And what happened to the fossils? There are fossils of T-rex, Velociraptor, you name it, but not of the Voth.
Because:
A) Whatever the Voth were when they left Earth, they aren't that now. That was millions of years ago. While the advent of advanced technologies can slow the evolutionary processes some, it can't stop it completely over the course of millions of years. We may have found tiny traces of the proto-Voth species and not realized what it was, and simply lumped it in with whatever saurian species they most resembled at the time. In case you didn't know, archaeology isn't usually full of complete skeleton finds. Usually, it's just a few bones, or fragments of bones, and imprints in the rock. And they may have been a culture that disposes of the remains of their dead, rather than burying them (though we don't know that for sure).
C) They left Earth in a point in the past so distant that it is feasible that every trace of their civilization was destroyed through the passage of time.
One thing to keep in mind regarding fossils. . .the chances of a bone fossil forming from a dead animal are actually quite low. A specific set of circumstances has to occur for fossilization to happen. The most important, I think, is that the corpse needs to be buried in an anaerobic environment so that the initial remains aren't subject to erosion, corruption, and decay. Meaning a swamp, a lake-bed, w/e. That's why sites of old lake-beds and swamps are good places to find fossils.
Then the fossil needs to survive however many millions of years before 'discovery'. Millions of years of erosion, tectonic activity, etc.
If the odds weren't so low, we would be finding way more remains of animals like dinosaurs, etc. As it is, we might have maybe the equivalent of 1500-2000 'complete' fossils of dinosaurs (we don't have a complete T-Rex skeleton, for example, but we have 15 partials). This is after 100+ years of searching for dinosaur fossils and other fossils. There were likely millions of dinosaurs stomping around back then.
One thing to keep in mind regarding fossils. . .the chances of a bone fossil forming from a dead animal are actually quite low. A specific set of circumstances has to occur for fossilization to happen. The most important, I think, is that the corpse needs to be buried in an anaerobic environment so that the initial remains aren't subject to erosion, corruption, and decay. Meaning a swamp, a lake-bed, w/e. That's why sites of old lake-beds and swamps are good places to find fossils.
Then the fossil needs to survive however many millions of years before 'discovery'. Millions of years of erosion, tectonic activity, etc.
If the odds weren't so low, we would be finding way more remains of animals like dinosaurs, etc. As it is, we might have maybe the equivalent of 1500-2000 'complete' fossils of dinosaurs (we don't have a complete T-Rex skeleton, for example, but we have 15 partials). This is after 100+ years of searching for dinosaur fossils and other fossils. There were likely millions of dinosaurs stomping around back then.
Well, WE live with these limitations.
Would that same apply to the paleontologists of the future?
They'd have far more sophisticated technology to find those remains.
Well, WE live with these limitations.
Would that same apply to the paleontologists of the future?
They'd have far more sophisticated technology to find those remains.
Yes because there are probably lots of Dinosaurs/Animals who never left any fossils ....
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I just found the distance theory really stupid. Dinosaurs in space is not something that requires explanation. Dinosaurs in space. Come on. That's all you need to know.
Exactly, needs no explanation, it's just cool by default..... Dinosaurs on a spaceship!
Because:
A) Whatever the Voth were when they left Earth, they aren't that now. That was millions of years ago. While the advent of advanced technologies can slow the evolutionary processes some, it can't stop it completely over the course of millions of years. We may have found tiny traces of the proto-Voth species and not realized what it was, and simply lumped it in with whatever saurian species they most resembled at the time. In case you didn't know, archaeology isn't usually full of complete skeleton finds. Usually, it's just a few bones, or fragments of bones, and imprints in the rock. And they may have been a culture that disposes of the remains of their dead, rather than burying them (though we don't know that for sure).
C) They left Earth in a point in the past so distant that it is feasible that every trace of their civilization was destroyed through the passage of time.
Regarding point C: Assuming, technologically, the proto-Voth were maybe a little more advanced than the human race. . .yeah, there's no chance anything would be left of the civilization. It would only take a few thousand years of unchecked erosion and decay to erase all man-made structures and whatnot. The longest thing of humankind that would last would be our large-scale alterations of the Earth's surface. Things like paths carved through hills and mountains making way for roads, mountaintops with the tops removed and subjected to resource extraction, and so on. It would take some time for natural erosion and tectonic process to erase all of that, but it would certainly be gone 60 million years from now. Though I suppose radioactive waste and certain erosion-resistant materials like plastic would last a considerable while.
Depending on the population of the proto-Voth civilization, it's highly unlikely we'd even find proto-Voth fossils. There were millions of dinosaurs likely walking the Earth 65 million years ago, and we've only managed to find, again, 1500-2000 skeletal fossils, not all of them complete.
And what happened to the fossils? There are fossils of T-rex, Velociraptor, you name it, but not of the Voth.
Fossilization only happens in certain circumstances and conditions..... the vast majority of stuff decays long before fossilization can occur..... or in short, the fossil record is by no means a complete image of everything that once lived.
I liked the Krenim, they had a nice arc with them, "Year of Hell", so putting them in-game would be awesome IMO.
Yea the Year of Hell was awesome, I remember back around launch of this game people wanting a Year of Hell battle damaged Intrepid skin.
I also liked the Vidiians, the way they clamp on to your ship and cut through the hull... and then "Harvest" your crew..... like something out of a scifi horror movie. (And yes I remember the Think Tank episode saying they had been cured).
I'm not against them being in the game, just saying, I found that episode kinda boring. As with every change made to the game Cryptic/PWE can't make everyone happy... and its not my turn to be happy.
I'm not against them being in the game, just saying, I found that episode kinda boring. As with every change made to the game Cryptic/PWE can't make everyone happy... and its not my turn to be happy.
Regarding point C: Assuming, technologically, the proto-Voth were maybe a little more advanced than the human race. . .yeah, there's no chance anything would be left of the civilization. It would only take a few thousand years of unchecked erosion and decay to erase all man-made structures and whatnot. The longest thing of humankind that would last would be our large-scale alterations of the Earth's surface. Things like paths carved through hills and mountains making way for roads, mountaintops with the tops removed and subjected to resource extraction, and so on. It would take some time for natural erosion and tectonic process to erase all of that, but it would certainly be gone 60 million years from now. Though I suppose radioactive waste and certain erosion-resistant materials like plastic would last a considerable while.
Depending on the population of the proto-Voth civilization, it's highly unlikely we'd even find proto-Voth fossils. There were millions of dinosaurs likely walking the Earth 65 million years ago, and we've only managed to find, again, 1500-2000 skeletal fossils, not all of them complete.
Two problems, 1 if they advanced as far as spaceflight they most likely split the atom, as you said we would be able to detect some of the plutonium etc they produced (Pu-244 has a half life of 80 million years). 2 why is there no trace of them anywhere in the Alpha Quadrant? If they gained spaceflight and traveled all the way to the Delta Quadrant we would expect some trace of them on planets they might have visited between Earth and the Delta Quadrant. In our own solar system there should be items like spent rocket stages still in solar orbit, probes left on the lunar surface if they achieved any meaningful spaceflight.
I think the more reasonable explanation is that some alien race relocated them to the Delta Quadrant where they continued to evolve.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Does the episode also answer the question why archeologist haven't found any traces of the Voth and their civilization on earth. Even if their society was destroyed by anything, mega vulcano or a meteor, there must be something.
Or did they go without leaving any traces. Let's go, remove everything. Let them reinvent the wheel. Perhaps they fail and then we win. Now what, we are there, with a lot more than the wheel and we are going to kill them.
I think there some misunderstanding about time scales going on here. We've got a few hints, a trace here and there, of where there were civilized people up to about 10-15 THOUSAND years ago. We "know" that there were people before that, but no details. Since that time, the continents are in basically the same places and the only major climatic change was the formation of the Sahara desert.
The Voth, on the other hand, were around 60 MILLION years ago. Everything was different. Any trace that they were ever here would not only have crumbled to dust, but been subducted back into the mantle at least once. Their space stations would have crashed back to Earth a few decades or centuries after their departure. There would NOTHING left to show that the Voth ever existed. Hell, they've been gone so long, their COMPUTER records that show where they came from are unavailable. All they have are myths and dogmatic religion.
So no, there is nothing left. Time destroys everything.
I remember the doctrine, heritage from prehistoric earth and so on. Was it not the episode where those Voth lizards took Voyager inside their ship? They had all kind of superior technology and all that if memory serves.
Voyager and TNG was my favorite ones but still there is no much difference between series and movies, only thing i dont like are Abramstreks.
For anyone curious about Father Time and Mother Nature's effect on man made structures when there's no one around to maintain them, the documentary Life After People is a good examination of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDbcMND7fY
Sufficed to say, after about only a few hundred years, most of the Voth's buildings would have been completely gone. Stuff doesn't last.
I'd be amazed if everyone knew who the Nausicaan and Lethean were, in addition to the Tellarite and Pakled.
It's probably not helped by the fact that Tellarites, Pakleds and basically all the other Founding Members of the Federation aside from Humans and Vulcans barely appear throughout the TNG/DS9/VOY era.
Say what you will about ENT, it did make an effort to show some of the other founding races.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
It's called science FICTION not science reality. A fictional species is under no obligation to follow the same path of human evolution or scientific discovery. Stop nitpicking and get over it. :rolleyes:
I disagree when we are talking about star trk. the reason it was so good is because it was plausible science not yet realized hence the fiction.
im old enough to remember the days before automatic doors . so many thing we saw in trek became fact. and the science community are apparently fans as well.
1st space shuttle name was?
the name of what was a newly discovered particle that traveled faster than light?
and where were those names taken from?
as far as the voth they didn't say they left on their own or if they were transplanted so I don't really care they are cannon go for it. But littlefoot and chompers with lasers were never in the series and even if the voth did take pets with them over 65 plus million years would not the pets have evolved as well?
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
cryogenics come on ppl its trek think voth has tech to me way ahead any thing starfleet nothing with them to me is impossible may even possess something to De evolve them to there prehistoric self again trek any thing is possible
and even if the voth did take pets with them over 65 plus million years would not the pets have evolved as well?
It's not like every monkey-like creature evolved into Humans ... we still have monkeys ... Voth Creatures probably evolved as well ... some of them probably just kind of look like a T-Rex like Crocodiles just look like Crocodiles from hundreds of millions of years ago ...
Hate to break it to you but Evolution is not about progress, which necessarily results in Humanoids at the Top ... we're just another species like any other ...
Comments
Because:
A) Whatever the Voth were when they left Earth, they aren't that now. That was millions of years ago. While the advent of advanced technologies can slow the evolutionary processes some, it can't stop it completely over the course of millions of years. We may have found tiny traces of the proto-Voth species and not realized what it was, and simply lumped it in with whatever saurian species they most resembled at the time.
C) They left Earth in a point in the past so distant that it is feasible that every trace of their civilization was destroyed through the passage of time.
Then the fossil needs to survive however many millions of years before 'discovery'. Millions of years of erosion, tectonic activity, etc.
If the odds weren't so low, we would be finding way more remains of animals like dinosaurs, etc. As it is, we might have maybe the equivalent of 1500-2000 'complete' fossils of dinosaurs (we don't have a complete T-Rex skeleton, for example, but we have 15 partials). This is after 100+ years of searching for dinosaur fossils and other fossils. There were likely millions of dinosaurs stomping around back then.
Well, WE live with these limitations.
Would that same apply to the paleontologists of the future?
They'd have far more sophisticated technology to find those remains.
Yes because there are probably lots of Dinosaurs/Animals who never left any fossils ....
Including an entire space-faring civilisation...
Exactly, needs no explanation, it's just cool by default..... Dinosaurs on a spaceship!
Regarding point C: Assuming, technologically, the proto-Voth were maybe a little more advanced than the human race. . .yeah, there's no chance anything would be left of the civilization. It would only take a few thousand years of unchecked erosion and decay to erase all man-made structures and whatnot. The longest thing of humankind that would last would be our large-scale alterations of the Earth's surface. Things like paths carved through hills and mountains making way for roads, mountaintops with the tops removed and subjected to resource extraction, and so on. It would take some time for natural erosion and tectonic process to erase all of that, but it would certainly be gone 60 million years from now. Though I suppose radioactive waste and certain erosion-resistant materials like plastic would last a considerable while.
Depending on the population of the proto-Voth civilization, it's highly unlikely we'd even find proto-Voth fossils. There were millions of dinosaurs likely walking the Earth 65 million years ago, and we've only managed to find, again, 1500-2000 skeletal fossils, not all of them complete.
Yes, because space-faring people usually don't die, because they got stuck in some swamp ....
Fossilization only happens in certain circumstances and conditions..... the vast majority of stuff decays long before fossilization can occur..... or in short, the fossil record is by no means a complete image of everything that once lived.
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Stahl mentioned that he's figuring out ways to introduce the Krenim into STO's story line when it expands into the Delta Quadrant.
Yea it was 1 episode.... one of the slightly more boring ones too IMO :eek:
not you to!!!!!!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
Yea the Year of Hell was awesome, I remember back around launch of this game people wanting a Year of Hell battle damaged Intrepid skin.
I also liked the Vidiians, the way they clamp on to your ship and cut through the hull... and then "Harvest" your crew..... like something out of a scifi horror movie. (And yes I remember the Think Tank episode saying they had been cured).
I'm not against them being in the game, just saying, I found that episode kinda boring. As with every change made to the game Cryptic/PWE can't make everyone happy... and its not my turn to be happy.
have you tried watching it again? just saying
system Lord Baal is dead
She is in the Delta Quadrant.
:P
Two problems, 1 if they advanced as far as spaceflight they most likely split the atom, as you said we would be able to detect some of the plutonium etc they produced (Pu-244 has a half life of 80 million years). 2 why is there no trace of them anywhere in the Alpha Quadrant? If they gained spaceflight and traveled all the way to the Delta Quadrant we would expect some trace of them on planets they might have visited between Earth and the Delta Quadrant. In our own solar system there should be items like spent rocket stages still in solar orbit, probes left on the lunar surface if they achieved any meaningful spaceflight.
I think the more reasonable explanation is that some alien race relocated them to the Delta Quadrant where they continued to evolve.
I think there some misunderstanding about time scales going on here. We've got a few hints, a trace here and there, of where there were civilized people up to about 10-15 THOUSAND years ago. We "know" that there were people before that, but no details. Since that time, the continents are in basically the same places and the only major climatic change was the formation of the Sahara desert.
The Voth, on the other hand, were around 60 MILLION years ago. Everything was different. Any trace that they were ever here would not only have crumbled to dust, but been subducted back into the mantle at least once. Their space stations would have crashed back to Earth a few decades or centuries after their departure. There would NOTHING left to show that the Voth ever existed. Hell, they've been gone so long, their COMPUTER records that show where they came from are unavailable. All they have are myths and dogmatic religion.
So no, there is nothing left. Time destroys everything.
I watched Voyager even though it was very painful to do so. Worst of the Trek series.
Voyager and TNG was my favorite ones but still there is no much difference between series and movies, only thing i dont like are Abramstreks.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Season 8 is featuring These guys
Sufficed to say, after about only a few hundred years, most of the Voth's buildings would have been completely gone. Stuff doesn't last.
This sentence tells the absolute truth...
...of everything.
It's probably not helped by the fact that Tellarites, Pakleds and basically all the other Founding Members of the Federation aside from Humans and Vulcans barely appear throughout the TNG/DS9/VOY era.
Say what you will about ENT, it did make an effort to show some of the other founding races.
Vorik like to have a word with you same with tuvok
system Lord Baal is dead
I disagree when we are talking about star trk. the reason it was so good is because it was plausible science not yet realized hence the fiction.
im old enough to remember the days before automatic doors . so many thing we saw in trek became fact. and the science community are apparently fans as well.
1st space shuttle name was?
the name of what was a newly discovered particle that traveled faster than light?
and where were those names taken from?
as far as the voth they didn't say they left on their own or if they were transplanted so I don't really care they are cannon go for it. But littlefoot and chompers with lasers were never in the series and even if the voth did take pets with them over 65 plus million years would not the pets have evolved as well?
system Lord Baal is dead
It's not like every monkey-like creature evolved into Humans ... we still have monkeys ... Voth Creatures probably evolved as well ... some of them probably just kind of look like a T-Rex like Crocodiles just look like Crocodiles from hundreds of millions of years ago ...
Hate to break it to you but Evolution is not about progress, which necessarily results in Humanoids at the Top ... we're just another species like any other ...
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php