I'm betting that cruiser wasn't doing any DPS though since I almost never see them (and when you do, they're normally dead before they get a couple of volleys off) - premades have a tank throwing out heals and/or debuffs and you can't do that effectively if you're trying to squeeze DPS out of a cruiser.
Carriers get inflated DPS scores because of their pets - try again without using any and you'll see the real DPS your beams are doing.
Funny you don't see dedicated escort healers either isn't it? And why WOULDN'T a carrier count its pet's damage as its own... its a carrier for a reason isn't it?
I said beams cant do damage compared to DHCs. sure they can be effective.
just out of curiousity. does that 17k come only from your beams, or your pets too?
I said beams cant do damage compared to DHCs. sure they can be effective.
just out of curiousity. does that 17k come only from your beams, or your pets too?
the pets pull 1.5-2.5k thats still 14.5k from my beams
Where does one draw the line, when does the slippery slope end? I am referencing of course to 'optimal' vs 'effective' vs 'bad' and honestly it comes down to personal preference.
4 minute STF run? 8 minute run? can solo it? can get optional? can get optional with bad PuG? And so on. Let me make a simple list here and please don't get too hung up on the ordering.
Tier 1
Kumari /w Tac Captain
JHEC /w Tac Captain
So lets say these two ships can solo ISE and in good groups clear it in four minutes.
And these guys can carry a terri-bad PuG and get 6 minute runs on average.
Tier 3
This galaxy build
Other strong beam builds
This ship can also carry a bad PuG and gets 8 minute runs on average. But gets 4 minutes still in their premade don't forget!
Tier 4
Random effective builds
Here we can't really carry a bad PuG but still get optional if the team isnt full of dinks.
Tier 5
Flavor fun builds
In a premade of 5 these guys can still get optional with a minute to spare but bad PuG spells doom.
It call comes down to where you draw the line. This build is very effective even if not using an optimal ship and that is good enough for the OP and most others.
Lastly throw a Maco shield on this thing to get more DPS if your shot at (the +power is great for beams especially as it jumps in mid firing cycle). And that defiant was me
I guess I get a little cranky seeing these threads because all they're doing is 'papering over the cracks' and they're actually holding this game back (for Cruiser/Science Vessel players anyway).
Yes, if you go all out with a DPS-focused build with lots of purple Mk XII, aggressive skill-point allocation and the right Boff skills, you can put together a Cruiser or Sci ship that does useful DPS in PvE.
Does it compete with a similarly aggressive Kumari/JHAS/Fleet Defiant build? No. Not even close.
Can it be fun? Yes - a lot of fun, in fact, my favorite ship is my Tac/Excelsior.
Threads like this though imply that there's little wrong with ship/Captain balance and nothing could be further from the truth. Science Captains got nerfed hard because Tac Captains boosted Sci skills to absurd levels. Engineering Captains have been marginalized to near irrelevance in their supposed role because of boosts to healing/regen/resists.
And a DPS-centric approach to group play has made those captains at best feel like second-class citizens and at worst made them feel entirely redundant. This needs to change - and threads like this about 'uber' Cruisers really aren't helping because they're not uber at all - they're fun, they're different, but they're still broken.
I guess I get a little cranky seeing these threads because all they're doing is 'papering over the cracks' and they're actually holding this game back (for Cruiser/Science Vessel players anyway).
Yes, if you go all out with a DPS-focused build with lots of purple Mk XII, aggressive skill-point allocation and the right Boff skills, you can put together a Cruiser or Sci ship that does useful DPS in PvE.
Does it compete with a similarly aggressive Kumari/JHAS/Fleet Defiant build? No. Not even close.
Can it be fun? Yes - a lot of fun, in fact, my favorite ship is my Tac/Excelsior.
Threads like this though imply that there's little wrong with ship/Captain balance and nothing could be further from the truth. Science Captains got nerfed hard because Tac Captains boosted Sci skills to absurd levels. Engineering Captains have been marginalized to near irrelevance in their supposed role because of boosts to healing/regen/resists.
And a DPS-centric approach to group play has made those captains at best feel like second-class citizens and at worst made them feel entirely redundant. This needs to change - and threads like this about 'uber' Cruisers really aren't helping because they're not uber at all - they're fun, they're different, but they're still broken.
Your philosophy and mine clearly dont match. Thats fine. But I will continue to pug with this ship and laugh myself silly when I double and tripple pug tacs in defiants damage.
Your philosophy and mine clearly dont match. Thats fine. But I will continue to pug with this ship and laugh myself silly when I double and tripple pug tacs in defiants damage.
Well if out-DPS'ing incompetent players is how you get your kicks then that puts this entire thread into perspective.
There's nothing remarkable or clever about your build, you've simply stuffed a Galaxy with all the purple Mk XII gear you could get your hands on. Applying the exact same rationale to a Fleet Excelsior would get you even more DPS (and better turn-rate to boot).
I wish that wasn't the case - I wish we had the flexibility to really refine the kind of build that we wanted to fly but we don't because weapons, consoles, Boff skills, Doffs and passives all seem to benefit Tacs and Tac ships better than they do any other class.
And trying to convince anyone that your Galaxy build is somehow competitive is naive I'm afraid.
Your philosophy and mine clearly dont match. Thats fine. But I will continue to pug with this ship and laugh myself silly when I double and tripple pug tacs in defiants damage.
Then Join a pvp game in said ship and watch as your sto world crumbles in around you and you scream out
I wish craptic would fix beams so they don't bounce off those bops shields why the bops laughs and screams "teeeehehe stop tickling me"
Yes I know cruisers aren't meant to deal the damage escorts can but then again when you think about it escorts shouldn't be able to tank how they can should they??
LOGIC...
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Well if out-DPS'ing incompetent players is how you get your kicks then that puts this entire thread into perspective.
There's nothing remarkable or clever about your build, you've simply stuffed a Galaxy with all the purple Mk XII gear you could get your hands on. Applying the exact same rationale to a Fleet Excelsior would get you even more DPS (and better turn-rate to boot).
I wish that wasn't the case - I wish we had the flexibility to really refine the kind of build that we wanted to fly but we don't because weapons, consoles, Boff skills, Doffs and passives all seem to benefit Tacs and Tac ships better than they do any other class.
And trying to convince anyone that your Galaxy build is somehow competitive is naive I'm afraid.
The entire point of this wasnt to do the max damage in the best ship. It was to do the max damage in the worst ship. to prove it could be done.
Then Join a pvp game in said ship and watch as your sto world crumbles in around you and you scream out
I wish craptic would fix beams so they don't bounce off those bops shields why the bops laughs and screams "teeeehehe stop tickling me"
Yes I know cruisers aren't meant to deal the damage escorts can but then again when you think about it escorts shouldn't be able to tank how they can should they??
LOGIC...
This was a purely pve build When I run premade pvp with my friends I fly a Jem'hadar Attack Ship.
Nowhere in the 11 pages of this thread have I ever mentioned pvp and how badass this ship would be in it... Cause I know it wouldnt stand up in that situation. By all means though keep throwing scenarios that Id never consider taking the ship into to prove it sucks.
The simple fact is that its a very effective pve build that will out dps 85% of the players in this game in whats supposedly one of the worst damaging ships in the game. I set out to see what I could do in this ship with the best of gear even though I know its far from the optimal ship to use.
Ive run the optimal ships. Im bored of always being top damage and waiting for instances to come off cooldown so I can play again. I built this ship to be fun. Not to be the baddest most powerful thing ever made.
Im a TNG and DS9 fan at heart so the galaxy and defiant will always have a special place for me. When I pvp I put sentimentality away and take the biggest meanest thing I can find to hurt the other team with.
Im at a point where I can solo or duo anything short of hive elite. Why not try experiments like this to see what I can do in ships that arent meant for the role. Why not think outside the box once in a while and have some fun with the game instead of just running the same content over and over with the best of everything and roflstomping it all.
This was a purely pve build When I run premade pvp with my friends I fly a Jem'hadar Attack Ship.
Nowhere in the 11 pages of this thread have I ever mentioned pvp and how badass this ship would be in it... Cause I know it wouldnt stand up in that situation. By all means though keep throwing scenarios that Id never consider taking the ship into to prove it sucks.
The simple fact is that its a very effective pve build that will out dps 85% of the players in this game in whats supposedly one of the worst damaging ships in the game. I set out to see what I could do in this ship with the best of gear even though I know its far from the optimal ship to use.
Ive run the optimal ships. Im bored of always being top damage and waiting for instances to come off cooldown so I can play again. I built this ship to be fun. Not to be the baddest most powerful thing ever made.
Im a TNG and DS9 fan at heart so the galaxy and defiant will always have a special place for me. When I pvp I put sentimentality away and take the biggest meanest thing I can find to hurt the other team with.
Im at a point where I can solo or duo anything short of hive elite. Why not try experiments like this to see what I can do in ships that arent meant for the role. Why not think outside the box once in a while and have some fun with the game instead of just running the same content over and over with the best of everything and roflstomping it all.
I understand where your coming from and I too love the galaxy and the defiant because of those reasons
I just think its stupid how the galaxy can be used to such good effect in one element of the game then in another your stuck with being a healer or a tank or dead
Yet in the defiant you can do the same job in all elements of the game you don't have to change and aren't forced to do a job you dot want to do
Anyway back on topic sorry for goin slightly off topic I'm definitely going to try a plasma pvp build and will be taking some pointers from yours less the remain gear(due to dilit TRIBBLE they give you)
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Run the maco shield and omega deflector and engine. Keeps you tanky but gives you the tetryon glider to help with shield stripping. Replace the emitters with flow cap and you will be more effective in that regard. Honestly Ive been running it with the omega / maco combo for a day or so now. Still using emitter arrays though. Its nice never dying.
The entire point of this wasnt to do the max damage in the best ship. It was to do the max damage in the worst ship. to prove it could be done.
Just my 0,02Euros.
If i where you i wouldn't have started a thread to "help" others, if i clearly didn't had the knowledge like someone with 3 years of experience.
I am sorry to say that, but the build you have posted isn't really anything special, not to say it leaves a lot room for improvement.
Purple equipment is just one side, the other is to cleverly use the right BOFF powers in combination with certain DOFFs to create a useful synergy, to support your playstyle.
Don't get me wrong i love the Galaxy Class too, but what Cryptic did with it is just disastrous.
I completely understand your motives, to get the best out of that ship.
But by all means your build is far from it (sorry). If i where you, i wouldn't argue with people having clearly more experience with cruiser and STO about it, i would try to improve it.
Learn what other people do and use that knowlede for your own purposes, run a few tests, do some experiments even if it seems to be a crazy idea sometimes it can lead you to someething useful.
Surely you can equip your cruiser with the highest possible gear, but someone can do the same thing with his escort.
In my opinion the cruisers role of healers and supporters like Cryptics devs wanted them to be, is clearly failed. (because of various reasons)
STO has become DPS centered, no one needs supporters or healers because Escorts can survive on their own (as they should), now Cryptic has to do the next step and make Cruisers more all round ships, capable to move closer to how escorts do perform (firepower wise). If they would do that , ships in STO would become the generalists like the ships in the shows.
Cruisers should get almost as much firepower as escorts, they should be just slower and more sturdy instead of fast and nimble.
To claim cruisers are alright already doesn't help anyone.
As i said just my 0,02 Euros.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
If i where you i wouldn't have started a thread to "help" others, if i clearly didn't had the knowledge like someone with 3 years of experience.
I am sorry to say that, but the build you have posted isn't really anything special, not to say it leaves a lot room for improvement.
Purple equipment is just one side, the other is to cleverly use the right BOFF powers in combination with certain DOFFs to create a useful synergy, to support your playstyle.
Don't get me wrong i love the Galaxy Class too, but what Cryptic did with it is just disastrous.
I completely understand your motives, to get the best out of that ship.
But by all means your build is far from it (sorry). If i where you, i wouldn't argue with people having clearly more experience with cruiser and STO about it, i would try to improve it.
Learn what other people do and use that knowlede for your own purposes, run a few tests, do some experiments even if it seems to be a crazy idea sometimes it can lead you to someething useful.
Surely you can equip your cruiser with the highest possible gear, but someone can do the same thing with his escort.
In my opinion the cruisers role of healers and supporters like Cryptics devs wanted them to be, is clearly failed. (because of various reasons)
STO has become DPS centered, no one needs supporters or healers because Escorts can survive on their own (as they should), now Cryptic has to do the next step and make Cruisers more all round ships, capable to move closer to how escorts do perform (firepower wise). If they would do that , ships in STO would become the generalists like the ships in the shows.
Cruisers should get almost as much firepower as escorts, they should be just slower and more sturdy instead of fast and nimble.
To claim cruisers are alright already doesn't help anyone.
As i said just my 0,02 Euros.
Not one person in here has told me a way to make it better. Many have said either its no good or that my numbers are false. simply put I built this ship for dps and survivability. It pulls very good damage and doesnt die. Id call that a success in my books.
Show me something that will make it better and I will gladly try it ec / zen willing.
Not one person in here has told me a way to make it better. Many have said either its no good or that my numbers are false. simply put I built this ship for dps and survivability. It pulls very good damage and doesnt die. Id call that a success in my books.
Show me something that will make it better and I will gladly try it ec / zen willing.
Hey, I take offense to that. After all I did suggest trying the Borg set and KCB to see if it helps/adds damage =P
All that aside, you almost maxed out the damage you can pull from a pure plasma galaxy anyways. The only thing I would suggest to add damage would be to maybe try a wide angle quantum. That way you can maintain an almost complete broadside giving you max beam damage and still get the heavy hits from a torp. But I guess that is nullified with maneuvering, sooo yeah XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Ive run it that way but I like the beam overload from the full romulan set.
With the saucer off and the tachyokinetic boosting turn rate its got a great turn rate anyhow to get those torps off. Ive put no points in torps so Im really only using the torp to offset power drain. If it hits Im happy.
If i where you i wouldn't have started a thread to "help" others, if i clearly didn't had the knowledge like someone with 3 years of experience.
I am sorry to say that, but the build you have posted isn't really anything special, not to say it leaves a lot room for improvement.
Purple equipment is just one side, the other is to cleverly use the right BOFF powers in combination with certain DOFFs to create a useful synergy, to support your playstyle.
Don't get me wrong i love the Galaxy Class too, but what Cryptic did with it is just disastrous.
I completely understand your motives, to get the best out of that ship.
But by all means your build is far from it (sorry). If i where you, i wouldn't argue with people having clearly more experience with cruiser and STO about it, i would try to improve it.
Learn what other people do and use that knowlede for your own purposes, run a few tests, do some experiments even if it seems to be a crazy idea sometimes it can lead you to someething useful.
Surely you can equip your cruiser with the highest possible gear, but someone can do the same thing with his escort.
In my opinion the cruisers role of healers and supporters like Cryptics devs wanted them to be, is clearly failed. (because of various reasons)
STO has become DPS centered, no one needs supporters or healers because Escorts can survive on their own (as they should), now Cryptic has to do the next step and make Cruisers more all round ships, capable to move closer to how escorts do perform (firepower wise). If they would do that , ships in STO would become the generalists like the ships in the shows.
Cruisers should get almost as much firepower as escorts, they should be just slower and more sturdy instead of fast and nimble.
To claim cruisers are alright already doesn't help anyone.
As i said just my 0,02 Euros.
I really reject your premise that a Cruiser has to be a healer and a Supporter. But your entitled to your "Opinion" I don't fault any player for taking any ship and speccing it out to any role they want.... And the fact that you chide the OP for succeeding at doing DPS clearly shows that don't understand his motive. Looking at your signature I get it, you have an Axe to grind about Cryptic and the Galaxy... so I can see how someone doing 10k DPs in it scuttles your argument.
Not one person in here has told me a way to make it better. Many have said either its no good or that my numbers are false. simply put I built this ship for dps and survivability. It pulls very good damage and doesnt die. Id call that a success in my books.
Show me something that will make it better and I will gladly try it ec / zen willing.
Fair enough.
I'm not overly familiar with the Galaxy, but if it's capable of running an Aux2Batt build then that's the most effective way to get DPS out of a cruiser at the moment.
Additionally, whilst the Rom Plasma Beam Arrays are nice, they're not going to get you as much DPS as an AntiProton setup (increased Crits) - [Acc]x2 AntiProtons are now available as Advanced Fleet Weapons so I'd suggest taking a look at that (the Mk XII Mag Regulators will cost you a fortune though).
If you want to stick with the Rom Plasma, get an Experimental Plasma Beam Array - it'll save you some Weapons power and with your Rom Torp and Zero-Point console get you the Plasma Hyperflux.
If you switch to AntiProton I'd swap out the Rom Torp for an Omega - it does *massive* crits with THY and you'll have the Omega Weapons Amplifier too. You might want to change your 7th Beam Array for a Kinetic Cutting Beam too for the 3-piece bonus and slightly decreased power drain.
I'd also run Omega Deflector and Engines (as you mentioned, for the Tachyon Glider) plus either MACO or Elite Fleet Shields. Spec into Flow Caps and all the Energy Weapons skills at 9 points plus Energy Weapon Specialization.
And a DPS-centric approach to group play has made those captains at best feel like second-class citizens and at worst made them feel entirely redundant. This needs to change - and threads like this about 'uber' Cruisers really aren't helping because they're not uber at all - they're fun, they're different, but they're still broken.
I disagree. I have both a sci in s sci vessel and an engi in a cruiser and both are built around DPS with their secondary abilities (space magic and tanking respectively) being effective as well. I do think that Borg being all but immune to a lot of sci abilities is a poor design choice (really is it that hard to make them be less affected but still affected at all??)
Clearly we have differing opinions on what broken and different mean. I find the current metagame allows for people to play many different ways just fine. It could stand to be tweaked for sure (vote +1/+2 turning for cruisers ont eh next election!) but the radical change people love to spout off is both unnecessary and usually wrong. Cryptic may, of course, decide to implement a big change (such as th emuch talked about armor for cruisers) to incentivize sales but that's another discussion entirely.
Would it be logical to have read the appropriated posts to discover this clearly is a PvE build style and not suitable for PvP? It would certainly be logical to be informed of all the facts in a situation before making a fool of one self right?
I disagree. I have both a sci in s sci vessel and an engi in a cruiser and both are built around DPS with their secondary abilities (space magic and tanking respectively) being effective as well. I do think that Borg being all but immune to a lot of sci abilities is a poor design choice (really is it that hard to make them be less affected but still affected at all??)
Clearly we have differing opinions on what broken and different mean. I find the current metagame allows for people to play many different ways just fine. It could stand to be tweaked for sure (vote +1/+2 turning for cruisers ont eh next election!) but the radical change people love to spout off is both unnecessary and usually wrong. Cryptic may, of course, decide to implement a big change (such as th emuch talked about armor for cruisers) to incentivize sales but that's another discussion entirely.
Just because you can do adequate DPS doesn't mean that it's in any way competitive with what a Tac can do - heck, a Tac can even make Sci Skills do more DPS than a Sci can and that's just plain wrong.
I play all 3 professions and my Sci and Eng (both KDF) have the most optimal builds possible for DPS yet their output is still pitiful in comparison to Tacs - it's not something you'll notice so much in PvE, but in PvP the gulf is huge - you can have a 4 x DHC, specced up the wazoo Cruiser or Raptor and be unable to take down a Tactical opponent because of heals and resists and the lack of damage multipliers like APA and GDF.
I guess the real issue is that the Borg are so weak as an opponent that players don't realise how underperforming their builds really are
I guess the real issue is that the Borg are so weak as an opponent that players don't realise how underperforming their builds are
I think we all know that's 100% int intentional. Its why they've managed to keep the "oops, 1 hit invisitorp of doom, tee hee!", even though they've been looking into it for what seems like years now, to add a fake level of "difficulty".
Still, for the average players ESTFs are hard, or at least Cure and Hive are. You need to realize this is the game now. It'll never be really hard to experienced players again. This is what you need to measure things against, not what a "real PvPer" can do.
Would it be logical to have read the appropriated posts to discover this clearly is a PvE build style and not suitable for PvP? It would certainly be logical to be informed of all the facts in a situation before making a fool of one self right?
I don't feel like a fool do you boy???
If YOU read all the posts before making this random act of stupidity you wouldn't indeed realise I'd explained myself further in the thread numb n**s now who's made a fool of oneself
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
The entire point of this wasnt to do the max damage in the best ship. It was to do the max damage in the worst ship. to prove it could be done.
I just LOL at how many people missed your point entirely and failed to read half of what was written.
I myself am another cruiser pilot who can pull insane DPS and believe me, I do not have a high end build (I still run a lot of blue consoles etc). But it is good to see it actually being shown that even with the tactical gimping a cruiser can still be very viable in the game.
There's been too many lately screeching cruisers are not viable anymore wah wah. Harden up and learn to play. Cruisers are STILL one of the most viable ships out there. They can do serious sustained damage and take the licking in the process.
Thanks for showing it vexashen...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
If YOU read all the posts before making this random act of stupidity you wouldn't indeed realise I'd explained myself further in the thread numb n**s now who's made a fool of oneself
Funny, the post I responded to is still there.... personally, I do think you should. But alas, we all have opinions don't we?
I'm not overly familiar with the Galaxy, but if it's capable of running an Aux2Batt build then that's the most effective way to get DPS out of a cruiser at the moment.
Additionally, whilst the Rom Plasma Beam Arrays are nice, they're not going to get you as much DPS as an AntiProton setup (increased Crits) - [Acc]x2 AntiProtons are now available as Advanced Fleet Weapons so I'd suggest taking a look at that (the Mk XII Mag Regulators will cost you a fortune though).
If you want to stick with the Rom Plasma, get an Experimental Plasma Beam Array - it'll save you some Weapons power and with your Rom Torp and Zero-Point console get you the Plasma Hyperflux.
If you switch to AntiProton I'd swap out the Rom Torp for an Omega - it does *massive* crits with THY and you'll have the Omega Weapons Amplifier too. You might want to change your 7th Beam Array for a Kinetic Cutting Beam too for the 3-piece bonus and slightly decreased power drain.
I'd also run Omega Deflector and Engines (as you mentioned, for the Tachyon Glider) plus either MACO or Elite Fleet Shields. Spec into Flow Caps and all the Energy Weapons skills at 9 points plus Energy Weapon Specialization.
Well I am running the experimental beam. Also you are looking only at tac consoles and beam damage. Keep in mind the 2 peice romulan weapon set boosts plasma damage as well as all 3 of the sci consoles boost plasma damage. The synergy there gives me equivalent of 3.5 tac consoles instead of 2. Ill give up crtd with low crit rate for that any day.
Also I fail to see with my doff and boff layout how the aux2bat build would be better. Im running tac team doffs to lower the cooldown to the global, energy weapon doffs to lower the cooldown to the global again on faw2 and a dem doff to give me a nice power boost.
Ens Eng: Engineering Team 1
Lt. Com Eng: EPtS 1, Aux2Bat 1, RSP
Com Eng: EPtW 1, Aux2Bat 1, EWP 1, DEM 3
Lt. Sci: TB 1, HE 2
Lt. Tac: FaW 1, APB 1
All leadership boffs sans Tac and your passive regen will keep you alive. Take 2 Technician doffs (or 3), DEM doff, and 1-2 Maintenance Engineers
Even if your damage doesn't go up the teams will (APB FTW!) and honestly if I can keep a NegVar alive without tac team and only 1 leadership boff with threat control specced you should be able to keep this alive. You may want the doff & TSS that lets TSS remove boarding parties though fair warning Assimilate ship sucks.
Comments
Funny you don't see dedicated escort healers either isn't it? And why WOULDN'T a carrier count its pet's damage as its own... its a carrier for a reason isn't it?
I said beams cant do damage compared to DHCs. sure they can be effective.
just out of curiousity. does that 17k come only from your beams, or your pets too?
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
the pets pull 1.5-2.5k thats still 14.5k from my beams
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
4 minute STF run? 8 minute run? can solo it? can get optional? can get optional with bad PuG? And so on. Let me make a simple list here and please don't get too hung up on the ordering.
Tier 1
Kumari /w Tac Captain
JHEC /w Tac Captain
So lets say these two ships can solo ISE and in good groups clear it in four minutes.
Tier 2
Above /w Sci/Eng Captain
Random Escort /w Tac Captain
And these guys can carry a terri-bad PuG and get 6 minute runs on average.
Tier 3
This galaxy build
Other strong beam builds
This ship can also carry a bad PuG and gets 8 minute runs on average. But gets 4 minutes still in their premade don't forget!
Tier 4
Random effective builds
Here we can't really carry a bad PuG but still get optional if the team isnt full of dinks.
Tier 5
Flavor fun builds
In a premade of 5 these guys can still get optional with a minute to spare but bad PuG spells doom.
It call comes down to where you draw the line. This build is very effective even if not using an optimal ship and that is good enough for the OP and most others.
Lastly throw a Maco shield on this thing to get more DPS if your shot at (the +power is great for beams especially as it jumps in mid firing cycle). And that defiant was me
Yes, if you go all out with a DPS-focused build with lots of purple Mk XII, aggressive skill-point allocation and the right Boff skills, you can put together a Cruiser or Sci ship that does useful DPS in PvE.
Does it compete with a similarly aggressive Kumari/JHAS/Fleet Defiant build? No. Not even close.
Can it be fun? Yes - a lot of fun, in fact, my favorite ship is my Tac/Excelsior.
Threads like this though imply that there's little wrong with ship/Captain balance and nothing could be further from the truth. Science Captains got nerfed hard because Tac Captains boosted Sci skills to absurd levels. Engineering Captains have been marginalized to near irrelevance in their supposed role because of boosts to healing/regen/resists.
And a DPS-centric approach to group play has made those captains at best feel like second-class citizens and at worst made them feel entirely redundant. This needs to change - and threads like this about 'uber' Cruisers really aren't helping because they're not uber at all - they're fun, they're different, but they're still broken.
Your philosophy and mine clearly dont match. Thats fine. But I will continue to pug with this ship and laugh myself silly when I double and tripple pug tacs in defiants damage.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Well if out-DPS'ing incompetent players is how you get your kicks then that puts this entire thread into perspective.
There's nothing remarkable or clever about your build, you've simply stuffed a Galaxy with all the purple Mk XII gear you could get your hands on. Applying the exact same rationale to a Fleet Excelsior would get you even more DPS (and better turn-rate to boot).
I wish that wasn't the case - I wish we had the flexibility to really refine the kind of build that we wanted to fly but we don't because weapons, consoles, Boff skills, Doffs and passives all seem to benefit Tacs and Tac ships better than they do any other class.
And trying to convince anyone that your Galaxy build is somehow competitive is naive I'm afraid.
Then Join a pvp game in said ship and watch as your sto world crumbles in around you and you scream out
I wish craptic would fix beams so they don't bounce off those bops shields why the bops laughs and screams "teeeehehe stop tickling me"
Yes I know cruisers aren't meant to deal the damage escorts can but then again when you think about it escorts shouldn't be able to tank how they can should they??
LOGIC...
The entire point of this wasnt to do the max damage in the best ship. It was to do the max damage in the worst ship. to prove it could be done.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
This was a purely pve build When I run premade pvp with my friends I fly a Jem'hadar Attack Ship.
Nowhere in the 11 pages of this thread have I ever mentioned pvp and how badass this ship would be in it... Cause I know it wouldnt stand up in that situation. By all means though keep throwing scenarios that Id never consider taking the ship into to prove it sucks.
The simple fact is that its a very effective pve build that will out dps 85% of the players in this game in whats supposedly one of the worst damaging ships in the game. I set out to see what I could do in this ship with the best of gear even though I know its far from the optimal ship to use.
Ive run the optimal ships. Im bored of always being top damage and waiting for instances to come off cooldown so I can play again. I built this ship to be fun. Not to be the baddest most powerful thing ever made.
Im a TNG and DS9 fan at heart so the galaxy and defiant will always have a special place for me. When I pvp I put sentimentality away and take the biggest meanest thing I can find to hurt the other team with.
Im at a point where I can solo or duo anything short of hive elite. Why not try experiments like this to see what I can do in ships that arent meant for the role. Why not think outside the box once in a while and have some fun with the game instead of just running the same content over and over with the best of everything and roflstomping it all.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
I understand where your coming from and I too love the galaxy and the defiant because of those reasons
I just think its stupid how the galaxy can be used to such good effect in one element of the game then in another your stuck with being a healer or a tank or dead
Yet in the defiant you can do the same job in all elements of the game you don't have to change and aren't forced to do a job you dot want to do
Anyway back on topic sorry for goin slightly off topic I'm definitely going to try a plasma pvp build and will be taking some pointers from yours less the remain gear(due to dilit TRIBBLE they give you)
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Just my 0,02Euros.
If i where you i wouldn't have started a thread to "help" others, if i clearly didn't had the knowledge like someone with 3 years of experience.
I am sorry to say that, but the build you have posted isn't really anything special, not to say it leaves a lot room for improvement.
Purple equipment is just one side, the other is to cleverly use the right BOFF powers in combination with certain DOFFs to create a useful synergy, to support your playstyle.
Don't get me wrong i love the Galaxy Class too, but what Cryptic did with it is just disastrous.
I completely understand your motives, to get the best out of that ship.
But by all means your build is far from it (sorry). If i where you, i wouldn't argue with people having clearly more experience with cruiser and STO about it, i would try to improve it.
Learn what other people do and use that knowlede for your own purposes, run a few tests, do some experiments even if it seems to be a crazy idea sometimes it can lead you to someething useful.
Surely you can equip your cruiser with the highest possible gear, but someone can do the same thing with his escort.
In my opinion the cruisers role of healers and supporters like Cryptics devs wanted them to be, is clearly failed. (because of various reasons)
STO has become DPS centered, no one needs supporters or healers because Escorts can survive on their own (as they should), now Cryptic has to do the next step and make Cruisers more all round ships, capable to move closer to how escorts do perform (firepower wise). If they would do that , ships in STO would become the generalists like the ships in the shows.
Cruisers should get almost as much firepower as escorts, they should be just slower and more sturdy instead of fast and nimble.
To claim cruisers are alright already doesn't help anyone.
As i said just my 0,02 Euros.
Not one person in here has told me a way to make it better. Many have said either its no good or that my numbers are false. simply put I built this ship for dps and survivability. It pulls very good damage and doesnt die. Id call that a success in my books.
Show me something that will make it better and I will gladly try it ec / zen willing.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Hey, I take offense to that. After all I did suggest trying the Borg set and KCB to see if it helps/adds damage =P
All that aside, you almost maxed out the damage you can pull from a pure plasma galaxy anyways. The only thing I would suggest to add damage would be to maybe try a wide angle quantum. That way you can maintain an almost complete broadside giving you max beam damage and still get the heavy hits from a torp. But I guess that is nullified with maneuvering, sooo yeah XD.
With the saucer off and the tachyokinetic boosting turn rate its got a great turn rate anyhow to get those torps off. Ive put no points in torps so Im really only using the torp to offset power drain. If it hits Im happy.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
I really reject your premise that a Cruiser has to be a healer and a Supporter. But your entitled to your "Opinion" I don't fault any player for taking any ship and speccing it out to any role they want.... And the fact that you chide the OP for succeeding at doing DPS clearly shows that don't understand his motive. Looking at your signature I get it, you have an Axe to grind about Cryptic and the Galaxy... so I can see how someone doing 10k DPs in it scuttles your argument.
Fair enough.
I'm not overly familiar with the Galaxy, but if it's capable of running an Aux2Batt build then that's the most effective way to get DPS out of a cruiser at the moment.
Additionally, whilst the Rom Plasma Beam Arrays are nice, they're not going to get you as much DPS as an AntiProton setup (increased Crits) - [Acc]x2 AntiProtons are now available as Advanced Fleet Weapons so I'd suggest taking a look at that (the Mk XII Mag Regulators will cost you a fortune though).
If you want to stick with the Rom Plasma, get an Experimental Plasma Beam Array - it'll save you some Weapons power and with your Rom Torp and Zero-Point console get you the Plasma Hyperflux.
If you switch to AntiProton I'd swap out the Rom Torp for an Omega - it does *massive* crits with THY and you'll have the Omega Weapons Amplifier too. You might want to change your 7th Beam Array for a Kinetic Cutting Beam too for the 3-piece bonus and slightly decreased power drain.
I'd also run Omega Deflector and Engines (as you mentioned, for the Tachyon Glider) plus either MACO or Elite Fleet Shields. Spec into Flow Caps and all the Energy Weapons skills at 9 points plus Energy Weapon Specialization.
I disagree. I have both a sci in s sci vessel and an engi in a cruiser and both are built around DPS with their secondary abilities (space magic and tanking respectively) being effective as well. I do think that Borg being all but immune to a lot of sci abilities is a poor design choice (really is it that hard to make them be less affected but still affected at all??)
Clearly we have differing opinions on what broken and different mean. I find the current metagame allows for people to play many different ways just fine. It could stand to be tweaked for sure (vote +1/+2 turning for cruisers ont eh next election!) but the radical change people love to spout off is both unnecessary and usually wrong. Cryptic may, of course, decide to implement a big change (such as th emuch talked about armor for cruisers) to incentivize sales but that's another discussion entirely.
Logic indeed.
Would it be logical to have read the appropriated posts to discover this clearly is a PvE build style and not suitable for PvP? It would certainly be logical to be informed of all the facts in a situation before making a fool of one self right?
Just because you can do adequate DPS doesn't mean that it's in any way competitive with what a Tac can do - heck, a Tac can even make Sci Skills do more DPS than a Sci can and that's just plain wrong.
I play all 3 professions and my Sci and Eng (both KDF) have the most optimal builds possible for DPS yet their output is still pitiful in comparison to Tacs - it's not something you'll notice so much in PvE, but in PvP the gulf is huge - you can have a 4 x DHC, specced up the wazoo Cruiser or Raptor and be unable to take down a Tactical opponent because of heals and resists and the lack of damage multipliers like APA and GDF.
I guess the real issue is that the Borg are so weak as an opponent that players don't realise how underperforming their builds really are
I think we all know that's 100% int intentional. Its why they've managed to keep the "oops, 1 hit invisitorp of doom, tee hee!", even though they've been looking into it for what seems like years now, to add a fake level of "difficulty".
Still, for the average players ESTFs are hard, or at least Cure and Hive are. You need to realize this is the game now. It'll never be really hard to experienced players again. This is what you need to measure things against, not what a "real PvPer" can do.
I don't feel like a fool do you boy???
If YOU read all the posts before making this random act of stupidity you wouldn't indeed realise I'd explained myself further in the thread numb n**s now who's made a fool of oneself
I just LOL at how many people missed your point entirely and failed to read half of what was written.
I myself am another cruiser pilot who can pull insane DPS and believe me, I do not have a high end build (I still run a lot of blue consoles etc). But it is good to see it actually being shown that even with the tactical gimping a cruiser can still be very viable in the game.
There's been too many lately screeching cruisers are not viable anymore wah wah. Harden up and learn to play. Cruisers are STILL one of the most viable ships out there. They can do serious sustained damage and take the licking in the process.
Thanks for showing it vexashen...
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Funny, the post I responded to is still there.... personally, I do think you should. But alas, we all have opinions don't we?
Well I am running the experimental beam. Also you are looking only at tac consoles and beam damage. Keep in mind the 2 peice romulan weapon set boosts plasma damage as well as all 3 of the sci consoles boost plasma damage. The synergy there gives me equivalent of 3.5 tac consoles instead of 2. Ill give up crtd with low crit rate for that any day.
Also I fail to see with my doff and boff layout how the aux2bat build would be better. Im running tac team doffs to lower the cooldown to the global, energy weapon doffs to lower the cooldown to the global again on faw2 and a dem doff to give me a nice power boost.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shield: Maco
Ens Eng: Engineering Team 1
Lt. Com Eng: EPtS 1, Aux2Bat 1, RSP
Com Eng: EPtW 1, Aux2Bat 1, EWP 1, DEM 3
Lt. Sci: TB 1, HE 2
Lt. Tac: FaW 1, APB 1
All leadership boffs sans Tac and your passive regen will keep you alive. Take 2 Technician doffs (or 3), DEM doff, and 1-2 Maintenance Engineers
Even if your damage doesn't go up the teams will (APB FTW!) and honestly if I can keep a NegVar alive without tac team and only 1 leadership boff with threat control specced you should be able to keep this alive. You may want the doff & TSS that lets TSS remove boarding parties though fair warning Assimilate ship sucks.