Too much DPS in the game. Min/Max has been allowed to run unchecked for too long. It is up to the development staff to test combinations and limit how high something can stack and also how it interacts with other skills.
Min-maxing is inevitable in any game where players get to choose their character stats.
In D2X, the hardcore PVPers would usually cram their inventory with charms. Why? well you don't get item drops in pvp anyways so why not? It was especially common with +resist, and +hp charms, though +cold damage came up often too. Why? well, it would add cold damage and a chill duration to attacks that otherwise lacked them. Chilled chars would move and attack slower.
I loved using a +cold damage charm as a trap assassn. I wonder if they "fixed" the way those worked with traps.
@Hanover: mixing Cannon, Beam, Torpedo, AND Mine skills? O_O'
No, it's not another boring 4xDHC/3xTurret/all energy weapon tac consoles, cookie cutter DPScort. Sue me.
This is what we know (or surmise where iffy) about your build (yes, with pretty colors - which is pretty much the standard way that BOFF layouts are laid out for ease of reading)...
Reputation
New Rom - Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation
Nukara - Fortified Hull, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense, Refracting Tetryon Cascade
Omega - Hull-Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
You've got 5 Tac, 3 Eng, and 2 Sci Consoles...from those available slots, you've told us you've got the following:
Cloak, Photonic Displacement, Borg, 0Point, Nukara. That's 5 of the 10 gone. So the odds are you've cut into your Tac Consoles pretty heavily...though, who really knows at this point.
You're sporting 2pc Borg...though which 2 pieces is unknown.
What exactly does it work for...? Trolling folks on the forums?
It works for dealing spike damage and escaping before I die, with minor secondary roles at crowd/shuttle spam control. DPS is not optimized, but I find "DPS above all else" to be useless if you don't stay alive to keep the pressure on. *shrug*
As for the Borg sets, I have the Mk XII engine and deflector, as well as the torpedo/cutting beam/console combo. The Borg shield is TRIBBLE, though. I run the Mk XII Adapted Maco instead.
Console distribution: Fleet Defiant, so 3xEng, 2xSci, 5xTac.
Tac slots are used exclusively for tac consoles. All those universal consoles are taking up my Sci and Eng slots.
It works for dealing spike damage and escaping before I die, with minor secondary roles at crowd/shuttle spam control. DPS is not optimized, but I find "DPS above all else" to be useless if you don't stay alive to keep the pressure on. *shrug*
As for the Borg sets, I have the Mk XII engine and deflector, as well as the torpedo/cutting beam/console combo. The Borg shield is TRIBBLE, though. I run the Mk XII Adapted Maco instead.
Console distribution: Fleet Defiant, so 3xEng, 2xSci, 5xTac.
Tac slots are used exclusively for tac consoles. All those universal consoles are taking up my Sci and Eng slots.
I would personally feel that it was rather squishy, as you don't actually have any actual damage resist besides RSFand PH. Not to mention the universal consoles taking up console slots minimises your base hull resist. All you have is speed-based defense.
Your prime weakness would probably be whatever is cleared by Hazard Emitters. EWP would be like kryptonite where you are concerned, since you lack both the HE and the APO that most use to deal with it. Heals are also fairly iffy besides MW, since your only BoFF ones are ST and ET, which share a cooldown. Alpha strikes may also give you a headache, as TT will have to be used to redistribute shields, and that will lock out your heals, forcing you to retreat to recover.
All in all, a very "glass cannon" type of build, which may be partially compensated for by the Eng captain, but not really recommended for anyone new.
It's also something of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none, as only one of your buff cycles is single-target focused - which will mean a kill is unlikely. More than one buff cycle is definitely needed to kill anyone capable, unless the person has just been subnuked or you are extremely tac-buffed - which are both unlikely. Put simply, your build has almost no synergy between abilities, which is a hallmark of good builds.
It works for dealing spike damage and escaping before I die, with minor secondary roles at crowd/shuttle spam control. DPS is not optimized, but I find "DPS above all else" to be useless if you don't stay alive to keep the pressure on. *shrug*
But if you retreat, it doesn't help to keep pressure on either. Retreating and dying are practically the same thing in an Arena, as players typically fully heal up in 30 seconds at most. A little off, don't you think? Besides, there are better setups that allow you to better stay in the fight and deal similar amounts of damage. So yeah......you might be able to make it work, but I think there are slightly more focused builds that would do better.
I don't think it even needs a "classic" build...but then again, I fly flaky stuff. There's just some core things that are missing that (imho) create issues.
APO/HE being the main two, as you pointed out.
APO offers +Damage, +Damage Resistance, +Defense, +Speed, +Turn, +Movement Debuff Immunity, +Disable Immunity...that's a lot to give up on a ship that not only could run APO1 but could actually run APO3. As an Eng, he doesn't have the APA3 for the +50% damage...and he's further giving up the APO3 for the +25% damage. I'm not sure where the "spike" damage is coming from.
The lack of the cleanse from HE just leaves somebody open to far too much (imho).
You mentioned his heals with ET/ST...but he's also sporting TT. Three team abilities on a ship that's sorely lacking non-Tac BOFFs...that kind of makes me drool thinking about it. It's so easy to put somebody in a position where they would need TT/ET/ST all at the same time - they've got to pick one, lock themselves out of the other two and not have anything else that can help out in the interim.
There's a lot of room between what's there and his hate for the cookie cutter build... (heh, I'm not fond of those builds either).
I don't think it even needs a "classic" build...but then again, I fly flaky stuff. There's just some core things that are missing that (imho) create issues.
APO/HE being the main two, as you pointed out.
APO offers +Damage, +Damage Resistance, +Defense, +Speed, +Turn, +Movement Debuff Immunity, +Disable Immunity...that's a lot to give up on a ship that not only could run APO1 but could actually run APO3. As an Eng, he doesn't have the APA3 for the +50% damage...and he's further giving up the APO3 for the +25% damage. I'm not sure where the "spike" damage is coming from.
The lack of the cleanse from HE just leaves somebody open to far too much (imho).
You mentioned his heals with ET/ST...but he's also sporting TT. Three team abilities on a ship that's sorely lacking non-Tac BOFFs...that kind of makes me drool thinking about it. It's so easy to put somebody in a position where they would need TT/ET/ST all at the same time - they've got to pick one, lock themselves out of the other two and not have anything else that can help out in the interim.
There's a lot of room between what's there and his hate for the cookie cutter build... (heh, I'm not fond of those builds either).
Yeah, I noted the heal lockout. He could certainly do something different from the cookie cutter, but his current one is really a hit or miss. Edited to remove reference to cookie cutters, since I kinda forgot that he plain doesn't want that.
Plus subspace field generator, cloak, quantum singularity manipulation and photonic displacement. You're looking at it too narrowly.
It's also something of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none
This is deliberate. I want a variety of attacks, and a buff for every weapon. I don't have room for (or interest in) attack pattern omega. I don't spend skill points on attack patterns.
But if you retreat, it doesn't help to keep pressure on either.
I very often get back in the fight faster than a respawn timer.
I'm not giving up science team or polarize hull so I can have hazard emitters.
I'm not sure where the "spike" damage is coming from.
Mostly from BO3 on the Antiproton Dual Beam Bank, and HY3 on the Omega torpedo, ideally with the decloaking attack bonus. It admittedly depends on critical chance, but you're not taking into account all the critical bonuses I get from various things. I choose that one in a million beautiful kill over a reliable DPS grind.
It's so easy to put somebody in a position where they would need TT/ET/ST all at the same time - they've got to pick one, lock themselves out of the other two and not have anything else that can help out in the interim.
I can deal with the fifteen second lockout. You're making it sound like a deal-killer when it's not.
Plus subspace field generator, cloak, quantum singularity manipulation and photonic displacement. You're looking at it too narrowly.
Cloak on a Defiant is not a defense. When did the Defiant get a singularity core? Anyway, if you port that build to a warbird you won't be alive long enough to generate singularity levels.
This is deliberate. I want a variety of attacks, and a buff for every weapon. I don't have room for (or interest in) attack pattern omega. I don't spend skill points on attack patterns.
So other than PH you have no tractor immunity. Do you understand how defense works?
And without APO you are tossing out unbuffed BO and HYT. You would have to crit my T'Varo with both of those to pop it, and I'm not even sure that would do it. You have a buff for every weapon but none to stack.
Mostly from BO3 on the Antiproton Dual Beam Bank, and HY3 on the Omega torpedo, ideally with the decloaking attack bonus. It admittedly depends on critical chance, but you're not taking into account all the critical bonuses I get from various things. I choose that one in a million beautiful kill over a reliable DPS grind.
I can deal with the fifteen second lockout. You're making it sound like a deal-killer when it's not.
Yeah, you get a kill on a double crit. That's success?
Are you trolling? Because you've identified multiple things most people agree are bread and butter on any ship (APO, HE, tac buff stacking, damage resists) and said they're not important. And you say you use FAW with a single DBB. Are you taking the TRIBBLE?
Because of the Tac officer layout on my Fleet Defiant, I am able to buff them with:
BO3
CRF3
HY3
DPB1
CSV1
BFAW1
TS1
And still have room for one copy of Tactical Team. I like a variety of attacks, so that I can take advantage of varied openings, and countering me requires varied defenses.
Countering you requires TT, EPTS. Killing you requires TB.
You can talk vaguely about how you "can take advantage of varied openings" but I don't know what opening FAW from a DBB can take advantage of. To me, an opening is seeing somebody use sci team. It's a big blue "Hey look at my buff bars" sign. If PH isn't up, you're dead because I'm stopping you and spiking. If it is, I'll check the time. Less than 15 seconds? I'll wait. That's an opening.
Seriously, did I just get trolled? Are you pretending to actually defend this engscort because you're making fun of the OP?
I'm not giving up science team or polarize hull so I can have hazard emitters.
The Borg won't cover the amount of Plasma that could be dumped on you.
You're also going to be susceptible to things like Energy Siphon and even Aceton Beam.
Mostly from BO3 on the Antiproton Dual Beam Bank, and HY3 on the Omega torpedo, ideally with the decloaking attack bonus. It admittedly depends on critical chance, but you're not taking into account all the critical bonuses I get from various things. I choose that one in a million beautiful kill over a reliable DPS grind.
I'm not sure why you think that I'm not taking certain things into account.
You've said what's there...one can easily add in potential skill bonuses for up to +2.5% CrtH & +25% CrtD. One can figure you might be sporting 3x Embassy BOFFs for +6% CrtH & +15% CrtD. So you could have up to +8.5% CrtH & +40% CrtD coming from those two sources. You've got the +0.92% CrtH from the Borg console as well as the +9.2% CrtD. The 0Point's giving you +1.8% CrtH. You said you took all the "defensive" passives, so you don't have Precision for the +3.0% CrtH. You mentioned AP DBB earlier and not Chron DBB, so you're either sporting one of the no longer available AP DBBs or you've got one of the crafted ones. Personally, I'm leaning toward one of the crafted ones (could be wrong) - in which case you're sporting +2% CrtH & +20% CrtD.
With a base of 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...then you'd have up to +15.72% CrtH & +119.2% CrtD...as long as you had all of that listed above.
And well, that's for the AP DBB. Would you have both 9 in Energy Weapon Specialization and Projectile Weapon Specialization? If so, you'd have the same +15.72% CrtH...and you'd have 99.2% CrtD for the Omega Torp.
Course, say you've got the Accurate Trait and 9 in Targeting - you're still only looking at +35% Bonus Accuracy with the AP DBB and +25% with the HY3 Omega.
That's about a 74% (will be less because of BO3) chance to hit a Cruiser (w/ Elusive and at 24 impulse) with the AP DBB and a 68.9% to-hit with the Torp. Against an unbuffed Escort, it's 68.9% for the DBB and 64.5% for the Torp. Odds are pretty good they're sporting some buffs of their own - so the to-hit will be lower than that.
A crit from your AP DBB BO3's probably going to be around damage before any resists are taken into consideration...33876 or so? It would be around 41240 if you were running APO3. A Tac using APA3 with the same build (including APO3) would do about 55969.
You're not running Marion without DEM, so you're most likely popping a Wep Batt after the BO so your CRF3 for the DHCs isn't garbage...but you're likely giving the target too much time because of the speed of the HY3 Omega to get to a bare shield facing. A TS3 Omega (sticking with the Omega for the 3pc Green Diaper bonus) would have a better chance of hitting the hull with a potential shield facing down if you've got the timing down for it.
I mean, you told us the build...the rest is easy to speculate on and take a look at...I wouldn't say that folks aren't taking things into consideration.
"As for space, we don't want to fall into the trap of trying to make starship combat into a dogfighter. That's not what Star Trek is about. In the shows and movies, space combat is about positioning, shifting power from weapons to shields, analyzing weaknesses, and having your crew come up with a plan at the last minute that can blast your enemy out of the sky! Space combat in Star Trek Online is a much more measured and tactical experience to reflect the spirit of the franchise" -Craig Zinkievich
Can anyone tell me how the current state of PvP in STO has been able to live up to the goal described above?
When you can go into a PvP match and get blasted back to Respawn countdown in less than 10 seconds upon contact with the enemy, how does that fit into what was described above?
I would now like to apologize for my earlier rant. Not because I necessarily have changed my mind on the statement I made previously, but because I now realize that STO PvP has developed into a VERY detailed game that is not for the casual player with limited time.
In reading other posts, I have realized that if I haven't dedicated enough time to learn the lingo (i.e. TS1, HY2, DPB2, APO3 / TT1 / EPtE1, AtS1 / PH1, TSS2, VM1 / HE1, HE2), do the math ("With a base of 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...then you'd have up to +15.72% CrtH & +119.2% CrtD"), and earn energy credits, refined dilithium, omega marks, nukara marks, romulan marks, fleet marks, fleet credits, latinum, lobi crystals, and of course ZEN, then I shouldn't have any expectation of keeping up, or even understanding what the heck is going on.
Therefore, since I can no longer compete with the experts who take this game seriously, I feel I should not complain. And since time and money spent on STO will never make me rich or successful outside STO, I guess I'll go concentrate on something more practical.
Kudos to whomever created this game. It has so many cool aspects in a real-time online game that I have been very impressed.
Therefore, since I can no longer compete with the experts who take this game seriously, I feel I should not complain. And since time and money spent on STO will never make me rich or successful outside STO, I guess I'll go concentrate on something more practical.
Thissler put it in perspective for me when he said to acknowledge it as a hobby rather than a game. Semantics, sure, but it rang true to me.
I would now like to apologize for my earlier rant. Not because I necessarily have changed my mind on the statement I made previously, but because I now realize that STO PvP has developed into a VERY detailed game that is not for the casual player with limited time.
In reading other posts, I have realized that if I haven't dedicated enough time to learn the lingo (i.e. TS1, HY2, DPB2, APO3 / TT1 / EPtE1, AtS1 / PH1, TSS2, VM1 / HE1, HE2), do the math ("With a base of 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...then you'd have up to +15.72% CrtH & +119.2% CrtD"), and earn energy credits, refined dilithium, omega marks, nukara marks, romulan marks, fleet marks, fleet credits, latinum, lobi crystals, and of course ZEN, then I shouldn't have any expectation of keeping up, or even understanding what the heck is going on.
Therefore, since I can no longer compete with the experts who take this game seriously, I feel I should not complain. And since time and money spent on STO will never make me rich or successful outside STO, I guess I'll go concentrate on something more practical.
Kudos to whomever created this game. It has so many cool aspects in a real-time online game that I have been very impressed.
While I totally understand why you would feel that way, I think I agree on only one of your 3 points. The lingo, that definitely does help, as it'll facilitate communication and discussion, and allow you to pick up more tricks and know-how.
The maths, you definitely don't really need that. If it were required, I wouldn't be here. Period. I couldn't do maths if my life depended on it, and most certainly won't do any when I intend to have fun.
Spending the various currencies, up to and including hard-earned dollars, is also optional, though it does make some slightly things easier. None but one or two of my characters have progressed through the Reputation tracks or use Fleet gear. All use stuff I either bought off the exchange for limited amounts of Energy Credits, or got as random drops or quest rewards. I do own some c-store ships, but most of these are not earth-shatteringly better than other ships in their class, and I sometimes pick my free or mirror universe vessels instead.
The reason I do ok in PvP stems mostly from your first point, as I have perused the forums and guides for advice, asking questions along the way, as well as from plain old practice. Most success is a result of skills, developed through practice. A lot of my know-how I picked up by getting defeated a whole lot of times, often in an instant, trying to figure out what just happened. After some time, I started to survive longer, so I had time to work on getting kills (often mimicking what more succesful players were doing). Eventually, I picked up enough to top the leaderboards every once in a while. Experience and hard-learned skills are your number 1 commodity, the rest are just shortcuts or tweaks to wring the last 5% of effectiveness out of a ship.
I'd just like to say, I think most of the folks that vaporize me...don't really concern themselves as much with the math and stuff as I tend to do - but hey, it's something to do while waiting on all those respawns.
While I totally understand why you would feel that way, I think I agree on only one of your 3 points. The lingo, that definitely does help, as it'll facilitate communication and discussion, and allow you to pick up more tricks and know-how.
The maths, you definitely don't really need that. If it were required, I wouldn't be here. Period. I couldn't do maths if my life depended on it, and most certainly won't do any when I intend to have fun.
Spending the various currencies, up to and including hard-earned dollars, is also optional, though it does make some slightly things easier. None but one or two of my characters have progressed through the Reputation tracks or use Fleet gear. All use stuff I either bought off the exchange for limited amounts of Energy Credits, or got as random drops or quest rewards.
The reason I do ok in PvP stems mostly from your first point, as I have perused the forums and guides for advice, asking questions along the way, as well as from plain old practice. Most success is a result of skills, developed through practice. A lot of my know-how I picked up by getting defeated a whole lot of times, often in an instant, trying to figure out what just happened. After some time, I started to survive longer, so I had time to work on getting kills (often mimicking what more succesful players were doing). Eventually, I picked up enough to top the leaderboards every once in a while. Experience and hard-learned skills are your number 1 commodity, the rest are just shortcuts or tweaks to wring the last 5% of effectiveness out of a ship.
This indeed does ring true even today. We were all newbies once upon a time. There was a time I used rainbow builds in pve cus it looked good lol.
But as we got more experianced and met better people and were defeated countless times, we learnt how to survive longer, what is a fail build and not. It's more about skills and experiance than what cheese you pack.
I personally don't use cheese unless in PVE as if you depended on it, come the time of nerf or no BS tourneys your going to feel naked and unskilled having for so long depended on that favouite console of yours (Grav pulse ring any bells?).
It takes a mouse to kill you with cheese click consoles but a man to kill you with pure skill and No BS
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I can usually twist out of a tractor with Evasive Maneuvers + Emergency power to engines.
Even if polarize hull is on cooldown, engineering fleet + brace for impact + rotate shield frequency + subspace field modulator are often enough to spare me a couple of hits and resist the rest. The only way I'm usually getting tractored and killed is when multiple human players decloak and snag me before I can react.
So you can't clear EWP, Theta, plasma procs... So you just eat dots. And get held.
The result of skill points, set bonuses, rep resists/heals and BO skills makes surprisingly much of me to be "eaten." And there really is not much success at holding me long enough for a kill.
Yeah, you get a kill on a double crit. That's success?
How is it not? Because it isn't guaranteed every time? Big whoop.
Are you trolling? Because you've identified multiple things most people agree are bread and butter on any ship (APO, HE, tac buff stacking, damage resists) and said they're not important. And you say you use FAW with a single DBB. Are you taking the TRIBBLE?
I didn't say they weren't important. I just find the cookie cutters boring. I will make my preferred build effective by force of will.
Countering you requires TT, EPTS. Killing you requires TB.
Not nearly so cut-and-dried as you make it sound.
You can talk vaguely about how you "can take advantage of varied openings" but I don't know what opening FAW from a DBB can take advantage of. To me, an opening is seeing somebody use sci team. It's a big blue "Hey look at my buff bars" sign. If PH isn't up, you're dead because I'm stopping you and spiking. If it is, I'll check the time. Less than 15 seconds? I'll wait. That's an opening.
Seriously, did I just get trolled? Are you pretending to actually defend this engscort because you're making fun of the OP?
Believe what you like. I've been playing this game since it went live. I am not a n00b, and this is not my first rodeo.
The Borg won't cover the amount of Plasma that could be dumped on you.
You're also going to be susceptible to things like Energy Siphon and even Aceton Beam.
Well aware of that. I've found my preferred build only really works on Engineers, because of the abundant system power at my disposal.
You've said what's there...one can easily add in potential skill bonuses for up to
Yes, that BO3 misses a lot. I can live with it.
You're not running Marion without DEM, so you're most likely popping a Wep Batt after the BO so your CRF3 for the DHCs isn't garbage
I alternate Red Matter Capacitor and EPS Power transfer. The only time my weapon power bottoms out is if I get careless coming out of full impulse.
...but you're likely giving the target too much time because of the speed of the HY3 Omega to get to a bare shield facing.
I decloak fully buffed at point blank range, hit them with (among other things) BO3 from that Antiproton DBB, and then launch the HY3 Omega through what is hopefully a downed shield grid.
Actually, if I'm laying all my cards on the table (and this is a 1v1 fight), what I've tried to do is first take a run at you with CSV, FAW, and TS, otherwise unbuffed, to try and draw out your defensive buffs and make you try to tractor me. On my way past, I drop the web mines and then quickly hit BO3, CR3, and THY3, plus polarize hull and any other heals/resists where necessary. If I time it right, I can swing around and hit you with all three while you're still caught in the web.
If not, I'm most likely caught in cooldown on all my offensive abilities, but I've got several options to hide and run away while I heal.
I'm actually left wondering who on Earth you're fighting against...honestly.
Pretty much everything. Mostly a resource grinder, but I do Elite STFs, PvP Arena/Capture, PvE queues, about the only stuff I don't do is ground STFs. Am I 100% successful? No, but I have a fun build with a variety of options, and it doesn't always fail.
I'd just like to say, I think most of the folks that vaporize me...don't really concern themselves as much with the math and stuff as I tend to do - but hey, it's something to do while waiting on all those respawns.
I don't care about Math in this game really either.
I only pay attention to the big shiny numbers when they pop up on mah screen
Also, I'd love to take on that one dudes defiant. My control spike vesta would be fun.
Dude, you just said "if polarize hull is on cooldown I can just use polarize hull" lol
Am I 100% successful? No, but I have a fun build with a variety of options, and it doesn't always fail.
In the end, fun is what is important. There's no arguing with that. Folks can argue left, right, down the middle, back again about various things - but they can't tell you that you're not having fun when you're having fun.
I can't picture dropping the Omega at point-blank, mind you...lol. It's almost a 100% guarantee that the following happens:
1) It doesn't crit on them. The DoT doesn't crit on them. They wiggle their wings at me in mockery.
2) It does crit on me. The DoT does crit on me. I'm watching them wiggle their wings at me in mockery while waiting on the respawn.
In the end, fun is what is important. There's no arguing with that. Folks can argue left, right, down the middle, back again about various things - but they can't tell you that you're not having fun when you're having fun.
I can't picture dropping the Omega at point-blank, mind you...lol. It's almost a 100% guarantee that the following happens:
1) It doesn't crit on them. The DoT doesn't crit on them. They wiggle their wings at me in mockery.
2) It does crit on me. The DoT does crit on me. I'm watching them wiggle their wings at me in mockery while waiting on the respawn.
[System] [Default] Willard the Rat has died.
Priceless, happened to me a few times when I frist used it.
Best is someone uses the beach ball of death, you shoot it as soon as they release it and they kill themselves as they have no shields lol. Priceless
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
In the end, fun is what is important. There's no arguing with that. Folks can argue left, right, down the middle, back again about various things - but they can't tell you that you're not having fun when you're having fun.
I can't picture dropping the Omega at point-blank, mind you...lol. It's almost a 100% guarantee that the following happens:
1) It doesn't crit on them. The DoT doesn't crit on them. They wiggle their wings at me in mockery.
2) It does crit on me. The DoT does crit on me. I'm watching them wiggle their wings at me in mockery while waiting on the respawn.
[System] [Default] Willard the Rat has died.
I definitely have blown myself up with that Omega torpedo. Can't be firing that at point blank with my shields down.
Actually, if I'm laying all my cards on the table (and this is a 1v1 fight), what I've tried to do is first take a run at you with CSV, FAW, and TS, otherwise unbuffed, to try and draw out your defensive buffs and make you try to tractor me. On my way past, I drop the web mines and then quickly hit BO3, CR3, and THY3, plus polarize hull and any other heals/resists where necessary. If I time it right, I can swing around and hit you with all three while you're still caught in the web.
And you make it sound like you use FAW with a single DBB.
And that works just fine for it's intended purpose, which is not an immediate, epic kill, but in combination with scatter volley and torpedo spread for controlling shuttle/mine spam and taking out destructible projectiles. Particularly effective on those ships that vomit endless streams of hyper-plasma torpedos, for example.
And that works just fine for it's intended purpose, which is not an immediate, epic kill, but in combination with scatter volley and torpedo spread for controlling shuttle/mine spam and taking out destructible projectiles. Particularly effective on those ships that vomit endless streams of hyper-plasma torpedos, for example.
And pet spam
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Comments
In D2X, the hardcore PVPers would usually cram their inventory with charms. Why? well you don't get item drops in pvp anyways so why not? It was especially common with +resist, and +hp charms, though +cold damage came up often too. Why? well, it would add cold damage and a chill duration to attacks that otherwise lacked them. Chilled chars would move and attack slower.
I loved using a +cold damage charm as a trap assassn. I wonder if they "fixed" the way those worked with traps.
@Hanover: mixing Cannon, Beam, Torpedo, AND Mine skills? O_O'
My character Tsin'xing
This is what we know (or surmise where iffy) about your build (yes, with pretty colors - which is pretty much the standard way that BOFF layouts are laid out for ease of reading)...
FAW1, CSV1, BO3, CRF3
TS1, DPB1, HY3
TT1
EPtE1/ET1, EPtE2/ET2
PH1/ST1, PH2/ST2
Reputation
New Rom - Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation
Nukara - Fortified Hull, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense, Refracting Tetryon Cascade
Omega - Hull-Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
You've got 5 Tac, 3 Eng, and 2 Sci Consoles...from those available slots, you've told us you've got the following:
Cloak, Photonic Displacement, Borg, 0Point, Nukara. That's 5 of the 10 gone. So the odds are you've cut into your Tac Consoles pretty heavily...though, who really knows at this point.
You're sporting 2pc Borg...though which 2 pieces is unknown.
What exactly does it work for...? Trolling folks on the forums?
As for the Borg sets, I have the Mk XII engine and deflector, as well as the torpedo/cutting beam/console combo. The Borg shield is TRIBBLE, though. I run the Mk XII Adapted Maco instead.
Console distribution: Fleet Defiant, so 3xEng, 2xSci, 5xTac.
Tac slots are used exclusively for tac consoles. All those universal consoles are taking up my Sci and Eng slots.
I would personally feel that it was rather squishy, as you don't actually have any actual damage resist besides RSFand PH. Not to mention the universal consoles taking up console slots minimises your base hull resist. All you have is speed-based defense.
Your prime weakness would probably be whatever is cleared by Hazard Emitters. EWP would be like kryptonite where you are concerned, since you lack both the HE and the APO that most use to deal with it. Heals are also fairly iffy besides MW, since your only BoFF ones are ST and ET, which share a cooldown. Alpha strikes may also give you a headache, as TT will have to be used to redistribute shields, and that will lock out your heals, forcing you to retreat to recover.
All in all, a very "glass cannon" type of build, which may be partially compensated for by the Eng captain, but not really recommended for anyone new.
It's also something of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none, as only one of your buff cycles is single-target focused - which will mean a kill is unlikely. More than one buff cycle is definitely needed to kill anyone capable, unless the person has just been subnuked or you are extremely tac-buffed - which are both unlikely. Put simply, your build has almost no synergy between abilities, which is a hallmark of good builds.
But if you retreat, it doesn't help to keep pressure on either. Retreating and dying are practically the same thing in an Arena, as players typically fully heal up in 30 seconds at most. A little off, don't you think? Besides, there are better setups that allow you to better stay in the fight and deal similar amounts of damage. So yeah......you might be able to make it work, but I think there are slightly more focused builds that would do better.
I don't think it even needs a "classic" build...but then again, I fly flaky stuff. There's just some core things that are missing that (imho) create issues.
APO/HE being the main two, as you pointed out.
APO offers +Damage, +Damage Resistance, +Defense, +Speed, +Turn, +Movement Debuff Immunity, +Disable Immunity...that's a lot to give up on a ship that not only could run APO1 but could actually run APO3. As an Eng, he doesn't have the APA3 for the +50% damage...and he's further giving up the APO3 for the +25% damage. I'm not sure where the "spike" damage is coming from.
The lack of the cleanse from HE just leaves somebody open to far too much (imho).
You mentioned his heals with ET/ST...but he's also sporting TT. Three team abilities on a ship that's sorely lacking non-Tac BOFFs...that kind of makes me drool thinking about it. It's so easy to put somebody in a position where they would need TT/ET/ST all at the same time - they've got to pick one, lock themselves out of the other two and not have anything else that can help out in the interim.
There's a lot of room between what's there and his hate for the cookie cutter build... (heh, I'm not fond of those builds either).
Yeah, I noted the heal lockout. He could certainly do something different from the cookie cutter, but his current one is really a hit or miss. Edited to remove reference to cookie cutters, since I kinda forgot that he plain doesn't want that.
use you standard L50 captain, reclaim or drag outta mothballs your favorite Tier2-3 ship,
use whatever consoles you wish just remember that most ships in that category have a max of 6 console slots and 9 boff powers to use.
Plus subspace field generator, cloak, quantum singularity manipulation and photonic displacement. You're looking at it too narrowly.
This is deliberate. I want a variety of attacks, and a buff for every weapon. I don't have room for (or interest in) attack pattern omega. I don't spend skill points on attack patterns.
I very often get back in the fight faster than a respawn timer.
I'm not giving up science team or polarize hull so I can have hazard emitters.
Mostly from BO3 on the Antiproton Dual Beam Bank, and HY3 on the Omega torpedo, ideally with the decloaking attack bonus. It admittedly depends on critical chance, but you're not taking into account all the critical bonuses I get from various things. I choose that one in a million beautiful kill over a reliable DPS grind.
I can deal with the fifteen second lockout. You're making it sound like a deal-killer when it's not.
i posted an event that is excatly what you mention. tier 3 ships only, anything else goes.
no one showed up.
i do hold other themed events from time to time, keep an eye out for them.
Do you even Science Bro?
:P
And you have no resistance. Here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=702611
So other than PH you have no tractor immunity. Do you understand how defense works?
And without APO you are tossing out unbuffed BO and HYT. You would have to crit my T'Varo with both of those to pop it, and I'm not even sure that would do it. You have a buff for every weapon but none to stack.
So you can't clear EWP, Theta, plasma procs... So you just eat dots. And get held.
Yeah, you get a kill on a double crit. That's success?
Are you trolling? Because you've identified multiple things most people agree are bread and butter on any ship (APO, HE, tac buff stacking, damage resists) and said they're not important. And you say you use FAW with a single DBB. Are you taking the TRIBBLE? Countering you requires TT, EPTS. Killing you requires TB.
You can talk vaguely about how you "can take advantage of varied openings" but I don't know what opening FAW from a DBB can take advantage of. To me, an opening is seeing somebody use sci team. It's a big blue "Hey look at my buff bars" sign. If PH isn't up, you're dead because I'm stopping you and spiking. If it is, I'll check the time. Less than 15 seconds? I'll wait. That's an opening.
Seriously, did I just get trolled? Are you pretending to actually defend this engscort because you're making fun of the OP?
The Borg won't cover the amount of Plasma that could be dumped on you.
You're also going to be susceptible to things like Energy Siphon and even Aceton Beam.
I'm not sure why you think that I'm not taking certain things into account.
You've said what's there...one can easily add in potential skill bonuses for up to +2.5% CrtH & +25% CrtD. One can figure you might be sporting 3x Embassy BOFFs for +6% CrtH & +15% CrtD. So you could have up to +8.5% CrtH & +40% CrtD coming from those two sources. You've got the +0.92% CrtH from the Borg console as well as the +9.2% CrtD. The 0Point's giving you +1.8% CrtH. You said you took all the "defensive" passives, so you don't have Precision for the +3.0% CrtH. You mentioned AP DBB earlier and not Chron DBB, so you're either sporting one of the no longer available AP DBBs or you've got one of the crafted ones. Personally, I'm leaning toward one of the crafted ones (could be wrong) - in which case you're sporting +2% CrtH & +20% CrtD.
With a base of 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...then you'd have up to +15.72% CrtH & +119.2% CrtD...as long as you had all of that listed above.
And well, that's for the AP DBB. Would you have both 9 in Energy Weapon Specialization and Projectile Weapon Specialization? If so, you'd have the same +15.72% CrtH...and you'd have 99.2% CrtD for the Omega Torp.
Course, say you've got the Accurate Trait and 9 in Targeting - you're still only looking at +35% Bonus Accuracy with the AP DBB and +25% with the HY3 Omega.
That's about a 74% (will be less because of BO3) chance to hit a Cruiser (w/ Elusive and at 24 impulse) with the AP DBB and a 68.9% to-hit with the Torp. Against an unbuffed Escort, it's 68.9% for the DBB and 64.5% for the Torp. Odds are pretty good they're sporting some buffs of their own - so the to-hit will be lower than that.
A crit from your AP DBB BO3's probably going to be around damage before any resists are taken into consideration...33876 or so? It would be around 41240 if you were running APO3. A Tac using APA3 with the same build (including APO3) would do about 55969.
You're not running Marion without DEM, so you're most likely popping a Wep Batt after the BO so your CRF3 for the DHCs isn't garbage...but you're likely giving the target too much time because of the speed of the HY3 Omega to get to a bare shield facing. A TS3 Omega (sticking with the Omega for the 3pc Green Diaper bonus) would have a better chance of hitting the hull with a potential shield facing down if you've got the timing down for it.
I mean, you told us the build...the rest is easy to speculate on and take a look at...I wouldn't say that folks aren't taking things into consideration.
I'm actually left wondering who on Earth you're fighting against...honestly.
My character Tsin'xing
I would now like to apologize for my earlier rant. Not because I necessarily have changed my mind on the statement I made previously, but because I now realize that STO PvP has developed into a VERY detailed game that is not for the casual player with limited time.
In reading other posts, I have realized that if I haven't dedicated enough time to learn the lingo (i.e. TS1, HY2, DPB2, APO3 / TT1 / EPtE1, AtS1 / PH1, TSS2, VM1 / HE1, HE2), do the math ("With a base of 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...then you'd have up to +15.72% CrtH & +119.2% CrtD"), and earn energy credits, refined dilithium, omega marks, nukara marks, romulan marks, fleet marks, fleet credits, latinum, lobi crystals, and of course ZEN, then I shouldn't have any expectation of keeping up, or even understanding what the heck is going on.
Therefore, since I can no longer compete with the experts who take this game seriously, I feel I should not complain. And since time and money spent on STO will never make me rich or successful outside STO, I guess I'll go concentrate on something more practical.
Kudos to whomever created this game. It has so many cool aspects in a real-time online game that I have been very impressed.
Thissler put it in perspective for me when he said to acknowledge it as a hobby rather than a game. Semantics, sure, but it rang true to me.
While I totally understand why you would feel that way, I think I agree on only one of your 3 points. The lingo, that definitely does help, as it'll facilitate communication and discussion, and allow you to pick up more tricks and know-how.
The maths, you definitely don't really need that. If it were required, I wouldn't be here. Period. I couldn't do maths if my life depended on it, and most certainly won't do any when I intend to have fun.
Spending the various currencies, up to and including hard-earned dollars, is also optional, though it does make some slightly things easier. None but one or two of my characters have progressed through the Reputation tracks or use Fleet gear. All use stuff I either bought off the exchange for limited amounts of Energy Credits, or got as random drops or quest rewards. I do own some c-store ships, but most of these are not earth-shatteringly better than other ships in their class, and I sometimes pick my free or mirror universe vessels instead.
The reason I do ok in PvP stems mostly from your first point, as I have perused the forums and guides for advice, asking questions along the way, as well as from plain old practice. Most success is a result of skills, developed through practice. A lot of my know-how I picked up by getting defeated a whole lot of times, often in an instant, trying to figure out what just happened. After some time, I started to survive longer, so I had time to work on getting kills (often mimicking what more succesful players were doing). Eventually, I picked up enough to top the leaderboards every once in a while. Experience and hard-learned skills are your number 1 commodity, the rest are just shortcuts or tweaks to wring the last 5% of effectiveness out of a ship.
This indeed does ring true even today. We were all newbies once upon a time. There was a time I used rainbow builds in pve cus it looked good lol.
But as we got more experianced and met better people and were defeated countless times, we learnt how to survive longer, what is a fail build and not. It's more about skills and experiance than what cheese you pack.
I personally don't use cheese unless in PVE as if you depended on it, come the time of nerf or no BS tourneys your going to feel naked and unskilled having for so long depended on that favouite console of yours (Grav pulse ring any bells?).
It takes a mouse to kill you with cheese click consoles but a man to kill you with pure skill and No BS
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I can usually twist out of a tractor with Evasive Maneuvers + Emergency power to engines.
Even if polarize hull is on cooldown, engineering fleet + brace for impact + rotate shield frequency + subspace field modulator are often enough to spare me a couple of hits and resist the rest. The only way I'm usually getting tractored and killed is when multiple human players decloak and snag me before I can react.
The result of skill points, set bonuses, rep resists/heals and BO skills makes surprisingly much of me to be "eaten." And there really is not much success at holding me long enough for a kill.
How is it not? Because it isn't guaranteed every time? Big whoop.
I didn't say they weren't important. I just find the cookie cutters boring. I will make my preferred build effective by force of will.
Not nearly so cut-and-dried as you make it sound.
Believe what you like. I've been playing this game since it went live. I am not a n00b, and this is not my first rodeo.
Well aware of that. I've found my preferred build only really works on Engineers, because of the abundant system power at my disposal.
Yes, that BO3 misses a lot. I can live with it.
I alternate Red Matter Capacitor and EPS Power transfer. The only time my weapon power bottoms out is if I get careless coming out of full impulse.
I decloak fully buffed at point blank range, hit them with (among other things) BO3 from that Antiproton DBB, and then launch the HY3 Omega through what is hopefully a downed shield grid.
Actually, if I'm laying all my cards on the table (and this is a 1v1 fight), what I've tried to do is first take a run at you with CSV, FAW, and TS, otherwise unbuffed, to try and draw out your defensive buffs and make you try to tractor me. On my way past, I drop the web mines and then quickly hit BO3, CR3, and THY3, plus polarize hull and any other heals/resists where necessary. If I time it right, I can swing around and hit you with all three while you're still caught in the web.
If not, I'm most likely caught in cooldown on all my offensive abilities, but I've got several options to hide and run away while I heal.
Pretty much everything. Mostly a resource grinder, but I do Elite STFs, PvP Arena/Capture, PvE queues, about the only stuff I don't do is ground STFs. Am I 100% successful? No, but I have a fun build with a variety of options, and it doesn't always fail.
I don't care about Math in this game really either.
I only pay attention to the big shiny numbers when they pop up on mah screen
Also, I'd love to take on that one dudes defiant. My control spike vesta would be fun.
Dude, you just said "if polarize hull is on cooldown I can just use polarize hull" lol
Do you even Science Bro?
Yeah, you caught me in my hugely grievous error. :rolleyes:
I meant "brace for impact."
In the end, fun is what is important. There's no arguing with that. Folks can argue left, right, down the middle, back again about various things - but they can't tell you that you're not having fun when you're having fun.
I can't picture dropping the Omega at point-blank, mind you...lol. It's almost a 100% guarantee that the following happens:
1) It doesn't crit on them. The DoT doesn't crit on them. They wiggle their wings at me in mockery.
2) It does crit on me. The DoT does crit on me. I'm watching them wiggle their wings at me in mockery while waiting on the respawn.
[System] [Default] Willard the Rat has died.
Priceless, happened to me a few times when I frist used it.
Best is someone uses the beach ball of death, you shoot it as soon as they release it and they kill themselves as they have no shields lol. Priceless
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I definitely have blown myself up with that Omega torpedo. Can't be firing that at point blank with my shields down.
And you make it sound like you use FAW with a single DBB.
Instead of flaming him, you could either not reply or simply give your reasons why his build may or may not be good.
Try and be constructive rather than troll
You obviously haven't met decent engineers that can out DPS and out tank Tacs and run them down
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
And that works just fine for it's intended purpose, which is not an immediate, epic kill, but in combination with scatter volley and torpedo spread for controlling shuttle/mine spam and taking out destructible projectiles. Particularly effective on those ships that vomit endless streams of hyper-plasma torpedos, for example.
And pet spam
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)