And that works just fine for it's intended purpose, which is not an immediate, epic kill, but in combination with scatter volley and torpedo spread for controlling shuttle/mine spam and taking out destructible projectiles. Particularly effective on those ships that vomit endless streams of hyper-plasma torpedos, for example.
So the purpose is not to kill. Man I've been doing this wrong.
Actually, if I'm laying all my cards on the table (and this is a 1v1 fight), what I've tried to do is first take a run at you with CSV, FAW, and TS, otherwise unbuffed, to try and draw out your defensive buffs and make you try to tractor me.
So with CSV and TS already running you slot FAW for the single DBB. Cause those two weren't enough for the spam coming off of a single player. Right.
You keep going with that force of will thing. If you succeed you should get to work bending all the spoons in your kitchen drawers using the same. I'm guessing you won't have any trouble eating your cereal any time soon.
In the meantime you could attempt to actually play to your class and slot 2 copies of BO, use NI before or EPS in between.
Look man, I know I'm not taking it easy on you here, and you can say your build is fun and so there nananabooboo stick my head in doo doo. But this thread was started by a guy who got vaped because he didn't know what he was doing. There are things that are objectively better for PvP, sorry if it's uncomfortable, and regarding your eng/scort the category of things that are objectively better is "most." Somebody comes here to read the responses to the guy who feels helpless and they see your build, right? They take that into the queues and they'll understand exactly what the OP went through.
So the purpose is not to kill. Man I've been doing this wrong.
A brilliant troll that would make any 12 year old proud. :rolleyes:
So with CSV and TS already running you slot FAW for the single DBB. Cause those two weren't enough for the spam coming off of a single player. Right.
Did I restrict it to a single player? Or even a human player? No, I did not. I'll use it for crowd control anywhere there's a crowd. When it's a single human target, it's really just a feint with a higher firing rate.
But this thread was started by a guy who got vaped because he didn't know what he was doing.
As I do not get "vaped because I don't know what I'm doing", all of your smug little bench-testing criticisms will be balanced against this demonstrated fact.
There are things that are objectively better for PvP
I am not tailoring my build for one tiny area of the game. Nor have I ever claimed my build doesn't take a little finesse and luck to be effective. If anyone is looking for a brainless "I win" button that works every time, they should not follow my example. I like a little variety in what I can do.
Cloak on a Defiant is not a defense. When did the Defiant get a singularity core? Anyway, if you port that build to a warbird you won't be alive long enough to generate singularity levels.
So other than PH you have no tractor immunity. Do you understand how defense works?
And without APO you are tossing out unbuffed BO and HYT. You would have to crit my T'Varo with both of those to pop it, and I'm not even sure that would do it. You have a buff for every weapon but none to stack.
So you can't clear EWP, Theta, plasma procs... So you just eat dots. And get held.
Yeah, you get a kill on a double crit. That's success?
Are you trolling? Because you've identified multiple things most people agree are bread and butter on any ship (APO, HE, tac buff stacking, damage resists) and said they're not important. And you say you use FAW with a single DBB. Are you taking the TRIBBLE?
Countering you requires TT, EPTS. Killing you requires TB.
You can talk vaguely about how you "can take advantage of varied openings" but I don't know what opening FAW from a DBB can take advantage of. To me, an opening is seeing somebody use sci team. It's a big blue "Hey look at my buff bars" sign. If PH isn't up, you're dead because I'm stopping you and spiking. If it is, I'll check the time. Less than 15 seconds? I'll wait. That's an opening.
Seriously, did I just get trolled? Are you pretending to actually defend this engscort because you're making fun of the OP?
Yeah, I'm looking at this guy's build. . .and he would be a prime target for a de-cloak alphastrike from my Fleet Norgh. I'd be watching and noticing that he's only running one copy of TT on a Defiant with no RSP or any big resist-buff beyond polarize hull (not a big enough resist buff to ward off an attack), and I would see huge gaping holes in his defenses I could exploit with a big alphastrike. This is the kind of guy I would blow up again and again with my less-than-perfect de-cloak alphastrikes, and then have to listen to him QQ.
I was thinking about creating an all Mirror Universe tournament. Along the same lines. Mirror Universe ships are easy to come by.
As for a tier 3 tournament with VA gear we did some testing and the ships couldn't really hold up against VA powers and weapons. Everything goes Pop very fast.
lol, you should have been been in the shuttle pvp event Branflakes ran awhile back that was interesting.
excerpts from ^ match aboard the I.K.S. Bitty Bit commanded by Nirza (sexy orion tac :P)
*1st officer - captain a target rich enviroment
*Captain - prep the Chroniton beam overload, ready the Hargh'Peng torpedo
*1st officer - yes, captain
*Capatin - FIRE
*1st officer - captain target down selecting another
*Captain - Fire on targets of opportunity
*1st officer - 5 more targets destroyed captain
*1st officer - captain i'm detecting multiple torpedo spreads targeting us
*Captain - full speed, engage evasive maneuvers and the subspace modulator, run you fool run and don't engage the cloak
*1st officer - yes, captain cloak engaged
*Capatin - Fool you just killed us........BOOM
In the end, fun is what is important. There's no arguing with that. Folks can argue left, right, down the middle, back again about various things - but they can't tell you that you're not having fun when you're having fun.
I can't picture dropping the Omega at point-blank, mind you...lol. It's almost a 100% guarantee that the following happens:
1) It doesn't crit on them. The DoT doesn't crit on them. They wiggle their wings at me in mockery.
2) It does crit on me. The DoT does crit on me. I'm watching them wiggle their wings at me in mockery while waiting on the respawn.
[System] [Default] Willard the Rat has died.
And fun is the reason I decided to make a dedicated rainbow build over a year ago. I like to think that getting first in the CE event more than once says something about how good mine is.
'If they build it' has been hampering the game since the beginning. With the new gaming consoles coming out I don't know if i'l ever have the motivation to get my gear up to pvp standards. Have fun guys and good luck convincing cryptic to understand the importance of PVP in modern games.
Its dead in some ways because it is repetitive as PvE and rep grinds. There are few successful builds, there are few tactics that are all that effective and PvP is either a 5v5 blood match with no real objective that limits some skill and play sets or seldom used Cap and Hold. Really the C&H dilithium rewards should be twice the arena because of time waiting for a Q and the time in game. OR give double dilithium for a random joining of PvP and getting put in what ever comes up next. If you pick your match type then you get less reward.
More PvP game types are needed, maps not so much.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I run 2xDHC, 1xDBB, 1xOmega Torpedo, 1xturret, 1xCutting Beam, and 1xWeb mine, and I am able to buff all but the mine launcher in two different ways.
Because of the Tac officer layout on my Fleet Defiant, I am able to buff them with:
BO3
CRF3
HY3
DPB1
CSV1
BFAW1
TS1
And still have room for one copy of Tactical Team. I like a variety of attacks, so that I can take advantage of varied openings, and countering me requires varied defenses.
Part of the reason pvp is dead is because people take engscort fail builds like this into queues and leave their team basically down 1 person. Its actually even worse then being down 1 player since builds like that will blow up a lot and give other team free kills. It wouldn't be so bad if people like this guy could actually use the criticism to improve his build or even better just throwing it out and starting over instead of trying and failing to defend it.
At least its not the worse engscort build I have seen though. I am sure others here have dreaded getting this other engscort guy on we have been seeing in queues a lot lately on their team, his name starts with a "B". He runs a free advanced escort with beam arrays and torps and uses epte2 and other movement buffs and runs whenever he takes the slightest damage. He does no damage, doesn't heal others, and even worse since he runs so much doesn't do the main thing that makes engs somewhat useful, soak up damage.
only have seen 2 engscorts that aren't a liability to the team lately thats because they can still do decent damage and hardly need cross heals, but its hard to do effectively so not recommended for most.
Instead of flaming him, you could either not reply or simply give your reasons why his build may or may not be good.
Try and be constructive rather than troll
You obviously haven't met decent engineers that can out DPS and out tank Tacs and run them down
You're right. OK here goes.
I'm going to list some things that I think are necessary for either survival or killing in any build.
1. Passive resistance
2. Active resistance
3. Debuff cleanse
4. Hold immunity
5. TT
6. A hold
7. Spike damage
Clearly passive resistance has 100% uptime. For the rest of these the effectiveness of the build will depend greatly on the availability or uptime of each of these. The closer you get to always having high resists the longer you will live. The closer you get to always having a cleanse available the longer you will live.
1. The build does not have sufficient passive resistance in the form of neuts or a resilient shield.
2. The build has 1 copy of PH. It might have 1 copy of EPTS. It might have 1 copy of Aux2Sif. That's insufficient uptime for active resists even with RSF.
3. No HE.
4. 1 copy of PH. No APO. This build will be held, and with the lack of resists it will die without a def score.
5. This build has only 1 copy of TT. That's not enough uptime, especially with the lack of shield resists.
6. No hold or any way to reduce the targets def score aside from web mines.
7. No way to stack tac buffs. No APO.
Those are general points it violates. Specifically, FAW with 1 DBB is derp. Specifically, the 1 thing an eng/scort could reliably do is a doubletap BO with CRF running due to NI and EPS, which this build does not. Specifically, again, the lack of APO is criminal. Specifically, he says he will rely on photonic displacement to escape, yet if that clicky with a long cd is unavailable or simply fails due to a perceptive enemy the fundamentals are not there to survive actually getting hit.
Did I restrict it to a single player? Or even a human player? No, I did not. I'll use it for crowd control anywhere there's a crowd. When it's a single human target, it's really just a feint with a higher firing rate.
Actually, if I'm laying all my cards on the table (and this is a 1v1 fight), what I've tried to do is first take a run at you with CSV, FAW, and TS, otherwise unbuffed, to try and draw out your defensive buffs and make you try to tractor me.
Yeah, you did.
Specifically the idea of FAW from a DBB as a feint is pants on head. A feint is an unbuffed BO/CRF/HYT, (you know, the only kind this build can throw down), which gets a target to activate buffs, which is followed by a full on buffed BO/CRF/HYT once the targets defensive buffs are on cd.
Now, those 7 points are things I just tossed off as being generally good ideas. What's your playbook? What general principles give objective value to your build? Because by every measure I use it doesn't cut it.
Part of the reason pvp is dead is because people take engscort fail builds like this into queues and leave their team basically down 1 person. Its actually even worse then being down 1 player since builds like that will blow up a lot and give other team free kills. It wouldn't be so bad if people like this guy could actually use the criticism to improve his build or even better just throwing it out and starting over instead of trying and failing to defend it.
At least its not the worse engscort build I have seen though. I am sure others here have dreaded getting this other engscort guy on we have been seeing in queues a lot lately on their team, his name starts with a "B". He runs a free advanced escort with beam arrays and torps and uses epte2 and other movement buffs and runs whenever he takes the slightest damage. He does no damage, doesn't heal others, and even worse since he runs so much doesn't do the main thing that makes engs somewhat useful, soak up damage.
only have seen 2 engscorts that aren't a liability to the team lately thats because they can still do decent damage and hardly need cross heals, but its hard to do effectively so not recommended for most.
That's part of the reason (only a small part though), its more like they get wiped out and don't come back, rather than learning how it all works.
The main reason though is very apparent at the moment, its premades going into queues and spamming and cheesing the match so badly its not even funny.
Its never really that fun or interesting going against most premades because the end result is a given, so what's the point?
None whatsoever.
Its not a challenge, its certainly not fun if you stand zero chance of winning.
To throw on top of that, the said premades using every bit of OP, spam and cheese going (you know, all the stuff disallowed in private and league matches), whilst thinking its perfectly fair and acceptable against a team of randoms who are lucky to even get a heal boat.
A lot of my friends list don't even PvP anymore because of this very fact, some of which are in fleets that are known as being very very good in PvP circles, yet they have pulled out for the most part because they are sick of other PvP fleets abusing broken doffs, consoles and generally using OP equipment in multiples (some even as far as hax, you know who you are).
Specifically the idea of FAW from a DBB as a feint is pants on head. A feint is an unbuffed BO/CRF/HYT,.
More narrow thinking.
I need the sound of a buff, to counter those cheeky monkeys who think it's cute to listen for cloaked ships hitting their buffs so they can trigger all of their defenses.
I need the sound of a buff, to counter those cheeky monkeys who think it's cute to listen for cloaked ships hitting their buffs so they can trigger all of their defenses.
I must be getting trolled, nobody could actually post this response with a straight face. FAW from a single DBB is bone-headed. Saying all you need is the sound ignores the fact that you could activate BO and achieve the same sound while not gimping your build.
And you conveniently ignore the rest of my post. What is important for an effective build? I've been called out for being uncivil with you, and fairly, so in response I've made my case for a realistic set of expectations for a PvP build in LoR. Do you have any logic behind your build? Any source of effectiveness beyond your personal "force of will"?
Or if you can't come up with any reasoning behind your build, why don't you take the 7 things I listed and tell me why they're not important?
I must be getting trolled, nobody could actually post this response with a straight face. FAW from a single DBB is bone-headed. Saying all you need is the sound ignores the fact that you could activate BO and achieve the same sound while not gimping your build.
And you conveniently ignore the rest of my post. What is important for an effective build? I've been called out for being uncivil with you, and fairly, so in response I've made my case for a realistic set of expectations for a PvP build in LoR. Do you have any logic behind your build? Any source of effectiveness beyond your personal "force of will"?
Or if you can't come up with any reasoning behind your build, why don't you take the 7 things I listed and tell me why they're not important?
All I'm getting from posts like yours is the arrogant presumption that there is only one right way to play the game, that you have found it and your burden is enlightening the ignorant rubes. :rolleyes: I've been playing this game for years, I know exactly what I give up to have what I want, and you are only projecting your own limitations to dismiss it out of hand because you're unable to conceive of any tactic that puts it all to good use.
I've already got beam overload. I don't want two copies of anything. That bores me. DPS grinder boats bore me. They BORE ME. Do you understand yet? PvP DPS is not the be-all, end-all of the entire game. It's actually a tiny, miniscule, insignificant fraction of the game.
My requirements are a group of attack buffs (all weapons) to attach one target, and a group for covering multiple targets. I want to be able to use all weapons in both firing modes. Following the advice in this thread would not serve that goal.
Yes, one dual beam bank isn't terribly useful for fire at will alone, though it'll sometimes take out a mine/torpedo/shuttle. The main reason I keep that Antiproton DBB (Mk XI purple) is for that one beam overload, with the two Mk XII purple DHCs picking up the rest of the slack.
Your list:
1. The build does not have sufficient passive resistance in the form of neuts or a resilient shield.
I run a MK XII Adapted MACO shield for the higher capacity that is better suited to a hit-and-run escort.
If "neuts" is a lazy way of typing Neutronium Alloy, I used to run that, but now I don't have the space. I want every single one of those universal consoles I have.
2. The build has 1 copy of PH. It might have 1 copy of EPTS. It might have 1 copy of Aux2Sif. That's insufficient uptime for active resists even with RSF.
Polarize Hull yes, emergency power to shields and Aux to Structural Integrity no. I insist on a shield heal, the Engineer BO skills are used up with Eng Team and EptE, and Science Team clears other effects on top of healing shields.
3. No HE.
I'd run it if I didn't have to give up something else I wanted. Again, I have only Lt slots for Eng and Sci, and those will be taken up by Polarize Hull (for tractors), Science Team (shield heal), Emergency Power to Engines (hit and run, remember), and Engineering Team (hull heal).
If you can find a way to add Hazard Emitters without sacrificing any of those abilities, I am all ears. But I require the ability to heal myself. I don't have the crutch of a premade team to rely on.
4. 1 copy of PH. No APO. This build will be held, and with the lack of resists it will die without a def score.
5. This build has only 1 copy of TT. That's not enough uptime, especially with the lack of shield resists.
7. No way to stack tac buffs. No APO.
Still space considerations. You want to pretend that one copy of FAW is useless, but that requires you disregard those things I do use it for.
6. No hold or any way to reduce the targets def score aside from web mines.
The web mines will have to do. I'm not running that worthless Borg shield or giving up a more valuable Sci ability for a stupid tractor beam. The web mines will have to do.
So i decide to try out pvp. this game's pvp has reached a tipping point. You either really really have, or you really really dont. and theres nothing that can really be done to save it. its to specialized. the feeling i get, as a new pvper, is you have no chance in hell of ever getting better, there is no learning curve. you are just here so us leet veterans have a target to practice on. My experience is so bad thats im never trying it again. ever. cryptic could dangle a three pack of scimitar ships in front of me, and id tell them where they can shove their TRIBBLE.
ok ill leave now so everyone can tell me how bad i am, or learn to fly. and i wont read a word of it. Just wanting you to have feedback, of why ill never pvp again.
TL;DR the learning curve in pvp is too brutal. to ever get the pvp community to grow, soften it.
The OP here is right on many points
players win records
ship
equipment on ship
Doffs
all have to be assignd point valuses assigned to them
and matches fought based on these values
A Elite PvP player with all the best might be worth in points 5 new players in point value
Its the only way to make pvp Fun and Fair to all
On another note PvP and PvE must be seperated into seperate games , its impossible to balence both together
Point" beam overload is now useless again in PvE to make a balence pass for PvP
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Hrmm, perhaps it would help folks looking at that build to think of it in this light:
Fly around cloaked, waiting - watching what others are doing - waiting until somebody is vulnerable - decloak, maybe kill them - maybe not...run away as fast as possible and try to recloak.
Against the potentially average Fed PUG in a FvF match...it might work - might work well.
If you've got five folks that are spamming their buffs, leaving huge gaps, not paying attention in the least to what's going on around them...then it might work well. So yeah, in that average Fed PUG FvF match...
Well, yeah. It's not tactically sound to let your opponent dictate the terms of the fight. You hit him when he's weak and you're strong. Measuring things in the context of "pistols at dawn, twenty paces, turn and fire" is stupid and pointless.
Well, yeah. It's not tactically sound to let your opponent dictate the terms of the fight. You hit him when he's weak and you're strong. Measuring things in the context of "pistols at dawn, twenty paces, turn and fire" is stupid and pointless.
The OP is at the point I was at about 9 months ago.
I fully understand everything he is saying, cause I along with a lot of other people, have been there.
Two peices of advice...
1: Yes, you HAVE to get rep stuff, there is no way around it. 2 peice assimilated borg (deflector and engine) and the MACO shield or an elite fleet shield if you can get it.
2: Keep. Moving.
I can't stress point two enough, in PVP arena you HAVE to keep moving. Many, many times i have seen cruisers and in some cases escorts just sit there all still and pound away at the target, you sit still for too long, you are dead. Keep. Moving.
My romulan character only has T3 in Nukara, Omega and Rom rep, its only using the old Aegis 3 peice set i bought from the exchange, and with liberal use of the battlecloak it does alright. When i started PVP though in my Excelsior (cstore version before i got the fleet version) with Aegis set, it got wailed on, constantly.
That was nine months ago. about 7 months ago i finished Omega rep, got the borg 2 peice and maco shield, and THATS when things started to change.
The bar has been set too high in PVP. Its not the players fault, they are only using what the DEVELOPERS gave them.
Another smaller peice of advice. Go into Kerrat. It's usually quiet, when it is you can kill borg and farm ec's from them (ignore the "mission" just kill borg) and now and again you can get killed by klingons ganking you. The longer you survive against a klingon, the better you can do in arena pvp.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
I gave up on PVP a little after F2P started. The writing was on the wall when the bug ship came out, and it has got increasingly worse as each lockbox was released.
The only way they could save PVP now, is if all lockbox/special consoles/Doffs were banned from it, but even then, I seriously doubt that would be enough...
That of course, would need Cryptic/PWE to give up on the guaranteed money stream from PVPer's buying the stuff to stay competitive. Something we wont see for sure....
2a: Like the fictional Romulan Admiral's quote in (I think) the rotating loading screen text, if you're in an escort, "Your default status is cloaked."
Comments
You keep going with that force of will thing. If you succeed you should get to work bending all the spoons in your kitchen drawers using the same. I'm guessing you won't have any trouble eating your cereal any time soon.
In the meantime you could attempt to actually play to your class and slot 2 copies of BO, use NI before or EPS in between.
Look man, I know I'm not taking it easy on you here, and you can say your build is fun and so there nananabooboo stick my head in doo doo. But this thread was started by a guy who got vaped because he didn't know what he was doing. There are things that are objectively better for PvP, sorry if it's uncomfortable, and regarding your eng/scort the category of things that are objectively better is "most." Somebody comes here to read the responses to the guy who feels helpless and they see your build, right? They take that into the queues and they'll understand exactly what the OP went through.
A brilliant troll that would make any 12 year old proud. :rolleyes:
Did I restrict it to a single player? Or even a human player? No, I did not. I'll use it for crowd control anywhere there's a crowd. When it's a single human target, it's really just a feint with a higher firing rate.
As I do not get "vaped because I don't know what I'm doing", all of your smug little bench-testing criticisms will be balanced against this demonstrated fact.
I am not tailoring my build for one tiny area of the game. Nor have I ever claimed my build doesn't take a little finesse and luck to be effective. If anyone is looking for a brainless "I win" button that works every time, they should not follow my example. I like a little variety in what I can do.
Yeah, I'm looking at this guy's build. . .and he would be a prime target for a de-cloak alphastrike from my Fleet Norgh. I'd be watching and noticing that he's only running one copy of TT on a Defiant with no RSP or any big resist-buff beyond polarize hull (not a big enough resist buff to ward off an attack), and I would see huge gaping holes in his defenses I could exploit with a big alphastrike. This is the kind of guy I would blow up again and again with my less-than-perfect de-cloak alphastrikes, and then have to listen to him QQ.
It certainly helped me rather than Go Rainbow and enduring the wrath of 'Wtf' from fellow PVE players lol
End of Discussion
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Sorry I missed that
lol, you should have been been in the shuttle pvp event Branflakes ran awhile back that was interesting.
excerpts from ^ match aboard the I.K.S. Bitty Bit commanded by Nirza (sexy orion tac :P)
*1st officer - captain a target rich enviroment
*Captain - prep the Chroniton beam overload, ready the Hargh'Peng torpedo
*1st officer - yes, captain
*Capatin - FIRE
*1st officer - captain target down selecting another
*Captain - Fire on targets of opportunity
*1st officer - 5 more targets destroyed captain
*1st officer - captain i'm detecting multiple torpedo spreads targeting us
*Captain - full speed, engage evasive maneuvers and the subspace modulator, run you fool run and don't engage the cloak
*1st officer - yes, captain cloak engaged
*Capatin - Fool you just killed us........BOOM
and so it went quite fun actually
My character Tsin'xing
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Twitter:
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More PvP game types are needed, maps not so much.
Part of the reason pvp is dead is because people take engscort fail builds like this into queues and leave their team basically down 1 person. Its actually even worse then being down 1 player since builds like that will blow up a lot and give other team free kills. It wouldn't be so bad if people like this guy could actually use the criticism to improve his build or even better just throwing it out and starting over instead of trying and failing to defend it.
At least its not the worse engscort build I have seen though. I am sure others here have dreaded getting this other engscort guy on we have been seeing in queues a lot lately on their team, his name starts with a "B". He runs a free advanced escort with beam arrays and torps and uses epte2 and other movement buffs and runs whenever he takes the slightest damage. He does no damage, doesn't heal others, and even worse since he runs so much doesn't do the main thing that makes engs somewhat useful, soak up damage.
only have seen 2 engscorts that aren't a liability to the team lately thats because they can still do decent damage and hardly need cross heals, but its hard to do effectively so not recommended for most.
I'm going to list some things that I think are necessary for either survival or killing in any build.
1. Passive resistance
2. Active resistance
3. Debuff cleanse
4. Hold immunity
5. TT
6. A hold
7. Spike damage
Clearly passive resistance has 100% uptime. For the rest of these the effectiveness of the build will depend greatly on the availability or uptime of each of these. The closer you get to always having high resists the longer you will live. The closer you get to always having a cleanse available the longer you will live.
1. The build does not have sufficient passive resistance in the form of neuts or a resilient shield.
2. The build has 1 copy of PH. It might have 1 copy of EPTS. It might have 1 copy of Aux2Sif. That's insufficient uptime for active resists even with RSF.
3. No HE.
4. 1 copy of PH. No APO. This build will be held, and with the lack of resists it will die without a def score.
5. This build has only 1 copy of TT. That's not enough uptime, especially with the lack of shield resists.
6. No hold or any way to reduce the targets def score aside from web mines.
7. No way to stack tac buffs. No APO.
Those are general points it violates. Specifically, FAW with 1 DBB is derp. Specifically, the 1 thing an eng/scort could reliably do is a doubletap BO with CRF running due to NI and EPS, which this build does not. Specifically, again, the lack of APO is criminal. Specifically, he says he will rely on photonic displacement to escape, yet if that clicky with a long cd is unavailable or simply fails due to a perceptive enemy the fundamentals are not there to survive actually getting hit.
Specifically: Yeah, you did.
Specifically the idea of FAW from a DBB as a feint is pants on head. A feint is an unbuffed BO/CRF/HYT, (you know, the only kind this build can throw down), which gets a target to activate buffs, which is followed by a full on buffed BO/CRF/HYT once the targets defensive buffs are on cd.
Now, those 7 points are things I just tossed off as being generally good ideas. What's your playbook? What general principles give objective value to your build? Because by every measure I use it doesn't cut it.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Second major error you've typed. First was the singularity on the defiant.
So how about a 1v1? I'd love to test my unorthodox dps vesta against an unorthodox defiant.
Do you even Science Bro?
Actually, that wasn't an error. Quantum singularity manipulation is the name of the t5 Romulan power.
Ah my mistake then.
Do you even Science Bro?
No, that's Cryptic's mistake..ahem..just what Quantum Singularity are we manipulating? :cool:
That's part of the reason (only a small part though), its more like they get wiped out and don't come back, rather than learning how it all works.
The main reason though is very apparent at the moment, its premades going into queues and spamming and cheesing the match so badly its not even funny.
Its never really that fun or interesting going against most premades because the end result is a given, so what's the point?
None whatsoever.
Its not a challenge, its certainly not fun if you stand zero chance of winning.
To throw on top of that, the said premades using every bit of OP, spam and cheese going (you know, all the stuff disallowed in private and league matches), whilst thinking its perfectly fair and acceptable against a team of randoms who are lucky to even get a heal boat.
A lot of my friends list don't even PvP anymore because of this very fact, some of which are in fleets that are known as being very very good in PvP circles, yet they have pulled out for the most part because they are sick of other PvP fleets abusing broken doffs, consoles and generally using OP equipment in multiples (some even as far as hax, you know who you are).
More narrow thinking.
I need the sound of a buff, to counter those cheeky monkeys who think it's cute to listen for cloaked ships hitting their buffs so they can trigger all of their defenses.
And you conveniently ignore the rest of my post. What is important for an effective build? I've been called out for being uncivil with you, and fairly, so in response I've made my case for a realistic set of expectations for a PvP build in LoR. Do you have any logic behind your build? Any source of effectiveness beyond your personal "force of will"?
Or if you can't come up with any reasoning behind your build, why don't you take the 7 things I listed and tell me why they're not important?
And the power creep is starting to make it feel like that in PVE too.
All I'm getting from posts like yours is the arrogant presumption that there is only one right way to play the game, that you have found it and your burden is enlightening the ignorant rubes. :rolleyes: I've been playing this game for years, I know exactly what I give up to have what I want, and you are only projecting your own limitations to dismiss it out of hand because you're unable to conceive of any tactic that puts it all to good use.
I've already got beam overload. I don't want two copies of anything. That bores me. DPS grinder boats bore me. They BORE ME. Do you understand yet? PvP DPS is not the be-all, end-all of the entire game. It's actually a tiny, miniscule, insignificant fraction of the game.
My requirements are a group of attack buffs (all weapons) to attach one target, and a group for covering multiple targets. I want to be able to use all weapons in both firing modes. Following the advice in this thread would not serve that goal.
Yes, one dual beam bank isn't terribly useful for fire at will alone, though it'll sometimes take out a mine/torpedo/shuttle. The main reason I keep that Antiproton DBB (Mk XI purple) is for that one beam overload, with the two Mk XII purple DHCs picking up the rest of the slack.
Your list:
I run a MK XII Adapted MACO shield for the higher capacity that is better suited to a hit-and-run escort.
If "neuts" is a lazy way of typing Neutronium Alloy, I used to run that, but now I don't have the space. I want every single one of those universal consoles I have.
Polarize Hull yes, emergency power to shields and Aux to Structural Integrity no. I insist on a shield heal, the Engineer BO skills are used up with Eng Team and EptE, and Science Team clears other effects on top of healing shields.
I'd run it if I didn't have to give up something else I wanted. Again, I have only Lt slots for Eng and Sci, and those will be taken up by Polarize Hull (for tractors), Science Team (shield heal), Emergency Power to Engines (hit and run, remember), and Engineering Team (hull heal).
If you can find a way to add Hazard Emitters without sacrificing any of those abilities, I am all ears. But I require the ability to heal myself. I don't have the crutch of a premade team to rely on.
Still space considerations. You want to pretend that one copy of FAW is useless, but that requires you disregard those things I do use it for.
The web mines will have to do. I'm not running that worthless Borg shield or giving up a more valuable Sci ability for a stupid tractor beam. The web mines will have to do.
The OP here is right on many points
players win records
ship
equipment on ship
Doffs
all have to be assignd point valuses assigned to them
and matches fought based on these values
A Elite PvP player with all the best might be worth in points 5 new players in point value
Its the only way to make pvp Fun and Fair to all
On another note PvP and PvE must be seperated into seperate games , its impossible to balence both together
Point" beam overload is now useless again in PvE to make a balence pass for PvP
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Fly around cloaked, waiting - watching what others are doing - waiting until somebody is vulnerable - decloak, maybe kill them - maybe not...run away as fast as possible and try to recloak.
Against the potentially average Fed PUG in a FvF match...it might work - might work well.
If you've got five folks that are spamming their buffs, leaving huge gaps, not paying attention in the least to what's going on around them...then it might work well. So yeah, in that average Fed PUG FvF match...
so a match? :P
Do you even Science Bro?
I fully understand everything he is saying, cause I along with a lot of other people, have been there.
Two peices of advice...
1: Yes, you HAVE to get rep stuff, there is no way around it. 2 peice assimilated borg (deflector and engine) and the MACO shield or an elite fleet shield if you can get it.
2: Keep. Moving.
I can't stress point two enough, in PVP arena you HAVE to keep moving. Many, many times i have seen cruisers and in some cases escorts just sit there all still and pound away at the target, you sit still for too long, you are dead. Keep. Moving.
My romulan character only has T3 in Nukara, Omega and Rom rep, its only using the old Aegis 3 peice set i bought from the exchange, and with liberal use of the battlecloak it does alright. When i started PVP though in my Excelsior (cstore version before i got the fleet version) with Aegis set, it got wailed on, constantly.
That was nine months ago. about 7 months ago i finished Omega rep, got the borg 2 peice and maco shield, and THATS when things started to change.
The bar has been set too high in PVP. Its not the players fault, they are only using what the DEVELOPERS gave them.
Another smaller peice of advice. Go into Kerrat. It's usually quiet, when it is you can kill borg and farm ec's from them (ignore the "mission" just kill borg) and now and again you can get killed by klingons ganking you. The longer you survive against a klingon, the better you can do in arena pvp.
The only way they could save PVP now, is if all lockbox/special consoles/Doffs were banned from it, but even then, I seriously doubt that would be enough...
That of course, would need Cryptic/PWE to give up on the guaranteed money stream from PVPer's buying the stuff to stay competitive. Something we wont see for sure....
Seconded. Also:
2a: Like the fictional Romulan Admiral's quote in (I think) the rotating loading screen text, if you're in an escort, "Your default status is cloaked."
Happily, if one day we're online at the same time.
YAY! :P now if only....
Do you even Science Bro?