Last time i queued for arena i met a premade team with my pug. They had two scis in science ship fortunately and yet they needed 3 minutes to figure out how they could take my pvp cruiser down. My pug team was doing nothing but sitting there with very low damage and no heals. They were fortunate enough to have two scis. But if you don't have that, well, good luck killing my eng. And I know i'm definitely not the best cruiser pilot. Is that really your definition of "fun"?
There are many possibilities. I guess we're going to see more cruisers with APD, some here will discover that aux to sif is a wonderful tanking ability, we may even see some specific cruisers like the ambassador with TBRs or scramble...
I don't know what you do and how you build your ships but it's not because it's not in your holy guide that it sucks. I mean, come on, get your head out of your holy bible and see that there is a dozen of tanking abilities or even control abilities out there. Any will do if you want to survive, just find a good synergy. A 10s gap is nothing if you have a variety of abilities with a low CD buying you more time until your major regen power pops.
You don't need to mitigate every bit of damage, all you need is staying alive long enough for your team mate to resp, but then you're a poor healer and you deserve to blow up (or your team has no TT and then you should beg for a short match), or enough time so that your team deals with the guy bugging you, if he's stupid enough to try to blow up a cruiser.
There is no variety of abilities with a low cooldown to offset this damage, and that is the point.
And no, just being an uber tank is not really my idea of fun either. However, given that the eng in a cruiser is only going to be able to do that with any kind of effectiveness, then we damn well better be able to.
After hours of testing in group PvP with my fleet, it is no longer stupid to try and blow up a cruiser. Hell, ONE escort timing his damage has very little issue. If he cannot take me out in one 10 second gap, then he will on the next one. If 2 escorts focus on me? Pfft, goodbye.
Yeah, I can keep an escort alive with my healing, but that's because I can give him a full 30 second EPtS with ES. Yay!
So perhaps engineers are useful afterall. You want them around and not blow up JUST long enough to throw your oh so precious escorts ES. Hell, bring 2 engies so when one blows up during that 10 second window, the OTHER one can throw you ES! Wheee! STO is fun for escorts again!
If a cruiser cant withstand an alpha strike from 1 or maybe 2 bops than there is something else wrong that has nothing todo with EPtX. 3+ bops should have a guaranteed kill with a coordinated alpha.
I like this change and I cant wait to test it with EPtW 3 + BFW3 I like that all the emergency systems abilities are closer to the same duration. I am mostly curios about how the global cooldowns will work.
The point is that you don't need 3 bops to get a guaranteed kill anymore. One will suffice. You don't even need SNB anymore, as a patience lasting about 20 seconds will give you the same benefit.
There is no variety of abilities with a low cooldown to offset this damage, and that is the point.
And no, just being an uber tank is not really my idea of fun either. However, given that the eng in a cruiser is only going to be able to do that with any kind of effectiveness, then we damn well better be able to.
After hours of testing in group PvP with my fleet, it is no longer stupid to try and blow up a cruiser. Hell, ONE escort timing his damage has very little issue. If he cannot take me out in one 10 second gap, then he will on the next one. If 2 escorts focus on me? Pfft, goodbye.
Yeah, I can keep an escort alive with my healing, but that's because I can give him a full 30 second EPtS with ES. Yay!
So perhaps engineers are useful afterall. You want them around and not blow up JUST long enough to throw your oh so precious escorts ES. Hell, bring 2 engies so when one blows up during that 10 second window, the OTHER one can throw you ES! Wheee! STO is fun for escorts again!
Or two cruisers healing eachother. Yes it's OP i know but i'm sure it could work.
I don't know what your build is and i don't know how you play your cruiser (both entries can be the issue) but if you have a fast turning ship like a galor or an excelsior then an EPTE could also save your precious TRIBBLE.
Escaping for 10s if you have no support is also a valid option, but I guess your team is already doomed if you have no support...
Drunk, at this point - I think you're looking for whatever comes after ad nauseum, eh?
Some of the replies in the various threads that blatantly ignore most of what has been said...c'mon...face it...have to figure at this point that they are simply trolling.
It's not trolling, it's just a different perspective.
You won't convince me with "I want to solo tank everything" arguments. If you prove me that a full team of 5 people who work as a team is loosing something when the cruiser has some mitigation downtime then you have a point. Until then, nope, changes are good. It may even be great for teams since people will be trying to fire on cruisers more often. You see what speculation can do with random assumptions and just a different POV.
And by proofs i mean serious stuff, not stupid assumptions that cruisers would be the primary target all the time, that the sci can't confuse, hold, snb, that your tacs/escorts won't harass other escorts, and so on.
i have explained this ad nauseum. EPtS becomes little more then a countdonwn to your death, if you cant speed tank. you have 20 seconds to get all your cooldowns back so you can launch an alpha on someone when they have 20% res, instead of 50% res. or 65% res. CRF lasts 10 seconds, and so does a period of time were your targets shields will take twice, to 3 times as much damage as they did in the preceding 20 seconds.
the enemy is easier to kill, as you are, i dont see a problem there, it will be a question of skill timing and strategy, i dont see a problem there too
my science vessel will be more fragile on those 10 or 25 seconds, just like your ship will be too, its not like it will make someone stronger and someone weaker, plus, you have the epte and eptw option,
this is ofcourse my opinion, i can see the point you're trying to make, but i personally like it beeing 20 seconds all eptx, anyway, since you can't rotate them now, i see no point on having a cruiser, really ... this is the last drop for them devs need to make more skills definitely
It's not trolling, it's just a different perspective.
You won't convince me with "I want to solo tank everything" arguments. If you prove me that a full team of 5 people who work as a team is loosing something when the cruiser has some mitigation downtime then you have a point. Until then, nope, changes are good. It may even be great for teams since people will be trying to fire on cruisers more often. You see what speculation can do with random assumptions and just a different POV.
And by proofs i mean serious stuff, not stupid assumptions that cruisers would be the primary target all the time, that the sci can't confuse, hold, snb, that your tacs/escorts won't harass other escorts, and so on.
Have you read any of my posts about how the change will increase the number of people running 2x EPtS and how that 10s gap would be easy to cover regardless of Escort, Cruiser, Science Vessel?
So it will in turn result in more people running an ability that people are up in arms about? It will reduce the number of people that are using the other EPtX abilities?
Etc, etc, etc...and thus...that's why it is a bad change.
Unless the goal of the change is to increase the number of people using 2x EPtS (reducing the number of those that run a single EPtS or run EPtS/EPtX)...then it's not accomplishing anything.
This is what I mean by trolling...because if you had read anything I had said...you wouldn't have replied to me with what you did.
i dont think so virus, i will run 1 epts and 1 epta, since you can't rotate epts anymore, i see no point of using 2 copies, since you will have -20 seconds uptime now that you had before the change, 20 seconds is the duration of the skill ... bops will run eptw for the spike which i find it very cool for them and cruisers, my problem here is the engineering ensing slots ... the change is cool for me
Or two cruisers healing eachother. Yes it's OP i know but i'm sure it could work.
I don't know what your build is and i don't know how you play your cruiser (both entries can be the issue) but if you have a fast turning ship like a galor or an excelsior then an EPTE could also save your precious TRIBBLE.
Escaping for 10s if you have no support is also a valid option, but I guess your team is already doomed if you have no support...
Its not OP, its just absurd. The point of the cruiser is to keep the important damage dealers alive. Keeping each other alive so that you can....keep each other alive is just stupid.
My build is fine, and my play style is fine. Neither entry is the issue. EPtE takes away my ability to heal people. Too many EPtX skills is selfish. If EVERYTHING i have is required to keep myself alive then, again it just becomes stupid.
You said offer proof that it will hurt the team, but yet you say but noting like speculating that cruisers will become prime target? In my tests, we have been. Just because YOU don't like the playstyle of shield tanking with an eng cruiser and are happy that YOU will be able to kill them now solo, doesn't mean it's a good change.
I hate escorts. I have no respect for their builds. However at least before this change, it took some serious skill and coordination to kill a fully tanked healer cruiser. Now, any random free escort with little skill that can slot 4 DHCs can eventually get through a cruisers shields by facerolling on his keyboard. How is this good for the game unless you fly an escort? Even better if you have a KDF with battle cloak.
the enemy is easier to kill, as you are, i dont see a problem there, it will be a question of skill timing and strategy, i dont see a problem there too
It's not a FPS. It's not a mindless space shoot 'em up game. These aren't fighters. They're ships with crews ranging from 50 to the thousands. Battles should be drawn out affairs. They shouldn't be endless affairs, no - they shouldn't be that by any means - but they should be drawn out epic battles.
If EPtS is the problem - if EPtS is the reason that people do not die...then think about what they've done with the change. It's still there for 20s. Then it's gone for 10s. That 10s can be covered. So what's changed? What has it fixed?
Wouldn't the smarter thing to do - if EPtS is the problem - be to adjust the power itself? Not just shorten the duration of the power - not make it some sort of Yo-Yo mechanic. Shouldn't they actually have looked at the double resist it gives? Both the resist from the ability and the resist from the additional power?
The 100% uptime has to go. That part is nifty. The penalty for folks not running 2x EPtS needs to be addressed since it just encourages people to run 2x EPtS. But still, they've put in a 10s gap...so what? Folks running a single EPtS or running EPtS/EPtX (either without DCE DOFFs or not having them proc) have been dealing with a 15s gap. If they can handle a 15s gap, then there should be no issue handling the 10s gap. Course, those 15s folks are looking at a 25s gap. So they'll likely move to the 10s gap of running 2x EPtS. They'll definitely be able to handle that 10s gap - cause again, they've been rolling with a 15s gap.
They need not only to reduce the duration - but they also need to reduce the effect of it during the remaining duration. They also need not to penalize people for not running 2x EPtS should they decide to run 1x EPtS or EPtS/EPtX. And they need to be prepared to make multiple adjustments to the abilities depending on feedback...
...because again, it's not some mindless space FPS. It shouldn't be headshot boom.
The game is just so...just so Yo-Yo. They need to find some middleground - and - imho, this change is not doing that.
Buffed target = unkillable. Debuffed target = dead before the whole alpha hits them.
That's kind of what we're faced with, no? Not always, mind you - but that's the gist, eh? It's a SNB world... and unfortunately, that's all this change is - it's just a mini-SNB.
20s buffed, 10s debuffed. Yo-Yo. No middleground. Meh, it's so infuriating.
There have been so many suggestions on how to address the silliness of 100% uptime on Emergency Powers...where they came up with this choice...is just mind-boggling on one hand, but it's sheer Cryptic on the other - look at the rest of the Yo-Yo mechanics in the game. Bah...
Have you read any of my posts about how the change will increase the number of people running 2x EPtS and how that 10s gap would be easy to cover regardless of Escort, Cruiser, Science Vessel?
So it will in turn result in more people running an ability that people are up in arms about? It will reduce the number of people that are using the other EPtX abilities?
Etc, etc, etc...and thus...that's why it is a bad change.
Unless the goal of the change is to increase the number of people using 2x EPtS (reducing the number of those that run a single EPtS or run EPtS/EPtX)...then it's not accomplishing anything.
This is what I mean by trolling...because if you had read anything I had said...you wouldn't have replied to me with what you did.
TBH i don't think it will. You want to play safe. I don't mind some gambling, considering i currently run my pvp cruiser with 1 EPTS 3 and 1 EPTW 1 (i may change this for EPTE when the update goes live). My 3 purple damage control engineers will proc, most of the times. If it doesn't proc with EPTS it's going to proc with EPTW anyway It's extremely rare when they don't, and when they don't I have a large bag of tricks to cover an extensive downtime.
Honnestly I mostly fear for my temporal destroyers with this change, EPTS is a lot more critical with such ships, but I guess complaining about it would create a lot of anger here. And I don't mind blowing up sometimes, even with my destroyers. That's a part of the game.
It's not a FPS. It's not a mindless space shoot 'em up game. These aren't fighters. They're ships with crews ranging from 50 to the thousands. Battles should be drawn out affairs. They shouldn't be endless affairs, no - they shouldn't be that by any means - but they should be drawn out epic battles.
If EPtS is the problem - if EPtS is the reason that people do not die...then think about what they've done with the change. It's still there for 20s. Then it's gone for 10s. That 10s can be covered. So what's changed? What has it fixed?
Wouldn't the smarter thing to do - if EPtS is the problem - be to adjust the power itself? Not just shorten the duration of the power - not make it some sort of Yo-Yo mechanic. Shouldn't they actually have looked at the double resist it gives? Both the resist from the ability and the resist from the additional power?
The 100% uptime has to go. That part is nifty. The penalty for folks not running 2x EPtS needs to be addressed since it just encourages people to run 2x EPtS. But still, they've put in a 10s gap...so what? Folks running a single EPtS or running EPtS/EPtX (either without DCE DOFFs or not having them proc) have been dealing with a 15s gap. If they can handle a 15s gap, then there should be no issue handling the 10s gap. Course, those 15s folks are looking at a 25s gap. So they'll likely move to the 10s gap of running 2x EPtS. They'll definitely be able to handle that 10s gap - cause again, they've been rolling with a 15s gap.
They need not only to reduce the duration - but they also need to reduce the effect of it during the remaining duration. They also need not to penalize people for not running 2x EPtS should they decide to run 1x EPtS or EPtS/EPtX. And they need to be prepared to make multiple adjustments to the abilities depending on feedback...
...because again, it's not some mindless space FPS. It shouldn't be headshot boom.
The game is just so...just so Yo-Yo. They need to find some middleground - and - imho, this change is not doing that.
Buffed target = unkillable. Debuffed target = dead before the whole alpha hits them.
That's kind of what we're faced with, no? Not always, mind you - but that's the gist, eh? It's a SNB world... and unfortunately, that's all this change is - it's just a mini-SNB.
20s buffed, 10s debuffed. Yo-Yo. No middleground. Meh, it's so infuriating.
There have been so many suggestions on how to address the silliness of 100% uptime on Emergency Powers...where they came up with this choice...is just mind-boggling on one hand, but it's sheer Cryptic on the other - look at the rest of the Yo-Yo mechanics in the game. Bah...
I find myself agreeing with you. I could find a way to deal with it honestly if the resist wasn't so bloody high and then completely gone.
Buffed target = unkillable. Debuffed target = dead before the whole alpha hits them.
That's kind of what we're faced with, no? Not always, mind you - but that's the gist, eh? It's a SNB world... and unfortunately, that's all this change is - it's just a mini-SNB.
20s buffed, 10s debuffed. Yo-Yo. No middleground. Meh, it's so infuriating.
i agree with you on that, but all skills beeing 20 seconds is fair, and 1 step forward to achieve balance, but dont blame this change to get your opinion, everything in the game works that way, if there was a middleground, the game wouldn't be as fun as it is, its all about your build and how you use it, if it did have a middleground, there were no point on making a different build and try it, test new things, its that little yoyo thing you talk about, you just try to achieve the highest hights you can with your yo-yo, but that's nothing to do with the change on eptx
1 aspect... the game is getting a little hard for new pvpers to understand ...
Right now every ship I fly (aside from a Neg'Var hull tanker for the lols) I have either one or two copies of EPtS.
With this change I will likely take it away from half of them in favor of the other EPtX abilities. So while you may feel uncomfortable with a reduction in your ability to sustain damage I am excited about the option to focus a boff slot on something other than sustain.
Really though most of the 'its a bad idea' arguments here remind me of the vitriol unleashed when fleet shields got nerfed.
Sustain is too high. Obvious solution is to nerf the single ability that is doubling everyone's sustain. I'm sorry you don't feel that is a good idea but it is.
Right now every ship I fly (aside from a Neg'Var hull tanker for the lols) I have either one or two copies of EPtS.
With this change I will likely take it away from half of them in favor of the other EPtX abilities. So while you may feel uncomfortable with a reduction in your ability to sustain damage I am excited about the option to focus a boff slot on something other than sustain.
Really though most of the 'its a bad idea' arguments here remind me of the vitriol unleashed when fleet shields got nerfed.
Sustain is too high. Obvious solution is to nerf the single ability that is doubling everyone's sustain. I'm sorry you don't feel that is a good idea but it is.
I suppose I could always focus on doing damage with an eng in a fed cruiser. Oh wait...
Or Speed tanking! Oh, right...
I'm sorry you don't feel that it is a bad idea but it is.
i dont think so virus, i will run 1 epts and 1 epta, since you can't rotate epts anymore, i see no point of using 2 copies, since you will have -20 seconds uptime now that you had before the change, 20 seconds is the duration of the skill ... bops will run eptw for the spike which i find it very cool for them and cruisers, my problem here is the engineering ensing slots ... the change is cool for me
They can rotate two copies of EPtS. They will have a 10s gap instead of the 100% uptime they had, but they can still rotate them. Paying attention to what buffs they've got up (which they should be doing anyway), they'll be in position to cover that 10s gap.
Running EPtS and EPtA... as a rotation or as needed?
Because currently, lots of folks will run EPtS/EPtX with 3x DCE DOFFs - and - have a pretty good chance at having ~99% uptime on both of them. They might miss a proc here and there and eat a 15s gap, but again - they're watching their buffs and they'll cover it.
If you were running them as a rotation and you were running DCE DOFFs - well, you're looking at either a 10s gap or a 25s gap.
The 45s CD on an individual ability has not changed. The duration has dropped to 20s.
45s CD w/ 30s duration - CD runs at the same time. 15s gap.
DCE proc - 30s CD w/ 30s duration - CD runs at same time. 0s gap.
45s CD w/ 20s duration - CD runs at the same time. 25s gap.
DCE proc - 30s CD w/ 20s duration - CD runs at same time. 10s gap.
Don't forget the 15s triggered CD on the different EPtX abilities (30s for the same).
So perhaps you're just going to use them as needed and you're prepared to deal with that 15s triggered CD - you're used to it anyway. Are you prepared for the 25s gap? You use EPtS...after the 20s duration, it will be 25s before you can use it again. You use EPtA...after the 20s duration, it will be 25s before you can use it again.
Unless you gamble with the DCE DOFFs for the 10s duration by doing a rotation with them.
3 of my 8 guys run 2x EPtS. My tank and my two healers. The healers run it not just for their own resistance/regeneration - but because Shield Power also effects ExS. Yes, this also means there is potentially going to be a 10-25s gap in the effectiveness of ExS.
The other 5 guys? 2 run EPtS/EPtW with DCE DOFFs, 1 juggles EPtS/EPtA as needed with the current 15s gap, 1 runs EPtS as needed with the current 15s gap, and one doesn't use any EPtS abilities.
Covering a 15s is one thing. Covering a 25s gap is another. Even the guy that doesn't run EPtS isn't covering a 25s gap...he's got a Battle Cloak.
So 4 of my 8 guys are being penalized for not running 2x EPtS. That's twisted. One could say that's simply the opportunity cost involved for not choosing to run 2x EPtS. Thing is, shouldn't the opportunity cost for not running 2x EPtS...be not running 2x EPtS? Why is there an additional penalty on top of that? That's twisted.
that is an universal issue the change will bring, everyone will adapt easely, again, i dont see the problem,
escorts were getting too much profit on getting 1 slot with 1 skill and 15 seconds offtime
other people that really had to use 2 copies had to deal with those 15 wasted seconds of gcd
so there was a bigger benefit for using 1 eptx than rotating them on ships with less eng slots, leaving the lt for the rsp, i see more an issue on people trying to slot skills on eng ships now lol
but of course this is a forum where civilized people discuss about their interests and ideals
this is just my opinion against yours
TBH i don't think it will. You want to play safe. I don't mind some gambling, considering i currently run my pvp cruiser with 1 EPTS 3 and 1 EPTW 1 (i may change this for EPTE when the update goes live). My 3 purple damage control engineers will proc, most of the times. If it doesn't proc with EPTS it's going to proc with EPTW anyway It's extremely rare when they don't, and when they don't I have a large bag of tricks to cover an extensive downtime.
Honnestly I mostly fear for my temporal destroyers with this change, EPTS is a lot more critical with such ships, but I guess complaining about it would create a lot of anger here. And I don't mind blowing up sometimes, even with my destroyers. That's a part of the game.
Here's the question for you though...if you did not already have the 3 purple DCE DOFFs - would you buy them for the chance at a 10s gap with the possibility of it still being a 25s gap? I've got too many toons all clamoring for my EC, lol, and I'm also doing two one-man fleets - so my guys are just running blue DCEs. I can't justify the cost of them if this change goes through.
I don't have a problem dying...lol...on some of my guys, ahem, I'm damn good at dying - lol.
My complaint is with the Yo-Yo nature of the change. Heck, my suggested changes for the EPtX abilities would actually be a bigger nerf to them than this change. But it would be a more balanced nerf. It wouldn't be the on/off thing that Cryptic is so fond of...meh.
It's like my compaints about SNB and cleanses. They're both full. Full strip. Full cleanse. Yo-Yo mechanics. I'd rather see SNB remove some buffs and cleanses remove some debuffs. People would be flying around with a more balanced mix of buffs and debuffs...rather than it being an on/off switch sort of thing.
A 10s gap on 2x EPtS is nothing, imho. 20s out of every minute it's not there...two separate 10s periods that can be covered. 40s out of every minute it's just as powerful as it ever was. That's not addressing the issue. It's just doing a mini on/off switch on it, which even though it's not really much of an off switch... is obviously still Yo-Yo enough to tap into that monstrous pet peeve I have with such mechanics.
Heck, why not change it so that a ship has a certain number of Emergency Charges that regenerate over an extended period of time. Each time you use a charge, the next time you use the ability it will be weaker. 5 charges - full power, 4 charges - 80% power, 3 charges - 60% power, 2 charges - 40% power, 1 charge - 20% power, 0 charge - you have to wait before you can use it again. It's not a quick back and forth...it's not 20s up and 10s down...it's not a Yo-Yo.
It's the nature of the change and that I do not believe it addresses the issue...where I have a problem with the change.
i agree with you on that, but all skills beeing 20 seconds is fair, and 1 step forward to achieve balance, but dont blame this change to get your opinion, everything in the game works that way, if there was a middleground, the game wouldn't be as fun as it is, its all about your build and how you use it, if it did have a middleground, there were no point on making a different build and try it, test new things, its that little yoyo thing you talk about, you just try to achieve the highest hights you can with your yo-yo, but that's nothing to do with the change on eptx
1 aspect... the game is getting a little hard for new pvpers to understand ...
I find that I get a greater sense of accomplishment when I am able to push the limits of a middleground than I do simply twiddling my thumbs while waiting for an inevitable gap that I know will appear.
With the former, I'm testing my skills. With the latter, I'm twiddling my thumbs.
The point is that you don't need 3 bops to get a guaranteed kill anymore. One will suffice. You don't even need SNB anymore, as a patience lasting about 20 seconds will give you the same benefit.
My point is that if we must rely on an emergency power for basic survival than something else is wrong. An emergency power should not be available all the time or else it is not an emergency power, its just power.
that is an universal issue the change will bring, everyone will adapt easely, again, i dont see the problem,
escorts were getting too much profit on getting 1 slot with 1 skill and 15 seconds offtime
other people that really had to use 2 copies had to deal with those 15 wasted seconds of gcd
so there was a bigger benefit for using 1 eptx than rotating them on ships with less eng slots, leaving the lt for the rsp, i see more an issue on people trying to slot skills on eng ships now lol
but of course this is a forum where civilized people discuss about their interests and ideals
this is just my opinion against yours
Hrmmm, if I had a single Lt Eng BOFF - I'm probably looking at EPtS1/AtS1. I usually won't slot a RSP unless I have two Lt Eng BOFFs. Even with that, it's usually because of there being limited choices for Eng BOFF abilities in general.
I've moved a few guys around in ships (and will probably move a couple more) - funny, they're all ending up in Escorts (/cough)...so some of the ships they were in when we all started discussing these changes are no longer the ships they are in...hrmmm.
Man oh man, look at all that EPtS, eh? Look at all that TT, eh? Er, look at all that APO, eh? Um, all that HE and TSS?
Let me do a quick count of survival/healing for each of them:
1) 8 of 12
2) 10 of 12
3) 8 of 12
4) 12 of 12
5) 9 of 12
6) 6 of 11
7) 7 of 12
8) 12 of 12
Hrmmm, and that's not counting innate abilities. There's 4 Eng, 2 Sci, and 2 Tac.
Perhaps that's one of the reasons I'm kind of dismissive of the 10s gap for 2x EPtS (only three guys) and more concerned about the 25s gaps (four guys). The one guy with a single Lt Eng BOFF...well, the ship I'm planning on putting her in will trade an En Sci for an En Eng...heh.
But look at those common abilities, eh?
TT1 - 7 of 8
APO - 5 of 8
APD - 3 of 8
EPtS - 7 of 8
AtS - 7 of 8
RSP/ET/ExS - 2 of 8
HE - 8 of 8
TSS - 8 of 8
ST - 5 of 8
PH - 2 of 8
JS/SS - 2 of 8
Curious that I'm one of the proponents of moving HE/TSS to Eng from Sci, eh? Also somebody that believes ST shouldn't provide a Shield Heal. Course, I think AB should be Sci and not Eng...but anyway...curious, eh?
There's all this talk about what a problem EPtS is...so little about Sci heals. Look at your own Sci BOFFs - how many are Sci abilities and how many are heals?
It's not like with Eng where there really just aren't any choices. En Eng gives you EPtS1, EPtA1, EPtE1, EPtW1, and ET1. ET triggers with TT/ST. The various EPtX abilities trigger with themselves and each other. There aren't that many more choices at Lt (and of course, you're facing any triggers from your En Eng choices).
But that's just abilities. How about bonus defense, eh? Not counting temporary buffs.
2 @ ~60%
1 @ 70%
4 @ 80%
1 @ 85%
I've been lazy with passives, but hey - don't forget all of those. Speaking of those, can't forget the various procs from gear as well!
/sigh
So there's all that...then on the other side - SNB/Tractor/VM.
It's a Yo-Yo.
In the grand scheme of things, a lil' Yo-Yo change to EPtS isn't going to mean sh...TRIBBLE.
My point is that if we must rely on an emergency power for basic survival than something else is wrong. An emergency power should not be available all the time or else it is not an emergency power, its just power.
It's a name.
Extend Shields doesn't actually extend shields either. Transfer Shield Strength doesn't actually transfer shield strength. Aux to Structural Integrity doesn't actually transfer Aux. Etc, etc, etc...meh.
Course, personally I'd prefer that if they were going to name something...something, er, that it actually do what the name suggests. That includes Emergency Power to Whatever actually being an Emergency thing.
Virusdancer, here is obviously not much to slot in enginering ensign station, so it's natural people have best value skill there -> Epts. People used ET, before TT became mandatory skill.
tactical: beams,torpedoes,teams
engineering: ep powers, teams
science: hazzard, polarize hull, transfer shield, tractor beam, jam sensors, teams
I still think that auto shield distro ability, should be an engineering ensign level skill instead it being part of tactical team. But then we would end back with escorts moaning that TT is useless (like it was before).
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Virusdancer, here is obviously not much to slot in enginering ensign station, so it's natural people have best value skill there -> Epts. People used ET, before TT became mandatory skill.
tactical: beams,torpedoes,teams
engineering: ep powers, teams
science: hazzard, polarize hull, transfer shield, tractor beam, jam sensors, teams
I still think that auto shield distro ability, should be an engineering ensign level skill instead it being part of tactical team. But then we would end back with escorts moaning that TT is useless (like it was before).
It never helped that EPtS had a 30s secondary while EPtA/EPtE/EPtW only had a 5s secondary. Long before we reached this point, it would have been interesting to see what gameplay testing would have shown for increased duration on the other EPtX secondaries...
...it wouldn't address the 100% uptime issue by any means - but there are several things it appears they're trying to address at once - rather than piecemeal, so to speak.
Imagine if you had a recipe for...er...a cookie. You bake the cookie. It's not quite right. Something is off. Do you change one thing and try again or do you change a bunch of things and hope for the best (possibly not even changing the thing that made the cookie not quite right in the process)...?
That's how it kind of feels Cryptic is addressing the EPtX issue.
Ensign Engineering BOFF ability selection...
5 abilities.
4 EPtX abilities.
1 of the EPtX abilities has a 30s secondary.
3 of the EPtX abilities have a 5s secondary.
1 Team ability - will conflict with what is considered the main Team ability - an ability oft recommended to have two copies.
What's the likely ability that somebody is going to select?
Yep, definitely not rocket science there. Still, doesn't address the 100% uptime on something called an Emergency ability... but c'mon, what did they think people were going to take? And then as some have suggested, is it a case that other things ended up being balanced around so many people taking it?
Bah, I don't know - I'm posting too much about this. I need to go fly around in circles with autofire on and kill the Crystalline Entity on a few more guys...
Still, doesn't address the 100% uptime on something called an Emergency ability
Arguably, it is not the ability that is 'emergency', but the power...i.e. you are diverting 100% of your emergency power to shields all the time, unless you are sending it, say, to weapons.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Arguably, it is not the ability that is 'emergency', but the power...i.e. you are diverting 100% of your emergency power to shields all the time, unless you are sending it, say, to weapons.
Subsystem Power
Auxiliary Power (not to be confused with Auxiliary Power)
Emergency Power
Imaginary Power (the "magic" power used for some of the abilities out there)
Oooooh, speaking of power. We can't forget the new Warp Cores increasing the cap of one of the subsystems.
125 Shield Power = 35% Shield Damage Reduction
130 Shield Power = 36.4% Shield Damage Reducton
Yep, definitely not rocket science there. Still, doesn't address the 100% uptime on something called an Emergency ability... but c'mon, what did they think people were going to take? And then as some have suggested, is it a case that other things ended up being balanced around so many people taking it?
What's worse is that the changes seem to have been made with erroneous information on how the family of emergency power cooldowns actually function.
The gap is 5 seconds out of 45, for 11% - I'm not seeing where you're coming up with a 33% gap in coverage.
T=0 - Use first copy of EPtS 1
T=15 - Global Emergency Power cooldown finishes
T=20 - EPtS buff falls off
T=20.01 - Use second copy of EPtS 1
T=30 - Global Emergency Power cooldown finishes again
T=40 - EPtS buff falls off
T=45 - First copy of EPtS finshes recharging
T=45.1 - Go to T=0
You can also spread the downtime into two 2.5 second chunks on either side of the second EPtS rotation. It's really very marginal - just requires slightly more micromanagement/player finesse to keep up at the right times. We didn't want to increase the duration of EPtW's damage bonus up to 30 seconds, and we definitely wanted all of the Emergency Power buffs to last the same duration. 20 seconds is just the sweet spot of long enough duration to be noticeable, but short enough not to quite be 100% uptime.
Problematic areas in red.
On top of that, it's a complete about face from 2 months ago:
And I'll re-state the wrench that I'll throw in the gears ... massive alpha strikes and SNB coordination are very real concerns on the opposite end of this spectrum. If we toned down Resists and Regen, it would only serve to amplify these tactics and further destabilize many PvP encounters.
The hilarity is that now, they've reduced the need to rely on SNB so heavily!
Instead of toning things down, like gear & rep items, they cut a 10s gap in coverage of a base mitigation ability.
So this spike issue they seemed so worried about? They've made it easier to spike.
Instead of a 90s cycle to try and slip in/defend against SNB+APA spikes, they have created a potential 20s cycle that might not necessarily even require SNB.
Unfortunately they are addressing EPTx in a vacuum they saw that 3 were underused an 1 was over used and then made a huge change because to them it seems more "dynamic' (which is just nonsense, I'd be quite happy to take any handful of systems devs onto my team for some premade PvP and let them get a real feel for what dynamic combat in this game actually is).
From a PvP perspective, players can choose between increasing burst damage (EPtW) or increasing survivability (EPtS). They can also choose "get me as far from this point as possible" (EPtE) or increasing hold effectiveness and stealth detection (EPtA). All of these are real substantial choices to make due to the 15 second Emergency Power global cooldown - unlike most other offensive powers in the game, activating EPtW or EPtA also opens up the activator to spike damage, since they can't use EPtS in that 15 second window.
This is a much more dynamic set of choices to make than previously, where the only real choice was "Macro EPtS into my spacebar."
Unfortunately, this is not really relevant to PvP as we know it.
It also shows that the thinking behind this change is that you should be picking "which emergency ability should I use now!!"
I don't think arbiterhawk fully appreciates that many cruiser builds work by specifically cycling 2 copes of 2 EPTx powers.
Kudos to arbiterhawk on realizing his mistake when it was pointed out to him, on the other hand there has been no visible impact from that realization.
We keep being told to "test it first", and my response to the devs is "sure, please come test it with us in PvP. We will fraps it, and give you combat logs and demonstrations. But you need to be there for it."
Husanak, I'm not afraid for myself, but mainly for the new players comming to pvp. While before they could have at least read hilberts guide and had EPtS + TT cycled, now their life expectancy is like 20s. Surely, that's not a good way to promote PvP and draw more players to it.
Second, with these changes plenty of people will use two copies of RPS to "tank". I have always despised the skill (although I'm using it on some ships as well), but I feel it will be the next "must have"skill. I hate must haves.
Third, I'm afraid that a lot of newbie players will use EpTE to escape the battle. Yes the new speed burst works wonders. So the PUG "group cohesions" will be pain in the TRIBBLE for the healer.
Fourth, even when someone like me liked the regenerative shields, they really only worked with high power/high resists. With EptS change, they are more or less useless, because their cap is low, and without the resistances the regen is slow as well. I could calculate the losses, but why bother ? There aren't any good elite fleet regen shields anyway, and borg shields without resistances won't cut.
And lastly I'm afraid now, they will nuke TT, while I never liked it, the coctail currently mixed is a death sentence for slow turning ship.
On the other hand, seeing as most newbies dont even realize how important TT and EPTS is for survival, i doubt it will matter much in the end.
A thing that seems to be rather awkward is that 20 seconds of EptW, although now the bonus damage is buffed to full duration (or 20 secs rather) the added power level bonus is still useless, unless you manually drop down weapon power and compensate the rest of the gained power level from EPtW, you still have a 10 sec gap every time with dropped weapon power, and manually changing your power levels every so often doesnt seem very practical either.
Comments
There is no variety of abilities with a low cooldown to offset this damage, and that is the point.
And no, just being an uber tank is not really my idea of fun either. However, given that the eng in a cruiser is only going to be able to do that with any kind of effectiveness, then we damn well better be able to.
After hours of testing in group PvP with my fleet, it is no longer stupid to try and blow up a cruiser. Hell, ONE escort timing his damage has very little issue. If he cannot take me out in one 10 second gap, then he will on the next one. If 2 escorts focus on me? Pfft, goodbye.
Yeah, I can keep an escort alive with my healing, but that's because I can give him a full 30 second EPtS with ES. Yay!
So perhaps engineers are useful afterall. You want them around and not blow up JUST long enough to throw your oh so precious escorts ES. Hell, bring 2 engies so when one blows up during that 10 second window, the OTHER one can throw you ES! Wheee! STO is fun for escorts again!
The point is that you don't need 3 bops to get a guaranteed kill anymore. One will suffice. You don't even need SNB anymore, as a patience lasting about 20 seconds will give you the same benefit.
Or two cruisers healing eachother. Yes it's OP i know but i'm sure it could work.
I don't know what your build is and i don't know how you play your cruiser (both entries can be the issue) but if you have a fast turning ship like a galor or an excelsior then an EPTE could also save your precious TRIBBLE.
Escaping for 10s if you have no support is also a valid option, but I guess your team is already doomed if you have no support...
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
It's not trolling, it's just a different perspective.
You won't convince me with "I want to solo tank everything" arguments. If you prove me that a full team of 5 people who work as a team is loosing something when the cruiser has some mitigation downtime then you have a point. Until then, nope, changes are good. It may even be great for teams since people will be trying to fire on cruisers more often. You see what speculation can do with random assumptions and just a different POV.
And by proofs i mean serious stuff, not stupid assumptions that cruisers would be the primary target all the time, that the sci can't confuse, hold, snb, that your tacs/escorts won't harass other escorts, and so on.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
the enemy is easier to kill, as you are, i dont see a problem there, it will be a question of skill timing and strategy, i dont see a problem there too
my science vessel will be more fragile on those 10 or 25 seconds, just like your ship will be too, its not like it will make someone stronger and someone weaker, plus, you have the epte and eptw option,
this is ofcourse my opinion, i can see the point you're trying to make, but i personally like it beeing 20 seconds all eptx, anyway, since you can't rotate them now, i see no point on having a cruiser, really ... this is the last drop for them devs need to make more skills definitely
Have you read any of my posts about how the change will increase the number of people running 2x EPtS and how that 10s gap would be easy to cover regardless of Escort, Cruiser, Science Vessel?
So it will in turn result in more people running an ability that people are up in arms about? It will reduce the number of people that are using the other EPtX abilities?
Etc, etc, etc...and thus...that's why it is a bad change.
Unless the goal of the change is to increase the number of people using 2x EPtS (reducing the number of those that run a single EPtS or run EPtS/EPtX)...then it's not accomplishing anything.
This is what I mean by trolling...because if you had read anything I had said...you wouldn't have replied to me with what you did.
Its not OP, its just absurd. The point of the cruiser is to keep the important damage dealers alive. Keeping each other alive so that you can....keep each other alive is just stupid.
My build is fine, and my play style is fine. Neither entry is the issue. EPtE takes away my ability to heal people. Too many EPtX skills is selfish. If EVERYTHING i have is required to keep myself alive then, again it just becomes stupid.
You said offer proof that it will hurt the team, but yet you say but noting like speculating that cruisers will become prime target? In my tests, we have been. Just because YOU don't like the playstyle of shield tanking with an eng cruiser and are happy that YOU will be able to kill them now solo, doesn't mean it's a good change.
I hate escorts. I have no respect for their builds. However at least before this change, it took some serious skill and coordination to kill a fully tanked healer cruiser. Now, any random free escort with little skill that can slot 4 DHCs can eventually get through a cruisers shields by facerolling on his keyboard. How is this good for the game unless you fly an escort? Even better if you have a KDF with battle cloak.
It's not a FPS. It's not a mindless space shoot 'em up game. These aren't fighters. They're ships with crews ranging from 50 to the thousands. Battles should be drawn out affairs. They shouldn't be endless affairs, no - they shouldn't be that by any means - but they should be drawn out epic battles.
If EPtS is the problem - if EPtS is the reason that people do not die...then think about what they've done with the change. It's still there for 20s. Then it's gone for 10s. That 10s can be covered. So what's changed? What has it fixed?
Wouldn't the smarter thing to do - if EPtS is the problem - be to adjust the power itself? Not just shorten the duration of the power - not make it some sort of Yo-Yo mechanic. Shouldn't they actually have looked at the double resist it gives? Both the resist from the ability and the resist from the additional power?
The 100% uptime has to go. That part is nifty. The penalty for folks not running 2x EPtS needs to be addressed since it just encourages people to run 2x EPtS. But still, they've put in a 10s gap...so what? Folks running a single EPtS or running EPtS/EPtX (either without DCE DOFFs or not having them proc) have been dealing with a 15s gap. If they can handle a 15s gap, then there should be no issue handling the 10s gap. Course, those 15s folks are looking at a 25s gap. So they'll likely move to the 10s gap of running 2x EPtS. They'll definitely be able to handle that 10s gap - cause again, they've been rolling with a 15s gap.
They need not only to reduce the duration - but they also need to reduce the effect of it during the remaining duration. They also need not to penalize people for not running 2x EPtS should they decide to run 1x EPtS or EPtS/EPtX. And they need to be prepared to make multiple adjustments to the abilities depending on feedback...
...because again, it's not some mindless space FPS. It shouldn't be headshot boom.
The game is just so...just so Yo-Yo. They need to find some middleground - and - imho, this change is not doing that.
Buffed target = unkillable. Debuffed target = dead before the whole alpha hits them.
That's kind of what we're faced with, no? Not always, mind you - but that's the gist, eh? It's a SNB world... and unfortunately, that's all this change is - it's just a mini-SNB.
20s buffed, 10s debuffed. Yo-Yo. No middleground. Meh, it's so infuriating.
There have been so many suggestions on how to address the silliness of 100% uptime on Emergency Powers...where they came up with this choice...is just mind-boggling on one hand, but it's sheer Cryptic on the other - look at the rest of the Yo-Yo mechanics in the game. Bah...
TBH i don't think it will. You want to play safe. I don't mind some gambling, considering i currently run my pvp cruiser with 1 EPTS 3 and 1 EPTW 1 (i may change this for EPTE when the update goes live). My 3 purple damage control engineers will proc, most of the times. If it doesn't proc with EPTS it's going to proc with EPTW anyway It's extremely rare when they don't, and when they don't I have a large bag of tricks to cover an extensive downtime.
Honnestly I mostly fear for my temporal destroyers with this change, EPTS is a lot more critical with such ships, but I guess complaining about it would create a lot of anger here. And I don't mind blowing up sometimes, even with my destroyers. That's a part of the game.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I find myself agreeing with you. I could find a way to deal with it honestly if the resist wasn't so bloody high and then completely gone.
i agree with you on that, but all skills beeing 20 seconds is fair, and 1 step forward to achieve balance, but dont blame this change to get your opinion, everything in the game works that way, if there was a middleground, the game wouldn't be as fun as it is, its all about your build and how you use it, if it did have a middleground, there were no point on making a different build and try it, test new things, its that little yoyo thing you talk about, you just try to achieve the highest hights you can with your yo-yo, but that's nothing to do with the change on eptx
1 aspect... the game is getting a little hard for new pvpers to understand ...
With this change I will likely take it away from half of them in favor of the other EPtX abilities. So while you may feel uncomfortable with a reduction in your ability to sustain damage I am excited about the option to focus a boff slot on something other than sustain.
Really though most of the 'its a bad idea' arguments here remind me of the vitriol unleashed when fleet shields got nerfed.
Sustain is too high. Obvious solution is to nerf the single ability that is doubling everyone's sustain. I'm sorry you don't feel that is a good idea but it is.
I suppose I could always focus on doing damage with an eng in a fed cruiser. Oh wait...
Or Speed tanking! Oh, right...
I'm sorry you don't feel that it is a bad idea but it is.
They can rotate two copies of EPtS. They will have a 10s gap instead of the 100% uptime they had, but they can still rotate them. Paying attention to what buffs they've got up (which they should be doing anyway), they'll be in position to cover that 10s gap.
Running EPtS and EPtA... as a rotation or as needed?
Because currently, lots of folks will run EPtS/EPtX with 3x DCE DOFFs - and - have a pretty good chance at having ~99% uptime on both of them. They might miss a proc here and there and eat a 15s gap, but again - they're watching their buffs and they'll cover it.
If you were running them as a rotation and you were running DCE DOFFs - well, you're looking at either a 10s gap or a 25s gap.
The 45s CD on an individual ability has not changed. The duration has dropped to 20s.
45s CD w/ 30s duration - CD runs at the same time. 15s gap.
DCE proc - 30s CD w/ 30s duration - CD runs at same time. 0s gap.
45s CD w/ 20s duration - CD runs at the same time. 25s gap.
DCE proc - 30s CD w/ 20s duration - CD runs at same time. 10s gap.
Don't forget the 15s triggered CD on the different EPtX abilities (30s for the same).
So perhaps you're just going to use them as needed and you're prepared to deal with that 15s triggered CD - you're used to it anyway. Are you prepared for the 25s gap? You use EPtS...after the 20s duration, it will be 25s before you can use it again. You use EPtA...after the 20s duration, it will be 25s before you can use it again.
Unless you gamble with the DCE DOFFs for the 10s duration by doing a rotation with them.
3 of my 8 guys run 2x EPtS. My tank and my two healers. The healers run it not just for their own resistance/regeneration - but because Shield Power also effects ExS. Yes, this also means there is potentially going to be a 10-25s gap in the effectiveness of ExS.
The other 5 guys? 2 run EPtS/EPtW with DCE DOFFs, 1 juggles EPtS/EPtA as needed with the current 15s gap, 1 runs EPtS as needed with the current 15s gap, and one doesn't use any EPtS abilities.
Covering a 15s is one thing. Covering a 25s gap is another. Even the guy that doesn't run EPtS isn't covering a 25s gap...he's got a Battle Cloak.
So 4 of my 8 guys are being penalized for not running 2x EPtS. That's twisted. One could say that's simply the opportunity cost involved for not choosing to run 2x EPtS. Thing is, shouldn't the opportunity cost for not running 2x EPtS...be not running 2x EPtS? Why is there an additional penalty on top of that? That's twisted.
escorts were getting too much profit on getting 1 slot with 1 skill and 15 seconds offtime
other people that really had to use 2 copies had to deal with those 15 wasted seconds of gcd
so there was a bigger benefit for using 1 eptx than rotating them on ships with less eng slots, leaving the lt for the rsp, i see more an issue on people trying to slot skills on eng ships now lol
but of course this is a forum where civilized people discuss about their interests and ideals
this is just my opinion against yours
Here's the question for you though...if you did not already have the 3 purple DCE DOFFs - would you buy them for the chance at a 10s gap with the possibility of it still being a 25s gap? I've got too many toons all clamoring for my EC, lol, and I'm also doing two one-man fleets - so my guys are just running blue DCEs. I can't justify the cost of them if this change goes through.
I don't have a problem dying...lol...on some of my guys, ahem, I'm damn good at dying - lol.
My complaint is with the Yo-Yo nature of the change. Heck, my suggested changes for the EPtX abilities would actually be a bigger nerf to them than this change. But it would be a more balanced nerf. It wouldn't be the on/off thing that Cryptic is so fond of...meh.
It's like my compaints about SNB and cleanses. They're both full. Full strip. Full cleanse. Yo-Yo mechanics. I'd rather see SNB remove some buffs and cleanses remove some debuffs. People would be flying around with a more balanced mix of buffs and debuffs...rather than it being an on/off switch sort of thing.
A 10s gap on 2x EPtS is nothing, imho. 20s out of every minute it's not there...two separate 10s periods that can be covered. 40s out of every minute it's just as powerful as it ever was. That's not addressing the issue. It's just doing a mini on/off switch on it, which even though it's not really much of an off switch... is obviously still Yo-Yo enough to tap into that monstrous pet peeve I have with such mechanics.
Heck, why not change it so that a ship has a certain number of Emergency Charges that regenerate over an extended period of time. Each time you use a charge, the next time you use the ability it will be weaker. 5 charges - full power, 4 charges - 80% power, 3 charges - 60% power, 2 charges - 40% power, 1 charge - 20% power, 0 charge - you have to wait before you can use it again. It's not a quick back and forth...it's not 20s up and 10s down...it's not a Yo-Yo.
It's the nature of the change and that I do not believe it addresses the issue...where I have a problem with the change.
I find that I get a greater sense of accomplishment when I am able to push the limits of a middleground than I do simply twiddling my thumbs while waiting for an inevitable gap that I know will appear.
With the former, I'm testing my skills. With the latter, I'm twiddling my thumbs.
My point is that if we must rely on an emergency power for basic survival than something else is wrong. An emergency power should not be available all the time or else it is not an emergency power, its just power.
Hrmmm, if I had a single Lt Eng BOFF - I'm probably looking at EPtS1/AtS1. I usually won't slot a RSP unless I have two Lt Eng BOFFs. Even with that, it's usually because of there being limited choices for Eng BOFF abilities in general.
I've moved a few guys around in ships (and will probably move a couple more) - funny, they're all ending up in Escorts (/cough)...so some of the ships they were in when we all started discussing these changes are no longer the ships they are in...hrmmm.
Here are the current BOFF layouts for my guys:
TT1, THY2, APO1, APO3
TS1, BO2
EPtS1, AtS1
EPtW1
ST1, HE2, TSS3
TT1, APD1
EPtS1, AtS1
EPtA1
JS1, HE2, TB3, GW3
PH1, TSS2, SS2
TT1, CSV1, APO1, DPB3
TS1, CRF1, APO1
EPtS1, AtS1
HE1, TSS2
ST1
TT1, APD1
EPtS1, RSP1, ET3, AtS3
EPtS1, ExS1, ExS2
HE1, TSS2
ST1
TT1, THY2, APO1, DPB3
TT1, TS2, APO1
EPtS1, AtS1
EPtS1
TSS1, HE2
TSS1, TB2, VM1, GW3
PH1, HE2, PSW1
ST1, TR1
JS1, SS1
TT1, CRF1, APO1, DPB3
BO1, THY2, APO1
EPtS1, AtS1
EPtW1
TSS1, HE2
TT1, APD1
EPtS1, RSP1, ET3, AtS3
EPtS1, ExS1, ExS2
HE1, TSS2
ST1
Man oh man, look at all that EPtS, eh? Look at all that TT, eh? Er, look at all that APO, eh? Um, all that HE and TSS?
Let me do a quick count of survival/healing for each of them:
1) 8 of 12
2) 10 of 12
3) 8 of 12
4) 12 of 12
5) 9 of 12
6) 6 of 11
7) 7 of 12
8) 12 of 12
Hrmmm, and that's not counting innate abilities. There's 4 Eng, 2 Sci, and 2 Tac.
Perhaps that's one of the reasons I'm kind of dismissive of the 10s gap for 2x EPtS (only three guys) and more concerned about the 25s gaps (four guys). The one guy with a single Lt Eng BOFF...well, the ship I'm planning on putting her in will trade an En Sci for an En Eng...heh.
But look at those common abilities, eh?
TT1 - 7 of 8
APO - 5 of 8
APD - 3 of 8
EPtS - 7 of 8
AtS - 7 of 8
RSP/ET/ExS - 2 of 8
HE - 8 of 8
TSS - 8 of 8
ST - 5 of 8
PH - 2 of 8
JS/SS - 2 of 8
Curious that I'm one of the proponents of moving HE/TSS to Eng from Sci, eh? Also somebody that believes ST shouldn't provide a Shield Heal. Course, I think AB should be Sci and not Eng...but anyway...curious, eh?
There's all this talk about what a problem EPtS is...so little about Sci heals. Look at your own Sci BOFFs - how many are Sci abilities and how many are heals?
It's not like with Eng where there really just aren't any choices. En Eng gives you EPtS1, EPtA1, EPtE1, EPtW1, and ET1. ET triggers with TT/ST. The various EPtX abilities trigger with themselves and each other. There aren't that many more choices at Lt (and of course, you're facing any triggers from your En Eng choices).
But that's just abilities. How about bonus defense, eh? Not counting temporary buffs.
2 @ ~60%
1 @ 70%
4 @ 80%
1 @ 85%
I've been lazy with passives, but hey - don't forget all of those. Speaking of those, can't forget the various procs from gear as well!
/sigh
So there's all that...then on the other side - SNB/Tractor/VM.
It's a Yo-Yo.
In the grand scheme of things, a lil' Yo-Yo change to EPtS isn't going to mean sh...TRIBBLE.
It's a name.
Extend Shields doesn't actually extend shields either. Transfer Shield Strength doesn't actually transfer shield strength. Aux to Structural Integrity doesn't actually transfer Aux. Etc, etc, etc...meh.
Course, personally I'd prefer that if they were going to name something...something, er, that it actually do what the name suggests. That includes Emergency Power to Whatever actually being an Emergency thing.
tactical: beams,torpedoes,teams
engineering: ep powers, teams
science: hazzard, polarize hull, transfer shield, tractor beam, jam sensors, teams
I still think that auto shield distro ability, should be an engineering ensign level skill instead it being part of tactical team. But then we would end back with escorts moaning that TT is useless (like it was before).
It never helped that EPtS had a 30s secondary while EPtA/EPtE/EPtW only had a 5s secondary. Long before we reached this point, it would have been interesting to see what gameplay testing would have shown for increased duration on the other EPtX secondaries...
...it wouldn't address the 100% uptime issue by any means - but there are several things it appears they're trying to address at once - rather than piecemeal, so to speak.
Imagine if you had a recipe for...er...a cookie. You bake the cookie. It's not quite right. Something is off. Do you change one thing and try again or do you change a bunch of things and hope for the best (possibly not even changing the thing that made the cookie not quite right in the process)...?
That's how it kind of feels Cryptic is addressing the EPtX issue.
Ensign Engineering BOFF ability selection...
5 abilities.
4 EPtX abilities.
1 of the EPtX abilities has a 30s secondary.
3 of the EPtX abilities have a 5s secondary.
1 Team ability - will conflict with what is considered the main Team ability - an ability oft recommended to have two copies.
What's the likely ability that somebody is going to select?
Yep, definitely not rocket science there. Still, doesn't address the 100% uptime on something called an Emergency ability... but c'mon, what did they think people were going to take? And then as some have suggested, is it a case that other things ended up being balanced around so many people taking it?
Bah, I don't know - I'm posting too much about this. I need to go fly around in circles with autofire on and kill the Crystalline Entity on a few more guys...
Arguably, it is not the ability that is 'emergency', but the power...i.e. you are diverting 100% of your emergency power to shields all the time, unless you are sending it, say, to weapons.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Subsystem Power
Auxiliary Power (not to be confused with Auxiliary Power)
Emergency Power
Imaginary Power (the "magic" power used for some of the abilities out there)
Oooooh, speaking of power. We can't forget the new Warp Cores increasing the cap of one of the subsystems.
125 Shield Power = 35% Shield Damage Reduction
130 Shield Power = 36.4% Shield Damage Reducton
What's worse is that the changes seem to have been made with erroneous information on how the family of emergency power cooldowns actually function.
Problematic areas in red.
On top of that, it's a complete about face from 2 months ago:
The hilarity is that now, they've reduced the need to rely on SNB so heavily!
Instead of toning things down, like gear & rep items, they cut a 10s gap in coverage of a base mitigation ability.
So this spike issue they seemed so worried about? They've made it easier to spike.
Instead of a 90s cycle to try and slip in/defend against SNB+APA spikes, they have created a potential 20s cycle that might not necessarily even require SNB.
Unfortunately they are addressing EPTx in a vacuum they saw that 3 were underused an 1 was over used and then made a huge change because to them it seems more "dynamic' (which is just nonsense, I'd be quite happy to take any handful of systems devs onto my team for some premade PvP and let them get a real feel for what dynamic combat in this game actually is).
Unfortunately, this is not really relevant to PvP as we know it.
It also shows that the thinking behind this change is that you should be picking "which emergency ability should I use now!!"
I don't think arbiterhawk fully appreciates that many cruiser builds work by specifically cycling 2 copes of 2 EPTx powers.
Kudos to arbiterhawk on realizing his mistake when it was pointed out to him, on the other hand there has been no visible impact from that realization.
We keep being told to "test it first", and my response to the devs is "sure, please come test it with us in PvP. We will fraps it, and give you combat logs and demonstrations. But you need to be there for it."
On the other hand, seeing as most newbies dont even realize how important TT and EPTS is for survival, i doubt it will matter much in the end.
A thing that seems to be rather awkward is that 20 seconds of EptW, although now the bonus damage is buffed to full duration (or 20 secs rather) the added power level bonus is still useless, unless you manually drop down weapon power and compensate the rest of the gained power level from EPtW, you still have a 10 sec gap every time with dropped weapon power, and manually changing your power levels every so often doesnt seem very practical either.
Cruiser running EPTS 3
vs.
Escort running EPTS 1
Which one has larger resistance dip during the 10s gap?
(hint Cruiser loses 30% resistance and approx 35 power, Escort loses 18% resistance and approx 20 power)
Guess which ship class is running EPTW to hit that 125 (or overcap) to run their 8 weapons?
Guess which ship will lose more DPS when that EPTW 10s gap happens?