oh for christ sake, they made it worse? i thought they were trying to promote use of other EPt skills, now they have practically bared their use by the sounds of it. about to jump on tribble and see how this works with damage control and tech doffs
Fair enough. That's what I meant by chaining EPtS i.e. using 2 copies. and yes there definetely is that 5 second CD at the end of each 45 seconds.
What I'm worried about, though, is that if you want to keep the EPtS buff for as long as possible, you won't be able to use any other EPtX ability apart from the 2 versions of EPtS. Using any other Emergency power would severly hamper your shield resist for a good 10 seconds.
The 5 second gap isn't a hard cooldown, it's a result of the 45 second cooldown which can be reduced. It's now 20 second shared/45 single power. So:
1. EPtSa (start 20 duration 20 shared same, 45 single a)
2. EPtSb (start 20 duration 20 shared same, 45 single b, 25 single a)
All that's needed is a 5 second reduction of EPtS single by the time EPtSb shared expires and you get
3. EPtSa (start 20 second shared same, 25 single b, 45 single a)
Then repeat.
Mix abilities are much more difficult to chain now as pointed out. The cooldown reduction would need to be 25 seconds. Dual aux2bat builds may be able to pull this off though depending on playstyle and timing.
EPtS (start 15 global, 20 share, 20 duration, single 45 seconds)
2xaux2batt
EPtX (new 15 global, 5 EPtS duration, 3=(.4*45-15) second EPtS cooldown or 15 depending if EPtX used, 5 second EPtS cooldown for same ability which is > the 3 second timer) basically if EPTx is used there's the 10 second gap viral mentioned. But, the choice can be there to chain a single copy if using dual aux2batt builds.
Again, instead of getting the repair bonus every 30 seconds, it's every 20 seconds. Tanking is boosted. This makes w/e gains from 20 second EPtW bonus damage pointless unless it's part of a spike/burst build hit&run build, making DoT pressure damage less helpful.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Great change if they had the stones to see it through...
and well they don't.
Ye really great for ships with 3 engineering ensigns :rolleyes:
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
No, it was great for every defense score tanking escort tac and decloak burst BOPs. Everyone else went from "a chance to fight back" to "target dummy". Anything that defended itself by mitigating damage which is anything not a fast escort died with pitiful ease.
New changes changed not a single thing anyone was complaining about.
Great change if they had the stones to see it through...
and well they don't.
dont get your hopes up. if you use 2 differnt types of EPt, the 10 seconds remains. so much for encouraging their use, they just shot that in the foot
go use EPtE in an escort on tribble if you havent already everyone, its like beter then APO now. trades 24% damage buff for moveing 20 units faster, that speed buff is not effected by TB or EWP ether.
escorts haven't just been buffed, they have been squared. they are so unbelievably more powerful now its insane. and cruisers are unbelievably helpless
The easy solution had been fom the very beginning to bump everything to 30s.
Moving everything to 20s without lowering the system cooldown to 10s is a really bad idea. And all of this because they let the intern rebalance EPtX and he wasn't told to look at Snix' big cooldown table or learn a little bit about the different flavours of EPtX-based builds...
I thought it couldn't get much worse than "oops, you mean reducing damage by 10% means multiplying by .9 and not by .1?", but apparently Cryptic boldly goes where no developer has gone before.
Great change if they had the stones to see it through...
and well they don't.
Yup. Went from a massive reduction to sustain and an indirect buff to snoozers (mostly because it would punish escorts which lack as many options to close the tank gap and buffs/nerfs are all relative) to a massive nerf to anything running more than one EPtX power (wonder who those ships are, oh right cruisers) and a minor increase to sustain thanks to the heal of EPtS.
This shows just how out of touch they really are IMHO. For a moment I was hoping they were planning to re-evaluate the 'team' abilities now I just hope they leave them be.
I have to ask how you stack Omegas? As far as I can tell the best you can do is run Delta or beta between Omegas, I have yet to see how you can run Omegas back to back. If there's a way let us baddies know! lol
50% up time with one copy is broken... thank the doff system for that.
You can argue that its not... but it is.
My omega 3 being up 50% of the time is just silly.
You have at that point survived in a PvP engagement for north of 2 min.... in any other game besides STO that would be considered ridiculous. In every other MMO if you have failed to kill your opponent in 2 min you 100% deserve to get blowed up or bleed to death.
........
I love this change in that perhaps at last people will have to point counter point a bit more... it happens in the highest level PvP matches... and dog fights between very good players... 99% of this game though doesn't involve any of that game play.
I think that's exactly what most people DON'T want to do. The way you talk it really seems to me that you probably don't belong in a game like STO, at least not for its PvP. WoW has a system a lot like what you describe and it also has a rigid role system, something you also seem to want (apologies if I confuse you with another poster, its hard to keep track in these mega threads)
Action, counter, counter to the counter, counter o the counter squared, etc. just doesn't seem to jive with the direction STO is going at all. Maybe it was like that once but no matter what re balancing they try to do now their expanding rep system and its passives will only ever continue to make a mess of PvP. Eventually we'll get to a point where you have so many passives the effect of boff powers may simply be the cherry at the top! Of course, they can't re-balance things too much or their rep system would collapse and lets not even talk of what happens if things just get overall tougher for the new player that doesn't have the passives. Its a mess alright, but it will be an even bigger mess for PvP, so i urge to reconsider your long term plans concerning STO. I just don't see it being a place to PvP at all.
There is a possibility they are trying to reign in resists (personally I still hold this was all a throwaway decision designed to simplify things for the new players they hope to bring in with their "xpac") but its a self destructive move since the mayor draw to their Rep System IS the defense passives, more than the gear itself. After all, you don't need new MK12 weapons but you will always want new passives. Passives they can't nerf or make insignificant by buffing everything else or they and more importantly their rep system looses all credibility.
Not trying to be a downer or anything, I just really hate to see people that love something stick around to see it go down in flames when nothing can really be done.
The timing is just a bit too rich. It makes me feel like they avoided touching items and decided to pick on the skills because while the perma-tanking situation was untenable, it also wouldn't do to have PvErs complaining that their shiny new items were getting nerfed or whatever.
At least the timing of it is honest !!
Whether for or against the changes to EPtS we all know its a nerf that will only make the next Defensive passive all the more desirable. Considering that on top of that they had to find a way to "nerf defences" but without touching the items and passives that drive Cryptic's income we really shouldn't be surprised EPtS got nerfed, if anything we should be thankful that whichever dev this duty was foisted on decided to look at the other EPtX powers.
dont get your hopes up. if you use 2 differnt types of EPt, the 10 seconds remains. so much for encouraging their use, they just shot that in the foot
go use EPtE in an escort on tribble if you havent already everyone, its like beter then APO now. trades 24% damage buff for moveing 20 units faster, that speed buff is not effected by TB or EWP ether.
escorts haven't just been buffed, they have been squared. they are so unbelievably more powerful now its insane. and cruisers are unbelievably helpless
I was afraid of this...the change really nerfs my cruiser build into oblivion. It seems like cryptic is guiding, pushing, no shoving me back into an escort. Cruisers, which are already gimped, will be hurt by this change.
5You have at that point survived in a PvP engagement for north of 2 min.... in any other game besides STO that would be considered ridiculous. In every other MMO if you have failed to kill your opponent in 2 min you 100% deserve to get blowed up or bleed to death.
Yeah, man, here's the thing: This is Starship Naval Combat. We DON'T think that it should end in a sudden explosion in seconds.
The current system, unfortunately, sort of promotes sudden death vs. indefinite survival. There's no middle ground. Either you pop instantly or you're unharmed. There's no sense that ships are being shot apart on both sides. Either you trivially heal all damage inflicted or you blow up.
Yeah, man, here's the thing: This is Starship Naval Combat. We DON'T think that it should end in a sudden explosion in seconds.
The current system, unfortunately, sort of promotes sudden death vs. indefinite survival. There's no middle ground. Either you pop instantly or you're unharmed. There's no sense that ships are being shot apart on both sides. Either you trivially heal all damage inflicted or you blow up.
Yes and antonio also missed the point entirely when he commented on that that I am an engineer in a cruiser that is specced for tanking and healing (only viable role for eng/cruiser)
Yes I have survived upwards of 2 minutes in pvp, because I am a tank, not DPS. By his rationale, he should then be punished for not killing me inside of 2 minutes.
Yes and antonio also missed the point entirely when he commented on that that I am an engineer in a cruiser that is specced for tanking and healing (only viable role for eng/cruiser)
Yes I have survived upwards of 2 minutes in pvp, because I am a tank, not DPS. By his rationale, he should then be punished for not killing me inside of 2 minutes.
I would be punished with 20min+ matches... been there done that. lol
You have half your role right.
You are a healer yes... engis are healers... no matter what people would prefer they are healers.
Tanking sorry that doesn't exist and the sooner you realize that the better you will do.
Tanking = PvE
Last I checked there is NOTHING you can do that is going to force me to shoot at you at all.
You use your extra defense to heal your team mates thats a viable PvP design goal... however do not mistake that for tanking in anyway.
The main issue with many players... is that they DO NOT heal anyone else. They simply circle cycle EPTS and tac team and do nothing useful. They are a waste completely cause they don't hurt any one... and by not healing anyone either they are zero threat... and they end up in a ton of loosing matches.
Point is don't miss understand me... heal cruiser should be viable... and think about what would happen with a EPTS reduction... YOU as an engi would be the ideal healer again... Right now you are not. Sorry but a Sci Sci makes a better healer then you... + they have a ton of debuffs... they do more healing they live longer and they debuff. The changes that Cryptic is already backing out of would have helped you in your play style A TON.
I would be punished with 20min+ matches... been there done that. lol
You have half your role right.
You are a healer yes... engis are healers... no matter what people would prefer they are healers.
Tanking sorry that doesn't exist and the sooner you realize that the better you will do.
Tanking = PvE
Last I checked there is NOTHING you can do that is going to force me to shoot at you at all.
You use your extra defense to heal your team mates thats a viable PvP design goal... however do not mistake that for tanking in anyway.
The main issue with many players... is that they DO NOT heal anyone else. They simply circle cycle EPTS and tac team and do nothing useful. They are a waste completely cause they don't hurt any one... and by not healing anyone either they are zero threat... and they end up in a ton of loosing matches.
Point is don't miss understand me... heal cruiser should be viable... and think about what would happen with a EPTS reduction... YOU as an engi would be the ideal healer again... Right now you are not. Sorry but a Sci Sci makes a better healer then you... + they have a ton of debuffs... they do more healing they live longer and they debuff. The changes that Cryptic is already backing out of would have helped you in your play style A TON.
I don't know how it is possible for you to completely miss my point in so many different ways, and again, I am sorry you cannot see that tanking is viable.
It is NOT a matter of getting you to shoot at me. There is no way possible for that to occur, I will give you that. That is not my goal. That is not my role. Unless of course I have aggravated you enough to waste a SNB on me, then I have succeeded. My role is to stay alive so that I may heal other people. If you want to think that a sci is a better heal than me, fine. You are wrong, but fine. You do not know me or my play style, or in fact have never played in a match with me, so do not presume to know the ins and outs of my build or my play style.
That being said, yes most players in cruiser do not heal anyone else. I am not most players. Keeping my ability to tank, (or perhaps I should use a different term since you think the concept of tanking only exists in pve) is what allows me to stay alive so that I may heal others.
I find in the current system (holodeck) that I have plenty of opportunity to heal people, and that my role is well defined and well received. Giving a gap in shields to escorts means virtually nothing since any escort worth his salt is also speed tanking. The deterrent for you to NOT shoot at my ship is that doing so would be a waste of your time, which then frees me up to do my job. Just as much as it would be a waste of time for ME in a cruiser to try to kill anything.
Everything I use to absorb your damage is ONLY self abilities. Everything else is used for team mates.
Allowing there to be an easily exploitable hole in my defenses either then forces me to just accept death every 20 seconds, or cover that gap in defense with all of my abilities that I have reserved for the rest of the team. There was very little reason for anyone to use cruiser before, save for some very dedicated people. With the recent change and even the updated change, there is even less reason for people to fly a cruiser, ESPECIALLY fed side.
Now the most recent change makes things bad in a different way in the sense that I can ONLY chain one thing, which will always remain shields. I cannot have weapon power as well, which means the tiny bit of damage I managed to scrape out before is completely nullified. On top of that, since I will be chaining either EPtS2 or 3, my ensign slots are now completely worthless, which could either be 2 or 3.
Allowing there to be an easily exploitable hole in my defenses either then forces me to just accept death every 20 seconds, or cover that gap in defense with all of my abilities that I have reserved for the rest of the team. There was very little reason for anyone to use cruiser before, save for some very dedicated people. With the recent change and even the updated change, there is even less reason for people to fly a cruiser, ESPECIALLY fed side.
Now the most recent change makes things bad in a different way in the sense that I can ONLY chain one thing, which will always remain shields. I cannot have weapon power as well, which means the tiny bit of damage I managed to scrape out before is completely nullified. On top of that, since I will be chaining either EPtS2 or 3, my ensign slots are now completely worthless, which could either be 2 or 3.
Hooray, us cruiser pilots are "dedicated"!
I would have to agree. Further nerfing a cruiser's ability to defend itself (keeping itself alive long enough to throw more heals to the teammates) is just asking for all cruiser pilots to just give up. I for one don't want to do that.
I wouldn't worry about weapon power. We are cruisers - despite the fearsome size and looks of cruisers, we are not primarily built for damage. Sure yes, it would be nice to contribute some damage against a target (read: torpedoes or mines), but that's not our role.
As for chaining EPtS, I would just stick with the ensign slots where they are right now. You just have to expect a huge amount of damage to be taken in the "gap" in protection.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
The main issue with many players... is that they DO NOT heal anyone else. They simply circle cycle EPTS and tac team and do nothing useful. They are a waste completely cause they don't hurt any one... and by not healing anyone either they are zero threat... and they end up in a ton of loosing matches.
I'm not seeing the problem here: A guy turtles, making himself nearly invulnerable. You ignore him and murder the rest of his team in a 5 vs. 4, as this 5th guy is useless, and thus loses. What's the problem again? Are you somehow feeling bad that this guy was allowed to live after you 15-0'ed his team, that your victory is somehow diminished because he wasn't among the dead?
A lot of you must Pug with some awful cruiser pilots.
My last DPS Cruiser produced damage higher than most escorts. Numbers above 700k to 1mil. And no I don't waste heals on others who will be obliterated by a bug ship when as a tac/cruiser I need those heals for me. And every single engineering slot is being used and abused. Heck I could have used a couple more for EWP and RSP1.
There is no finer feeling than literally annihilating a bug ship in 8 seconds from an assault cruiser.
There is more to cruisers than the engineer class. Is it extremely difficult to manage? Yes. But when it all comes together its magic. Cruisers are more than tank healers.
It seems there's some pushback to this nerf simply due to people wanting to maintain the ascendancy of doff-laden, Min/Maxer PvP builds really. And no - I'm not trolling ffs.
Having 100% uptime with 2 slots and Doffs is just silly and I'm sure NOT *Working as Intended*
I am surprised because this is one of the few nerfs I actually agree with...
A lot of you must Pug with some awful cruiser pilots.
My last DPS Cruiser produced damage higher than most escorts. Numbers above 700k to 1mil. And no I don't waste heals on others who will be obliterated by a bug ship when as a tac/cruiser I need those heals for me. And every single engineering slot is being used and abused. Heck I could have used a couple more for EWP and RSP1.
There is no finer feeling than literally annihilating a bug ship in 8 seconds from an assault cruiser.
There is more to cruisers than the engineer class. Is it extremely difficult to manage? Yes. But when it all comes together its magic. Cruisers are than tank healers.
Yeah my DPS numbers are quite high as well. I actually out damage a lot of escorts. Unfortunately DPS means nothing. An engineer in a cruiser has really no choice but be a tank, as they cannot spike damage. I too have run across some people in escorts who I can kill without an issue. Those people are also not redistributing shields + TT1x2, and EPtSx2.
It seems there's some pushback to this nerf simply due to people wanting to maintain the ascendancy of doff-laden, Min/Maxer PvP builds really. And no - I'm not trolling ffs.
Having 100% uptime with 2 slots and Doffs is just silly and I'm sure NOT *Working as Intended*
I am surprised because this is one of the few nerfs I actually agree with...
IF the entire cruiser class of starship was not based on EptX skills I would agree.
Honestly there are two cruiser captains:
Engineers
Tacticals
The former are those nearly unkillable heal based immortals most people seem to love to hate.
The latter are tacticals like me, who NEED every single aspect of the current mechanic to be competitive. I've spent an obscene amount of time making competitive cruisers.
While I have great offense I have at best 2 heals. And when focused on by any halfway decent team that decides to work together I will most certainly blow up. Hopefully after killing 2 of the enemy first.
The problem as so many have mentioned is that cruisers are sitting ducks that can't absorb the levels of focus fire without an engineer. And can't do significant damage without a tactical in it. The entire ship class is frankly broken when compared to escorts or science ships.
Messing with a broken classes core ability mechanics will only make it more broken. And noi don't think you're trolling. I just think most people only see the engineer side of the cruiser coin.
@chaos1428 I was actually thinking of the JHAS cycling EptS TT and all those evil skills. My bad luck is I always end up fighting people that are just as min/max obsessed as I am. Massive spike damage is the key. With 3 BOs in six seconds. When it works, stuff dies. When it fails... It's like watching your perfect phaser lance shot miss from .1 km.
Second edit: The more I think about it the more I'm sort of bummed out about how cruisers keep getting raked over the coals. I've probably spent near a billion EC and a mil in dilithium to build what I considered the apex of Tac cruisers without exploits or whatever. Finally after literally years of tinkering and untold ZEN some developer gets a *wonderful* idea on how he's going to save cruisers. And in pure cryptic fashion screws the pooch without any idea on how their OWN game WORKS.
If our Navy built ships like this Dev team does it would cost me 5$ to fire special munitions. The AEGIS system would stop working between 10 and 20 percent of the time. And the ship would be unable to escape any sort of engagement and be obliterated by small attack boats that "speed tank" /rant
It seems there's some pushback to this nerf simply due to people wanting to maintain the ascendancy of doff-laden, Min/Maxer PvP builds really. And no - I'm not trolling ffs.
Having 100% uptime with 2 slots and Doffs is just silly and I'm sure NOT *Working as Intended*
I am surprised because this is one of the few nerfs I actually agree with...
I don't believe you are trolling, but I also don't believe that you have ever spent any length of time as an engineer in a cruiser in pvp.
While I disagree with you, I do find your sig absolutely hilarious.
2x EPtX: for every 80s of uptime, there is 5s of downtime
1x EPtX: for every 80s of uptime, there is 75s of downtime
EPtX/EPtY: for every 80s of uptime for each, there is between 30s-75s of downtime for each
Buff the other powers, fine but leave the CDs alone.
How about fix it cause its broken.
1) its a 100% uptme skill .... I don't think anyone should have to explain how that is broken.
2) its a 100% uptime on all the bonuses from a skill class that doesn't work that way
Its time for EPTS to to get B slapped out of the game... and have the game properly balanced.
If people are dying to quickly after a few months of this change... then its time to reexamine natural shield resists and or dmg numbers. (I say a few months cause frankly people have terrible builds now and it will take some time for them to believe the games better players and change there builds accordingly)
Right now we have a situation where new players get mud stomped in seconds... untill someone clues them in that they really have to have EPTS... and better yet 2 copies so its never down.
Same goes for tac team which needs the same treatment.
Your survival rate in this game can be summed up in 2 abilities... Tac Team EPTS.
Its sort of a joke... and terrible design.
Your nice little engi cruiser blows up more then my escort 100% for sure... you know why... cause we can both slot EPTS and Tac team... but I'm faster.
Will EPTS hurt your "tank" yes... will it hurt mine more... yes.
Its funny engis and cruiser players have been QQing for months... about how there class and ship have been destroyed... and when one of the best changes I could imagine for them roles around they don't see how it helps them more then anyone else.
Comments
The 5 second gap isn't a hard cooldown, it's a result of the 45 second cooldown which can be reduced. It's now 20 second shared/45 single power. So:
1. EPtSa (start 20 duration 20 shared same, 45 single a)
2. EPtSb (start 20 duration 20 shared same, 45 single b, 25 single a)
All that's needed is a 5 second reduction of EPtS single by the time EPtSb shared expires and you get
3. EPtSa (start 20 second shared same, 25 single b, 45 single a)
Then repeat.
Mix abilities are much more difficult to chain now as pointed out. The cooldown reduction would need to be 25 seconds. Dual aux2bat builds may be able to pull this off though depending on playstyle and timing.
EPtS (start 15 global, 20 share, 20 duration, single 45 seconds)
2xaux2batt
EPtX (new 15 global, 5 EPtS duration, 3=(.4*45-15) second EPtS cooldown or 15 depending if EPtX used, 5 second EPtS cooldown for same ability which is > the 3 second timer) basically if EPTx is used there's the 10 second gap viral mentioned. But, the choice can be there to chain a single copy if using dual aux2batt builds.
Again, instead of getting the repair bonus every 30 seconds, it's every 20 seconds. Tanking is boosted. This makes w/e gains from 20 second EPtW bonus damage pointless unless it's part of a spike/burst build hit&run build, making DoT pressure damage less helpful.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Great change if they had the stones to see it through...
and well they don't.
Ye really great for ships with 3 engineering ensigns :rolleyes:
New changes changed not a single thing anyone was complaining about.
dont get your hopes up. if you use 2 differnt types of EPt, the 10 seconds remains. so much for encouraging their use, they just shot that in the foot
go use EPtE in an escort on tribble if you havent already everyone, its like beter then APO now. trades 24% damage buff for moveing 20 units faster, that speed buff is not effected by TB or EWP ether.
escorts haven't just been buffed, they have been squared. they are so unbelievably more powerful now its insane. and cruisers are unbelievably helpless
Moving everything to 20s without lowering the system cooldown to 10s is a really bad idea. And all of this because they let the intern rebalance EPtX and he wasn't told to look at Snix' big cooldown table or learn a little bit about the different flavours of EPtX-based builds...
I thought it couldn't get much worse than "oops, you mean reducing damage by 10% means multiplying by .9 and not by .1?", but apparently Cryptic boldly goes where no developer has gone before.
Yup. Went from a massive reduction to sustain and an indirect buff to snoozers (mostly because it would punish escorts which lack as many options to close the tank gap and buffs/nerfs are all relative) to a massive nerf to anything running more than one EPtX power (wonder who those ships are, oh right cruisers) and a minor increase to sustain thanks to the heal of EPtS.
This shows just how out of touch they really are IMHO. For a moment I was hoping they were planning to re-evaluate the 'team' abilities now I just hope they leave them be.
50% up time with one copy is broken... thank the doff system for that.
You can argue that its not... but it is.
My omega 3 being up 50% of the time is just silly.
I think that's exactly what most people DON'T want to do. The way you talk it really seems to me that you probably don't belong in a game like STO, at least not for its PvP. WoW has a system a lot like what you describe and it also has a rigid role system, something you also seem to want (apologies if I confuse you with another poster, its hard to keep track in these mega threads)
Action, counter, counter to the counter, counter o the counter squared, etc. just doesn't seem to jive with the direction STO is going at all. Maybe it was like that once but no matter what re balancing they try to do now their expanding rep system and its passives will only ever continue to make a mess of PvP. Eventually we'll get to a point where you have so many passives the effect of boff powers may simply be the cherry at the top! Of course, they can't re-balance things too much or their rep system would collapse and lets not even talk of what happens if things just get overall tougher for the new player that doesn't have the passives. Its a mess alright, but it will be an even bigger mess for PvP, so i urge to reconsider your long term plans concerning STO. I just don't see it being a place to PvP at all.
There is a possibility they are trying to reign in resists (personally I still hold this was all a throwaway decision designed to simplify things for the new players they hope to bring in with their "xpac") but its a self destructive move since the mayor draw to their Rep System IS the defense passives, more than the gear itself. After all, you don't need new MK12 weapons but you will always want new passives. Passives they can't nerf or make insignificant by buffing everything else or they and more importantly their rep system looses all credibility.
Not trying to be a downer or anything, I just really hate to see people that love something stick around to see it go down in flames when nothing can really be done.
At least the timing of it is honest
Whether for or against the changes to EPtS we all know its a nerf that will only make the next Defensive passive all the more desirable. Considering that on top of that they had to find a way to "nerf defences" but without touching the items and passives that drive Cryptic's income we really shouldn't be surprised EPtS got nerfed, if anything we should be thankful that whichever dev this duty was foisted on decided to look at the other EPtX powers.
I was afraid of this...the change really nerfs my cruiser build into oblivion. It seems like cryptic is guiding, pushing, no shoving me back into an escort. Cruisers, which are already gimped, will be hurt by this change.
The current system, unfortunately, sort of promotes sudden death vs. indefinite survival. There's no middle ground. Either you pop instantly or you're unharmed. There's no sense that ships are being shot apart on both sides. Either you trivially heal all damage inflicted or you blow up.
Yes and antonio also missed the point entirely when he commented on that that I am an engineer in a cruiser that is specced for tanking and healing (only viable role for eng/cruiser)
Yes I have survived upwards of 2 minutes in pvp, because I am a tank, not DPS. By his rationale, he should then be punished for not killing me inside of 2 minutes.
I would be punished with 20min+ matches... been there done that. lol
You have half your role right.
You are a healer yes... engis are healers... no matter what people would prefer they are healers.
Tanking sorry that doesn't exist and the sooner you realize that the better you will do.
Tanking = PvE
Last I checked there is NOTHING you can do that is going to force me to shoot at you at all.
You use your extra defense to heal your team mates thats a viable PvP design goal... however do not mistake that for tanking in anyway.
The main issue with many players... is that they DO NOT heal anyone else. They simply circle cycle EPTS and tac team and do nothing useful. They are a waste completely cause they don't hurt any one... and by not healing anyone either they are zero threat... and they end up in a ton of loosing matches.
Point is don't miss understand me... heal cruiser should be viable... and think about what would happen with a EPTS reduction... YOU as an engi would be the ideal healer again... Right now you are not. Sorry but a Sci Sci makes a better healer then you... + they have a ton of debuffs... they do more healing they live longer and they debuff. The changes that Cryptic is already backing out of would have helped you in your play style A TON.
I don't know how it is possible for you to completely miss my point in so many different ways, and again, I am sorry you cannot see that tanking is viable.
It is NOT a matter of getting you to shoot at me. There is no way possible for that to occur, I will give you that. That is not my goal. That is not my role. Unless of course I have aggravated you enough to waste a SNB on me, then I have succeeded. My role is to stay alive so that I may heal other people. If you want to think that a sci is a better heal than me, fine. You are wrong, but fine. You do not know me or my play style, or in fact have never played in a match with me, so do not presume to know the ins and outs of my build or my play style.
That being said, yes most players in cruiser do not heal anyone else. I am not most players. Keeping my ability to tank, (or perhaps I should use a different term since you think the concept of tanking only exists in pve) is what allows me to stay alive so that I may heal others.
I find in the current system (holodeck) that I have plenty of opportunity to heal people, and that my role is well defined and well received. Giving a gap in shields to escorts means virtually nothing since any escort worth his salt is also speed tanking. The deterrent for you to NOT shoot at my ship is that doing so would be a waste of your time, which then frees me up to do my job. Just as much as it would be a waste of time for ME in a cruiser to try to kill anything.
Everything I use to absorb your damage is ONLY self abilities. Everything else is used for team mates.
Allowing there to be an easily exploitable hole in my defenses either then forces me to just accept death every 20 seconds, or cover that gap in defense with all of my abilities that I have reserved for the rest of the team. There was very little reason for anyone to use cruiser before, save for some very dedicated people. With the recent change and even the updated change, there is even less reason for people to fly a cruiser, ESPECIALLY fed side.
Now the most recent change makes things bad in a different way in the sense that I can ONLY chain one thing, which will always remain shields. I cannot have weapon power as well, which means the tiny bit of damage I managed to scrape out before is completely nullified. On top of that, since I will be chaining either EPtS2 or 3, my ensign slots are now completely worthless, which could either be 2 or 3.
< 20mins is not enough.
Some of the most fun matches (nail biters, really) I've been in have been at least 50 minutes long.
It's a dance of trying to get the other guys to blow cooldowns.
Hooray, us cruiser pilots are "dedicated"!
I would have to agree. Further nerfing a cruiser's ability to defend itself (keeping itself alive long enough to throw more heals to the teammates) is just asking for all cruiser pilots to just give up. I for one don't want to do that.
I wouldn't worry about weapon power. We are cruisers - despite the fearsome size and looks of cruisers, we are not primarily built for damage. Sure yes, it would be nice to contribute some damage against a target (read: torpedoes or mines), but that's not our role.
As for chaining EPtS, I would just stick with the ensign slots where they are right now. You just have to expect a huge amount of damage to be taken in the "gap" in protection.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
My last DPS Cruiser produced damage higher than most escorts. Numbers above 700k to 1mil. And no I don't waste heals on others who will be obliterated by a bug ship when as a tac/cruiser I need those heals for me. And every single engineering slot is being used and abused. Heck I could have used a couple more for EWP and RSP1.
There is no finer feeling than literally annihilating a bug ship in 8 seconds from an assault cruiser.
There is more to cruisers than the engineer class. Is it extremely difficult to manage? Yes. But when it all comes together its magic. Cruisers are more than tank healers.
Having 100% uptime with 2 slots and Doffs is just silly and I'm sure NOT *Working as Intended*
I am surprised because this is one of the few nerfs I actually agree with...
Yeah my DPS numbers are quite high as well. I actually out damage a lot of escorts. Unfortunately DPS means nothing. An engineer in a cruiser has really no choice but be a tank, as they cannot spike damage. I too have run across some people in escorts who I can kill without an issue. Those people are also not redistributing shields + TT1x2, and EPtSx2.
IF the entire cruiser class of starship was not based on EptX skills I would agree.
Honestly there are two cruiser captains:
Engineers
Tacticals
The former are those nearly unkillable heal based immortals most people seem to love to hate.
The latter are tacticals like me, who NEED every single aspect of the current mechanic to be competitive. I've spent an obscene amount of time making competitive cruisers.
While I have great offense I have at best 2 heals. And when focused on by any halfway decent team that decides to work together I will most certainly blow up. Hopefully after killing 2 of the enemy first.
The problem as so many have mentioned is that cruisers are sitting ducks that can't absorb the levels of focus fire without an engineer. And can't do significant damage without a tactical in it. The entire ship class is frankly broken when compared to escorts or science ships.
Messing with a broken classes core ability mechanics will only make it more broken. And noi don't think you're trolling. I just think most people only see the engineer side of the cruiser coin.
@chaos1428 I was actually thinking of the JHAS cycling EptS TT and all those evil skills. My bad luck is I always end up fighting people that are just as min/max obsessed as I am. Massive spike damage is the key. With 3 BOs in six seconds. When it works, stuff dies. When it fails... It's like watching your perfect phaser lance shot miss from .1 km.
Second edit: The more I think about it the more I'm sort of bummed out about how cruisers keep getting raked over the coals. I've probably spent near a billion EC and a mil in dilithium to build what I considered the apex of Tac cruisers without exploits or whatever. Finally after literally years of tinkering and untold ZEN some developer gets a *wonderful* idea on how he's going to save cruisers. And in pure cryptic fashion screws the pooch without any idea on how their OWN game WORKS.
If our Navy built ships like this Dev team does it would cost me 5$ to fire special munitions. The AEGIS system would stop working between 10 and 20 percent of the time. And the ship would be unable to escape any sort of engagement and be obliterated by small attack boats that "speed tank" /rant
I don't believe you are trolling, but I also don't believe that you have ever spent any length of time as an engineer in a cruiser in pvp.
While I disagree with you, I do find your sig absolutely hilarious.
hahah thanky!
@ocp001
Interesting points. is there a way to tie the EPtX to the type of hull? Perhaps this is where the 'Warp Core" dynamic will come into play?
2x EPtX: for every 80s of uptime, there is 5s of downtime
1x EPtX: for every 80s of uptime, there is 75s of downtime
EPtX/EPtY: for every 80s of uptime for each, there is between 30s-75s of downtime for each
How is that a great fix?
How about not try to "fix" it in the first place?
Buff the other powers, fine but leave the CDs alone.
How about fix it cause its broken.
1) its a 100% uptme skill .... I don't think anyone should have to explain how that is broken.
2) its a 100% uptime on all the bonuses from a skill class that doesn't work that way
Its time for EPTS to to get B slapped out of the game... and have the game properly balanced.
If people are dying to quickly after a few months of this change... then its time to reexamine natural shield resists and or dmg numbers. (I say a few months cause frankly people have terrible builds now and it will take some time for them to believe the games better players and change there builds accordingly)
Right now we have a situation where new players get mud stomped in seconds... untill someone clues them in that they really have to have EPTS... and better yet 2 copies so its never down.
Same goes for tac team which needs the same treatment.
Your survival rate in this game can be summed up in 2 abilities... Tac Team EPTS.
Its sort of a joke... and terrible design.
Your nice little engi cruiser blows up more then my escort 100% for sure... you know why... cause we can both slot EPTS and Tac team... but I'm faster.
Will EPTS hurt your "tank" yes... will it hurt mine more... yes.
Its funny engis and cruiser players have been QQing for months... about how there class and ship have been destroyed... and when one of the best changes I could imagine for them roles around they don't see how it helps them more then anyone else.