I'm not a gameplay expert, but even I know that Escorts can't keep enemies in their forward arcs all the time. And if an enemy manages to get out of that arc, and get behind you (whether with cloak or other means), you're essentially toast.
The trick is getting behind those forward weapons. Escorts often have to pull straight-line strafing runs, so they sometimes end up flying over you. This means "Boom! Bye-bye Kumari!".
Evasive maneuvers with conn doffs, rcs consoles and deutronium surplus and team work pretty much solves that problem (granted the last one needs a pre-made to make it work).
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Most people have characters on both sides. You're not playing some exclusive faction, stop roleplaying as this bitter Klingon lol.
Blah, blah, blah..Both sides, blah, blah.
Most people who make fun of the people playing KDF play Fed primarily, and slum on the Klingon side when their bored because they've whined on the forums about how they want everything the KDF has, then Craptic folded and gave it to them.
Lets get that straight right off.
As sad as it is that the KDF regularly spanks the Feds in PvP with ships that were originally released when STO launched, just think what would happen if they gave us REAL ships to fight with. Yea, that'd last a day and Craptic would yank them because the Feds would whine so bad.
Evasive maneuvers with conn doffs, rcs consoles and deutronium surplus and team work pretty much solves that problem (granted the last one needs a pre-made to make it work).
Maybe, but if you're avoiding an enemy, you're most likely not shooting any appreciable DPS either
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Evasive maneuvers with conn doffs, rcs consoles and deutronium surplus and team work pretty much solves that problem (granted the last one needs a pre-made to make it work).
Not really. If these people are on a team that are focusing on keeping that escort alive, then you have a team that can focus on killing that escort. Something that happens a lot when I play PvP (which is rare) is a single ship will get surrounded by the whole team and will get completely blitzed.
Maybe, but if you're avoiding an enemy, you're most likely not shooting any appreciable DPS either
Who said avoiding, go in guns blazing and when you pass the enemy hit evasive/deutronium turn around and you and your team mates will finish off the topic.
Not really. If these people are on a team that are focusing on keeping that escort alive, then you have a team that can focus on killing that escort. Something that happens a lot when I play PvP (which is rare) is a single ship will get surrounded by the whole team and will get completely blitzed.
That's true for a Pug, but necccesarily true for a premade.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Who said avoiding, go in guns blazing and when you pass the enemy hit evasive/deutronium turn around and you and your team mates will finish off the topic.
Any semi-compotent premade team will pwn in PvP.
That's true for a Pug, but necccesarily true for a premade.
I never said they couldn't
I'm just saying, a lot can happen in PvP, and it may be a matter of seconds. You could turn around and finish off that enemy with the boosted turn-around you mentioned, but at the same time you could suddenly have all the other enemies focus exclusively on you, and suddenly you're in trouble (if you're not being blown up in an instant).
And with this escort, it's gonna have a lot of trouble with the latter, even as it excels at the former.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I'm just saying, a lot can happen in PvP, and it may be a matter of seconds. You could turn around and finish off that enemy with the boosted turn-around you mentioned, but at the same time you could suddenly have all the other enemies focus exclusively on you, and suddenly you're in trouble (if you're not being blown up in an instant).
And with this escort, it's gonna have a lot of trouble with the latter, even as it excels at the former.
I run into that with my JHAS (DPS oriented, of course). Borg gear healing procs combined with my engineer toon's healing abilities and my fleetmates make it not a problem.
A pug doesn' know one end of a sword from another. A team of fleetmates is another story.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I like the stats very much. The Kumari line represents what escorts should really be - able to deliver huge amounts of damage BUT at the cost of decreased survivability. Finally cruisers are coming back to business.
I run into that with my JHAS (DPS oriented, of course). Borg gear healing procs combined with my engineer toon's healing abilities and my fleetmates make it not a problem.
A pug doesn' know one end of a sword from another. A team of fleetmates is another story.
*holds up knife* Which end do the bullets go in again?
It is a nice looking ship if the incentive for me to buy and use one still existed.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
*holds up knife* Which end do the bullets go in again?
rofl
*Holds up sword*
This is the thermionic disruptor *points at blade* and this is the time-space transmuter *points at hilt*.
It's a special KIND of sword!
*ahem*
Back on topic, this ship is not overpowered. That reduction in survivability will make a huge difference. In all actuality, at some point one of the healer ship is gonna suffer and stop healing the escort and heal themselves. Also, what happens if there are more than one escort?
The Vesta ships got 3 different costume options, which is 2 more than the Odyssey got.
I'd say that's way better than a unique bridge, since you actually see your ship a lot, instead of the near-useless interior that you might visit once a month just to run around in circles doing nothing.
I count the Vesta ahead of the Odyssey on this one.
I don't see where you get "low, decreased survivability" from. Aside from the tac Kumari variant, these escorts are as tough as any other escort. They're as fast as any other escort.
But they get the advantage of 1 more forward weapon.
To make them fall in line with other escorts, either 1 forward weapons slot needs to be removed, or at least the 5th slot must only accept the special wing cannons (hoping they aren't completely crazy).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Back on topic, this ship is not overpowered. That reduction in survivability will make a huge difference. In all actuality, at some point one of the healer ship is gonna suffer and stop healing the escort and heal themselves. Also, what happens if there are more than one escort?
Teamwork makes the dreamwork (as do the appropriate powers, consoles, batteries etc).
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
3 purple damage control doffs will let 1 copy of EPtS work to keep you covered most of the time. and if you HAVE to use the tac version, get in a pugmade on opvp channel with at least 1 decent healer, then stay within 7 of them. glass cannon, ya right, practicaly cant happen if you play this game as a team, your only as fragile as your healer has heals. and the hitpioints it has? plenty for any heavy spike soak, unlike a bop.
Exactly. A good team will not just be able to keep one of these alive, but be able to kill one as well.
Very true, but to say this thing somehow suffers from decreased survivibility considering all that is avalible in this game to increase said survivibility makes no sense. Any compotent person will have more big an issue surviving in this thing than in any other escort.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Would be better to change up the LT. commander stations instead of the LT stations on the ships. This would be better for Engineering and Science captains.
One of the 0.7%ers Markus Urelious 16000+ Accolades [Fed Tac FA] + Several More
Would be better to change up the LT. commander stations instead of the LT stations on the ships. This would be better for Engineering and Science captains.
changing the ensign into universal is more like it... it's an escort after all.
Defiant
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
Nice ship, how sad that after reading and looking at the pix I thought the star of the show was the cannons equipped on this ship, but when I saw the pathetic turn rate and said what a shame another escort that cant turn worth a dam to use them properly.
Really Devs would it have killed you guys to have an escort on the fed side to go past a 17 turn rate maybe 18 since its a glass cannon in all.
Indeed, the Bridge does look spectacular. Granted this entire line is based off the Kumari, but they could have updated the bridge a little. Looks a little bit plain to me.
Yeah, what's with this? 85 crew? Really? Sure it's an escort, but don't ships get bigger as time goes on? Will be interesting to see what size this is when it comes out. The Patrol Escort has a crew of 200.
Either way, looks good, though I was hoping for a Lieutenant Commander Engineering Slot for the Engineering version. I may have to rethink my purchase.
Yeah, what's with this? 85 crew? Really? Sure it's an escort, but don't ships get bigger as time goes on? Will be interesting to see what size this is when it comes out. The Patrol Escort has a crew of 200.
Yah, the stats really suprised me, I was expecting something more along the lines of a destroyer.
Either way, looks good, though I was hoping for a Lieutenant Commander Engineering Slot for the Engineering version. I may have to rethink my purchase.
Really wish they had kept the Boff scheme along the lines of what was done with the Odyssey and the Vesta.
I really didn't think I'd see a day when the Defiant and MVAE, and Armitage dreaded three tactical ensign slots would ever be outdone.
I was wrong.
Now we have a ship, that has
CMD Tac
Ltc Tac
Lt Tac
Really? Lt Tac also?
Let's forget all the rest of the things going on with the ship in question, and just zero in on the main issue:
Adding "MOAR" low level tactical stations is about the least useful thing that could possibly be given to a ship - and yet, here we have it!
Cryptic has basically outdone themselves.
Fleet Defiant? Still haven't purchased it.
Fleet MVAE? Nope, no sale here.
Fleet HEC? Refuse to buy a ship with 3 tactical Ensigns.
Tactical Kumari: See the above, but now actually even more hilariously bad.
Throwing MOAR TAC at a ship doesn't make it MOAR effective.
It makes it less effective, and to be frank it just looks ridiculous.
Maybe there is some super special ensign boff power revamp on the horizon I'm aware of, or maybe yet another escort has been saddled with an atrocious BOFF layout.
At least we have the Sci and Eng variants I guess?
Dear mods: This post was a thread created about the issue of too many tactical stations on ALL escorts and is not specifically about the Kumari. This post does not belong here.
Agreed. I'm all over the other variants, but will miss the extra tac consoles. But I'm eager to try out more engi BOffs.
0
archoncrypticMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Just wanted to answer a few of the questions I've seen on this thread.
1. The Wing Cannons have a higher base DPS than Mk XII DHCs, but their energy drain is even higher (15). They have a very slow rate of fire and a cooldown between shots; they're essentially like "super" heavy cannons. They're listed as having [DMG]X4, but that's just to give you a ballpark figure, since there isn't really anything directly comparable. They're really more like an entirely new weapon type.
I'm aware Accuracy is more popular among most players than raw damage, but damage was thematically appropriate for these cannons.
2. Yes, you could slot all DHCs up front, but you wouldn't be able to benefit from the console abilities, since the consoles only function on the Wing Cannons.
3. The Wing Cannon Platforms deployed by the Engineering ship's console will only fire when you fire your Wing Cannons. (Yes, they're a lot like Option in Gradius.) They also deal less damage than a single normal weapon slot each, and they're destructible, with health comparable to fighters. If they're destroyed, the console has a 180 second cooldown, so you'd have to wait to re-deploy them. So, it's not really like you have 7 Fore Weapon slots. In testing, we've found that they're useful when you can keep them alive, but in PvP they can be very easily neutralized.
4. When the Wing Cannon Platforms use one of your cannon abilities as a result of your 3 piece set bonus, they still don't hit as hard as a player version of that ability. Hitting a target with three Overload attacks is still awesome, but it's not 3x the damage of the player version.
5. The Andorian Phasers (other than the Wing Cannons) are standard phasers in terms of stats. They're just color tinted to look appropriate for an Andorian ship. The ones on the Dilithium store are MK XI Purple quality, similar to other Diltihium stores. They're [Acc]x2[Dmg]. We may release more variants on these eventually, but probably not in the immediate future.
6. The "glass cannon" comment on the blog refers to both the bridge officer layouts (which do not allow for much self-healing, especially the Tactical variant) and the fact the ship does not have the Fleet bonus to Hull or Shields.
This has to be by far the worst ship stat wise in the game. (nice design)
Just look at it, its hull is TRIBBLE, , its crew complement is practically nonexistent, its Boff layout is nothing to brag about and as for the 5 forward weapon slots, have you seen the pathetic turn rate it has, my BoP can fly circles around that thing, and by the time the ship turns around I will have cloaked and left him with his Buffs powered up and no one to shoot at.
This ship is nothing but BoP food, talk about an easy target. Sure it can kill maybe one target, but for every target it shoots down it will also go down in flames. All I know is that this ship is one Buffed Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo away from going BOOM.
Just look at it the Kumari Class is has a total of 9 Tactical Boff abilities what the hell are you going to do with 9 tactical bridge officer abilities on a ship that was designed for cannons.
3 ensign Tac slots and 3 lieutenant Tac slots, common this layout is just screaming, ?KILL ME, I just bought the wrong ship?:(
Comments
Evasive maneuvers with conn doffs, rcs consoles and deutronium surplus and team work pretty much solves that problem (granted the last one needs a pre-made to make it work).
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Blah, blah, blah..Both sides, blah, blah.
Most people who make fun of the people playing KDF play Fed primarily, and slum on the Klingon side when their bored because they've whined on the forums about how they want everything the KDF has, then Craptic folded and gave it to them.
Lets get that straight right off.
As sad as it is that the KDF regularly spanks the Feds in PvP with ships that were originally released when STO launched, just think what would happen if they gave us REAL ships to fight with. Yea, that'd last a day and Craptic would yank them because the Feds would whine so bad.
Its the nature of the beast..
Well, in the Federations case, *****cat...
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Not really. If these people are on a team that are focusing on keeping that escort alive, then you have a team that can focus on killing that escort. Something that happens a lot when I play PvP (which is rare) is a single ship will get surrounded by the whole team and will get completely blitzed.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Who said avoiding, go in guns blazing and when you pass the enemy hit evasive/deutronium turn around and you and your team mates will finish off the topic.
Any semi-compotent premade team will pwn in PvP.
That's true for a Pug, but necccesarily true for a premade.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
There's that too.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I'm just saying, a lot can happen in PvP, and it may be a matter of seconds. You could turn around and finish off that enemy with the boosted turn-around you mentioned, but at the same time you could suddenly have all the other enemies focus exclusively on you, and suddenly you're in trouble (if you're not being blown up in an instant).
And with this escort, it's gonna have a lot of trouble with the latter, even as it excels at the former.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I run into that with my JHAS (DPS oriented, of course). Borg gear healing procs combined with my engineer toon's healing abilities and my fleetmates make it not a problem.
A pug doesn' know one end of a sword from another. A team of fleetmates is another story.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Will be getting the pack for sure!
*holds up knife* Which end do the bullets go in again?
It is a nice looking ship if the incentive for me to buy and use one still existed.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
rofl
*Holds up sword*
This is the thermionic disruptor *points at blade* and this is the time-space transmuter *points at hilt*.
It's a special KIND of sword!
*ahem*
Back on topic, this ship is not overpowered. That reduction in survivability will make a huge difference. In all actuality, at some point one of the healer ship is gonna suffer and stop healing the escort and heal themselves. Also, what happens if there are more than one escort?
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
The Vesta ships got 3 different costume options, which is 2 more than the Odyssey got.
I'd say that's way better than a unique bridge, since you actually see your ship a lot, instead of the near-useless interior that you might visit once a month just to run around in circles doing nothing.
I count the Vesta ahead of the Odyssey on this one.
But they get the advantage of 1 more forward weapon.
To make them fall in line with other escorts, either 1 forward weapons slot needs to be removed, or at least the 5th slot must only accept the special wing cannons (hoping they aren't completely crazy).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Teamwork makes the dreamwork (as do the appropriate powers, consoles, batteries etc).
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Exactly. A good team will not just be able to keep one of these alive, but be able to kill one as well.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Very true, but to say this thing somehow suffers from decreased survivibility considering all that is avalible in this game to increase said survivibility makes no sense. Any compotent person will have more big an issue surviving in this thing than in any other escort.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
changing the ensign into universal is more like it... it's an escort after all.
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
Really Devs would it have killed you guys to have an escort on the fed side to go past a 17 turn rate maybe 18 since its a glass cannon in all.
Yeah, what's with this? 85 crew? Really? Sure it's an escort, but don't ships get bigger as time goes on? Will be interesting to see what size this is when it comes out. The Patrol Escort has a crew of 200.
Either way, looks good, though I was hoping for a Lieutenant Commander Engineering Slot for the Engineering version. I may have to rethink my purchase.
Yah, the stats really suprised me, I was expecting something more along the lines of a destroyer.
Really wish they had kept the Boff scheme along the lines of what was done with the Odyssey and the Vesta.
Can't wait for the Jemmy bug vs Kumari war to start.
I was wrong.
Now we have a ship, that has
CMD Tac
Ltc Tac
Lt Tac
Really? Lt Tac also?
Let's forget all the rest of the things going on with the ship in question, and just zero in on the main issue:
Adding "MOAR" low level tactical stations is about the least useful thing that could possibly be given to a ship - and yet, here we have it!
Cryptic has basically outdone themselves.
Fleet Defiant? Still haven't purchased it.
Fleet MVAE? Nope, no sale here.
Fleet HEC? Refuse to buy a ship with 3 tactical Ensigns.
Tactical Kumari: See the above, but now actually even more hilariously bad.
Throwing MOAR TAC at a ship doesn't make it MOAR effective.
It makes it less effective, and to be frank it just looks ridiculous.
Maybe there is some super special ensign boff power revamp on the horizon I'm aware of, or maybe yet another escort has been saddled with an atrocious BOFF layout.
At least we have the Sci and Eng variants I guess?
Dear mods: This post was a thread created about the issue of too many tactical stations on ALL escorts and is not specifically about the Kumari. This post does not belong here.
1. The Wing Cannons have a higher base DPS than Mk XII DHCs, but their energy drain is even higher (15). They have a very slow rate of fire and a cooldown between shots; they're essentially like "super" heavy cannons. They're listed as having [DMG]X4, but that's just to give you a ballpark figure, since there isn't really anything directly comparable. They're really more like an entirely new weapon type.
I'm aware Accuracy is more popular among most players than raw damage, but damage was thematically appropriate for these cannons.
2. Yes, you could slot all DHCs up front, but you wouldn't be able to benefit from the console abilities, since the consoles only function on the Wing Cannons.
3. The Wing Cannon Platforms deployed by the Engineering ship's console will only fire when you fire your Wing Cannons. (Yes, they're a lot like Option in Gradius.) They also deal less damage than a single normal weapon slot each, and they're destructible, with health comparable to fighters. If they're destroyed, the console has a 180 second cooldown, so you'd have to wait to re-deploy them. So, it's not really like you have 7 Fore Weapon slots. In testing, we've found that they're useful when you can keep them alive, but in PvP they can be very easily neutralized.
4. When the Wing Cannon Platforms use one of your cannon abilities as a result of your 3 piece set bonus, they still don't hit as hard as a player version of that ability. Hitting a target with three Overload attacks is still awesome, but it's not 3x the damage of the player version.
5. The Andorian Phasers (other than the Wing Cannons) are standard phasers in terms of stats. They're just color tinted to look appropriate for an Andorian ship. The ones on the Dilithium store are MK XI Purple quality, similar to other Diltihium stores. They're [Acc]x2[Dmg]. We may release more variants on these eventually, but probably not in the immediate future.
6. The "glass cannon" comment on the blog refers to both the bridge officer layouts (which do not allow for much self-healing, especially the Tactical variant) and the fact the ship does not have the Fleet bonus to Hull or Shields.
Just look at it, its hull is TRIBBLE, , its crew complement is practically nonexistent, its Boff layout is nothing to brag about and as for the 5 forward weapon slots, have you seen the pathetic turn rate it has, my BoP can fly circles around that thing, and by the time the ship turns around I will have cloaked and left him with his Buffs powered up and no one to shoot at.
This ship is nothing but BoP food, talk about an easy target. Sure it can kill maybe one target, but for every target it shoots down it will also go down in flames. All I know is that this ship is one Buffed Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo away from going BOOM.
Just look at it the Kumari Class is has a total of 9 Tactical Boff abilities what the hell are you going to do with 9 tactical bridge officer abilities on a ship that was designed for cannons.
3 ensign Tac slots and 3 lieutenant Tac slots, common this layout is just screaming, ?KILL ME, I just bought the wrong ship?:(
ROFL:D
Doesn't the best escort in the game currently (the bug ship) only have 50 crew?
Isn't Crew a pretty meh mechanic anyways?