Base DPV of a DHC is 174. Base DPS is 116.
Base DPV of an Array is 100. Base DPS is 80.
DPV Ratio: 1.74:1 (DHCs do 174% the DPV)
DPS Ratio: 1.45:1 (DHCs do 145% the DPS)
Course, that only works if as long as you've got the same number and are ignoring drain. If we were going with 8 Arrays, we'd have to add in 4 Turrets...eh?
Base DPV of a Turret is 45. Base DPS is 60.
So if we add that up for 8 weapons...
Base DPV of 4x DHC/4x Turrets is 876. Base DPS is 704.
Base DPV of 8x Arrays is 800. Base DPS is 640.
DPV Ratio: 1.095:1 (Cannons do 109.5% the DPV)
DPS Ratio: 1.1:1 (Cannons do 110% the DPS)
Let's work some more stuff into that, eh? Let's give them 4x VR Mk XII Tac Consoles, give them 9 Weapon Training, 9 Energy Weapons, Omega Weapon Training. Let's make the weapons all VR Mk XII's. Let's give them 125 Aux for the T4 Nukara. Let's fake perm 125 Weapon Power. That's enough for now, eh?
New DHC DPV is 2,119.0 and DPS is 1,412.67 or so.
New Turret DPV is 547.7 and DPS is 730.27 or so.
New Array DPV is 1,217.1 and DPS is 973.68 or so.
New 4x DHC/4x Turret DPV is 10,666.8 and DPS is 8,571.76 or so.
New 8x Array DPV is 9,736.8 and DPS is 7789.44 or so.
DPV Ratio: 1.095:1 (Cannons do 109.5% the DPV)
DPS Ratio: 1.1:1 (Cannons do 110% the DPS)
No surprises there...that's how multiplicative benefits work. The ratio is maintained as those bonuses are added.
Let's work some more into that, eh? Let's do a Rombush, APA3 & APO3 (neither boosted by DOFF'd TT boosting SAP, I don't have the patience to work all that into it)...
New DHC DPV is 4238.0 and DPS is 2825.33 or so.
New Turret DPV is 1095.4 and DPS is 1460.53 or so.
New Array DPV is 2434.2 and DPS is 1947.36 or so.
New 4x DHC/4x Turret DPV is 21333.6 and DPS is 17143.44 or so.
New 8x Array DPV is 19473.6 and DPS is 15578.88 or so.
DPV Ratio: 1.095:1 (Cannons do 109.5% the DPV)
DPS Ratio: 1.1:1 (Cannons do 110% the DPS)
Yeah, cause all we did was multiply the previous DPV numbers by two...so yeah, the ratios are going to stay the same. We could crit it up, but again - the ratios would stay the same.
So how about working something in before the crits, eh? How about a little CSV3 vs. FAW3 action, eh? FAW3's about +38% damage per cycle. CSV3's about +25% damage per cycle. Course, cycle's don't match - buff durations are a curiosity given that as well (they fit better with the Array's x/5 than the Cannons x/3). Oh well...so knowing that...and just looking at a single cycle...
Surprise! Well, not really. Remember, that's a 3s cycle vs. 5s cycle. Say we fudge each out to 15s where they would normally meet (buffs don't last long enough to do that, so it's totally fudged)...
Cannon 321440 vs. Beam 322482.81 Damage. The DPS numbers would remain the same obviously, but you can see there the damage works out almost equal...
...at which point, you should be reaching for the Excedrin after the /wtf-facepalm you just did.
45 arc vs. 250 arc? WTF? Am I right? Well...you see...(and you probably already knew, but you /facepalmed so hard you might have forgotten for a moment)...Cannons and Beams have different firing cycles and drain mechanics. Those mechanics resulted in a semblance of balance as the Arrays would actually have less damage to balance out their wider arcs.
Folks could overcap Weapon Power to offset some of that drain, but it would cost them elsewhere. So even that was still somewhat balanced...
...but these days, well - we're oozing power out the wahzoo. We've got more drain resistance than you can shake a stick at.
So yep, you've got folks doing that Cannon damage with a 250 arc using Beams. Might be just below, just at, or even just above...funky, eh?
As an aside, some might say - hey, DEM favors cannons though! - and well, consider this...
Sure, you can go CRF to maintain the edge over a single target - but that requires dealing with that pesky 45 arc, actually having to target the target...when you could just FAW blindly!
So yeah...anyway...
Nice work virus.
Now on top of that, how many escorts even have 4 rear weapons?
How many can run 2x RSP at RSP at GCD?
How many can run 2x DEM or DEM at GCD?
How many can run 2x EPTx abilities with 0 gaps?
How many can run all of that, along with their tac powers of choice also at GCD?
Sure, you can go CRF to maintain the edge over a single target - but that requires dealing with that pesky 45 arc, actually having to target the target...when you could just FAW blindly
BFaW doesnt change the firing arc does it? So to get 8 on target you have to overlap, and you have to hold it for the duration of the fight to continue benefiting from it.
i made a post now a ton of pages back, showing i tinny bit of investigation of base dps from all the different weapons. what i found was that the combined base DPS from 8 beams was just a tad less then the combined DPS from 4 DHC and 3 turrets.
i found that a bit surprising, i though the gap would be bigger. also 4 singles and 4 turrets were quite noticeably less DPS then 8 beams were too.
i thought, you know maybe they should buff turrets, they are actually to much of a drag on front biased weapons vs beams.
one thing that needs to be pointed out VD, and if you took this into account and i just didn't notice then nevermind, is that CRF reduces DPV and increased number of shots. i dont think FAW does that, it just ads a 5th shot right? but thats another thing, FAW actually causes 1 beam array to fire 10 different shots per cycle, as long as there is more then 2 targets in range. thats how cruiser scoreboard damage numbers can be as high as all the escorts in the match combined. but, unlike with CRF, the shots are spread out, its not all focused on 1 target. only when FAW isnt in are beams able to do what CRF does for cannons. DHCs and BO also deal spike, not just withering DPS, and i still find it harder to counter spike then FAW/DEM beam spam
i think DHCs actually fire 4 shots per cycle wile CRF is on, it might be 3, its been a wile since i took a close look. but then does whats visual match exactly with whats loged? there might be a bit more info gathering again before this is completely analyzed.
oh and beams actual broad side fire arc, inst it only about a 45 deg arc too? with a team of FAWers thats not as much of an issue, but otherwise it can be for cruisers, well except maybe the galor
Heh, yeah - there's all sorts of things that work into it. Girlfriend sent me to go grab some food, so the end bit of my thing was rushed.
But yeah - like you've been saying, like I've been saying, like others have been saying... it's not the X or Y or Z causing it...it's the A-Z and then some that's causing it. All sorts of things have come together to create it.
Outside of the thing mentioned below though, I'm still more likely to die to somebody with Cannons than Beams in the day to day. I don't come across more than 2-3 FAW folks at a time usually. You see them - you avoid them - or well, you mess with them with stuff you may not use otherwise. They're also not likely as well geared as they could be, not built to get the most out of if as they could be...
...it's like a JHAS, a Bug, eh? You could put Random Good Player in it and folks would call it OP. You could put me in it...and...well, it'd probably make a funny YouTube fail video.
BFaW doesnt change the firing arc does it? So to get 8 on target you have to overlap, and you have to hold it for the duration of the fight to continue benefiting from it.
Nice read though.
Correct, each beam is still limited to its 250 arc. The blindly part was more of a reference to not needing a target to target things.
BO, BtS, CRF, CSV, HY, and TS all require a target selected to initiate the attack. Even though CSV and TS will hit non-targeted targets - they do in a cone. FAW can be triggered and will attack targets without the user necessarily even knowing they are there...thus, the blindly aspect. Outside of looking out for AAs, FBP, Haywire, the new AP Lightning Console, etc, etc, etc...or watching out for a Scramble - FAW doesn't require you pay much attention.
Heh, it's one of the reasons I've always enjoyed it in PvE...I can just fly around in circles while watching TV and stuff dies.
In PvP, it's been annoying on more than one case when launching a Beach Ball from a high rear arc or low arc (basically trying to attack from a blindspot) - the target hears the sound (good on them for listening - definitely good for them), FAW -> Beach Ball -> dead Willard...and they never saw me.
Meh, I was going to go fix that CRF comment one way - but I need to fix it anyway...because I completely forgot...FAW double procs. Bah, I'll go edit that.
edit: I've got a post out there somewhere, where I looked at the various abilities - where damage was reduced/increased, etc. I think I asked Hilbert if that matched up with what his data showed. Hrmm, will have to see if I can find that post.
they need RSP, they cant speed tank and zip out of range in 2 seconds
they need DEM that often, without it, and every other contributing factor, these beam boats would be ignorable again
damage control works wonder on escorts, and they already double up all their tac skills, and their sci heals are strong and they dont need to use them as often because they again can speed tank and 'zip out of range tank'.
cannons need to do 100% damage out to 3 range, maybe even 3.5 range, and keep the save downward curve they have currently. if they did, i think they would do about the axact same % damage out to range 5 or so, that sounds fair.
Meh, I was going to go fix that CRF comment one way - but I need to fix it anyway...because I completely forgot...FAW double procs. Bah, I'll go edit that.
edit: I've got a post out there somewhere, where I looked at the various abilities - where damage was reduced/increased, etc. I think I asked Hilbert if that matched up with what his data showed. Hrmm, will have to see if I can find that post.
ya the DEM and FAW logging showed 2 DEM entries per beam, but 1 entry was 3/4 normal damage and the other 1/4, so there really wasn't much of an issue.
but i dont know, ive seen my FAW+DEM do impossible things lately...
oh and beams actual broad side fire arc, inst it only about a 45 deg arc too? with a team of FAWers thats not as much of an issue, but otherwise it can be for cruisers, well except maybe the galor
It's an effective 70 degree arc of overlap, but as you said once you have several ships stacking this it becomes mitigated.
Also, keeping someone in the center of a circle which moves along the natural way ships turn, as opposed to needing to keep a target directly in front of you (to the point where many escorts actually fly backwards often to keep moving targets in arcs) is a pretty significant difference.
damage control works wonder on escorts, and they already double up all their tac skills, and their sci heals are strong and they dont need to use them as often because they again can speed tank and 'zip out of range tank'.
DMG controls, while solid, are not even in the same league as A2B+Techs.
The only reason to go DMG control on a cruiser, is if you intend to be a healer.
A2B does effectively give you 2x the Tac stations, 2x the Eng Stations (-2), and sees you roughly lose/break even/or gain on you Sci Stations depending on what skills you are taking.
Hahaha, this thread. OP needs to learn English and stop whining about being bad at gaem.
You should lurn about the persone befor say any negative comment . The OP won the third no BS tournament, did the final in the 4th no BS tournament AND in duel bug vs bug, he is not defeated !
And for your information, the OP is french and he was not able to say any word in english just like 2 year ago !
You should lurn about the persone befor say any negative comment . The OP won the third no BS tournament, did the final in the 4th no BS tournament AND in duel bug vs bug, he is not defeated !
Appeal to authority? There are quite a few in this thread who can list impressive accomplishments.
And for your information, the OP is french and he was not able to say any word in english just like 2 year ago !
PS: you have the honor to join my ignor list !!!
That excuses his spelling and grammar, but not his demeanor. I've seen many people who are able to come across as mature and intelligent despite being in the same situation as the OP.
To put in another way, the OP comes across as a 12 year old with a loose understanding of English as opposed to an adult with a loose understanding of English. Extreme overuse of exclamation marks and spamming new threads when the old ones start to die out leave a poor impression regardless of what language you speak.
That excuses his spelling and grammar, but not his demeanor. I've seen many people who are able to come across as mature and intelligent despite being in the same situation as the OP.
To put in another way, the OP comes across as a 12 year old with a loose understanding of English as opposed to an adult with a loose understanding of English.Extreme overuse of exclamation marks and spamming new threads when the old ones start to die out leave a poor impression regardless of what language you speak.
You're the operator with only 8 posts? Also you are just driving his point home about the maturity thing if you are indeed Zelda on an alt account.
As for raging about speeling a drammar, like they say it doesn't take too second to finger out English is his seconds luggage. Yew can style under stand him.
So yeah can we leave the language snobbery and mocking out of all this, English is not everyone's main language and at least they try to learn it which is more than can be said for most English speakers and other languages.
You're the operator with only 8 posts? Also you are just driving his point home about the maturity thing if you are indeed Zelda on an alt account.
As for raging about speeling a drammar, like they say it doesn't take too second to finger out English is his seconds luggage. Yew can style under stand him.
So yeah can we leave the language snobbery and mocking out of all this, English is not everyone's main language and at least they try to learn it which is more than can be said for most English speakers and other languages.
I got banned for 5 day cause of the KIRK lovers (they dont like my thread) ! And yes i was raging about BFAW cruser is killing the play style of the escort pilot! So how i should react when i practiced that play style during 2 year? The BFAW now do similar domage as a CRF do and a beam have 270 deg. arc and DHC have 45 deg. arc ,the crusers just have to run in spiral and spam the spcae bar,the escort cant do that for kill somone... its just broken ! Thats why i did 2-3 post,i wanted be saw by the devs, but look like they dont care, 22k persone seen that post already and 0 dev comment !
BTW i tryed to edit this thread title, but i dont know how to change that on this site !
We're not saying "need RSP" either, we're saying "Need RSP on a 60s timer, potentially with 1/3rd uptime if DOFFed".
The only players who really "need" RSP at global are basically kirking it (or are being forced to kirk it).
those stupid doffs certainly make things silly. if your under constant focus you cant escape on a wim, ya an rsp is great that often. when i pug my death blossom gets targeted a lot, if they leave me alone i end up killing everything! AtB cruisers have to rely on res and invulnerability periods more then heals, that are weaker overall but more frequent useable.
compared to my scorts that i dont even run RSP on, im much more comfortable being able to GTFO and speed tank then having no hope of escape and hopping an rsp doesn't draw nuk attention.
Well they could slot 2 copies of DEM, but they don't. That's cost opportunity.
They only slot one copy, DEM 3 and get effectively 2 copies of the best version with A2B.
They then also get 100% uptime on 2 different EPTx skills.
The tac focused ones also get 2 copies of APO, 2 copies of BFAW, 2 copies of TT.
Do they really "need" all of that? So cruisers can be hard to kill and also deal damage?
on a ship that's only option is to stay and fight? having access to that is balancing. before AtB, tac cruisers were not balanced, and quite UP. the power creep that has come out since then combined makes cruisers a bit to dangerous, it has gone slightly to far. but what component should be nerfed? the first thing i would do is bar the use of beam arrays on scimitars...
Also, I'm going to test your theory out and see if I really "need" DEM.
Because I'm still convinced the issue is with overcapping and drain resistance.
DEM can do horrible things to a target. with all but GDF stacked, i striped an ody of 50% of its health in 10 seconds. the 8 acc3 elatchi beams could have only got 1 proc during that time, so it wasn't all thanks to them. its why im in a fleet heavy cruiser, in full ugly cheyeene mode, with RSP2 and ET3, so i can survive unsurvivable beam shield damage and the associated DEM damage, wile still dealing PLENTY of beam damage my self. its a very solid ship actually, +1 of the old sovereign station setup, with beter inertia and +1 turn. plus its the most satisfying and derpy cruiser to MAIM KILL BURN in.
DMG controls, while solid, are not even in the same league as A2B+Techs.
The only reason to go DMG control on a cruiser, is if you intend to be a healer.
A2B does effectively give you 2x the Tac stations, 2x the Eng Stations (-2), and sees you roughly lose/break even/or gain on you Sci Stations depending on what skills you are taking.
that would be a fair point if eng powers and tac powers had equal weight, but they dont. escorts already had it good, they didn't need something thats so transformative as tech doffs to kick the TRIBBLE out of everything. cruisers have a surplus of eng powers, and with tech doffs you can turn part of that surplus into something more useful, doing more with less tac/DEM/RSP, until they were on about equal footing. equal but different. this is all nice and harmonious, as long as things dont start getting unbalanced for one type of ship or the other, like they have. at its core though, AtB is a perfect for creating a tactical alternative to escorts.
I won't quote your post from above to give you time to delete it. I suggest that you do and stop posting under the alt account. If I have to spell out why - you will get in more trouble. So just remove your last post.
Thanks, virus! Can always count on you to do all the tests necessary - where do you get the time?
Anyways, like I said, these discrepancies should at least get some explanation, since they seem rather out of line with the way some people have been seeing weapons balance. It's just a little weird.
I didn't think about the range factor either. Based on that link you gave, at base level, beams start to outperfom cannons at about 5-7km. That does make things a bunch easier for the beam user.
I didn't think about the range factor either. Based on that link you gave, at base level, beams start to outperfom cannons at about 5-7km. That does make things a bunch easier for the beam user.
Was Uncle Ulti's link. I hadn't even thought about the range differences and what that would mean. There are just so many pieces to the puzzle...
I got banned for 5 day cause of the KIRK lover (they dont like my thread) ! And yes i was raging about BFAW cruser is killing the play style of the escort pilot! So how i should react when i practiced that play style during 2 year? The BFAW now do similar domage as a CRF do and a beam have 270 deg. arc and DHC have 45 deg. arc ,the crusers just have to run in spiral and spam the spcae bar,the escort cant do that for kill somone... its just broken ! Thats why i did 2-3 post,i wanted be saw by the devs, but look like they dont care, 22k persone seen that post already and 0 dev comment !
BTW i tryed to edit this thread title, but i dont know how to change that on this site !
You can't edit a thread title unless you are the account that posted it.
Actually I'm not even sure if thread owners can change their own titles, it might actually require a mod to help.
escorts already had it good, they didn't need something thats so transformative as tech doffs to kick the TRIBBLE out of everything. cruisers have a surplus of eng powers, and with tech doffs you can turn part of that surplus into something more useful, doing more with less tac/DEM/RSP, until they were on about equal footing. equal but different. this is all nice and harmonious, as long as things dont start getting unbalanced for one type of ship or the other, like they have. at its core though, AtB is a perfect for creating a tactical alternative to escorts.
There is no such thing as "equal but different" or "alterntative" when one ship can do as much damage, with a better arc, and is also significantly more survivable.
That's when natural selection takes over, and you see what we have in the queues.
Comments
Are you one of the McKenzie brothers, eh?
Where's my beer hoser?
Nice work virus.
Now on top of that, how many escorts even have 4 rear weapons?
How many can run 2x RSP at RSP at GCD?
How many can run 2x DEM or DEM at GCD?
How many can run 2x EPTx abilities with 0 gaps?
How many can run all of that, along with their tac powers of choice also at GCD?
Let's not stop there.
What happens when your DHC vs. BA numbers are at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10KM?
Nice read though.
i found that a bit surprising, i though the gap would be bigger. also 4 singles and 4 turrets were quite noticeably less DPS then 8 beams were too.
i thought, you know maybe they should buff turrets, they are actually to much of a drag on front biased weapons vs beams.
one thing that needs to be pointed out VD, and if you took this into account and i just didn't notice then nevermind, is that CRF reduces DPV and increased number of shots. i dont think FAW does that, it just ads a 5th shot right? but thats another thing, FAW actually causes 1 beam array to fire 10 different shots per cycle, as long as there is more then 2 targets in range. thats how cruiser scoreboard damage numbers can be as high as all the escorts in the match combined. but, unlike with CRF, the shots are spread out, its not all focused on 1 target. only when FAW isnt in are beams able to do what CRF does for cannons. DHCs and BO also deal spike, not just withering DPS, and i still find it harder to counter spike then FAW/DEM beam spam
i think DHCs actually fire 4 shots per cycle wile CRF is on, it might be 3, its been a wile since i took a close look. but then does whats visual match exactly with whats loged? there might be a bit more info gathering again before this is completely analyzed.
oh and beams actual broad side fire arc, inst it only about a 45 deg arc too? with a team of FAWers thats not as much of an issue, but otherwise it can be for cruisers, well except maybe the galor
Heh, yeah - there's all sorts of things that work into it. Girlfriend sent me to go grab some food, so the end bit of my thing was rushed.
But yeah - like you've been saying, like I've been saying, like others have been saying... it's not the X or Y or Z causing it...it's the A-Z and then some that's causing it. All sorts of things have come together to create it.
Outside of the thing mentioned below though, I'm still more likely to die to somebody with Cannons than Beams in the day to day. I don't come across more than 2-3 FAW folks at a time usually. You see them - you avoid them - or well, you mess with them with stuff you may not use otherwise. They're also not likely as well geared as they could be, not built to get the most out of if as they could be...
...it's like a JHAS, a Bug, eh? You could put Random Good Player in it and folks would call it OP. You could put me in it...and...well, it'd probably make a funny YouTube fail video.
Correct, each beam is still limited to its 250 arc. The blindly part was more of a reference to not needing a target to target things.
BO, BtS, CRF, CSV, HY, and TS all require a target selected to initiate the attack. Even though CSV and TS will hit non-targeted targets - they do in a cone. FAW can be triggered and will attack targets without the user necessarily even knowing they are there...thus, the blindly aspect. Outside of looking out for AAs, FBP, Haywire, the new AP Lightning Console, etc, etc, etc...or watching out for a Scramble - FAW doesn't require you pay much attention.
Heh, it's one of the reasons I've always enjoyed it in PvE...I can just fly around in circles while watching TV and stuff dies.
In PvP, it's been annoying on more than one case when launching a Beach Ball from a high rear arc or low arc (basically trying to attack from a blindspot) - the target hears the sound (good on them for listening - definitely good for them), FAW -> Beach Ball -> dead Willard...and they never saw me.
edit: I've got a post out there somewhere, where I looked at the various abilities - where damage was reduced/increased, etc. I think I asked Hilbert if that matched up with what his data showed. Hrmm, will have to see if I can find that post.
i will try to play devils advocate
they need RSP, they cant speed tank and zip out of range in 2 seconds
they need DEM that often, without it, and every other contributing factor, these beam boats would be ignorable again
damage control works wonder on escorts, and they already double up all their tac skills, and their sci heals are strong and they dont need to use them as often because they again can speed tank and 'zip out of range tank'.
cannons need to do 100% damage out to 3 range, maybe even 3.5 range, and keep the save downward curve they have currently. if they did, i think they would do about the axact same % damage out to range 5 or so, that sounds fair.
ya the DEM and FAW logging showed 2 DEM entries per beam, but 1 entry was 3/4 normal damage and the other 1/4, so there really wasn't much of an issue.
but i dont know, ive seen my FAW+DEM do impossible things lately...
Yes perhaps you should both post in your native language for now on. This way we can all be sure to understand which gaem it is you are typing about.
It's an effective 70 degree arc of overlap, but as you said once you have several ships stacking this it becomes mitigated.
Also, keeping someone in the center of a circle which moves along the natural way ships turn, as opposed to needing to keep a target directly in front of you (to the point where many escorts actually fly backwards often to keep moving targets in arcs) is a pretty significant difference.
Need RSP over an Escort not needing?
I'd say that's debatable.
We're not saying "need RSP" either, we're saying "Need RSP on a 60s timer, potentially with 1/3rd uptime if DOFFed".
The only players who really "need" RSP at global are basically kirking it (or are being forced to kirk it).
Well they could slot 2 copies of DEM, but they don't. That's cost opportunity.
They only slot one copy, DEM 3 and get effectively 2 copies of the best version with A2B.
They then also get 100% uptime on 2 different EPTx skills.
The tac focused ones also get 2 copies of APO, 2 copies of BFAW, 2 copies of TT.
Do they really "need" all of that? So cruisers can be hard to kill and also deal damage?
Also, I'm going to test your theory out and see if I really "need" DEM.
Because I'm still convinced the issue is with overcapping and drain resistance.
DMG controls, while solid, are not even in the same league as A2B+Techs.
The only reason to go DMG control on a cruiser, is if you intend to be a healer.
A2B does effectively give you 2x the Tac stations, 2x the Eng Stations (-2), and sees you roughly lose/break even/or gain on you Sci Stations depending on what skills you are taking.
You should lurn about the persone befor say any negative comment . The OP won the third no BS tournament, did the final in the 4th no BS tournament AND in duel bug vs bug, he is not defeated !
And for your information, the OP is french and he was not able to say any word in english just like 2 year ago !
PS: you have the honor to join my ignor list !!!
JOIN us in Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/INQ <
Appeal to authority? There are quite a few in this thread who can list impressive accomplishments.
That excuses his spelling and grammar, but not his demeanor. I've seen many people who are able to come across as mature and intelligent despite being in the same situation as the OP.
To put in another way, the OP comes across as a 12 year old with a loose understanding of English as opposed to an adult with a loose understanding of English. Extreme overuse of exclamation marks and spamming new threads when the old ones start to die out leave a poor impression regardless of what language you speak.
You have the honor to join my ignor list !!!
JOIN us in Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/INQ <
More like you're the OP's alternate account :rolleyes:
If not, it seems everything I wrote about him applies to you as well.
As for raging about speeling a drammar, like they say it doesn't take too second to finger out English is his seconds luggage. Yew can style under stand him.
So yeah can we leave the language snobbery and mocking out of all this, English is not everyone's main language and at least they try to learn it which is more than can be said for most English speakers and other languages.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I got banned for 5 day cause of the KIRK lovers (they dont like my thread) ! And yes i was raging about BFAW cruser is killing the play style of the escort pilot! So how i should react when i practiced that play style during 2 year? The BFAW now do similar domage as a CRF do and a beam have 270 deg. arc and DHC have 45 deg. arc ,the crusers just have to run in spiral and spam the spcae bar,the escort cant do that for kill somone... its just broken ! Thats why i did 2-3 post,i wanted be saw by the devs, but look like they dont care, 22k persone seen that post already and 0 dev comment !
BTW i tryed to edit this thread title, but i dont know how to change that on this site !
JOIN us in Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/INQ <
but ya, immaturity is bad.
those stupid doffs certainly make things silly. if your under constant focus you cant escape on a wim, ya an rsp is great that often. when i pug my death blossom gets targeted a lot, if they leave me alone i end up killing everything! AtB cruisers have to rely on res and invulnerability periods more then heals, that are weaker overall but more frequent useable.
compared to my scorts that i dont even run RSP on, im much more comfortable being able to GTFO and speed tank then having no hope of escape and hopping an rsp doesn't draw nuk attention.
on a ship that's only option is to stay and fight? having access to that is balancing. before AtB, tac cruisers were not balanced, and quite UP. the power creep that has come out since then combined makes cruisers a bit to dangerous, it has gone slightly to far. but what component should be nerfed? the first thing i would do is bar the use of beam arrays on scimitars...
DEM can do horrible things to a target. with all but GDF stacked, i striped an ody of 50% of its health in 10 seconds. the 8 acc3 elatchi beams could have only got 1 proc during that time, so it wasn't all thanks to them. its why im in a fleet heavy cruiser, in full ugly cheyeene mode, with RSP2 and ET3, so i can survive unsurvivable beam shield damage and the associated DEM damage, wile still dealing PLENTY of beam damage my self. its a very solid ship actually, +1 of the old sovereign station setup, with beter inertia and +1 turn. plus its the most satisfying and derpy cruiser to MAIM KILL BURN in.
that would be a fair point if eng powers and tac powers had equal weight, but they dont. escorts already had it good, they didn't need something thats so transformative as tech doffs to kick the TRIBBLE out of everything. cruisers have a surplus of eng powers, and with tech doffs you can turn part of that surplus into something more useful, doing more with less tac/DEM/RSP, until they were on about equal footing. equal but different. this is all nice and harmonious, as long as things dont start getting unbalanced for one type of ship or the other, like they have. at its core though, AtB is a perfect for creating a tactical alternative to escorts.
Thanks, virus! Can always count on you to do all the tests necessary - where do you get the time?
Anyways, like I said, these discrepancies should at least get some explanation, since they seem rather out of line with the way some people have been seeing weapons balance. It's just a little weird.
I didn't think about the range factor either. Based on that link you gave, at base level, beams start to outperfom cannons at about 5-7km. That does make things a bunch easier for the beam user.
Was Uncle Ulti's link. I hadn't even thought about the range differences and what that would mean. There are just so many pieces to the puzzle...
BTW you did a good job, the devs shoud engage you for test their product befor the release!
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Last bit of friendly advise: go to your last post and delete ALL of it. Your playing a dangerous game with the mods.
You can't edit a thread title unless you are the account that posted it.
Actually I'm not even sure if thread owners can change their own titles, it might actually require a mod to help.
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Well now you got the message-lights go on!!
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Half the things that make these builds so good in the first place are all of the Eng powers.
The best ships right now all have a health dose of Eng stations, specifically due to how power EPTx powers, RSP, DEM, and Aux to batts have become.
There is no such thing as "equal but different" or "alterntative" when one ship can do as much damage, with a better arc, and is also significantly more survivable.
That's when natural selection takes over, and you see what we have in the queues.
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