one shotted hardly. it took multiple direct hits that bypassed it shields do to the dominoin infiltrating starfleet and knowing there frequencies the captain of the oddyssey even ordered the shield frequency to be changed and a crewman said they went through the whole spectrum after that he ordered power to be diverted to the weapons after this order the jem'hadar bug ship did a komikazy run to the neck of the ship where the 200+ torpedoes are stored
lets also not forget later on in the series they showed galaxies taking down galors and keldans
yes the Oddy mainly died for plot the way most of the Early Gals did.
pretty much they way every ship that is not named "enterprise" tends to go out lol to show just how bad the situation is so that way the main cast can look even better when they get out of the same situation
vex, do you have much trouble with EPtW colliding with EPtS? I ask because you have two of each which generally means cycling them as fast as they will go, and it would seem like they would collide often. The build depends on EPtW so... does it make trouble for you? and why have 2 of the EPtS, it seems that you will only be able to use 1 of them unless you are fleeing
vex, do you have much trouble with EPtW colliding with EPtS? I ask because you have two of each which generally means cycling them as fast as they will go, and it would seem like they would collide often. The build depends on EPtW so... does it make trouble for you? and why have 2 of the EPtS, it seems that you will only be able to use 1 of them unless you are fleeing
Without DCE you need two copies for constant cycling. Since each one puts it's other copy on a 30 second CD and any other EPtX on a 15 second cd and each one has a 30 second duration, you use it for 100% uptime of that ability. Basically his cycle would be EPtW3, EPtS1, EPtW3, EPtS1, EPtW3... and so on and so forth. It's the standard cycling for most cruiser class ships.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I wouldn't agree with the fact that the galaxy class is the worst ship in the game. I think it has one of the lower damage potentials for a tier 5 starship (next to the intrepid), but the worst ship in the game, I disagree.
Since you're getting off topic about the Galaxy Class, this actually makes sense from the stand point of canon. I seem to remember that the Odyssey was one shotted by a bug in the DS9 episode The Jem'Hedar. IMO, this is an example of the performance of the ship and it is reflected in this game accurately.
Please not this one again...
That argument was brought up a hundred times already and you know what?
No other ship would have survived that, its a miracle the Odyssey kept fighting that long. End of discussion IMO.
Compared to the T5 Intrepid, the Galaxy -R is a slow stationary practice with no means of offensive. The T5 Intrepid has access to Cmdr and Lt.Cmdr Science BOFF powers, this makes it unequally more versatile.
It (the Galaxy -R) combines everything that is boring about cruisers in STO and has the most passive BOFF layout in the whole game.
The Galaxy -R IS the worst ship, no matter how you turn it.
Without DCE you need two copies for constant cycling. Since each one puts it's other copy on a 30 second CD and any other EPtX on a 15 second cd and each one has a 30 second duration, you use it for 100% uptime of that ability. Basically his cycle would be EPtW3, EPtS1, EPtW3, EPtS1, EPtW3... and so on and so forth. It's the standard cycling for most cruiser class ships.
I personally like the 2x AtB version better, ok it's more expensive because of the DOFFs but it uses the same amount of BOFF powers (althrough only the level 1 version) but you get a much better offensive potential, virtually doubling you tac/science powers and High level Engineering powers.
Because of this, i have been running with 3 Blue technican DOFFs for a long time and had a much higher damage potential than with 2xEptW + 2xEptS.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
one shotted hardly. it took multiple direct hits that bypassed it shields do to the dominoin infiltrating starfleet and knowing there frequencies the captain of the oddyssey even ordered the shield frequency to be changed and a crewman said they went through the whole spectrum after that he ordered power to be diverted to the weapons after this order the jem'hadar bug ship did a komikazy run to the neck of the ship where the 200+ torpedoes are stored
lets also not forget later on in the series they showed galaxies taking down galors and keldans
err no.
The Shield penetration was a unique property of the dominions phased polaron weaponry. Its the same tech that pwned the defiant in "the search" and mauled the mixed romulan cardassian fleet in "the die is cast".
That is why weyoun was surprised to see DS9's shields resist the effect in "call to arms!"
The games take on ships is not accurate at all. In the TV series the Cardassian Galor Class Warship is weak. Remember the episode "The Wounded"? The Enterprise encounters a Cardassian Galor Class ship which opens fire on them without reason. The Enterprise sits there for a few seconds trying to communicate and when that doesn't happen she opens fire with her forward phaser array and basically cripples the Cardassian ships forward shields forcing them to talk. Then later on in the episode Picard gives the Cardassians the prefix codes for the Nebula Class U.S.S. Phoenix. So yet another Galor Class engages the Phoenix. The Cardassian ship manages to disable the Phoenix's shields with the prefix codes, but is still destroyed. Basically, what I'm saying is the Galor Class on T.V. was a junk ship compared to basically any front line Federation vessel. Yet in STO the Galor is awesome because Cryptic wanted to stick it in a lockbox.
The Galaxy Class was shown to be a fairly offensive vessel on multiple occasions. One of he most memorable was actually against the Borg. During their first encounter, again using it's forward phaser arrays, the Enterprise blew several holes in a borg cube. Had they continued firing they very likely could have destroyed the Cube.
The limitations of being a game and the fact that Star Trek episode writers would often flip-flop, or at least stretch, canon makes any comparison weak. It's all pretty much fiction, and fluid fiction at that.
What is relevant to this thread is a captain, best results from tactical of course, can create a Galaxy Class starship that can be fun and competitive within reason. Yes, using others ships will net you better statistic results. If statistics are the primary concern, look elsewhere. If commanding a ship that inspires your love for Star Trek happens to be the Galaxy Class then Vex's build can be the foundation upon which a player can experiment with and build upon.
ACT parser is not accurate yet people still keep on using it cause it usually gives u a higher dps result then u truly have
stoic and combatlogparser are the only ones that are accurate
and on those parser not even uber bug ship with mk xii purples accross the board wont get a 10k dps..simply because it doesnt do that unless its alpha striking
nice build though ..im sure its very effective..just really really no where near 10k ..
pass ur log through the parsers are mentioned and ulll see ur dps and exactly what dmg did any of ur weps/pets did .
ACT parser is not accurate yet people still keep on using it cause it usually gives u a higher dps result then u truly have
stoic and combatlogparser are the only ones that are accurate
and on those parser not even uber bug ship with mk xii purples accross the board wont get a 10k dps..simply because it doesnt do that unless its alpha striking
nice build though ..im sure its very effective..just really really no where near 10k ..
pass ur log through the parsers are mentioned and ulll see ur dps and exactly what dmg did any of ur weps/pets did .
stoic is outdated. and combatlogparser... well it is outdated too, tho it gives accurate dmg. and on my build the highest difference I have seen is 2k dps compared to act. and I have seen logs from my vesta at 9k up there, plus I know ppl who got 17k dps in it, so no, act is accurate enough for this conversation
Lets leave the parse numbers alone for now. I already addressed that yes the parsers are all probably at least partially flawed. I use them simply as a bench mark for myself to see where Im at and where I was. If the numbers are bigger than Ive probably done something right.
Its hard to argue with the video evidence of what these ships can do when build right.
At some point this week / weekend I plan to do a run with my fleet with all of us using common mk x gear like we did before in escorts / sci ships. I have zero doubt in my mind that we will beat the stf with the optional with plenty of time to spare.
I'm not uber by any streatch of the imagination and I dont prise/log dps and I still consider myself a newb. but some time ago playing around with setups I ran EPTW and BFAW just with some standard gear and stuff melted. became damn obvious that beams can do good DPS if you can keep power levels well up you can get good DPS for sure from simiar setups i'm not suprised you can get great DPS running similar setups with top gear & optimized weapon procs/reputation gear. Been meaning to experiment with AUX to bat/power drain and so on. And I got Red matter cap now...
only real issue is that Fire at will spreads the DPS, makes it hard to focus dps on a single target unlike cannon skills rapid fire single target or scatter which hits an arc.
all being equal still cruisers can do good dps. Pisses me off when kids in STF tell cruiser pilots to leave saying they have no place in Elite STF missions.
you should invite me to STF, not to prove that you can do it. just so I can earn some fast Dilith! I think your better solo than a lot of PUGs I end up in...
You didn't post this on your OP , but your stoacademy profile has you as a Tac .
Most Tac's don't fly cruisers .
Engineers do , and they don't have an innate attack pattern to boost their damage , thus your claim that "in fact this sort of damage is achievable with beams" does not address the concern of many who do fly cruisers , but not as Tac's .
That's all I can say , as my knowledge of parsers is minimal , so I'm not sure what else could have been done to boost your damage .
But I will say this , I don't think in PVP (against faster moving foes) you would have gotten that high of a hit score .
You didn't post this on your OP , but your stoacademy profile has you as a Tac .
Most Tac's don't fly cruisers .
Engineers do , and they don't have an innate attack pattern to boost their damage , thus your claim that "in fact this sort of damage is achievable with beams" does not address the concern of many who do fly cruisers , but not as Tac's .
That's all I can say , as my knowledge of parsers is minimal , so I'm not sure what else could have been done to boost your damage .
But I will say this , I don't think in PVP (against faster moving foes) you would have gotten that high of a hit score .
You didn't post this on your OP , but your stoacademy profile has you as a Tac .
Most Tac's don't fly cruisers .
Engineers do , and they don't have an innate attack pattern to boost their damage , thus your claim that "in fact this sort of damage is achievable with beams" does not address the concern of many who do fly cruisers , but not as Tac's .
That's all I can say , as my knowledge of parsers is minimal , so I'm not sure what else could have been done to boost your damage .
But I will say this , I don't think in PVP (against faster moving foes) you would have gotten that high of a hit score .
I have three "main" characters, an Eng, a Tac and a Sci. All of them use beams and all of them break 7k DPS easily. My Tac does 11k in his Regent or Fleet Excelsior. My Eng does 8k in his Fleet Excelisor, and my Sci does 8k in her Vesta.
I am in Vex's fleet and we constantly push ourselves to see who can do the most damage with our various builds, or who can be the most tanky, or who has the best uniform configuration. It's a friendly competition.
So yes, "this sort of damage is obtainable by ANYONE using beams" 7k+. Yes. Doable.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
I'd like to ask how much dps would a high end build for a escort would do compared to this? if it near twice as much there is still a problem..
Also it has been noted these 10k+ cruiser builds have been tact captains while
Engineer captain's with great purple gear etc can reach around 7k according to these players but most of us can't get that kind of gear very easily at all, since doffs are expensive or very random .
I would like to compare top class dps with tact escorts, sci escort, engineer escort.
Then tact cruiser, sci cruiser, engineer cruiser.
Then science ships.
I posted a thread a little while back about my eng cruiser's damage. I have tweaked the D'kora up to about 10k in ISE/HOSE, 8-9 in CSE/KASE
Of course its also a full threat control tank as well, so it serves a purpose to any group.
I've been using a newer plug in lately for a parser, using the base damage value instead of actual. You'll score lower in CSE against endless unshielded targets, but way higher in HOSE then before. It seems to be more useful as damage values are more consistent and less based on debuffs or the shields you are shooting at, so the variance between bad and good groups for single players is a lot less.
I'd like to ask how much dps would a high end build for a escort would do compared to this? if it near twice as much there is still a problem..
Also it has been noted these 10k+ cruiser builds have been tact captains while
Engineer captain's with great purple gear etc can reach around 7k according to these players but most of us can't get that kind of gear very easily at all, since doffs are expensive or very random .
I would like to compare top class dps with tact escorts, sci escort, engineer escort.
Then tact cruiser, sci cruiser, engineer cruiser.
Then science ships.
The answer, for me at least, is apples and oranges.
I regularly out-damage other tacs in escorts over time with my cruiser builds. Whereas I cannot ever match my alpha in my Kumari with my cruisers. (I've hit 190k in one shot with the cannon overload, and popped 3 people in one shot in PvP with it, granted that was a holy TRIBBLE moment). The ship types are really that different.
Escorts and cannons are all about burst damage. Mainly because of the arcs and getting on target, and quite frankly that's what they're intended to do.
Cruisers and beams are about sustained damage (otherwise known as pressure damage on these forums). And will, if specced well enough, be viable in PvP.
Healing IS too powerful (especially passive healing) and there is almost no reason to run a healing build in PvP, let alone PvE (I don't even have a science BOff on my Kumari or my Regent). In PvP Burst damage is basically king. Whereas in PvE sustained damage is, and thus, beams.
Vex has posted and will continually post some of our FRAPS to show what can be done with these ships. But, of course, people will take what we say with skepticism. Which is fine, so long as it doesn't get nasty (trolling and name-calling) because that's why we did it. To prove it can be done.
So don't moan when you see that cruiser warp into your PUG, it just might be one of us...
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
ok i disagree on sustained damage being king in pve, burst is so good in stf's that it does make healing pointless and tanking and especially holds etc. Sure in pugs holds can be useful, but a well organized escort team stomps stfs even the elites with all the optional objectives really quick. That's not to say a full group of good cruiser pilots couldn't, (becuase i have done this before even in hive elite) they just can't do it as fast or efficiently
But yes passive healing is a bit strong in pve but i think that has to do with the fact ships have a basis towards damage vs hp, so they have to lower the amount of sustained damage mobs make, and instead make it bursty... Which imo is serious flaw in the pve design.
My skepticism isn't can you do it, its more that I don't think these or any other higher dps then average cruiser builds, prove that there is nothing wrong with the way pve and pvp seem to favor escorts.
Its fairly obvious issue in the game play and balance design of the game. It may however not be as bad as others such as myself have thought of it. That is why i need a lot of data from various different high end escort pilots etc..
I'd like to ask how much dps would a high end build for a escort would do compared to this? if it near twice as much there is still a problem
I know escorts who pull consistent 10-13k dps. and mind you they are not in a group full of tacs, these are simple pug numbers (I know one beat the 18k dps mark, tho that is pretty much with the bestest gear ever out there)
ok i disagree on sustained damage being king in pve, burst is so good in stf's that it does make healing pointless
what the hell heals in stfs? yeah stuff has the base heals, but the most I have seen is 3% up, and that is nothing. sustained dps in STFs is great. however sustained dps is just TRIBBLE in every other PVE event, as stuff does not live long enough to make up for the burst (like in SB24 or gorn minefield, where you must kill everything as fast as possible, and they have low health, so with escorts it is one volley, with beams it is two)
I am one of the Founders of Vex's, Protector's, Oridjerra's and Bottle's fleet. I really can't add too much to the conversation other than because of the collective builds of these four individual's (plus a couple others) our fleet has benefitted immeasurably. Some of you may decry the relevance of cruisers, the galaxy the most, but without these players doing experiments like this our fleet members would still be struggling to get to the 2k DPS mark in ISE for instance (thats an exageration, but you get the point). Also I don't know if we'd be effective in PvP at all.
I guess what I took away from these 18 pages (yes I read every post) is that no matter what, the Naysayers will say Nay even when the proof is right there (video, Vex offering to run STF's with you so you can see for yourself, complete posting of the build in question, ect.). I do know one thing, though, when we have our weekly fleet PvP night I always hate to see Vex on the other team because I know that no matter what he brings, it will be a monster build.....LOL
From one of the Founders of TOS Veterans, thanks for taking the time to do stuff like this Vex (and the other's in our fleet I mentioned), I feel it has made us better if not the community at large
Just my opinion, of course...Oh yeah, I happen to be an Engineer who flys a cruiser and I feel I do it better because of people like Vex, Protector, Oridjerra, Bottle and Cutter (another Founder of TOS Vets whom I don't remember seeing post in here...) taking the time to do things like this :cool:
Ok Elric, I will post a reply, since you noticed my conspicuous absence.
I too have read this entire post, and have over the years seen the Cryptic hate concerning game mechanics and how badly cruisers have been nerfed, or how horrible the galaxy is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, when there are players who can play the game and do things contrary to this collective opinion, and provide video and anecdotal evidence that demonstrates that things can be done in certain ships that many people jump on because it doesn't fit their personal agendas regarding how they think Cryptic should run their business, I would think it might be time for some to re-evaluate how strongly they may be expressing said opinions.
And to the nay-sayers ... to just discount what the OP has posted without even trying to check it out is kinda ridiculous. Take him up on his offer to come along on one of our STF runs.
We always have fun.
And remember, no one is saying the Galaxy is a fantastic ship. It is not an easy thing to get damage out of it with white mk X gear and turning that beast with a common mk x engine is painful. That some can do this is the whole point to all of this. So that people can give themselves a challenge and try something new.
And Vex, thanks for all of this, you make this game fun on a regular ongoing basis!
So many people on this forum have complained about beams and cruiser damage. So as an experiment I grabbed one of the weakest damaging fleet cruisers and tried to squeeze as much dps out of it as possible.
This ship pulls 9-10k dps in infected space elite.
Doffs are 2 purple conn officers to lower cooldown on tac team and 2 blue energy weapon doffs to lower the cooldown on faw. 1 purple doff to buff directed energy modulation
I actually had the idea also to stack plasma infusers and reduce cool-down on the beams to increase damage/sec but I am only at the captain level so I don't have access to best gear/weapons. It seems to work great from my experience so far. I didn't realize the infusers also increase plasma torpedo as well. Correct me if I am wrong.
Comments
yes the Oddy mainly died for plot the way most of the Early Gals did.
Without DCE you need two copies for constant cycling. Since each one puts it's other copy on a 30 second CD and any other EPtX on a 15 second cd and each one has a 30 second duration, you use it for 100% uptime of that ability. Basically his cycle would be EPtW3, EPtS1, EPtW3, EPtS1, EPtW3... and so on and so forth. It's the standard cycling for most cruiser class ships.
Please not this one again...
That argument was brought up a hundred times already and you know what?
No other ship would have survived that, its a miracle the Odyssey kept fighting that long. End of discussion IMO.
Compared to the T5 Intrepid, the Galaxy -R is a slow stationary practice with no means of offensive. The T5 Intrepid has access to Cmdr and Lt.Cmdr Science BOFF powers, this makes it unequally more versatile.
It (the Galaxy -R) combines everything that is boring about cruisers in STO and has the most passive BOFF layout in the whole game.
The Galaxy -R IS the worst ship, no matter how you turn it.
I personally like the 2x AtB version better, ok it's more expensive because of the DOFFs but it uses the same amount of BOFF powers (althrough only the level 1 version) but you get a much better offensive potential, virtually doubling you tac/science powers and High level Engineering powers.
Because of this, i have been running with 3 Blue technican DOFFs for a long time and had a much higher damage potential than with 2xEptW + 2xEptS.
err no.
The Shield penetration was a unique property of the dominions phased polaron weaponry. Its the same tech that pwned the defiant in "the search" and mauled the mixed romulan cardassian fleet in "the die is cast".
That is why weyoun was surprised to see DS9's shields resist the effect in "call to arms!"
here is the clip: http://youtu.be/QkQizwbq7Rs?t=2m35s
The Galaxy Class was shown to be a fairly offensive vessel on multiple occasions. One of he most memorable was actually against the Borg. During their first encounter, again using it's forward phaser arrays, the Enterprise blew several holes in a borg cube. Had they continued firing they very likely could have destroyed the Cube.
What is relevant to this thread is a captain, best results from tactical of course, can create a Galaxy Class starship that can be fun and competitive within reason. Yes, using others ships will net you better statistic results. If statistics are the primary concern, look elsewhere. If commanding a ship that inspires your love for Star Trek happens to be the Galaxy Class then Vex's build can be the foundation upon which a player can experiment with and build upon.
Cruisers really do shine.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
stoic and combatlogparser are the only ones that are accurate
and on those parser not even uber bug ship with mk xii purples accross the board wont get a 10k dps..simply because it doesnt do that unless its alpha striking
nice build though ..im sure its very effective..just really really no where near 10k ..
pass ur log through the parsers are mentioned and ulll see ur dps and exactly what dmg did any of ur weps/pets did .
stoic is outdated. and combatlogparser... well it is outdated too, tho it gives accurate dmg. and on my build the highest difference I have seen is 2k dps compared to act. and I have seen logs from my vesta at 9k up there, plus I know ppl who got 17k dps in it, so no, act is accurate enough for this conversation
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Its hard to argue with the video evidence of what these ships can do when build right.
At some point this week / weekend I plan to do a run with my fleet with all of us using common mk x gear like we did before in escorts / sci ships. I have zero doubt in my mind that we will beat the stf with the optional with plenty of time to spare.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
I'm not uber by any streatch of the imagination and I dont prise/log dps and I still consider myself a newb. but some time ago playing around with setups I ran EPTW and BFAW just with some standard gear and stuff melted. became damn obvious that beams can do good DPS if you can keep power levels well up you can get good DPS for sure from simiar setups i'm not suprised you can get great DPS running similar setups with top gear & optimized weapon procs/reputation gear. Been meaning to experiment with AUX to bat/power drain and so on. And I got Red matter cap now...
only real issue is that Fire at will spreads the DPS, makes it hard to focus dps on a single target unlike cannon skills rapid fire single target or scatter which hits an arc.
all being equal still cruisers can do good dps. Pisses me off when kids in STF tell cruiser pilots to leave saying they have no place in Elite STF missions.
you should invite me to STF, not to prove that you can do it. just so I can earn some fast Dilith! I think your better solo than a lot of PUGs I end up in...
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Most Tac's don't fly cruisers .
Engineers do , and they don't have an innate attack pattern to boost their damage , thus your claim that "in fact this sort of damage is achievable with beams" does not address the concern of many who do fly cruisers , but not as Tac's .
That's all I can say , as my knowledge of parsers is minimal , so I'm not sure what else could have been done to boost your damage .
But I will say this , I don't think in PVP (against faster moving foes) you would have gotten that high of a hit score .
Thanks for the quote link.
I have three "main" characters, an Eng, a Tac and a Sci. All of them use beams and all of them break 7k DPS easily. My Tac does 11k in his Regent or Fleet Excelsior. My Eng does 8k in his Fleet Excelisor, and my Sci does 8k in her Vesta.
I am in Vex's fleet and we constantly push ourselves to see who can do the most damage with our various builds, or who can be the most tanky, or who has the best uniform configuration. It's a friendly competition.
So yes, "this sort of damage is obtainable by ANYONE using beams" 7k+. Yes. Doable.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Also it has been noted these 10k+ cruiser builds have been tact captains while
Engineer captain's with great purple gear etc can reach around 7k according to these players but most of us can't get that kind of gear very easily at all, since doffs are expensive or very random .
I would like to compare top class dps with tact escorts, sci escort, engineer escort.
Then tact cruiser, sci cruiser, engineer cruiser.
Then science ships.
Of course its also a full threat control tank as well, so it serves a purpose to any group.
I've been using a newer plug in lately for a parser, using the base damage value instead of actual. You'll score lower in CSE against endless unshielded targets, but way higher in HOSE then before. It seems to be more useful as damage values are more consistent and less based on debuffs or the shields you are shooting at, so the variance between bad and good groups for single players is a lot less.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=580941
People need to start learning how to play instead of finding excuses why everyone else's numbers aren't really real.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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The answer, for me at least, is apples and oranges.
I regularly out-damage other tacs in escorts over time with my cruiser builds. Whereas I cannot ever match my alpha in my Kumari with my cruisers. (I've hit 190k in one shot with the cannon overload, and popped 3 people in one shot in PvP with it, granted that was a holy TRIBBLE moment). The ship types are really that different.
Escorts and cannons are all about burst damage. Mainly because of the arcs and getting on target, and quite frankly that's what they're intended to do.
Cruisers and beams are about sustained damage (otherwise known as pressure damage on these forums). And will, if specced well enough, be viable in PvP.
Healing IS too powerful (especially passive healing) and there is almost no reason to run a healing build in PvP, let alone PvE (I don't even have a science BOff on my Kumari or my Regent). In PvP Burst damage is basically king. Whereas in PvE sustained damage is, and thus, beams.
Vex has posted and will continually post some of our FRAPS to show what can be done with these ships. But, of course, people will take what we say with skepticism. Which is fine, so long as it doesn't get nasty (trolling and name-calling) because that's why we did it. To prove it can be done.
So don't moan when you see that cruiser warp into your PUG, it just might be one of us...
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
But yes passive healing is a bit strong in pve but i think that has to do with the fact ships have a basis towards damage vs hp, so they have to lower the amount of sustained damage mobs make, and instead make it bursty... Which imo is serious flaw in the pve design.
My skepticism isn't can you do it, its more that I don't think these or any other higher dps then average cruiser builds, prove that there is nothing wrong with the way pve and pvp seem to favor escorts.
Its fairly obvious issue in the game play and balance design of the game. It may however not be as bad as others such as myself have thought of it. That is why i need a lot of data from various different high end escort pilots etc..
what the hell heals in stfs? yeah stuff has the base heals, but the most I have seen is 3% up, and that is nothing. sustained dps in STFs is great. however sustained dps is just TRIBBLE in every other PVE event, as stuff does not live long enough to make up for the burst (like in SB24 or gorn minefield, where you must kill everything as fast as possible, and they have low health, so with escorts it is one volley, with beams it is two)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
I guess what I took away from these 18 pages (yes I read every post) is that no matter what, the Naysayers will say Nay even when the proof is right there (video, Vex offering to run STF's with you so you can see for yourself, complete posting of the build in question, ect.). I do know one thing, though, when we have our weekly fleet PvP night I always hate to see Vex on the other team because I know that no matter what he brings, it will be a monster build.....LOL
From one of the Founders of TOS Veterans, thanks for taking the time to do stuff like this Vex (and the other's in our fleet I mentioned), I feel it has made us better if not the community at large
Just my opinion, of course...Oh yeah, I happen to be an Engineer who flys a cruiser and I feel I do it better because of people like Vex, Protector, Oridjerra, Bottle and Cutter (another Founder of TOS Vets whom I don't remember seeing post in here...) taking the time to do things like this :cool:
Qapla'!
Co-Founder of TOS Veterans and TOS Qan Mang
I too have read this entire post, and have over the years seen the Cryptic hate concerning game mechanics and how badly cruisers have been nerfed, or how horrible the galaxy is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, when there are players who can play the game and do things contrary to this collective opinion, and provide video and anecdotal evidence that demonstrates that things can be done in certain ships that many people jump on because it doesn't fit their personal agendas regarding how they think Cryptic should run their business, I would think it might be time for some to re-evaluate how strongly they may be expressing said opinions.
And to the nay-sayers ... to just discount what the OP has posted without even trying to check it out is kinda ridiculous. Take him up on his offer to come along on one of our STF runs.
We always have fun.
And remember, no one is saying the Galaxy is a fantastic ship. It is not an easy thing to get damage out of it with white mk X gear and turning that beast with a common mk x engine is painful. That some can do this is the whole point to all of this. So that people can give themselves a challenge and try something new.
And Vex, thanks for all of this, you make this game fun on a regular ongoing basis!
Cutter@darthjef
Co-founder, TOS Veterans and Qan Mang
tosfleet.com
I actually had the idea also to stack plasma infusers and reduce cool-down on the beams to increase damage/sec but I am only at the captain level so I don't have access to best gear/weapons. It seems to work great from my experience so far. I didn't realize the infusers also increase plasma torpedo as well. Correct me if I am wrong.