It's like Dan Stahl and his cronies took a dump on our plates in the patch that dropped FM's from Foundry missions. Then, when enough of us complained that we didn't want to eat sh*t, they patched again. The new patch was like giving us a napkin and then saying 'better?'. I would really like to see Dan Stahl resign from his position. He is a potential catastrophe for this game. And his PR skills are BEYOND deplorable. I have decided NOT to spend another dime on STO until such a time as Dan Stahl and team learn to flush the toilet and stop pooping on our plates.
Boycott Star Trek Online. It is the ONLY way they will listen.
The problem with this idea is that it quickly runs into all the game balance issues we know and hate. By counting healing you help cruisers have a decent chance against the escorts, but sci ships still get shafted unless you count every subsystem disable, every Repel effect, every power and shield drain, and then how do you assign a numerical value to them? And if you want it to be based on actual useful performance, not just the numbers generated, then the game has to understand the tactics of the mission well enough to reward players for pushing probes away from the vortex, even if the team ultimately doesn't kill them, but penalize players for pushing probes into the vortex. It just very rapidly turns into a huge mess to do it marginally fairly. Vote to kick with time limitations at the beginning and end would work much better (say you can't kick people in the first minute or after a major 2/3rds done moment, like 2nd transformer down in ISE, 2nd gate down in KASE, or 2nd cube down in CSE). By setting it up that way a team can't kick someone for no reason at the very beginning, and they can't kick them after they've already worked their way through almost all of it (at least without setting the remainder of the team up for a major disadvantage for further hard battles).
yea i have thought about the kick system, but with the possible abuse that could go on, like kicking someone at the very end so they dont get rewards
but i have to say ur idea solves that quite nicely
making a small window of being able to kick in say the middle 1/3 of the mission would be great. waiting just long enough to confirm they arent doing anything, but not waiting so long that ppl who contribute get kicked from spite.
in this line of thinking...
they could assign each item that has to be done/killed in a mission a percentage of mission completion, then open kicking between set percents, say 20%-50% or something
for timed missions like azure, just set kicking between set times in the count down.
for example infected conduit, which is a fav of mine
there are 8 generators, 2 transformers, 2 cubes/spheres, gate, tac cube
each time one is killed a percent is complete
generators = 4% each x8 = 32%
sphere/cube = 4% each x2 = 8%
transformers = 10% each x2 = 20%
gate = 20%
tac cube = 20%
Total = 100% and rewards
since each kill sets some trigger anyway, it shouldnt be hard to add a percent to the triggers. like killing a gen triggers ship spawns at the gate etc.
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i have thought about the rewards being based on performance in the mission also, but i dont see how u could make it fair to everyone given the large differences in professional roles. unless u count all the heals, dmg and other skills done, but that would make for a very intricate system needing to be developed. not to mention it would still put newer players at a disadvantage in missions, since their heals and dmg are both lower than veterans. and also hurt players that are really trying but keep dying, since the wait after death gets longer and longer in STFs
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?" -General Chang
yea i have thought about the kick system, but with the possible abuse that could go on, like kicking someone at the very end so they dont get rewards
but i have to say ur idea solves that quite nicely
making a small window of being able to kick in say the middle 1/3 of the mission would be great. waiting just long enough to confirm they arent doing anything, but not waiting so long that ppl who contribute get kicked from spite.
in this line of thinking...
they could assign each item that has to be done/killed in a mission a percentage of mission completion, then open kicking between set percents, say 20%-50% or something
for timed missions like azure, just set kicking between set times in the count down.
for example infected conduit, which is a fav of mine
there are 8 generators, 2 transformers, 2 cubes/spheres, gate, tac cube
each time one is killed a percent is complete
generators = 4% each x8 = 32%
sphere/cube = 4% each x2 = 8%
transformers = 10% each x2 = 20%
gate = 20%
tac cube = 20%
Total = 100% and rewards
since each kill sets some trigger anyway, it shouldnt be hard to add a percent to the triggers. like killing a gen triggers ship spawns at the gate etc.
I understand some apprehension about having a kick system for grouping, but really how often do you really think people just get kicked right at the end for no reason? That hardly ever happens. The game(s) I play(ed) with a system for kicking people had instances where the whole point was going in with a group to defeat the many bosses and 'roll' on the loot...if there even was any at all. In STO they've pretty much taken the RNG for loot out altogether so without that to worry about there is really 0 reason someone would abuse that system in that way, it's pointless. The STO community that I've played with for the majority is pretty mature and good natured even when it comes to instances and loot. There's bad apples sure, but the general attitude is much better than a lot of MMO's I've played. If anything I feel a 'kick' system would be even less abused here than in any other game I'm familiar with. I don't see the reason for 'need/greed' either, just 'roll/pass' should be perfectly fine.
It's like Dan Stahl and his cronies took a dump on our plates in the patch that dropped FM's from Foundry missions. Then, when enough of us complained that we didn't want to eat sh*t, they patched again. The new patch was like giving us a napkin and then saying 'better?'. I would really like to see Dan Stahl resign from his position. He is a potential catastrophe for this game. And his PR skills are BEYOND deplorable. I have decided NOT to spend another dime on STO until such a time as Dan Stahl and team learn to flush the toilet and stop pooping on our plates.
Boycott Star Trek Online. It is the ONLY way they will listen.
Agreed.
I hope they change it back to how it was before. I really do.
I read Dan's explanation at the beginning of the thread, and "We want you to play it like how we originally wanted you to" just doesn't cut it. Sorry.
I understand some apprehension about having a kick system for grouping, but really how often do you really think people just get kicked right at the end for no reason? That hardly ever happens. The game(s) I play(ed) with a system for kicking people had instances where the whole point was going in with a group to defeat the many bosses and 'roll' on the loot...if there even was any at all. In STO they've pretty much taken the RNG for loot out altogether so without that to worry about there is really 0 reason someone would abuse that system in that way, it's pointless. The STO community that I've played with for the majority is pretty mature and good natured even when it comes to instances and loot. There's bad apples sure, but the general attitude is much better than a lot of MMO's I've played. If anything I feel a 'kick' system would be even less abused here than in any other game I'm familiar with. I don't see the reason for 'need/greed' either, just 'roll/pass' should be perfectly fine.
well the whole point to my post was i was saying i liked the idea of a kick system modified like u mentioned with a window for doing it
and i have played games where kicking at the last second happened to me personally. it was team play and my team won, and the person that created the room we were in kicked me at the last second, i guess cause i got more kills than him idk. and we were on the same team btw
so there are always jerks, and a lot of them need no reason other than they are just jerks. u dont have to say or do anything to them personally, they are just that way.
seen it in plenty of games ive played.
as far as STO being better than other games as far as conduct goes.... idk, if it really was i dont think afking in STFs and FAs would be a problem like it is.
i wouldnt bank on the natural good nature of ppl, especially online, since most ppl tend to act online in ways they would never do in real life. i have seen and received chat in games and forums that i doubt anyone would have said to anyone face to face, or even over the phone. its something about the feeling of anonymity the internet provides.
___________________________________________
EDIT:
on a side note also
does the officer report event ingame actually do anything with the foundry missions now that IOR was taken away?
if not it needs to be removed so that a useful event can take its place
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?" -General Chang
EDIT:
on a side note also
does the officer report event ingame actually do anything with the foundry missions now that IOR was taken away?
if not it needs to be removed so that a useful event can take its place
i think there should there add a small dmg/heal count say 5k to unlock the reward in team missions then even a under powerd sci should still get a reward. but i would love a friendly fire button or at end off mission it sees all as enemys so we can blow AFKers away and each other for that matter :cool:
To Cryptic , the "omg wow!" factor that they get from releasing a PR statement about a new ship coming "tomorrow" is worth more then putting a new Lockbox / Lobi ship on Tribble for a week for a shakedown .
The surprise/buzz is worth more to them then the actual functionality of the product .
I find this both unethical and disturbing .
And to this I will tell you what I said somewhere else : I am VERY glad that these ppl don't deal with life or death situations .
Been there , done that , not fun .
Your version of the story is "well there are bugs in every program" while you pat Cryptic on the head .
My version is : do you expect to get to Mars (or anywhere else for that matter) with that kind of attitude ?
You applaud programming mediocrity , you applaud bad QA procedure , and apparently you even believe the line about "we've learned from this experience" .
And no , I don't have to go work for cryptic to fix their S%!t . Not my job , not my field .
But I too have been here for a long time and the things that get priority fixes in this game have me more and more worried .
In fact I am concerned that as the game grows , Cryptic is loosing the ability to "make it go" correctly .
More and more bugs ,less and less going back to fix things .
Season 7 is a prime example of that .
And instead of doing right by the game (and their costumers) , Cryptic rushes on ahead to deliver a code update (Season 8) that is supposed to be either 3-4 times the size of a normal Season , or the rest of Season 7 .
Either way -- I am REALLY CONCERNED about the amount of bugs a Season such as that will introduce with their current lack of QA/QC .
You tell me Mr. software professional : do you think the game will handle such an amount of incoming bugs ?
EDIT : you know , on second thought maybe you should not bother to answer that question , as it seems that our ideas about "quality" and "proper work" seem to be way too far apart -- thus making your answer irrelevant to me .
Are you seriously trying to imply that because I'm pointing out previous cases of Cryptic buffoonery related to c-store ships that I'm somehow accepting or excusing it?
Hasn't these thread been resloved with the last patch? Sure IOR is still gone, but the way the system was orignally designed - to get marks only from fleet type events - has been VASTLY improved.
I know it's mind numbing but on 6 toon and a booster I can get 13 runs of colony invasion in during bonus event
74 x 13 = 962 marks - doing that 3 times per week which is reasonable = over 2800 marks
5 member fleet = 14,000 marks per week
for a 5 person fleet that would cover EVERY starbase tier 3 to 4 project(900 marks x 3) every single day.
Hasn't these thread been resloved with the last patch? Sure IOR is still gone, but the way the system was orignally designed - to get marks only from fleet type events - has been VASTLY improved.
In the past that is how it's gone, but something has changed this time around. The movement has come to a collective consciousness that there's more to it than just the latest change. What we're actually upset about is a whole pattern of events, and the removal of fleet marks was just the latest example. Post #2311 on page 232 is a nice quick summary of much of what this is about.
No Dan, the MMORPG genre is not like that especially for adult audiences, maybe if your key demographic was kids with endless time then you could make that claim and argue that the this is the way the game should be. However your core demographic is middle ages Star Trek fans and may I add I doubt that unless there is a new Star Trek TV series which is genuinely popular you won't be getting in large volume of kids playing.
Our lives and habits do not lead us to enjoy grinding, you know this is true and it's why time and time again the Player Base has forced you to change your broken systems to remove grind. That is what happened in the weeks post Season 7.
This is the part where you're completely wrong and unfair with Stahl.
Yes the MMO genre is all about grind. Because repetable content is the only way to keep players doing the same thing over and over, and they day they realize they have nothing to do they don't come back, or they come back later but won't be as interested in the game as those who never stopped playing. Returning players are always the first to leave and not to spend money.
If you don't like "grind" well you should reconsider your own purposes: leading your own fleet (really? what's the point, can't you accept to be one among others in a large organization?), achieving your very own goals as soon as possible with a minimal investment in time.
I can tell you that even if people enjoy complaining about the MMOs they play (i've played only one with almost zero player complaint, this was a completely free without any profit game, and it received updtates once every two years) they also keep playing it. Everyone complains, but everyone keeps playing, as if it was a part of the game.
Many people would like to get instant rewards and gratification, but some frustration means the game is doing really well. And i'm not talking about quality of life bugs (they shouldn't exist) but about achieving specific goals. If people complain it's too slow/too hard to get it, it means the devs are successful, because you'll likely keep playing as long as this goal looks achievable.
Grind isn't just a "necessary evil" because devs can't produce content fast enough, it's the very reason why people keep playing such games. Players have long term goals, they want to do x, have y and win z, and as long as they consider it to be doable they'll keep playing. Of course as soon as it doesn't look achievable anymore people start to quit or create massive rant threads, like this one, but frustration and grind are exactly why MMOs are popular. Because you'll do whatever you have to do to get what you really want.
As a conclusion there is no MMO without grind. Because it can't exist, or it won't be as successful, or it relies on completely different mechanics (addictions, greed, sex, like second life) and it's not really a game.
As a conclusion there is no MMO without grind. Because it can't exist, or it won't be as successful, or it relies on completely different mechanics (addictions, greed, sex, like second life) and it's not really a game.
Ahem, Eve, would like to have a word with you. Its a MMO, where is the "grind"
people want less grind and more fun in this game thats all they want.
like i said many pages ago i dont read every comment or page of this thread and cryptic should write down every idea that is on this thread and see which one works the best with people in this mmo
It's like Dan Stahl and his cronies took a dump on our plates in the patch that dropped FM's from Foundry missions. Then, when enough of us complained that we didn't want to eat sh*t, they patched again. The new patch was like giving us a napkin and then saying 'better?'. I would really like to see Dan Stahl resign from his position. He is a potential catastrophe for this game. And his PR skills are BEYOND deplorable. I have decided NOT to spend another dime on STO until such a time as Dan Stahl and team learn to flush the toilet and stop pooping on our plates.
Boycott Star Trek Online. It is the ONLY way they will listen.
You will not be called 'sir' for the purpose of this text log. You will also not be treated fairly due to your unfair treatment and dishonorable conduct. With that being said, your actions are typical of metagamers who want everything, and want it now. A grand majority of this ENTIRE thread is nothing but give this to us now! do this! do that! make it better! fix everything! test everything 64 times because if you do you won't have a bug/glitch!
You people seriously think that's how any large game works? Think again and ask the intellectual, easygoing, and gentlemanly friend of yours that tolerates your presence about EverQuest. That was a game with ABSOLUTELY ZERO COMMUNICATION between players and developers/coders. This game has problems. Every game has problems. There will NEVER be a game that does not come without bugs, glitches, exploits, clipping issues, and those blasted cavebats. Expecting perfection with more than one person is redundant.
The Foundry was being abused for fleet marks, that much is clear. I've seen zone chat many times where people stated they somehow exploiting out 2k marks in half an hour. If none of you think IOR being removed is legitimate and STILL pointing fingers, might wanna ask some people in your fleet about those extra 100k FC's every half-hour/hour.
Get over it, some changes were made, and FM's are now easier than ever. I approve of STO greatly, even with all it's funny little bugs that don't need to be fixed. Scavenge Dead Targ, indeed.
A critical review of the systems and game-play in Star Trek Online
Executive Summary (tl:dr)
Increase supply of currencies
Fix legacy bugs and sort out major bugs
Ensure boring content is updated or that we have grind less of it to get rewards
Freeze or decrease currency input costs
Fix several UI issues
Ensure lockboxes are ancillary to the aim of developing real content
Fix the major issues with small fleets and fleet scaling
Treat your players properly
That should bring back the fun.
I want to bring this forward again so everyone has a chance to read it. Click the link to go back to the main post. Very articulate and well-written.
Cryptic... Devs: Heed my words. Heed OUR words: We don't want to play Grind Trek anymore. This is the FIRST weekend where I haven't spent the majority of my time in-game -- I just can't grind anymore.
In order to get an entire set of Elite gear for just one toon... I did the calculations the amount of time required is STAGGERING. Even if I spread the dilth grind across all of my toons we're looking at FOUR MONTHS of grinding to refine cap every day. That's not counting the staggering number of Fleet Marks I need to pour into a Starbase to generate the required Fleet Credits.
And this is just ONE toon. If I dedicate my time to running THIS grind how am I supposed to find time to grind my other two main toons? Borg gear? Out of the question! STFs are broken again... I'm getting one-shot'd with ALARMING frequency again. I can't even get past 9.9KM at times without getting blasted by a 250K crit.
Romulan Marks... you folks seem to have a very strange perception of just what the duties of a Vice Admiral entail -- I can count on one hand the number of times I saw a flag-officer chip-and-paint with the rest of us when I served... and those three occasions were staged photo-ops. Fact is, the New Rom Bunny Hunt and Click The Broken Machines grind is far more suited to ENTRY LEVEL players than end-game players!
There is an idea... reset the New Rom missions as an entry-level grind for new players. This allows new folks to get a taste of the good gear and it gets them to level up to endgame where they may be willing to spend money on premium content.
As it stands now I am on the verge of uninstalling the game... Putting all that effort into a grind for a set of gear is just heart-breaking.
This is not the Star Trek I started watching in 1975. This is not the Star Trek I wrote two novels for. No, this is NOT the Star Trek I wrote RPG supplements for either.
As a First Generation Trekker, I am appalled at what this has become. Simply appalled.
I'm tempted to sit down and write out a short-story based on a classic TNG episode but substitute grind mechanics for storytelling.
Picture the scene in Best Of Both Worlds where Riker and the crew are discussing potential weapons -- "The heavy gravaton beam looks promising but we simply do not have enough Fleet Marks to acquire all three pieces before the Borg reach Earth!"
Cryptic: Heed my words. The end is nearer than you think... and you are bringing it upon yourselves. Stop, reflect on what is being said here... and get back on track before you end up a footnote in Wikipedia under "Star Trek Games."
You will not be called 'sir' for the purpose of this text log. You will also not be treated fairly due to your unfair treatment and dishonorable conduct. With that being said, your actions are typical of metagamers who want everything, and want it now. A grand majority of this ENTIRE thread is nothing but give this to us now! do this! do that! make it better! fix everything! test everything 64 times because if you do you won't have a bug/glitch!
You people seriously think that's how any large game works? Think again and ask the intellectual, easygoing, and gentlemanly friend of yours that tolerates your presence about EverQuest. That was a game with ABSOLUTELY ZERO COMMUNICATION between players and developers/coders. This game has problems. Every game has problems. There will NEVER be a game that does not come without bugs, glitches, exploits, clipping issues, and those blasted cavebats. Expecting perfection with more than one person is redundant.
The Foundry was being abused for fleet marks, that much is clear. I've seen zone chat many times where people stated they somehow exploiting out 2k marks in half an hour. If none of you think IOR being removed is legitimate and STILL pointing fingers, might wanna ask some people in your fleet about those extra 100k FC's every half-hour/hour.
Get over it, some changes were made, and FM's are now easier than ever. I approve of STO greatly, even with all it's funny little bugs that don't need to be fixed. Scavenge Dead Targ, indeed.
Try reading the legitimate grievances before making such comments. This has gone beyond simple fleet marks.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
You people seriously think that's how any large game works? Think again and ask the intellectual, easygoing, and gentlemanly friend of yours that tolerates your presence about EverQuest. That was a game with ABSOLUTELY ZERO COMMUNICATION between players and developers/coders.
No, you're completely and utterly wrong. There was a *lot* of communication in EQ, since release, and there still is. I have no idea where you got that impression. You want lack of comms, go to the swtor forums...
As a conclusion there is no MMO without grind. Because it can't exist, or it won't be as successful, or it relies on completely different mechanics (addictions, greed, sex, like second life) and it's not really a game.
And that is also utterly incorrect. Grind exists in MMO's ONLY because real content cannot be produced as fast as it is consumed. That's it. Grind is tested and repeatable content that can keep people occupied until the next new batch is created. Nothing more. And there's nothing terribly wrong with that, although I wonder why the now ancient tries of AO's mission terminals never went further. (STO's random explore system missions are actually a good try at this too, but lack the customizability and randomization.)
There is no MMO without grind just because developers and companies have fallen onto it as a safe point. Content is king, queen, and executioner, and is what drives MMOs. The day a bunch of devs manage to get that AI to program stories-to-go, mmo's will forever shuck this stupid grindfest and maybe get on with being fun.
I'm not saying that all the grind is bad, I'm just saying that it is maybe a bit too slow and too hard, especially for fleets. I'm not wanting everything right now, just perhaps a bit easier.
Because right now, its either help your fleet or your own reputation. I only ask for enough dilithium to do both. Fleet and Omega marks are fine, but we need Romulan mark increase. (Perhaps Elite romulan instances, like with STFS?)
I have ten level 50 characters, but I could only get the mark XII sets on Two out of Ten. For the other eight, I'm too tired to do it.
I don't want to get rid of the reputation system, just wish for a bit reduced costs in terms of resources it costs.
Actually I want it to be improved. What about a Elite Antiproton space weapons for Omega Tier VI ? An elite Quantum torpedo for Omega Tier VII? A romulan armor plate console at romulan reputation Tier VI?
There are a lot of fun stuff you can add that way, that do not take that much programming and resources wise. (I modded games, I know its easier to add a special type of already existing item then make fully new content)
My advice of Elite Antiproton space weapons for a future omega update is not only easy resource and code wise, but the Omega force already has ground AP weapons to be unlocked, so its not unreasonable.
Lowering the grind, and perhaps giving Lifetime and subscribers free new character slots every ...lets say every Two months would really let them have new characters too, which would keep them in game too.
Making a new character and outfitting it to top gear was one of the fun things I had. But then the bad, nasty dilithium addition to the Crafting took all the craftable gear away, so I stopped crafting.
Now with the rep system, its just too slow. If it was not for role-play, I would have dissapeared for Skyrim months ago.
Grinding is okey in a game, but a little fine tuning it may not hurt in order to please your customers, Mr Stahl. Remember... Happy costumers are more likely to buy your products.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Yes the MMO genre is all about grind. Because repetable content is the only way to keep players doing the same thing over and over, and they day they realize they have nothing to do they don't come back, or they come back later but won't be as interested in the game as those who never stopped playing. Returning players are always the first to leave and not to spend money.
*SNIP*
Many people would like to get instant rewards and gratification, but some frustration means the game is doing really well. And i'm not talking about quality of life bugs (they shouldn't exist) but about achieving specific goals. If people complain it's too slow/too hard to get it, it means the devs are successful, because you'll likely keep playing as long as this goal looks achievable.
Grind isn't just a "necessary evil" because devs can't produce content fast enough, it's the very reason why people keep playing such games. Players have long term goals, they want to do x, have y and win z, and as long as they consider it to be doable they'll keep playing. Of course as soon as it doesn't look achievable anymore people start to quit or create massive rant threads, like this one, but frustration and grind are exactly why MMOs are popular. Because you'll do whatever you have to do to get what you really want.
But there's a difference between repeatable content and life-sucking grind, and this game has moved well onto the side of the latter. We should be able to get a reasonable quantity of our grinds done in a fairly small fraction of our playing time, and they should be drawn out primarily by project cooldowns. There actually is a little bit of this with the reputation stuff, which had a relatively efficient project that you could do the whole thing with if you wanted, and a less efficient project you could use to supplement that if you wanted to.
Put it this way. We've heard before that they think their average player logs on 2-3 times a week for about 3 hours each time. That's 6-9 hours per week. As it stands, if you play the most efficient content possible for all of that time and buy a fair bit of dilithium on the dilithium exchange you're still not going to be a very good contributor to your fleet and keep your Reputation going. Now, that doesn't sound like a very active player to me, but I would say that if you log on every day for two hours you should be able to finish your grind in less than half of the time you play, probably around a third, or you should be able to play any content you want to do your grinding. That way you have time left to play any content you like, instead of having to do the same thing someone else says to over and over again. And if you want to get quicker progression with loads of time on your hands there should be those less efficient missions available to do that.
Yes the MMO genre is all about grind. Because repetable content is the only way to keep players doing the same thing over and over, and they day they realize they have nothing to do they don't come back, or they come back later but won't be as interested in the game as those who never stopped playing. Returning players are always the first to leave and not to spend money.
Wrong, the MMO genre is all about keeping people playing and having fun. So to keep people playing you create systems and content that are compelling and you ENSURE that content that must be repeated is kept fresh and entertaining.
You see here is where you have failed to understand one of the major issues with all MMO's and that is that there is a balancing act going on where you have to have players repeating things to extend the life of content but at the same time have to ensure that the repetition doesn't drive people away.
You talk of having nothing to do "driving people away" I talk about not having fun in game driving people away, much of that comes down to the same boring repetitive content. You see this is where your objectivity is lacking, you argue that not having things to do makes people leave yet you don't acknowledge that boredom from having repetition is equally a reason.
I don't play anymore because the grind is no fun and I frankly don't have the time to log in for 3 hours a day to keep things ticking over so rather than attempt to do so I simply don't play at all.
If you don't like "grind" well you should reconsider your own purposes: leading your own fleet (really? what's the point, can't you accept to be one among others in a large organization?), achieving your very own goals as soon as possible with a minimal investment in time.
No the point is I want to be part of something that has a social reward, I want to be around friends I want to contribute and I want the thing I am contributing to to have meaning. Human beings in general gain satisfaction and emotional return from feeling part of a close-knit thing, for being known and knowing other peoples within that thing. Being part of a large fleet just so I can get shinnies has no interest for me at all. Being part of a community of friends working to build something together is utterly compelling. It's just a shame that for casual gamers STO's system prohibits this.
I can tell you that even if people enjoy complaining about the MMOs they play (i've played only one with almost zero player complaint, this was a completely free without any profit game, and it received updtates once every two years) they also keep playing it. Everyone complains, but everyone keeps playing, as if it was a part of the game.
investment in time.
For me personally, I've never had any serious complaints in the way Turbine manage their MMO offerings or any complaints about lack of enjoyable repeatable content in DDO or LOTRO. Simple as that. DDO has never made me feel like it was boring or developed by group that was amateurish in it's internal and external communication and organisation.
Many people would like to get instant rewards and gratification, but some frustration means the game is doing really well. And i'm not talking about quality of life bugs (they shouldn't exist) but about achieving specific goals. If people complain it's too slow/too hard to get it, it means the devs are successful, because you'll likely keep playing as long as this goal looks achievable.
investment in time.
And this is where cryptic have failed the goals are simply not achievable in any sensible time for a person who can't devote 3 hours a day to the game. That's why they are failing to retain people like me who frankly don't have the time. This is also a major problem with the fleet system a group of close friends of say 5-10 in number have no chance to advancing their fleet by playing for 6 hours together on the weekend. One of the aims for fleets was for friends to join together and have fun in game and rep the rewards for teamwork, this as an aim has been left unfulfilled.
Grind isn't just a "necessary evil" because devs can't produce content fast enough, it's the very reason why people keep playing such games. Players have long term goals, they want to do x, have y and win z, and as long as they consider it to be doable they'll keep playing. Of course as soon as it doesn't look achievable anymore people start to quit or create massive rant threads, like this one, but frustration and grind are exactly why MMOs are popular. Because you'll do whatever you have to do to get what you really want.
As a conclusion there is no MMO without grind. Because it can't exist, or it won't be as successful, or it relies on completely different mechanics (addictions, greed, sex, like second life) and it's not really a game.
Lol "not really a game" I suppose Chess isn't a game either give me a break this is where your mask slips entirely because the idea that grind is the core component of a game and anything that has different mechanics "is not a game" is frankly a hilarious comment. I won't bother breaking it down because most people can see your statement for what it is.
That's the thing about MMO's too, an MMO keeps it's players when it has emotional meaning for the players, when they get a buzz from playing when they feel like they can achieve things. However with STO this is no longer the case for many people like myself. I think also for a lot of those who are here because it's Star Trek we have a general and increasing dislike for the game and it's mechanics and how with each passing patch it's getting further and further away from what we want our Star Trek Online experience to be.
2311, 2316, 2700, read them.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
Look, you guys keep fixing things that don't need to be fixed and fail to fix things that do. Your players are getting pissed off and you're going to lose players (I'm on the verge of quitting myself). You've offered no truly new content. You've turned the game into a grind rather than a story based game (which is the primary draw). The content is lacking and the replay value is nill.
The fact is the foundry didn't need to be touched your "goals" are contrary to the fun of the players.
You haven't fixed the Crystalline Entity issue, you haven't fixed the STF glitches in the Hive yet that make it IMPOSSIBLE to beat. Yet you constantly TRIBBLE up the things that actually make the game worth playing.
I really don't understand why you developers keep doing this.
What needs to be done: Return the repeatable investigative officer report with fleet mark bonus.
Add new Episode Content that has actual story. Not this idiotic grind and go system you've created with the Borg Invasion planet, the Tholian Invasion Planet, and new Romulus.
Fix all the stupid glitches, broken missions, broken stfs, etc before doing anything else to the game.
Fix the economy so that the exchange isn't so bloated.
There is a lesson to be learned here, Cryptic/PWO. Your players are your source of income, treat us with respect or we leave. I just cancelled my sub and will not spend another dime here. Good riddance to me? Oh well right? Just how many more until it shows on your metrics?
The thing is this, removing the fleet marks wasn't your worst mistake in this, although it was very ill-conceived. The worst and most intolerable part was the blatant disrespect you've shown us. Not only did you treat our concerns as trivial in dastahl's second post but then you completely ignored our outcry since. This is insulting. You really should learn to listen to your players and atleast make an effort to correct your mistakes.
Since you obviously don't value our financial support, you leave me no choice but to withdraw mine.
I generally spend my day playing this game..... as a retiree, I have loads of time. I have also spent the majority of my entertainment funds here for the last 80 days. I have 3 toons maxed and am a member of the small fleets getting shafted with this. The effort to gain suitable amounts of fleet marks was already more than the rewards justified but this new situation is just plain ridiculous. After reading a great many of the posts contained here, I simply can not support a company that would treat their source of income so badly.
As stated before, there is a lesson to be learned here. I strongly urge you to learn it Cryptic before you go the way of so many before you.
A few observations that I'd like to offer my opinion on:
1) MMOs have grind. The best ones hide it the most. Devs cannot possibly add content as fast as people consume it (remember Season 2 when they added 8 KDF episodes and people were done within that many days?)
2) Where is the content? It's coming. The May update (which I'm still calling Season 8 until Cryptic actually gives it the formal name) will likely have a feature episode series, revamped KDF tutorial, and (one can only hope) content for levels 0-20. They've already stated they want another adventure zone in Tau Dewa. For more info, stay tuned to http://www.stowiki.org/Upcoming. Stahl has said they will begin giving more details at the end of March.
3) AFKers in maps. This has been a problem with fleet actions, STFs, and most recently the fleet mark events. Stahl has stated in this past week STOked Radio interview they are working on a vote-to-kick option. I don't expect this to happen instantly, but it'd be best if it comes before May.
4) The long list of grievances besides fleet marks. Yes, we know them. I bet you Cryptic knows them. I wasn't expecting them to all be solved, or even addressed, within a few days of the Feb 14 patch.
5) The fun factor. The changes to the Foundry make it pretty easy to get dilithium and even energy credits now. With the Feb 21 boost, even respectable amounts of fleet marks can be obtained. These are the three magic ingredients to upgrade your starbase. If it's still going slow, I don't think there's much that's going to happen to help your fleet.
6) Reputation system. This can be completed in about 36 days of projects. The amount of marks needed was surprisingly few (under 1900?). Since the separation between Season 7 and 8 is about 6 months, I'm not sure what more you could want in terms of XP advancement. They had already cut the time by half. The dilithium costs *are* too high for items since the dilithium cap is 8000.
7) Dilithium cap. Stahl has said that people are making more dilithium, which they want, and would raise the cap as people make more. There are a number of pros/cons to raising the cap. Pros would be people would likely play more if they can get dilithium and refine it that day. Happier players are less frustrated. The only two cons I can think of don't affect the players but rather Cryptic and PWE: it'd cost the dil/zen price to rise (thus, people would need to buy less zen from PWE to obtain dilithium) and players wouldn't need to log on as many days because they could refine as much dilithium in a smaller timeframe. So in other words it's money and possible decrease in play sessions they're waiting more heavily than player satisfaction and longer play sessions.
8) Tribble Test Server. Please, please, please test things for at least 48 hours. If testers identify bugs, hold the patch! That would help this game's stability so much and would at least make people feel like they're being listened to.
A few observations that I'd like to offer my opinion on:
2) Where is the content? It's coming. . They've already stated...
The lies we've been told are legion and subject of several STO Wiki pages. What we will end up with are more grind maps, grind-for-content, and 1 and 2 line "lore rewards."
If you really REALLY think they are going back to an episodic format you are sadly mistaken. May... we'll end up with a huge amount of content, but we'll have to grind to unlock it.
3) AFKers in maps. ((SNIP)) they are working on a vote-to-kick option. I don't expect this to happen instantly, but it'd be best if it comes before May.
Yep that's the end of the game right there. AFK'rs are bad enough but this will result in such severe abuse the game will be nigh-unplayable.
The lies we've been told are legion and subject of several STO Wiki pages. What we will end up with are more grind maps, grind-for-content, and 1 and 2 line "lore rewards."
If you really REALLY think they are going back to an episodic format you are sadly mistaken.
How confident do you feel there won't be any feature episodes coming in the next few months? I'd take that bet up
A few observations that I'd like to offer my opinion on:
1) MMOs have grind. The best ones hide it the most. Devs cannot possibly add content as fast as people consume it (remember Season 2 when they added 8 KDF episodes and people were done within that many days?)
The problem here is the replay value of Cryptics content is poor. The issue is not so much that grind exists but how it exists and is implemented in STO.
Firstly the systems that require missions to be grinded are unbalanced. This is a simple fact and the reason behind players looking for a solution by using Grinder missions and also the reason behind Cryptic increasing the volume of fleet marks. The problem is most of the other currency systems are unbalanced too.
Secondly the missions that people must repeat are often poor in terms of replay value because they offer little change or variation in experience. Let me give you an example from DDO, look at the Ruins of Gianthold adventure area. There are a total of 11 quests where all of them have internal and external variation that is to say they are different in style and content from one another and when you replay depending on the team you have assembled and their skills you will have a different experience.
In STO we simply don't have content that has that variation which makes it fun to replay. The only mission that for me even comes close is Infected Ground Elite and even that is relatively stodgy and linear.
You see look at the New Romulus adventure zone, if that was more like Gianthold where you had at least 6 VA level missions with different styles and puzzles in more open maps which you had to team with other players to complete and which required the presence of Tactical, Science and Engineering players to complete, they would have real replay value and then grinding Romulan marks would actually be fun.
Whether Cryptic have the manpower or the Engine has the capability (which it should if Neverwinter is ever going to have a chance to get anywhere close to DDO) is a different matter.
2) Where is the content? It's coming. The May update (which I'm still calling Season 8 until Cryptic actually gives it the formal name) will likely have a feature episode series, revamped KDF tutorial, and (one can only hope) content for levels 0-20. They've already stated they want another adventure zone in Tau Dewa. For more info, stay tuned to http://www.stowiki.org/Upcoming. Stahl has said they will begin giving more details at the end of March.
What Cryptic have hinted at for Season 8, is quite honestly disappointing, what is the use of any of this if the content we have to repeat to progress is simply not fun to repeat over and over. Whilst I enjoy episode series they have little replay value and do not tie into the reputation systems.
3) AFKers in maps. This has been a problem with fleet actions, STFs, and most recently the fleet mark events. Stahl has stated in this past week STOked Radio interview they are working on a vote-to-kick option. I don't expect this to happen instantly, but it'd be best if it comes before May.
Honestly I've not come into contact with this problem, but usually I play in premade groups rather than use public queues. However all the solutions that have been mentioned in my opinion cause more harm than they intend to solve. Vote to Kick is far too easy to abuse, for example I and some other trolls in it for the lulz could form a 3 man group and queue in public the two randoms that join us would then be at our mercy (could be 4:1 if it needs 4 votes to kick). We could just AFK ourselves with no fear of being kicked or we could play the mission out and kick players at the end before they get their loot or rewards.
To be honest I don't like any of the AFK fixes precisely because it will create far more powerful means to grief than it solves.
Of course there are more intelligent ways to attempt to fix the issue but nothing is full proof. For example you could have a hybrid system where the option to kick only pops up after a player is inactive for more than say 5 minutes. However even this is exploitable by AFK'rs who use Macros.
4) The long list of grievances besides fleet marks. Yes, we know them. I bet you Cryptic knows them. I wasn't expecting them to all be solved, or even addressed, within a few days of the Feb 14 patch.
I don't think anyone expected them to be, however it has served to harden up most of what was before relatively ephemeral player dissatisfaction and now many of us are looking into a permanent movement to improve the game through constructive criticism and solutions.
5) The fun factor. The changes to the Foundry make it pretty easy to get dilithium and even energy credits now. With the Feb 21 boost, even respectable amounts of fleet marks can be obtained. These are the three magic ingredients to upgrade your starbase. If it's still going slow, I don't think there's much that's going to happen to help your fleet.
As you state in your post below Dilithium is still capped and the reality is it is still in short supply due to the new sinks in the game that put pressure on players to do acquire other currencies as well as spend what dilithium they have on expensive personal reputation shops. All of this is reflected in the changed exchange rate of Dilithium:Zen.
6) Reputation system. This can be completed in about 36 days of projects. The amount of marks needed was surprisingly few (under 1900?). Since the separation between Season 7 and 8 is about 6 months, I'm not sure what more you could want in terms of XP advancement. They had already cut the time by half. The dilithium costs *are* too high for items since the dilithium cap is 8000.
The first issue with the reputation system is the time-gates. 36 days of projects for someone like me who may only get on for a few hours on Saturday during weekend would equal 36 weeks. Many of us work hard in our lives and when we get home we want to relax we don't take kindly to be forced into logging onto a game in order to have some chance of progressing in a sensible amount of time. It is far better to have a system where I can play on the weekend and know I can advance 1/2 a Tier or more in that weekend. Point here is Time-Gates are bad for casual players.
The result of the time gates for me was this, I played less on the weekends, that's all it did because there was no reason for me to play more as I hit the glass ceiling of the time gate. In Season 6 I could play maybe 6 or 7 hours on a Saturday usually trying to get Purple Tech, but it kept me coming back and I made a lot of friends on the STF channels.
I agree with you that the Dilithium costs of shop items are too much, as is the cost in term of Marks for shop items.
The point is that the Reputation system is simply terrible for casual players who cannot log in regularly to play. I'm guessing quite a large core of the paying demographic of this game work 5 days a week. Making it hard for us to enjoy the game is going to drive us away.
7) Dilithium cap. Stahl has said that people are making more dilithium, which they want, and would raise the cap as people make more. There are a number of pros/cons to raising the cap. Pros would be people would likely play more if they can get dilithium and refine it that day. Happier players are less frustrated. The only two cons I can think of don't affect the players but rather Cryptic and PWE: it'd cost the dil/zen price to rise (thus, people would need to buy less zen from PWE to obtain dilithium) and players wouldn't need to log on as many days because they could refine as much dilithium in a smaller timeframe. So in other words it's money and possible decrease in play sessions they're waiting more heavily than player satisfaction and longer play sessions.
As I said before with my above post, since Season 7 I have failed to reach the 8k cap, I simply don't believe what Stahl says and as he never backs it up with sourced evidence I have no reason to. I know a lot of people in game only reach cap by using an exploit in the game that I won't divulge. However the reality for me was that this restriction didn't make me want to log in every day to hit my cap it just made me decide the game wasn't worth it.
8) Tribble Test Server. Please, please, please test things for at least 48 hours. If testers identify bugs, hold the patch! That would help this game's stability so much and would at least make people feel like they're being listened to.
I cannot stress this enough a lot of the crappy bugs and poor balancing that hits holodeck could be reduced if they gave Tribble testers time to report feedback and if that feedback was actually listened to.
For a weekly patch there should be 7 days testing on Tribble for a Season Update there should at least be a month. Juts look at the disaster that was Season 7 when it first hit holodeck, totally unbalanced systems ridiculous lack of dilithium in STF's...
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
thisisoverlord, you bring up several good points. It seems like your response to #1 was that we need more episodes that have variability to add to their replay value. Definitely a good idea.
#2 makes it sound like you're against feature episodes as they currently are and any kind of non-storyline repeatable content. That means without #1 there's pretty much nothing to do.
#3 AFK issue I still am in a "wait and see" mentality. There's conflicting reports from players over "oh no, this is a terrible idea" to "it's really not exploited much at all in games where you don't compete for rolls at end". We don't know anything about Cryptic's vote system -- perhaps it's only for the first 5 minutes, or up to a certain point? Or maybe it will only let you vote on someone if certain criteria are met? We don't know.
#4 This would make sense but reading the hundreds of posts in this thread after the Feb 21 patch make it seem like people were shocked Cryptic didn't announce some grand plan to solve everything.
#6 I think 36 "days" of projects is rather generous to fully max out a system. Could you imagine if a starbase could be totally maxed out after 1,000,000 fleet marks without a time gate? The 500 man fleets would need 2000 per person and some people would be sitting on Tier 5 starbases after a week and then saying "now what do we do?". Alas, if you only logged in on Saturday and Sunday each week to start the reputation projects (which in terms of marks is very, very cheap -- EC it's non-trivial for many) -- you'd be done in 18 weeks. That's over 4 months to from Tier 0 to Tier 5 but then the duty officer commendation system took people several months to max out originally as well. Since we're currently 6 months between seasons that gives one plenty of time to have accrued very large quantities of marks and dilithium and then buy whatever they want with the 2 minute store projects.
Goals that take more than a day or a week are not innately bad in an MMO. It just doesn't make sense to have you become the Romulans' best friend from a long weekend of running mark missions -- a reputation takes some degree of time to develop.
#8 As a word of caution, most seasons are actually tested for a month on Tribble. Though they're also patched numerous times throughout. That still doesn't excuse Cryptic from not responding to Tribble players' feedback before it hits Holodeck.
thisisoverlord, you bring up several good points. It seems like yuor response to #1 was that we need more episodes that have variability to add to their replay value. Definitely a good idea.
Yes and more importantly that they are team based and not solo play and that they are tied into the currency and systems via end-rewards and have genuine replay value.
#2 makes it sound like you're against feature episodes as they currently are and any kind of non-storyline repeatable content. That means without #1 there's pretty much nothing to do.
more accurately I am against mission content that has little replay value, However I am a realist Cryptic are a relatively small development house and STO simply doesn't have the resources to build the sheer depth of repayable team based mission content that say DDO has. The main point here is no content and poor content have much the same effect on people I.e. they get bored and move on. So for me I see no difference between Story missions that people finish in a week and never play again and no content at all. Like you said the KDF missions were finished in a week. I'd much rather Cryptic devoted time to re-playable diverse story missions that require teaming and have rewards tied to to systems and progressions at End-Game.
#3 AFK issue I still am in a "wait and see" mentality. There's conflicting reports from players over "oh no, this is a terrible idea" to "it's really not exploited much at all in games where you don't compete for rolls at end". We don't know anything about Cryptic's vote system -- perhaps it's only for the first 5 minutes, or up to a certain point? Or maybe it will only let you vote on someone if certain criteria are met? We don't know.
Indeed, in general though from what I've seen of Vote-to-Kick systems is they introduce more griefing than they solve. But you are right we should wait to see exactly how they do this, though considering the lack of creativity displayed when the team were deciding how to implement guilds I am not holding my breath.
#4 This would make sense but reading the hundreds of posts in this thread after the Feb 21 patch make it seem like people were shocked Cryptic didn't announce some grand plan to solve everything.
I've not noticed that most of the posts I've read here, the ones that I remember (and I've read nearly all of them) tend to be relatively realistic in their appraisal of what needs to be done going forwards. There is no magic wand in this instance and in addition I don't think you can ask too much from such a small team even if as we are told it has "doubled" it's staff.
#6 I think 36 "days" of projects is rather generous to fully max out a system. Could you imagine if a starbase could be totally maxed out after 1,000,000 fleet marks without a time gate? The 500 man fleets would need 2000 per person and some people would be sitting on Tier 5 starbases after a week and then saying "now what do we do?". Alas, if you only logged in on Saturday and Sunday each week to start the reputation projects (which in terms of marks is very, very cheap -- EC it's non-trivial for many) -- you'd be done in 18 weeks. That's over 4 months to from Tier 0 to Tier 5 but then the duty officer commendation system took people several months to max out originally as well. Since we're currently 6 months between seasons that gives one plenty of time to have accrued very large quantities of marks and dilithium and then buy whatever they want with the 2 minute store projects.
36 Days being generous all depends on the average time a person is able to play per week. The main issue here is that there is a relatively diverse playerbase, there are those that play all day every day and are either unemployed or annuitants others who play a lot on the weekend and others like me who play when they can, when we can fit it around work. Honestly I don't think they have the balance right. With regards to fleets I think we all know that most other games have a scaling solutions to deal with this, STO just doesn't have a development team creative enough to come up with a proper scaled solution.
Goals that take more than a day or a week are not innately bad in an MMO. It just doesn't make sense to have you become the Romulans' best friend from a long weekend of running mark missions -- a reputation takes some degree of time to develop.
I agree but this isn't the issue with STO, the issue with STO is that it takes months of playing poor quality boring content. If you were playing fun repeated content that remained fresh achieving a goal over a matter of a month or two wouldn't be a problem for most. But when I log in look at my Romulan reputation see how long it takes to do just 1 tier and the boring content (which pays very little in marks) one must do to progress, I just fell like not bothering at all.
#8 As a word of caution, most seasons are actually tested for a month on Tribble. Though they're also patched numerous times throughout. That still doesn't excuse Cryptic from not responding to Tribble players' feedback before it hits Holodeck.
The problem was Season 7 wasn't tested over a month at all, only bits of the finished the Season were tested, other parts didn't even get a chance at being tested.
What was needed was a full month for the finished project to be tested.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
Comments
Boycott Star Trek Online. It is the ONLY way they will listen.
yea i have thought about the kick system, but with the possible abuse that could go on, like kicking someone at the very end so they dont get rewards
but i have to say ur idea solves that quite nicely
making a small window of being able to kick in say the middle 1/3 of the mission would be great. waiting just long enough to confirm they arent doing anything, but not waiting so long that ppl who contribute get kicked from spite.
in this line of thinking...
they could assign each item that has to be done/killed in a mission a percentage of mission completion, then open kicking between set percents, say 20%-50% or something
for timed missions like azure, just set kicking between set times in the count down.
for example infected conduit, which is a fav of mine
there are 8 generators, 2 transformers, 2 cubes/spheres, gate, tac cube
each time one is killed a percent is complete
generators = 4% each x8 = 32%
sphere/cube = 4% each x2 = 8%
transformers = 10% each x2 = 20%
gate = 20%
tac cube = 20%
Total = 100% and rewards
since each kill sets some trigger anyway, it shouldnt be hard to add a percent to the triggers. like killing a gen triggers ship spawns at the gate etc.
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i have thought about the rewards being based on performance in the mission also, but i dont see how u could make it fair to everyone given the large differences in professional roles. unless u count all the heals, dmg and other skills done, but that would make for a very intricate system needing to be developed. not to mention it would still put newer players at a disadvantage in missions, since their heals and dmg are both lower than veterans. and also hurt players that are really trying but keep dying, since the wait after death gets longer and longer in STFs
-General Chang
I understand some apprehension about having a kick system for grouping, but really how often do you really think people just get kicked right at the end for no reason? That hardly ever happens. The game(s) I play(ed) with a system for kicking people had instances where the whole point was going in with a group to defeat the many bosses and 'roll' on the loot...if there even was any at all. In STO they've pretty much taken the RNG for loot out altogether so without that to worry about there is really 0 reason someone would abuse that system in that way, it's pointless. The STO community that I've played with for the majority is pretty mature and good natured even when it comes to instances and loot. There's bad apples sure, but the general attitude is much better than a lot of MMO's I've played. If anything I feel a 'kick' system would be even less abused here than in any other game I'm familiar with. I don't see the reason for 'need/greed' either, just 'roll/pass' should be perfectly fine.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Agreed.
I hope they change it back to how it was before. I really do.
I read Dan's explanation at the beginning of the thread, and "We want you to play it like how we originally wanted you to" just doesn't cut it. Sorry.
well the whole point to my post was i was saying i liked the idea of a kick system modified like u mentioned with a window for doing it
and i have played games where kicking at the last second happened to me personally. it was team play and my team won, and the person that created the room we were in kicked me at the last second, i guess cause i got more kills than him idk. and we were on the same team btw
so there are always jerks, and a lot of them need no reason other than they are just jerks. u dont have to say or do anything to them personally, they are just that way.
seen it in plenty of games ive played.
as far as STO being better than other games as far as conduct goes.... idk, if it really was i dont think afking in STFs and FAs would be a problem like it is.
i wouldnt bank on the natural good nature of ppl, especially online, since most ppl tend to act online in ways they would never do in real life. i have seen and received chat in games and forums that i doubt anyone would have said to anyone face to face, or even over the phone. its something about the feeling of anonymity the internet provides.
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EDIT:
on a side note also
does the officer report event ingame actually do anything with the foundry missions now that IOR was taken away?
if not it needs to be removed so that a useful event can take its place
-General Chang
Good question.
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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Are you seriously trying to imply that because I'm pointing out previous cases of Cryptic buffoonery related to c-store ships that I'm somehow accepting or excusing it?
I know it's mind numbing but on 6 toon and a booster I can get 13 runs of colony invasion in during bonus event
74 x 13 = 962 marks - doing that 3 times per week which is reasonable = over 2800 marks
5 member fleet = 14,000 marks per week
for a 5 person fleet that would cover EVERY starbase tier 3 to 4 project(900 marks x 3) every single day.
Probably time to close this thread.
In the past that is how it's gone, but something has changed this time around. The movement has come to a collective consciousness that there's more to it than just the latest change. What we're actually upset about is a whole pattern of events, and the removal of fleet marks was just the latest example. Post #2311 on page 232 is a nice quick summary of much of what this is about.
This is the part where you're completely wrong and unfair with Stahl.
Yes the MMO genre is all about grind. Because repetable content is the only way to keep players doing the same thing over and over, and they day they realize they have nothing to do they don't come back, or they come back later but won't be as interested in the game as those who never stopped playing. Returning players are always the first to leave and not to spend money.
If you don't like "grind" well you should reconsider your own purposes: leading your own fleet (really? what's the point, can't you accept to be one among others in a large organization?), achieving your very own goals as soon as possible with a minimal investment in time.
I can tell you that even if people enjoy complaining about the MMOs they play (i've played only one with almost zero player complaint, this was a completely free without any profit game, and it received updtates once every two years) they also keep playing it. Everyone complains, but everyone keeps playing, as if it was a part of the game.
Many people would like to get instant rewards and gratification, but some frustration means the game is doing really well. And i'm not talking about quality of life bugs (they shouldn't exist) but about achieving specific goals. If people complain it's too slow/too hard to get it, it means the devs are successful, because you'll likely keep playing as long as this goal looks achievable.
Grind isn't just a "necessary evil" because devs can't produce content fast enough, it's the very reason why people keep playing such games. Players have long term goals, they want to do x, have y and win z, and as long as they consider it to be doable they'll keep playing. Of course as soon as it doesn't look achievable anymore people start to quit or create massive rant threads, like this one, but frustration and grind are exactly why MMOs are popular. Because you'll do whatever you have to do to get what you really want.
As a conclusion there is no MMO without grind. Because it can't exist, or it won't be as successful, or it relies on completely different mechanics (addictions, greed, sex, like second life) and it's not really a game.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Ahem, Eve, would like to have a word with you. Its a MMO, where is the "grind"
+1 to this.
like i said many pages ago i dont read every comment or page of this thread and cryptic should write down every idea that is on this thread and see which one works the best with people in this mmo
You will not be called 'sir' for the purpose of this text log. You will also not be treated fairly due to your unfair treatment and dishonorable conduct. With that being said, your actions are typical of metagamers who want everything, and want it now. A grand majority of this ENTIRE thread is nothing but give this to us now! do this! do that! make it better! fix everything! test everything 64 times because if you do you won't have a bug/glitch!
You people seriously think that's how any large game works? Think again and ask the intellectual, easygoing, and gentlemanly friend of yours that tolerates your presence about EverQuest. That was a game with ABSOLUTELY ZERO COMMUNICATION between players and developers/coders. This game has problems. Every game has problems. There will NEVER be a game that does not come without bugs, glitches, exploits, clipping issues, and those blasted cavebats. Expecting perfection with more than one person is redundant.
The Foundry was being abused for fleet marks, that much is clear. I've seen zone chat many times where people stated they somehow exploiting out 2k marks in half an hour. If none of you think IOR being removed is legitimate and STILL pointing fingers, might wanna ask some people in your fleet about those extra 100k FC's every half-hour/hour.
Get over it, some changes were made, and FM's are now easier than ever. I approve of STO greatly, even with all it's funny little bugs that don't need to be fixed. Scavenge Dead Targ, indeed.
I want to bring this forward again so everyone has a chance to read it. Click the link to go back to the main post. Very articulate and well-written.
Cryptic... Devs: Heed my words. Heed OUR words: We don't want to play Grind Trek anymore. This is the FIRST weekend where I haven't spent the majority of my time in-game -- I just can't grind anymore.
In order to get an entire set of Elite gear for just one toon... I did the calculations the amount of time required is STAGGERING. Even if I spread the dilth grind across all of my toons we're looking at FOUR MONTHS of grinding to refine cap every day. That's not counting the staggering number of Fleet Marks I need to pour into a Starbase to generate the required Fleet Credits.
And this is just ONE toon. If I dedicate my time to running THIS grind how am I supposed to find time to grind my other two main toons? Borg gear? Out of the question! STFs are broken again... I'm getting one-shot'd with ALARMING frequency again. I can't even get past 9.9KM at times without getting blasted by a 250K crit.
Romulan Marks... you folks seem to have a very strange perception of just what the duties of a Vice Admiral entail -- I can count on one hand the number of times I saw a flag-officer chip-and-paint with the rest of us when I served... and those three occasions were staged photo-ops. Fact is, the New Rom Bunny Hunt and Click The Broken Machines grind is far more suited to ENTRY LEVEL players than end-game players!
There is an idea... reset the New Rom missions as an entry-level grind for new players. This allows new folks to get a taste of the good gear and it gets them to level up to endgame where they may be willing to spend money on premium content.
As it stands now I am on the verge of uninstalling the game... Putting all that effort into a grind for a set of gear is just heart-breaking.
This is not the Star Trek I started watching in 1975. This is not the Star Trek I wrote two novels for. No, this is NOT the Star Trek I wrote RPG supplements for either.
As a First Generation Trekker, I am appalled at what this has become. Simply appalled.
I'm tempted to sit down and write out a short-story based on a classic TNG episode but substitute grind mechanics for storytelling.
Picture the scene in Best Of Both Worlds where Riker and the crew are discussing potential weapons -- "The heavy gravaton beam looks promising but we simply do not have enough Fleet Marks to acquire all three pieces before the Borg reach Earth!"
Cryptic: Heed my words. The end is nearer than you think... and you are bringing it upon yourselves. Stop, reflect on what is being said here... and get back on track before you end up a footnote in Wikipedia under "Star Trek Games."
Try reading the legitimate grievances before making such comments. This has gone beyond simple fleet marks.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
No, you're completely and utterly wrong. There was a *lot* of communication in EQ, since release, and there still is. I have no idea where you got that impression. You want lack of comms, go to the swtor forums...
And that is also utterly incorrect. Grind exists in MMO's ONLY because real content cannot be produced as fast as it is consumed. That's it. Grind is tested and repeatable content that can keep people occupied until the next new batch is created. Nothing more. And there's nothing terribly wrong with that, although I wonder why the now ancient tries of AO's mission terminals never went further. (STO's random explore system missions are actually a good try at this too, but lack the customizability and randomization.)
There is no MMO without grind just because developers and companies have fallen onto it as a safe point. Content is king, queen, and executioner, and is what drives MMOs. The day a bunch of devs manage to get that AI to program stories-to-go, mmo's will forever shuck this stupid grindfest and maybe get on with being fun.
The doors, Mister Scott!
Because right now, its either help your fleet or your own reputation. I only ask for enough dilithium to do both. Fleet and Omega marks are fine, but we need Romulan mark increase. (Perhaps Elite romulan instances, like with STFS?)
I have ten level 50 characters, but I could only get the mark XII sets on Two out of Ten. For the other eight, I'm too tired to do it.
I don't want to get rid of the reputation system, just wish for a bit reduced costs in terms of resources it costs.
Actually I want it to be improved. What about a Elite Antiproton space weapons for Omega Tier VI ? An elite Quantum torpedo for Omega Tier VII? A romulan armor plate console at romulan reputation Tier VI?
There are a lot of fun stuff you can add that way, that do not take that much programming and resources wise. (I modded games, I know its easier to add a special type of already existing item then make fully new content)
My advice of Elite Antiproton space weapons for a future omega update is not only easy resource and code wise, but the Omega force already has ground AP weapons to be unlocked, so its not unreasonable.
Lowering the grind, and perhaps giving Lifetime and subscribers free new character slots every ...lets say every Two months would really let them have new characters too, which would keep them in game too.
Making a new character and outfitting it to top gear was one of the fun things I had. But then the bad, nasty dilithium addition to the Crafting took all the craftable gear away, so I stopped crafting.
Now with the rep system, its just too slow. If it was not for role-play, I would have dissapeared for Skyrim months ago.
Grinding is okey in a game, but a little fine tuning it may not hurt in order to please your customers, Mr Stahl. Remember... Happy costumers are more likely to buy your products.
DELTA PRICE RISING
But there's a difference between repeatable content and life-sucking grind, and this game has moved well onto the side of the latter. We should be able to get a reasonable quantity of our grinds done in a fairly small fraction of our playing time, and they should be drawn out primarily by project cooldowns. There actually is a little bit of this with the reputation stuff, which had a relatively efficient project that you could do the whole thing with if you wanted, and a less efficient project you could use to supplement that if you wanted to.
Put it this way. We've heard before that they think their average player logs on 2-3 times a week for about 3 hours each time. That's 6-9 hours per week. As it stands, if you play the most efficient content possible for all of that time and buy a fair bit of dilithium on the dilithium exchange you're still not going to be a very good contributor to your fleet and keep your Reputation going. Now, that doesn't sound like a very active player to me, but I would say that if you log on every day for two hours you should be able to finish your grind in less than half of the time you play, probably around a third, or you should be able to play any content you want to do your grinding. That way you have time left to play any content you like, instead of having to do the same thing someone else says to over and over again. And if you want to get quicker progression with loads of time on your hands there should be those less efficient missions available to do that.
Wrong, the MMO genre is all about keeping people playing and having fun. So to keep people playing you create systems and content that are compelling and you ENSURE that content that must be repeated is kept fresh and entertaining.
You see here is where you have failed to understand one of the major issues with all MMO's and that is that there is a balancing act going on where you have to have players repeating things to extend the life of content but at the same time have to ensure that the repetition doesn't drive people away.
You talk of having nothing to do "driving people away" I talk about not having fun in game driving people away, much of that comes down to the same boring repetitive content. You see this is where your objectivity is lacking, you argue that not having things to do makes people leave yet you don't acknowledge that boredom from having repetition is equally a reason.
I don't play anymore because the grind is no fun and I frankly don't have the time to log in for 3 hours a day to keep things ticking over so rather than attempt to do so I simply don't play at all.
No the point is I want to be part of something that has a social reward, I want to be around friends I want to contribute and I want the thing I am contributing to to have meaning. Human beings in general gain satisfaction and emotional return from feeling part of a close-knit thing, for being known and knowing other peoples within that thing. Being part of a large fleet just so I can get shinnies has no interest for me at all. Being part of a community of friends working to build something together is utterly compelling. It's just a shame that for casual gamers STO's system prohibits this.
For me personally, I've never had any serious complaints in the way Turbine manage their MMO offerings or any complaints about lack of enjoyable repeatable content in DDO or LOTRO. Simple as that. DDO has never made me feel like it was boring or developed by group that was amateurish in it's internal and external communication and organisation.
And this is where cryptic have failed the goals are simply not achievable in any sensible time for a person who can't devote 3 hours a day to the game. That's why they are failing to retain people like me who frankly don't have the time. This is also a major problem with the fleet system a group of close friends of say 5-10 in number have no chance to advancing their fleet by playing for 6 hours together on the weekend. One of the aims for fleets was for friends to join together and have fun in game and rep the rewards for teamwork, this as an aim has been left unfulfilled.
Lol "not really a game" I suppose Chess isn't a game either give me a break this is where your mask slips entirely because the idea that grind is the core component of a game and anything that has different mechanics "is not a game" is frankly a hilarious comment. I won't bother breaking it down because most people can see your statement for what it is.
That's the thing about MMO's too, an MMO keeps it's players when it has emotional meaning for the players, when they get a buzz from playing when they feel like they can achieve things. However with STO this is no longer the case for many people like myself. I think also for a lot of those who are here because it's Star Trek we have a general and increasing dislike for the game and it's mechanics and how with each passing patch it's getting further and further away from what we want our Star Trek Online experience to be.
2311, 2316, 2700, read them.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
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The fact is the foundry didn't need to be touched your "goals" are contrary to the fun of the players.
You haven't fixed the Crystalline Entity issue, you haven't fixed the STF glitches in the Hive yet that make it IMPOSSIBLE to beat. Yet you constantly TRIBBLE up the things that actually make the game worth playing.
I really don't understand why you developers keep doing this.
What needs to be done: Return the repeatable investigative officer report with fleet mark bonus.
Add new Episode Content that has actual story. Not this idiotic grind and go system you've created with the Borg Invasion planet, the Tholian Invasion Planet, and new Romulus.
Fix all the stupid glitches, broken missions, broken stfs, etc before doing anything else to the game.
Fix the economy so that the exchange isn't so bloated.
Oh...and start respecting your players.
The thing is this, removing the fleet marks wasn't your worst mistake in this, although it was very ill-conceived. The worst and most intolerable part was the blatant disrespect you've shown us. Not only did you treat our concerns as trivial in dastahl's second post but then you completely ignored our outcry since. This is insulting. You really should learn to listen to your players and atleast make an effort to correct your mistakes.
Since you obviously don't value our financial support, you leave me no choice but to withdraw mine.
I generally spend my day playing this game..... as a retiree, I have loads of time. I have also spent the majority of my entertainment funds here for the last 80 days. I have 3 toons maxed and am a member of the small fleets getting shafted with this. The effort to gain suitable amounts of fleet marks was already more than the rewards justified but this new situation is just plain ridiculous. After reading a great many of the posts contained here, I simply can not support a company that would treat their source of income so badly.
As stated before, there is a lesson to be learned here. I strongly urge you to learn it Cryptic before you go the way of so many before you.
1) MMOs have grind. The best ones hide it the most. Devs cannot possibly add content as fast as people consume it (remember Season 2 when they added 8 KDF episodes and people were done within that many days?)
2) Where is the content? It's coming. The May update (which I'm still calling Season 8 until Cryptic actually gives it the formal name) will likely have a feature episode series, revamped KDF tutorial, and (one can only hope) content for levels 0-20. They've already stated they want another adventure zone in Tau Dewa. For more info, stay tuned to http://www.stowiki.org/Upcoming. Stahl has said they will begin giving more details at the end of March.
3) AFKers in maps. This has been a problem with fleet actions, STFs, and most recently the fleet mark events. Stahl has stated in this past week STOked Radio interview they are working on a vote-to-kick option. I don't expect this to happen instantly, but it'd be best if it comes before May.
4) The long list of grievances besides fleet marks. Yes, we know them. I bet you Cryptic knows them. I wasn't expecting them to all be solved, or even addressed, within a few days of the Feb 14 patch.
5) The fun factor. The changes to the Foundry make it pretty easy to get dilithium and even energy credits now. With the Feb 21 boost, even respectable amounts of fleet marks can be obtained. These are the three magic ingredients to upgrade your starbase. If it's still going slow, I don't think there's much that's going to happen to help your fleet.
6) Reputation system. This can be completed in about 36 days of projects. The amount of marks needed was surprisingly few (under 1900?). Since the separation between Season 7 and 8 is about 6 months, I'm not sure what more you could want in terms of XP advancement. They had already cut the time by half. The dilithium costs *are* too high for items since the dilithium cap is 8000.
7) Dilithium cap. Stahl has said that people are making more dilithium, which they want, and would raise the cap as people make more. There are a number of pros/cons to raising the cap. Pros would be people would likely play more if they can get dilithium and refine it that day. Happier players are less frustrated. The only two cons I can think of don't affect the players but rather Cryptic and PWE: it'd cost the dil/zen price to rise (thus, people would need to buy less zen from PWE to obtain dilithium) and players wouldn't need to log on as many days because they could refine as much dilithium in a smaller timeframe. So in other words it's money and possible decrease in play sessions they're waiting more heavily than player satisfaction and longer play sessions.
8) Tribble Test Server. Please, please, please test things for at least 48 hours. If testers identify bugs, hold the patch! That would help this game's stability so much and would at least make people feel like they're being listened to.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
The lies we've been told are legion and subject of several STO Wiki pages. What we will end up with are more grind maps, grind-for-content, and 1 and 2 line "lore rewards."
If you really REALLY think they are going back to an episodic format you are sadly mistaken. May... we'll end up with a huge amount of content, but we'll have to grind to unlock it.
Yep that's the end of the game right there. AFK'rs are bad enough but this will result in such severe abuse the game will be nigh-unplayable.
How confident do you feel there won't be any feature episodes coming in the next few months? I'd take that bet up
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
The problem here is the replay value of Cryptics content is poor. The issue is not so much that grind exists but how it exists and is implemented in STO.
Firstly the systems that require missions to be grinded are unbalanced. This is a simple fact and the reason behind players looking for a solution by using Grinder missions and also the reason behind Cryptic increasing the volume of fleet marks. The problem is most of the other currency systems are unbalanced too.
Secondly the missions that people must repeat are often poor in terms of replay value because they offer little change or variation in experience. Let me give you an example from DDO, look at the Ruins of Gianthold adventure area. There are a total of 11 quests where all of them have internal and external variation that is to say they are different in style and content from one another and when you replay depending on the team you have assembled and their skills you will have a different experience.
In STO we simply don't have content that has that variation which makes it fun to replay. The only mission that for me even comes close is Infected Ground Elite and even that is relatively stodgy and linear.
You see look at the New Romulus adventure zone, if that was more like Gianthold where you had at least 6 VA level missions with different styles and puzzles in more open maps which you had to team with other players to complete and which required the presence of Tactical, Science and Engineering players to complete, they would have real replay value and then grinding Romulan marks would actually be fun.
Whether Cryptic have the manpower or the Engine has the capability (which it should if Neverwinter is ever going to have a chance to get anywhere close to DDO) is a different matter.
What Cryptic have hinted at for Season 8, is quite honestly disappointing, what is the use of any of this if the content we have to repeat to progress is simply not fun to repeat over and over. Whilst I enjoy episode series they have little replay value and do not tie into the reputation systems.
Honestly I've not come into contact with this problem, but usually I play in premade groups rather than use public queues. However all the solutions that have been mentioned in my opinion cause more harm than they intend to solve. Vote to Kick is far too easy to abuse, for example I and some other trolls in it for the lulz could form a 3 man group and queue in public the two randoms that join us would then be at our mercy (could be 4:1 if it needs 4 votes to kick). We could just AFK ourselves with no fear of being kicked or we could play the mission out and kick players at the end before they get their loot or rewards.
To be honest I don't like any of the AFK fixes precisely because it will create far more powerful means to grief than it solves.
Of course there are more intelligent ways to attempt to fix the issue but nothing is full proof. For example you could have a hybrid system where the option to kick only pops up after a player is inactive for more than say 5 minutes. However even this is exploitable by AFK'rs who use Macros.
I don't think anyone expected them to be, however it has served to harden up most of what was before relatively ephemeral player dissatisfaction and now many of us are looking into a permanent movement to improve the game through constructive criticism and solutions.
As you state in your post below Dilithium is still capped and the reality is it is still in short supply due to the new sinks in the game that put pressure on players to do acquire other currencies as well as spend what dilithium they have on expensive personal reputation shops. All of this is reflected in the changed exchange rate of Dilithium:Zen.
The first issue with the reputation system is the time-gates. 36 days of projects for someone like me who may only get on for a few hours on Saturday during weekend would equal 36 weeks. Many of us work hard in our lives and when we get home we want to relax we don't take kindly to be forced into logging onto a game in order to have some chance of progressing in a sensible amount of time. It is far better to have a system where I can play on the weekend and know I can advance 1/2 a Tier or more in that weekend. Point here is Time-Gates are bad for casual players.
The result of the time gates for me was this, I played less on the weekends, that's all it did because there was no reason for me to play more as I hit the glass ceiling of the time gate. In Season 6 I could play maybe 6 or 7 hours on a Saturday usually trying to get Purple Tech, but it kept me coming back and I made a lot of friends on the STF channels.
I agree with you that the Dilithium costs of shop items are too much, as is the cost in term of Marks for shop items.
The point is that the Reputation system is simply terrible for casual players who cannot log in regularly to play. I'm guessing quite a large core of the paying demographic of this game work 5 days a week. Making it hard for us to enjoy the game is going to drive us away.
As I said before with my above post, since Season 7 I have failed to reach the 8k cap, I simply don't believe what Stahl says and as he never backs it up with sourced evidence I have no reason to. I know a lot of people in game only reach cap by using an exploit in the game that I won't divulge. However the reality for me was that this restriction didn't make me want to log in every day to hit my cap it just made me decide the game wasn't worth it.
I cannot stress this enough a lot of the crappy bugs and poor balancing that hits holodeck could be reduced if they gave Tribble testers time to report feedback and if that feedback was actually listened to.
For a weekly patch there should be 7 days testing on Tribble for a Season Update there should at least be a month. Juts look at the disaster that was Season 7 when it first hit holodeck, totally unbalanced systems ridiculous lack of dilithium in STF's...
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
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#2 makes it sound like you're against feature episodes as they currently are and any kind of non-storyline repeatable content. That means without #1 there's pretty much nothing to do.
#3 AFK issue I still am in a "wait and see" mentality. There's conflicting reports from players over "oh no, this is a terrible idea" to "it's really not exploited much at all in games where you don't compete for rolls at end". We don't know anything about Cryptic's vote system -- perhaps it's only for the first 5 minutes, or up to a certain point? Or maybe it will only let you vote on someone if certain criteria are met? We don't know.
#4 This would make sense but reading the hundreds of posts in this thread after the Feb 21 patch make it seem like people were shocked Cryptic didn't announce some grand plan to solve everything.
#6 I think 36 "days" of projects is rather generous to fully max out a system. Could you imagine if a starbase could be totally maxed out after 1,000,000 fleet marks without a time gate? The 500 man fleets would need 2000 per person and some people would be sitting on Tier 5 starbases after a week and then saying "now what do we do?". Alas, if you only logged in on Saturday and Sunday each week to start the reputation projects (which in terms of marks is very, very cheap -- EC it's non-trivial for many) -- you'd be done in 18 weeks. That's over 4 months to from Tier 0 to Tier 5 but then the duty officer commendation system took people several months to max out originally as well. Since we're currently 6 months between seasons that gives one plenty of time to have accrued very large quantities of marks and dilithium and then buy whatever they want with the 2 minute store projects.
Goals that take more than a day or a week are not innately bad in an MMO. It just doesn't make sense to have you become the Romulans' best friend from a long weekend of running mark missions -- a reputation takes some degree of time to develop.
#8 As a word of caution, most seasons are actually tested for a month on Tribble. Though they're also patched numerous times throughout. That still doesn't excuse Cryptic from not responding to Tribble players' feedback before it hits Holodeck.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Yes and more importantly that they are team based and not solo play and that they are tied into the currency and systems via end-rewards and have genuine replay value.
more accurately I am against mission content that has little replay value, However I am a realist Cryptic are a relatively small development house and STO simply doesn't have the resources to build the sheer depth of repayable team based mission content that say DDO has. The main point here is no content and poor content have much the same effect on people I.e. they get bored and move on. So for me I see no difference between Story missions that people finish in a week and never play again and no content at all. Like you said the KDF missions were finished in a week. I'd much rather Cryptic devoted time to re-playable diverse story missions that require teaming and have rewards tied to to systems and progressions at End-Game.
Indeed, in general though from what I've seen of Vote-to-Kick systems is they introduce more griefing than they solve. But you are right we should wait to see exactly how they do this, though considering the lack of creativity displayed when the team were deciding how to implement guilds I am not holding my breath.
I've not noticed that most of the posts I've read here, the ones that I remember (and I've read nearly all of them) tend to be relatively realistic in their appraisal of what needs to be done going forwards. There is no magic wand in this instance and in addition I don't think you can ask too much from such a small team even if as we are told it has "doubled" it's staff.
36 Days being generous all depends on the average time a person is able to play per week. The main issue here is that there is a relatively diverse playerbase, there are those that play all day every day and are either unemployed or annuitants others who play a lot on the weekend and others like me who play when they can, when we can fit it around work. Honestly I don't think they have the balance right. With regards to fleets I think we all know that most other games have a scaling solutions to deal with this, STO just doesn't have a development team creative enough to come up with a proper scaled solution.
I agree but this isn't the issue with STO, the issue with STO is that it takes months of playing poor quality boring content. If you were playing fun repeated content that remained fresh achieving a goal over a matter of a month or two wouldn't be a problem for most. But when I log in look at my Romulan reputation see how long it takes to do just 1 tier and the boring content (which pays very little in marks) one must do to progress, I just fell like not bothering at all.
The problem was Season 7 wasn't tested over a month at all, only bits of the finished the Season were tested, other parts didn't even get a chance at being tested.
What was needed was a full month for the finished project to be tested.
::An important note for those who are interested in a more long term sustained debate and action, please contact me via PM I have already got a number of players on-board, I will keep the consultation open to interested parties for one more week, after that point discussions with how to move forwards will take place, people are of course free to join in at any point but to have your say early on is crucial we want this to be as community driven as possible::
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