The gap is 5 seconds out of 45, for 11% - I'm not seeing where you're coming up with a 33% gap in coverage.
T=0 - Use first copy of EPtS 1
T=15 - Global Emergency Power cooldown finishes
T=20 - EPtS buff falls off
T=20.01 - Use second copy of EPtS 1
T=30 - Global Emergency Power cooldown finishes again
T=40 - EPtS buff falls off
T=45 - First copy of EPtS finshes recharging
T=45.1 - Go to T=0
You can also spread the downtime into two 2.5 second chunks on either side of the second EPtS rotation. It's really very marginal - just requires slightly more micromanagement/player finesse to keep up at the right times. We didn't want to increase the duration of EPtW's damage bonus up to 30 seconds, and we definitely wanted all of the Emergency Power buffs to last the same duration. 20 seconds is just the sweet spot of long enough duration to be noticeable, but short enough not to quite be 100% uptime.
You've scrambled those of us who utilize a rotation of EptW and EptS.
T=0-First use of EptW1
T=15- Global cooldown finishes
T=15.1- First use of EptS3
T=20-EptW1 falls off.
T=30-Global Cooldown finishes
T=30.1-Second EptW1 activates
T=40-EptS3 falls off
T=45- Initial and Global cooldown completes, first EptW1 kicks in again
T=50- EptS3 falls off.
And so on.
I mean I know your goal is to prevent us from running 100% uptime on two systems simultaneously, I just don't think it's a particularly good goal. But there are a lot of changes that are going to be in here from warp cores to new traits, so I guess we'll be looking for a new synergy. It's taken a while for me to get halfway decent at this game, so changing something that's a cornerstone of my offense and defense is a little hard to deal with.
And I don't like sweet spots. I prefer a beast. Your twenty second sweet spot is a five second sweet spot for my opponents where my shields are less strong.
I don't know man, I don't know.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
They messed up chat on tribble, I can no longer use it, whatever you guys did, un-do it because whats the point of testing if we cannot talk with our peers about the changes while testing? there is no input to type into in the chat box.
Have you ever been involved in a 25-30 minute match because no one wants to die? This is boring as hell.
Those matches are due to cross-healing and top teams going head to head.
I've been in many more arena matches vs. PUG players who didn't have EPTS or TT or Shield Distribution only to watch them pop in mere seconds as if they didn't have any shields on at all.
Now there is a 33% gap in the most basic of all shield resistances.
Yeah, thanks. Fail on my part, edited now for accuracy.
Except it's still not accurate.
T=0 Use CopyA of EPTS 1
T=15 Global Emergency Power CD finishes, allowing a DIFFERENT Emergency Power (W, A or E) to be used. T=20 EPTS Resistance buff falls off
T=30 EPTS CD finishes
T=30.1 Activate CopyB EPTS1
They messed up chat on tribble, I can no longer use it, whatever you guys did, un-do it because whats the point of testing if we cannot talk with our peers about the changes while testing? there is no input to type into in the chat box.
Another note on chat. I usually run with my chat window minimized. Would you guys please be so kind as to make it so the chat window doesn't pop up every time a dialogue window pops up, it's annoying.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Those matches are due to cross-healing and top teams going head to head.
I've been in many more arena matches vs. PUG players who didn't have EPTS or TT or Shield Distribution only to watch them pop in mere seconds as if they didn't have any shields on at all.
Now there is a 33% gap in the most basic of all shield resistances.
You don't balance things around the worst players, you balance around the best, who can make the most out of abilities. Cross healing is the mark of a good players. A 5v5 match isn't 5 1v1's.
You don't balance things around the worst players, you balance around the best, who can make the most out of abilities. Cross healing is the mark of a good players. A 5v5 match isn't 5 1v1's.
I'm no stranger to organized 5v5 matches.
That's the preferred type of PvP for Sad Pandas after all.
Keep in mind it appears arbiterhawk balanced these around what he thought was a 5s gap that you could close to 2.5s with micromanagement.
Real talk: Keep EPtS as it is on Holodeck. Make EPtW's weapon damage buff a flat 10%/15%/20% 30 seconds for beams only so they can have an ACTUAL pressure damage phase. EPtE should give a minor speed and moderate turning boost based on an inverse curve from the ship's dry turning speed with a cap, meaning slower moving and slower turning ships (cruisers) get a better boost from it. EPtA? I have no clue since pretty much all Science powers need a full rework in regards to how skill points and resists interact.
Wow, looking on paper, did I just make cruisers seem useful? Especially the Galaxy and Negh'var?
T=0 Use CopyA of EPTS 1
T=15 Global Emergency Power CD finishes, allowing a DIFFERENT Emergency Power (W, A or E) to be used. T=20 EPTS Resistance buff falls off
T=30 EPTS CD finishes
T=30.1 Activate CopyB EPTS1
10s GAP
That's correct.
Every ten second gap is baited breath, your Bridge crew sweating across their brow, wondering if that one lucky shot will get through.
Frankly 100% uptime makes sense for a cruiser. That should be part of the benefit of flying the ship, with the largest most powerful warp cores.
And if we're all being perfectly honest, this is a big buff for escorts that get longer uptime on their weapons buff, versus a debuff for cruisers that get a shorter defense buff in turn.
I guess it just needs more testing, but I can't see this being a positive adjustment just yet.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
T=0 Use CopyA of EPTS 1
T=15 Global Emergency Power CD finishes, allowing a DIFFERENT Emergency Power (W, A or E) to be used. T=20 EPTS Resistance buff falls off
T=30 EPTS CD finishes
T=30.1 Activate CopyB EPTS1
10s GAP
Happy now? :P
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Hold on. So the buff to the actual shield power (125) is still set at 30?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You don't balance things around the worst players, you balance around the best, who can make the most out of abilities. Cross healing is the mark of a good players. A 5v5 match isn't 5 1v1's.
You don't balance things around either group: you balance around the majority of players. To do otherwise in almost anything would be ineffective business policy.
And, unfortunately, the majority of STO players are not experienced PvPers.
I do, however, agree that cross-healing is a necessary skill - not just because of the boost it provides to a PvP team, but simply because the player is part of that team.
As for the EPtS nerf, I think it hurts the game's already delicate dynamics more than it helps them.
The game looks so much better than it does on holodeck, its hard to leave Tribble. Please give us some Romulans to test though, im getting anxious :P
Was going to comment on something else first, but I saw this. It's so damn true. I'm not one that typically gives a rat's tushie about such things...but dayum, the game is freaking gorgeous on Tribble compared to Holodeck.
I know that some of it was mentioned during the recent interview - where it was said that the system requirements weren't going to be increased for the game (I'll believe that when I see a SB24 on Tribble with oodles of pets and other spam - heh)...but the game is definitely better looking all around on Tribble. Awesome job there.
I'll chime in on that Tribble is a gorgeous lady right now. That LCARS is top notch. Makes me want a touch screen. On that subject will Gateway be getting a similar facelift?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Even if adjudicatorhawk's timings were not correct, it does make me wonder what the effect of having 3 purple damage control engineers is. Will this be the new must-have doff for everyone?
Even if adjudicatorhawk's timings were not correct, it does make me wonder what the effect of having 3 purple damage control engineers is. Will this be the new must-have doff for everyone?
1 copy of any EPTX ability will still only be able to fire off every 30s, leaving a 10s gap in "special bonuses", even with 3x DMG control engineers.
Unless you mean to chain 2 different EPTXs?
It's certainly a much more attractive route now, yes.
Can you add a tractor break to Emergency Power to Engines (or Auxilary to Dampeners[sp?])? I think Engineering powers really need a tractor break.
Especially with the change. I mean I could be caught in a tractor beam and just absorb the damage, but if I get caught during "the Gap" then I might get killed outright.
I always thought that Rotate Shield Frequency should provide a tractor beam break. That's who it was used in the show. Tractor beam. Rotate Shield Harmonics. Tractor break, escape.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Hold on. So the buff to the actual shield power (125) is still set at 30?
The answer. No.
The entire power only lasts 20 seconds.
In Emergency power to shields there are three components. Shield heal/slash restore disabled shields. Shield Power increase. And Additional shield resistance. That statement said that the resistance buff was reduced to 20 seconds, but the fact is the entire power is reduced to 20 seconds. The resistance buff goes away after it expires as does the additional shield power.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
its not just the 18%/24%/30%, or what ever it is anymore, that you lose for 10 seconds, its all the res you get from your power level droping too.
most ships seem to operate with about 40% res to 65% res, in some cases caping out at 76% with elite resA/B shields and useing EPtS3, or a lower grade of of EPtS and a TSS. this is a problem frankly, the ease of shield res buffing is completely out of hand, the elite shields are the worst item ever introduced into the game. a general nerf is needed, not a gaping hole of death. theres enough of a yoyo problem already.
for 10 seconds you will be lucky to have between 15% res, and 30% res for those 10 seconds. every good escort player will simply kill everything in that extreamly long 10 second window with basically 0 trouble. the entire duration of CRF is 10 seconds afterall, and they wont even need all 10 seconds.
yes i have a way of knowing my exact shield res, and anyone else's exact shield res.
YOU CANT PUT A HUGE HOLE IN SHIELD RES FOR AN ENTIRE 10 SECONDS.
its a branding problem. instead drop the 'emergency' from 'emergence power to'. make it just 'power to weapons' or 'power to shields'. its excess power your ship generates, waiting for you to distribute as you see fit, on top of the basic power generation. ships are powered by both the M/AM warp core and the fusion reactors that are hooked directly to the impulse engines. the 'power to' skills could be power from those impulse generators. every ship has at least 2 impulse engines, so you can double up 2 different types of 'power to' abilities. warp core potential and efficiency just effect the warp core generated 200 base power, so it all works out perfectly for a fluff explanation of whats happening.
so, the current res buff from EPtS, those should proboly be halved. let all the bonuses run for all 30 seconds, let thier be 0 down time, and keep those new changes as is. again for all 30 seconds. for all intents and purposes, these are passive skills you have to refresh, and thats ok.
here's another thought, sci ships have innate subsytem targeting, maybe give cruisers innate emergency power too skills. those can actual be emergency power, say a +20 boost to 1 of the 4 subsystems, with a 2 minute cooldown. all completely separate from the now called 'power to' abilities. could think up something for escorts to maybe, but frankly they dont need or deserve some inate extra like this. they are already the bast chassis of ship by far. if you gave the patrol escort the assault cruisers station setup, it would be a hugely better assault cruiser then the current assault cruiser.
its not just the 18%/24%/30%, or what ever it is anymore, that you lose for 10 seconds, its all the res you get from your power level droping too.
most ships seem to operate with about 40% res to 65% res, in some cases caping out at 76% with elite resA/B shields and useing EPtS3, or a lower grade of of EPtS and a TSS. this is a problem frankly, the ease of shield res buffing is completely out of hand, the elite shields are the worst item ever introduced into the game. a general nerf is needed, not a gaping hole of death. theres enough of a yoyo problem already.
for 10 seconds you will be lucky to have between 15% res, and 30% res for those 10 seconds. every good escort player will simply kill everything in that extreamly long 10 second window with basically 0 trouble. the entire duration of CRF is 10 seconds afterall, and they wont even need those 10 seconds.
yes i have a way of knowing my exact shield res, and anyone else's exact shield res.
YOU CANT PUT A HUGE HOLE IN SHIELD RES FOR AN ENTIRE 10 SECONDS.
its a branding problem. instead drop the 'emergency' from 'emergence power to'. make it just 'power to weapons' or 'power to shields'. its excess power your ship generates, waiting for you to distribute as you see fit, on top of the basic power generation. ships are powered by both the M/AM warp core and the fusion reactors that are hooked directly to the impulse engines. the 'power to' skills could be power from those impulse generators. every ship has at least 2 impulse engines, so you can double up 2 different types of 'power to' abilities. warp core potential and efficiency just effect the warp core generated 200 base power, so it all works out perfectly for a fluff explanation of whats happening.
so, the current res buff from EPtS, those should proboly be halved. let all the bonuses run for all 30 seconds, let thier be 0 down time, and keep those new changes as is. again for all 30 seconds. for all intents and purposes, these are passive skills you have to refresh, and thats ok.
here's another thought, sci ships have innate subsytem targeting, maybe give cruisers innate emergency power too skills. those can actual be emergency power, say a +20 boost to 1 of the 4 subsystems, with a 2 minute cooldown. all completely separate from the now called 'power to' abilities. could think up something for escorts to maybe, but frankly they dont need or deserve some inate extra like this. they are already the bast chassis of ship by far. if you gave the patrol escort the assault cruisers station setup, it would be a hugely better assault cruiser then the current assault cruiser.
Good ideas here, we would call it Reserve Power to the Shields.
That is a good point. Cruisers have no innate ability. Yet they are the largest ships and should have the most facilities.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You don't balance things around either group: you balance around the majority of players. To do otherwise in almost anything would be ineffective business policy.
No, that's a terrible idea. The majority of players in any given MMO are not going to be representative of the highly skilled players of the game. If you cater to the lowest common denominator in balance, you'll end up with the actual good players being overpowered and unkillable.
The EPtS is a major problem. We just eliminate one hits from STFs by toning down borg torps, and now we are dropping all resistances and bringing back the one hits? Why are you guys even bothering?
As someone with a ton of PvE tac escort experience this is going to be bad, but the boost to damage is pretty Op for escorts, especially JHEC... why fly anything else now?
My high DPS eng cruiser is going to be in serious trouble, without EPtS going its going to be just as weak during those 10s down as an escort, and 10s with full AoE threat control with no EPtS up might as well be auto-abandon ship.
Time for a new brainstorm, right idea to equalize, done the wrong way.. almost like you guys never even play the game.
k, im glad the EPtX skills are getting rebalance attention, but you didn't do it right.
you cant just give the shield res bonus 10 seconds of down time like that, all these bonuses need to last 30 seconds, so full up time with 2 copies, or don't bother, seriously. lowering the benefit is one thing, putting holes in their effects, thats just terrible.
I fully agree with this. Cryptic is being "cryptic" again.
Edit: just read the whole thread and I agree with all of Drunk's posts.
1 copy of any EPTX ability will still only be able to fire off every 30s, leaving a 10s gap in "special bonuses", even with 3x DMG control engineers.
Unless you mean to chain 2 different EPTXs?
It's certainly a much more attractive route now, yes.
If I am understanding this correctly, the shared cooldown between multiple uses of EPtS is 30 seconds and not affected by damage control engineers, so even with the doffs and two copies of EPtS, it is not possible to match the 20-second duration. Is this correct?
Comments
You've scrambled those of us who utilize a rotation of EptW and EptS.
T=0-First use of EptW1
T=15- Global cooldown finishes
T=15.1- First use of EptS3
T=20-EptW1 falls off.
T=30-Global Cooldown finishes
T=30.1-Second EptW1 activates
T=40-EptS3 falls off
T=45- Initial and Global cooldown completes, first EptW1 kicks in again
T=50- EptS3 falls off.
And so on.
I mean I know your goal is to prevent us from running 100% uptime on two systems simultaneously, I just don't think it's a particularly good goal. But there are a lot of changes that are going to be in here from warp cores to new traits, so I guess we'll be looking for a new synergy. It's taken a while for me to get halfway decent at this game, so changing something that's a cornerstone of my offense and defense is a little hard to deal with.
And I don't like sweet spots. I prefer a beast. Your twenty second sweet spot is a five second sweet spot for my opponents where my shields are less strong.
I don't know man, I don't know.
Those matches are due to cross-healing and top teams going head to head.
I've been in many more arena matches vs. PUG players who didn't have EPTS or TT or Shield Distribution only to watch them pop in mere seconds as if they didn't have any shields on at all.
Now there is a 33% gap in the most basic of all shield resistances.
Except it's still not accurate.
T=0 Use CopyA of EPTS 1
T=15 Global Emergency Power CD finishes, allowing a DIFFERENT Emergency Power (W, A or E) to be used.
T=20 EPTS Resistance buff falls off
T=30 EPTS CD finishes
T=30.1 Activate CopyB EPTS1
10s GAP
Another note on chat. I usually run with my chat window minimized. Would you guys please be so kind as to make it so the chat window doesn't pop up every time a dialogue window pops up, it's annoying.
You don't balance things around the worst players, you balance around the best, who can make the most out of abilities. Cross healing is the mark of a good players. A 5v5 match isn't 5 1v1's.
I'm no stranger to organized 5v5 matches.
That's the preferred type of PvP for Sad Pandas after all.
Keep in mind it appears arbiterhawk balanced these around what he thought was a 5s gap that you could close to 2.5s with micromanagement.
It is in fact a 10s gap that you cannot close.
Wow, looking on paper, did I just make cruisers seem useful? Especially the Galaxy and Negh'var?
That's correct.
Every ten second gap is baited breath, your Bridge crew sweating across their brow, wondering if that one lucky shot will get through.
Frankly 100% uptime makes sense for a cruiser. That should be part of the benefit of flying the ship, with the largest most powerful warp cores.
And if we're all being perfectly honest, this is a big buff for escorts that get longer uptime on their weapons buff, versus a debuff for cruisers that get a shorter defense buff in turn.
I guess it just needs more testing, but I can't see this being a positive adjustment just yet.
Happy now? :P
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
You fixed it that quick?
Hold on. So the buff to the actual shield power (125) is still set at 30?
You don't balance things around either group: you balance around the majority of players. To do otherwise in almost anything would be ineffective business policy.
And, unfortunately, the majority of STO players are not experienced PvPers.
I do, however, agree that cross-healing is a necessary skill - not just because of the boost it provides to a PvP team, but simply because the player is part of that team.
As for the EPtS nerf, I think it hurts the game's already delicate dynamics more than it helps them.
Was going to comment on something else first, but I saw this. It's so damn true. I'm not one that typically gives a rat's tushie about such things...but dayum, the game is freaking gorgeous on Tribble compared to Holodeck.
I know that some of it was mentioned during the recent interview - where it was said that the system requirements weren't going to be increased for the game (I'll believe that when I see a SB24 on Tribble with oodles of pets and other spam - heh)...but the game is definitely better looking all around on Tribble. Awesome job there.
/cough
edit: I've reposted part of this in the following thread ( http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=615701 ) since Bran said that's where we should leave feedback.
Almost (although my intent wasn't shame).
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the 10s gap.
I think the intent behind these changes are good, please don't mistake my criticisms of the EPTS change as an overall negative vibe.
This is definitely a step in the right direction for power parity.
However, in PvP there is still no choice but to run EPTSx2 gap or no gap. on ships that have minimal eng stations.
Cruisers on the other hand have a real reason to want to run 2x 2 Copies of EPTX and that's a good thing.
That being said, a 10s gap is still quite large for what is a baseline mitigation ability.
Dropping 18%/24%/30% out of your resistance for a full 10s is brutal.
If you want to do some PvP focused testing at some point, please let me know.
1 copy of any EPTX ability will still only be able to fire off every 30s, leaving a 10s gap in "special bonuses", even with 3x DMG control engineers.
Unless you mean to chain 2 different EPTXs?
It's certainly a much more attractive route now, yes.
Especially with the change. I mean I could be caught in a tractor beam and just absorb the damage, but if I get caught during "the Gap" then I might get killed outright.
I always thought that Rotate Shield Frequency should provide a tractor beam break. That's who it was used in the show. Tractor beam. Rotate Shield Harmonics. Tractor break, escape.
The answer. No.
The entire power only lasts 20 seconds.
In Emergency power to shields there are three components. Shield heal/slash restore disabled shields. Shield Power increase. And Additional shield resistance. That statement said that the resistance buff was reduced to 20 seconds, but the fact is the entire power is reduced to 20 seconds. The resistance buff goes away after it expires as does the additional shield power.
most ships seem to operate with about 40% res to 65% res, in some cases caping out at 76% with elite resA/B shields and useing EPtS3, or a lower grade of of EPtS and a TSS. this is a problem frankly, the ease of shield res buffing is completely out of hand, the elite shields are the worst item ever introduced into the game. a general nerf is needed, not a gaping hole of death. theres enough of a yoyo problem already.
for 10 seconds you will be lucky to have between 15% res, and 30% res for those 10 seconds. every good escort player will simply kill everything in that extreamly long 10 second window with basically 0 trouble. the entire duration of CRF is 10 seconds afterall, and they wont even need all 10 seconds.
yes i have a way of knowing my exact shield res, and anyone else's exact shield res.
YOU CANT PUT A HUGE HOLE IN SHIELD RES FOR AN ENTIRE 10 SECONDS.
its a branding problem. instead drop the 'emergency' from 'emergence power to'. make it just 'power to weapons' or 'power to shields'. its excess power your ship generates, waiting for you to distribute as you see fit, on top of the basic power generation. ships are powered by both the M/AM warp core and the fusion reactors that are hooked directly to the impulse engines. the 'power to' skills could be power from those impulse generators. every ship has at least 2 impulse engines, so you can double up 2 different types of 'power to' abilities. warp core potential and efficiency just effect the warp core generated 200 base power, so it all works out perfectly for a fluff explanation of whats happening.
so, the current res buff from EPtS, those should proboly be halved. let all the bonuses run for all 30 seconds, let thier be 0 down time, and keep those new changes as is. again for all 30 seconds. for all intents and purposes, these are passive skills you have to refresh, and thats ok.
here's another thought, sci ships have innate subsytem targeting, maybe give cruisers innate emergency power too skills. those can actual be emergency power, say a +20 boost to 1 of the 4 subsystems, with a 2 minute cooldown. all completely separate from the now called 'power to' abilities. could think up something for escorts to maybe, but frankly they dont need or deserve some inate extra like this. they are already the bast chassis of ship by far. if you gave the patrol escort the assault cruisers station setup, it would be a hugely better assault cruiser then the current assault cruiser.
Good ideas here, we would call it Reserve Power to the Shields.
That is a good point. Cruisers have no innate ability. Yet they are the largest ships and should have the most facilities.
No, that's a terrible idea. The majority of players in any given MMO are not going to be representative of the highly skilled players of the game. If you cater to the lowest common denominator in balance, you'll end up with the actual good players being overpowered and unkillable.
As someone with a ton of PvE tac escort experience this is going to be bad, but the boost to damage is pretty Op for escorts, especially JHEC... why fly anything else now?
My high DPS eng cruiser is going to be in serious trouble, without EPtS going its going to be just as weak during those 10s down as an escort, and 10s with full AoE threat control with no EPtS up might as well be auto-abandon ship.
Time for a new brainstorm, right idea to equalize, done the wrong way.. almost like you guys never even play the game.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
I fully agree with this. Cryptic is being "cryptic" again.
Edit: just read the whole thread and I agree with all of Drunk's posts.
If I am understanding this correctly, the shared cooldown between multiple uses of EPtS is 30 seconds and not affected by damage control engineers, so even with the doffs and two copies of EPtS, it is not possible to match the 20-second duration. Is this correct?