I agree that the content is woefully poor, and this is due in part to the limitation of the engine. Things that should have high variance don't at all. For example; in "Everything Old is New" something that they could have done with this (since it's a time travel episode) is secondary encounter; a smarter Spock NPC different interactions with each new temporal incursion. Yet nothing has been done to make the episode more than what it was. Or how about a synergy reaction if one is flying a constitution class ship from the zen store?
The fact is that the content is lacking, and the storylines are so predictable that after one or two replays the content is old.
Adventure zones are just as problematic. While all MMOs have grinding, these zones and the way the rewards are presented make the grinding necessary for the game. This is absolutely stupid.
As for fixing the STFs because of the AFKrs, the simplest answer is to redo the STFs to make them playable on one's own or in a group. So you can choose who you go in with as a team.
On a different note: I've also canceled my subscription. I have no interest in paying for a game that has Devs who don't listen to their players.
A: the 'TRIBBLE' only lasted a week
B: Fleet Marks were added in other places, in far greater numbers than those removed
C: they release promos and sales every now and then, regardless of what's going on in the game; this one is no different.
In other words, just get over it; it's not worth getting upset about.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
A: the 'TRIBBLE' only lasted a week
B: Fleet Marks were added in other places, in far greater numbers than those removed
C: they release promos and sales every now and then, regardless of what's going on in the game; this one is no different.
In other words, just get over it; it's not worth getting upset about.
The is far from being from being settled to satisfaction. If you are content, good for you. I am not. If you had bothered to read all of the concerns listed here, you would have seen that. And you would have seen that I'm not alone.
Don't presume to speak for me about what is worth getting upset about. If you are happy with the current state of the game, then you have no place in this discussion. You are free to post what you wish where you wish on here but don't just pop in and say "all is good, get over it". It's not.
The fixes that you claim that have solved the problem, haven't. Take the time to read the posts and you will see that.
The is far from being from being settled to satisfaction. If you are content, good for you. I am not. If you had bothered to read all of the concerns listed here, you would have seen that. And you would have seen that I'm not alone.
Don't presume to speak for me about what is worth getting upset about. If you are happy with the current state of the game, then you have no place in this discussion. You are free to post what you wish where you wish on here but don't just pop in and say "all is good, get over it". It's not.
The fixes that you claim that have solved the problem, haven't. Take the time to read the posts and you will see that.
I'll say this: somewhere between 70% and 90% of the comments in this thread happened before the addition of more Fleet Marks. And I'll say it again: the added Fleet Marks far outnumber the ones removed.
So I feel there isn't a problem, and I feel you're simply holding onto an illogical reason to dislike Cryptic, PWE... or whatever it is you have issues with. Or possibly you have absurdly high expectations of what is deemed satisfactory.
But clearly you will be not swayed, so I'll leave it at that.
To be honest the above poster is out of touch with the root issues. The problem wasn't lack off FM's the root problem is Cryptic delivering systems that are not balanced.
Thats's it in a nutshell with regards to currencies.
He needs to read post 2311 and 2700.
Just read your 2700 post.
I understand that's been the case since ever, but I do not feel it is an issue, personally I simply have no problem with systems being rushed/bugged/or filled with exploits that require more effort to remove later
I know it sounds incredulous, but I mean it.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The is far from being from being settled to satisfaction. If you are content, good for you. I am not. If you had bothered to read all of the concerns listed here, you would have seen that. And you would have seen that I'm not alone.
Don't presume to speak for me about what is worth getting upset about. If you are happy with the current state of the game, then you have no place in this discussion. You are free to post what you wish where you wish on here but don't just pop in and say "all is good, get over it". It's not.
The fixes that you claim that have solved the problem, haven't. Take the time to read the posts and you will see that.
To be honest the above poster is out of touch with the root issues. The problem wasn't lack off FM's the root problem is Cryptic delivering systems that are not balanced. This is why players continue to apply fixes to broken systems like Dilithium by exploiting loopholes in the games reward systems.
Thats's it in a nutshell with regards to currencies.
I understand that's been the case since ever, but I do not feel it is an issue, personally I simply have no problem with systems being rushed/bugged/or filled with exploits that require more effort to remove later
I know it sounds incredulous, but I mean it.
For sure and I'm sure there are a number of people who feel that way and just enjoy the game for what it is,
People like me however cannot, so it really just comes down with what we're happy to put up with and on that point we diverge.
I like the honesty though it's refreshing and I understand it too, especially looking at how small Cryptic is a s developer and how obviously difficult it is for them to do this franchise the justice it deserves because they have to stick to a cookie cutter approach to the game as they believe it's the most efficient way to use the resources they have.
I personally think however they could a hell of a lot to improve even with the current staff numbers and man hours.
For sure and I'm sure there are a number of people who feel that way and just enjoy the game for what it is,
People like me however cannot, so it really just comes down with what we're happy to put up with and on that point we diverge.
I like the honesty though it's refreshing and I understand it too, especially looking at how small Cryptic is a s developer and how obviously difficult it is for them to do this franchise the justice it deserves because they have to stick to a cookie cutter approach to the game as they believe it's the most efficient way to use the resources they have.
I personally think however they could a hell of a lot to improve even with the current staff numbers and man hours.
If I read your posts correctly what you want is basically top quality content you don't have to replay much to achieve your unreasonable goals considering the little time you can invest in the game. All those who have time to play almost everyday are of course "unemployed".
I'm really fond of your logic. What you need isn't an mmo though, it's rather solo games you can play whenever you want with a very high quality repetable content. I'd advise you RTS. These should be games for you. I played that for many years and still have fun with that when i find some time.
What you could also consider for a few minutes is:
- having lower expectations. Games can't be build around your own needs. We've been toled many times that the game is run by metrics, and the average player is supposed to play 3-4 times a day for 4h sessions. Consequently the game will be most enjoyable for these players.
- You can't expect having all your starbase projects running constantly with a very small casual fleet. Reasons: see above. Being in a small fleet is a choice no one should be blamed for, but no one should blame cryptic for the choices he made either. Mega guilds always had an edge whatever the MMO is and this isn't going to change because Mr Thisisoverlord has awesome ideas about mmo design so that games can adapt to his needs.
- Very few MMOs are casual-player friendly, because the less time you spend on a game, the less you get to see what's in the cash store, and the less you feel the need to buy stuff improving your game experience. Casuals can fill instances pretty well but in no way they are a reliable source of income. If you're an exception then it's great for STO but don't think everyone is or should be like you please.
If I read your posts correctly what you want is basically top quality content you don't have to replay much to achieve your unreasonable goals considering the little time you can invest in the game. All those who have time to play almost everyday are of course "unemployed".
Wrong I want top quality content I can replay and enjoy with friends, that will offer realistic progression to someone who can't log on 24/7 and can only do a few hours or so over the weekend, Season 6 was fine for me because I could log on for a bunch of hours and get a chance to get end game rewards without being time gated or having massive sinks to contend with. Furthermore my fleet was relatively healthy and growing.
Secondly, those that can play 24/7 are either unemployed or annuitants in the main, I find it intriguing that you mentioned that I stated unemployed but failed to mention that I also stated annuitants, either you don't know what the second is or, you were intentionally trying to spin what I said to be a negative or bigoted statement about members of the playerbase which clearly was not. Well done letting yourself down by engaging in some poor and frankly obvious spin. :cool:
I'm really fond of your logic. What you need isn't an mmo though, it's rather solo games you can play whenever you want with a very high quality repetable content. I'd advise you RTS. These should be games for you. I played that for many years and still have fun with that when i find some time.
What you could also consider for a few minutes is:
- having lower expectations. Games can't be build around your own needs. We've been toled many times that the game is run by metrics, and the average player is supposed to play 3-4 times a day for 4h sessions. Consequently the game will be most enjoyable for these players.
Actually no, firstly assuming I've never played an RTS is rather odd, secondly perhaps you would at least attempt to be more rational and go for a single player RPG comparison like say Kotor, or Neverwinter Nights. However I can see that you've put little thought in this post.
I think maybe you may have in your haste to blurt out this post got the figures wrong, 3-4 times a day for 4hr sessions is 12 to 16 hours a day perhaps this is some kind of Freudian slip and instead of mentioning the DStahl(tm) minimum time requirements which would be 1, 4hr session a day you put in your own playing habits.
- You can't expect having all your starbase projects running constantly with a very small casual fleet. Reasons: see above. Being in a small fleet is a choice no one should be blamed for, but no one should blame cryptic for the choices he made either. Mega guilds always had an edge whatever the MMO is and this isn't going to change because Mr Thisisoverlord has awesome ideas about mmo design so that games can adapt to his needs.
Actually being in a small fleet isn't an issue and in-fact wasn't an issue in Season 6 things were going quite swimmingly, however seriously unbalanced systems drove many of my fleet members away from the game or into bigger fleets. Even this wouldn't be so bad if I could recruit other players but no one wants to be in a T2 or T3 fleet and have to do work they all want to join T4's and up these days. There is no incentive to do otherwise.
Clearly you haven't played that many MMO's I use DDO as an example a lot because I play it and small guilds there get bonuses for being small. I'm sure there are countless other MMO's that have good system for encouraging small guilds which are more often than not way more fun to be a part of than mega large ones.
You seem to believe I am the only one voicing these concerns, and therefore seek to disparage or marginalize the people other than myself who also share similar concerns and conclusions.
- Very few MMOs are casual-player friendly, because the less time you spend on a game, the less you get to see what's in the cash store, and the less you feel the need to buy stuff improving your game experience. Casuals can fill instances pretty well but in no way they are a reliable source of income. If you're an exception then it's great for STO but don't think everyone is or should be like you please.
This last comment is hilarious, the point is in Season 6 I player for 6+ hours every weekend and even a few hours of an evening during the week, because it was fun, this is not the case now, however what the Season 7 debacle highlighted for me was an underlying pattern now confirmed by the development team itself of rushed and unfit systems and code and a lack of repeatable enjoyable content.
You know I've played DDO for 3 years and I only have 4 characters at Level 17 I haven't even reached my first Epic level yet, but the game is fresh and the content you have to repeat is fun and there is so much of it you have a real choice about what you want to repeat. Making out that MMO's aren't for me or people like me who don't have the time to put hours in everyday is exaggeration at best and hypocritical from someone who is attempting to castigate me for excluding the way others play above my own habits. The truth is there are no doubt plenty of MMO's out there that attract and retain the patronage of people who have a similar lifestyle to myself it's just a shame for me that one of the Franchises that I truly love has an MMO that simply doesn't live up to the features and content other MMO's have.
Regardless of all this I think we can both agree that the rushed systems, patches and updates that cause imbalance and bugs in the game is something that has become a pattern of behaviour for Cryptic and does not benefit the game or it's players, regardless of what you think of my personal playing habits those things effect all players especially the bugs and much of it could be solved by better internal practices and interaction with Tribble testers.
It's great if you can play when you want whenever you want, it's also great if you have supreme knowledge of the game and know how to get everything you need in an hour of so of play, but don't think everyone is or should be like you.:)
I found it disappointing that you didn't wish to attempt to engage me in any meaningful discussion.
Phyrexians alternative point of view at least offered content that was worth reading and considering.
Heh , that's funny because I've heard a different interpretation to this sale ... , as someone has suggested that the Andorian whale ships (look @ their front) ain't selling so well .
Too much grind for so ridiculous reward content.
Cost of everything is way beyhond the line.
This lead to a non-enjoyable grindfest game type.
Cryptic : your game in its actual state is NOT FUN for long time player.
That is why so many people quit after few months.
Very few stay more than few months.
So many much more enjoyable games out there.
Heh , that's funny because I've heard a different interpretation to this sale ... , as someone has suggested that the Andorian whale ships (look @ their front) ain't selling so well .
Two weeks in and they are still debugging the hell out of them.. I've seen two in-game so far TWO.
One of my friends has the set and has severe buyer's remorse.
This ship was highly anticipated, for a very very long time and Cryptic released in an utterly broken state at the height of a player revolt.
I for one have been spending far far less time in game, I haven't since last week and I don't anticipate participating more... until Cryptic has a major attitude adjustment. Certain things need to be fixed. Dan's attitude twords the players needs a total 180. And quality needs to improve 10000 percent.
At this point however I am going to say based on past performance "ain't gonna happen."
Two weeks in and they are still debugging the hell out of them.. I've seen two in-game so far TWO.
One of my friends has the set and has severe buyer's remorse.
This ship was highly anticipated, for a very very long time and Cryptic released in an utterly broken state at the height of a player revolt.
I for one have been spending far far less time in game, I haven't since last week and I don't anticipate participating more... until Cryptic has a major attitude adjustment. Certain things need to be fixed. Dan's attitude twords the players needs a total 180. And quality needs to improve 10000 percent.
At this point however I am going to say based on past performance "ain't gonna happen."
You've seen Two you've seen more than me as I've seen 0. Asking Cryptic and Stahl to change there attitude will be like asking a leopard to change it's spots it ain't gonna happen
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Two weeks in and they are still debugging the hell out of them.. I've seen two in-game so far TWO.
One of my friends has the set and has severe buyer's remorse.
This ship was highly anticipated, for a very very long time and Cryptic released in an utterly broken state at the height of a player revolt.
I for one have been spending far far less time in game, I haven't since last week and I don't anticipate participating more... until Cryptic has a major attitude adjustment. Certain things need to be fixed. Dan's attitude twords the players needs a total 180. And quality needs to improve 10000 percent.
At this point however I am going to say based on past performance "ain't gonna happen."
never buy a car without a test drive
i guess putting new ships to test on a test server before live launch doesnt compute to them >_>
unless its cheap enough i wont get one without being able to test it
i wish they would make all of the ships free on tribble server so we could try them out before buying on holodeck. til then ill stick to ships off the EC exchange
yea i know they want the "buzz" of the launch of new ships, but they keep getting bad buzz. they burn players often enough and soon no one will buy new ships for fear of getting another lemon
fool me once shame on u, fool me twice shame on me
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?" -General Chang
You've seen Two you've seen more than me as I've seen 0. Asking Cryptic and Stahl to change there attitude will be like asking a leopard to change it's spots it ain't gonna happen
I'm not sure where either of you have been playing but I've seen tons of them. Seems like every STF I've been in has 1-2 of them, most Starbase 24's have at least 5, and I got stuck in a gorn minefield with 4 of them.
I have read this thread every day since it was posted, I understand your reasons behind the changes but I feel, as many others do, that there is major disconnect. I know that I don't post a lot, mostly due to the fact that the point I was going to make was stated.
Here is my take, as I see it.
On February 13, Task Force Spectre first Fleet to hit tier 5 Starbase
On February 14, Patch makes changes to reward system
Increasing Dilithium and Energy Credits rewards
Decreasing Fleet Marks rewards
This creates a backlash, many players state that Fleet Marks rewards are too low, current reward levels greatly favoring large fleets.
On February 14, This thread was started. Once again, Dastahl made the claim that all the metrics so that fleets need more Dilithium, but still not willing to increase the refinement rate. I still don't see how more Dilithium ore will help if I can earn more than 8,000 doing my daily grinds.
On February 19, Dastahl returns with changes inbound. Timeline is soon, "Thursday" or May...... wait and see.
On February 21, Patch increases and adds Fleets Marks to may missions. This made many of us ask why not put them in with the last patch or wait to change the foundry mission till this patch.
I am a day one vet, with a lifetime. I also run small fleet, about 7 active members. We just leveled to a tier 2 Starbase. Doing this is too much like a job, not to mention the work needed on our embassy or our Klingon Fleet. We're not looking for a handout, and we shouldn't have to join a large faceless fleet. These guys are my friends, we like the fact that our fleet is, ours. There are many larger fleets but this one is ours.
Like a stated in the beginning, this how I saw these events.
As soon as a fleet hit tier 5, they had to slow fleet progression. Of course large fleets need more Dilithium. Players will only give some of their 8,000 per day because there many things that need Dilithium other their fleet. But, there is only one place to spend fleet marks. Fleet change is needed.
As many people have stated, there are some very good ideas on how to help all fleets. As I see it there are three "sizes" of fleets: under 20 active players, 50ish active players and over 100 active players.
I only wish Cryptic would care enough to start a round table with fleets of different sizes to address changes that are needed. Randomly pick a few fleets from each tier size to improve the fleet system in the game.
I'm not sure where either of you have been playing but I've seen tons of them. Seems like every STF I've been in has 1-2 of them, most Starbase 24's have at least 5, and I got stuck in a gorn minefield with 4 of them.
Yeah, some people have to get a grip on reality. The Andorian ship is far more popular than- lets say for ex. the Vesta was when it was released.
I've seen tons of them as well, atm looks like every 4th or 5th ship I see is Andorian escort.
I only wish Cryptic would care enough to start a round table with fleets of different sizes to address changes that are needed. Randomly pick a few fleets from each tier size to improve the fleet system in the game.
That, at the very least would be a start.
Fleet issues aren't the only elephant in the room though - Cryptic's fast-becoming-cyclic policies of removing in-game currencies and then having to hastily and clumsily patch them back in is eroding what little trust and goodwill a large number of this community have left.
This game won't survive as a costly full-on Asian grinder MMO - and that's exactly where it's headed - all you have to do is look at what Season 7 attempted to remove and what was added as 'content' to see what the roadmap for STO is.
Since the change, I personally went from getting about 300 Fms a day with various missions, and maybe 1 foundry mission.. to getting about 800 a day with the HUGE increase in rewards on all FM maps. This was a huge +++ to Cryptic and Dan.. IMO.
This change has greatly increased the number of players in the Deferi zone , the Nukara zone, and all Fleet events. Heck, the zones give you 72 FMs per hard completed a day.. you can finish all 3 in the time it took you to get through one long lousy Foundry mission. 60 < 216 .. which would you rather????
Flame away but I am right, this was a good decision. We are playing an MMORPG, not a RPG.
I am a day one vet, with a lifetime. I also run small fleet, about 7 active members. We just leveled to a tier 2 Starbase. Doing this is too much like a job, not to mention the work needed on our embassy or our Klingon Fleet. We're not looking for a handout, and we shouldn't have to join a large faceless fleet. These guys are my friends, we like the fact that our fleet is, ours. There are many larger fleets but this one is ours.
Since the change, I personally went from getting about 300 Fms a day with various missions, and maybe 1 foundry mission.. to getting about 800 a day with the HUGE increase in rewards on all FM maps. This was a huge +++ to Cryptic and Dan.. IMO.
Firstly, this thread is no longer about Fleet Marks alone, the imbalance in the Fleet Marks system that essentially made it a broken system was just a symptom for a far wider rot which comes down to Cryptic consistently rushing systems and content that is bugged, broken or unbalanced.
The change only happened because the players attempted to fix the broken FM system themselves by using a loophole in the Foundry rewards, one that may I add was put in there by Cryptic, why on earth it was a 30 minute repeatable missions I don't know.
Either way the change was needed, but I don't think they should be receiving any plaudits for offering an unbalanced currency system and then eventually when sufficiently moved out of their lackadaisical pattern of behaviour come up with the bright idea of immediatly shutting down the player driven fix and waiting a whole week to do the simple task of spreading FM's to other parts of the game.
It was horribly handled and whilst on the FM front we eventually got a pretty good solution the way it was done and the fact that it was only done because the players essentially forced Cryptics hand does not fill me with confidence especially as this was not the first time their amateurish behaviour has led to players having to pressure them into changes, I.e. Loot drops and Dilithium in STF's.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
Since the change, I personally went from getting about 300 Fms a day with various missions, and maybe 1 foundry mission.. to getting about 800 a day with the HUGE increase in rewards on all FM maps. This was a huge +++ to Cryptic and Dan.. IMO.
This change has greatly increased the number of players in the Deferi zone , the Nukara zone, and all Fleet events. Heck, the zones give you 72 FMs per hard completed a day.. you can finish all 3 in the time it took you to get through one long lousy Foundry mission. 60 < 216 .. which would you rather????
Flame away but I am right, this was a good decision. We are playing an MMORPG, not a RPG.
The CDF (Cryptic destruction Force:D) will complain till the end of time.
But like I always says...As long as people are complaining their still playing. :cool:
Since the change, I personally went from getting about 300 Fms a day with various missions, and maybe 1 foundry mission.. to getting about 800 a day with the HUGE increase in rewards on all FM maps. This was a huge +++ to Cryptic and Dan.. IMO.
This change has greatly increased the number of players in the Deferi zone , the Nukara zone, and all Fleet events. Heck, the zones give you 72 FMs per hard completed a day.. you can finish all 3 in the time it took you to get through one long lousy Foundry mission. 60 < 216 .. which would you rather????
Flame away but I am right, this was a good decision. We are playing an MMORPG, not a RPG.
Did you even read the thread? The discussion is not about Fleet Marks any more.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Did you even read the thread? The discussion is not about Fleet Marks any more.
Then someone needs to start a new thread as the title of the thread is now mis-leading.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Then someone needs to start a new thread as the title of the thread is now mis-leading.
thisisoverlord is already working on that. See the purple text in his post above.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
thisisoverlord is already working on that. See the purple text in his post above.
I have read his text (and this thread) and he seems unwilling to do that as it has been suggested since the original topic and reason for this thread in the first place has been answered and iterated to the point the original issue and situation for this thread have changed.
If he has the support, the new thread he makes regarding the issues he wants addressed should reach similar 'threadnaught' status in short order.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
But like I always says...As long as people are complaining their still playing. :cool:
Not the case for me, my energies are devoted elsewhere now, partly on moving forwards with a more organized player driven critique and oversight of the game.
:cool:
I have read his text (and this thread) and he seems unwilling to do that as it has been suggested since the original topic and reason for this thread in the first place has been answered and iterated to the point the original issue and situation for this thread have changed.
If he has the support, the new thread he makes regarding the issues he wants addressed should reach similar 'threadnaught' status in short order.
As the purple text states I am waiting for the end of this week before I move onto the consultation stage with other players, I am hoping however for us to do a lot more than just create a new thread.
Furthermore it is not up to me whether this thread gets closed or not, that is a matter for the moderators of this forum.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
I have read his text (and this thread) and he seems unwilling to do that as it has been suggested since the original topic and reason for this thread in the first place has been answered and iterated to the point the original issue and situation for this thread have changed.
If he has the support, the new thread he makes regarding the issues he wants addressed should reach similar 'threadnaught' status in short order.
I'm not sure why wanting to wait a week or so for players to PM with constructive ideas before starting a "roundtable discussion" makes you unwilling to start a thread.
Give it time, no one wnats to jump into something without clear focus.
We must seperate legitimate complaints from just plain haters.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Since the change, I personally went from getting about 300 Fms a day with various missions, and maybe 1 foundry mission.. to getting about 800 a day with the HUGE increase in rewards on all FM maps. This was a huge +++ to Cryptic and Dan.. IMO.
This change has greatly increased the number of players in the Deferi zone , the Nukara zone, and all Fleet events. Heck, the zones give you 72 FMs per hard completed a day.. you can finish all 3 in the time it took you to get through one long lousy Foundry mission. 60 < 216 .. which would you rather????
Flame away but I am right, this was a good decision. We are playing an MMORPG, not a RPG.
Good morning STO! It is people like this that only see the struck match and not the forest that's ablaze around them. The fleet mark removal was the struck match but the game is burning down around us. The problem isn't merely about fleet marks any longer. Please just pick a few random pages and actually READ THEM before making a comment like this.
We (as Star Trek fans) are watching an IP be abused, a game turned into a horrid grind-fest, and the current owners laughing at us all the way to the bank. Some of us are boycotting this injustice in various ways, I have barely spent a dime on this game since Season 7 hit.
Anyway...Power to the people! Keep fighting the Good Fight!
Good morning STO! It is people like this that only see the struck match and not the forest that's ablaze around them. The fleet mark removal was the struck match but the game is burning down around us. The problem isn't merely about fleet marks any longer. Please just pick a few random pages and actually READ THEM before making a comment like this.
We (as Star Trek fans) are watching an IP be abused, a game turned into a horrid grind-fest, and the current owners laughing at us all the way to the bank. Some of us are boycotting this injustice in various ways, I have barely spent a dime on this game since Season 7 hit.
Anyway...Power to the people! Keep fighting the Good Fight!
And you really think that the game is worse off than it was pre-season 6? Dilithium wasn't even a useful currency, the extent of level 50 content was running the 6 STFs over and over again for the chance of possibly getting something useful with a bunch of empty fleet actions sitting ignored.
Was the whole thing with the starbase and how it works poorly managed? Of course it was. They also made stupid decisions in what they were going to cut out from different missions at the beginning of Season 7. But at least there's actually things to do now with some long-term goals. Sure not everything is perfect, far from it, but at least there is actually some diversity of things to do! They might not have done it well, but there at least is so much more end-game content than there was before.
And you really think that the game is worse off than it was pre-season 6? Dilithium wasn't even a useful currency, the extent of level 50 content was running the 6 STFs over and over again for the chance of possibly getting something useful with a bunch of empty fleet actions sitting ignored.
Was the whole thing with the starbase and how it works poorly managed? Of course it was. They also made stupid decisions in what they were going to cut out from different missions at the beginning of Season 7. But at least there's actually things to do now with some long-term goals. Sure not everything is perfect, far from it, but at least there is actually some diversity of things to do! They might not have done it well, but there at least is so much more end-game content than there was before.
There isn't actually much new end-game content at all and in fact the 3 ground STF's are pretty much mothballed as very few people now play them.
What they did was to attach rewards to parts of the game that people weren't playing in order to try to get them to play that content. The content itself is still boring but people queue for it now because there is at least some reward for doing it whereas before there simply wasn't.
The reputation systems didn't add much new content they just repackaged old content and bolted on a few extra's in return for awful time-gating and dilithium sinks that have have fundamentally changed the nature of the exchange to the benefit of cryptics bottom line on Zen sales.
Comments
I agree that the content is woefully poor, and this is due in part to the limitation of the engine. Things that should have high variance don't at all. For example; in "Everything Old is New" something that they could have done with this (since it's a time travel episode) is secondary encounter; a smarter Spock NPC different interactions with each new temporal incursion. Yet nothing has been done to make the episode more than what it was. Or how about a synergy reaction if one is flying a constitution class ship from the zen store?
The fact is that the content is lacking, and the storylines are so predictable that after one or two replays the content is old.
Adventure zones are just as problematic. While all MMOs have grinding, these zones and the way the rewards are presented make the grinding necessary for the game. This is absolutely stupid.
As for fixing the STFs because of the AFKrs, the simplest answer is to redo the STFs to make them playable on one's own or in a group. So you can choose who you go in with as a team.
On a different note: I've also canceled my subscription. I have no interest in paying for a game that has Devs who don't listen to their players.
Got screwed, now they want us to pay them.
A: the 'TRIBBLE' only lasted a week
B: Fleet Marks were added in other places, in far greater numbers than those removed
C: they release promos and sales every now and then, regardless of what's going on in the game; this one is no different.
In other words, just get over it; it's not worth getting upset about.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The is far from being from being settled to satisfaction. If you are content, good for you. I am not. If you had bothered to read all of the concerns listed here, you would have seen that. And you would have seen that I'm not alone.
Don't presume to speak for me about what is worth getting upset about. If you are happy with the current state of the game, then you have no place in this discussion. You are free to post what you wish where you wish on here but don't just pop in and say "all is good, get over it". It's not.
The fixes that you claim that have solved the problem, haven't. Take the time to read the posts and you will see that.
So I feel there isn't a problem, and I feel you're simply holding onto an illogical reason to dislike Cryptic, PWE... or whatever it is you have issues with. Or possibly you have absurdly high expectations of what is deemed satisfactory.
But clearly you will be not swayed, so I'll leave it at that. Just read your 2700 post.
I understand that's been the case since ever, but I do not feel it is an issue, personally
I know it sounds incredulous, but I mean it.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
To be honest the above poster is out of touch with the root issues. The problem wasn't lack off FM's the root problem is Cryptic delivering systems that are not balanced. This is why players continue to apply fixes to broken systems like Dilithium by exploiting loopholes in the games reward systems.
Thats's it in a nutshell with regards to currencies.
He needs to read post 2311 and 2700.
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For sure and I'm sure there are a number of people who feel that way and just enjoy the game for what it is,
People like me however cannot, so it really just comes down with what we're happy to put up with and on that point we diverge.
I like the honesty though it's refreshing and I understand it too, especially looking at how small Cryptic is a s developer and how obviously difficult it is for them to do this franchise the justice it deserves because they have to stick to a cookie cutter approach to the game as they believe it's the most efficient way to use the resources they have.
I personally think however they could a hell of a lot to improve even with the current staff numbers and man hours.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
If I read your posts correctly what you want is basically top quality content you don't have to replay much to achieve your unreasonable goals considering the little time you can invest in the game. All those who have time to play almost everyday are of course "unemployed".
I'm really fond of your logic. What you need isn't an mmo though, it's rather solo games you can play whenever you want with a very high quality repetable content. I'd advise you RTS. These should be games for you. I played that for many years and still have fun with that when i find some time.
What you could also consider for a few minutes is:
- having lower expectations. Games can't be build around your own needs. We've been toled many times that the game is run by metrics, and the average player is supposed to play 3-4 times a day for 4h sessions. Consequently the game will be most enjoyable for these players.
- You can't expect having all your starbase projects running constantly with a very small casual fleet. Reasons: see above. Being in a small fleet is a choice no one should be blamed for, but no one should blame cryptic for the choices he made either. Mega guilds always had an edge whatever the MMO is and this isn't going to change because Mr Thisisoverlord has awesome ideas about mmo design so that games can adapt to his needs.
- Very few MMOs are casual-player friendly, because the less time you spend on a game, the less you get to see what's in the cash store, and the less you feel the need to buy stuff improving your game experience. Casuals can fill instances pretty well but in no way they are a reliable source of income. If you're an exception then it's great for STO but don't think everyone is or should be like you please.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Wrong I want top quality content I can replay and enjoy with friends, that will offer realistic progression to someone who can't log on 24/7 and can only do a few hours or so over the weekend, Season 6 was fine for me because I could log on for a bunch of hours and get a chance to get end game rewards without being time gated or having massive sinks to contend with. Furthermore my fleet was relatively healthy and growing.
Secondly, those that can play 24/7 are either unemployed or annuitants in the main, I find it intriguing that you mentioned that I stated unemployed but failed to mention that I also stated annuitants, either you don't know what the second is or, you were intentionally trying to spin what I said to be a negative or bigoted statement about members of the playerbase which clearly was not. Well done letting yourself down by engaging in some poor and frankly obvious spin. :cool:
Actually no, firstly assuming I've never played an RTS is rather odd, secondly perhaps you would at least attempt to be more rational and go for a single player RPG comparison like say Kotor, or Neverwinter Nights. However I can see that you've put little thought in this post.
I think maybe you may have in your haste to blurt out this post got the figures wrong, 3-4 times a day for 4hr sessions is 12 to 16 hours a day perhaps this is some kind of Freudian slip and instead of mentioning the DStahl(tm) minimum time requirements which would be 1, 4hr session a day you put in your own playing habits.
Actually being in a small fleet isn't an issue and in-fact wasn't an issue in Season 6 things were going quite swimmingly, however seriously unbalanced systems drove many of my fleet members away from the game or into bigger fleets. Even this wouldn't be so bad if I could recruit other players but no one wants to be in a T2 or T3 fleet and have to do work they all want to join T4's and up these days. There is no incentive to do otherwise.
Clearly you haven't played that many MMO's I use DDO as an example a lot because I play it and small guilds there get bonuses for being small. I'm sure there are countless other MMO's that have good system for encouraging small guilds which are more often than not way more fun to be a part of than mega large ones.
You seem to believe I am the only one voicing these concerns, and therefore seek to disparage or marginalize the people other than myself who also share similar concerns and conclusions.
This last comment is hilarious, the point is in Season 6 I player for 6+ hours every weekend and even a few hours of an evening during the week, because it was fun, this is not the case now, however what the Season 7 debacle highlighted for me was an underlying pattern now confirmed by the development team itself of rushed and unfit systems and code and a lack of repeatable enjoyable content.
You know I've played DDO for 3 years and I only have 4 characters at Level 17 I haven't even reached my first Epic level yet, but the game is fresh and the content you have to repeat is fun and there is so much of it you have a real choice about what you want to repeat. Making out that MMO's aren't for me or people like me who don't have the time to put hours in everyday is exaggeration at best and hypocritical from someone who is attempting to castigate me for excluding the way others play above my own habits. The truth is there are no doubt plenty of MMO's out there that attract and retain the patronage of people who have a similar lifestyle to myself it's just a shame for me that one of the Franchises that I truly love has an MMO that simply doesn't live up to the features and content other MMO's have.
Regardless of all this I think we can both agree that the rushed systems, patches and updates that cause imbalance and bugs in the game is something that has become a pattern of behaviour for Cryptic and does not benefit the game or it's players, regardless of what you think of my personal playing habits those things effect all players especially the bugs and much of it could be solved by better internal practices and interaction with Tribble testers.
It's great if you can play when you want whenever you want, it's also great if you have supreme knowledge of the game and know how to get everything you need in an hour of so of play, but don't think everyone is or should be like you.:)
I found it disappointing that you didn't wish to attempt to engage me in any meaningful discussion.
Phyrexians alternative point of view at least offered content that was worth reading and considering.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Heh , that's funny because I've heard a different interpretation to this sale ... , as someone has suggested that the Andorian whale ships (look @ their front) ain't selling so well .
+1 again to this thread
Too much grind for so ridiculous reward content.
Cost of everything is way beyhond the line.
This lead to a non-enjoyable grindfest game type.
Cryptic : your game in its actual state is NOT FUN for long time player.
That is why so many people quit after few months.
Very few stay more than few months.
So many much more enjoyable games out there.
Two weeks in and they are still debugging the hell out of them.. I've seen two in-game so far TWO.
One of my friends has the set and has severe buyer's remorse.
This ship was highly anticipated, for a very very long time and Cryptic released in an utterly broken state at the height of a player revolt.
I for one have been spending far far less time in game, I haven't since last week and I don't anticipate participating more... until Cryptic has a major attitude adjustment. Certain things need to be fixed. Dan's attitude twords the players needs a total 180. And quality needs to improve 10000 percent.
At this point however I am going to say based on past performance "ain't gonna happen."
You've seen Two you've seen more than me as I've seen 0. Asking Cryptic and Stahl to change there attitude will be like asking a leopard to change it's spots it ain't gonna happen
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
never buy a car without a test drive
i guess putting new ships to test on a test server before live launch doesnt compute to them >_>
unless its cheap enough i wont get one without being able to test it
i wish they would make all of the ships free on tribble server so we could try them out before buying on holodeck. til then ill stick to ships off the EC exchange
yea i know they want the "buzz" of the launch of new ships, but they keep getting bad buzz. they burn players often enough and soon no one will buy new ships for fear of getting another lemon
fool me once shame on u, fool me twice shame on me
-General Chang
I'm not sure where either of you have been playing but I've seen tons of them. Seems like every STF I've been in has 1-2 of them, most Starbase 24's have at least 5, and I got stuck in a gorn minefield with 4 of them.
I have read this thread every day since it was posted, I understand your reasons behind the changes but I feel, as many others do, that there is major disconnect. I know that I don't post a lot, mostly due to the fact that the point I was going to make was stated.
Here is my take, as I see it.
On February 13, Task Force Spectre first Fleet to hit tier 5 Starbase
On February 14, Patch makes changes to reward system
Increasing Dilithium and Energy Credits rewards
Decreasing Fleet Marks rewards
This creates a backlash, many players state that Fleet Marks rewards are too low, current reward levels greatly favoring large fleets.
On February 14, This thread was started. Once again, Dastahl made the claim that all the metrics so that fleets need more Dilithium, but still not willing to increase the refinement rate. I still don't see how more Dilithium ore will help if I can earn more than 8,000 doing my daily grinds.
On February 19, Dastahl returns with changes inbound. Timeline is soon, "Thursday" or May...... wait and see.
On February 21, Patch increases and adds Fleets Marks to may missions. This made many of us ask why not put them in with the last patch or wait to change the foundry mission till this patch.
I am a day one vet, with a lifetime. I also run small fleet, about 7 active members. We just leveled to a tier 2 Starbase. Doing this is too much like a job, not to mention the work needed on our embassy or our Klingon Fleet. We're not looking for a handout, and we shouldn't have to join a large faceless fleet. These guys are my friends, we like the fact that our fleet is, ours. There are many larger fleets but this one is ours.
Like a stated in the beginning, this how I saw these events.
As soon as a fleet hit tier 5, they had to slow fleet progression. Of course large fleets need more Dilithium. Players will only give some of their 8,000 per day because there many things that need Dilithium other their fleet. But, there is only one place to spend fleet marks. Fleet change is needed.
As many people have stated, there are some very good ideas on how to help all fleets. As I see it there are three "sizes" of fleets: under 20 active players, 50ish active players and over 100 active players.
I only wish Cryptic would care enough to start a round table with fleets of different sizes to address changes that are needed. Randomly pick a few fleets from each tier size to improve the fleet system in the game.
Yeah, some people have to get a grip on reality. The Andorian ship is far more popular than- lets say for ex. the Vesta was when it was released.
I've seen tons of them as well, atm looks like every 4th or 5th ship I see is Andorian escort.
That, at the very least would be a start.
Fleet issues aren't the only elephant in the room though - Cryptic's fast-becoming-cyclic policies of removing in-game currencies and then having to hastily and clumsily patch them back in is eroding what little trust and goodwill a large number of this community have left.
This game won't survive as a costly full-on Asian grinder MMO - and that's exactly where it's headed - all you have to do is look at what Season 7 attempted to remove and what was added as 'content' to see what the roadmap for STO is.
Are you kidding me?
Since the change, I personally went from getting about 300 Fms a day with various missions, and maybe 1 foundry mission.. to getting about 800 a day with the HUGE increase in rewards on all FM maps. This was a huge +++ to Cryptic and Dan.. IMO.
This change has greatly increased the number of players in the Deferi zone , the Nukara zone, and all Fleet events. Heck, the zones give you 72 FMs per hard completed a day.. you can finish all 3 in the time it took you to get through one long lousy Foundry mission. 60 < 216 .. which would you rather????
Flame away but I am right, this was a good decision. We are playing an MMORPG, not a RPG.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Firstly, this thread is no longer about Fleet Marks alone, the imbalance in the Fleet Marks system that essentially made it a broken system was just a symptom for a far wider rot which comes down to Cryptic consistently rushing systems and content that is bugged, broken or unbalanced.
The change only happened because the players attempted to fix the broken FM system themselves by using a loophole in the Foundry rewards, one that may I add was put in there by Cryptic, why on earth it was a 30 minute repeatable missions I don't know.
Either way the change was needed, but I don't think they should be receiving any plaudits for offering an unbalanced currency system and then eventually when sufficiently moved out of their lackadaisical pattern of behaviour come up with the bright idea of immediatly shutting down the player driven fix and waiting a whole week to do the simple task of spreading FM's to other parts of the game.
It was horribly handled and whilst on the FM front we eventually got a pretty good solution the way it was done and the fact that it was only done because the players essentially forced Cryptics hand does not fill me with confidence especially as this was not the first time their amateurish behaviour has led to players having to pressure them into changes, I.e. Loot drops and Dilithium in STF's.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
#2311#2700#2316#2500
The CDF (Cryptic destruction Force:D) will complain till the end of time.
But like I always says...As long as people are complaining their still playing. :cool:
Did you even read the thread? The discussion is not about Fleet Marks any more.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8189131&postcount=2311
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Then someone needs to start a new thread as the title of the thread is now mis-leading.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
thisisoverlord is already working on that. See the purple text in his post above.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I have read his text (and this thread) and he seems unwilling to do that as it has been suggested since the original topic and reason for this thread in the first place has been answered and iterated to the point the original issue and situation for this thread have changed.
If he has the support, the new thread he makes regarding the issues he wants addressed should reach similar 'threadnaught' status in short order.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Not the case for me, my energies are devoted elsewhere now, partly on moving forwards with a more organized player driven critique and oversight of the game.
:cool:
As the purple text states I am waiting for the end of this week before I move onto the consultation stage with other players, I am hoping however for us to do a lot more than just create a new thread.
Furthermore it is not up to me whether this thread gets closed or not, that is a matter for the moderators of this forum.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I'm not sure why wanting to wait a week or so for players to PM with constructive ideas before starting a "roundtable discussion" makes you unwilling to start a thread.
Give it time, no one wnats to jump into something without clear focus.
We must seperate legitimate complaints from just plain haters.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Good morning STO! It is people like this that only see the struck match and not the forest that's ablaze around them. The fleet mark removal was the struck match but the game is burning down around us. The problem isn't merely about fleet marks any longer. Please just pick a few random pages and actually READ THEM before making a comment like this.
We (as Star Trek fans) are watching an IP be abused, a game turned into a horrid grind-fest, and the current owners laughing at us all the way to the bank. Some of us are boycotting this injustice in various ways, I have barely spent a dime on this game since Season 7 hit.
Anyway...Power to the people! Keep fighting the Good Fight!
And you really think that the game is worse off than it was pre-season 6? Dilithium wasn't even a useful currency, the extent of level 50 content was running the 6 STFs over and over again for the chance of possibly getting something useful with a bunch of empty fleet actions sitting ignored.
Was the whole thing with the starbase and how it works poorly managed? Of course it was. They also made stupid decisions in what they were going to cut out from different missions at the beginning of Season 7. But at least there's actually things to do now with some long-term goals. Sure not everything is perfect, far from it, but at least there is actually some diversity of things to do! They might not have done it well, but there at least is so much more end-game content than there was before.
There isn't actually much new end-game content at all and in fact the 3 ground STF's are pretty much mothballed as very few people now play them.
What they did was to attach rewards to parts of the game that people weren't playing in order to try to get them to play that content. The content itself is still boring but people queue for it now because there is at least some reward for doing it whereas before there simply wasn't.
The reputation systems didn't add much new content they just repackaged old content and bolted on a few extra's in return for awful time-gating and dilithium sinks that have have fundamentally changed the nature of the exchange to the benefit of cryptics bottom line on Zen sales.
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