a civilization was here is on the moon, but even still meteors can get rid of stuff on the Moon over millions of years.
system Lord Baal is dead
Same here, Voyager was my favorite of all the ST TV series....with DS9 coming in last and ST Enterprise coming in at ST Enterprise huh? what is that? (which is right behind DS9). But just cause it's my favorite, that doesnt mean i memorize every little detail. I remember Talaxians, Ocampa, Maj Kullahs funny haired race, Vidians, the race that Chakotay almost blew up in the sleeping cave, the Red Foreman time changing race and of course the Borg.
Here is the fun part ....
The Voth probably didn't have Plastics .... why not, you may ask ? ... because guess what Plastic is made of ... dinosaurs & plants who died millions of years ago :P
Yes, thats why the Great Wall of China, Pyramids of Giza would probably still be the last things surviving Humanity or any other structure made out of natural stone .... metals & concrete -> dream on ...
btw :
- Plastic only lasts for ~250 years poisoning the soil for the next ~250 years, if in the right condition = sunlight, water it could break down after just 1 year (not 65 Million years)
- and even most of our Nuclear Waste would be gone after 20,000 - 20 Million years ...
Heck, the so-called "Age of the Dinosaurs", meaning those periods when the clade Dinosauria could be found on Earth, started some 176 million years before the K-T Event that ended their reign. Surely some of the earlier dinosaurs must have died in conditions that would have led to their becoming oil over a hundred million years...
Scale, people. Scale. The unbelievable part is that the Voth would still be recognizable as Dinosauria after separating from the Terran evolutionary tree sixty-five million years ago. I doubt strongly that there will be anything even vaguely resembling humans sixty-five million years from now.
Well we simply don't know ... there might have been some ... considering plant life ... there was pretty much only algae & moss before the dinosaurs
Most of our oil is from 150 Million years ago so there are no "earlier" dinosaurs ... "Voth Oil" should have been from ~300 Million years ago (Devonian Period = Fish, Scorpions, early Amphibians, algae & moss)
see if this one works and my bad i had no idea
system Lord Baal is dead
That was very interesting. Thanks for the link. Yet I do not concur. Just as we find traces of prehistoric life, we will find traces of prehistoric intelligent life.
The documentary has also some flaws. House cats that will live in the remnants of sky crappers might evolve an abillity to glyde through air. That is a mighty long proces for a couple of thousands of years, yet large structures will be demolished and struck down by the force of nature in a couple of hundred years or even faster. I see a paradox.
According to the Voyager episode the Voth, a prehistoric but inteligent life form could have lived on an isolated continent that may have disappeared into the ocean. The question is didn't they explore the world, make settlements, spread out etc. just as that next intelligent lifeform, humans, did?
Saw that when it was released, good show for fun but factualy garbage.
We are finding 100k year old mud bricks and charcoal from a campfire today. imagine the remains of a computer considering after 2 seasons the campfire will not be noticeable and the computer would just be dirty if in the open. concrete and steel? left in the open for the 100 years the show talks about yes there will be rot, but think.. mud bricks have lasted thousands upon thousands of years and they are made from mud and grass, throw water on them and they rot away to a pile of mud with grass stems embedded. steel reinforced concrete even if the steel rusted away would be quite obvious for what it is simply by the composition of the material.
If we humans with minimal space capabilities today just blinked out of exhistance and 65 million years later some other species with atleast 5 archeology teams investigated earth they will discover and know we existed. give them a year and they will make jokes about how ignorant we are.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Ohohohohoooo no!
Can't get started on Voyager until I'm done with DS9!
Still have 2.5 seasons to go.
Now we're getting Voth? How...Why...What did I miss?
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
I like this.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
give them time sure we will see the Krenim it just want be as soon as you thought
system Lord Baal is dead
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]