After this... I would really like to know how... the other STO... would have been...
I still fly my Sci Ship... why? Because I still want to... I love them, I love the Vesta... this doesn't mean that I am not useless!
It just means that I have accepted my fate and live with it...
Which is obsolete, because not only can escorts now tank as well as cruisers, but they move faster which means they can get out of weapons range, and they have a much higher base defense rating than cruisers.
So you going to try and tell this guy how to play his game because of what you say... I play what ship I want my game I play my way .... Don't care what any body says..
Kind of depressing reading that interview, really sounds like they are having issues adding new ships now. If only someone had predicted this was going to happen and could come up with a solution for it... Ship Tier Revamp
Sadly I think they've released so many C-store ships now, that making alterations to the system will be almost impossable without annoying people who have spent so much money on ships.
To be honest, I'm a huge ship fan, but I barely play now as the game just feels like a Pokemon game for collecting ships. I want decent challanging content to use my ships in, My ship is kitted out in all the best gear but I have nothing to really do in my ship...
To be honest, I'm a huge ship fan, but I barely play now as the game just feels like a Pokemon game for collecting ships. I want decent challanging content to use my ships in, My ship is kitted out in all the best gear but I have nothing to really do in my ship...
This is how I've been feeling lately. I have all these sweet ships with all this sweet gear but not a whole lot to do with them right now. At least nothing that I haven't already been doing for the last year or so. That's why I'm really looking forward to the Dyson Sphere. I'm hoping it gives the endgame boost this game needs so much.
Sadly I think they've released so many C-store ships now, that making alterations to the system will be almost imposable without annoying people who have spent so much money on ships.
If Cryptic were to nerf c-store ships, I would be one of those angry customers.
...To be honest, I'm a huge ship fan, but I barely play now as the game just feels like a Pokemon game for collecting ships. I want decent challanging content to use my ships in, My ship is kitted out in all the best gear but I have nothing to really do in my ship...
I have been saying this for the last two years.
On a side-note: I bought a science-odyssey. After I realized that it was practically useless, I brought it back to spacedock and changed its name to 'U.S.S. Spare Parts'. I use it to store extra consoles. rofl... Even though its hull can withstand a lot of damage, the ship's weapons systems barely left a scratch.
Lead designer is just a title. There's still an emotional human being behind it. Missteps in MMO design is not uncommon. Even the best of them makes very large mistakes that they have to correct later or risk killing the company.
Making mistakes, even big ones, are a completely different topic than being so gorram oblivious of the state of YOUR game that you have been appointed LEAD DESIGNER to, that even people like me, and I've been a staunch defender of the "human-ness" of developers and possible mistakes etc., are questioning if you actually even once played the game "for real"...
My feeling is that he knows how it works and appropriately talks about topics... as written in the appropriate design documents...
And we all know how much the theory can divert from its live application...
Edit: Yes, I may be a bit harsh and I will apologize if it is too much... but I am really, really disappointed by this...
And the New Stuff for Eng and Sci cannot alleviate that feeling in the slightest... I mean, simple logic, If he (they) think nothing is wrong with the triptychon how "awesome" can this new stuff be?
And more Career specific targets?
Really? I will be just as useless as before... I am then only dragged along to do this stuff, like the TRIBBLE fat kid that got the keys to the police offices from his dad and got told not to give them away but the cool kids really want to "break" into the offices and lockers...
All I have to say is wait till: Star Citizen comes out, X3 Rebirth and Eve: Valkyrie comes out. Then 50% of the players leave for those games, then they'll make major changes.
I've only been playing this game since April 2013, but seeing how so many (whom have been playing since 2011) are upset, means that the dev team is in their own world.
Matter of fact, I don't think they'll care if 50% of the player base leaves for other "space based games", because they are so far in their own little world.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
All I have to say is wait till: Star Citizen comes out, X3 Rebirth and Eve: Valkyrie comes out. Then 50% of the players leave for those games, then they'll make major changes.
I've only been playing this game since April 2013, but seeing how so many (whom have been playing since 2011) are upset, means that the dev team is in their own world.
Matter of fact, I don't think they'll care if 50% of the player base leaves for other "space based games", because they are so far in their own little world.
I have to agree. Star Citizen looks absolutely stunning for an alpha as well. STO is still rocking 2005 graphics in 2013.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
All I have to say is wait till: Star Citizen comes out, X3 Rebirth and Eve: Valkyrie comes out. Then 50% of the players leave for those games, then they'll make major changes.
I've only been playing this game since April 2013, but seeing how so many (whom have been playing since 2011) are upset, means that the dev team is in their own world.
Matter of fact, I don't think they'll care if 50% of the player base leaves for other "space based games", because they are so far in their own little world.
I'll beleive that when I see it.... So far Star Citizen seem to be more "shiny" than playable...
Does anyone else get a shiver down their spine at just how disconnected from the in game reality our lead designer is?
Escorts arent king?
Control setups arent terribad?
Tanks are effective and contribute something to the group?
Are you serious?
To the Lead Designer, I am issuing you a challenge.
You pick the exploration cruiser, gear it out with the best possible gear in the game and come do an STF with me. I will parse the data.
I guarantee you four things, using my nearly maxed out tacscort:
- I will do four times the damage you do, no matter what weapons you use
- I will hold more aggro than you, no matter how much you spec into threat
- I will do as much healing as you do, no matter how much you spec into healing
- I will contribute way more than you could ever hope to, no matter how hard you try to beat me.
An Aux2Bat version of that cruiser running full Rommie plasma and a bunch of specific universal consoles would probably be able to reduce your damage over it to maybe 1.5x instead of 4x, but it's healing would suffer greatly. It would also probably be able to grab aggro from you with some TC. Just saying.
Though i don't play feds, i do want to fight a good Galaxy class starship which i never see in PvP... like many other Fed ships which seems to be rare now due to this ''Power Creep Era'' with Foreign Alien Ships and their Universal Boff's Station which makes them adaptive.
here a thought Cryptic for a future possible change to the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit/Fleet and the Dreadnought Cruiser (and future fleet variant). though i see most of the stats fine (Hull, Turn Rate, Shield Mod. etc), here's a slight change that u Cryptic should consider and will make the evil Feds happy and make these Galaxies atleast put up a fight in PvP and PvE and not to mention will make more money for u in the long run, not to mention these ships won't lose their identity with these changes.
Exploration Cruiser Retrofit - Console & Boff Station changes
Engineer Consoles - x4 (x5 w/Fleet Version)
Science Consoles - x2 (-1 from Current Setup)
Tactical Consoles - x3 (+1 from Current Setup)
Universal Boff Station - replace either the Engineer Ensign Station or the Engineer Lt. Commander Station
Engineer Consoles - x4 (5x w/Future Fleet Version)
Sceince Consoles - x1 (-1 from Current Setup)
Tactical Consoles - x4 (+1 from Current Setup)
Universal Boff Station - replace either the Tactical Ensign Station or the Engineer Lt. Commander Engineer Station
If you can make these changes to those Galaxies Cryptic... u can make alot of people happy and hopefully end the ''What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic?'' thread once and for all!
There's also some other ships on the C-store that needs a non-drastic changes to be modernized in Post LoR era and some other ships that needs a Fleet Version (like the Atrox, D'Kyr, Cruiser Retrofit, Maurader, Kar'fi and more.)
So, I have to ask...were I to report Geko's replies as trolling...would I:
1) Be pulled aside and quietly told not to do that again?
2) Receive a slap on the wrist and disappear for a few days?
3) Be taken into a back room, beaten to a pulp, and disappear for a month or two?
4) Become a figment of people's imagination as every mention of my existence was purged and I was never seen from again?
[CaptainGeko] We are strongly considering giving older ships a second look to see if any of them need some love. We have a couple in mind, but I don't want to share which ones yet in case the list changes. But, to be clear, I'm talking about older ships, not the Odyssey or Bortasqu. We are happy with those, although we may consider new set bonuses for them.
Awesome start, right? I mean, really - that's a pretty good start.
[CaptainGeko] We have talked about this quite a bit, and, exactly as you described in the question, we are planning on adding more set bonuses to ships. Since there are so many ships, we will probably release a few at a time.
Wow, this is going pretty well, am I right?
[CaptainGeko] We could sell a 3-ship Galaxy pack that would include the T4 Galaxy Refit, the T5 Galaxy Retrofit and the Galaxy Dreadnought, or even possibly the T5 Galaxy Retrofit, the Galaxy Dreadnought and a new variant ? though, there is no plan for either at this moment in time. We have considered bundling retrofits and refits. Perhaps as we introduce set bonuses.
Makes sense...makes sense, right?
[CaptainGeko] Not exactly. We have considered allowing users to purchase Bridge Officer seating and ship slot options for their ships, but this would require a significant amount of new tech. Even though it is a lot of work, we do think it is worth it, but it?s too early to say exactly that that would mean for players.
Been discussed quite a bit in the past...
[CaptainGeko] Unlikely. Making all players ship purchases obsolete would be something we would want to avoid. Possible alternatives would be (and I'm just brainstorming now): A level cap increase to characters only; allow players to level up any T5 ship ? either with time or Zen; or maybe something completely different.
Again, been discussed in the past...
[CaptainGeko] There is a new T5 Klingon ship planned. It?s actually already designed and partly made. We had hoped on releasing it before the end of the year, but that may not be practical anymore. The ship artists are feverishly working on some epic Voth ships and other Season 8 content at the moment. I prefer not to speculate at this time when the new Klingon ship will be done, but it?s in the works.
Trollololol...
[CaptainGeko] We recently were discussing this. We have started to evaluate Klingon Raiders and we will determine soon whether any tuning is needed.
Trollololol...
[CaptainGeko] It isn't effective to release too many ships at once ? especially competing ships. Typically, we release fleet versions of ships sometime after the C-store version is released. Presumably, this question is regarding the Ar'Kif. Eventually, a Fleet version will be made available, but I would rather not speculate on the exact date.
Trollololol...
[CaptainGeko] The Corsair and the Scourge currently have no customization options and are only available in the C-store and Fleet Store, and I do not anticipate any new costume options for those ships in the near future. As for the B'rel, we will have to look into it and see if there is something that needs attention.
Trollololol...
[CaptainGeko] We are aware of the reports and are looking into the validity of these claims.
OMFG, Trollololol...
[CaptainGeko] I don't know if I would agree that the vast majority of ships that are released "scream DPS and Tactical", though it should be no surprise they are popular. We are currently working on a new mechanic for Cruisers (and related Battlecruisers and Flight Deck Cruisers), as well as Science Vessels. I can't give you any details at this time, but you may see something soon.
OMFG, Trollololol...
[CaptainGeko] I don't personally agree with this statement and feel it is hyperbole to say "science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete". At the same time, I completely acknowledge that many players prefer DPS builds over control or tanking builds ? that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. But I feel this is usually the opinion of hard core and dedicated players. Hard core players will always find the most optimal build.
There are few ways to address this: make everything else better; nerf Escorts (oh the horror!); offer gameplay objectives that only certain classes can achieve; offer new gameplay mechanics to other classes to make them tactically interesting, or change the entire game to satisfy more traditional Tank/Support/DPS MMO gameplay. Any change will either have no significant effect on the perceived value of Escorts, or it could possibly just shift the ?flavor of the week. ?
My take as Lead Designer is that the problem is not significant. Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly. Now, that all being said, I don't deny the effectiveness of Escorts, and I'm not saying we are not interested in offering new options. As mentioned above, we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions. Also, some of the new Content in Season 8 has objectives that are better completed by different ship classes. But I don't believe any of these changes will significantly change ship roles in STO ? our goal is to just keep things fresh and fun.
Remember those "I've got a headache this big!" commercials? After the /facepalm reading that...yeah.
I agree with this ^^^^^
Imho it feels like were being punished for playing STO
Alot of words with hollow meanings , vague answers to anything worth addressing , and as usual KDF gets cryptics middle finger yet again.
Idk just seems they dont care anymore and just money grabbing as much as they can before the eventual end of STO ?.
Anyone know when the licensing from CBS ends? cause it seems to me like cryptic and PWE is scrambling to make as much money as fast as possible why the rush?
If the devs dont care for the game and only concerned with making money fast then its time to look elsewhere for something better.
As is the case ive been looking elsewhere for soemthing worth my time effort and cash STO isnt worth it imho.
Mister Geko and the cryptic team aswell as PWE take a look at Battlestar galactica Online as an example of a game that was mismanaged developed poorly and money grabbed to death.
And now its finally in its death throws as players are quitting everyday and not many new players start playing.
You guys develop things no one wants you dont care what we players think and seem oblivious to the fact players have began quitting becuase of your incompetence and ignorance.
I like STO and would hate to see it die the death BGO has this game deserves so much better then that but as it is thats the road its taking.
Someone said not past 2014 idk i think this game might die when the licensing from CBS expires unless CBS pulls the plug first.
we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions.
Why? When nothings wrong with the Disparity between Escorts and the Rest how exciting can these new mechanics be without breaking what they perceive as near perfect balance?
And new BO Abilities?
The Sci and Eng will be as useless as the current abilities and the Tac will be yet another ability that will unify so much stuff (even non Tac stuff) that it gets ridiculously strong (see: Attack Pattern Omega).
we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions.
Why? When nothings wrong with the Disparity between Escorts and the Rest how exciting can these new mechanics be without breaking what they perceive as near perfect balance?
And new BO Abilities?
The Sci and Eng will be as useless as the current abilities and the Tac will be yet another ability that will unify so much stuff (even non Tac stuff) that it gets ridiculously strong (see: Attack Pattern Omega).
Agreed. Whenever Cryptic adds a new mechanic, the player is stuck paying the grinding price. Other words, this new possible mechanic will have an insane dilithium cost.
Creating those warp cores was like pulling the rug out from underneath everyone. Cryptic saw a chance to grab more cash, and they did it without batting an eye.
To be honest, pretty much the entire answer to the last question really seemed like a load of BS to me. Pretty much all of it. The game is all in favor of DPS, all of Cryptics games are, from champions to neverwinter, to anything they haven't even planned yet. The more DPS you have, the better you do, regardless. While yes, i can fly a cruiser or a science ship, they really wont do me any good unless they can bring the damage. Tanks and sci really only feel like support unless the captains can really bring it, and tanks can't even tank, unless they have special items built in to specifically draw attention, and even then the DPS can still out aggro them.
The person asking the question was entirely right though when they said that a team of 5 DPS, would out perform almost ANY other team, especially when placed in a time limit. Cryptic really needs to add more content that is class specific so that i can actually feel like i'm doing something science wise, or like an engineer would. The did this for a few missions, but over all, they need it game wide. Even if it's just adding a minigame for those classes to increase or slow the time left, or adding better disable abilities to those classes for pve. Don't Nerf tactical, make the other two BETTER. It makes no sense to make the game worse instead of bringing everything else to a better quality level.
What ever happened to diplomacy and being able to solve things that way? Granted i know this is a video game, so combat is a must, but i shouldn't have to be a god damned flying murder machine either. Every time i see someone that isn't in the federation, my only choice shouldn't be genocide. This is Star Trek, and there is something very wrong with the Federation captains having a body count in the millions.
Okay...
I might have been a little ranty there...
TL;DR: Make more options to make engineering and science better. This is Star Trek, not Murder Trek
Kind of depressing reading that interview, really sounds like they are having issues adding new ships now. If only someone had predicted this was going to happen and could come up with a solution for it... Ship Tier Revamp
Sadly I think they've released so many C-store ships now, that making alterations to the system will be almost impossable without annoying people who have spent so much money on ships.
To be honest, I'm a huge ship fan, but I barely play now as the game just feels like a Pokemon game for collecting ships. I want decent challanging content to use my ships in, My ship is kitted out in all the best gear but I have nothing to really do in my ship...
Oh my, I so wish they had taken all of your ideas. Would have given ships a whole new lease of life, and possibly allowed us to fly what ever ship we want with the stats we want.
They at least took one part of your idea, the warp core, but the devs created more power creep rather than what you originally set it out for
-New Klingon Ship 'not cool enough' to be finished this year. Will be done *after* season 8 is released.
-Klingon BoP's don't need any tuning ('we'll form a committee to open discussion on the relevant points of this proposal that may or may not need doing' has long been Cryptic speak for "No")
-'I would rather not speculate on a date' = after S8/never (for the fleet Ar'Kif)
-(Acknowledges that there aren't any customization options for some ships. Says that customization is unlikely to happpen in the near future. 'near future' is Cryptic speak for 'ever')
-'We are aware of reports and are looking into forming a committee to discuss the study to discern the validity of these allegations', a simple "No" would have sufficed.
-'*sticks head in sand about Tac/DPS having huge advantage over every other ship type*' 'It's just because they're popular, not because they're intrinsticly better.' 'you may see something soon' = 'after Season 8/never'
-'Science/Eng aren't obselete, nobody uses them because everyone just magically decides to play tactical instead.' Proceeds to ACTIVELY DEFAME the PVP community by claiming it's our fault because we will 'always find the most optimal build'. Cites that the dichotomy between tac and non-tac is a purely 'opinion' based conjecture- ie: "That's, like, your opinion maaaan."
Goes on about how any way to address the problem- which he at least acknowledges exists, will be a MASSIVE, SIGNIFICANT undertaking. Then says it's not significant in the next line.
-'Our goal is to keep the game fresh and fun (For tacs? I guess), not balance the ship/class roles or actually listen to the gods damned playerbase, logic, data, or reason'
Though i may not like some of CaptainGeko's answers like the Validation of OP Romulans boff's (which is clear to be superior to both KDF/Fed boff's) and how the Ships class problems which certain Escorts type ships can dominate roles better than most Cruisers and Sci Ships.
But i do agree with CaptainGeko about the Level 60 cap on Tier 6 ships, but i have some idea's Cryptic could check... if one of the Dev's read this post.
T6 Ships in General
- Add maybe 20% more Stats to T6 Ships
- +2 Consoles for T6 Ships
- +2 Weapons for T6 Ships
- Add a Captain Boff Station since the main player is already a General/Admiral
Introduction of Elite Fleet Ships (Negh'var, B'rel, Atrox, Regent, Vo'quv, etc.)
- Keep the Fleet Ship Modules (as we don't need any more different currency)
- Average Price the Elite Fleet Ships at 40,000 Fleet Points & 6 Fleet Ship Modules
- Discounts from Tier 5 Ships which make it at 40,000 Fleet Points & 2 Fleet Ship Modules
(like Atrox, Galaxy Retro, Kar'fi, B'rel Retro, Defiant Retro, etc.)
Introduction of Fleet Versions for 3-Pack Ships (Bortas, Odessey, Kumari, Vesta, Scimitar, etc)
- Requires one of the 3-Pack ships to purchase Fleet Version with Fleet Ship Modules
- Discounts for 3-Pack ships to 40,000 Fleet Points & 2 Fleet Ship Modules
Introduction of Retrofits for Lobi/Lock Box Ships (JHAS, JHDC, Galor, Maurader, etc.)
- Purchase a T6 Retrofit update thing for around 200-300 Lobi Crystal's (Similar to an update on the Jem'hadar Tech Set)
Introduction of Dreadnought/Battleship class for FED/KDF Factions (which is mention b4)
- Make playable versions of Dreadnoughts like the Warbarge, Ravager, Balaur, Drek'Hi, Typhoon and the current unamed Federation Dreadnought and some original design from Align member world's like maybe a Vulcan Dreadnought, Ferasan, Caitians etc.
- Possibly make these T6 C-store Ships at 3000 Zen
- Dreadnought/Battleships should have a standard of 6 Boff stations
- Dreadnought/Battleships should also have a higher Hull and Shield Mod compare to Cruisers, but have a very inferior Turn Rate and Speed to most Cruisers
these are a few idea's i just brainstorming at the moment...
Someone said not past 2014 idk i think this game might die when the licensing from CBS expires unless CBS pulls the plug first.
I think CBS pulling the license would be a good wake up call Cryptic/PWE and a good warning to any company in the future creating a Star Trek game. I have tried to return to playing more than once but all I see are grinds, give me your money, and nothing to do but the same old stuff. Worst of all, the game is still riddled full of bugs that have no fixes in sight.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
[Q] In PvE ? the science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete. A team of 5 escorts(or similar ships of the tactical breed) can do end-game PvE, STFs with optionals far better, faster and more effective than any other combination. Regardless if I personally agree with this statement or not, this is one of the most popular beliefs stated continuously on the STO forum. What is your take on this as a Lead Content Designer for STO?
[CaptainGeko] I don't personally agree with this statement and feel it is hyperbole to say "science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete". At the same time, I completely acknowledge that many players prefer DPS builds over control or tanking builds ? that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. But I feel this is usually the opinion of hard core and dedicated players. Hard core players will always find the most optimal build.
There are few ways to address this: make everything else better; nerf Escorts (oh the horror!); offer gameplay objectives that only certain classes can achieve; offer new gameplay mechanics to other classes to make them tactically interesting, or change the entire game to satisfy more traditional Tank/Support/DPS MMO gameplay. Any change will either have no significant effect on the perceived value of Escorts, or it could possibly just shift the ?flavor of the week. ?
My take as Lead Designer is that the problem is not significant. Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly. Now, that all being said, I don't deny the effectiveness of Escorts, and I'm not saying we are not interested in offering new options. As mentioned above, we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions. Also, some of the new Content in Season 8 has objectives that are better completed by different ship classes. But I don't believe any of these changes will significantly change ship roles in STO ? our goal is to just keep things fresh and fun.
This isn't my question, but obviously there was either some misinterpretation or miscommunication between this question and the answer. To say nothing of what appears to be a lack of an actual approach to the problem.
I will point out tht "Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly" part.
How are those ships built? Can you see them? Cause you should take a look sometime.
Tanking as the typical RPG role is impossible in this game. Its supposed to be apparently, and some enemies are designed to kill or one-shot you easily no matter what. But there are ways around it, the idea of taking damage is different than the typical RPG role of tanking. That role doesn't exist in this game, it can't.
That Tanking most talk about is taking on multiple enemies near indefinitely and surviving. Its not something that works within several instances of STO. Starbase 24? You can take on an impressive amount with a cruiser, Aegis set or Fleet shield - but if you are 30+ to 1 you can't live well no matter what. Borg. That should be enough, as the abusing Shield Neutralizers and Tachyon Beams strip a ship's defenses for plasma torpedoes of doom to hit. The concept of Tanking can't fit, not with how things work now. Being outnumbered by Borg Spheres or Cubes at once is asking for a pounding.
Control is another impossible role, the mechanics blocks it. There's immunity to placate and system disable built in, preventing the idea of stopping them in the tracks. I understand it, as it can be really annoying to be chain-locked, but if that's supposed to be a viable option, why not? The answer is its not supposed to be in this game obviously.
The reason is damage. Admit it, the game is designed around the concept of the player blasting the enemy to pieces. Damage is the solution. You don't need tanking, you need enough to live to deal damage. You don't need control, just enough to make dealing damage easier.
There you said you saw plenty of Cruisers and Sci ships around. Well of course, they have those tricks - but they AREN'T DESIGNED ONLY FOR those tricks by the players. It can probably be said that most if not nearly all of them are built around the thought of dealing as much damage buy using the tools available to do so easier. Placate tools to mitigate damage recieved, Grav wells to keep them bunched up tight or TBs to limit where the enemy is.
A Cruiser isn't being built to tank, its built to take damage while dealing alot of it. Many Cruisers are using the popular Aux2Bat build to deal as much damage as possible while taking enough to survive to do it. They aren't Tanks in the regards of surviving impossible numbers indifently. They are being built to survive the enemy or two in front of it and with enough damage to kill them before they kill it. My own main character flys an Oddy, designed for damage - and a pretty decent amount - not designed to tank everything in sight. Heck, it can't tank some enemies at all, but I can kill others easily.
Science ships are the same. They are designed to use the control features to limit the enemy so they can deal enough damage to defeat them. Or restrict the enemy's odds of killing it while it kills them.
Escorts? Warbirds? Simplicity itself here. Built for damage, they deal damage, designed for damage and dish out damage. Some have a handy tool here or there to help, but the goal: damage.
Back to the question: the Tanking and Control roles? They don't exist in STO. Its not a minor problem, not a "not serious" one as its a defining part of options and the deceptive game screen at the moment hides the fact it isn't just they aren't the key roles. Those pure roles are not roles that are within STO. Not when the boss solution is a few million HP and a the difficult answer is a timer to how fast you can kill it.
The game is designed for damage, you need damage, and the pure roles of Tanks and Control can't work in many of the elite STFs people run simply in how the game is done. A Tank can't survive that, and a controller can't stop that kind of thing. Its impossible. We can't prevent Dontra's cloak, and in Onslought you can't prevent the lance from firing. There is even a glitch where Dontra's Toloaron attack triggers early if you disable its weapons somehow.
Would I like to see a Tank, or something that would really fit as a Controller here? Sure. best ones I had were in the old City Of Heroes. Broken as hell and fun to play in PvE and that was the point. I could tank mobs all day, or lock them down till I felt like taking a break. Can't happen here, and I miss that sometimes.
I would almost wonder if a Cruiser perk is a boost to defensive powers to make them better, or a Science perk so controlling effects can be chained possibly - bbut eh, I'm sure we'll see what kind of damage-oriented support feature we'll see will help those ships remain viable while trying to deal damage in the future.
Why don't we contact CBS, let them know how this game is mismanaged. We can request that they not renew the license agreement and hope that a more competent developer produces a Star Trek game we can live with. "soon"
Anytime I look at another MMO, and how quickly they fix bugs and how quickly they respond to player feedback it's just crystal clear that Cryptic does not give a Sh*t as long as it's profitable.
Anytime I look at another MMO, and how quickly they fix bugs and how quickly they respond to player feedback it's just crystal clear that Cryptic does not give a Sh*t as long as it's profitable.
This right here is such a true statement, i feel that Cryptic has pretty much turned it's back on things like Quality, customization, and fun, in favor of just trying to get money from a cheap gimmick. Just look at how Champions and Neverwinter are being run. It really says something bad about a company when it clearly gives up on a lot of the great ideas they had in favor or a cheap buck over a quality buy. Either way, i'm not pleased about how they're doing things, and i hope that Season 8 manages to bring some good stuff back to help redeem some of the negative aspects.
Don't agree that DPS is the optimal way to do end game content? Are you nuts? The reason you see other ships is because a lot of the players don't understand that statement or don't care. It doesn't change the fact that the quickest way to complete STFs is to bring damage (be it cruiser BFAW or escorts). Science abilities have very little utility (things die to quickly to the DPS crew, or borg fly away from holds) while tanking is not needed because things die before they kill you.
Please, please, please change the dynamic. Make things harder or add role specific ways to aid the fight (or even ultra-elite STFs that require each class to complete tasks)
Thank god Star Citizen is getting closer to a realized game, amazing what a smart man and a start up can produce compared to a true licensed franchise name that has endless possibilities shoved into lockboxes instead.
Why don't we contact CBS, let them know how this game is mismanaged. We can request that they not renew the license agreement and hope that a more competent developer produces a Star Trek game we can live with. "soon"
Anytime I look at another MMO, and how quickly they fix bugs and how quickly they respond to player feedback it's just crystal clear that Cryptic does not give a Sh*t as long as it's profitable.
This could be a good way to empower STO players and send a strong message to Cryptic/PWE to listen to feedback, improve where needed, or be stripped of the Star Trek license.
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Comments
I still fly my Sci Ship... why? Because I still want to... I love them, I love the Vesta... this doesn't mean that I am not useless!
It just means that I have accepted my fate and live with it...
So you going to try and tell this guy how to play his game because of what you say... I play what ship I want my game I play my way .... Don't care what any body says..
Ship Tier Revamp
Sadly I think they've released so many C-store ships now, that making alterations to the system will be almost impossable without annoying people who have spent so much money on ships.
To be honest, I'm a huge ship fan, but I barely play now as the game just feels like a Pokemon game for collecting ships. I want decent challanging content to use my ships in, My ship is kitted out in all the best gear but I have nothing to really do in my ship...
This is how I've been feeling lately. I have all these sweet ships with all this sweet gear but not a whole lot to do with them right now. At least nothing that I haven't already been doing for the last year or so. That's why I'm really looking forward to the Dyson Sphere. I'm hoping it gives the endgame boost this game needs so much.
Mine Trap Supporter
I bought around eight c-store ships.
I have been saying this for the last two years.
On a side-note: I bought a science-odyssey. After I realized that it was practically useless, I brought it back to spacedock and changed its name to 'U.S.S. Spare Parts'. I use it to store extra consoles. rofl... Even though its hull can withstand a lot of damage, the ship's weapons systems barely left a scratch.
Making mistakes, even big ones, are a completely different topic than being so gorram oblivious of the state of YOUR game that you have been appointed LEAD DESIGNER to, that even people like me, and I've been a staunch defender of the "human-ness" of developers and possible mistakes etc., are questioning if you actually even once played the game "for real"...
My feeling is that he knows how it works and appropriately talks about topics... as written in the appropriate design documents...
And we all know how much the theory can divert from its live application...
Edit: Yes, I may be a bit harsh and I will apologize if it is too much... but I am really, really disappointed by this...
And the New Stuff for Eng and Sci cannot alleviate that feeling in the slightest... I mean, simple logic, If he (they) think nothing is wrong with the triptychon how "awesome" can this new stuff be?
And more Career specific targets?
Really? I will be just as useless as before... I am then only dragged along to do this stuff, like the TRIBBLE fat kid that got the keys to the police offices from his dad and got told not to give them away but the cool kids really want to "break" into the offices and lockers...
I've only been playing this game since April 2013, but seeing how so many (whom have been playing since 2011) are upset, means that the dev team is in their own world.
Matter of fact, I don't think they'll care if 50% of the player base leaves for other "space based games", because they are so far in their own little world.
I have to agree. Star Citizen looks absolutely stunning for an alpha as well. STO is still rocking 2005 graphics in 2013.
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R.I.P
and Eve? yeah.... being a newb in Eve stinks...
My character Tsin'xing
The Roach has spoken truth.
Just look all over the PvP/Game Mechanics section, if the devs aren't convinced by all those threads I don't know what will convince them.
An Aux2Bat version of that cruiser running full Rommie plasma and a bunch of specific universal consoles would probably be able to reduce your damage over it to maybe 1.5x instead of 4x, but it's healing would suffer greatly. It would also probably be able to grab aggro from you with some TC. Just saying.
Scimitar Version of the story:
Cardassian Bridge Officer: Captain a Scimitar just decloaked off of our starboard bow!
Cardassian Captain: ... *cricket cricket*
Rest of Cardassian Crew: ... *cricket cricket*
Scimitar Recloaks and wanders away as the dust cloud that was the Cardassian ship slowly expands...
I think I got that one right...
here a thought Cryptic for a future possible change to the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit/Fleet and the Dreadnought Cruiser (and future fleet variant). though i see most of the stats fine (Hull, Turn Rate, Shield Mod. etc), here's a slight change that u Cryptic should consider and will make the evil Feds happy and make these Galaxies atleast put up a fight in PvP and PvE and not to mention will make more money for u in the long run, not to mention these ships won't lose their identity with these changes.
Exploration Cruiser Retrofit - Console & Boff Station changes
Engineer Consoles - x4 (x5 w/Fleet Version)
Science Consoles - x2 (-1 from Current Setup)
Tactical Consoles - x3 (+1 from Current Setup)
Universal Boff Station - replace either the Engineer Ensign Station or the Engineer Lt. Commander Station
Dreadnought Cruiser (aka Tactical Galaxy) - Console & Boff Station changes
Engineer Consoles - x4 (5x w/Future Fleet Version)
Sceince Consoles - x1 (-1 from Current Setup)
Tactical Consoles - x4 (+1 from Current Setup)
Universal Boff Station - replace either the Tactical Ensign Station or the Engineer Lt. Commander Engineer Station
If you can make these changes to those Galaxies Cryptic... u can make alot of people happy and hopefully end the ''What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic?'' thread once and for all!
There's also some other ships on the C-store that needs a non-drastic changes to be modernized in Post LoR era and some other ships that needs a Fleet Version (like the Atrox, D'Kyr, Cruiser Retrofit, Maurader, Kar'fi and more.)
I am sorry but you are wrong, a Scimitar would not decloak.
I agree with this ^^^^^
Imho it feels like were being punished for playing STO
Alot of words with hollow meanings , vague answers to anything worth addressing , and as usual KDF gets cryptics middle finger yet again.
Idk just seems they dont care anymore and just money grabbing as much as they can before the eventual end of STO ?.
Anyone know when the licensing from CBS ends? cause it seems to me like cryptic and PWE is scrambling to make as much money as fast as possible why the rush?
If the devs dont care for the game and only concerned with making money fast then its time to look elsewhere for something better.
As is the case ive been looking elsewhere for soemthing worth my time effort and cash STO isnt worth it imho.
Mister Geko and the cryptic team aswell as PWE take a look at Battlestar galactica Online as an example of a game that was mismanaged developed poorly and money grabbed to death.
And now its finally in its death throws as players are quitting everyday and not many new players start playing.
You guys develop things no one wants you dont care what we players think and seem oblivious to the fact players have began quitting becuase of your incompetence and ignorance.
I like STO and would hate to see it die the death BGO has this game deserves so much better then that but as it is thats the road its taking.
Someone said not past 2014 idk i think this game might die when the licensing from CBS expires unless CBS pulls the plug first.
Why? When nothings wrong with the Disparity between Escorts and the Rest how exciting can these new mechanics be without breaking what they perceive as near perfect balance?
And new BO Abilities?
The Sci and Eng will be as useless as the current abilities and the Tac will be yet another ability that will unify so much stuff (even non Tac stuff) that it gets ridiculously strong (see: Attack Pattern Omega).
Creating those warp cores was like pulling the rug out from underneath everyone. Cryptic saw a chance to grab more cash, and they did it without batting an eye.
The person asking the question was entirely right though when they said that a team of 5 DPS, would out perform almost ANY other team, especially when placed in a time limit. Cryptic really needs to add more content that is class specific so that i can actually feel like i'm doing something science wise, or like an engineer would. The did this for a few missions, but over all, they need it game wide. Even if it's just adding a minigame for those classes to increase or slow the time left, or adding better disable abilities to those classes for pve. Don't Nerf tactical, make the other two BETTER. It makes no sense to make the game worse instead of bringing everything else to a better quality level.
What ever happened to diplomacy and being able to solve things that way? Granted i know this is a video game, so combat is a must, but i shouldn't have to be a god damned flying murder machine either. Every time i see someone that isn't in the federation, my only choice shouldn't be genocide. This is Star Trek, and there is something very wrong with the Federation captains having a body count in the millions.
Okay...
I might have been a little ranty there...
TL;DR: Make more options to make engineering and science better. This is Star Trek, not Murder Trek
Oh my, I so wish they had taken all of your ideas. Would have given ships a whole new lease of life, and possibly allowed us to fly what ever ship we want with the stats we want.
They at least took one part of your idea, the warp core, but the devs created more power creep rather than what you originally set it out for
-Klingon BoP's don't need any tuning ('we'll form a committee to open discussion on the relevant points of this proposal that may or may not need doing' has long been Cryptic speak for "No")
-'I would rather not speculate on a date' = after S8/never (for the fleet Ar'Kif)
-(Acknowledges that there aren't any customization options for some ships. Says that customization is unlikely to happpen in the near future. 'near future' is Cryptic speak for 'ever')
-'We are aware of reports and are looking into forming a committee to discuss the study to discern the validity of these allegations', a simple "No" would have sufficed.
-'*sticks head in sand about Tac/DPS having huge advantage over every other ship type*' 'It's just because they're popular, not because they're intrinsticly better.' 'you may see something soon' = 'after Season 8/never'
-'Science/Eng aren't obselete, nobody uses them because everyone just magically decides to play tactical instead.' Proceeds to ACTIVELY DEFAME the PVP community by claiming it's our fault because we will 'always find the most optimal build'. Cites that the dichotomy between tac and non-tac is a purely 'opinion' based conjecture- ie: "That's, like, your opinion maaaan."
Goes on about how any way to address the problem- which he at least acknowledges exists, will be a MASSIVE, SIGNIFICANT undertaking. Then says it's not significant in the next line.
-'Our goal is to keep the game fresh and fun (For tacs? I guess), not balance the ship/class roles or actually listen to the gods damned playerbase, logic, data, or reason'
But i do agree with CaptainGeko about the Level 60 cap on Tier 6 ships, but i have some idea's Cryptic could check... if one of the Dev's read this post.
T6 Ships in General
- Add maybe 20% more Stats to T6 Ships
- +2 Consoles for T6 Ships
- +2 Weapons for T6 Ships
- Add a Captain Boff Station since the main player is already a General/Admiral
Introduction of Elite Fleet Ships (Negh'var, B'rel, Atrox, Regent, Vo'quv, etc.)
- Keep the Fleet Ship Modules (as we don't need any more different currency)
- Average Price the Elite Fleet Ships at 40,000 Fleet Points & 6 Fleet Ship Modules
- Discounts from Tier 5 Ships which make it at 40,000 Fleet Points & 2 Fleet Ship Modules
(like Atrox, Galaxy Retro, Kar'fi, B'rel Retro, Defiant Retro, etc.)
Introduction of Fleet Versions for 3-Pack Ships (Bortas, Odessey, Kumari, Vesta, Scimitar, etc)
- Requires one of the 3-Pack ships to purchase Fleet Version with Fleet Ship Modules
- Discounts for 3-Pack ships to 40,000 Fleet Points & 2 Fleet Ship Modules
Introduction of Retrofits for Lobi/Lock Box Ships (JHAS, JHDC, Galor, Maurader, etc.)
- Purchase a T6 Retrofit update thing for around 200-300 Lobi Crystal's (Similar to an update on the Jem'hadar Tech Set)
Introduction of Dreadnought/Battleship class for FED/KDF Factions (which is mention b4)
- Make playable versions of Dreadnoughts like the Warbarge, Ravager, Balaur, Drek'Hi, Typhoon and the current unamed Federation Dreadnought and some original design from Align member world's like maybe a Vulcan Dreadnought, Ferasan, Caitians etc.
- Possibly make these T6 C-store Ships at 3000 Zen
- Dreadnought/Battleships should have a standard of 6 Boff stations
- Dreadnought/Battleships should also have a higher Hull and Shield Mod compare to Cruisers, but have a very inferior Turn Rate and Speed to most Cruisers
these are a few idea's i just brainstorming at the moment...
I think CBS pulling the license would be a good wake up call Cryptic/PWE and a good warning to any company in the future creating a Star Trek game. I have tried to return to playing more than once but all I see are grinds, give me your money, and nothing to do but the same old stuff. Worst of all, the game is still riddled full of bugs that have no fixes in sight.
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[CaptainGeko] I don't personally agree with this statement and feel it is hyperbole to say "science abilities are useless and the tanking role is obsolete". At the same time, I completely acknowledge that many players prefer DPS builds over control or tanking builds ? that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. But I feel this is usually the opinion of hard core and dedicated players. Hard core players will always find the most optimal build.
There are few ways to address this: make everything else better; nerf Escorts (oh the horror!); offer gameplay objectives that only certain classes can achieve; offer new gameplay mechanics to other classes to make them tactically interesting, or change the entire game to satisfy more traditional Tank/Support/DPS MMO gameplay. Any change will either have no significant effect on the perceived value of Escorts, or it could possibly just shift the ?flavor of the week. ?
My take as Lead Designer is that the problem is not significant. Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly. Now, that all being said, I don't deny the effectiveness of Escorts, and I'm not saying we are not interested in offering new options. As mentioned above, we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions. Also, some of the new Content in Season 8 has objectives that are better completed by different ship classes. But I don't believe any of these changes will significantly change ship roles in STO ? our goal is to just keep things fresh and fun.
This isn't my question, but obviously there was either some misinterpretation or miscommunication between this question and the answer. To say nothing of what appears to be a lack of an actual approach to the problem.
I will point out tht "Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly" part.
How are those ships built? Can you see them? Cause you should take a look sometime.
Tanking as the typical RPG role is impossible in this game. Its supposed to be apparently, and some enemies are designed to kill or one-shot you easily no matter what. But there are ways around it, the idea of taking damage is different than the typical RPG role of tanking. That role doesn't exist in this game, it can't.
That Tanking most talk about is taking on multiple enemies near indefinitely and surviving. Its not something that works within several instances of STO. Starbase 24? You can take on an impressive amount with a cruiser, Aegis set or Fleet shield - but if you are 30+ to 1 you can't live well no matter what. Borg. That should be enough, as the abusing Shield Neutralizers and Tachyon Beams strip a ship's defenses for plasma torpedoes of doom to hit. The concept of Tanking can't fit, not with how things work now. Being outnumbered by Borg Spheres or Cubes at once is asking for a pounding.
Control is another impossible role, the mechanics blocks it. There's immunity to placate and system disable built in, preventing the idea of stopping them in the tracks. I understand it, as it can be really annoying to be chain-locked, but if that's supposed to be a viable option, why not? The answer is its not supposed to be in this game obviously.
The reason is damage. Admit it, the game is designed around the concept of the player blasting the enemy to pieces. Damage is the solution. You don't need tanking, you need enough to live to deal damage. You don't need control, just enough to make dealing damage easier.
There you said you saw plenty of Cruisers and Sci ships around. Well of course, they have those tricks - but they AREN'T DESIGNED ONLY FOR those tricks by the players. It can probably be said that most if not nearly all of them are built around the thought of dealing as much damage buy using the tools available to do so easier. Placate tools to mitigate damage recieved, Grav wells to keep them bunched up tight or TBs to limit where the enemy is.
A Cruiser isn't being built to tank, its built to take damage while dealing alot of it. Many Cruisers are using the popular Aux2Bat build to deal as much damage as possible while taking enough to survive to do it. They aren't Tanks in the regards of surviving impossible numbers indifently. They are being built to survive the enemy or two in front of it and with enough damage to kill them before they kill it. My own main character flys an Oddy, designed for damage - and a pretty decent amount - not designed to tank everything in sight. Heck, it can't tank some enemies at all, but I can kill others easily.
Science ships are the same. They are designed to use the control features to limit the enemy so they can deal enough damage to defeat them. Or restrict the enemy's odds of killing it while it kills them.
Escorts? Warbirds? Simplicity itself here. Built for damage, they deal damage, designed for damage and dish out damage. Some have a handy tool here or there to help, but the goal: damage.
Back to the question: the Tanking and Control roles? They don't exist in STO. Its not a minor problem, not a "not serious" one as its a defining part of options and the deceptive game screen at the moment hides the fact it isn't just they aren't the key roles. Those pure roles are not roles that are within STO. Not when the boss solution is a few million HP and a the difficult answer is a timer to how fast you can kill it.
The game is designed for damage, you need damage, and the pure roles of Tanks and Control can't work in many of the elite STFs people run simply in how the game is done. A Tank can't survive that, and a controller can't stop that kind of thing. Its impossible. We can't prevent Dontra's cloak, and in Onslought you can't prevent the lance from firing. There is even a glitch where Dontra's Toloaron attack triggers early if you disable its weapons somehow.
Would I like to see a Tank, or something that would really fit as a Controller here? Sure. best ones I had were in the old City Of Heroes. Broken as hell and fun to play in PvE and that was the point. I could tank mobs all day, or lock them down till I felt like taking a break. Can't happen here, and I miss that sometimes.
I would almost wonder if a Cruiser perk is a boost to defensive powers to make them better, or a Science perk so controlling effects can be chained possibly - bbut eh, I'm sure we'll see what kind of damage-oriented support feature we'll see will help those ships remain viable while trying to deal damage in the future.
Anytime I look at another MMO, and how quickly they fix bugs and how quickly they respond to player feedback it's just crystal clear that Cryptic does not give a Sh*t as long as it's profitable.
This right here is such a true statement, i feel that Cryptic has pretty much turned it's back on things like Quality, customization, and fun, in favor of just trying to get money from a cheap gimmick. Just look at how Champions and Neverwinter are being run. It really says something bad about a company when it clearly gives up on a lot of the great ideas they had in favor or a cheap buck over a quality buy. Either way, i'm not pleased about how they're doing things, and i hope that Season 8 manages to bring some good stuff back to help redeem some of the negative aspects.
Please, please, please change the dynamic. Make things harder or add role specific ways to aid the fight (or even ultra-elite STFs that require each class to complete tasks)
This could be a good way to empower STO players and send a strong message to Cryptic/PWE to listen to feedback, improve where needed, or be stripped of the Star Trek license.
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