Hoo, boy......*Runs off to stock up on Tyken's aftershocks*
Grrrrr...you tiny mouse, how dare you! I am going to call pest control! Now the Tyken's purple doff are selling at 11 million+ minimum. But I managed to snatch two mispriced ones at 750K each.
Still, I think the tribble testing will show it to be underpowered no matter what. It has to or else, Escorts will be crying for nerf before it even hits the holodeck, same goes for GW. :cool:
Here is what will likely happen when the GW and Tyken's fix hit Tribble (Warning : Dramatization, do not imitate at home )
Unnamed Escort hero : "Woah! Dearest Adjudicator Hawk, the GW III and Tyken's Rift III are super OP!"
Average STO forum reader : "What's wrong?"
Unnamed Escort hero : "Look, my super OP Bug ship can't move, nerf this now!"
Average STO Sci Captain : "Really? The Borg probe is still moving like nothing happened at all..."
Unnamed Escort hero : "Says who? My speed used to be 110 with EPtE now I am moving at merely 109.5! Did you know this reduction of 0.5 will get my bug ship killed! Nerf this now!"
Average STO Sci Captain : "o_o"
Get ready, because the nerf cry will be coming soon.
Tyken's Rift III is now pretty devastating when properly skilled and Aux'd up. Possibly too much so, but since it requires a fairly substantial investment to power it up so high... I left it where it is, for now.
Testing feedback will be most appreciated, when this change lands on Tribble. Please keep an eye out for the patch notes.
Tyken's Rift III is now pretty devastating when properly skilled and Aux'd up. Possibly too much so, but since it requires a fairly substantial investment to power it up so high... I left it where it is, for now.
Testing feedback will be most appreciated, when this change lands on Tribble. Please keep an eye out for the patch notes.
fairly devastating against what? your crappy npc's with no resists?
give'm 50% resists right off the bat and then let us know how devastating it is.
Grrrrr...you tiny mouse, how dare you! I am going to call pest control! Now the Tyken's purple doff are selling at 11 million+ minimum. But I managed to snatch two mispriced ones at 750K each.
Still, I think the tribble testing will show it to be underpowered no matter what. It has to or else, Escorts will be crying for nerf before it even hits the holodeck, same goes for GW. :cool:
Heh, didn't realize the prices would spike up that far! I only got 6 or so, though, so it sure wasn't me pushing up the price. There were plenty left at 2mil or so.
Anyways, even if underpowered, a doff proc will help massively combined with other drains/holds - especially on Romulans.
Here is what will likely happen when the GW and Tyken's fix hit Tribble (Warning : Dramatization, do not imitate at home )
Unnamed Escort hero : "Woah! Dearest Adjudicator Hawk, the GW III and Tyken's Rift III are super OP!"
Average STO forum reader : "What's wrong?"
Unnamed Escort hero : "Look, my super OP Bug ship can't move, nerf this now!"
Average STO Sci Captain : "Really? The Borg probe is still moving like nothing happened at all..."
Unnamed Escort hero : "Says who? My speed used to be 110 with EPtE now I am moving at merely 109.5! Did you know this reduction of 0.5 will get my bug ship killed! Nerf this now!"
Average STO Sci Captain : "o_o"
Get ready, because the nerf cry will be coming soon.
I see this happening as well and it makes me sad because this update is making me happy enough to pull out my Fleet Nova.
Heh, didn't realize the prices would spike up that far! I only got 6 or so, though, so it sure wasn't me pushing up the price. There were plenty left at 2mil or so.
Anyways, even if underpowered, a doff proc will help massively combined with other drains/holds - especially on Romulans.
Snatched another mispriced one at 600K, looks like some people are really careless when posting sales on Exchange. The rest are all 11 million+. Thought about cornering the Klingon side of the business as well, you know, even Fed toons can buy Klingon doffs - just not using them so that most of the Klingons can't access it or will have to pay 100 million a piece for it but the KDF side is far worse, like 16 million+ minimum already before this fix even hits Tribble. May still be worthwhile to take the KDF supply of purple Tyken's doff prisoners once we know more about how this is going to turn out. I am evil I know.
Tyken's Rift doff are special because there is no farm version available unlike the Gravity Well version and they are also rare. Nobody cared about them because the power is completely broken but if Borticus fixed this correctly, boy, they become instant gold mines.
Most of the PvPers here still live under the false security that Power Insulation will be able to save their bacon due to 50% resist but I suppose most of them didn't bother checking on the recent research that the Federation put into developing devastating drain tactics and combo attacks. Even with just a combination of 3 sources, it's enough to cripple most of the Romulan warbirds and that's not counting things like Tachyon Beam, Tractor Beam drain, Tetryon Glider or Polaron/Tetryon proc. I can't imagine the impact of adding a 4th source even if it's capped somehow, if the Tyken's Rift III really is as devastating as Borticus implies. But I won't wake them up, ignorance is a bliss.
I see this happening as well and it makes me sad because this update is making me happy enough to pull out my Fleet Nova.
Get ready to turn out in big number when the fix hits Tribble. Spread the word and let the Sci Captains or Sci-loving people know. Tell them to participate in the testing and feedback or else Escorts are going to try to get it nerfed through lies and deceits, guaranteed. There is no other way.
What is the point in a grav well when you have either of these that are both horrendously better at GW's job than GW itself? Just run one of these and save a boff slot for something more effective.
What is the point in a grav well when you have either of these that are both horrendously better at GW's job than GW itself? Just run one of these and save a boff slot for something more effective.
Don't name me when someone rages...ah he'll name me.
Graviton pulse generator, then when the ships are sat there like numpty's slap a tykens 3 with doff and hope it procs many more rifts. Bye bye rommy warbirds.
If you're feeling like a complete ba****d throw in the subspace console, theta radiation and/or gravity well 1. More science ships = more fun.
I'm half tempted to return TR to my disable sci build so I can use the SNB + SScan + PF + Weapon bat + APO/B + FAW/Target X subsystem (depending upon number of targets) + VM + TB + TR + PSW (When I feel like it)
So that which was already nasty may get nastier :P Otherwise I'll just swap TR back to Scramble but I would prefer a disable type +damage addition to my ship to make it more self sufficient.
What is the point in a grav well when you have either of these that are both horrendously better at GW's job than GW itself? Just run one of these and save a boff slot for something more effective.
You can stack them or stagger them to produce a stronger or consecutively longer movement debuff if needed.
No offense but if in NWS you need to stagger the wells then it's not going so hot (exception last wave). The other consoles do do as good a job though but they don't allow for chain warp core breaches.
Did we get an answer as to why it's not OK for a max'd out (skill and power levels) Commander level Sci skill to not be able take out a group of 5 Frigates, but FAW/EWP/CSV can do that and it's totally cool, all the while being significantly "cheaper" to use?
Perhaps, when viewed in that light, GW could use a further buff instead of it's "nerf"?
Did we get an answer as to why it's not OK for a max'd out (skill and power levels) Commander level Sci skill to not be able take out a group of 5 Frigates, but FAW/EWP/CSV can do that and it's totally cool, all the while being significantly "cheaper" to use?
Perhaps, when viewed in that light, GW could use a further buff instead of it's "nerf"?
How about we let them sort out what they think it should be then we throw a GW party on tribble when they let us play and test it out.
I trust we'll be testing both 1v1 PvP + PvE and fustercluck PvP and PvE?
Did we get an answer as to why it's not OK for a max'd out (skill and power levels) Commander level Sci skill to not be able take out a group of 5 Frigates, but FAW/EWP/CSV can do that and it's totally cool, all the while being significantly "cheaper" to use?
I agree with you. As a tac captain, with GW1/CSV and torpedo spreads, I took out the whole S side of NWS by myself in about 15 seconds without spending skill points on GW related sci skills. GW was used just to clump the ships together for easy kills.
We can sit here and dissect the changes of GW as being less than ideal for a whole day and we probably will still manage to nitpick a lot. The truth is, these fixes are already 100 times better than what we had before. How long has Tyken's Rift being completely broken yet with no less than thousands of bug reports filed on it, it was completely ignored? I am grateful we now have a more pro-active developer on this than before. Quite honestly, he fixed quite a bit lately. No one is perfect and I am sure we are not going to see eye to eye on every single detail but I am just grateful that the bugs are fixed.
Did we get an answer as to why it's not OK for a max'd out (skill and power levels) Commander level Sci skill to not be able take out a group of 5 Frigates, but FAW/EWP/CSV can do that and it's totally cool, all the while being significantly "cheaper" to use?
Perhaps, when viewed in that light, GW could use a further buff instead of it's "nerf"?
Not saying it can't be done, but I've never seen EWP take things out without supplementary fire.
On that note, the reason why CSV and FAW do more damage then GW is because a ship that hits you with grav well... they can also hit you with CSV and FAW at the same time... They aren't mutually exclusive. If you made GW the same damage as CSV *AND* gave it holding/clumping ablities... would it not then be overpowered compared to CSV?
To many people try to look at sci skills in a vacuum...
Edit: Admittedly, I totally suck at aiming my EWP =P
And... Is it just CSV that is killing them all in one shot, or is it APA+APO+EPTW+SS+ + + +?
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Not saying it can't be done, but I've never seen EWP take things out without supplementary fire.
On that note, the reason why CSV and FAW do more damage then GW is because a ship that hits you with grav well... they can also hit you with CSV and FAW at the same time... They aren't mutually exclusive. If you made GW the same damage as CSV *AND* gave it holding/clumping ablities... would it not then be overpowered compared to CSV?
To many people try to look at sci skills in a vacuum...
Edit: Admittedly, I totally suck at aiming my EWP =P
And... Is it just CSV that is killing them all in one shot, or is it APA+APO+EPTW+SS+ + + +?
Bullox. You can cvs or crf 1 with science vessel but what makes it deadly is the tac captain and other buffs like attack pattern beta and alpha. I can't do that in my science ship with science captain.
This game is all about the DPS race so give science some tools to close the gap. I am not saying that they be anywhere equal but in the same ballpark. If we spec heavily into the particle and graviton fields then let our ship have some teeth.
It is freakin PvE. Being able to do about 1/2 as well as tac in twice the time is not a lot to ask.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Not saying it can't be done, but I've never seen EWP take things out without supplementary fire.
On that note, the reason why CSV and FAW do more damage then GW is because a ship that hits you with grav well... they can also hit you with CSV and FAW at the same time... They aren't mutually exclusive. If you made GW the same damage as CSV *AND* gave it holding/clumping ablities... would it not then be overpowered compared to CSV?
To many people try to look at sci skills in a vacuum...
Edit: Admittedly, I totally suck at aiming my EWP =P
And... Is it just CSV that is killing them all in one shot, or is it APA+APO+EPTW+SS+ + + +?
A buffed EWP is absolutely terrifying. There have been guys pumping it up to beyond 1,000 damage/tick.
But the thing is that CSV/FAW/Whatever build on what you're already got - you're already got those Weapons that are doing high damage, now you're just buffing them up even higher with something as simple as a Lt-level skill.
For GW 3, you've got to sacrifice power to run high Aux, spec heavily into PartGen and GravGen, and lose your Cmdr-level ability.
Something that is THAT expensive (power, skilling, possibly consoles, and Commander-level) SHOULD be doing a butt ton of damage. And if it's maxed out, why shouldn't it be able to do what a few DHCs and an Lt level skill (with have the cooldown, at that) can do?
A buffed EWP is absolutely terrifying. There have been guys pumping it up to beyond 1,000 damage/tick.
But the thing is that CSV/FAW/Whatever build on what you're already got - you're already got those Weapons that are doing high damage, now you're just buffing them up even higher with something as simple as a Lt-level skill.
For GW 3, you've got to sacrifice power to run high Aux, spec heavily into PartGen and GravGen, and lose your Cmdr-level ability.
Something that is THAT expensive (power, skilling, possibly consoles, and Commander-level) SHOULD be doing a butt ton of damage. And if it's maxed out, why shouldn't it be able to do what a few DHCs and an Lt level skill (with have the cooldown, at that) can do?
Not saying the math all works out perfect, but if you have already gone the route of maxing part gen and aux and et all, You now also have a whole host of other skills and abilities that are buffed now as well.
And there is nothing stopping me from maxing out aux and weapons and the relevant sci skills and running 4 tac consoles with dhcs and CRF2 (go, go Vesta!) or beams and FaW3.
Again, until we have some numbers to work with it's all speculation, but that doesn't mean it isn't easy to see where GW can't possibly deal as much raw damage as fully buffed weapons. You get to have both at the same time...
Edit: And a Vesta doesn't even have to choose between weapon power and aux if they really want to, either.
And EWP might do 1000 a tick, but it does 0 a tick once its cleared by HE (but at least it soaked the HE). My GW tooltip currently reads over 1,400 a tick, and (should) clump targets as well (Cleared by any good movement buff, but soaks the movement buff)
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Not saying the math all works out perfect, but if you have already gone the route of maxing part gen and aux and et all, You now also have a whole host of other skills and abilities that are buffed now as well.
And there is nothing stopping me from maxing out aux and weapons and the relevant sci skills and running 4 tac consoles with dhcs and CRF2 (go, go Vesta!) or beams and FaW3.
Again, until we have some numbers to work with it's all speculation, but that doesn't mean it isn't easy to see where GW can't possibly deal as much raw damage as fully buffed weapons. You get to have both at the same time...
Edit: And a Vesta doesn't even have to choose between weapon power and aux if they really want to, either.
Disregarding everything else, that argument only holds true for a Vesta... what about the Wells? Nebula? RSV? DSSV? etc etc
Sci ships have an inherent disadvantage compared to the other ship types when it comes to damage. Less weapon slots, lower Weapons power, fewer Tac consoles and BOffs (in general), so on and so forth. Sci depends on it's BOff abilities for damage, moreso than an Escort or Cruiser.
But those two still depend on their BOffs for damage too - and they get a lot of it. Why shouldn't Sci have the ability to do damage with BOff abilities?
We don't have numbers yet, but we know that GW 3 is going to be "nerfed" from where it should be, simply due to the fact that the Devs feel that it shouldn't be able to take out a group of 5 Frigates - but it's totally fine when a single CSV does that.
Some other sci ships are nearly as potent (wells has 3 tac consoles and can have a Ltcom tac, Fleet nova ltcom tac and 3 tac consoles. Fleet Luna isn't bad either) and the rest are in roughly the same boat as many cruisers. Solution: If you want a DPS sci ship, fly a DPS sci ship.
Again, my buffed grav wells list for a ton of damage.... I reserve my judgment for when I have some numbers and some experience with how it feels. They may nerf it to much and I'll be complaining loudly about how it wasn't good enough =P but for now I understand the reasoning, even tho it means it's power that I won't be getting (I am a sci, after all =P)
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Since we're talking about inherent disadvantages, along with broken abilities like Gravity Well, and this comment isn't' toward you, Praxi, but the people who THINK they are working on the game:
All(?) science ships have the innate ability to disable any sub-system. Correct?
So if that is SUPPOSEDLY unique to the science-class, why aren't they allowed to have higher tier sub-system disabling up to tier 3???
Why are the stupid tactical ships allowed to have level 3 subsystem disabling?? They don't even need it!! I don't know about you guys but this seems completely idiotic.
High tier sub-system disabling should be a SCIENCE ABILITY not a tactical ability, but SCIENCE!! :mad:
What is the point of giving tactical captains that specialized ability, or for that matter making high tier sub-system disabling a tactical ability, when they could take out a target WITHOUT the need to disable any system???
If tactical captains are given such high tier sub-system disabling, why do you people even bother putting innate tier 1 sub-system disabling abilities on science ships?! Just to insult our intelligence? :mad:
This is where I've always thought there needs l be a "universal" bridge offer type. Not just station, some powers can really either 2 or all 3 classifications. This would solve that.
This is where I've always thought there needs l be a "universal" bridge offer type. Not just station, some powers can really either 2 or all 3 classifications. This would solve that.
I'm sorry but i don't want everybody to have a universal boff that uses science powers or else whats the point of having the science class!? subsystem disabling should be listed as science abilities, not tactical abilities. :mad:
The main issue is, that you get only an target sub 1 in a sci ship as inate, which is pretty pointless, especially now with the resistances. Would be nice if they upgrade the Target Subsystem inate abilities to lvl 2 in the lvl 50 sci ships.
And btw. why should target subsystems be a sci power? Depending on the point of view it can also be a eng or a tac power. The fact that sci ships get a inate version of it, does not mean it is a sci skill.
They just gave it to sci ships as a compensation. To be honest i don't remember which argument they used, why sci ships have a inbuild version.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
I'm sorry but i don't want everybody to have a universal boff that uses science powers or else whats the point of having the science class!? subsystem disabling should be listed as science abilities, not tactical abilities. :mad:
Bad idea. Now if they actually added more space boff traits it would be nice. The existing selection is 4 (there is a 5th, but only some players have those):
Leadership = Subsystem Repair + 20 skill<- Note that with 5, you can skip spending skill point on this altogether.
Efficient = +7.5 WC effciency. <- if you have an effcient captain and spend a couple of points on this skill, it is completely pointless unless you like getting +1 or less power per boff.
Superior Romulan Operative = The current favorite, the crit boff. (Limited to tac stations for fed adding to the escorts online theme)
Subterfuge (Romulan) Infiltrator (Reman) = Cloack buff
So out of those 4, we have one cloack boff, one tac boff, and 2 engineer skill boffs. It would be nice if devs threw sci captains a nice boff with a sci trait. How about a boffs with Astrophysicist and with the same +10 bonus as the captain (like Leadership on the subsystem repair side)? I think it would balance things off for sci toons.
I'm sorry but i don't want everybody to have a universal boff that uses science powers or else whats the point of having the science class!? subsystem disabling should be listed as science abilities, not tactical abilities. :mad:
who said it'd use science powers? science powers are science powers last i heard....
subsystem disabling should be listed as science abilities, not tactical abilities.
I'm curious as to why you think that?
You do realize that the following are the Skill Categories, right?
Tactical Systems
Engineering Systems
Science and Operation Systems
And further with that, then - you realize that Tactical and Engineering are part of Operations, right?
It's the reason that so much can easily appear as if it could be multiple categories.
Something that's Operations could be Tac or Eng, and since they include Operations with Sci, it could be part of Sci as well...
...Science in STO is a Cryptic fabrication. Most of it is actually Tac/Eng with some Science...which in turn, in trying to fit things in - led them to doing what they did, eh?
Comments
Grrrrr...you tiny mouse, how dare you! I am going to call pest control! Now the Tyken's purple doff are selling at 11 million+ minimum. But I managed to snatch two mispriced ones at 750K each.
Still, I think the tribble testing will show it to be underpowered no matter what. It has to or else, Escorts will be crying for nerf before it even hits the holodeck, same goes for GW. :cool:
Unnamed Escort hero : "Woah! Dearest Adjudicator Hawk, the GW III and Tyken's Rift III are super OP!"
Average STO forum reader : "What's wrong?"
Unnamed Escort hero : "Look, my super OP Bug ship can't move, nerf this now!"
Average STO Sci Captain : "Really? The Borg probe is still moving like nothing happened at all..."
Unnamed Escort hero : "Says who? My speed used to be 110 with EPtE now I am moving at merely 109.5! Did you know this reduction of 0.5 will get my bug ship killed! Nerf this now!"
Average STO Sci Captain : "o_o"
Get ready, because the nerf cry will be coming soon.
Thank you!
fairly devastating against what? your crappy npc's with no resists?
give'm 50% resists right off the bat and then let us know how devastating it is.
Do you even Science Bro?
Heh, didn't realize the prices would spike up that far! I only got 6 or so, though, so it sure wasn't me pushing up the price. There were plenty left at 2mil or so.
Anyways, even if underpowered, a doff proc will help massively combined with other drains/holds - especially on Romulans.
Like my fanpage!
https://www.facebook.com/CaptainBMoney913
Join Date: August 29th 2010
Snatched another mispriced one at 600K, looks like some people are really careless when posting sales on Exchange. The rest are all 11 million+. Thought about cornering the Klingon side of the business as well, you know, even Fed toons can buy Klingon doffs - just not using them so that most of the Klingons can't access it or will have to pay 100 million a piece for it but the KDF side is far worse, like 16 million+ minimum already before this fix even hits Tribble. May still be worthwhile to take the KDF supply of purple Tyken's doff prisoners once we know more about how this is going to turn out. I am evil I know.
Tyken's Rift doff are special because there is no farm version available unlike the Gravity Well version and they are also rare. Nobody cared about them because the power is completely broken but if Borticus fixed this correctly, boy, they become instant gold mines.
Most of the PvPers here still live under the false security that Power Insulation will be able to save their bacon due to 50% resist but I suppose most of them didn't bother checking on the recent research that the Federation put into developing devastating drain tactics and combo attacks. Even with just a combination of 3 sources, it's enough to cripple most of the Romulan warbirds and that's not counting things like Tachyon Beam, Tractor Beam drain, Tetryon Glider or Polaron/Tetryon proc. I can't imagine the impact of adding a 4th source even if it's capped somehow, if the Tyken's Rift III really is as devastating as Borticus implies. But I won't wake them up, ignorance is a bliss.
Get ready to turn out in big number when the fix hits Tribble. Spread the word and let the Sci Captains or Sci-loving people know. Tell them to participate in the testing and feedback or else Escorts are going to try to get it nerfed through lies and deceits, guaranteed. There is no other way.
What is the point in a grav well when you have either of these that are both horrendously better at GW's job than GW itself? Just run one of these and save a boff slot for something more effective.
Don't name me when someone rages...ah he'll name me.
Graviton pulse generator, then when the ships are sat there like numpty's slap a tykens 3 with doff and hope it procs many more rifts. Bye bye rommy warbirds.
If you're feeling like a complete ba****d throw in the subspace console, theta radiation and/or gravity well 1. More science ships = more fun.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
So that which was already nasty may get nastier :P Otherwise I'll just swap TR back to Scramble but I would prefer a disable type +damage addition to my ship to make it more self sufficient.
You can stack them or stagger them to produce a stronger or consecutively longer movement debuff if needed.
NWS in particular comes to mind.
Or to put it another way
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Perhaps, when viewed in that light, GW could use a further buff instead of it's "nerf"?
How about we let them sort out what they think it should be then we throw a GW party on tribble when they let us play and test it out.
I trust we'll be testing both 1v1 PvP + PvE and fustercluck PvP and PvE?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I agree with you. As a tac captain, with GW1/CSV and torpedo spreads, I took out the whole S side of NWS by myself in about 15 seconds without spending skill points on GW related sci skills. GW was used just to clump the ships together for easy kills.
Not saying it can't be done, but I've never seen EWP take things out without supplementary fire.
On that note, the reason why CSV and FAW do more damage then GW is because a ship that hits you with grav well... they can also hit you with CSV and FAW at the same time... They aren't mutually exclusive. If you made GW the same damage as CSV *AND* gave it holding/clumping ablities... would it not then be overpowered compared to CSV?
To many people try to look at sci skills in a vacuum...
Edit: Admittedly, I totally suck at aiming my EWP =P
And... Is it just CSV that is killing them all in one shot, or is it APA+APO+EPTW+SS+ + + +?
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Bullox. You can cvs or crf 1 with science vessel but what makes it deadly is the tac captain and other buffs like attack pattern beta and alpha. I can't do that in my science ship with science captain.
This game is all about the DPS race so give science some tools to close the gap. I am not saying that they be anywhere equal but in the same ballpark. If we spec heavily into the particle and graviton fields then let our ship have some teeth.
It is freakin PvE. Being able to do about 1/2 as well as tac in twice the time is not a lot to ask.
- Judge Aaron Satie
A buffed EWP is absolutely terrifying. There have been guys pumping it up to beyond 1,000 damage/tick.
But the thing is that CSV/FAW/Whatever build on what you're already got - you're already got those Weapons that are doing high damage, now you're just buffing them up even higher with something as simple as a Lt-level skill.
For GW 3, you've got to sacrifice power to run high Aux, spec heavily into PartGen and GravGen, and lose your Cmdr-level ability.
Something that is THAT expensive (power, skilling, possibly consoles, and Commander-level) SHOULD be doing a butt ton of damage. And if it's maxed out, why shouldn't it be able to do what a few DHCs and an Lt level skill (with have the cooldown, at that) can do?
Not saying the math all works out perfect, but if you have already gone the route of maxing part gen and aux and et all, You now also have a whole host of other skills and abilities that are buffed now as well.
And there is nothing stopping me from maxing out aux and weapons and the relevant sci skills and running 4 tac consoles with dhcs and CRF2 (go, go Vesta!) or beams and FaW3.
Again, until we have some numbers to work with it's all speculation, but that doesn't mean it isn't easy to see where GW can't possibly deal as much raw damage as fully buffed weapons. You get to have both at the same time...
Edit: And a Vesta doesn't even have to choose between weapon power and aux if they really want to, either.
And EWP might do 1000 a tick, but it does 0 a tick once its cleared by HE (but at least it soaked the HE). My GW tooltip currently reads over 1,400 a tick, and (should) clump targets as well (Cleared by any good movement buff, but soaks the movement buff)
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Disregarding everything else, that argument only holds true for a Vesta... what about the Wells? Nebula? RSV? DSSV? etc etc
Sci ships have an inherent disadvantage compared to the other ship types when it comes to damage. Less weapon slots, lower Weapons power, fewer Tac consoles and BOffs (in general), so on and so forth. Sci depends on it's BOff abilities for damage, moreso than an Escort or Cruiser.
But those two still depend on their BOffs for damage too - and they get a lot of it. Why shouldn't Sci have the ability to do damage with BOff abilities?
We don't have numbers yet, but we know that GW 3 is going to be "nerfed" from where it should be, simply due to the fact that the Devs feel that it shouldn't be able to take out a group of 5 Frigates - but it's totally fine when a single CSV does that.
Again, my buffed grav wells list for a ton of damage.... I reserve my judgment for when I have some numbers and some experience with how it feels. They may nerf it to much and I'll be complaining loudly about how it wasn't good enough =P but for now I understand the reasoning, even tho it means it's power that I won't be getting (I am a sci, after all =P)
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
This is where I've always thought there needs l be a "universal" bridge offer type. Not just station, some powers can really either 2 or all 3 classifications. This would solve that.
Do you even Science Bro?
100% agreed.
The main issue is, that you get only an target sub 1 in a sci ship as inate, which is pretty pointless, especially now with the resistances. Would be nice if they upgrade the Target Subsystem inate abilities to lvl 2 in the lvl 50 sci ships.
And btw. why should target subsystems be a sci power? Depending on the point of view it can also be a eng or a tac power. The fact that sci ships get a inate version of it, does not mean it is a sci skill.
They just gave it to sci ships as a compensation. To be honest i don't remember which argument they used, why sci ships have a inbuild version.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
Bad idea. Now if they actually added more space boff traits it would be nice. The existing selection is 4 (there is a 5th, but only some players have those):
Leadership = Subsystem Repair + 20 skill<- Note that with 5, you can skip spending skill point on this altogether.
Efficient = +7.5 WC effciency. <- if you have an effcient captain and spend a couple of points on this skill, it is completely pointless unless you like getting +1 or less power per boff.
Superior Romulan Operative = The current favorite, the crit boff. (Limited to tac stations for fed adding to the escorts online theme)
Subterfuge (Romulan) Infiltrator (Reman) = Cloack buff
So out of those 4, we have one cloack boff, one tac boff, and 2 engineer skill boffs. It would be nice if devs threw sci captains a nice boff with a sci trait. How about a boffs with Astrophysicist and with the same +10 bonus as the captain (like Leadership on the subsystem repair side)? I think it would balance things off for sci toons.
who said it'd use science powers? science powers are science powers last i heard....
Do you even Science Bro?
I'm curious as to why you think that?
You do realize that the following are the Skill Categories, right?
Tactical Systems
Engineering Systems
Science and Operation Systems
And further with that, then - you realize that Tactical and Engineering are part of Operations, right?
It's the reason that so much can easily appear as if it could be multiple categories.
Something that's Operations could be Tac or Eng, and since they include Operations with Sci, it could be part of Sci as well...
...Science in STO is a Cryptic fabrication. Most of it is actually Tac/Eng with some Science...which in turn, in trying to fit things in - led them to doing what they did, eh?