This may shock you, but, sometimes, we don't have time to manage to read every single post in every single subforum. As with every bug, we're sorry we didn't know about it sooner - but now that we know about it, the squishing shall commence.
Were no formal bug reports ever filed? If not then the player base should take the heat for this. I don't see the forums as the official reporting system of bugs, as much as providing community awareness to other players to avoid problems.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I found an issue that was causing the kinetic damage on GravWell 2 & 3 to not account properly for the player's Aux power. The system guys are going to update it and test it to make sure that this doesn't suddenly cause its damage output to go too high, but we will definitely fix it so that if you use GW3 with a high Aux rating, it will scale up and be better than GW1.
Edit: now that I think about it some more: Whoohoooooo! I already had that thing ticking for some 1,1-1,2k on PvE enemies. This might really give my sci some bite again...
This may shock you, but, sometimes, we don't have time to manage to read every single post in every single subforum. As with every bug, we're sorry we didn't know about it sooner - but now that we know about it, the squishing shall commence.
I thought that was the entire point of hiring Da Flake...
When I read Adjudicatorhawk's post, I thought the same thing, Bareel. Meaning no particular disrespect to either, but I'm pretty good at keeping up with the Dev Tracker, my Subscriptions, and when nothing's happening there, then the "Today's Post" link up at the top-left there... and it isn't even my job to monitor the forums.
:rolleyes:
And forget about "every single subforum" - I just wish we could see some Dev Response in the Gameplay Bug Reports section... That place is a Yellow-Name Ghost Town.
Anyway Devs, thanks for fixing (soon) GWs 2 & 3.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Was GW 1 OVERperforming/GW3 UNDERperforming? Or was GW3 UNDERperforming, and as such, GW1 will remain as it currently stands?
GW2 and GW3 were underperforming. But evaluating the performance of this ability across all ranks has caused us to tune them all, including an increase to GW1's performance under certain circumstances.
More details on those exact changes after these other questions are answered.
Will the Repel be fixed at all? Can I be modified by Graviton Generators, which currently only increase the radius by a miniscule amount?
To clarify, the fact that GravGen skill had a negligible impact on the Repel value was not a bug - this was working as designed. So making changes to that would not be a "fix" - they are tuning changes.
That said, two things are being changed:
1) Graviton Generators will have a much larger impact on the Radius of Gravity Well.
2) Graviton Generators will now effect a very small increase to the periodic Repel that the Well exerts. Although the tooltip won't show much change, it should be noticeable in practice since it's applied every second that the well exists.
Related to #2, I'm investigating getting decimals added to the Repel value on this power, so that the effects of Skill are more evident in the tooltip. No promises, though, as those figures are automatically generated. I'm not sure which part of our UI/Software controls it, or if it can be easily modified.
Is this a problem with GW itself, or the mechanic? Will other abilities that deal Exotic damage/have a Repel component be effected?
I'm unclear on your definition of "the mechanic." But I can tell you that the changes we're making to this ability will only affect Gravity Well, and nothing else.
Is this a quick bugfix that we can expect in the immediate future, or is it a more difficult bug to tackle that will take some time?
We have a revision checked in already, and are awaiting QA review. I can't make any firm promises on when these changes will go live, but I think it's safe to estimate a 2-3 week timeframe.
NOW, onto the meat of the changes being made...
* Ranks 2 and 3 now properly benefit from the user's AuxPower and Graviton Generators skill.
This means that, aside from any further tuning mentioned, these powers will see a universal increase in effectiveness for players that fly with 50+ Aux, and have any skill points in Graviton Generators.
* The Repel values of all ranks of Gravity Well can now be improved slightly with Graviton Generators skill.
The value shown on the tooltip will only change by about -1 or -2 with very high skill, but since this small change is applied every second, it will add up.
* The Radius bonus gained by Graviton Generators has been increased.
Double the previous bonus, at all ranks. Whereas it previously only granted up to 0.25km additional range, it will now extend the range by 0.5km at 100 Skill, and further if you manage to have higher skill than that.
* The amount of bonus damage that Aux Power and Particle Generators give to this power have been decreased.
This was done because they scaled too aggressively at the high end, when using GW3 with Full Aux and 150 GravGen.
** In order to offset this decrease, the base damage has been increased by a good amount across all ranks. This should result in a notable increase to baseline performance, and a decrease to high-end performance.
All of the core, unskilled damage values of Gravity Well will be getting an increase of about 40-50%. So if you never used high-Aux or high-Skill with your builds, your GravWell (all ranks) is about to become far more potent.
We reduced the multiplier that Aux applies to this core damage value. Where it previously scaled from 33%-100% multipier, it now only applies a 33%-66% multiplier. Meaning, again, that only high values will see any significant impact.
We also reduced the multiplier given by Particle Generators Skill. Attempting to give you the actual % values would be useless here because of the overall order of operations, but suffice it so say that it's been reduced. So, again, high-end users may see a decrease in the damage dealt by their Gravity Wells when combining high Skill levels with high Aux levels.
---
I hope that fills in all of the cracks for this discussion. Again, I can't confirm any sort of date that this will go live, as it has only just been sent to QA for review, and I don't know what their scheduling commitments look like right now.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
After reading that Bort, I am very impressed with the changes, and cant wait to test them.
The Repel was the biggest problem overall. When the major skill revamp occurred, the -0.51 was useless, as the heaviest of carriers was able to get out by using Evasive with 100 Engines.
The damage increase is also a nice addition. When exotic damage was converted to kinetic damage, I was strongly opposed, as kinetic damage is the most resisted damage type, with most ships having anywhere from 15-30% resist.
When exotic damage was converted to kinetic damage...
The power has always dealt Kinetic Damage. It may have, for some reason, been called something different at some point far back in the mists of time, but I can't find any record of that being the case.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The power has always dealt Kinetic Damage. It may have, for some reason, been called something different at some point far back in the mists of time, but I can't find any record of that being the case.
I thought the difference between "exotic" and other damage was just whether it came from a weapon or not? That it was always kinetic, but it was called exotic because no weapon was involved.
I thought the difference between "exotic" and other damage was just whether it came from a weapon or not? That it was always kinetic, but it was called exotic because no weapon was involved.
That's the distinction we make on the Design side of things.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
So, there's no way to expedite this fix? I'm only asking because Science has needed something like this for a long time. Now only if you guys had a dedicated team to review all the other science powers.......
I found an issue that was causing the kinetic damage on GravWell 2 & 3 to not account properly for the player's Aux power. The system guys are going to update it and test it to make sure that this doesn't suddenly cause its damage output to go too high, but we will definitely fix it so that if you use GW3 with a high Aux rating, it will scale up and be better than GW1.
So, there's no way to expedite this fix? I'm only asking because Science has needed something like this for a long time. Now only if you guys had a dedicated team to review all the other science powers.......
2 to 3 weeks is pretty fast...
We can't complain that they don't do enough Q&A on changes, and then when they put in changes and flag it for Q&A demand that we get those changes faster.
What I want to know is will the hold get any buffs anytime soon?
I have six points in grav gens and even the slowest NPCs in the game laugh at my grav well 3 and that is if they don't ignore it completely! if it can't even hold an NPC what hope does it have of holding a player?
It pushes you away. But in Grav Wells's case, the repel is negative, so instead of being pushed away from the source of the repel, you're drawn towards the source of the repel.
What I want to know is will the hold get any buffs anytime soon?
I have six points in grav gens and even the slowest NPCs in the game laugh at my grav well 3 and that is if they don't ignore it completely! if it can't even hold an NPC what hope does it have of holding a player?
At the same time, as an AoE effect that multiple players can use all at once.
So the devs always need to be careful with tweaking push/pull effects.
If 1 GW 3 can hold a player, what can 3 of them do? What about 3 of them used back to back for multi-target lockdowns? etc.
What I would like to know and see is how it interacts with Emergency power to Engines which a large number of NPCs have and now players due to changes with the skill.
Can we expect a high aux and medium to high graviton generators gravity well hold a target who uses emergency power to engines of the same rank? So EptE1 is held by high aux and grav gens gravity well 1 or is Emergency power to Engines supposed to be a hard counter to gravity wells?
Will a tactical captain who uses all of their captain ability damage buffs still get a lot more damage out of the skill or can we expect the field to be more or less level?
edit:
Actually now I've re-read the proposals it seems to me this new GW will favour a more aux battery, fire and forget type gameplay. Would there be a very significant increase in damage and hold from GW2 and 3 over GW1 which a lot of the more high tactical ability seated and damage ships can fit?
If not then it gives science ships very little of an edge being able to fit the higher level abilities and certainly less return for any ship to run full or high aux most/all of the time.
wile you guys are poking around rifts, give TR a look. because currently, it literally does nothing to players
it seems to issue energy drain stacks every second and a half, but the problem is the stacks only then last a second and a half. so, all TR does is have your energy levels flicker to about -2 and back to normal again. this even on fully flow cap buffed TR3. its the 1 ability in the game right now that quite literally does nothing.
when adjusting GW and TR though, be warry of npcs that use them. somehow, these skills are 100 times more powerful when boss npcs use them.
Will be nice for Grav Well to work better. Any chance you could look at EPTE, and remove it from npc's?
I like that they have EPTE.
I like that they move fast, and require ACC or a lot of hard controls to ball up for slaughter.
I like that it makes it harder for my escort to keep DHCs on target, and that it gives a bit of new life for my BFAW boat as the arc is much more generous and forgiving.
The main issue is, IMO, their behavior.
They scatter to the winds, probably because their original behavior never considered them moving at these speeds.
If their behavior gets fixed, they can keep EPTE and be less flighty.
I wasn't even aware that EPtE was supposed to work as a counter to gravity well or other hold effects.
Gravity Well isn't a Hold. Think of it as a Push. You are still moving at whatever speed you're moving at, but the Well pushes you into itself with each pulse.
If you're moving faster, a push has far less effect on your momentum.
It's the difference between shoving a person that's standing still and shoving a car that's moving toward you.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I like that EPtE helps you power out of it. I also like having ways of stacking hold to overcome the EPtE. I like that there are counters, and counters to the counters.
I like that EPtE helps you power out of it. I also like having ways of stacking hold to overcome the EPtE. I like that there are counters, and counters to the counters.
*zooms by on EPtE3*
What? I couldn't hear you over the roar of my FPE going at 200+ impulse speeds. Or over the Risian Corvette that just blew past me.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Comments
Were no formal bug reports ever filed? If not then the player base should take the heat for this. I don't see the forums as the official reporting system of bugs, as much as providing community awareness to other players to avoid problems.
When the fix goes to TRIBBLE, we have two major goals.
1-Test the changes and give good feedback.
2-Be wary of anti-science detractors that will cry "OMG, its OP, NERF" or some other trash to keep us down.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Awesome stuff ^^
This should be interesting...
Edit: now that I think about it some more: Whoohoooooo! I already had that thing ticking for some 1,1-1,2k on PvE enemies. This might really give my sci some bite again...
No. Read what you write man! You are saying a bug is the player's fault? Really? REALLY??!!
:rolleyes:
And forget about "every single subforum" - I just wish we could see some Dev Response in the Gameplay Bug Reports section... That place is a Yellow-Name Ghost Town.
Anyway Devs, thanks for fixing (soon) GWs 2 & 3.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
GW2 and GW3 were underperforming. But evaluating the performance of this ability across all ranks has caused us to tune them all, including an increase to GW1's performance under certain circumstances.
More details on those exact changes after these other questions are answered.
To clarify, the fact that GravGen skill had a negligible impact on the Repel value was not a bug - this was working as designed. So making changes to that would not be a "fix" - they are tuning changes.
That said, two things are being changed:
1) Graviton Generators will have a much larger impact on the Radius of Gravity Well.
2) Graviton Generators will now effect a very small increase to the periodic Repel that the Well exerts. Although the tooltip won't show much change, it should be noticeable in practice since it's applied every second that the well exists.
Related to #2, I'm investigating getting decimals added to the Repel value on this power, so that the effects of Skill are more evident in the tooltip. No promises, though, as those figures are automatically generated. I'm not sure which part of our UI/Software controls it, or if it can be easily modified.
I'm unclear on your definition of "the mechanic." But I can tell you that the changes we're making to this ability will only affect Gravity Well, and nothing else.
I'll get into a little more detail below.
We have a revision checked in already, and are awaiting QA review. I can't make any firm promises on when these changes will go live, but I think it's safe to estimate a 2-3 week timeframe.
NOW, onto the meat of the changes being made...
* Ranks 2 and 3 now properly benefit from the user's AuxPower and Graviton Generators skill.
This means that, aside from any further tuning mentioned, these powers will see a universal increase in effectiveness for players that fly with 50+ Aux, and have any skill points in Graviton Generators.
* The Repel values of all ranks of Gravity Well can now be improved slightly with Graviton Generators skill.
The value shown on the tooltip will only change by about -1 or -2 with very high skill, but since this small change is applied every second, it will add up.
* The Radius bonus gained by Graviton Generators has been increased.
Double the previous bonus, at all ranks. Whereas it previously only granted up to 0.25km additional range, it will now extend the range by 0.5km at 100 Skill, and further if you manage to have higher skill than that.
* The amount of bonus damage that Aux Power and Particle Generators give to this power have been decreased.
This was done because they scaled too aggressively at the high end, when using GW3 with Full Aux and 150 GravGen.
** In order to offset this decrease, the base damage has been increased by a good amount across all ranks. This should result in a notable increase to baseline performance, and a decrease to high-end performance.
All of the core, unskilled damage values of Gravity Well will be getting an increase of about 40-50%. So if you never used high-Aux or high-Skill with your builds, your GravWell (all ranks) is about to become far more potent.
We reduced the multiplier that Aux applies to this core damage value. Where it previously scaled from 33%-100% multipier, it now only applies a 33%-66% multiplier. Meaning, again, that only high values will see any significant impact.
We also reduced the multiplier given by Particle Generators Skill. Attempting to give you the actual % values would be useless here because of the overall order of operations, but suffice it so say that it's been reduced. So, again, high-end users may see a decrease in the damage dealt by their Gravity Wells when combining high Skill levels with high Aux levels.
---
I hope that fills in all of the cracks for this discussion. Again, I can't confirm any sort of date that this will go live, as it has only just been sent to QA for review, and I don't know what their scheduling commitments look like right now.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The Repel was the biggest problem overall. When the major skill revamp occurred, the -0.51 was useless, as the heaviest of carriers was able to get out by using Evasive with 100 Engines.
The damage increase is also a nice addition. When exotic damage was converted to kinetic damage, I was strongly opposed, as kinetic damage is the most resisted damage type, with most ships having anywhere from 15-30% resist.
The power has always dealt Kinetic Damage. It may have, for some reason, been called something different at some point far back in the mists of time, but I can't find any record of that being the case.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I thought the difference between "exotic" and other damage was just whether it came from a weapon or not? That it was always kinetic, but it was called exotic because no weapon was involved.
That's the distinction we make on the Design side of things.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Nice, thx a lot.
2 to 3 weeks is pretty fast...
We can't complain that they don't do enough Q&A on changes, and then when they put in changes and flag it for Q&A demand that we get those changes faster.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have six points in grav gens and even the slowest NPCs in the game laugh at my grav well 3 and that is if they don't ignore it completely! if it can't even hold an NPC what hope does it have of holding a player?
At the same time, as an AoE effect that multiple players can use all at once.
So the devs always need to be careful with tweaking push/pull effects.
If 1 GW 3 can hold a player, what can 3 of them do? What about 3 of them used back to back for multi-target lockdowns? etc.
Can we expect a high aux and medium to high graviton generators gravity well hold a target who uses emergency power to engines of the same rank? So EptE1 is held by high aux and grav gens gravity well 1 or is Emergency power to Engines supposed to be a hard counter to gravity wells?
Will a tactical captain who uses all of their captain ability damage buffs still get a lot more damage out of the skill or can we expect the field to be more or less level?
edit:
Actually now I've re-read the proposals it seems to me this new GW will favour a more aux battery, fire and forget type gameplay. Would there be a very significant increase in damage and hold from GW2 and 3 over GW1 which a lot of the more high tactical ability seated and damage ships can fit?
If not then it gives science ships very little of an edge being able to fit the higher level abilities and certainly less return for any ship to run full or high aux most/all of the time.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
it seems to issue energy drain stacks every second and a half, but the problem is the stacks only then last a second and a half. so, all TR does is have your energy levels flicker to about -2 and back to normal again. this even on fully flow cap buffed TR3. its the 1 ability in the game right now that quite literally does nothing.
when adjusting GW and TR though, be warry of npcs that use them. somehow, these skills are 100 times more powerful when boss npcs use them.
people seem to think it and a few other sci skills dealt something other then kinetic damage pre skill tree change. they just have a bad memory.
Thanks for the update. That was a great post, you need to be making the blogs
We won't be going that far, but we are reviewing the issue.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I like that they have EPTE.
I like that they move fast, and require ACC or a lot of hard controls to ball up for slaughter.
I like that it makes it harder for my escort to keep DHCs on target, and that it gives a bit of new life for my BFAW boat as the arc is much more generous and forgiving.
The main issue is, IMO, their behavior.
They scatter to the winds, probably because their original behavior never considered them moving at these speeds.
If their behavior gets fixed, they can keep EPTE and be less flighty.
I wasn't even aware that EPtE was supposed to work as a counter to gravity well or other hold effects.
Gravity Well isn't a Hold. Think of it as a Push. You are still moving at whatever speed you're moving at, but the Well pushes you into itself with each pulse.
If you're moving faster, a push has far less effect on your momentum.
It's the difference between shoving a person that's standing still and shoving a car that's moving toward you.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
*zooms by on EPtE3*
What? I couldn't hear you over the roar of my FPE going at 200+ impulse speeds. Or over the Risian Corvette that just blew past me.