last I checked. Lifetime was 299.99. 199.99 if you buy it on sale.
okay. so at that price, for sto to be break-even on value compared to the mmos made in Irvine, Seoul or Bellevue, you would have to play it religiously for your entire adult life.
lifetime sub is $150, it buys about 1/3-1/5th the content of superior mmos that cost $0-50 upfront and $0-15/month, and it doesn't include P2W items
mathematically, a lifetime sub is break-even if you plan on playing STO religiously for about 10-20 years
WHAT?
That doesn't make a LICK of sense. Basically, the question comes down to whether the Gold/Lifetime perks, etc. have any value at all to you. If yes, and if it's worth at least a monthly sub, then the math is simple:
Lifetime sub = $299
Monthly sub = $14.99
299 / 14.99 = ~20 months to break even.
But hey, keep making stuff up if it helps you make your point.
The reaction that this pack is getting makes it fairly clear how little effort people put into research, and how much they put into knee-jerk reacting.
The information has been out there almost as soon as the bundle was announced. But that hasn't stopped people from completely (and in my opinion unjustly) freaking out about it.
Every time I see an announcement on the front page that leaves me scratching my head I go to the Dev Tracker. So far it has a record of answering my questions nine times out of ten. Of course someone has to have asked my question.. but it keeps me from asking what has already been asked. I just think they inadvertantly make more work for their forum staff and uncessarily enrage the forums by not including the answers to common sense questions in the announcement.
My philosophy is don't poke the bear unless the bear must be poked.
Unless someone thinks poor BranFlakes likes dealing with forum rage..
the question is, why shouldn't I care? are you saying players should be indifferent to the good of the game?
obviously we want a better sto. don't you? or do you think we shouldn't? are you saying we should be okay with the game being not as good as it could or should be?
And so far I did not see a lot of people agreeing with you , only disagreeing. Argument going in your favour, right.
you don't see people, you see posters.
we have no way of knowing how many people are behind those posters.
many of these people post very consistently, with ideological regularity, and during regular work hours.
So is making assertions without any attempt to back them up.
Qualitative arguments on "value" are inherently relativistic. The person to whom you responded is making a qualitative, relativistic argument about value. While decrying relativism as a "last gasp" argumentative tactic.
So, there's that.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Q: How can I claim my Legacy/ Starter Pack rewards in-game?
A: All of the rewards will be claimable within the in-game C-Store upon the release of the Legacy of Romulus Expansion on May 21st, 2013.
So yeah you're all set to go. It will all be there for you once it all goes live.
okay. so at that price, for sto to be break-even on value compared to the mmos made in Irvine, Seoul or Bellevue, you would have to play it religiously for your entire adult life.
those are the numbers; those are the facts.
I do not really want to play MMos made in Irvine, Seoul, and Bellevue. They do not interest me. And I do not think a lot of people care about them here.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Every time I see an announcement on the front page that leaves me scratching my head I go to the Dev Tracker. So far it has a record of answering my questions nine times out of ten. Of course someone has to have asked my question.. but it keeps me from asking what has already been asked. I just think they inadvertantly make more work for their forum staff and uncessarily enrage the forums by not including the answers to common sense questions in the announcement.
My philosophy is don't poke the bear unless the bear must be poked.
Unless someone thinks poor BranFlakes likes dealing with forum rage..
your post seems to have nothing to do with the topic. all you say is that pwe can do no wrong.
I find it curious you have so much sympathy for some random guy on the internet and so little sympathy for the playerbase that keeps him out of the homeless shelter by paying for the food in his fridge
Just how is a discount pack hurting the playerbase? Really?
The only "player hurting" items in the game are those annoying party poppers, and even then they are only just annoying, and cant actually do any harm.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I do not really want to play MMos made in Irvine, Seoul, and Bellevue. They do not interest me. And I do not think a lot of people care about them here.
your "opinion" (assuming it is "your" opinion) is in the extreme minority; players those mmos outnumber sto players by about 50:1, and the majority of sto players play one or more of those games
you are trying to puff up your personal opinion by claiming that it is the opinion of an unspecified multitude. this is something that political extremists, fringe lobbyists, and PR hacks do to make their biased views appear more valid.
it corroborates my observation that you said how many people you see and not how many posters.
lifetime sub is $150, it buys about 1/3-1/5th the content of superior mmos that cost $0-50 upfront and $0-15/month, and it doesn't include P2W items
mathematically, a lifetime sub is break-even if you plan on playing STO religiously for about 10-20 years
Perhaps I'm wrong but, since the cost of subbing to STO is $15 per month, based on your own numbers above you "break-even" at 10 months if you buy a LTS instead of subbing (I was sure it was $300 so 20 months but I could be wrong). $50 up front and $15 per month for your other top example, over the same length of time, is $200, isn't it? And it only keeps increasing the longer you play. Your $150 with STO is FOREVER and all new content is free! Only shiny stuff is extra. I could point out you can have almost everything for free in STO but you did say "elite subscriptions" so I won't :rolleyes:
Also, I should like to point out that your assertion that STO has about 1/3 to 1/5 the content of another as-yet-unnamed "superior" mmo is about to be nullified somewhat by the addition of lvls 1-21 KDF content and lvls 1-40 Romulan content (before Romulans move to doing the shared FEs like the KDF already has). In addition, STO is adding new ships, improving its UI, character creator, improving VO with the new content with Denise Crosby, hopefully increasing options for KDF customisation ship and toon-wise along with new episodes planned over the next 6 months.
If you've already paid your LTS for STO then congratulations on all the free stuff you get to enjoy. Now let some of us pay for the extra bits we want without insulting our intelligence, would you please?
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
That doesn't make a LICK of sense. Basically, the question comes down to whether the Gold/Lifetime perks, etc. have any value at all to you. If yes, and if it's worth at least a monthly sub, then the math is simple:
Lifetime sub = $299
Monthly sub = $14.99
299 / 14.99 = ~20 months to break even.
But hey, keep making stuff up if it helps you make your point.
No, you see, he's made up an arbitrary "value" for what the worth of a sub to STO is (apparently about $1/month), and then is basing all of his calculations off that.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
your opinion is in the extreme minority; players those mmos outnumber sto players by about 50:1, and the majority of sto players play one or more of those games
you are trying to puff up your personal opinion by claiming that it is the opinion of an unspecified multitude. this is something that political extremists, fringe lobbyists, and PR hacks do to make their biased views appear more valid.
it corroborates my observation that you said how many people you see and not how many posters.
Yet you claim yours to be a really specific magnitude without any proof? Yeah... right. :rolleyes:
Then show proof what you say has any basis of truth. If you have some. Which I doubt.
And again, name calling, implying that I am some sort of fringe lobbyist. How mature of you.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Qualitative arguments on "value" are inherently relativistic. The person to whom you responded is making a qualitative, relativistic argument about value. While decrying relativism as a "last gasp" argumentative tactic.
wrong
amount of content, graphical quality, marginal control and number of bugs are all quantitative. subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative. subjective is not a synonym for qualitative. you are using the verbiage of dialectics but doing so wrongly.
in plain english, sto is less, lower quality, more expensive, and it holds the game back from its full potential.
lol @ all the LTS whining and moaning because they don't get moar free stuff. Lets face it, for those of you who have been playing since beta and all the other things you like to brag about - you've been milking the LTS for far too long now. Stop turning up your nose at silver players, some of us have paid a lot more than the price of LTS in zen over the years!
As for the actual package, I don't want every C-store ship and a lot of junk so I'll pass, and selectively buy the things I want/need after they've been reviewed and tested and I've read feedback on the forums.
However, I will buy the starter pack to show my support. It seems like a reasonably good deal, $20 for a T1 and a T5 ship with a title, works for me.
Well, I think the pack is great, if you look at the pricing of the FED and KDF ships, the Price for the ships alone makes it worth while. Al-tho i wish us Lifers would get a discount on this pack, i do have to say i will prob buy it just because im a STO addict.
Remember people, you are not the ones making this game, yes you play it, I personally like what PW is doing with STO by far the best MMO i have played in a long time. if you don't like what PW is doing, go play Minecraft or Pokemon.
Lakara, Fleet Leader "The Varden"
SIN, Fleet Leader "House of Varden"
Well, I think the pack is great, if you look at the pricing of the FED and KDF ships, the Price for the ships alone makes it worth while. Al-tho i wish us Lifers would get a discount on this pack
Why? Why should LTS get a discount? I don't get it at all. You've never had a discount on C-store items before, or on C-store bundles, or any other promotion they happen to be running.
I was wondering why can't we use zen to purchase the legacy starter pack?
I bought a bunch of zen a little while ago and I'm now kicking myself because I've already spent my self imposed entertainment budget. It would be really nice to spend the money I've already put in the game towards the legacy pack. Instead of just 125$ could give the option to buy it for 12500 zen. Cryptic offers almost all their other starter packs and ship packs for zen, with the exception of the steam starter pack (which I got for $12.50 when steam had a sale, easily the best game purchase I ever made and then some ).
It would also be convenient to consolidate the payment process as buying zen is just a few clicks of a button (The less time you give people to think about the purchase the higher amount of impulse buys ).
On an unrelated note, now that Romulans and Feds get a starter pack isn't it time for the Klingons to get an awesome pack as well? :P
If I'm reading this right these are preorders of what's to come for Romulans in the C-store. IF that's the case I'm fine with it because I've paid well over $124 for my current KDF and Fed C-store unlocks.
amount of content, graphical quality, marginal control and number of bugs are all quantitative. subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative. subjective is not a synonym for qualitative. you are using the verbiage of dialectics but doing so wrongly.
in plain english, sto is less, lower quality, more expensive, and it holds the game back from its full potential.
"amount of content, graphical quality, marginal control and number of bugs are all quantitative"
Cool. Please give us the number of bugs in each of the products you are comparing.
Also the numeric evaluation of the graphical quality of same and how it is calculated.
And also the numbers for amount of content.
Oh wait - you don't have those numbers? Then your analysis is just estimates and hypotheticals. So glad you don't do *my* company's books.
"subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative"
ROFL.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Yet you claim yours to be a really specific magnitude without any proof? Yeah... right. :rolleyes:
Then show proof what you say has any basis of truth. If you have some. Which I doubt.
And again, name calling, implying that I am some sort of fringe lobbyist. How mature of you.
when I was in elementary school, I got a time-out for calling another boy a lobbyist. "TEACHER TEACHER, ETHAN CALLED ME A LOBBYIST, HE'S CALLING NAMES!"
no, really. do you believe me? or do you think it's not name-calling after all, merely a valid comparison?
proof? so you don't believe that the mmos made in irvine, seoul and bellevue have many times sto's playerbase? or are you just going through the motions of debate when in reality you are willing to say absolutely anything to defend PWE?
Because most people's Zen comes from Dilithium grinding, and the Packs are already discounted. Allowing them to be purchased with Zen would be like giving someone a double-discount - and Cryptic does want to make some money on the Packs.
You can always buy the individual items from the C-Store with Zen once LoR launches.
And I wouldn't be surprised to see a KDF Starter Pack getting released soon too.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
amount of content, graphical quality, marginal control and number of bugs are all quantitative. subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative. subjective is not a synonym for qualitative. you are using the verbiage of dialectics but doing so wrongly.
in plain english, sto is less, lower quality, more expensive, and it holds the game back from its full potential.
You once again miss out on things like IP, playstyle, and so on. WoW certainly has bad graphics, but it is very popular.
You also seem to assign no value to such things as ease of levelling, ease of getting high end items, or even the very fact that alongside with TOR of Star Wars and Lord of Rings Online, this game has one of the most legendary IPs , Star Trek.
"subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative" That does not make any sense.
I think your big words backfired on you. Don't use them if you can not use them.
Let me give you a quote. "That sentence had too many syllables. Apologize!"
Edit:
Ahem... I said not many of STO's players play those three MMOs you dare not name. Can you offer any proof they do?
As far as non-STO players who play them... I hope they have fun. Each person has a different taste in games.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Just because some pixels cost X amount on Z-store doesn't mean they're worth a dime
You must be a broken record because I EXPLAINED what you quoted. But you seem to cherry pick what you want to address to give the illusion that you have an undefeatable point. Your ability to troll is weak.
Comments
As the other guy said, the only exclusive thing is the titles.
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
okay. so at that price, for sto to be break-even on value compared to the mmos made in Irvine, Seoul or Bellevue, you would have to play it religiously for your entire adult life.
those are the numbers; those are the facts.
Thanks! And great Avatar!
WHAT?
That doesn't make a LICK of sense. Basically, the question comes down to whether the Gold/Lifetime perks, etc. have any value at all to you. If yes, and if it's worth at least a monthly sub, then the math is simple:
Lifetime sub = $299
Monthly sub = $14.99
299 / 14.99 = ~20 months to break even.
But hey, keep making stuff up if it helps you make your point.
Every time I see an announcement on the front page that leaves me scratching my head I go to the Dev Tracker. So far it has a record of answering my questions nine times out of ten. Of course someone has to have asked my question.. but it keeps me from asking what has already been asked. I just think they inadvertantly make more work for their forum staff and uncessarily enrage the forums by not including the answers to common sense questions in the announcement.
My philosophy is don't poke the bear unless the bear must be poked.
Unless someone thinks poor BranFlakes likes dealing with forum rage..
the question is, why shouldn't I care? are you saying players should be indifferent to the good of the game?
obviously we want a better sto. don't you? or do you think we shouldn't? are you saying we should be okay with the game being not as good as it could or should be?
you don't see people, you see posters.
we have no way of knowing how many people are behind those posters.
many of these people post very consistently, with ideological regularity, and during regular work hours.
Qualitative arguments on "value" are inherently relativistic. The person to whom you responded is making a qualitative, relativistic argument about value. While decrying relativism as a "last gasp" argumentative tactic.
So, there's that.
Spock's Brain.
Haha thanks!
Oh and hey I found this for ya in the FAQ thread:
So yeah you're all set to go. It will all be there for you once it all goes live.
Mine Trap Supporter
I do not really want to play MMos made in Irvine, Seoul, and Bellevue. They do not interest me. And I do not think a lot of people care about them here.
your post seems to have nothing to do with the topic. all you say is that pwe can do no wrong.
I find it curious you have so much sympathy for some random guy on the internet and so little sympathy for the playerbase that keeps him out of the homeless shelter by paying for the food in his fridge
The only "player hurting" items in the game are those annoying party poppers, and even then they are only just annoying, and cant actually do any harm.
your "opinion" (assuming it is "your" opinion) is in the extreme minority; players those mmos outnumber sto players by about 50:1, and the majority of sto players play one or more of those games
you are trying to puff up your personal opinion by claiming that it is the opinion of an unspecified multitude. this is something that political extremists, fringe lobbyists, and PR hacks do to make their biased views appear more valid.
it corroborates my observation that you said how many people you see and not how many posters.
the titles only rest will be on cstore
most likely the titles
system Lord Baal is dead
I name-called? Don't think so.
And you certainly implied that anyone who finds value in C-Store purchases is a fool.
Perhaps I'm wrong but, since the cost of subbing to STO is $15 per month, based on your own numbers above you "break-even" at 10 months if you buy a LTS instead of subbing (I was sure it was $300 so 20 months but I could be wrong). $50 up front and $15 per month for your other top example, over the same length of time, is $200, isn't it? And it only keeps increasing the longer you play. Your $150 with STO is FOREVER and all new content is free! Only shiny stuff is extra. I could point out you can have almost everything for free in STO but you did say "elite subscriptions" so I won't :rolleyes:
Also, I should like to point out that your assertion that STO has about 1/3 to 1/5 the content of another as-yet-unnamed "superior" mmo is about to be nullified somewhat by the addition of lvls 1-21 KDF content and lvls 1-40 Romulan content (before Romulans move to doing the shared FEs like the KDF already has). In addition, STO is adding new ships, improving its UI, character creator, improving VO with the new content with Denise Crosby, hopefully increasing options for KDF customisation ship and toon-wise along with new episodes planned over the next 6 months.
If you've already paid your LTS for STO then congratulations on all the free stuff you get to enjoy. Now let some of us pay for the extra bits we want without insulting our intelligence, would you please?
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
No, you see, he's made up an arbitrary "value" for what the worth of a sub to STO is (apparently about $1/month), and then is basing all of his calculations off that.
Yet you claim yours to be a really specific magnitude without any proof? Yeah... right. :rolleyes:
Then show proof what you say has any basis of truth. If you have some. Which I doubt.
And again, name calling, implying that I am some sort of fringe lobbyist. How mature of you.
wrong
amount of content, graphical quality, marginal control and number of bugs are all quantitative. subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative. subjective is not a synonym for qualitative. you are using the verbiage of dialectics but doing so wrongly.
in plain english, sto is less, lower quality, more expensive, and it holds the game back from its full potential.
As for the actual package, I don't want every C-store ship and a lot of junk so I'll pass, and selectively buy the things I want/need after they've been reviewed and tested and I've read feedback on the forums.
However, I will buy the starter pack to show my support. It seems like a reasonably good deal, $20 for a T1 and a T5 ship with a title, works for me.
Kirk's Protege.
Remember people, you are not the ones making this game, yes you play it, I personally like what PW is doing with STO by far the best MMO i have played in a long time. if you don't like what PW is doing, go play Minecraft or Pokemon.
SIN, Fleet Leader "House of Varden"
Why? Why should LTS get a discount? I don't get it at all. You've never had a discount on C-store items before, or on C-store bundles, or any other promotion they happen to be running.
Kirk's Protege.
I bought a bunch of zen a little while ago and I'm now kicking myself because I've already spent my self imposed entertainment budget. It would be really nice to spend the money I've already put in the game towards the legacy pack. Instead of just 125$ could give the option to buy it for 12500 zen. Cryptic offers almost all their other starter packs and ship packs for zen, with the exception of the steam starter pack (which I got for $12.50 when steam had a sale, easily the best game purchase I ever made and then some
It would also be convenient to consolidate the payment process as buying zen is just a few clicks of a button (The less time you give people to think about the purchase the higher amount of impulse buys
On an unrelated note, now that Romulans and Feds get a starter pack isn't it time for the Klingons to get an awesome pack as well? :P
"amount of content, graphical quality, marginal control and number of bugs are all quantitative"
Cool. Please give us the number of bugs in each of the products you are comparing.
Also the numeric evaluation of the graphical quality of same and how it is calculated.
And also the numbers for amount of content.
Oh wait - you don't have those numbers? Then your analysis is just estimates and hypotheticals. So glad you don't do *my* company's books.
"subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative"
ROFL.
when I was in elementary school, I got a time-out for calling another boy a lobbyist. "TEACHER TEACHER, ETHAN CALLED ME A LOBBYIST, HE'S CALLING NAMES!"
no, really. do you believe me? or do you think it's not name-calling after all, merely a valid comparison?
proof? so you don't believe that the mmos made in irvine, seoul and bellevue have many times sto's playerbase? or are you just going through the motions of debate when in reality you are willing to say absolutely anything to defend PWE?
You can always buy the individual items from the C-Store with Zen once LoR launches.
And I wouldn't be surprised to see a KDF Starter Pack getting released soon too.
You once again miss out on things like IP, playstyle, and so on. WoW certainly has bad graphics, but it is very popular.
You also seem to assign no value to such things as ease of levelling, ease of getting high end items, or even the very fact that alongside with TOR of Star Wars and Lord of Rings Online, this game has one of the most legendary IPs , Star Trek.
"subjective quantities are quantitative not quantitative" That does not make any sense.
I think your big words backfired on you. Don't use them if you can not use them.
Let me give you a quote. "That sentence had too many syllables. Apologize!"
Edit:
Ahem... I said not many of STO's players play those three MMOs you dare not name. Can you offer any proof they do?
As far as non-STO players who play them... I hope they have fun. Each person has a different taste in games.