The scimitar IS NOT A CRUISER, anyone who says any different has no idea what they are talking about. It is meant to be an offensive juggernaut and a Destroyer, in the movie it used cannons and had a decent turn rate, just like it is in-game. Sorry to anyone who does not like the layout of the ship, but it is actually very similar to what it was in the Movie. The Gal-X does need a buff though, not likely going to happen though since cryptic ignores feedback.
How does you not liking the scimitar correlate to the game not looking like star trek fredscarran? The Scimitar is a canon ship
So what exactly makes the "player version" Vo'Quv not a dreadnought? And more importantly, why should we define 'player versions' of ship classes differently than NPC classes?
So that the "Dreadnought Cruiser" is also an NPC dreadnought is pretty much coincidence and does not say anything about the Federation Flagship at all.;)
Yeah, it kinda does. They're the same ship class. You're taking gameplay-story segregation and trying to make it canon. Sorry, it doesn't work like that.
The scimitar IS NOT A CRUISER, anyone who says any different has no idea what they are talking about. It is meant to be an offensive juggernaut and a Destroyer, in the movie it used cannons and had a decent turn rate, just like it is in-game. Sorry to anyone who does not like the layout of the ship, but it is actually very similar to what it was in the Movie. The Gal-X does need a buff though, not likely going to happen though since cryptic ignores feedback.
How does you not liking the scimitar correlate to the game not looking like star trek fredscarran? The Scimitar is a canon ship
In the movie it had more inertia than the enterprise (couldn't escape a ramming). And it was cloaked most of the time you couldn't tell how fast it could maneuver.
So is the JJ Abrams "canon", I still don't like it.
If all the dreadnoughts are supposed to be "balanced" like the D'Deridex is supposed to be the Romulan mirror to the Negh'var and Galaxy. Then WHY is the Scimitar about 10 times more powerful with a better tactical layout, better consoles and superior firepower. Anybody notice how ships like the Galaxy-X Dreadnought have been shafted again!
Why has there been no update to both Klingon and Federation Dreadnoughts (Possibly the Odyssey because its a 3 pack) to be competitive with this new ship.
Bet Cryptic won't do this... they are having too much fun milking the Romulan fanbase now. Hi Klinks, we're the Federation, we had our day but now we are going to join you in mediocrity.
Why does noone notice that the Galaxy-X is not supposed to be a true federation dreadnaught powerhouse, but in fact just a novelty ship.
It shouldn't even exist any more, because it only existed in some weird alternate timeline/all in Picard's mind/Q's fun time. The only reason it will ever get a buff is if it appears they will make a bunch of $ from it.
In the movie it had more inertia than the enterprise (couldn't escape a ramming). And it was cloaked most of the time you couldn't tell how fast it could maneuver.
So is the JJ Abrams "canon", I still don't like it.
it could not escape the crash because they were really close to each other already, the scimitar actually turned enough in that short time to avoid getting the bridge smashed in
Cryptic has said they are not allowed to use stuff from the alternate timeline in JJ trek.
Why does noone notice that the Galaxy-X is not supposed to be a true federation dreadnaught powerhouse, but in fact just a novelty ship.
It shouldn't even exist any more, because it only existed in some weird alternate timeline/all in Picard's mind/Q's fun time. The only reason it will ever get a buff is if it appears they will make a bunch of $ from it.
For all we know, Riker/picard had the first one commissioned because of the events in the episode, Riker is an admiral and assuredly has enough power to get one commissioned. you are sadly right about it probably never getting a buff though.
Stat-wise, you're right. But canonically, they're the exact same.
How can a non-canon ship have canonical charcteristics?
Another clear example: the NPC Miranda is called "frigate" while the Player version is called a "light cruiser".
Also, the "frigate" version has 4 weapon slots while the player version has 3.
So what exactly makes the "player version" Vo'Quv not a dreadnought? And more importantly, why should we define 'player versions' of ship classes differently than NPC classes?
First: the simple fact the player version is called "carrier" should give you a hint why it's not a dreadnought.
Also, the NPC version has a combintion of abilities (High Yield 3+Spread3) that is simply impossible on the player version.
The fact that the NPC ships have very different stats from the player versions is also a hint:
the NPC Vo'quv has only 5 weapon slots, the NPC Dreadnought Galaxy has only 7 while the Jupiter NPC has only 5 like the Vo'Quv.
Yeah, it does. They're the same ship class. You're taking gameplay-story segregation and trying to make it canon. Sorry, it doesn't work like that.
No, the Galaxy DN was added late in the game when the "dreadnought" type of ship already existed, but the slot was only occupied by the Jupiter.
The Dreadnought Galaxy was simply stuck into an existing category that happens to contain the same word.
Also, as I recall you're the one who tries to call the Oddy a dreadnought because its NPC version is called that way.
So you are the person who tries to take a gameplay-story segregation (which I didn't do, I brought it up to show a point) to use one half of it so that you can call the federation flagship a dreadnought.
I suggest you take you own advice.;)
it could not escape the crash because they were really close to each other already, the scimitar actually turned enough in that short time to avoid getting the bridge smashed in
Cryptic has said they are not allowed to use stuff from the alternate timeline in JJ trek.
Using canon as the sole argument for ship performance is ridiculous, or even most of the argument. The amount of acceleration displayed when ramming and pulling apart is several hundred magnitudes less than what it takes to maneuver around like that in the first place.
The Schmitar should rotate slower than the D'Deridex and have more inertia, not because it's "Canon" or even because it's physics, but because it's a gigantic unbalanced OP ship and it's ugly and eventually everyone's going to be flying one.
As far as physics is concerned the D'Deridex has higher rotational inertia which should mean slower turning (it takes more force to spin a hollow sphere than a solid sphere of the same mass and radius). If there's any ship that should turn slow as slow it's the D'Deridex. But for balance the Shmitar should turn slower.
Using canon as the sole argument for ship performance is ridiculous, or even most of the argument. The amount of acceleration displayed when ramming and pulling apart is several hundred magnitudes less than what it takes to maneuver around like that in the first place.
The Schmitar should rotate slower than the D'Deridex and have more inertia, not because it's "Canon" or even because it's physics, but because it's a gigantic unbalanced OP ship and it's ugly and eventually everyone's going to be flying one.
As far as physics is concerned the D'Deridex has higher rotational inertia which should mean slower turning (it takes more force to spin a hollow sphere than a solid sphere of the same mass and radius). If there's any ship that should turn slow as slow it's the D'Deridex. But for balance the Shmitar should turn slower.
Lol at trying to put physics in star trek, the other warbirds already squash that argument, the Scimitar started turning before it was even hit by the enterprise and turned enough that the bridge did not get destroyed . Yes it is OP, Cryptic will not change that, and at least it is OP because of stuff that it is supposed to have from the movie and not because of Cryptics changes (AKA JEMbug). BTW, All warbirds are basically OP at the moment anyway.
The ugly part is your opinion, I think it looks awesome.
EDIT: one more thing to point out, all or at least most of the cannon ships operate in a manner similar to what they did in the show, Scimitar and D'deridex included.
Another clear example: the NPC Miranda is called "frigate" while the Player version is called a "light cruiser".
Also, the "frigate" version has 4 weapon slots while the player version has 3.
What does PC/NPC function have anything to do with it? And about it's names - Yeah, that particular group of classes have two names, light cruiser and frigate. Why they're labeled differently for PC than for NPC is completely irrelevant.
You'll also notice that there's no specific names to the NPC frigates. Why? Because they're NPCs. Not because they're meant to be totally different starships in-continuity.
The fact that the NPC ships have very different stats from the player versions is also a hint:
the NPC Vo'quv has only 5 weapon slots, the NPC Dreadnought Galaxy has only 7 while the Jupiter NPC has only 5 like the Vo'Quv.
Stats do not matter. They're the same class. You're not giving a new argument, you're just repeating the same argument over and over. You're trying to canonize gameplay-story segregation.
No, the Galaxy DN was added late in the game when the "dreadnought" type of ship already existed, but the slot was only occupied by the Jupiter.
The Dreadnought Galaxy was simply stuck into an existing category that happens to contain the same word.
Also, as I recall you're the one who tries to call the Oddy a dreadnought because its NPC version is called that way.
So you are the person who tries to take a gameplay-story segregation (which I didn't do, I brought it up to show a point) to use one half of it so that you can call the federation flagship a dreadnought.
I suggest you take you own advice.;)
You don't apply gameplay-story segregation to your argument? Really? Let me break it down for you. You're trying to assert that the player versions of a particular ship class are to be treated as completely different entities to NPC versions of ships based solely on game mechanics. The player/NPC aspect is the 'gameplay' part. The ship classifications is the 'story' part. The 'treating them different' part is the segregation. So yes, you are encouraging gameplay-story segregation.
I'm not 'trying' to call the Odessey-class a dreadnought. I'm referring to it as a dreadnought because the Odyssey class is referred to as a dreadnought in-game. What you're doing is merely trying to say there's more than one type based on player/NPC status, when those variations exist solely because that we're players, and our brains function differently than the artificial intelligence of computers. Their stats were changed in-game to provide players a certain challenge level.
In the fiction though, do you honestly think that characters have any reason at all to differentiate between an Odyssey-class dreadnought and an Odyssey-class operations cruiser? Or a Vo-Quv dreadnought and a Vo-Quv carrier? No, to the characters, all Odysseys are dreadnoughts, because the Odyssey class is a dreadnought class. All Vo-Quvs are dreadnoughts because the Vo-Quv is a dreadnought class.
Whether it's an NPC Odyssey or a player Odyssey is completely and utterly irrelevant. Or to any class. Stats are irrelevant in this matter. PC/NPC status is irrelevant in this matter. The only thing that matters is that they're the same starship class, and whatever version gets called one name should be applied to the other.
Lol at trying to put physics in star trek, the other warbirds already squash that argument, the Scimitar started turning before it was even hit by the enterprise and turned enough that the bridge did not get destroyed . Yes it is OP, Cryptic will not change that, and at least it is OP because of stuff that it is supposed to have from the movie and not because of Cryptics changes (AKA JEMbug). BTW, All warbirds are basically OP at the moment anyway.
The ugly part is your opinion, I think it looks awesome.
EDIT: one more thing to point out, all or at least most of the cannon ships operate in a manner similar to what they did in the show, Scimitar and D'deridex included.
Car A starts accelerating towards car B.
Car B immediately sees this and starts accelerating away from Car A but can't escape and Car A crashes into it with great force.
Either 1) Car B's engine is weaker than Car A
Or 2) Car B's mass is greater than Car A
Car A starts accelerating towards car B.
Car B immediately sees this and starts accelerating away from Car A but can't escape and Car A crashes into it with great force.
Either 1) Car B's engine is weaker than Car A
Or 2) Car B's mass is greater than Car A
The two ships were already really close to each other, and by the time Shinzon realized what Picard was doing (shinzon was taken by surprise and did not think pcard was crazy enough to do that) not even the defiant could have turned fast enough to get away at that point, and the defiant is just an engine with guns and shields strapped to it.
The two ships were already really close to each other, not even the defiant could have turned fast enough to get away at that point, and the defiant is just an engine with guns and shields strapped to it.
It was the slowest collision in Star Trek I've ever seen. Even Grandma had enough time to react.
but he did not react. Shinzon was being stupid, watch the scene, the Enterprise was going full impulse right at it and it was still able to turn more than enough to keep the bridge relatively safe.
Well obviously it's more than the Schmitar could muster cause it rammed it because
A) The Schmitar had weaker engines or The Schmitar had more mass
Either way, it's a more ponderous vehicle so says the "Canon".
Shinzon was surprised and did not react until it was already on top of the scimitar, there was no way any ship could have avoided the Crash at that point.
And yes i agree the Sovereign should have a Bonus to ramming scimitars
Actually it was charging the thalaron pulse at the time, so it couldn't move regardless.
actually it did not start charging until after the crash, the reason they decided to use the pulse was because the Ram disabled the weapons and Shinzon was nearly dead anyway.
Shinzon was surprised and did not react until it was already on top of the scimitar, there was no way any ship could have avoided the Crash at that point.
And yes i agree the Sovereign should have a Bonus to ramming scimitars
He had plenty of time to react. And if he were flying a Star Trek Online Scmitar, that has lower inertia or better engines, he would have simply backed out and gotten away just fine and dandy.
I'm gonna have to wash the nerd off, after this conversation.
The Jupiter- and Odyssey-classes are both dreadnoughts in addition to the Galaxy-X and the Venture-X classes. Ironically gotten from following the link in your own post. Guess I'm not the one who can't read.
Both the Klingon and the Federation flagships are indeed dreadnoughts. And next time you feel like insulting childishly instead of doing your research, stop and think. It's embarrassing to even watch that.
That may very well be, I never clicked the link, however, the Scimitar is not the Romulan Republic Flagship.
*Edit* The Galaxy-X still needs a proper redo. Odyssey being a Dreadnought or not I've flown the Renegade Destroyer for far to long to retire her.
"The I.K.S. Bortasqu' is a Bortasqu' Dreadnought Battlecruiser under the command of Captain Koren and the flagship of the Klingon Defense Force in 2409."
"The captain and senior staff of the I.K.S. Bortasqu' flagship will be inviting all warriors of the Empire onto their bridge in order to introduce the valiant crew. "
Im aware, however its referred to as BOTH, and unfortunately it is still the DREADNOUGHT of the empire until either
A) A proper Flagship is released
b) A second Dreadnought is released.
The Bortasqu' is Officially the Klingon Dreadnought, Unofficially it is the Flag Ship.
This could mean a couple things.
1) There is a possibility Crytpic may not want to release separate ships for KDF. So they amalgamated the two entities.
2) It could also mean, just temporarily it is either Dreadnought, Or temporarily it is the Flag Ship until either an Independent Flag Ship or Independent Dreadnought are released.
The Link I provided, states CLEARLY what is the Dreadnought for All species. The bortasqu' Is listed among that list, and therefore is the Dreadnought.
It just so happens that Klingon's do not have a Flag Ship atm (or Dreadnought, whichever way you want to view it), so the Bortasqu's serves as the Command Ship/Dreadnought for the KDF.
The Jupiter- and Odyssey-classes are both dreadnoughts in addition to the Galaxy-X and the Venture-X classes. Ironically gotten from following the link in your own post. Guess I'm not the one who can't read.
Are they listed as Dreadnoughts for FEDERATION? No? then they are not the Federation Dreadnought.
No offense, but you were insulted by that guy because you are making a moot argument. That list shows What Race has what Ship as a Dreadnought. Not what constitutes as a Dreadnought. BUT WHO IS USING WHAT AS A DREADNOUGHT.
If the GORN suddenly use the Defiant as their Dreadnought, does that mean the Defiant is Star-fleet's Dreadnought? Derp... Good Grief dude.
I find it rather amusing how developed this debate about what is and what is not a dreadnought in STO has become, especially given Cryptic's not giving a damn when it comes to naming the ship classes, especially the NPC ones.
Also I can't stop laughing at everyone saying the Odyssey is a dreadnought. :P
Comments
How does you not liking the scimitar correlate to the game not looking like star trek fredscarran? The Scimitar is a canon ship
So what exactly makes the "player version" Vo'Quv not a dreadnought? And more importantly, why should we define 'player versions' of ship classes differently than NPC classes?
Yeah, it kinda does. They're the same ship class. You're taking gameplay-story segregation and trying to make it canon. Sorry, it doesn't work like that.
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In the movie it had more inertia than the enterprise (couldn't escape a ramming). And it was cloaked most of the time you couldn't tell how fast it could maneuver.
So is the JJ Abrams "canon", I still don't like it.
Why does noone notice that the Galaxy-X is not supposed to be a true federation dreadnaught powerhouse, but in fact just a novelty ship.
It shouldn't even exist any more, because it only existed in some weird alternate timeline/all in Picard's mind/Q's fun time. The only reason it will ever get a buff is if it appears they will make a bunch of $ from it.
it could not escape the crash because they were really close to each other already, the scimitar actually turned enough in that short time to avoid getting the bridge smashed in
Cryptic has said they are not allowed to use stuff from the alternate timeline in JJ trek.
For all we know, Riker/picard had the first one commissioned because of the events in the episode, Riker is an admiral and assuredly has enough power to get one commissioned. you are sadly right about it probably never getting a buff though.
How can a non-canon ship have canonical charcteristics?
Another clear example: the NPC Miranda is called "frigate" while the Player version is called a "light cruiser".
Also, the "frigate" version has 4 weapon slots while the player version has 3.
First: the simple fact the player version is called "carrier" should give you a hint why it's not a dreadnought.
Also, the NPC version has a combintion of abilities (High Yield 3+Spread3) that is simply impossible on the player version.
The fact that the NPC ships have very different stats from the player versions is also a hint:
the NPC Vo'quv has only 5 weapon slots, the NPC Dreadnought Galaxy has only 7 while the Jupiter NPC has only 5 like the Vo'Quv.
No, the Galaxy DN was added late in the game when the "dreadnought" type of ship already existed, but the slot was only occupied by the Jupiter.
The Dreadnought Galaxy was simply stuck into an existing category that happens to contain the same word.
Also, as I recall you're the one who tries to call the Oddy a dreadnought because its NPC version is called that way.
So you are the person who tries to take a gameplay-story segregation (which I didn't do, I brought it up to show a point) to use one half of it so that you can call the federation flagship a dreadnought.
I suggest you take you own advice.;)
Using canon as the sole argument for ship performance is ridiculous, or even most of the argument. The amount of acceleration displayed when ramming and pulling apart is several hundred magnitudes less than what it takes to maneuver around like that in the first place.
The Schmitar should rotate slower than the D'Deridex and have more inertia, not because it's "Canon" or even because it's physics, but because it's a gigantic unbalanced OP ship and it's ugly and eventually everyone's going to be flying one.
As far as physics is concerned the D'Deridex has higher rotational inertia which should mean slower turning (it takes more force to spin a hollow sphere than a solid sphere of the same mass and radius). If there's any ship that should turn slow as slow it's the D'Deridex. But for balance the Shmitar should turn slower.
Lol at trying to put physics in star trek, the other warbirds already squash that argument, the Scimitar started turning before it was even hit by the enterprise and turned enough that the bridge did not get destroyed . Yes it is OP, Cryptic will not change that, and at least it is OP because of stuff that it is supposed to have from the movie and not because of Cryptics changes (AKA JEMbug). BTW, All warbirds are basically OP at the moment anyway.
The ugly part is your opinion, I think it looks awesome.
EDIT: one more thing to point out, all or at least most of the cannon ships operate in a manner similar to what they did in the show, Scimitar and D'deridex included.
What does PC/NPC function have anything to do with it? And about it's names - Yeah, that particular group of classes have two names, light cruiser and frigate. Why they're labeled differently for PC than for NPC is completely irrelevant.
You'll also notice that there's no specific names to the NPC frigates. Why? Because they're NPCs. Not because they're meant to be totally different starships in-continuity.
That would imply that a ship cannot be both a dreadnought and a carrier. This is false.
So...?
Stats do not matter. They're the same class. You're not giving a new argument, you're just repeating the same argument over and over. You're trying to canonize gameplay-story segregation.
Again, so what?
You don't apply gameplay-story segregation to your argument? Really? Let me break it down for you. You're trying to assert that the player versions of a particular ship class are to be treated as completely different entities to NPC versions of ships based solely on game mechanics. The player/NPC aspect is the 'gameplay' part. The ship classifications is the 'story' part. The 'treating them different' part is the segregation. So yes, you are encouraging gameplay-story segregation.
I'm not 'trying' to call the Odessey-class a dreadnought. I'm referring to it as a dreadnought because the Odyssey class is referred to as a dreadnought in-game. What you're doing is merely trying to say there's more than one type based on player/NPC status, when those variations exist solely because that we're players, and our brains function differently than the artificial intelligence of computers. Their stats were changed in-game to provide players a certain challenge level.
In the fiction though, do you honestly think that characters have any reason at all to differentiate between an Odyssey-class dreadnought and an Odyssey-class operations cruiser? Or a Vo-Quv dreadnought and a Vo-Quv carrier? No, to the characters, all Odysseys are dreadnoughts, because the Odyssey class is a dreadnought class. All Vo-Quvs are dreadnoughts because the Vo-Quv is a dreadnought class.
Whether it's an NPC Odyssey or a player Odyssey is completely and utterly irrelevant. Or to any class. Stats are irrelevant in this matter. PC/NPC status is irrelevant in this matter. The only thing that matters is that they're the same starship class, and whatever version gets called one name should be applied to the other.
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Car A starts accelerating towards car B.
Car B immediately sees this and starts accelerating away from Car A but can't escape and Car A crashes into it with great force.
Either 1) Car B's engine is weaker than Car A
Or 2) Car B's mass is greater than Car A
The two ships were already really close to each other, and by the time Shinzon realized what Picard was doing (shinzon was taken by surprise and did not think pcard was crazy enough to do that) not even the defiant could have turned fast enough to get away at that point, and the defiant is just an engine with guns and shields strapped to it.
It was the slowest collision in Star Trek I've ever seen. Even Grandma had enough time to react.
As i just said, Shinzon had not realized what Picard was doing and did not react until the Enterprise was almost on top of them.
There was plenty of time to react. A borg cube could have run a couple circles around before they collided.
but he did not react. Shinzon was being stupid, watch the scene, the Enterprise was going full impulse right at it and it was still able to turn more than enough to keep the bridge relatively safe.
If that's full impulse it wouldn't be able to escape the gravity of a planet, and it would take weeks to travel between planets.
The enterprise was nearly disabled at the time, it was probably all it could muster.
Make it so!
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Well obviously it's more than the Schmitar could muster cause it rammed it because
A) The Schmitar had weaker engines or
Either way, it's a more ponderous vehicle so says the "Canon".
Actually it was charging the thalaron pulse at the time, so it couldn't move regardless.
Shinzon was surprised and did not react until it was already on top of the scimitar, there was no way any ship could have avoided the Crash at that point.
And yes i agree the Sovereign should have a Bonus to ramming scimitars
actually it did not start charging until after the crash, the reason they decided to use the pulse was because the Ram disabled the weapons and Shinzon was nearly dead anyway.
He had plenty of time to react. And if he were flying a Star Trek Online Scmitar, that has lower inertia or better engines, he would have simply backed out and gotten away just fine and dandy.
I'm gonna have to wash the nerd off, after this conversation.
Indeed, this would be awesome, I would ram them but I want to stick in them like a dartboard and self destruct. No backing out.
That may very well be, I never clicked the link, however, the Scimitar is not the Romulan Republic Flagship.
*Edit* The Galaxy-X still needs a proper redo. Odyssey being a Dreadnought or not I've flown the Renegade Destroyer for far to long to retire her.
Im aware, however its referred to as BOTH, and unfortunately it is still the DREADNOUGHT of the empire until either
A) A proper Flagship is released
b) A second Dreadnought is released.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Dreadnought
That site, is to show who has what as their Dreadnought. the Bortasqu' IS THE OFFICIAL DREADNOUGHT. Until later changed. Good Grief.
The Bortasqu' is Officially the Klingon Dreadnought, Unofficially it is the Flag Ship.
This could mean a couple things.
1) There is a possibility Crytpic may not want to release separate ships for KDF. So they amalgamated the two entities.
2) It could also mean, just temporarily it is either Dreadnought, Or temporarily it is the Flag Ship until either an Independent Flag Ship or Independent Dreadnought are released.
The Link I provided, states CLEARLY what is the Dreadnought for All species. The bortasqu' Is listed among that list, and therefore is the Dreadnought.
It just so happens that Klingon's do not have a Flag Ship atm (or Dreadnought, whichever way you want to view it), so the Bortasqu's serves as the Command Ship/Dreadnought for the KDF.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Dreadnought <<<<
DREEEEEAAADNOOOUUUGGHHHTTT LLLIIISSSTTT
Now, Is there anyone else I have to spoon feed?
Are they listed as Dreadnoughts for FEDERATION? No? then they are not the Federation Dreadnought.
No offense, but you were insulted by that guy because you are making a moot argument. That list shows What Race has what Ship as a Dreadnought. Not what constitutes as a Dreadnought. BUT WHO IS USING WHAT AS A DREADNOUGHT.
If the GORN suddenly use the Defiant as their Dreadnought, does that mean the Defiant is Star-fleet's Dreadnought? Derp... Good Grief dude.
Also I can't stop laughing at everyone saying the Odyssey is a dreadnought. :P