Gear-centric pvp isn't really my sort of thing. There is a distinct advantage people have in the wake of grinding out rep or otherwise having some kind of access to full fleet Mark XII's, not to mention the superior form and function of c-store ships (Would skirt the border of P2W if pvp were taken seriously).
Not much is bringing me into pvp in this game unless it is somehow standardized.
I enjoy the competition with real people, the rush of combat, the emotions involved when fighting a close match (win or lose), the fun of flying with my friends and finally the new friends I have made while taking part.
I "know" a lot of folks around here and have only run into a very few who were not friendly, helpful and good sports. This is the only MMO I have ever had the desire to pvp in and I do not see that changing. I (unfortunately) have literally become a "weekend warrior" when it comes to pvping, but I live for those moments with all you other crazy masochists. Fight well, my friends
My friends list outside of one RL friend, is composed entirely of folks I have struck up friendships with during pvp. Most of the time, ones that I have fought against. I came to this game three years ago during beta with the stereotypical view of "peeveepee-ers" and their general idiocy.The people I met here completely changed that view (at least in STO). For every legendary jerk I run across in OPVP, Arenas or C&H, I met 5 others telling them to stuff it and quit being a jerk.....
Two really great posts by someone who was once on one side of the fence, and is now on the other.
To anyone else,
PvP Bootcamp is open to all, and is a generally great experience. At worst you will learn some things about game mechanics that you might not have realized.
A little about me:
In my time playing STO I spent more time PvEing than I did PvPing until only fairly recently, I didn't have much time for it (became a daddy) and in general did not enjoy random PUG PvP. It wasn't until I found some friends and eventually a great fleet to PvP with that quite a lot of it clicked for me.
Thanks for the kind words I know that many folks haven't had the great luck that I have had with pvp in this game and I am truly sorry for that. Coming across as the "pvp sunshine and light brigade leader" wasn't ever my intention and there are frustrating times for me during my pvp sessions; but those times are always outweighed by the positive experiences I have gained from it. New folks, please hang in there and don't be afraid to ask questions or even compliment the guy who just disintegrated you with the grace and efficiency of a maestro... ya just might learn something and make a new friend. Works for me (usually).
New folks, please hang in there and don't be afraid to ask questions or even compliment the guy who just disintegrated you with the grace and efficiency of a maestro... ya just might learn something and make a new friend. Works for me (usually).
Definitely.
In one match, I chased after a ship that was pulling out of the main fight.
I thought they were running, but actually they quickly came back for a counter strike.
He nearly vaped me, and took me down to about 20% hull with a well timed BO & CRF.
The match then suddenly ended, as my team had gotten the final kill - but I sent that guy a message telling him what a great well timed BO that was, and that if the match had gone on another 30s I would have most likely been toast.
He said thanks, and then promptly send me a friend request.
True story, and I apologise if it comes across as me whining. I went to Otha Ground War Zone to do the 'Seize Enemy Emergency Stockpiles (Lt. General)" and "Good Luck Charm" missions. I'm not a PvP'er, I'm just there to shoot some Borg, achieve the objectives, finish the missions, get my dilithium and go - and when I notice someone else is there, I say something to that effect. What do they do?
They see that as an excuse to start hunting me, despite my repeatedly saying that I'm not there to PvP (and, admittedly, after about the second or third time of dying, losing my temper and calling them a jerk - I'll admit that.).
Finally, they kill me and make a smart-aleck remark about "Tal Shiar's Most Wanted got killed by a girl in a skirt" (Referring to the in-game title I was using at the time). I say to myself "Forget it", and leave. I haven't bothered with the War Zone missions since; It's a decently sized galaxy in the game, if people are going to act like that, I don't have to be around them.
I'll concede that, as others will probably say, I'm tarring all PvPers with the same brush. I can't really say anything in my defence against that. All I can say is that what little PvP I've experience the fringes of while in the War Zones does not incline me to join the full PvP experience.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I would love to pvp I pvp in every normal sub based mmorpg but......This is not a normal sub based rpg.This is a game with powerful items in the cash shop so to be competitive I would have to spend alot of real money.
Not everyone has 100s of pounds to spend to stay competitive.
Nothing worse then being wtfpwned by a wallet warrior you out skill.
If everyone was on equal footing and your gear was earned by hard work ingame then I would jump at the chance to pvp in this game.
O and also in this particular game it would cost more then buying wow and all its expansions and a sub just to get such items.
There's one thing that would bring me into pvp: Territory control on a massive scale.
I don't enjoy small scale pvp at all. 5v5 is too small, I want 50v50 (or more!). I also don't like pvp just for the sake of pvp. I want objective based pvp. Give me full on territory control that actually matters. Combine these two and that is what it would take to get me to pvp. I've been moonlighting in Planetside 2 for my massive scale pvp fix and omg I love it. Basically take that game and shove it in an STO skin and I'm golden. However I realize that doing that is completely not feasible for this game. It would most likely have to be a whole different game on it's own. So because of that I would say that getting me into pvp in STO with anything short of that is impossible I'm afraid.
True story, and I apologise if it comes across as me whining. I went to Otha Ground War Zone to do the 'Seize Enemy Emergency Stockpiles (Lt. General)" and "Good Luck Charm" missions. I'm not a PvP'er, I'm just there to shoot some Borg, achieve the objectives, finish the missions, get my dilithium and go - and when I notice someone else is there, I say something to that effect. What do they do?
It is a PvP zone, going in there and asking people not to kill you is a good way to make yourself a target.
still trying to decide if this is an honest thread trying to get more people into pvp for the game's sake or just some elitists fishing for cannonfodder.
ever since i read the post about being so helpful blabla signed with that ridiculous "helping people find the respawn" signature and people defending that guy i am tending towards fishing.
for the sake of the OPs question: if you grow up and behave like adults, i will join any match and let you shoot me, but i would have to be convinced first i am not running into a flame-fest like almost every open queue pvp match i have been in in any game
I would love to pvp I pvp in every normal sub based mmorpg but......This is not a normal sub based rpg.This is a game with powerful items in the cash shop so to be competitive I would have to spend alot of real money.
Not everyone has 100s of pounds to spend to stay competitive.
Nothing worse then being wtfpwned by a wallet warrior you out skill.
If everyone was on equal footing and your gear was earned by hard work ingame then I would jump at the chance to pvp in this game.
O and also in this particular game it would cost more then buying wow and all its expansions and a sub just to get such items.
I haven't spent any money on this game and have all the gear I need. One of my toon's uses all fleet gear and I haven't even done any reputation and it can still hang in there against good pvp'ers. The Accx2 Dmgx2 Advanced Fleet weapons are perfectly fine for pvp (I'd say Phasers and Antiprotons are probably the best). The best deflectors, engines, and shields can also be had through the fleet starbase (you just don't get any set bonuses, which is not that big of deal because of how good the gear is). You can get all of this stuff just by playing the game, earning fleet marks, and donating to your starbase for fleet credits.
A lot of Anti-PvP Trolls in this thread, acting like they don't PvP because it is all pay2win. heh
Little do they realize that a pure and simple straight meat and potatoes geared ship does very well in PvP, regardless of what they are up against. Unless of course, they just suck at this game, but think they are awesome because they've master the ESTF. Guess what, PvP is a completely different beast.
You have to know your ship builds.
You have to know other builds besides the ships you own.
You have to know what counters what skill and when is the best time to use it.
You have to work your power management.
And you have to know how to fly. This ain't no Counter Strike or Call of Duty. This is dog fighting and you have to stay frosty and think.
Honestly, any STO pilot will suck and die for about a month in PvP, because it will take you that long to master the things I listed above.
Losing is Learning. Stop complaining and go PvP queue or warzone.
Best is to warzone while queued.
The more you PvP, the faster you will learn how to kill, how not to die and who to watch out for..
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
PvP was fun for me before all the console nonsense. Many of us form private groups where, other than a specific ship, no "P2W consoles allowed". the matches are fun, tactical and fill up quick.
The consoles just make it look like a circus threw-up and its *so* chaotic as to be pointless. So, here's what would bring *me* back into PvP:
A match that either disables C-store items but not the actual ships (not going to happen) or a match where you can pick up certain ships, like bowling shoes in an alley, and force some kind of balance.
That's always been the problem in PvP: if you pay, you can compete. if you don't, you're done. Combine that with the idea that there isn't any real way to show a "winner". Sure, you can have a match that's "close" but have no idea who's actually helping by doing what, score-wise. Those PvP scoring mechanisms are pointless and hardly accurate.
Fix the way matches are scored to give a carrot to players and find *some* way to balance the maniacal chaos that isn't a strategic PvP at all...it's how fast can you click and what have you bought.
That may be fun for some but you can't exactly call that "competition".
And maps. jeez, more maps for PvP already. 3+ years and we only have the *same* maps to choose from?
still trying to decide if this is an honest thread trying to get more people into pvp for the game's sake or just some elitists fishing for cannonfodder.
It's an honest thread.
I want to see real player's responses as to why they PvP (the original thread) or why they do not PvP (this thread).
PvP needs players to play, and it needs new PvPers.
I'm curious what brings people to pvp or keeps them away from it, because I think bringing new players to PvP is important and because eventually Cryptic will do a PvP revamp aiming to try and bring non-pvpers into PvP.
The Tal Shiar lock box has done nothing to make me want to PvP more it has actually made me want to PvP less because of the Helmsman trait unlock. Having traits from a lock box really pissed me off. Traits should not be unlocked from lock boxes.
I love to PvP and it is usually the only playstyle I enjoy in a MMO, but that is the opposite case in STO.
What keeps me away from STO PvP?
The arena-style PvP game modes and, more importantly, the required min/maxing of ships and abilities to be competitive in PvP.
What do I want from STO PvP/What would make me play it?
I want a galactic territory conquest system, a dynamic storyline, huge battles that include PvE elements to both sides such as allies/enemies/supply transport raids, etc. Not only would PvP become something I would play regularly, it would be something I play exclusively. I also would play STO PvP if all bridge officer powers, playstyles, ships, and other build variables were viable. I hate being forced into a cookie cutter build to be competitive.
"You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."
PvP doesn't really hold interest for me because I dont really consider myself a gamer. STO is the first mmo I've ever played, and like others have said, I'm not much interested in being cannon fodder for experienced gamer types. If in do ever get into PvP, it would probably only ever be with my fleet. The PvP camp sounded intriguing, but I definitely don't have the time to commit. It would be cool if that eventually became a webinar.
Basically the existing random pvp battle is absolutely out of balance, that escorts kick the TRIBBLE of all other ships. Sure in 1 on 1 fight all classes seems to be well balanced----cruisers can heal fast, science ship can exploit the enemy. But in a 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 10 game, only escorts can kill and stay alive. Try fighting in an all-cruiser team against an all-escort team, whenever an escort is close to death, it simply takes off and there's almost nothing that could really trap it. And whenever a cruiser got fired upon by concentrated fire, it normally dies, because in a vary short duration the overwhelming fire power from 5 escorts can easily tear it apart.
The player requirement in STO in general has been lowered .
You level faster , STF's are easyer , everything is aimed at the "casual gaming experience" .
In PVP , it's just the opposite . The sharp opposite in fact .
And while the PVP bootcamp was an interesting experiment -- the end design of it was not just to to make a player better , but to attempt to bring them to the same level that the PVP community is at .
And to be honest , I don't want to play at that level .
It requires too much work , too much EC / Lobi , too much "polishing" of your ship + Boff's + Doff's -- and at the end of the day you still get creamed by a premade .
And that does not even cover the speed devils , the carrier spam , the uselessness of Engineers , the OP-ness of Tacs , what on the PVP forums ppl refer to as 'cheese' ,the power creep of the Reputations , and the near exclusive balance of all new powers for PVE alone (that just screws up PVP) more and more .
In short , space PVP has become stupid .
Mind you I respect ppl who stick with it .
I wish them the best .
But the PVP in STO is not for me . Not any more .
PVP might become popular if they introduce cookie cutter builds & powers , with minimal customization , and a separate skill tree . In short , PVP for dummies .
But this would be against the wishes of 90+% of the current PVP community .
I still have fun in lower level PVP from time to time , but I know that most "pro" PVP-ers are not about that these days , and those who try to bring back the "old days" by limiting this/that seem to always run into walls .
Weather effects on dynamic maps with star trek war objectives. Transport troops to a planet or whatever. The tv shows have plenty of travel to point a and press "f" like elements.
Make it all dynamic, dynamic spawns, dynamic background dynamic map colors.
That way you will never know the map and you can win in other ways than playing 4 vs 1.
It would add exploration, make space infinite and add a feeling of being at war doing battle objectives.
It could also be the answer for the lack of use for healers and tanks.
Most of the stuff is already in there, just slap some stuff together in some textboxes and bring it all together.
Basically the existing random pvp battle is absolutely out of balance, that escorts kick the TRIBBLE of all other ships. Sure in 1 on 1 fight all classes seems to be well balanced----cruisers can heal fast, science ship can exploit the enemy. But in a 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 10 game, only escorts can kill and stay alive.
I'm sorry but this is incorrect.
I play in a fleet that does premade 5v5 PvP vs. other fleets.
Only in PUGs will it seem like escorts are top dog (primarily because there is no coordination and no cross healing), once you get to games with real coordination, healing is the backbone of every winning team.
(cross) Healing, in STO, is significantly stronger than Damage.
Only SNB lets damage dealers score kills most of the time.
So Sci/Healer is the backbone.
It's the most important unit on the field, and almost every good 5 man team brings 3 of them - bringing more than 2 Escorts is an almost guaranteed liability that will see your team lose.
anybody going to adress the social aspect of people not pvp'ing?
the only responses i read were insurances that pvp community is helpful and so on. my point never was looking for help getting into the game. i already am and i am reasonably sure to not suck at it . it just sucks being around.
the responses tell me one thing, the people reading my posts and answering with reassurance they would help are supremely arrogant.
to stay on topic: social competence bootcamp would be a great idea.
A lot of Anti-PvP Trolls in this thread, acting like they don't PvP because it is all pay2win. heh
Little do they realize that a pure and simple straight meat and potatoes geared ship does very well in PvP, regardless of what they are up against. Unless of course, they just suck at this game, but think they are awesome because they've master the ESTF. Guess what, PvP is a completely different beast.
You have to know your ship builds.
You have to know other builds besides the ships you own.
You have to know what counters what skill and when is the best time to use it.
You have to work your power management.
And you have to know how to fly. This ain't no Counter Strike or Call of Duty. This is dog fighting and you have to stay frosty and think.
Honestly, any STO pilot will suck and die for about a month in PvP, because it will take you that long to master the things I listed above.
Losing is Learning. Stop complaining and go PvP queue or warzone.
Best is to warzone while queued.
The more you PvP, the faster you will learn how to kill, how not to die and who to watch out for..
This attitude is exactly what I never want to see, thus, I won't PVP. It's elitist. It's arrogant. It's "ha ha - I know more than you ever will."
About the "Stop complaining" remark - The OP asked people what it would take to get them to PVP. If you are taking offense at their opinions, aren't you basically just making this thread another PVP?
We need queues where premades cannot enter. That alone will not eliminate the skill gap between the experienced pvpers and everyone else, but at least the possibility exists that it might distribute skill more evenly across the teams.
As it stands the pugs may as well just take off their shields and let the premades get it over with quickly so they can all queue up again and hopefully get a more interesting match going. For most people that's not fun and after the third time or so fighting a premade in twice as many games most people just shrug and mentally cross off PvP as a viable activity in STO.
I play in a fleet that does premade 5v5 PvP vs. other fleets.
Only in PUGs will it seem like escorts are top dog (primarily because there is no coordination and no cross healing), once you get to games with real coordination, healing is the backbone of every winning team.
(cross) Healing, in STO, is significantly stronger than Damage.
Only SNB lets damage dealers score kills most of the time.
So Sci/Healer is the backbone.
It's the most important unit on the field, and almost every good 5 man team brings 3 of them - bringing more than 2 Escorts is an almost guaranteed liability that will see your team lose.
None of that means much to your average player who jumps into the queue solo, or maybe with another friend. And right now, there's a) too many issues and b) not enough incentive for most players to take PvP seriously enough to form up pre-mades with communication, coordination, and synergy. And why should they? There's literally no reason to, as things stand now.
You're talking about deliberately formed 5-man teams with casual players who aren't all that interested in PvP. It'd be like going into WoW and trying to get people into Battlegrounds by talking about Arena dynamics, composition, and strategy. I imagine they'd have to first want to PvP before they start taking it to the 5-man composition level.
I'm not a big fan of PVP. The only times I did it in STO were by mistake, meaning entering a PVP zone before I knew what it was.
Before that the last time I played PVP in any game was on Diablo 2 and the only circumstances in which that happened were:
-For fun with friends, to train our moves and our builds
-To show some humility to idiots who sometimes picked on my friends or other people who where doing PVE (in Diablo you could go hostile in a moments notice). My chars weren't PVP builds, nor "Elite", but were pretty decent and usually handled well.
I don't think most people who play PVP are there to bash at others and humiliate them, but there are always a few who think they are excepcional because they can win at this sort of think. Mind you that the variables are so great that a PVP match is never ballanced per se, therefore it's hard to determine if someone is really better than other.
A lot of Anti-PvP Trolls in this thread, acting like they don't PvP because it is all pay2win. heh
Little do they realize that a pure and simple straight meat and potatoes geared ship does very well in PvP, regardless of what they are up against. Unless of course, they just suck at this game, but think they are awesome because they've master the ESTF. Guess what, PvP is a completely different beast.
You have to know your ship builds.
You have to know other builds besides the ships you own.
You have to know what counters what skill and when is the best time to use it.
You have to work your power management.
And you have to know how to fly. This ain't no Counter Strike or Call of Duty. This is dog fighting and you have to stay frosty and think.
Honestly, any STO pilot will suck and die for about a month in PvP, because it will take you that long to master the things I listed above.
Losing is Learning. Stop complaining and go PvP queue or warzone.
Best is to warzone while queued.
The more you PvP, the faster you will learn how to kill, how not to die and who to watch out for..
you have to not suck at talking to people.
you have to at least try to not sound smug and condescending.
Some sense of faction individuality of play style and tactics would help as things are starting to feel vanilla, also I can sympathize with the daunting truth that one has to grind a lot of stuff, rep and the like to be competitive at the highest levels of PvP. It sucks.
More open PvP adventure zones would be cool.
Possibly some focus on PvP for a change would help draw people in to playing.
Things like kits and more ground options, new space maps and all sorts of other stuff thats been discussed inthe pvp forums.
Though its true what is said about PvP being a school of hard knocks. A new player will die alot before getting better at pvp.
Join PvP Bootcamp and it will help.
Real PvP has stakes, where the winner takes something from the loser.
STO has carebear pvp.
I agree.
I still PvP in STO (pretty much exclusively in Ker'rat), but I don't really give a toss about the outcome when I can just respawn after 15 seconds instead of having to re-ship and re-buy the fittings at a station several jumps away.
It has been mentioned several times so I may repeat: One queue for premade teams and one "pug" queue would be great!
Usually it will be a mess even for a good player who is in a pug team if he meets a good premade team. And to die 10 times within a couple of minutes is no fun at all.
Comments
Not much is bringing me into pvp in this game unless it is somehow standardized.
Two really great posts by someone who was once on one side of the fence, and is now on the other.
To anyone else,
PvP Bootcamp is open to all, and is a generally great experience. At worst you will learn some things about game mechanics that you might not have realized.
A little about me:
In my time playing STO I spent more time PvEing than I did PvPing until only fairly recently, I didn't have much time for it (became a daddy) and in general did not enjoy random PUG PvP. It wasn't until I found some friends and eventually a great fleet to PvP with that quite a lot of it clicked for me.
Ooops there I go, being all positive again!
Fight well all!
Definitely.
In one match, I chased after a ship that was pulling out of the main fight.
I thought they were running, but actually they quickly came back for a counter strike.
He nearly vaped me, and took me down to about 20% hull with a well timed BO & CRF.
The match then suddenly ended, as my team had gotten the final kill - but I sent that guy a message telling him what a great well timed BO that was, and that if the match had gone on another 30s I would have most likely been toast.
He said thanks, and then promptly send me a friend request.
True story, and I apologise if it comes across as me whining. I went to Otha Ground War Zone to do the 'Seize Enemy Emergency Stockpiles (Lt. General)" and "Good Luck Charm" missions. I'm not a PvP'er, I'm just there to shoot some Borg, achieve the objectives, finish the missions, get my dilithium and go - and when I notice someone else is there, I say something to that effect. What do they do?
They see that as an excuse to start hunting me, despite my repeatedly saying that I'm not there to PvP (and, admittedly, after about the second or third time of dying, losing my temper and calling them a jerk - I'll admit that.).
Finally, they kill me and make a smart-aleck remark about "Tal Shiar's Most Wanted got killed by a girl in a skirt" (Referring to the in-game title I was using at the time). I say to myself "Forget it", and leave. I haven't bothered with the War Zone missions since; It's a decently sized galaxy in the game, if people are going to act like that, I don't have to be around them.
I'll concede that, as others will probably say, I'm tarring all PvPers with the same brush. I can't really say anything in my defence against that. All I can say is that what little PvP I've experience the fringes of while in the War Zones does not incline me to join the full PvP experience.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Not everyone has 100s of pounds to spend to stay competitive.
Nothing worse then being wtfpwned by a wallet warrior you out skill.
If everyone was on equal footing and your gear was earned by hard work ingame then I would jump at the chance to pvp in this game.
O and also in this particular game it would cost more then buying wow and all its expansions and a sub just to get such items.
I don't enjoy small scale pvp at all. 5v5 is too small, I want 50v50 (or more!). I also don't like pvp just for the sake of pvp. I want objective based pvp. Give me full on territory control that actually matters. Combine these two and that is what it would take to get me to pvp. I've been moonlighting in Planetside 2 for my massive scale pvp fix and omg I love it. Basically take that game and shove it in an STO skin and I'm golden. However I realize that doing that is completely not feasible for this game. It would most likely have to be a whole different game on it's own. So because of that I would say that getting me into pvp in STO with anything short of that is impossible I'm afraid.
Mine Trap Supporter
It is a PvP zone, going in there and asking people not to kill you is a good way to make yourself a target.
ever since i read the post about being so helpful blabla signed with that ridiculous "helping people find the respawn" signature and people defending that guy i am tending towards fishing.
for the sake of the OPs question: if you grow up and behave like adults, i will join any match and let you shoot me, but i would have to be convinced first i am not running into a flame-fest like almost every open queue pvp match i have been in in any game
I haven't spent any money on this game and have all the gear I need. One of my toon's uses all fleet gear and I haven't even done any reputation and it can still hang in there against good pvp'ers. The Accx2 Dmgx2 Advanced Fleet weapons are perfectly fine for pvp (I'd say Phasers and Antiprotons are probably the best). The best deflectors, engines, and shields can also be had through the fleet starbase (you just don't get any set bonuses, which is not that big of deal because of how good the gear is). You can get all of this stuff just by playing the game, earning fleet marks, and donating to your starbase for fleet credits.
@DevolvedOne
Little do they realize that a pure and simple straight meat and potatoes geared ship does very well in PvP, regardless of what they are up against. Unless of course, they just suck at this game, but think they are awesome because they've master the ESTF. Guess what, PvP is a completely different beast.
You have to know your ship builds.
You have to know other builds besides the ships you own.
You have to know what counters what skill and when is the best time to use it.
You have to work your power management.
And you have to know how to fly. This ain't no Counter Strike or Call of Duty. This is dog fighting and you have to stay frosty and think.
Honestly, any STO pilot will suck and die for about a month in PvP, because it will take you that long to master the things I listed above.
Losing is Learning. Stop complaining and go PvP queue or warzone.
Best is to warzone while queued.
The more you PvP, the faster you will learn how to kill, how not to die and who to watch out for..
The consoles just make it look like a circus threw-up and its *so* chaotic as to be pointless. So, here's what would bring *me* back into PvP:
A match that either disables C-store items but not the actual ships (not going to happen) or a match where you can pick up certain ships, like bowling shoes in an alley, and force some kind of balance.
That's always been the problem in PvP: if you pay, you can compete. if you don't, you're done. Combine that with the idea that there isn't any real way to show a "winner". Sure, you can have a match that's "close" but have no idea who's actually helping by doing what, score-wise. Those PvP scoring mechanisms are pointless and hardly accurate.
Fix the way matches are scored to give a carrot to players and find *some* way to balance the maniacal chaos that isn't a strategic PvP at all...it's how fast can you click and what have you bought.
That may be fun for some but you can't exactly call that "competition".
And maps. jeez, more maps for PvP already. 3+ years and we only have the *same* maps to choose from?
It's an honest thread.
I want to see real player's responses as to why they PvP (the original thread) or why they do not PvP (this thread).
PvP needs players to play, and it needs new PvPers.
I'm curious what brings people to pvp or keeps them away from it, because I think bringing new players to PvP is important and because eventually Cryptic will do a PvP revamp aiming to try and bring non-pvpers into PvP.
What keeps me away from STO PvP?
The arena-style PvP game modes and, more importantly, the required min/maxing of ships and abilities to be competitive in PvP.
What do I want from STO PvP/What would make me play it?
I want a galactic territory conquest system, a dynamic storyline, huge battles that include PvE elements to both sides such as allies/enemies/supply transport raids, etc. Not only would PvP become something I would play regularly, it would be something I play exclusively. I also would play STO PvP if all bridge officer powers, playstyles, ships, and other build variables were viable. I hate being forced into a cookie cutter build to be competitive.
You level faster , STF's are easyer , everything is aimed at the "casual gaming experience" .
In PVP , it's just the opposite . The sharp opposite in fact .
And while the PVP bootcamp was an interesting experiment -- the end design of it was not just to to make a player better , but to attempt to bring them to the same level that the PVP community is at .
And to be honest , I don't want to play at that level .
It requires too much work , too much EC / Lobi , too much "polishing" of your ship + Boff's + Doff's -- and at the end of the day you still get creamed by a premade .
And that does not even cover the speed devils , the carrier spam , the uselessness of Engineers , the OP-ness of Tacs , what on the PVP forums ppl refer to as 'cheese' ,the power creep of the Reputations , and the near exclusive balance of all new powers for PVE alone (that just screws up PVP) more and more .
In short , space PVP has become stupid .
Mind you I respect ppl who stick with it .
I wish them the best .
But the PVP in STO is not for me . Not any more .
PVP might become popular if they introduce cookie cutter builds & powers , with minimal customization , and a separate skill tree . In short , PVP for dummies .
But this would be against the wishes of 90+% of the current PVP community .
I still have fun in lower level PVP from time to time , but I know that most "pro" PVP-ers are not about that these days , and those who try to bring back the "old days" by limiting this/that seem to always run into walls .
Weather effects on dynamic maps with star trek war objectives. Transport troops to a planet or whatever. The tv shows have plenty of travel to point a and press "f" like elements.
Make it all dynamic, dynamic spawns, dynamic background dynamic map colors.
That way you will never know the map and you can win in other ways than playing 4 vs 1.
It would add exploration, make space infinite and add a feeling of being at war doing battle objectives.
It could also be the answer for the lack of use for healers and tanks.
Most of the stuff is already in there, just slap some stuff together in some textboxes and bring it all together.
I'm sorry but this is incorrect.
I play in a fleet that does premade 5v5 PvP vs. other fleets.
Only in PUGs will it seem like escorts are top dog (primarily because there is no coordination and no cross healing), once you get to games with real coordination, healing is the backbone of every winning team.
(cross) Healing, in STO, is significantly stronger than Damage.
Only SNB lets damage dealers score kills most of the time.
So Sci/Healer is the backbone.
It's the most important unit on the field, and almost every good 5 man team brings 3 of them - bringing more than 2 Escorts is an almost guaranteed liability that will see your team lose.
the only responses i read were insurances that pvp community is helpful and so on. my point never was looking for help getting into the game. i already am and i am reasonably sure to not suck at it . it just sucks being around.
the responses tell me one thing, the people reading my posts and answering with reassurance they would help are supremely arrogant.
to stay on topic: social competence bootcamp would be a great idea.
This attitude is exactly what I never want to see, thus, I won't PVP. It's elitist. It's arrogant. It's "ha ha - I know more than you ever will."
About the "Stop complaining" remark - The OP asked people what it would take to get them to PVP. If you are taking offense at their opinions, aren't you basically just making this thread another PVP?
As it stands the pugs may as well just take off their shields and let the premades get it over with quickly so they can all queue up again and hopefully get a more interesting match going. For most people that's not fun and after the third time or so fighting a premade in twice as many games most people just shrug and mentally cross off PvP as a viable activity in STO.
None of that means much to your average player who jumps into the queue solo, or maybe with another friend. And right now, there's a) too many issues and b) not enough incentive for most players to take PvP seriously enough to form up pre-mades with communication, coordination, and synergy. And why should they? There's literally no reason to, as things stand now.
You're talking about deliberately formed 5-man teams with casual players who aren't all that interested in PvP. It'd be like going into WoW and trying to get people into Battlegrounds by talking about Arena dynamics, composition, and strategy. I imagine they'd have to first want to PvP before they start taking it to the 5-man composition level.
Before that the last time I played PVP in any game was on Diablo 2 and the only circumstances in which that happened were:
-For fun with friends, to train our moves and our builds
-To show some humility to idiots who sometimes picked on my friends or other people who where doing PVE (in Diablo you could go hostile in a moments notice). My chars weren't PVP builds, nor "Elite", but were pretty decent and usually handled well.
I don't think most people who play PVP are there to bash at others and humiliate them, but there are always a few who think they are excepcional because they can win at this sort of think. Mind you that the variables are so great that a PVP match is never ballanced per se, therefore it's hard to determine if someone is really better than other.
you have to not suck at talking to people.
you have to at least try to not sound smug and condescending.
whatever i said before - QED
More open PvP adventure zones would be cool.
Possibly some focus on PvP for a change would help draw people in to playing.
Things like kits and more ground options, new space maps and all sorts of other stuff thats been discussed inthe pvp forums.
Though its true what is said about PvP being a school of hard knocks. A new player will die alot before getting better at pvp.
Join PvP Bootcamp and it will help.
R.I.P
I still PvP in STO (pretty much exclusively in Ker'rat), but I don't really give a toss about the outcome when I can just respawn after 15 seconds instead of having to re-ship and re-buy the fittings at a station several jumps away.
Usually it will be a mess even for a good player who is in a pug team if he meets a good premade team. And to die 10 times within a couple of minutes is no fun at all.