All I am seeing is a bunch of other people who seem to get what I am saying, and you coming up with excuses as to why it needs to stay the same by defending how broken it really is.
<insert insult of your choice here to get it out of the way, eh?>
Where have I said that it needed to stay the same? What excuses?
<go ahead and insert another insult of your choice here - it's definitely warranted>
I pointed out where the changes will make it more likely for people to run two copies of EPtS than currently exists.
That's not a case of saying that things are fine or do not need to change.
<grab another insult of your choice and let it simmer for a moment>
That's a case of saying that the change will make things worse - which I illustrated.
Yes, something is broken. Yes, this will not fix it. But going back to the old way, where you MUST use two ENG powers constantly is illustrating my point
/cough
/deep breath
By providing examples of 8 toons - where only 3...only 3...only 3 of the 8 are using the same ability constantly...where 5 of the 8 do not...is not illustrating your point.
Showing how 6 of those 8 will use the same two abilities constantly...does illustrate your point.
Now one of those is current (3 of 8) and one of those is LoR (6 of 8).
/deep breath
So which of those would be worse?
And dear God, why are you complaining about that situation that doesn't actually exist while championing a change that will all but ensure that situation does actually exist?
, its no longer really emergency power to shields anymore, it's just power to shields, isn't it? If that much more shields is actually NEEDED to play the game, then we need to address why that is, not just ignore the problem and keep going.
Which would be great...if they were addressing the issue. I haven't said they shouldn't address the issue. I've said they shouldn't make it worse. I'm all for addressing the issue.
I really like the idea a couple posts above mine, let it last longer for higher levels of the ability. That makes Engineers in cruisers with their shield boosts better able to counter Tacs with their damage boosts, while giving them a window to take down Tacs in escorts when their shields are cycling even though they have less firepower. It will take some doing to balance it all out, but it seems sensible.
One thing you have to keep in mind is separating Careers from Ships.
Did you know that this change to the EPtX abilities will affect different folks in different ways?
EPtW for example. While it is a nerf for everybody, it is less of a nerf for a Tac - it is less of a nerf for an Escort...it's that much less of a nerf for a Tac in an Escort.
So by boosting the higher levels of EPtS in duration...it won't matter if it is a Tac or an Eng in the Cruiser - they'll both benefit from that.
Has anyone tested whether the increased duration of the damage bonus from EPtW actually compensates for the shorter duration of the weapon power bonus? A back-of-the-envelope calculation seems to suggest that this is not the case.
Assumptions:
1. With 99 in "Starship Electro-Plasma Systems", EPtW1 grants +22.4 to weapon power.
2. Each unit of weapon power adds 2% of the base damage of the weapon.
3. The damage bonus from EPtW1 adds 10% of the base damage of the weapon.
4. Old EPtW1: damage bonus lasts 5 seconds, weapon power bonus lasts 30 seconds.
5. New EPtW1: damage bonus lasts 20 seconds, weapon power bonus lasts 20 seconds.
Gain from increased duration of damage bonus: 0.1 * (20 - 5) = 1.5
Loss from decreased duration of weapon power bonus: 0.02 * 22.4 * (30 - 20) = 4.48
Note: This is not as reliable as testing, since there may be something wrong with my assumptions.
Has anyone tested whether the increased duration of the damage bonus from EPtW actually compensates for the shorter duration of the weapon power bonus? A back-of-the-envelope calculation seems to suggest that this is not the case.
Assumptions:
1. With 99 in "Starship Electro-Plasma Systems", EPtW1 grants +22.4 to weapon power.
2. Each unit of weapon power adds 2% of the base damage of the weapon.
3. The damage bonus from EPtW1 adds 10% of the base damage of the weapon.
4. Old EPtW1: damage bonus lasts 5 seconds, weapon power bonus lasts 30 seconds.
5. New EPtW1: damage bonus lasts 20 seconds, weapon power bonus lasts 20 seconds.
Gain from increased duration of damage bonus: 0.1 * (20 - 5) = 1.5
Loss from decreased duration of weapon power bonus: 0.02 * 22.4 * (30 - 20) = 4.48
Note: This is not as reliable as testing, since there may be something wrong with my assumptions.
Some paper testing shows that EPtW is also a nerf. Additionally, it shows that it is less of a nerf for a Tac, for somebody in an Escort, and of course the Tac in the Escort.
By the way, EPtW does not add to base damage. It's a final modifier.
Weapon Base, Mark, Rarity, Skills, Consoles, Set Bonuses combine to give you a certain number. That number is modified by Weapon Power (100 Weapon Power results in twice the damage from that original number) and various abilities (+25% from APO3 would add 25% of that certain number to the damage (rough example: 100 damage w/APO3 and 100 Weapon Power would be 225 damage)). Say you've got EPtW1 - you'd multiply that last number by 1.1 to get your new damage. Because of drain mechanics, the ability to overcap weapon power to provide a buffer, etc, etc, etc - the change actually results in a nerf to the damage being done.
A Tac with access to additional modifiers that neither the Eng nor Sci has access to - results in a smaller nerf.
An Escort being able to slot higher level/more Tac BOFF abilities than a Cruiser or Science Vessel - results in a smaller nerf.
Some paper testing shows that EPtW is also a nerf. Additionally, it shows that it is less of a nerf for a Tac, for somebody in an Escort, and of course the Tac in the Escort.
By the way, EPtW does not add to base damage. It's a final modifier.
Weapon Base, Mark, Rarity, Skills, Consoles, Set Bonuses combine to give you a certain number. That number is modified by Weapon Power (100 Weapon Power results in twice the damage from that original number) and various abilities (+25% from APO3 would add 25% of that certain number to the damage (rough example: 100 damage w/APO3 and 100 Weapon Power would be 225 damage)). Say you've got EPtW1 - you'd multiply that last number by 1.1 to get your new damage. Because of drain mechanics, the ability to overcap weapon power to provide a buffer, etc, etc, etc - the change actually results in a nerf to the damage being done.
A Tac with access to additional modifiers that neither the Eng nor Sci has access to - results in a smaller nerf.
An Escort being able to slot higher level/more Tac BOFF abilities than a Cruiser or Science Vessel - results in a smaller nerf.
Let me see if I understand you correctly:
1. Weapon power applies after mark, rarity, skills, consoles, and set bonuses.
2. Damage bonus from EPtW applies after weapon power as well as mark, rarity, skills, consoles, and set bonuses.
A good start the time changes needed to happen as shields was way out of line with any other eptx power. However, theres gonna need to be some testing, and most defiantly in pvp as you can get away with gaps in PvE as the borg dont watch your power timers. A team of players will however flay you alive the moment your shield resists drop.
You can either fix this by some further mods to epts or I think the best but more painful route of changing how base shields behave.
Atm I hate how you must have epts# up and running 100% or you will explode in the next 3 seconds in high difficulty's or even more so PvP. I would like epts not to be a must absolutely have. And atm it is not because the others suck which they did, but because if you dont you die pitifully.
I think in an escort you could get away with the new change if you are evasive as hell and KHG shield + rom passive to reduce incoming hits. So you could technically just push escorts into a new playstyle while everyone else drops their pants every 20 seconds. Thats bad try an avoid that outcome.
1. Weapon power applies after mark, rarity, skills, consoles, and set bonuses.
2. Damage bonus from EPtW applies after weapon power as well as mark, rarity, skills, consoles, and set bonuses.
Looks better, right? It ignored drain. With the Before, I had +25 Weapon Power from the EPtW1....25 Weapon Power overcap drain buffer. Weapon drain took place against 150 Weapon Power - not 125...for the 30s. With the After, I've got 10s where drain is taking place against 125 Weapon Power. Multiple weapons, various drain mechanics (beams vs. cannons), and it will actually result in a loss of damage.
That 1153.8 DPV is based on 125 Weapon Power - which means the damage before Weapon Power is 1153.8/2.5 = 461.52 damage. Each point of Weapon Power above 50 is worth 2% (125 gives +150% damage). That 25 Weapon Power from EPtW (whether boosting or fighting drain) could be worth 230.76 damage per shot. The +10% from EPtW was only giving me 115.4 damage per shot.
With the example using Beam Arrays 4 shots per 5 seconds, that means 16 shots in 20 seconds and 8 shots in 10 seconds. Which is what they probably looked at - glanced at - etc, etc, etc. 16 x 115.4 ~= 8 x 230.76 (they should roughly balance out). But drain doesn't play nice and the loss from the lack of buffer (or outright weapon power) will have an edge on the gain from that "final modifier"...
...the difference will be smaller for the Tac in an Escort than the Eng in a Cruiser, mind you. That "final modifier" applies after APA, GDF, APO, CRF, FAW, etc, etc, etc.
I said this in the other thread, repeating it here because it needs to be said. These changes are a good first step to fixing the "EPTS as a passive" problem, and making other Emergency powers more attractive.
I agree with Eradicator and Jaturnley that they could be made even better by making higher levels of the ability give a longer duration / uptime. Ensign slots can still be used for windows of burst/heal, while Lt. Comm. gives you sustain.
Also, as I mentioned in the other thread, consider letting these abilities push past the 125 power cap, so they truly are "Emergency" power. I'd much rather see long cooldown, impactful abilities then always-cycling passives. An escort hitting EPTW should be damn scary. A cruiser hitting EPTS should be damn tough. All of these abilities should feel super rewarding, rather than being just another link in the macro chain.
I like how EPt (A, E, W) were increased in utility, but I have mixed opinions on EPtS. One the one hand, it'll make 2x EPtS Escorts less tanky, but on the other, it'll also make Cruisers have a painful 10 seconds where EPtS 3 isn't granting it's Shield DR buff.
That's what your missing here. This will not hurt escorts. The EPtW buff more than makes up for the shield tanking loss on an escort. Cruiser and sci ships on the other will be sitting ducks for an Defiant or BoP using: De-cloak-->EPtW-->>full alpha buffs-->>kill defenseless cruiser or sci ship--->>Evasive and get out before someone shoots you ... Re-cloak ... rinse .... repeat.
I say this as an escort captain. Knowing how easy this is going to make killing cruisers and sci ships in my BoP or Defiant is why escort captains like me are out-crying against this. Do you really think there is a ship that without EPtS active can survive Tac Team + FOMM + APA + APO3 + CRF3 + EPtW + Beam Overload 3 when the buff from EPtW is going to last 20 seconds? How are you going to keep your healboat cruiser alive if you cannot cycle EPtS while giving all your other heals to teammates?
Remember that as I sit there hiding in cloak, I can see when you use EPtS to prebuff and just wait the exact right amount of time to make sure my alpha strike is in the "gap" between cycles. On the other hand if you try and use the gap to attack my escort with your cruiser I will just APO and EM away.
Looks better, right? It ignored drain. With the Before, I had +25 Weapon Power from the EPtW1....25 Weapon Power overcap drain buffer. Weapon drain took place against 150 Weapon Power - not 125...for the 30s. With the After, I've got 10s where drain is taking place against 125 Weapon Power. Multiple weapons, various drain mechanics (beams vs. cannons), and it will actually result in a loss of damage.
That 1153.8 DPV is based on 125 Weapon Power - which means the damage before Weapon Power is 1153.8/2.5 = 461.52 damage. Each point of Weapon Power above 50 is worth 2% (125 gives +150% damage). That 25 Weapon Power from EPtW (whether boosting or fighting drain) could be worth 230.76 damage per shot. The +10% from EPtW was only giving me 115.4 damage per shot.
With the example using Beam Arrays 4 shots per 5 seconds, that means 16 shots in 20 seconds and 8 shots in 10 seconds. Which is what they probably looked at - glanced at - etc, etc, etc. 16 x 115.4 ~= 8 x 230.76 (they should roughly balance out). But drain doesn't play nice and the loss from the lack of buffer (or outright weapon power) will have an edge on the gain from that "final modifier"...
...the difference will be smaller for the Tac in an Escort than the Eng in a Cruiser, mind you. That "final modifier" applies after APA, GDF, APO, CRF, FAW, etc, etc, etc.
I'm guessing that you are actually right and that actual in-game testing will show that the change to EPtW is actually a nerf, not a buff. If so, then they should increase the damage bonus from EPtW.
Definitely hop on and play with the change and let us know if it's impossible to survive ESTFs or whatnot, but I'm fairly confident that the decrease in survivability is very marginal in almost all situations, and that the hole in EPtS's uptime can be covered by other defensive cooldowns by ships built to focus on survivability.
You do realize that I can take a Recluse carrier, Galaxy, etc. from full shield / armor HP to dead in under ten seconds if it doesn't have resist buffs, right? By forcing a hole in the all-important epts shield resist rotation, you create a huge window of vulnerability in PvP. If you want to test this internally, Branflakes has a decent enough pvp escort; get him to shoot at you a little bit during that cycle gap and see what happens. I think you'll notice the pain.
Please, please keep in mind that you have to balance not just for consistent npc-derived DPS, but the 15k+ dps spikes that players can generate. Going from 25% resists to 0% resists means that you're taking a third more damage for that 10-second gap than you would otherwise, causing a significant problem for healers.
All of these abilities should feel super rewarding, rather than being just another link in the macro chain.
There's no doubt that something titled "Emergency Power to..." should likely have more of that emergency feel to it rather than just being part of that always up when available spacebar spam.
To the person that just has the single EPtS1...well, they already feel that to an extent, no? Not much of an extent, lol, but to an extent. They've got 30s uptime and 15s downtime. They'll definitely feel that more with the 20s uptime and 25s downtime.
What about the person that runs 2x EPtS1? They sport 100% uptime currently. There's nothing "emergency" about that in the least. This change though, won't really change that. 20s up, 10s down, 20s up, 10s down. Depending on what they're running or with whom they're running, that 10s will be covered one way or another. Are they likely to stop using 2x EPtS1? Well, they might consider what some others do...
...those that run EptS1/EPtX1. They'll usually sport 3x DCE(EPt) DOFFs and try for that ~99% uptime (having anywhere between 0-1s to 10s down). Well, that's currently. With the changes, they're looking at 10-25s downtime for the same investment. 2x EPtS1 looks better with its static 10s downtime than using 3 DOFFs to gamble against 25s downtime. Even the current EPtS1/EPtX1 folks are likely to consider switching to 2x EPtS1.
Some may still go that EPtS1/EPtW1 route - knowing that the spike damage boost from the EPtW1 timed during the gap in somebody's EPtS1 could be enough to vape them. That's likely going to be something the more organized groups do though - cause they'll be looking at their own potential 25s gap on EPtS1.
Also, don't forget that Shield Power affects ExS as well. There will be gaps in effectiveness there as well.
So let's see - how does this change made it feel like an emergency power?
Well, the guy that was already using it as such is likely to continue using it as such...or he may even pick up a second one and stop using it as such. The guy using two will continue to use it as a non-emergency power and try to cover the gap. The guy that was using it and something else...depending on the team, may very well end up just going with two EPtS as well.
It's a complete failure if that is the intent. That's above and beyond the Yo-Yo nature of the change as well. They're still sporting the "too high" resistance for 20s, no? Then for 10s...they're possibly vulnerable? Because damage keeps getting higher all the time.
Something that folks need to keep in mind about the "unkillable" ships out there is that it's a package deal. It's not just because they're sporting EPtS or 2x EPtS or even cycling EPtS/EPtX. It's their bonus defense, it's their gear, it's their piloting, it's their other abilities, and it's what the person that's attacking them is doing.
How many folks are flying the "unkillable" ships that folks complain about...and...how many folks fly ships that are simply going to be vaped by these changes?
Honestly, if one were to look at the EPtX abilities...
EPtA
Repair disabled Aux.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Aux Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
EPtE
Repair disabled Eng.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Eng Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
EPtS
Repair disabled Shield.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Shield Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
EPtW
Repair disabled Weapon.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Weapon Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
...but I wouldn't implement that until something was done about all the other damage/damage resist/damage reduction/healing/etc that's in the game as well. Because it's a package deal.
I definitely believe that's how the EPt abilities should work - as I outlined just above - but I just don't see them working with the way the game currently is. I think people woefully underestimate how much damage has been added to the game in the past year. Yes, there are a bunch of things that have been added to the defensive side as well - all sorts of silly procs (I mean, c'mon - a 25 Weapon Power Mk I Turret will proc the same heal as a 125 Weapon Power Mk XII DBB with BO3, APA, APO, GDF, TT, 5x VR Mk XII Tac consoles, other consoles, etc, etc, etc, etc...SILLY!).
One can look at a target:
"Unkillable" vs. SNB & "Dead"
It's too Yo-Yo. This 20s up and 25s down (or 10s down) is just too Yo-Yo.
Let's do something about the Yo-Yo Mechanics (timing is one thing - this yo-yo stuff? bah)...let's create an environment where we can make the EPt abilities be the emergency abilities they claim to be rather than EPtS being the "needed" ability many claim.
And c'mon, taking away the "needed" ability without changing why some feel it's "needed" - how is that going to make anything better? Remove that "need" - replace it with "want" and then let players evaluate the opportunity cost involved.
Oh, and this has been overlooked in so much of this:
Engineering Ensign BOFFs
5 Abilities, 4 in one Family, 1 in a Family with Tac/Sci
Ok i just tested a bit more around with the changes in Emergency Power to X with my sci ship.
The Emergency Power to Aux is pointelss, cause my aux is at max anyways and the boni you get to the sci skills is so low, that you don?t even recognize it.
Emergency Power to Eng is basically the same thing. I am close to the max defense you get with speed anyways and my turnrate is quite good without the extra engine power. So if i want to get out fast i use a Deuterium or EM, which makes the Emergency Power to Engines useless.
The Emergency Power to Weapons is useless also, cause if i run the aux cannons on the Vesta weapon power is pointelss anyways. If i run beams i have weapon power nearly at max most the time. Aux is lower then in exchange, but for the view times you need higher aux i can also pop a battery. And the damage Bonus you get from it is way to low to justify spending one of the few eng slots for it.
Which brings us to Emergency Power to Shields. No difference in pve, cause as i mentioned in a previouse post you can do most pve content anyways by facerolling the keyboard.
Due to the lack of PvP on Tribble a test in that direction wasn?t doable. But from my experience i can say, that if you have a 10 sec resistance gap in pvp, escorts will be able to pop you in that gap with ease. Depending on the oponent it is already quite stressfull to stay alive with max resistances when a escort alpha strikes you. If a good escort hits you at the right time it takes max. 5 sec. to destroy a ship.
So basically, the changes you made are a total fail (again).
The thing i don?t understand is, why you don?t test such things with Fleets that are active in pvp.
PVE isn?t that useful to test if certain things work. The equation is easy, things that work in pvp do work in pve also, but things that work in pve don?t necessarily work in pvp.
I know the pvp comunity is a small part of the playerbase, but at least that is the part which is testing their builds and skills to the limit to keep an edge over each other.
So you really should test such things in matches against the top pvp premades.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
Guys please stop saying they're nerfing cruisers. They're nerfing your current builds. And mine. But there are MANY new toys planned for LoR, like the 90s miracle worker, the +20 to subsystems when you use a battery (just pick a battery CD reduction doff), warp cores, more tanking for tacs...
Everyone will need some time to find a new balance but in no way it's a "nerf of cruisers". Mine has a 40-50% base resistance to most energy types. Just buy more armor consoles and you're safe. I guess we'll get specific warp cores allowing everyone to get more power to shields and increase resistance anyway. I'm not sure yet about how this is going to work but no, engineers are about to get a massive buff and the best space traits with the expansion. So, why not?
I really do feel an explanation is needed by a dev as to why this nerf came out of nowhere which none of us were expecting ?
id also like to know if gecko was involved in some way as I know being the bitter person that he is, I wouldn't put it past him to be spiteful towards the playerbase ?
I mean come on guys its been 3 years and the systems team are still messign around with the core game mechanics, I mean really ?
The Emergency Power to Aux is pointelss, cause my aux is at max anyways and the boni you get to the sci skills is so low, that you don?t even recognize it.
The +StealthSight for 20s every 45s (or less) can be nifty.
I guess we'll get specific warp cores allowing everyone to get more power to shields and increase resistance anyway.
Common warp cores give +5 maximum power to one subsystem. This increases the cap from 125 to 130; it doesn't actually give you any power. Warp cores can have modifiers that increase power to one subsystem based on the power level of another subsystem; for example, [W->S] increases your shield power based on your weapon power. However, people in other threads are reporting that the largest increase in power you can get is around +6. Each unit of shield power grants 0.28% shield resistance. So +6 shield power will give you +1.68% shield resistance; this is rather small.
I'm not sure yet about how this is going to work but no, engineers are about to get a massive buff and the best space traits with the expansion. So, why not?
You keep saying this, but I've not seen you justify it once. Don't just say that the +20 power to each subsystem will increase your shield resistance, speed, turn rate, and healing. What are your numbers exactly?
The +StealthSight for 20s every 45s (or less) can be nifty.
It is pointless for pve. In pvp it doesn?t justify to use one of the few eng slots for it. Imo it basically just coutners the new Romulan trait that increses stealth. Not to mention that you can use it also to increase your own stealth rating to counter the sight.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
People were whining there is too much defense in game, and lo, behold, the most effective defense mechanism get nerfed.
This is why always whining to "nerf x" is a bad idea.
A ten second gap... honestly, I don't mind. If you have a second tactical team, that should cover that .
But EPTA is now useful, and EPTW gives a much better bonus.
And if you miss the shield power bonus, why not go to the 100 shield 50 weapons power bonus and then hit EPTW when the EPTS expires?
But I do dislike the dumbing down of the kit rewards.
Durrr, hurr, I am engineer... I'll chose tactical kit... herp.... I'm pakled...derp!
I mind the nerf and i guess i am not the only one.
In which way is EPt Aux now usefull? Despite the Energy bonus which you already got before, the other boni are pointless... Maybe the stealth in some cases, but anything else then a sci ship has so less stealth sight anyways that it won?t matter much.
And EPTW just gives to less dmg bonus also. If you are going in offense mode your weapons run at max power anyways. And if you need to tank you can?t afford to pop Anything else then an Emergency Power to Shields for higher resistences.
In addidion not everyone has the slot to run a second tac team. There are plenty of ships which only have 2 tac slots, not to mention that they put the other teams on global cd, or the tac team is on global cd, cause of one of the other teams.
Changing the Energy Settign won`t give you the bonus resistence you get from Emergency Power to Shields itself, despite from the bonus you get from the higher shield energy lvl.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
You know the devs are on the right track, when so many complain about the change. I agree that Emergency Power abilities should be used in, an emergency situation. Not something that is permanently applied.
In most other MMOs, tanks don't have "permanent survivability skills" with 100% uptime. Why should STO be different in this regard?
You know the devs are on the right track, when so many complain about the change. I agree that Emergency Power abilities should be used in, an emergency situation. Not something that is permanently applied.
In most other MMOs, tanks don't have "permanent survivability skills" with 100% uptime. Why should STO be different in this regard?
I can asure you, they are not on the right track. To get there the whole skillsystem would need an overhaul. And several consoles and TRIBBLE should get kicked out of the game. Best thing would be if there would be a different skillset and Equipment for PVE and PvP like in other MMOs.
Lets Face it, in pve it won?t make a difference, the "only" thing that it will have an effect on, is pvp. But ok, guess we will just get more pvp matches then where you just idle until it is done, to get the dil. Which is sad, cause before all the nice changes and toys from the Zen-Store or Lockboxes, pvp was so much more fun once...
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
It is pointless for pve. In pvp it doesn?t justify to use one of the few eng slots for it. Imo it basically just coutners the new Romulan trait that increses stealth. Not to mention that you can use it also to increase your own stealth rating to counter the sight.
The person looking for Stealthers is more likely to use it than the person Stealthing.
EPtA1 will give +50 StealthSight.
That's +100 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +50 Perception.
That's +1 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
EPtA2 will give +75 StealthSight.
That's +150 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +75 Perception.
That's +1.5 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
EPtA3 will give +100 StealthSight.
That's +200 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +100 Perception.
That's +2 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
Base Stealth w/0 Aux is 4925. 50 Aux puts it at 4975. That's your standard Stealth - no points in Stealth skill and no +Stealth gear.
My unfinished Snooper can see that guy at 7km.
W/ EPtA1, I can see him at 8km for 20s with the changes (instead of 5s).
W/ EPtA1 & Scan 3, I can see him ~16km for 20s (again, 1km coming from the EPtA1).
Say it was somebody that put some effort into Stealthing.
4925 (Base)
5050 (125 Aux)
5099.5 (9 in Stealth)
5199.5 (Subterfuge BOFF)
5229.5 (Reman Mk XII Deflector - even though it's bugged)
5277.35 (3x UR Stealth Modules)
Not going to give them EPtA - figure they'll EPtW, eh?
W/ EPtA1 & Scan 3, I'll still see them outside weapon range for 20s. That's on my unfinished Snooper. W/o the EPtA - I wouldn't see them until they were inside weapon range.
Even without the Scan 3, I'll still see them at 2 km with the EPtA1. They're trying to sneak in to drop some mines or get in close for a TBR shove? Yeah, even the guy that's put all that effort in will be seen at 2 km. The guy that didn't...8 km.
What does the EPtA1 provide as well?
+25 Aux Power
(yes, used to be for 30s) which allows me to run 125/75 for 20s instead of 125/100.
+10 [Gra], [PrtG], and [SubD]
some might say that's less than what you'd get from a VR Mk II console for each (would require 3 consoles, mind you)
some might say that's equivalent to 2x Mk VI deflector mods (some might even say equivalent to a Mk XIV deflector mod)
some might say it's not even worth 7,000 skill points
some might say that's worth 21,000 skill points
yeah, it's a matter of perspective
People were whining there is too much defense in game, and lo, behold, the most effective defense mechanism get nerfed.
This is why always whining to "nerf x" is a bad idea.
A ten second gap... honestly, I don't mind. If you have a second tactical team, that should cover that .
But EPTA is now useful, and EPTW gives a much better bonus.
And if you miss the shield power bonus, why not go to the 100 shield 50 weapons power bonus and then hit EPTW when the EPTS expires?
But I do dislike the dumbing down of the kit rewards.
Durrr, hurr, I am engineer... I'll chose tactical kit... herp.... I'm pakled...derp!
Not sure where you get the most effective defense mechanism from, I find it somewhere near the bottom of the shields pile...
Anyways, this is another nerf, and frankly I am just getting a little more the p.....d off at Nerf Trek Oblivion which is what this game has become. So many whingers complaining something OP this needs a nerf, that needs a nerf. The ONLY thing that needs a nerf is whingers complaining that something needs a nerf...
STOP THE NERF!!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
The person looking for Stealthers is more likely to use it than the person Stealthing.
EPtA1 will give +50 StealthSight.
That's +100 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +50 Perception.
That's +1 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
EPtA2 will give +75 StealthSight.
That's +150 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +75 Perception.
That's +1.5 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
EPtA3 will give +100 StealthSight.
That's +200 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +100 Perception.
That's +2 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
Base Stealth w/0 Aux is 4925. 50 Aux puts it at 4975. That's your standard Stealth - no points in Stealth skill and no +Stealth gear.
My unfinished Snooper can see that guy at 7km.
W/ EPtA1, I can see him at 8km for 20s with the changes (instead of 5s).
W/ EPtA1 & Scan 3, I can see him ~16km for 20s (again, 1km coming from the EPtA1).
Say it was somebody that put some effort into Stealthing.
4925 (Base)
5050 (125 Aux)
5099.5 (9 in Stealth)
5199.5 (Subterfuge BOFF)
5229.5 (Reman Mk XII Deflector - even though it's bugged)
5277.35 (3x UR Stealth Modules)
Not going to give them EPtA - figure they'll EPtW, eh?
W/ EPtA1 & Scan 3, I'll still see them outside weapon range for 20s. That's on my unfinished Snooper. W/o the EPtA - I wouldn't see them until they were inside weapon range.
Even without the Scan 3, I'll still see them at 2 km with the EPtA1. They're trying to sneak in to drop some mines or get in close for a TBR shove? Yeah, even the guy that's put all that effort in will be seen at 2 km. The guy that didn't...8 km.
What does the EPtA1 provide as well?
+25 Aux Power
(yes, used to be for 30s) which allows me to run 125/75 for 20s instead of 125/100.
+10 [Gra], [PrtG], and [SubD]
some might say that's less than what you'd get from a VR Mk II console for each (would require 3 consoles, mind you)
some might say that's equivalent to 2x Mk VI deflector mods (some might even say equivalent to a Mk XIV deflector mod)
some might say it's not even worth 7,000 skill points
some might say that's worth 21,000 skill points
yeah, it's a matter of perspective
AS soon as ppl start using it, ppl who are using stealth to sneak up on you will put effort in stealth. And again for pve it is pointless anyways.
That's a prime example of a MMO that had pisspoor design.
Nope, just makes it easier to balance for pvp when ppl figure out some combinations that get op. That way you don?t have to take care of the pvp content when you want to balance pve and the other way round.
But maybe we have a different sight on pvp. Fair pvp equipmentwise, would mean everyone has equal equipment. In pve it doesn?t matter if someone has equipment that is way better then yours, in pvp it does.
I dunno how it is with you, but where is the challenge if you beat someone, cause you have way better equipment? That just means you spend more time in grinding/money, not that you are better. It is kinda like using cheats that are allowed.
Reynolds/Thokal
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class/R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit TheWiseGuys
Comments
<insert insult of your choice here to get it out of the way, eh?>
Where have I said that it needed to stay the same? What excuses?
<go ahead and insert another insult of your choice here - it's definitely warranted>
I pointed out where the changes will make it more likely for people to run two copies of EPtS than currently exists.
That's not a case of saying that things are fine or do not need to change.
<grab another insult of your choice and let it simmer for a moment>
That's a case of saying that the change will make things worse - which I illustrated.
/cough
/deep breath
By providing examples of 8 toons - where only 3...only 3...only 3 of the 8 are using the same ability constantly...where 5 of the 8 do not...is not illustrating your point.
Showing how 6 of those 8 will use the same two abilities constantly...does illustrate your point.
Now one of those is current (3 of 8) and one of those is LoR (6 of 8).
/deep breath
So which of those would be worse?
And dear God, why are you complaining about that situation that doesn't actually exist while championing a change that will all but ensure that situation does actually exist?
/cough
Not everybody must. I even gave an example of a guy that doesn't. Want a real trip? I've got guys without TT too.
Which would be great...if they were addressing the issue. I haven't said they shouldn't address the issue. I've said they shouldn't make it worse. I'm all for addressing the issue.
One thing you have to keep in mind is separating Careers from Ships.
Did you know that this change to the EPtX abilities will affect different folks in different ways?
EPtW for example. While it is a nerf for everybody, it is less of a nerf for a Tac - it is less of a nerf for an Escort...it's that much less of a nerf for a Tac in an Escort.
So by boosting the higher levels of EPtS in duration...it won't matter if it is a Tac or an Eng in the Cruiser - they'll both benefit from that.
Will Attack Pattern Omega finally get nuked?
Assumptions:
1. With 99 in "Starship Electro-Plasma Systems", EPtW1 grants +22.4 to weapon power.
2. Each unit of weapon power adds 2% of the base damage of the weapon.
3. The damage bonus from EPtW1 adds 10% of the base damage of the weapon.
4. Old EPtW1: damage bonus lasts 5 seconds, weapon power bonus lasts 30 seconds.
5. New EPtW1: damage bonus lasts 20 seconds, weapon power bonus lasts 20 seconds.
Gain from increased duration of damage bonus: 0.1 * (20 - 5) = 1.5
Loss from decreased duration of weapon power bonus: 0.02 * 22.4 * (30 - 20) = 4.48
Note: This is not as reliable as testing, since there may be something wrong with my assumptions.
Some paper testing shows that EPtW is also a nerf. Additionally, it shows that it is less of a nerf for a Tac, for somebody in an Escort, and of course the Tac in the Escort.
By the way, EPtW does not add to base damage. It's a final modifier.
Weapon Base, Mark, Rarity, Skills, Consoles, Set Bonuses combine to give you a certain number. That number is modified by Weapon Power (100 Weapon Power results in twice the damage from that original number) and various abilities (+25% from APO3 would add 25% of that certain number to the damage (rough example: 100 damage w/APO3 and 100 Weapon Power would be 225 damage)). Say you've got EPtW1 - you'd multiply that last number by 1.1 to get your new damage. Because of drain mechanics, the ability to overcap weapon power to provide a buffer, etc, etc, etc - the change actually results in a nerf to the damage being done.
A Tac with access to additional modifiers that neither the Eng nor Sci has access to - results in a smaller nerf.
An Escort being able to slot higher level/more Tac BOFF abilities than a Cruiser or Science Vessel - results in a smaller nerf.
Let me see if I understand you correctly:
1. Weapon power applies after mark, rarity, skills, consoles, and set bonuses.
2. Damage bonus from EPtW applies after weapon power as well as mark, rarity, skills, consoles, and set bonuses.
You can either fix this by some further mods to epts or I think the best but more painful route of changing how base shields behave.
Atm I hate how you must have epts# up and running 100% or you will explode in the next 3 seconds in high difficulty's or even more so PvP. I would like epts not to be a must absolutely have. And atm it is not because the others suck which they did, but because if you dont you die pitifully.
I think in an escort you could get away with the new change if you are evasive as hell and KHG shield + rom passive to reduce incoming hits. So you could technically just push escorts into a new playstyle while everyone else drops their pants every 20 seconds. Thats bad try an avoid that outcome.
1) Weapon Base, Rarity, Mark, Skills, Consoles, Set Bonuses.
2) Weapon Power, Tac/Tac BOFF Abilities
3) EPtW
Example:
1) & 2) give one of my guys 1153.8 DPV on one of his beam arrays at 125 Weapon Power.
3) 1269.2 DPV is the number after EPtW1 (+10% or *1.1)
It's a "final" modifier.
Looking at that, we should be able to do a Before & After.
Before:
5s @ 1269.2 DPV (1015.4 DPS)
25s @ 1153.8 DPV (923.1 DPS)
~28154.5 damage
After:
20s @ 1269.2 DPV (1015.4 DPS)
10s @ 1153.8 DPV (923.1 DPS)
~29539 damage
Looks better, right? It ignored drain. With the Before, I had +25 Weapon Power from the EPtW1....25 Weapon Power overcap drain buffer. Weapon drain took place against 150 Weapon Power - not 125...for the 30s. With the After, I've got 10s where drain is taking place against 125 Weapon Power. Multiple weapons, various drain mechanics (beams vs. cannons), and it will actually result in a loss of damage.
That 1153.8 DPV is based on 125 Weapon Power - which means the damage before Weapon Power is 1153.8/2.5 = 461.52 damage. Each point of Weapon Power above 50 is worth 2% (125 gives +150% damage). That 25 Weapon Power from EPtW (whether boosting or fighting drain) could be worth 230.76 damage per shot. The +10% from EPtW was only giving me 115.4 damage per shot.
With the example using Beam Arrays 4 shots per 5 seconds, that means 16 shots in 20 seconds and 8 shots in 10 seconds. Which is what they probably looked at - glanced at - etc, etc, etc. 16 x 115.4 ~= 8 x 230.76 (they should roughly balance out). But drain doesn't play nice and the loss from the lack of buffer (or outright weapon power) will have an edge on the gain from that "final modifier"...
...the difference will be smaller for the Tac in an Escort than the Eng in a Cruiser, mind you. That "final modifier" applies after APA, GDF, APO, CRF, FAW, etc, etc, etc.
I agree with Eradicator and Jaturnley that they could be made even better by making higher levels of the ability give a longer duration / uptime. Ensign slots can still be used for windows of burst/heal, while Lt. Comm. gives you sustain.
Also, as I mentioned in the other thread, consider letting these abilities push past the 125 power cap, so they truly are "Emergency" power. I'd much rather see long cooldown, impactful abilities then always-cycling passives. An escort hitting EPTW should be damn scary. A cruiser hitting EPTS should be damn tough. All of these abilities should feel super rewarding, rather than being just another link in the macro chain.
That's what your missing here. This will not hurt escorts. The EPtW buff more than makes up for the shield tanking loss on an escort. Cruiser and sci ships on the other will be sitting ducks for an Defiant or BoP using: De-cloak-->EPtW-->>full alpha buffs-->>kill defenseless cruiser or sci ship--->>Evasive and get out before someone shoots you ... Re-cloak ... rinse .... repeat.
I say this as an escort captain. Knowing how easy this is going to make killing cruisers and sci ships in my BoP or Defiant is why escort captains like me are out-crying against this. Do you really think there is a ship that without EPtS active can survive Tac Team + FOMM + APA + APO3 + CRF3 + EPtW + Beam Overload 3 when the buff from EPtW is going to last 20 seconds? How are you going to keep your healboat cruiser alive if you cannot cycle EPtS while giving all your other heals to teammates?
Remember that as I sit there hiding in cloak, I can see when you use EPtS to prebuff and just wait the exact right amount of time to make sure my alpha strike is in the "gap" between cycles. On the other hand if you try and use the gap to attack my escort with your cruiser I will just APO and EM away.
I'm guessing that you are actually right and that actual in-game testing will show that the change to EPtW is actually a nerf, not a buff. If so, then they should increase the damage bonus from EPtW.
Please, please keep in mind that you have to balance not just for consistent npc-derived DPS, but the 15k+ dps spikes that players can generate. Going from 25% resists to 0% resists means that you're taking a third more damage for that 10-second gap than you would otherwise, causing a significant problem for healers.
There's no doubt that something titled "Emergency Power to..." should likely have more of that emergency feel to it rather than just being part of that always up when available spacebar spam.
To the person that just has the single EPtS1...well, they already feel that to an extent, no? Not much of an extent, lol, but to an extent. They've got 30s uptime and 15s downtime. They'll definitely feel that more with the 20s uptime and 25s downtime.
What about the person that runs 2x EPtS1? They sport 100% uptime currently. There's nothing "emergency" about that in the least. This change though, won't really change that. 20s up, 10s down, 20s up, 10s down. Depending on what they're running or with whom they're running, that 10s will be covered one way or another. Are they likely to stop using 2x EPtS1? Well, they might consider what some others do...
...those that run EptS1/EPtX1. They'll usually sport 3x DCE(EPt) DOFFs and try for that ~99% uptime (having anywhere between 0-1s to 10s down). Well, that's currently. With the changes, they're looking at 10-25s downtime for the same investment. 2x EPtS1 looks better with its static 10s downtime than using 3 DOFFs to gamble against 25s downtime. Even the current EPtS1/EPtX1 folks are likely to consider switching to 2x EPtS1.
Some may still go that EPtS1/EPtW1 route - knowing that the spike damage boost from the EPtW1 timed during the gap in somebody's EPtS1 could be enough to vape them. That's likely going to be something the more organized groups do though - cause they'll be looking at their own potential 25s gap on EPtS1.
Also, don't forget that Shield Power affects ExS as well. There will be gaps in effectiveness there as well.
So let's see - how does this change made it feel like an emergency power?
Well, the guy that was already using it as such is likely to continue using it as such...or he may even pick up a second one and stop using it as such. The guy using two will continue to use it as a non-emergency power and try to cover the gap. The guy that was using it and something else...depending on the team, may very well end up just going with two EPtS as well.
It's a complete failure if that is the intent. That's above and beyond the Yo-Yo nature of the change as well. They're still sporting the "too high" resistance for 20s, no? Then for 10s...they're possibly vulnerable? Because damage keeps getting higher all the time.
Something that folks need to keep in mind about the "unkillable" ships out there is that it's a package deal. It's not just because they're sporting EPtS or 2x EPtS or even cycling EPtS/EPtX. It's their bonus defense, it's their gear, it's their piloting, it's their other abilities, and it's what the person that's attacking them is doing.
How many folks are flying the "unkillable" ships that folks complain about...and...how many folks fly ships that are simply going to be vaped by these changes?
Honestly, if one were to look at the EPtX abilities...
EPtA
Repair disabled Aux.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Aux Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
EPtE
Repair disabled Eng.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Eng Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
EPtS
Repair disabled Shield.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Shield Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
EPtW
Repair disabled Weapon.
Provide resistance to further disable.
Some buff for 5s or so.
45s CD (both triggered/shared)
No boost to Weapon Power (the Emergency Power is actually being used to do the rest)
...but I wouldn't implement that until something was done about all the other damage/damage resist/damage reduction/healing/etc that's in the game as well. Because it's a package deal.
I definitely believe that's how the EPt abilities should work - as I outlined just above - but I just don't see them working with the way the game currently is. I think people woefully underestimate how much damage has been added to the game in the past year. Yes, there are a bunch of things that have been added to the defensive side as well - all sorts of silly procs (I mean, c'mon - a 25 Weapon Power Mk I Turret will proc the same heal as a 125 Weapon Power Mk XII DBB with BO3, APA, APO, GDF, TT, 5x VR Mk XII Tac consoles, other consoles, etc, etc, etc, etc...SILLY!).
One can look at a target:
"Unkillable" vs. SNB & "Dead"
It's too Yo-Yo. This 20s up and 25s down (or 10s down) is just too Yo-Yo.
Let's do something about the Yo-Yo Mechanics (timing is one thing - this yo-yo stuff? bah)...let's create an environment where we can make the EPt abilities be the emergency abilities they claim to be rather than EPtS being the "needed" ability many claim.
And c'mon, taking away the "needed" ability without changing why some feel it's "needed" - how is that going to make anything better? Remove that "need" - replace it with "want" and then let players evaluate the opportunity cost involved.
Oh, and this has been overlooked in so much of this:
Engineering Ensign BOFFs
5 Abilities, 4 in one Family, 1 in a Family with Tac/Sci
There should be more Eng En BOFF abilities.
The Emergency Power to Aux is pointelss, cause my aux is at max anyways and the boni you get to the sci skills is so low, that you don?t even recognize it.
Emergency Power to Eng is basically the same thing. I am close to the max defense you get with speed anyways and my turnrate is quite good without the extra engine power. So if i want to get out fast i use a Deuterium or EM, which makes the Emergency Power to Engines useless.
The Emergency Power to Weapons is useless also, cause if i run the aux cannons on the Vesta weapon power is pointelss anyways. If i run beams i have weapon power nearly at max most the time. Aux is lower then in exchange, but for the view times you need higher aux i can also pop a battery. And the damage Bonus you get from it is way to low to justify spending one of the few eng slots for it.
Which brings us to Emergency Power to Shields. No difference in pve, cause as i mentioned in a previouse post you can do most pve content anyways by facerolling the keyboard.
Due to the lack of PvP on Tribble a test in that direction wasn?t doable. But from my experience i can say, that if you have a 10 sec resistance gap in pvp, escorts will be able to pop you in that gap with ease. Depending on the oponent it is already quite stressfull to stay alive with max resistances when a escort alpha strikes you. If a good escort hits you at the right time it takes max. 5 sec. to destroy a ship.
So basically, the changes you made are a total fail (again).
The thing i don?t understand is, why you don?t test such things with Fleets that are active in pvp.
PVE isn?t that useful to test if certain things work. The equation is easy, things that work in pvp do work in pve also, but things that work in pve don?t necessarily work in pvp.
I know the pvp comunity is a small part of the playerbase, but at least that is the part which is testing their builds and skills to the limit to keep an edge over each other.
So you really should test such things in matches against the top pvp premades.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
Everyone will need some time to find a new balance but in no way it's a "nerf of cruisers". Mine has a 40-50% base resistance to most energy types. Just buy more armor consoles and you're safe. I guess we'll get specific warp cores allowing everyone to get more power to shields and increase resistance anyway. I'm not sure yet about how this is going to work but no, engineers are about to get a massive buff and the best space traits with the expansion. So, why not?
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
id also like to know if gecko was involved in some way as I know being the bitter person that he is, I wouldn't put it past him to be spiteful towards the playerbase ?
I mean come on guys its been 3 years and the systems team are still messign around with the core game mechanics, I mean really ?
Strikes me that no one knows what they are doing
Making this change is balancing Jack all.
The +StealthSight for 20s every 45s (or less) can be nifty.
Common warp cores give +5 maximum power to one subsystem. This increases the cap from 125 to 130; it doesn't actually give you any power. Warp cores can have modifiers that increase power to one subsystem based on the power level of another subsystem; for example, [W->S] increases your shield power based on your weapon power. However, people in other threads are reporting that the largest increase in power you can get is around +6. Each unit of shield power grants 0.28% shield resistance. So +6 shield power will give you +1.68% shield resistance; this is rather small.
You keep saying this, but I've not seen you justify it once. Don't just say that the +20 power to each subsystem will increase your shield resistance, speed, turn rate, and healing. What are your numbers exactly?
I reckon this will hurt us players that like to play in cruiser tank builds
This is why always whining to "nerf x" is a bad idea.
A ten second gap... honestly, I don't mind. If you have a second tactical team, that should cover that .
But EPTA is now useful, and EPTW gives a much better bonus.
And if you miss the shield power bonus, why not go to the 100 shield 50 weapons power bonus and then hit EPTW when the EPTS expires?
But I do dislike the dumbing down of the kit rewards.
Durrr, hurr, I am engineer... I'll chose tactical kit... herp.... I'm pakled...derp!
It is pointless for pve. In pvp it doesn?t justify to use one of the few eng slots for it. Imo it basically just coutners the new Romulan trait that increses stealth. Not to mention that you can use it also to increase your own stealth rating to counter the sight.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
<queue eerie music>
So for the cloak alpha crew, they're going to experience the GDF nerf. To appease them, Cryptic boosts EPtW for spike and creates 10s gaps in EPtS.
<queue snoring>
I mind the nerf and i guess i am not the only one.
In which way is EPt Aux now usefull? Despite the Energy bonus which you already got before, the other boni are pointless... Maybe the stealth in some cases, but anything else then a sci ship has so less stealth sight anyways that it won?t matter much.
And EPTW just gives to less dmg bonus also. If you are going in offense mode your weapons run at max power anyways. And if you need to tank you can?t afford to pop Anything else then an Emergency Power to Shields for higher resistences.
In addidion not everyone has the slot to run a second tac team. There are plenty of ships which only have 2 tac slots, not to mention that they put the other teams on global cd, or the tac team is on global cd, cause of one of the other teams.
Changing the Energy Settign won`t give you the bonus resistence you get from Emergency Power to Shields itself, despite from the bonus you get from the higher shield energy lvl.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
In most other MMOs, tanks don't have "permanent survivability skills" with 100% uptime. Why should STO be different in this regard?
I can asure you, they are not on the right track. To get there the whole skillsystem would need an overhaul. And several consoles and TRIBBLE should get kicked out of the game. Best thing would be if there would be a different skillset and Equipment for PVE and PvP like in other MMOs.
Lets Face it, in pve it won?t make a difference, the "only" thing that it will have an effect on, is pvp. But ok, guess we will just get more pvp matches then where you just idle until it is done, to get the dil. Which is sad, cause before all the nice changes and toys from the Zen-Store or Lockboxes, pvp was so much more fun once...
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys
The person looking for Stealthers is more likely to use it than the person Stealthing.
EPtA1 will give +50 StealthSight.
That's +100 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +50 Perception.
That's +1 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
EPtA2 will give +75 StealthSight.
That's +150 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +75 Perception.
That's +1.5 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
EPtA3 will give +100 StealthSight.
That's +200 Stealth Detection Rating.
That's +100 Perception.
That's +2 km detection range.
For 20s out of every 45s (or sooner).
Base Stealth w/0 Aux is 4925. 50 Aux puts it at 4975. That's your standard Stealth - no points in Stealth skill and no +Stealth gear.
My unfinished Snooper can see that guy at 7km.
W/ EPtA1, I can see him at 8km for 20s with the changes (instead of 5s).
W/ EPtA1 & Scan 3, I can see him ~16km for 20s (again, 1km coming from the EPtA1).
Say it was somebody that put some effort into Stealthing.
4925 (Base)
5050 (125 Aux)
5099.5 (9 in Stealth)
5199.5 (Subterfuge BOFF)
5229.5 (Reman Mk XII Deflector - even though it's bugged)
5277.35 (3x UR Stealth Modules)
Not going to give them EPtA - figure they'll EPtW, eh?
W/ EPtA1 & Scan 3, I'll still see them outside weapon range for 20s. That's on my unfinished Snooper. W/o the EPtA - I wouldn't see them until they were inside weapon range.
Even without the Scan 3, I'll still see them at 2 km with the EPtA1. They're trying to sneak in to drop some mines or get in close for a TBR shove? Yeah, even the guy that's put all that effort in will be seen at 2 km. The guy that didn't...8 km.
What does the EPtA1 provide as well?
+25 Aux Power
(yes, used to be for 30s) which allows me to run 125/75 for 20s instead of 125/100.
+10 [Gra], [PrtG], and [SubD]
some might say that's less than what you'd get from a VR Mk II console for each (would require 3 consoles, mind you)
some might say that's equivalent to 2x Mk VI deflector mods (some might even say equivalent to a Mk XIV deflector mod)
some might say it's not even worth 7,000 skill points
some might say that's worth 21,000 skill points
yeah, it's a matter of perspective
That's a prime example of a MMO that had pisspoor design.
Why would you need any other teams for PVE? Run the two tactical ones, its great for tanking.
And I can run EPTW on a cruiser while tanking a tactical cube on an elite STF. But then again I do got other shield heal/resistance skills then EPTS.
Not sure where you get the most effective defense mechanism from, I find it somewhere near the bottom of the shields pile...
Anyways, this is another nerf, and frankly I am just getting a little more the p.....d off at Nerf Trek Oblivion which is what this game has become. So many whingers complaining something OP this needs a nerf, that needs a nerf. The ONLY thing that needs a nerf is whingers complaining that something needs a nerf...
STOP THE NERF!!!!
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
AS soon as ppl start using it, ppl who are using stealth to sneak up on you will put effort in stealth. And again for pve it is pointless anyways.
Nope, just makes it easier to balance for pvp when ppl figure out some combinations that get op. That way you don?t have to take care of the pvp content when you want to balance pve and the other way round.
But maybe we have a different sight on pvp. Fair pvp equipmentwise, would mean everyone has equal equipment. In pve it doesn?t matter if someone has equipment that is way better then yours, in pvp it does.
I dunno how it is with you, but where is the challenge if you beat someone, cause you have way better equipment? That just means you spend more time in grinding/money, not that you are better. It is kinda like using cheats that are allowed.
U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys