Another whining post? Come on...just move on. Its kind of naive to assume KDF got screwed since the whole STO is lagging behind to some degree. Are you for real to tell me with a straight face that FED content superior to KDF?.... NOT.....By the same logic why would KDF be Superior over FED? It just doesnt make sense to me and if you are looking for PERFECTION in a game YOU ARE LOOKING IN THE WRONG PLACES. There are so many countless of bugs in FED content/play as well as KDF. There will be some more bugs in Romulan as well...the sooner you come to realize that this is JUST a game and not reality the better for you to get over it or just do some other type of Virtual reality venture...disagree as much as you want but put things into perspective and logical :cool:
right, ever tried levelling a klingon when it started out?
Your experience from launch of STO has absolutely no relevance to a discussion of where the KDF stands today. Please move on, no one cares.
____________________________________________________
Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
I'm glad they got more missions, so the T0 and T1 ships can come back. Just wonder if the original KDF stories are going back to their proper levels or the new ones are going to be scooted in as lower tiered missions?
Cryptic makes trrible stuff (like poor ships) for Klingons and then wonders why no one will buy. If something worthy of real money was placed in the Zen store than I bet people would buy it.
Don't make a bad product and then complain when no one buys.
Except Paramount/CBS has market research 9and sale results) that show Klingon (Hell ANY non-Federation as primary focus) games do not sell as much. Star Trek WASN'T focused on the Klingons or Romulans; it was focused on Earth (Humanity) and the Federation Earth was a part of. Does that mean Klingons, Romulans and other elements a smaller subset of the larger Star Trek fanbase identified with weren't fleashed out, or expanded upon? Nope. But I can tell you, EVEN IF the KDF had launched with equal PvE content; you STILL wouldn't have had player numbers equal to those player Fed characters.
Some people just don't identify with the other races/cultures in Star trek, hell even on the Fed side the MOST played race is actually Human. Why? The majority of Star Trek fans want to be or emulate: Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer; and a much smaller portion want to emulate: Kor/Worf/Tomolak, etc. <--- That's just the way it's been for the past 45+ years of Star Trek.
All that said, I DO hope Cryptic finally DOES actually add enough PvE content to effectively finish the 1-20 portion that 's been missing from the KDF faction; and that the Romulan faction is also a full faction at this expansion's launch -- but we'll see as it hits Tribble/Redshirt; and know once this all his the Live server on May 21,2013.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Content, seriously? It's not about content. Vice Admirals and all the STF's will be cross-faction anyway.
What's it's really about it all the extras. FEDs have like 60 different costumes they can buy through the C-Store. How many do the KDF have? Three?
This is a TRIBBLE for the KDF because instead of making even just two or three new costumes or a new ship to counter the Andorian escorts, they instead are making tons of new ships and costumes for an all-new faction.
They work with limited resources and instead of using those resources to help the ailing faction, they've instead created an all-new ailing faction.
But I can tell you, EVEN IF the KDF had launched with equal PvE content; you STILL wouldn't have had player numbers equal to those player Fed characters.
Some people just don't identify with the other races/cultures in Star trek, hell even on the Fed side the MOST played race is actually Human. Why? The majority of Star Trek fans want to be or emulate: Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer; and a much smaller portion want to emulate: Kor/Worf/Tomolak, etc. <--- That's just the way it's been for the past 45+ years of Star Trek.
Anecdotal evidence of this was clear to anyone who went to Megacon. For every Klingon, there were one or two dozen people in Federation uniforms. In fact, it was the smallest number of Klingons I've ever seen at Megacon. Klingon fandom reached its zenith while Worf was on the air, and has dropped steadily ever since he left it.
They're great fans, they're AWESOME fans, but they've never been anything resembling a majority, or even parity.
I'm glad they're getting a full leveling experience, and I personally intend to level a Klingon up from 1 to the cap (while everybody else is leveling their Space Drow), but Klingons are a tiny fraction of Trek fans, and there is nothing that is ever going to change that, short of 7+ seasons of Battlecruiser Vengeance: veb puq poH.*
* Klingon for "The Next Generation", of course.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Their fanbase is still larger than the Romulan fan base.
You just don't see the rom fanbase at cons. They are there, they just go in disguise or use cloaks. Rom fans are sneaky, just like sneaky roms.
But yeah. Not sure how this is going to shake out to being a financial win in the future for Cryptic unless they make jointly useable KDF/ROM c-store items. Maybe by combining the two populations you'd have enough financial incentive to slow down the fed c-store items for something else.
Anecdotal evidence of this was clear to anyone who went to Megacon. For every Klingon, there were one or two dozen people in Federation uniforms. In fact, it was the smallest number of Klingons I've ever seen at Megacon. Klingon fandom reached its zenith while Worf was on the air, and has dropped steadily ever since he left it.
They're great fans, they're AWESOME fans, but they've never been anything resembling a majority, or even parity.
I'm glad they're getting a full leveling experience, and I personally intend to level a Klingon up from 1 to the cap (while everybody else is leveling their Space Drow), but Klingons are a tiny fraction of Trek fans, and there is nothing that is ever going to change that, short of 7+ seasons of Battlecruiser Vengeance: veb puq poH.*
* Klingon for "The Next Generation", of course.
Each one of those klingon fans = a dozen fed fans. Any dork can put on a 10 dollar t-shirt and a fed communicator pin and be instantly recognized, but a klingon uniform is much more expensive as well as make-up ,wigs and weapons.
You guys will get a million XP for completing the tutorial, which instantly makes you level 20. Thus, you have a true 1-50 experience.
That would be freaking hilarious.
I mean looking at this thread, the announcement hadn't even been public for an hour when already people were complaining, like they somehow expected the game to be remade to their fantasies. I'm amazed there's even going to be this much. The real fun will then be when the Rom players start whining that 'we're not a full faction, nobody loves us!' too.
Each one of those klingon fans = a dozen fed fans. Any dork can put on a 10 dollar t-shirt and a fed communicator pin and be instantly recognized, but a klingon uniform is much more expensive as well as make-up ,wigs and weapons.
If you go as Kang from TOS, you have less makeup and wig costs at least.
* Start at level 0 (often the devs get it wrong and say level 1, but you get the point) as your first character. This alone is huge -- as everyone was forced to play Fed for 25 levels (unlocking KDF at level 24) before they got a chance at KDF. At that point they were too invested in their character to immediately start over and make a new character.
* Brand new tutorial. The current one wasn't exactly the best and paled in comparison to Fed version.
* New UI options. While it didn't bother me at all, I've heard many people complain the red caused headaches and they literally could not look at their screen with that much red without getting ill. Now that limitation will be a thing of the past.
If Cryptic is smart they will focus a lot of their attention on fleshing out the Klingon and Romulan factions for the rest of the year (at least) since Federation is in a solid spot.
^ Very much this! ^
I really don't get the need for complaints on this day, as I believe that what we got today was only positive news.
Like the poster I quoted said, this what was announced today resolves the two most acking issues the KDF has IMO - being locked behind 25 levels of Fed. play and people having headache/colourblindness issues with the current Klingon UI. Those were two of the biggest dealbreakers for our faction and now they're gone!
What we know of today is - KDF has those 3 quoted improvements that are very much wellcomed. It is a big step forward for the KDF.The game is growing. Adding a new faction could only add to the depth of the game and the fun of the experience....I'm already imaginig the 3-way PvP! It is a big step forward for STO!
All this negativity is based on assumptions and previous experiences. Nowhere does it say that there will not be any leveling content from 1 to 20 and I'd rather stay positive and assume there is then to assume there is not and be depressed over it. And we should let bygones be bygones. We'll see what the future holds for KDF, but to get annoyed over assumptions is IMHO wrong and not healthy at all. Especially in a day when we recieved such good news for the KDF.
Now if you'd excuse me, I now have the incentive to visit the red side of the C-Store and gear up my ships a bit more so I can make a proper STO wellcome for my arch-enemies! muhahah :P:D
Each one of those klingon fans = a dozen fed fans. Any dork can put on a 10 dollar t-shirt and a fed communicator pin and be instantly recognized, but a klingon uniform is much more expensive as well as make-up ,wigs and weapons.
Anyway, I get it and I agree that Klingon costumes are cool and expensive.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The KDF will never be happy. They have the toughest ships and best and I might add the coolest looking ground equipment. True the content is not what the Feds have but the gap is narrowing.
I have VA's in both factions and yes I got my KDF VA the hard way. I try to play as much of the game as possible, if you get bored and upset with one faction switch to the other one for a bit. If you are playing only 1 faction wether Fed or KDF, you are missing out on the overall game and you will be get frustrated.
I am glad we have a 3rd faction coming in, it means more stuff to do.
However not to sure I am going to be happy with how much this will cost in Zen ie: real money.
One thing they still need to do is Update/fix/make better/do something constructive with PvP. Maybe look at other MMO's that have a decent PvP platform and get some ideas. EQ/PoTBS come to mind.
Bring on the Romulans...tired of killin Borg, KDF, Tholians and the Feds...:P
"Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
I think Cryptic has a very good idea as to how many Borts were sold, and I do not believe anyone could call the Bort a "poor ship."
It's not about self-fulfilling prophecies. It's about knowing exactly how many KDF items get sold in the C-Store, knowing how many KDF items are chosen in the Lobi Store, it's knowing how many Fleet ships are sold, and it's knowing exactly how many people log in and play KDF every single day.
The only ones guessing about the data are the KDF fans.
Their metrics tells them how people play KDF in its current state. It tells them nothing about players like me who would add KDF characters to the mix if KDF had a fully fleshed out storyline.
If the new KDF content fills that gap, my KDF characters will see more playtime. In fact, I will delete a couple and start from scratch to get the full experience. I might even invest in some of the C-store KDF ships.
The content I enjoy is the episodic content. The KDF didn't have much, so I didn't spend nearly as much time with it. If the KDF and Romulan factions are truly filled out, I'll probably be spending a lot of my playtime on those factions in the short term, simply because it's new content of the kind I enjoy. Then I'll probably balance out among all three factions.
What I really want to know is can the KDF survive without their common anger at Cryptic?
"You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it." - Chancellor Gorkon
I don't know what people are complaining about. Well I guess the complaints will keep coming in until Cryptic figures out a way to turn people into actual Klingons and builds time machine to send them into the future.
One of the 0.7%ers Markus Urelious 16000+ Accolades [Fed Tac FA] + Several More
Anybody living in reality doesn't debate the metric. It is under 20%. That number has floated as low as 12%, but it is still 20% or under. Anybody disputing that is both blind and a conspiracy theorist.
The metric does not excuse not having the same amount of endgame content. I could care less about number if ships (assuming enough variety to be viable) due to lack of sales. I don't care a lick about storyline episodes (I run them once, then maybe again at 50 to hit them up for a gear upgrade)
I care about the fact that at endgame when I pop open my PvE queue looking for something to blast my options are not nearly as fleshed out as the other side, when all they have to do is make copies of the existing federation fleet alerts. They have proven they have the ability, they copied the KDF versoin of the minefield to give to the Federation... Of course they didn't see fit to do the same in reverse for Starbase 24 or any of the others...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
We all know that Klinkons has been treated badly my Cryptic, very little content and compared to Federation very few ships and other stuff. and now Cryptic releases another faction.
This is the final nail in the coffin of KDF.
Start reading friend don't stir up the KDF members, read the news !!!
Because I read it I read there will be Klingon design ready to lvl from 1 to 50 so I doubt they will do nothing ...
Bran close this tread please because he can't read someone hand him glasses maybe the blind targ can read it over this time !!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I am refering to more than the n 5 days it takes to get to level 50. I am refering to an identity other than "lets share the fed stf". I am refering to things happening outside the fed storylines.
This is all Star Trek Storylines. KDF and Romulans are not ever going to get different endgame from FED, and why should they? What other multi-faction MMO has faction only endgame content?
This really does however boil down why the KDF will never be happy, and why we should spend more time ignoring their whines, they don't want to be equal, they want to have more then anyone else. They are the eternal victim.
I wish KDF players were more like Klingons and less like mewling targ pups seeking the comfort of their mother's teat.
I'm not saying it did get an equal share, I just refuse to see the whole faction so negatively. The KDF has lots of areas where it excels and is simply better and more enjoyable than the Fed side.
The claim of some KDF players that the faction is dead, doesn't get worked on and gets "shafted" is simply an outright lie. I've gotten more enjoyment out of additions to the KDF side in the past year, than to those on Fed side.
I didn't say "equal share." I said "a fair shake." In no way has the KDF faction been given anything more than a token glance as far as dev resources in this game.
DStahl himself has acted in this very forum as though KDF players should be GROVELLING AT HIS FEET in absolute adoration over the tablescraps that have been added to KDF play since launch, when even IF they quadruple the amount of KDF-specific content in this expansion, without touching Feds at all, it's STILL outbalanced by a significant amount towards Feds. He was outright insulted that, after promising a "massive" KDF content push (which translated to no more than seven KDF-specific missions, which looked like mid-level Foundry content when launched, only buggier), KDF players weren't impressed.
Cryptic's definition - and apparently yours, too - of respectable KDF content is completely out of touch with the rest of the playerbase. Between that and Cryptic's own, well-documented history of breaking promises about KDF content and outright lying about its development, anyone expecting anything bigger than a minor UI change and some more faction-neutral content for the KDF side is likely going to be very disappointed.
Comments
Your experience from launch of STO has absolutely no relevance to a discussion of where the KDF stands today. Please move on, no one cares.
Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
Except Paramount/CBS has market research 9and sale results) that show Klingon (Hell ANY non-Federation as primary focus) games do not sell as much. Star Trek WASN'T focused on the Klingons or Romulans; it was focused on Earth (Humanity) and the Federation Earth was a part of. Does that mean Klingons, Romulans and other elements a smaller subset of the larger Star Trek fanbase identified with weren't fleashed out, or expanded upon? Nope. But I can tell you, EVEN IF the KDF had launched with equal PvE content; you STILL wouldn't have had player numbers equal to those player Fed characters.
Some people just don't identify with the other races/cultures in Star trek, hell even on the Fed side the MOST played race is actually Human. Why? The majority of Star Trek fans want to be or emulate: Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer; and a much smaller portion want to emulate: Kor/Worf/Tomolak, etc. <--- That's just the way it's been for the past 45+ years of Star Trek.
All that said, I DO hope Cryptic finally DOES actually add enough PvE content to effectively finish the 1-20 portion that 's been missing from the KDF faction; and that the Romulan faction is also a full faction at this expansion's launch -- but we'll see as it hits Tribble/Redshirt; and know once this all his the Live server on May 21,2013.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
What's it's really about it all the extras. FEDs have like 60 different costumes they can buy through the C-Store. How many do the KDF have? Three?
This is a TRIBBLE for the KDF because instead of making even just two or three new costumes or a new ship to counter the Andorian escorts, they instead are making tons of new ships and costumes for an all-new faction.
They work with limited resources and instead of using those resources to help the ailing faction, they've instead created an all-new ailing faction.
I find the social interactions of these Klingons interesting. Every Romulan Zoo should have one...or a pair.
Romulus may be gone but the Romulan Fleet is NOT.
Anecdotal evidence of this was clear to anyone who went to Megacon. For every Klingon, there were one or two dozen people in Federation uniforms. In fact, it was the smallest number of Klingons I've ever seen at Megacon. Klingon fandom reached its zenith while Worf was on the air, and has dropped steadily ever since he left it.
They're great fans, they're AWESOME fans, but they've never been anything resembling a majority, or even parity.
I'm glad they're getting a full leveling experience, and I personally intend to level a Klingon up from 1 to the cap (while everybody else is leveling their Space Drow), but Klingons are a tiny fraction of Trek fans, and there is nothing that is ever going to change that, short of 7+ seasons of Battlecruiser Vengeance: veb puq poH.*
* Klingon for "The Next Generation", of course.
Their fanbase is still larger than the Romulan fan base.
You guys will get a million XP for completing the tutorial, which instantly makes you level 20. Thus, you have a true 1-50 experience.
You just don't see the rom fanbase at cons. They are there, they just go in disguise or use cloaks. Rom fans are sneaky, just like sneaky roms.
But yeah. Not sure how this is going to shake out to being a financial win in the future for Cryptic unless they make jointly useable KDF/ROM c-store items. Maybe by combining the two populations you'd have enough financial incentive to slow down the fed c-store items for something else.
Each one of those klingon fans = a dozen fed fans. Any dork can put on a 10 dollar t-shirt and a fed communicator pin and be instantly recognized, but a klingon uniform is much more expensive as well as make-up ,wigs and weapons.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
That would be freaking hilarious.
I mean looking at this thread, the announcement hadn't even been public for an hour when already people were complaining, like they somehow expected the game to be remade to their fantasies. I'm amazed there's even going to be this much. The real fun will then be when the Rom players start whining that 'we're not a full faction, nobody loves us!' too.
Well played. You got me there. I don't even have antiproton scans to even try to detect them at the cons.
^ Very much this! ^
I really don't get the need for complaints on this day, as I believe that what we got today was only positive news.
Like the poster I quoted said, this what was announced today resolves the two most acking issues the KDF has IMO - being locked behind 25 levels of Fed. play and people having headache/colourblindness issues with the current Klingon UI. Those were two of the biggest dealbreakers for our faction and now they're gone!
What we know of today is - KDF has those 3 quoted improvements that are very much wellcomed. It is a big step forward for the KDF.The game is growing. Adding a new faction could only add to the depth of the game and the fun of the experience....I'm already imaginig the 3-way PvP!
All this negativity is based on assumptions and previous experiences. Nowhere does it say that there will not be any leveling content from 1 to 20 and I'd rather stay positive and assume there is then to assume there is not and be depressed over it. And we should let bygones be bygones. We'll see what the future holds for KDF, but to get annoyed over assumptions is IMHO wrong and not healthy at all.
Now if you'd excuse me, I now have the incentive to visit the red side of the C-Store and gear up my ships a bit more so I can make a proper STO wellcome for my arch-enemies! muhahah :P:D
You were saying something about makeup, I believe?
Anyway, I get it and I agree that Klingon costumes are cool and expensive.
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If I had a piece of dilithium for every time I heard about the KDF coffin FINALLY being nailed shut I could afford a T5 Starbase!
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
I have VA's in both factions and yes I got my KDF VA the hard way. I try to play as much of the game as possible, if you get bored and upset with one faction switch to the other one for a bit. If you are playing only 1 faction wether Fed or KDF, you are missing out on the overall game and you will be get frustrated.
I am glad we have a 3rd faction coming in, it means more stuff to do.
However not to sure I am going to be happy with how much this will cost in Zen ie: real money.
One thing they still need to do is Update/fix/make better/do something constructive with PvP. Maybe look at other MMO's that have a decent PvP platform and get some ideas. EQ/PoTBS come to mind.
Bring on the Romulans...tired of killin Borg, KDF, Tholians and the Feds...:P
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Their metrics tells them how people play KDF in its current state. It tells them nothing about players like me who would add KDF characters to the mix if KDF had a fully fleshed out storyline.
If the new KDF content fills that gap, my KDF characters will see more playtime. In fact, I will delete a couple and start from scratch to get the full experience. I might even invest in some of the C-store KDF ships.
The content I enjoy is the episodic content. The KDF didn't have much, so I didn't spend nearly as much time with it. If the KDF and Romulan factions are truly filled out, I'll probably be spending a lot of my playtime on those factions in the short term, simply because it's new content of the kind I enjoy. Then I'll probably balance out among all three factions.
"You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it." - Chancellor Gorkon
Neverwinter Wiki
I don't know what people are complaining about. Well I guess the complaints will keep coming in until Cryptic figures out a way to turn people into actual Klingons and builds time machine to send them into the future.
The metric does not excuse not having the same amount of endgame content. I could care less about number if ships (assuming enough variety to be viable) due to lack of sales. I don't care a lick about storyline episodes (I run them once, then maybe again at 50 to hit them up for a gear upgrade)
I care about the fact that at endgame when I pop open my PvE queue looking for something to blast my options are not nearly as fleshed out as the other side, when all they have to do is make copies of the existing federation fleet alerts. They have proven they have the ability, they copied the KDF versoin of the minefield to give to the Federation... Of course they didn't see fit to do the same in reverse for Starbase 24 or any of the others...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Start reading friend don't stir up the KDF members, read the news !!!
Because I read it I read there will be Klingon design ready to lvl from 1 to 50 so I doubt they will do nothing ...
Bran close this tread please because he can't read someone hand him glasses maybe the blind targ can read it over this time !!!
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
This is all Star Trek Storylines. KDF and Romulans are not ever going to get different endgame from FED, and why should they? What other multi-faction MMO has faction only endgame content?
This really does however boil down why the KDF will never be happy, and why we should spend more time ignoring their whines, they don't want to be equal, they want to have more then anyone else. They are the eternal victim.
I wish KDF players were more like Klingons and less like mewling targ pups seeking the comfort of their mother's teat.
Some of us actually can play KDF without making a horrid display out of ourselves anytime anyone else in the world gets anything, thanks very much.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
You're right, it's hard to tell who has more makeup on, Kirk or Kang.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
They said no new faction until the KDF was complete.
KDF is not complete.
We are getting a new faction.
Any Klingon worth the title would be a bit upset at the lack of honor.
I don't even make unreasonable requests. I don't want everything the Feds have. I just want an equal amount of end game events.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I didn't say "equal share." I said "a fair shake." In no way has the KDF faction been given anything more than a token glance as far as dev resources in this game.
DStahl himself has acted in this very forum as though KDF players should be GROVELLING AT HIS FEET in absolute adoration over the tablescraps that have been added to KDF play since launch, when even IF they quadruple the amount of KDF-specific content in this expansion, without touching Feds at all, it's STILL outbalanced by a significant amount towards Feds. He was outright insulted that, after promising a "massive" KDF content push (which translated to no more than seven KDF-specific missions, which looked like mid-level Foundry content when launched, only buggier), KDF players weren't impressed.
Cryptic's definition - and apparently yours, too - of respectable KDF content is completely out of touch with the rest of the playerbase. Between that and Cryptic's own, well-documented history of breaking promises about KDF content and outright lying about its development, anyone expecting anything bigger than a minor UI change and some more faction-neutral content for the KDF side is likely going to be very disappointed.