Uhmmm... okay. That reminds me of how I wanted to be an Olympic athlete, but when I found out how much training and dedication were required to be competitive on that level, I went back to playing kickball in the schoolyard.
That's fine if there is a schoolyard to go back to; as it is, it's Olympic level or nothing.
In general the idea of removing versatility to pvp to cuddle some newer less advanced players, is really sickening. It doesn't improve anything except turn pvp into a two build system which is what you want to avoid in pvp.
As for complaining about how you have to actually level up and get gear to improve your chances at pvp... yeah... so what? That is how it should be, people that work for their builds should have an advantage over someone who doesnt.
That is the most wrong thing I have ever seen.
"i have item X which makes me better than you"
That isnt PvP, that is item collection.
PvP should never be based on what you have. It should never be based on what level of gearing you have, either.
Best PvP is when you can take stock stuff and still win with it, if youre good enough.
Here? HA!
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
What you are looking for is some simplistic pvp system with just classes, no gear, nothing. While that might make a good OPTION for a pvp type system, it shouldn't be standardized.
Ontop of that, of course better stats should equate to higher chances at winning, it doesn't equate to better combat style however, or even build. Ontop of that, marginal differences in gear XI vs XII shouldn't generate a sweeping victory in pvp, and it doesn't.
Also your ideology revolves around no leveling up, no work towards your character, you just want people to jump in at level 1 with no knowledge of the game and kill. A fundamentally flawed way of thinking.
In retrospect you want exactly what bug exploiters want, an I win Button.
What you are looking for is some simplistic pvp system with just classes, no gear, nothing. While that might make a good OPTION for a pvp type system, it shouldn't be standardized.
Ontop of that, of course better stats should equate to higher chances at winning, it doesn't equate to better combat style however, or even build. Ontop of that, marginal differences in gear XI vs XII shouldn't generate a sweeping victory in pvp, and it doesn't.
Also your ideology revolves around no leveling up, no work towards your character, you just want people to jump in at level 1 with no knowledge of the game and kill. A fundamentally flawed way of thinking.
In retrospect you want exactly what bug exploiters want, an I win Button.
Dont make sweeping conclusions, my actual premise is this:
No person should have to "earn" the ability to be competitive against someone else. That should be based purely on how they fly their ****ing ship.
Thats the whole flaw in the STO pvp system, as it has been utilized by the playerbase at large thus far. You either have super powerful 500 IRL dollar setup ships that smash face, or laughable stock stuff that couldnt fight out of a wet paper bag.
You know, because having to buy a ton of TRIBBLE just to be on par with someone else is conductive to gathering more people around the idea.
I never subscribed to the thought that "pay to win" has killed PvP in this game, but the more I get exposed to it, the more I start to believe it.
All the skill in the world you may have, til you meet the guy that spent a couple hundred bucks making his ship into something you would never be able to touch without doing the same thing.
Of course you dont have to open the wallet, but if you dont expect to spend 6 months dilithium grinding to get everything you need.
Deny it all you want, its the truth.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Dont make sweeping conclusions, my actual premise is this:
No person should have to "earn" the ability to be competitive against someone else. That should be based purely on how they fly their ****ing ship.
Thats the whole flaw in the STO pvp system, as it has been utilized by the playerbase at large thus far. You either have super powerful 500 IRL dollar setup ships that smash face, or laughable stock stuff that couldnt fight out of a wet paper bag.
You know, because having to buy a ton of TRIBBLE just to be on par with someone else is conductive to gathering more people around the idea.
I never subscribed to the thought that "pay to win" has killed PvP in this game, but the more I get exposed to it, the more I start to believe it.
All the skill in the world you may have, til you meet the guy that spent a couple hundred bucks making his ship into something you would never be able to touch without doing the same thing.
Of course you dont have to open the wallet, but if you dont expect to spend 6 months dilithium grinding to get everything you need.
Deny it all you want, its the truth.
I do deny it, most of the people that win 100% of the time are exploiting known bugs.
You take "advantage" and exaggerate it to the extreme, you take disadvantage and make it sound like you are crippled and can't do anything. Does a fleet ship have more versatility than a VA standard ship? well duh, who cares? You should be working towards your build, not be handed it on a silver platter.
Granted you get things faster with $$ but you can still get them with EC and dilithium. So lets not make it sound like you are completely helpless to improve your build. Also this is ignoring the fact that rare vs very rare and XI vs XII very rares, differ very little. So if you can make compromises in that area, you can get a pretty good at fairly cheap.
So yes, I believe working towards a build is key to enrich the player experience. Rather than instantly being good because some kids cant handle improving their builds through hard work.
im pretty good and i have pretty good stuff. at least everything thats 'free', everything that isn't gated behind lobi and keys. without it i would not do nearly as well, at least a quarter of a good players success is the +1 ship, gear, weapons, console and doffs they have. without all that your at a steep disadvantage. but you arent helpless, its still possible to have plenty of fun, you just got to be prepared to put in serious grind time to at least get all the rep. play and grind and earn and improve. at least pvp is a good reason to do all that, makes little difference if you only pve.
I do deny it, most of the people that win 100% of the time are exploiting known bugs.
You take "advantage" and exaggerate it to the extreme, you take disadvantage and make it sound like you are crippled and can't do anything. Does a fleet ship have more versatility than a VA standard ship? well duh, who cares? You should be working towards your build, not be handed it on a silver platter.
Granted you get things faster with $$ but you can still get them with EC and dilithium. So lets not make it sound like you are completely helpless to improve your build. Also this is ignoring the fact that rare vs very rare and XI vs XII very rares, differ very little. So if you can make compromises in that area, you can get a pretty good at fairly cheap.
So yes, I believe working towards a build is key to enrich the player experience. Rather than instantly being good because some kids cant handle improving their builds through hard work.
I dont believe in silver platter builds.
Ok then. Note what this thread is all about.
We need more pvpers? PvP has slowed down?
How do we get more?
Right now you turn to look at a player and say, hey we need you to pvp, but you wont be very good until youve spent a whole lot of time and money to do it.
Do they come?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Right now you turn to look at a player and say, hey we need you to pvp, but you wont be very good until youve spent a whole lot of time and money to do it.
Do they come?
You've got it wrong, people don't pvp because >it is a disorganized mess< Not because they aren't getting everything on a silver platter. and I already listed how, and I even added more when debating you.
wow, after reading all this I highly doubt I want to even try this game. To all you who bought their way to "skill" enjoy your dying game because as Bob is my witless you will get very few if any new players. The best gear should only give a slight edge against stock gear. No one should ever be forced to fight a guy in a tank with a bow and arrow. Kind of like SWtOR, people exploited the snot out of that game and hardly anyone plays it anymore. Exploiters and basement dwellers ruin a lot of good games. When will the industry get a clue and move the games server side?
Dont make sweeping conclusions, my actual premise is this:
No person should have to "earn" the ability to be competitive against someone else. That should be based purely on how they fly their ****ing ship.
Thats the whole flaw in the STO pvp system, as it has been utilized by the playerbase at large thus far. You either have super powerful 500 IRL dollar setup ships that smash face, or laughable stock stuff that couldnt fight out of a wet paper bag.
You know, because having to buy a ton of TRIBBLE just to be on par with someone else is conductive to gathering more people around the idea.
I never subscribed to the thought that "pay to win" has killed PvP in this game, but the more I get exposed to it, the more I start to believe it.
All the skill in the world you may have, til you meet the guy that spent a couple hundred bucks making his ship into something you would never be able to touch without doing the same thing.
Of course you dont have to open the wallet, but if you dont expect to spend 6 months dilithium grinding to get everything you need.
Deny it all you want, its the truth.
Fine, I deny it. Because that is not truth.
It is synergy that determines how effective a person is, in PvP. A synergy between player, skills, equipment, ship, team (if applicable), etc.
I haven't spent as much money as half of the players here, yet I have a Recluse that can team heal very effectively. Total money invested: $30. Not $500. Just thirty.
Pay to win elevates lower skilled players to be more effective. It does NOT automatically make them the king of the hill.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
wow, after reading all this I highly doubt I want to even try this game. To all you who bought their way to "skill" enjoy your dying game because as Bob is my witless you will get very few if any new players. The best gear should only give a slight edge against stock gear. No one should ever be forced to fight a guy in a tank with a bow and arrow. Kind of like SWtOR, people exploited the snot out of that game and hardly anyone plays it anymore. Exploiters and basement dwellers ruin a lot of good games. When will the industry get a clue and move the games server side?
Um I don't know where you've been but neither this game or swtor are dying, just because both games have some pvp problems doesn't kill the game and in fact I believe both are doing quite well.
wow, after reading all this I highly doubt I want to even try this game. To all you who bought their way to "skill" enjoy your dying game because as Bob is my witless you will get very few if any new players. The best gear should only give a slight edge against stock gear. No one should ever be forced to fight a guy in a tank with a bow and arrow. Kind of like SWtOR, people exploited the snot out of that game and hardly anyone plays it anymore. Exploiters and basement dwellers ruin a lot of good games. When will the industry get a clue and move the games server side?
its not like that. and this game has just about the most generious F2P ive ever seen. its really not that hard to get the 'good' stuff, its just a mater of time OR money. fleet ships just cost fleet marks EC for the fleet moduals, cheaper and better then getting a stock ship that cost dilithium if you dont have leveling tokens due to being a silver. its worth going gold till you get to top level, in a month you should be able to level between 4 or 8 characters depending on the time you got.
all the best gear costs in game money, its not that hard to get. all the top end ships are on the exchange too. rep leveling is just an ec and mark sink.
there is no buying skill, thats the 1 thing that cannot be made up for. or the majority of people that que up wouldn't pop like balloons despite them having all the best gear from grinding or paying to bypass the time grind.
i haven't read this thread for quite wile, but its proboly mostly just ******** that they die and everyone that doesn't is an exploiter. it cant be that they just really suck and dont actually understand the game they are playing at alll, noooo couldn't be that. but there are a ton of resources to address that, just in case that actually is the problem.
i haven't read this thread for quite wile, but its proboly mostly just ******** that they die and everyone that doesn't is an exploiter. it cant be that they just really suck and dont actually understand the game they are playing at alll, noooo couldn't be that. but there are a ton of resources to address that, just in case that actually is the problem.
Thanks shotmedrunkdont ^o^
which makes me want to repeat myself to a certain other person in this thread "People that work for their builds should have an advantage over someone who doesnt."
Wouldn't thinking the opposite sound really self entitled?
which makes me want to repeat myself to a certain other person in this thread "People that work for their builds should have an advantage over someone who doesnt."
Wouldn't thinking the opposite sound really self entitled?
I agree that gear in STO is fairly easy to get. I don't agree with putting much of the games best gear behind Fleet walls though. That does nothing to help new players. I think most of that gear should be Multi personal rep unlocks. I would like to see Cryptic add multi personal rep fleet gear unlocks after they do another personal rep. Something like level 3 personal rep tiers to 5 get access to tier 3 fleet gear... level 4 get access to level 4.
Anyway to your point does it make people sound entitled to assume that a game with PvP would in fact balance it ? Yes I guess your right that is a very entitled position to take.
STO / Cryptic has been terrible at PvP balance, frankly that anyone that has started playing the last year has stuck around to get better at PvP amazes me. If I started playing a new previously existing MMO where I felt I would have to grind hard for 2-3 months to just get passable gear I wouldn't bother. Seriously I wouldn't not worth it to me when there are so many other very good pvp games out there where that isn't required of me.
What STO needs is a system like Anets GW2 PvP system. We need open zones (like kerrat, larger and better would be cool though) where you can run what ever you earn by grinding PvE. In PvP though you should be using a second paper doll of your ship... that can only equip PvP gear... of which there should be no advantage to any of it. If they feel the need to make money off of PvP they can do it through cosmetics. Perhaps a PvP cosmetic system that unlocks PvP paint jobs with shiny tech. (like the improved skins on the summer ship). They could also provide Fireworks. (Yes I am serious why not have different pvp fire works displays that have charges and put them in the zen store... who wouldn't want to drop a fire works vulcan hand salute on a victim... or a smiling gorn ect ect lol)
If the open PvP zone was good... they could still cash in on PvPers with the regular PvE junk toys... and for the PvP players that prefer there opponents not be handicapped due to being 4 years behind on the grind... they can take it to the arena system where all gear is equalized... and when they prove themselves the better player they can drop exploding Picard face palm displays over there victims respawn cameras. lol
As a person that did join the game in the last year, the above post illustrates something.
I came very very close to not bothering to gear for PvP after my initial observations and some research. Six months later here I am, finally fricken ready.
And the grind burned me out on the game. Now I dont even feel like it most of the time.
So there is your new player. I am totally burned out but hey now im finally ready to fight you on even footing.
>=/
My personal testimony may not amount to much, considering I am a hardcore PvPer by background, but anyone with less of a drive wouldnt bother. Seriously, I cant see why they would.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
wow, after reading all this I highly doubt I want to even try this game. To all you who bought their way to "skill" enjoy your dying game because as Bob is my witless you will get very few if any new players. The best gear should only give a slight edge against stock gear. No one should ever be forced to fight a guy in a tank with a bow and arrow. Kind of like SWtOR, people exploited the snot out of that game and hardly anyone plays it anymore. Exploiters and basement dwellers ruin a lot of good games. When will the industry get a clue and move the games server side?
Here's the thing, you're directing your righteous anger and indignation at the wrong people. Please point your soapbox at Cryptic not the players.
As a person that did join the game in the last year, the above post illustrates something.
I came very very close to not bothering to gear for PvP after my initial observations and some research. Six months later here I am, finally fricken ready.
And the grind burned me out on the game. Now I dont even feel like it most of the time.
So there is your new player. I am totally burned out but hey now im finally ready to fight you on even footing.
>=/
I do agree on that. The damned Reputation system takes too long to complete, that by the time you consider yourself even remotely ready for any type of PvP, you are burned out.
I experienced this while getting my Romulan character up to fully geared. Took her three months, and I only ended up playing her for two weeks.
EDCs anyone?
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
It's only going to get worse as more and more Reps are added, more and more Fleet Holdings are added, more and more this/that/whatever. The gap between the new player and the "veteran" will continue to grow. While this is somewhat fine for PvE in most games, it generally creates an issue in PvP for most games...
It's only going to get worse as more and more Reps are added, more and more Fleet Holdings are added, more and more this/that/whatever. The gap between the new player and the "veteran" will continue to grow. While this is somewhat fine for PvE in most games, it generally creates an issue in PvP for most games...
That is every game that has progression extended for content.... Why should the new players get everything faster when the veterans went through it also and spent the same time?? because the veterans were here first?? Pssh as if.
That is every game that has progression extended for content.... Why should the new players get everything faster when the veterans went through it also and spent the same time?? because the veterans were here first?? Pssh as if.
Because the elitism of this post doesnt equate to fresh players to shoot at. The harder you make it to par up for PvP, the fewer newbies you will get.
Unless youre ok with a dwindling veteran pvp population that isnt being replaced at the rate they are burning out or quitting...
And im sorry but perpetual noob stomping just sounds boring.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Because it weren't balanced enough during the time of the veterans, because they were early in the curve when the changes was newer and the devs more naive, because the devs made a mistake in making pvp gearing the same as pve gearing (ie stupidly long grind... I don't take 6 months to gear up a fresh Hunter, for example!).
And if they are going to perpetuate the mistake of making the grind too long because to do so would somehow "invalidate" the veterans who already have gear and are crying for new blood, then PVP deserves to stay deserted.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
It's only going to get worse as more and more Reps are added, more and more Fleet Holdings are added, more and more this/that/whatever. The gap between the new player and the "veteran" will continue to grow. While this is somewhat fine for PvE in most games, it generally creates an issue in PvP for most games...
That is every game that has progression extended for content.... Why should the new players get everything faster when the veterans went through it also and spent the same time?? because the veterans were here first?? Pssh as if.
For the life of me, I've got no idea why you replied to what I said with what you said...
edit: I thought it was pretty clear, but maybe this will help...?
PvE
Typically a case of doing Content A to get Gear X to do Content B to get Gear Y to do Content C to get Gear Z...etc, etc, etc. Tada, progression.
PvP
No, that's not a mistake that there's nothing there. There's nothing there. There's no progression.
rep is hell, but if you can figure out a good routine it can be a bit less painful. the burnout doesn't last too awful long, and pvp is more enjoyable without an arm tied behind your back. it was worth it
rep is hell, but if you can figure out a good routine it can be a bit less painful. the burnout doesn't last too awful long, and pvp is more enjoyable without an arm tied behind your back. it was worth it
I'm curious how they're handling the Voth Task Force Rep, since depending on how that goes - they're looking at changing the other three.
It's kind of put me in the position of not wanting to work on any of it...that wait and see thing.
Willard's 5/5/5, Prophet's 5/5/4, Plague's 5/5/3...New Rom, Omega, Nukara. Other guys are anywhere from 0 to 3...more toward 0 than 3.
Suposedly, you'll have access to MkXII's since Tier 1, or I think they said something somewhere like that. I don't think though, that the forced delays to get the skills will be gone, which is, along with rom marks and overpriced dilithium costs of the items, the worse part of rep...
I do agree that is it a pain that most of the best gear is locked behind Fleet based Grind system and personal reputation grind system where it takes at least 2 months of Dedicated grinding in order to unlock some of the best abilities and Gear (Sometimes longer because of needing the Credits to buy said gear)
I miss the old days when it was just a matter of amasing the credits that could take less then a month in order to get the gear you would desire/need for PVP.
Still not sure what they are planning to do for Season 8, rumors are flying about that.
But I know if they do another grind, I don't know if I'll want to participate in that, or anything else at this point.. Getting tired of Grinding for gear and it hurts having multiple characters.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
What am I complaining about except for the person who is mad that Cryptic didnt give them an NPC that had everything in the game for 0 EC?
Ill be blunt. Who gives a damn what stuff you have?
That should NOT matter to PvP. The fact it currently does in this game is one of the biggest reasons new players go the one and done route.
Losing is one thing, hopelessly getting bashed in the face by a total showoff with "stuff" is just taking the TRIBBLE.
Especially the ones that queue vs pugs just to noobstomp for easy quick kills. Where the hell is the competition in that? Go fight the other people with loads of "stuff" and leave the newbies alone. Youre only gonna drive them away.
Seriously, quit bringing up your "work" and hoard of stuff.
I dont want free stuff, I want PvP to not be DEFINED by what you have, because right now it is, and it is destroying any hope of it ever making a large scale comeback.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Comments
That's fine if there is a schoolyard to go back to; as it is, it's Olympic level or nothing.
That is the most wrong thing I have ever seen.
"i have item X which makes me better than you"
That isnt PvP, that is item collection.
PvP should never be based on what you have. It should never be based on what level of gearing you have, either.
Best PvP is when you can take stock stuff and still win with it, if youre good enough.
Here? HA!
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
What you are looking for is some simplistic pvp system with just classes, no gear, nothing. While that might make a good OPTION for a pvp type system, it shouldn't be standardized.
Ontop of that, of course better stats should equate to higher chances at winning, it doesn't equate to better combat style however, or even build. Ontop of that, marginal differences in gear XI vs XII shouldn't generate a sweeping victory in pvp, and it doesn't.
Also your ideology revolves around no leveling up, no work towards your character, you just want people to jump in at level 1 with no knowledge of the game and kill. A fundamentally flawed way of thinking.
In retrospect you want exactly what bug exploiters want, an I win Button.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Dont make sweeping conclusions, my actual premise is this:
No person should have to "earn" the ability to be competitive against someone else. That should be based purely on how they fly their ****ing ship.
Thats the whole flaw in the STO pvp system, as it has been utilized by the playerbase at large thus far. You either have super powerful 500 IRL dollar setup ships that smash face, or laughable stock stuff that couldnt fight out of a wet paper bag.
You know, because having to buy a ton of TRIBBLE just to be on par with someone else is conductive to gathering more people around the idea.
I never subscribed to the thought that "pay to win" has killed PvP in this game, but the more I get exposed to it, the more I start to believe it.
All the skill in the world you may have, til you meet the guy that spent a couple hundred bucks making his ship into something you would never be able to touch without doing the same thing.
Of course you dont have to open the wallet, but if you dont expect to spend 6 months dilithium grinding to get everything you need.
Deny it all you want, its the truth.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I do deny it, most of the people that win 100% of the time are exploiting known bugs.
You take "advantage" and exaggerate it to the extreme, you take disadvantage and make it sound like you are crippled and can't do anything. Does a fleet ship have more versatility than a VA standard ship? well duh, who cares? You should be working towards your build, not be handed it on a silver platter.
Granted you get things faster with $$ but you can still get them with EC and dilithium. So lets not make it sound like you are completely helpless to improve your build. Also this is ignoring the fact that rare vs very rare and XI vs XII very rares, differ very little. So if you can make compromises in that area, you can get a pretty good at fairly cheap.
So yes, I believe working towards a build is key to enrich the player experience. Rather than instantly being good because some kids cant handle improving their builds through hard work.
I dont believe in silver platter builds.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Ok then. Note what this thread is all about.
We need more pvpers? PvP has slowed down?
How do we get more?
Right now you turn to look at a player and say, hey we need you to pvp, but you wont be very good until youve spent a whole lot of time and money to do it.
Do they come?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You've got it wrong, people don't pvp because >it is a disorganized mess< Not because they aren't getting everything on a silver platter. and I already listed how, and I even added more when debating you.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Fine, I deny it. Because that is not truth.
It is synergy that determines how effective a person is, in PvP. A synergy between player, skills, equipment, ship, team (if applicable), etc.
I haven't spent as much money as half of the players here, yet I have a Recluse that can team heal very effectively. Total money invested: $30. Not $500. Just thirty.
Pay to win elevates lower skilled players to be more effective. It does NOT automatically make them the king of the hill.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Um I don't know where you've been but neither this game or swtor are dying, just because both games have some pvp problems doesn't kill the game and in fact I believe both are doing quite well.
its not like that. and this game has just about the most generious F2P ive ever seen. its really not that hard to get the 'good' stuff, its just a mater of time OR money. fleet ships just cost fleet marks EC for the fleet moduals, cheaper and better then getting a stock ship that cost dilithium if you dont have leveling tokens due to being a silver. its worth going gold till you get to top level, in a month you should be able to level between 4 or 8 characters depending on the time you got.
all the best gear costs in game money, its not that hard to get. all the top end ships are on the exchange too. rep leveling is just an ec and mark sink.
there is no buying skill, thats the 1 thing that cannot be made up for. or the majority of people that que up wouldn't pop like balloons despite them having all the best gear from grinding or paying to bypass the time grind.
i haven't read this thread for quite wile, but its proboly mostly just ******** that they die and everyone that doesn't is an exploiter. it cant be that they just really suck and dont actually understand the game they are playing at alll, noooo couldn't be that. but there are a ton of resources to address that, just in case that actually is the problem.
Thanks shotmedrunkdont ^o^
which makes me want to repeat myself to a certain other person in this thread "People that work for their builds should have an advantage over someone who doesnt."
Wouldn't thinking the opposite sound really self entitled?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
I agree that gear in STO is fairly easy to get. I don't agree with putting much of the games best gear behind Fleet walls though. That does nothing to help new players. I think most of that gear should be Multi personal rep unlocks. I would like to see Cryptic add multi personal rep fleet gear unlocks after they do another personal rep. Something like level 3 personal rep tiers to 5 get access to tier 3 fleet gear... level 4 get access to level 4.
Anyway to your point does it make people sound entitled to assume that a game with PvP would in fact balance it ? Yes I guess your right that is a very entitled position to take.
STO / Cryptic has been terrible at PvP balance, frankly that anyone that has started playing the last year has stuck around to get better at PvP amazes me. If I started playing a new previously existing MMO where I felt I would have to grind hard for 2-3 months to just get passable gear I wouldn't bother. Seriously I wouldn't not worth it to me when there are so many other very good pvp games out there where that isn't required of me.
What STO needs is a system like Anets GW2 PvP system. We need open zones (like kerrat, larger and better would be cool though) where you can run what ever you earn by grinding PvE. In PvP though you should be using a second paper doll of your ship... that can only equip PvP gear... of which there should be no advantage to any of it. If they feel the need to make money off of PvP they can do it through cosmetics. Perhaps a PvP cosmetic system that unlocks PvP paint jobs with shiny tech. (like the improved skins on the summer ship). They could also provide Fireworks. (Yes I am serious why not have different pvp fire works displays that have charges and put them in the zen store... who wouldn't want to drop a fire works vulcan hand salute on a victim... or a smiling gorn ect ect lol)
If the open PvP zone was good... they could still cash in on PvPers with the regular PvE junk toys... and for the PvP players that prefer there opponents not be handicapped due to being 4 years behind on the grind... they can take it to the arena system where all gear is equalized... and when they prove themselves the better player they can drop exploding Picard face palm displays over there victims respawn cameras. lol
I came very very close to not bothering to gear for PvP after my initial observations and some research. Six months later here I am, finally fricken ready.
And the grind burned me out on the game. Now I dont even feel like it most of the time.
So there is your new player. I am totally burned out but hey now im finally ready to fight you on even footing.
>=/
My personal testimony may not amount to much, considering I am a hardcore PvPer by background, but anyone with less of a drive wouldnt bother. Seriously, I cant see why they would.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Here's the thing, you're directing your righteous anger and indignation at the wrong people. Please point your soapbox at Cryptic not the players.
I do agree on that. The damned Reputation system takes too long to complete, that by the time you consider yourself even remotely ready for any type of PvP, you are burned out.
I experienced this while getting my Romulan character up to fully geared. Took her three months, and I only ended up playing her for two weeks.
EDCs anyone?
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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That is every game that has progression extended for content.... Why should the new players get everything faster when the veterans went through it also and spent the same time?? because the veterans were here first?? Pssh as if.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Because the elitism of this post doesnt equate to fresh players to shoot at. The harder you make it to par up for PvP, the fewer newbies you will get.
Unless youre ok with a dwindling veteran pvp population that isnt being replaced at the rate they are burning out or quitting...
And im sorry but perpetual noob stomping just sounds boring.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
And if they are going to perpetuate the mistake of making the grind too long because to do so would somehow "invalidate" the veterans who already have gear and are crying for new blood, then PVP deserves to stay deserted.
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For the life of me, I've got no idea why you replied to what I said with what you said...
edit: I thought it was pretty clear, but maybe this will help...?
PvE
Typically a case of doing Content A to get Gear X to do Content B to get Gear Y to do Content C to get Gear Z...etc, etc, etc. Tada, progression.
PvP
No, that's not a mistake that there's nothing there. There's nothing there. There's no progression.
oh yeah, it is elitist to expect them to work equally the same as us....
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Then stop complaining no one wants to PVP :P
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
I'm curious how they're handling the Voth Task Force Rep, since depending on how that goes - they're looking at changing the other three.
It's kind of put me in the position of not wanting to work on any of it...that wait and see thing.
Willard's 5/5/5, Prophet's 5/5/4, Plague's 5/5/3...New Rom, Omega, Nukara. Other guys are anywhere from 0 to 3...more toward 0 than 3.
I miss the old days when it was just a matter of amasing the credits that could take less then a month in order to get the gear you would desire/need for PVP.
Still not sure what they are planning to do for Season 8, rumors are flying about that.
But I know if they do another grind, I don't know if I'll want to participate in that, or anything else at this point.. Getting tired of Grinding for gear and it hurts having multiple characters.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
What am I complaining about except for the person who is mad that Cryptic didnt give them an NPC that had everything in the game for 0 EC?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Ill be blunt. Who gives a damn what stuff you have?
That should NOT matter to PvP. The fact it currently does in this game is one of the biggest reasons new players go the one and done route.
Losing is one thing, hopelessly getting bashed in the face by a total showoff with "stuff" is just taking the TRIBBLE.
Especially the ones that queue vs pugs just to noobstomp for easy quick kills. Where the hell is the competition in that? Go fight the other people with loads of "stuff" and leave the newbies alone. Youre only gonna drive them away.
Seriously, quit bringing up your "work" and hoard of stuff.
I dont want free stuff, I want PvP to not be DEFINED by what you have, because right now it is, and it is destroying any hope of it ever making a large scale comeback.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus