I've played STO since it came out, subbing off and on; have never posted in the forums, and have been fairly content to sit back and let the developers work there magic, as they have done a good job in my eyes.
I see this group of people that just goes after the developers though, and whoever is at the helm. Thing is, I highly doubt almost any of you that verbally chastise and burn the devs have ever delivered a piece of software, or any information technology related product for that matter.
I am a Program Manager for a major corporation in the US and manage five different application development efforts; and the complexity behind developing serious software is incredible.
Someone will ask for a simple fix to an item for instance, or perhaps a change in behavior, and then wonder why something so simple takes months to complete.
Here's why:
If I have an application that displays content based on information in a database (keeping in mind I don't know the tech specs on STO, but there have to be multiple DBs plugged into it); there's four specific phases I have to go through.
1. Engineer the Solution - How do we accomplish the task? Before any code is written, you have to document what your going to do, how your going to do it, and clear that with the other stakeholders (database admins/devs, systems engineers etc)
2. Create the solution - depending on how STO's dev tempo functions (I remember reading something about them using Agile), if they use Agile they'll create a series of user stories that describe the desired function for the developers and a developer will pick up the assignment. Spikes may be assosicated with it for research or guidance from other groups - say the solution requires adding tables to an existing database; that's external work. Eventually, the code gets written.
3. Test the solution - This is accomplished both by human and computer based tests; there are automated software testing tools (junit comes to mind) that are used to test code, but then humans must do regression and functional testing. bugs are found. They must be fixed. Then you test again. So on and so forth.
Eventually you get to deploy the solution which is step 4.
And then if it doesn't work just quite right, someone who's looking to hurl abuse tells you and your entire team your an idiot and lying to them.
Take a step back. Go read up on how software is developed. And if you think you can do it better, apply to work at Cryptic or go create your own game. Be a part of the solution, not the problem.
If these guys are anything like the crew of developers that work for me, they put in many hours of unpaid OT, stay up till midnight working issues, and do it willingly because they love what they're doing.
Being beat up constantly by the consumers of the thing that they create is the fastest way to cause them to lose morale and quit.
Step 3 in your process is what is broken at PWE/Crytpic.
And yes I have produced code and tech solutions for my company which is International in scope so I do the things I post about every single day and I too work very long hours each day.
As far as PWE/Cryptic's QA/Testing process goes, they don't listen to the testers feedback that they get from the Tribble Test server. If fact getting any kind of response to their Bug reporting system is almost impossible.
So there are a lot of us that are Technical professionals here and that is why we do know how to correct the problems we find in the code they are producing.
Remember they (PWE/Cryptic) does put the code on their test server and they do ask for the feedback, but they are also the ones that ignore that feedback on bugs found and release it anyway to production.
Now step back and think where the real issue is...
Customers that are asked to help or a Company that ignores the help it asked for?
I for one will give them constructive feedback and report bugs, but if the process is broken, or ignored, then getting defective code is the only result left.
Zeus (Network/Computer Engineer with over 34 years of experience)
What everyone here is describing applies to the engineering of physical goods as well.
My field of work, if we released a buggy or defective product lives would be on the line. Entire communities could face power-outages. Delicate equipment could be destroyed.
If a unit fails for any reason you better believe we have that unit back in the shop and torn apart, and we figure out why it failed. We don't sit there and tell the customer "Yeah this is our best year ever we got GREAT buzz in all the trade rags -- now buy more product from us everything is working as intended."
I too can buy buzz. And I suspect Cryptic did just that. Because frankly with the absolutely abysmal "entry level" graphic issues and AI bugs no one in their right mind wants to slog through to the endgame.
Then once you get to the endgame... it's grind grind grind no story progression no advancement past level cap... just grind over and over and over.
I am calling for the delay of the next season. Push it back a year. Put everyone on bugfix duty. Spend money on setting up a quality system and train employees to use it. Use this time to generate simple story missions to test your quality-assurance skills. When you can successful turn around a ticket in 24 hours or less... and when you can point to an error-free entry-level experience... then AND ONLY THEN are you ready to move on to the next season.
Season Seven has exposed serious flaws in Cryptic's internal process. They clearly are not ready to expand into the "next phase" of STO's evolution. Not with the utter lack of quality assurance I am seeing!
I've played STO since it came out, subbing off and on; have never posted in the forums, and have been fairly content to sit back and let the developers work there magic, as they have done a good job in my eyes.
I see this group of people that just goes after the developers though, and whoever is at the helm. Thing is, I highly doubt almost any of you that verbally chastise and burn the devs have ever delivered a piece of software, or any information technology related product for that matter.
I am a Program Manager for a major corporation in the US and manage five different application development efforts; and the complexity behind developing serious software is incredible.
Someone will ask for a simple fix to an item for instance, or perhaps a change in behavior, and then wonder why something so simple takes months to complete.
Here's why:
If I have an application that displays content based on information in a database (keeping in mind I don't know the tech specs on STO, but there have to be multiple DBs plugged into it); there's four specific phases I have to go through.
1. Engineer the Solution - How do we accomplish the task? Before any code is written, you have to document what your going to do, how your going to do it, and clear that with the other stakeholders (database admins/devs, systems engineers etc)
2. Create the solution - depending on how STO's dev tempo functions (I remember reading something about them using Agile), if they use Agile they'll create a series of user stories that describe the desired function for the developers and a developer will pick up the assignment. Spikes may be assosicated with it for research or guidance from other groups - say the solution requires adding tables to an existing database; that's external work. Eventually, the code gets written.
3. Test the solution - This is accomplished both by human and computer based tests; there are automated software testing tools (junit comes to mind) that are used to test code, but then humans must do regression and functional testing. bugs are found. They must be fixed. Then you test again. So on and so forth.
Eventually you get to deploy the solution which is step 4.
And then if it doesn't work just quite right, someone who's looking to hurl abuse tells you and your entire team your an idiot and lying to them.
Take a step back. Go read up on how software is developed. And if you think you can do it better, apply to work at Cryptic or go create your own game. Be a part of the solution, not the problem.
If these guys are anything like the crew of developers that work for me, they put in many hours of unpaid OT, stay up till midnight working issues, and do it willingly because they love what they're doing.
Being beat up constantly by the consumers of the thing that they create is the fastest way to cause them to lose morale and quit.
Think about that.
v/r
Joseph
This is quite hilarious, coming from someone who has also worked in the industry and knowing several project managers at large companies like Logica, I can tell you for a fact that if you do work in the industry you've led a very sheltered life.
Projects often get done very badly full of bugs and not meeting spec at all due to sales management being too aggressive with promises on deadlines to clients. The NHS backbone is a good example or the perpetually in development and never finished EU version of GPS (Autobahn) which was run so badly that it actually went through several version of Fortran LOL!
Please, step back a moment for yourself and tell me do you seriously believe that developers never get things wrong and continue regardless because of the short term profit pressures?
Simply put defending the behaviour and processes of Cryptic concerning this game is a battle you won't win not because were are determined to accuse them of things but because they are doing these things. We aren't just making this up you know.
I never said bugs aren't introduced. Software is /full/ of bugs.
I am saying that hurling abuse at developers isn't the right way to address it.
Someone made a point of saying that software is on deadlines and that introduces unfixed bugs - that's aboslutely correct; sometimes you accept that there are specific bugs and move forward because the whole is better than the bug.
Cryptic is a group of developers within a larger company (PW); clearly they have internal deadlines, and since its commerical, if there's no profit, there's no money to pay people and the project folds.
I do have to say I find it hard to believe that the developers are just blowing off serious bug reports from Tribble.
I can see blowing off poorly submitted bug reports, but not serious, well documented bugs.
Perhaps I have more faith in STO's devs that everyone else, but considering the state of the game in open beta to now, its come a long way and I've been impressed with what they've accomplished given the resources they have.
Again though - to the folks hurling abuse, why not put in an application with PWE? Go help fix the problem.
I never said bugs aren't introduced. Software is /full/ of bugs.
I am saying that hurling abuse at developers isn't the right way to address it.
Someone made a point of saying that software is on deadlines and that introduces unfixed bugs - that's aboslutely correct; sometimes you accept that there are specific bugs and move forward because the whole is better than the bug.
Cryptic is a group of developers within a larger company (PW); clearly they have internal deadlines, and since its commerical, if there's no profit, there's no money to pay people and the project folds.
I do have to say I find it hard to believe that the developers are just blowing off serious bug reports from Tribble.
I can see blowing off poorly submitted bug reports, but not serious, well documented bugs.
Perhaps I have more faith in STO's devs that everyone else, but considering the state of the game in open beta to now, its come a long way and I've been impressed with what they've accomplished given the resources they have.
Again though - to the folks hurling abuse, why not put in an application with PWE? Go help fix the problem.
That is exactly what PWE/Cryptic is doing with the bug reports! The testers on Tribble have been giving this kind of bug reporting for years and PWE/Cryptic continues to ignore them by releasing the code into production time and time again.
This is just one of the many problems but it is a major one that the lack of any kind of proper QA there is causing!
As far as applying for a job there, well I like living in Texas and I like the company I work for and the retirement plan I have coming. I don't think PWE/Cryptic could match my salary or provide the above.
I am here because I love Star Trek, not because I like PWE/Cryptic!
And we are trying to help them using the vehicle they are providing (Tribble/Forums).
It is PWE/Cryptic that chooses to ignore the help they asked for!
Zeus (Network/Computer Engineer with over 34 years of experience)
I do have to say I find it hard to believe that the developers are just blowing off serious bug reports from Tribble.
I can see blowing off poorly submitted bug reports, but not serious, well documented bugs.
Perhaps I have more faith in STO's devs that everyone else, but considering the state of the game in open beta to now, its come a long way and I've been impressed with what they've accomplished given the resources they have.
Disbelieve all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Tribble is a joke at the moment. Either patches get so little testing (see the last few days) that there is no time to spot bugs, or bugs that are identified make it through to Holodeck anyway (Bioneural / TDD being borked, rebellious Boffs, 2 minute universal CD and other major problems were all caught on Tribble but went to the live server despite countless reports).
The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.
Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.
Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.
Thanks, this time for the honesty, most of us knew this and lets be even more honest this was the exact same issue with Season and the Reputation system it was rushed and Tribble was ignored. The result was an unbalanced system which in many ways is still too expensive but back at launch was so ridiculously unbalanced that it didn't take long for the player base to force you into changes.
This isn't a one off mistake, it's a pattern you guys have of delivering patches to Holodeck that haven't been properly tested or evaluated and the result is unbalanced systems and bug after bug.
In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.
Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.
I think you need to admit that the "exploitation" that occurred was more a natural attempt by the players to fix the lack of balance in the Fleet Mark system... I categorically state that people were not doing it for the "lulz" or to gain super gamebreaking advantages over other players, they were doing it to feed the starved supply of fleet marks.
The entire problem was created by Cryptic. In addition you are right if you felt you needed to resolve the issue of a broken Fleet Marks system the solution should have been added before you removed the community created solution to the problem. That is what it was Dan it was our solution for your broken system.
I sympathize with you when you say you don't feel good when you make mistakes. None of us who have stressful jobs do when we get things wrong. However Dan the issue here is you and the team are making the same mistakes over and over and honestly it's time you learned from your mistakes and ensure they don't happen again.
Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.
Honestly this is a bit of a straw man, I think very few have made overly harsh comments or anything that was worthy of a forum ban. The rest of us have only highlighted the truth, I guess one could say my words have been harsh or at any rate my criticism, but the thing is my business relies on reputation Dan, if I get things wrong consistently as you guys have I would be out of business very very quickly and people would view my work as amateurish or unprofessional, so when you guys do that, that is what I think about your work.
You might say it's harsh, I'd say it's honest and I think if you did some soul-searching and thought about this a little more your admission that the team failed to communicate both externally and internally amongst other departments is really unprofessional. Whilst I understand the team might be working really hard, if you really took the due care an attention you are meant to be taking these errors would not occur. This also serves to hint at a pattern of rushed production and half finished work and ideas.
Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
Dan we are not frustrated with you as a human being but the practices and poor organization that underlay the the problems that occur on Holodeck which have become a pattern of the same issues showing up; bugs, system imbalance and ignoring Tribble Testers.
We understand your team is devoting time in their lives to producing this game. However you need to understand not only do we pour many hours in our lives into playing the game we also work just as hard as you do in our own jobs and that income is what goes into your game as well. Not only do we put time into your game we also put in money into it Dan.
No doubt you can see just how much money I have put into this game and how little I have recently.
While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy[ing] month after month increases in new captains.
Look Dan, we can't authenticate the information and simply taking your word on it isn't good enough in the UK we've had problems with contaminated meat because people simply took others at their word. However what I can authenticate is the genuine concerns and issues many of us have with this game and that is epitomized by this thread and the number of views and posts it has received. However perhaps in the future we as a community can do our own market research about customer satisfaction with this game that is publishable and open.
Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.
So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.
Dan, whether the game is here for any period of time comes down to the players and what you do to make their experience of the game worth coming back for at the moment for a number of us that is not the case. It not so much that you tarnished yourselves with the last issue but that the issue is just part of a continued pattern of systemic failures in communication, testing and design.
Ultimately Dan our perspective is very simple, we want to have fun, I speak for a demographic that works hard and has family commitments. We come back from work and want to relax your game has to offer something to us that makes us want to log on. At the moment we don't get that. Tell me after a hard days work Dan would you come home and play a game that you felt was more like work than play?
This is the problem Dan, part of your job is communicating with us, it is of little surprise that the community has criticized you for you poor communication when it seems you don't even deem it to be part of your job.
Maybe this was just a throw-away remark at the end of your post that you didn't think about but the Freudian implications concerned me a little.
First, "many people aren't happy" is a matter of perspective. There are certainly people that aren't happy, but there are also many people that are happy. You simply can't make an MMO that pleases every single person all the time. What you can do, is work to grow the game and make tough decisions about what is good for the game right now.
No Dan, as this thread has evidenced it's not a simple matter of perspective especially when you consider your own admission to a pattern of work that adds bugs and imbalance into the game.
A holy grail of live MMO development is to improve growth, retention, and revenue. STO has managed to do all of these things thanks to the tough decisions that were made. Did it make everyone happy? No, but it did improve the game, year over year.
Your unprofessional-ism, rushed patches and resultant constant bugs and problems with systems which you yourself have admitted to would point to the fact that your are starting to lose core customers like myself. Once again though we have no proof in growth and I certainly cannot see an improvement from Season 6 to Season 7.
I can see how your decisions may have improved revenue by playing on peoples natural propensity to gamble. But consider this I started playing August, and by February I am not really playing at all, this is not unique to me but a common thread amongst quite a number of players. Our qualitative evidence has an authentic proven source at the moment we have not such authenticity for your quantitative statistical claims. However as I have already said I think it's time the community did some quantitative research of it's own.
And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre.
No Dan, the MMORPG genre is not like that especially for adult audiences, maybe if your key demographic was kids with endless time then you could make that claim and argue that the this is the way the game should be. However your core demographic is middle ages Star Trek fans and may I add I doubt that unless there is a new Star Trek TV series which is genuinely popular you won't be getting in large volume of kids playing.
Our lives and habits do not lead us to enjoy grinding, you know this is true and it's why time and time again the Player Base has forced you to change your broken systems to remove grind. That is what happened in the weeks post Season 7.
You needed to do some proper QA and Tribble Testing over more than just 2 weeks if you ever hope to release an anywhere close to satisfactory update to Holodeck.
It just takes time. And right now, you may not see it, but the team is working extra hard. It is one thing to say that Cryptic pays our salary. But it doesn't really pay for all the late nights and weekends all the salaried employees are working right now. Why are we doing it? Because we are excited. Excited about what we are building. Excited about what we might be able to achieve this year.
It might not seem like much to you, but to us it is a big TRIBBLE deal.
If it is something you care about and take pride in why do consistently release broken patches and updates? We also work hard Dan, we also do overtime and late nights, we deserve better from a product we are looking to seek enjoyment from, not grind or a 2nd job.
In closing Dan I see that two things need to happen to take this game forwards, firstly you guys need to organize yourselves better and start listening to the Tribble testers with more seriousness, also you need to listen to the wider player base and our concerns over how enjoyable the game is, for every 1 of us that is unhappy there are another 5 that feel the same but say nothing.
The second thing that needs to happen is up to use the players and I direct my comments now to my fellow players. We need to organise and agree upon the parts of the game we feel need improvement or re-thinking and focus our efforts in a constructive way into a fruitful dialogue with the Cryptic team. My signature is a good place to start PM me so I can get us organised.
Also, post 2311 in this thread sums up a lot of our concerns about the game is is worth a read.
I posted a lot in this thread before the fleet mark patch-for-the-patch was released.
I considered it, and the sincere apology that followed, a very good start to a more fruitful relationship between the developers and the playerbase.
There has been a lot of to and fro regarding the problems faced by small fleets.
I have a suggestion that I don't think has been posted yet......but if I missed it my apologies.
There is a set of special projects designed explicitally for large fleets. These have fairly large requirements for relatively small rewards.
The thought strikes me that this set of projects could be made dynamic and linked to average fleet size.
There is obviously some new code that has been applied to foundry missions, that calculates the average time taken to complete the mission and rewards dilithium accordingly.
What if a version of that code was applied to those special projects......
Fleet X, over the last two weeks, finishes projects at the rate of one every week. Relatively slowly. Thus the requirements for those special projects drops.
Fleet Y, over the same period, finishes projects every 3 days. Relatively quickly. The requirements for their special projects increases.
This gets past the problem of lowering requitrements for small fleets, a situation obviously exploitable, by shifting the emphasis away from actual fleet size and onto the speed in which a given fleet finishes projects.
By making it dynamic (like the foundry-dil calculation) it can adjust itself in the case that a fleet either gets more active members, or indeed loses active members.
The rewards from such projects are not massive, so it is just a thumb on the scales......but it would allow for some sense of movement for small fleets, while not opening the gates to exploits.
The key would be making the time frame long enough.....say two weeks, or even four.
A big fleet would not want to go through all the rigmarole of kicking members and deliberately slowing down its projects just to get a relatively small reward........but small fleets would get a bit of a boost.
you have proof that real money was used. It could be that cryptic put it in there for they're nearly always the same price 1.3-1.4 mil.
So you think that Cryptic/PWE is taking money out of it's own pocket to plant keys in the exchange?
You ask me to somehow prove that it wasn't the far more likely scenario of someone either purchasing a bundle of keys, getting what they wanted out of a lockbox and then re-selling the leftover keys, or someone that just bought a bunch of keys and decided to sell one to raise some quick capital, but think that your little conspiracy theory somehow makes perfect sense.
Why on Earth would Cryptic be selling keys directly on the Exchange?
Of course I can not 'prove it', but you certainly can't prove your claim, either, and if a Cryptic person came along and told you that they were not directly selling keys, you would probably just claim that that was proof of a cover up.
The reason that several keys are priced in the same bracket is the same reason that any number of things are priced in the same bracket.... People see other people charging what they do and put their items up at a similar price.
If enough people come along and buy the keys, then that is apparently the 'right' price to sell them at.
This isn't really on topic, but the whole thread seems to be off the tracks to some extent.
This is from an interview with Matt Stone, I think this holds true to Star Trek as well.
The success of "South Park" is a stark lesson in the fundamentals of entertainment: if you tell stories that people want to hear, the audience will find you.
This is true no matter how fundamentally the paradigms shift, or how many platforms evolve.
"We've been doing it long enough to figure out that content will ride on top of whatever wave comes along," Mr. Stone said.
Imagine an interview where "South Park" is replaced by Star Trek Online...
And here is how it would generate for years the long term profit you want.
1) Ships, Weapons, Consoles, Bridge Officers, Duty Officers, Costumes [ship and character], etc. for the faction.
a) Available as a player levels up in that faction.
b) Special Z-Store versions
c) Ultra rare versions from your favorite money maker aka Lockboxes
d) New fun missions with drops that are worth the time spend in them as a reward.
e) STF based missions with something valuable that is only available from completing it.
f) New Fleet and Embassy bases for that faction (just don't make them into a grind)
And if you look at your "metrics" you will see this approach would work and give you a path that is unending for years to come. It opens the whole universe to your imagination!
So what factions am I talking about?
well let's start with the obvious one...
Romulan and continuing with these (not all at once but spread out over the launches);
Borg
Undine
Dominion
Cardassian
Hirogen
Orion
Ferengi (these are perfect to make into the pirates/traders of the universe)
Tholian
Reman
Well you get the picture... You never run out of something new to add for your next seson!...
Zeus
I don't think that Borg should ever be playable.
They are supposed to be an enemy. They should be hostile to every organic species. Their origins and reasons for their schemes is an unknown at this time.
Making them playable reduces them to a skin and abilities (not to mention diminishing the valuable of the playable liberated Borg).
If they introduce new factions, I would rather they do it slowly and thoroughly. If they introduce Romulans, don't just put them in the C-Store as something that can be bought to play as for either Federation or Klingons.
Make them a faction. Their own ships, their own missions, their own unique stories.
Sure, they can sell 'reformed Romulans' as a skin for whatever faction for $5*, but if they can charge $25-30* to let people actually play as a part of the Empire, then I think that that would be so much better.
And some of those people might still pay that extra $5 to play as a Romulan or Reman defector in another faction (unless it was included as an option for people that bought the faction option).
But I still think that it's not only okay, but actually better, that some factions be enemy/NPC only.
The Borg, Organians, Tholians, Undine and even more... I think that making them playable would diminish them (and I know that you didn't mention Organians. I am just trying to speak more generally here. I think that the Q would make a terrible faction, too ).
*all prices just pulled out of thin air and may or may not bear any resemblance to what the actual pricing may be
They are supposed to be an enemy. They should be hostile to every organic species. Their origins and reasons for their schemes is an unknown at this time.
Making them playable reduces them to a skin and abilities (not to mention diminishing the valuable of the playable liberated Borg).
If they introduce new factions, I would rather they do it slowly and thoroughly. If they introduce Romulans, don't just put them in the C-Store as something that can be bought to play as for either Federation or Klingons.
Make them a faction. Their own ships, their own missions, their own unique stories.
Sure, they can sell 'reformed Romulans' as a skin for whatever faction for $5*, but if they can charge $25-30* to let people actually play as a part of the Empire, then I think that that would be so much better.
And some of those people might still pay that extra $5 to play as a Romulan or Reman defector in another faction (unless it was included as an option for people that bought the faction option).
But I still think that it's not only okay, but actually better, that some factions be enemy/NPC only.
The Borg, Organians, Tholians, Undine and even more... I think that making them playable would diminish them (and I know that you didn't mention Organians. I am just trying to speak more generally here. I think that the Q would make a terrible faction, too ).
I agree with this, I would not like to see playable Borg either for the same reasons you mentioned - it would dilute their 'race' and mystique, I'd also add Iconians to that list, whenever they actually 'show up' in this game for real.
Cryptic has said before they won't charge for 'expansions' and I would consider the addition of a new race with it's own content/storyline as such, so I hope that remains to be true but certainly won't hold my breath. That's an awful lot of content to produce with real depth, I have not seen that kind of innovation in this game in a long time.
So you think that Cryptic/PWE is taking money out of it's own pocket to plant keys in the exchange?
You ask me to somehow prove that it wasn't the far more likely scenario of someone either purchasing a bundle of keys, getting what they wanted out of a lockbox and then re-selling the leftover keys, or someone that just bought a bunch of keys and decided to sell one to raise some quick capital, but think that your little conspiracy theory somehow makes perfect sense.
Why on Earth would Cryptic be selling keys directly on the Exchange?
Of course I can not 'prove it', but you certainly can't prove your claim, either, and if a Cryptic person came along and told you that they were not directly selling keys, you would probably just claim that that was proof of a cover up.
The reason that several keys are priced in the same bracket is the same reason that any number of things are priced in the same bracket.... People see other people charging what they do and put their items up at a similar price.
If enough people come along and buy the keys, then that is apparently the 'right' price to sell them at.
This isn't really on topic, but the whole thread seems to be off the tracks to some extent.
yes I believe theyu are. THey put fleet modules in there why not lock box keys
yes I believe theyu are. THey put fleet modules in there why not lock box keys
Negative. Cryptic do NOT put Fleet mods into the exchange. EC, Fleet Credits, etc. are all electronic "money" with absolutely zero real value, and you don't use Zen - which is the only currency that translates directly to money (and before anyone starts harping in on that notion, Dil is purchased by Zen; Zen is purchased by pounds, dollars, etc., so yes, Zen is the ONLY currency directly related to RL monies) - on the Exchange.
PLAYERS put keys, mods, etc. on the Exchange, and at obviously ridiculous in-game prices (last I looked a mod is like 20,000,000 EC).
The reason why the items are priced similarly has been eloquently stated in one of the above posts: because other players see the prices and set accordingly, OR try to get more so set higher, OR try to earn a quick sale by setting prices a bit lower.
So, no not a fan of Cryptic/PWE's business strategies or, especially, their "customer service," but let's stay within the realm of reality and not propose silly conspiracy theories, shall we?
Moreover, let's keep this thread on topic to the best of our ability - if you want to discuss this, perhaps move it to another thread, eh?
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
I've played STO since it came out, subbing off and on; have never posted in the forums, and have been fairly content to sit back and let the developers work there magic, as they have done a good job in my eyes.
the Kumari is far from the only C-store (or Lobi) ship to go live with serious issues.
Vesta hangar cooldown?
Armitage unable to slot entire weapons categories?
Recluse launching stupidly bugged amounts of fighters?
And that's just off the top of my head...
To Cryptic , the "omg wow!" factor that they get from releasing a PR statement about a new ship coming "tomorrow" is worth more then putting a new Lockbox / Lobi ship on Tribble for a week for a shakedown .
The surprise/buzz is worth more to them then the actual functionality of the product .
I find this both unethical and disturbing .
And to this I will tell you what I said somewhere else : I am VERY glad that these ppl don't deal with life or death situations .
Been there , done that , not fun .
Your version of the story is "well there are bugs in every program" while you pat Cryptic on the head .
My version is : do you expect to get to Mars (or anywhere else for that matter) with that kind of attitude ?
You applaud programming mediocrity , you applaud bad QA procedure , and apparently you even believe the line about "we've learned from this experience" .
And no , I don't have to go work for cryptic to fix their S%!t . Not my job , not my field .
But I too have been here for a long time and the things that get priority fixes in this game have me more and more worried .
In fact I am concerned that as the game grows , Cryptic is loosing the ability to "make it go" correctly .
More and more bugs ,less and less going back to fix things .
Season 7 is a prime example of that .
And instead of doing right by the game (and their costumers) , Cryptic rushes on ahead to deliver a code update (Season 8) that is supposed to be either 3-4 times the size of a normal Season , or the rest of Season 7 .
Either way -- I am REALLY CONCERNED about the amount of bugs a Season such as that will introduce with their current lack of QA/QC .
You tell me Mr. software professional : do you think the game will handle such an amount of incoming bugs ?
EDIT : you know , on second thought maybe you should not bother to answer that question , as it seems that our ideas about "quality" and "proper work" seem to be way too far apart -- thus making your answer irrelevant to me .
Just thought I'd chime in once more regarding this issue:
Now that I've been forced to obtain fleet marks via the same dull fleet actions I've encountered AFKers who have completely destroyed the action. This morning the same AFK'er appeared in two consecutive missions! :mad: Reported the AFK'er - which is what we should all be doing and hopefully (though quite doubtful) that person will be temporarily banned from FA.
I would have tried for a third mission but I was already sick of the game after that.
Thanks for the Valentine's Patch!
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
It does not matter if PWE/Cryptic believes we are a "majority" of customers that are speaking out in the forums to say that the lack of QA is wrong or that the QA process is broken...
What matters is that... IT IS THE TRUTH as posted by Dan himself!
He continues to APPROVE the bad code that does not go through any realistic form of QA!
PWE/Crytpic (Someone higher than Dan Please) Where are you!
PWE/Cryptic Why DON'T you listen to your Customers!
Just thought I'd chime in once more regarding this issue:
Now that I've been forced to obtain fleet marks via the same dull fleet actions I've encountered AFKers who have completely destroyed the action. This morning the same AFK'er appeared in two consecutive missions! :mad: Reported the AFK'er - which is what we should all be doing and hopefully (though quite doubtful) that person will be temporarily banned from FA.
I would have tried for a third mission but I was already sick of the game after that.
Thanks for the Valentine's Patch!
why work if someone will do it for u right? ........
makes me wish there was a friendly fire option in the teamed missions
maybe we need some space piracy, hunt them down and loot their latinum vaults
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?" -General Chang
why work if someone will do it for u right? ........
makes me wish there was a friendly fire option in the teamed missions
maybe we need some space piracy, hunt them down and loot their latinum vaults
Don't think it would be even that hard, just scale rewards to damage dealt,damage healed through console/doff abilities,and damage taken during combat. If you don't take any or deal or heal any ,you get zero rewards.
Don't think it would be even that hard, just scale rewards to damage dealt,damage healed through console/doff abilities,and damage taken during combat. If you don't take any or deal or heal any ,you get zero rewards.
Yes, that's a novel idea. I think in order for this to work effectively the grouping system would need to allow for open Team management in that the current queue would need to be changed to allow players to form their own groups for instances. So you could open up Team panel and start a group with the text 'Non-AFK Fleet Action in X-instance, LF Heals/DPS' and that's what would display to any other players looking in Team panel for a group, so they can see what you have in group already and what you are looking for. They then apply and you get a whisper with their level/class/name and the option to accept or deny. Group leader can also 'kick', so if you get a straggler or someone who doesn't understand what NON-AFK means you can boot them. We could make this 'Fleet Instance' scenario accessible 3 times daily, idk just as examples 10am, 6pm, 10pm or something. If you get booted you cannot re-enter until next time comes around, so best not muck about with peoples groups.
Also, I think we need a Fleet instance that could be both PvE and PvP at the same time, so say you could have 2 groups of 4 or 5 people and it could be Fed v. KDF teams or Fed v. Fed teams, etc. Both sides have the same objectives and obstacles to cross to get to the end Boss and first Team to defeat it wins the match, or if 'time' expires the Team with the most 'points' will win based on captures/kills both PvP and PvE. 20-30 minutes on the instance timer maybe.
Teams could choose to PvP and try to stall the other Team or just try to shoot through to the Boss fast and win quickly. There would initially be separation between the opposing Teams, but there would be areas allowing passage through to strike the other Team for PvP points(greater value) if successful. This could reward Fleet Marks, DIL, and Omega or Rom marks say depending on the NPC enemies that were in the instance with you(random) and be rewarded based on a sliding scale of 'points' you earned while in the instance on your Team. Whether win or lose, both Teams get something for their 'points' contribution and the winning Team gets a bonus reward % based on their total points and the time left on the clock once victory is achieved(or a certain number pf points are achieved for example if you clear the entire instance of NPC's the match ends).
This is loosely based on another game I play, not perfect but I tried to tweak it a bit to fit into STO....I'm sure it could use more fine tuning but I think this would be great fun for a lot of players.
I was just thinking of something a little more simplified. If you scale the rewards, then players will police themselves. If you take away any reward for afking,there's no incentive to do it. Seemed like that may be easier to add to code as well, something that could be done quickly. adding the ability to boot players can be abused, I don't think I would want to see that implemented.
I was just thinking of something a little more simplified. If you scale the rewards, then players will police themselves. If you take away any reward for afking,there's no incentive to do it. Seemed like that may be easier to add to code as well, something that could be done quickly. adding the ability to boot players can be abused, I don't think I would want to see that implemented.
Yeah, it's something people bring up a lot about the 'kick' option being abused but from my (sadly extensive) experience with those types of games I can say IMO it works MUCH better than what we have now, and on a whole is not abused nearly as much as you would think.
Don't think it would be even that hard, just scale rewards to damage dealt,damage healed through console/doff abilities,and damage taken during combat. If you don't take any or deal or heal any ,you get zero rewards.
The problem with this idea is that it quickly runs into all the game balance issues we know and hate. By counting healing you help cruisers have a decent chance against the escorts, but sci ships still get shafted unless you count every subsystem disable, every Repel effect, every power and shield drain, and then how do you assign a numerical value to them? And if you want it to be based on actual useful performance, not just the numbers generated, then the game has to understand the tactics of the mission well enough to reward players for pushing probes away from the vortex, even if the team ultimately doesn't kill them, but penalize players for pushing probes into the vortex. It just very rapidly turns into a huge mess to do it marginally fairly. Vote to kick with time limitations at the beginning and end would work much better (say you can't kick people in the first minute or after a major 2/3rds done moment, like 2nd transformer down in ISE, 2nd gate down in KASE, or 2nd cube down in CSE). By setting it up that way a team can't kick someone for no reason at the very beginning, and they can't kick them after they've already worked their way through almost all of it (at least without setting the remainder of the team up for a major disadvantage for further hard battles).
I've been complaining about how those missions are broke and bugged for months. The bugs show a level of contempt for new players that is appalling. "Suffer through this, and give us your money."
They won't give a hoot about "new customers" until they realize they've run off all the paying customers and no one is logging on.
yea i tryed to get a mate to play sto and he got fed up with it walk away from the game after one day. said it wasnt worth the harddrive space
Comments
I've played STO since it came out, subbing off and on; have never posted in the forums, and have been fairly content to sit back and let the developers work there magic, as they have done a good job in my eyes.
I see this group of people that just goes after the developers though, and whoever is at the helm. Thing is, I highly doubt almost any of you that verbally chastise and burn the devs have ever delivered a piece of software, or any information technology related product for that matter.
I am a Program Manager for a major corporation in the US and manage five different application development efforts; and the complexity behind developing serious software is incredible.
Someone will ask for a simple fix to an item for instance, or perhaps a change in behavior, and then wonder why something so simple takes months to complete.
Here's why:
If I have an application that displays content based on information in a database (keeping in mind I don't know the tech specs on STO, but there have to be multiple DBs plugged into it); there's four specific phases I have to go through.
1. Engineer the Solution - How do we accomplish the task? Before any code is written, you have to document what your going to do, how your going to do it, and clear that with the other stakeholders (database admins/devs, systems engineers etc)
2. Create the solution - depending on how STO's dev tempo functions (I remember reading something about them using Agile), if they use Agile they'll create a series of user stories that describe the desired function for the developers and a developer will pick up the assignment. Spikes may be assosicated with it for research or guidance from other groups - say the solution requires adding tables to an existing database; that's external work. Eventually, the code gets written.
3. Test the solution - This is accomplished both by human and computer based tests; there are automated software testing tools (junit comes to mind) that are used to test code, but then humans must do regression and functional testing. bugs are found. They must be fixed. Then you test again. So on and so forth.
Eventually you get to deploy the solution which is step 4.
And then if it doesn't work just quite right, someone who's looking to hurl abuse tells you and your entire team your an idiot and lying to them.
Take a step back. Go read up on how software is developed. And if you think you can do it better, apply to work at Cryptic or go create your own game. Be a part of the solution, not the problem.
If these guys are anything like the crew of developers that work for me, they put in many hours of unpaid OT, stay up till midnight working issues, and do it willingly because they love what they're doing.
Being beat up constantly by the consumers of the thing that they create is the fastest way to cause them to lose morale and quit.
Think about that.
v/r
Joseph
And yes I have produced code and tech solutions for my company which is International in scope so I do the things I post about every single day and I too work very long hours each day.
As far as PWE/Cryptic's QA/Testing process goes, they don't listen to the testers feedback that they get from the Tribble Test server. If fact getting any kind of response to their Bug reporting system is almost impossible.
So there are a lot of us that are Technical professionals here and that is why we do know how to correct the problems we find in the code they are producing.
Remember they (PWE/Cryptic) does put the code on their test server and they do ask for the feedback, but they are also the ones that ignore that feedback on bugs found and release it anyway to production.
Now step back and think where the real issue is...
Customers that are asked to help or a Company that ignores the help it asked for?
I for one will give them constructive feedback and report bugs, but if the process is broken, or ignored, then getting defective code is the only result left.
Zeus (Network/Computer Engineer with over 34 years of experience)
My field of work, if we released a buggy or defective product lives would be on the line. Entire communities could face power-outages. Delicate equipment could be destroyed.
If a unit fails for any reason you better believe we have that unit back in the shop and torn apart, and we figure out why it failed. We don't sit there and tell the customer "Yeah this is our best year ever we got GREAT buzz in all the trade rags -- now buy more product from us everything is working as intended."
I too can buy buzz. And I suspect Cryptic did just that. Because frankly with the absolutely abysmal "entry level" graphic issues and AI bugs no one in their right mind wants to slog through to the endgame.
Then once you get to the endgame... it's grind grind grind no story progression no advancement past level cap... just grind over and over and over.
I am calling for the delay of the next season. Push it back a year. Put everyone on bugfix duty. Spend money on setting up a quality system and train employees to use it. Use this time to generate simple story missions to test your quality-assurance skills. When you can successful turn around a ticket in 24 hours or less... and when you can point to an error-free entry-level experience... then AND ONLY THEN are you ready to move on to the next season.
Season Seven has exposed serious flaws in Cryptic's internal process. They clearly are not ready to expand into the "next phase" of STO's evolution. Not with the utter lack of quality assurance I am seeing!
This is quite hilarious, coming from someone who has also worked in the industry and knowing several project managers at large companies like Logica, I can tell you for a fact that if you do work in the industry you've led a very sheltered life.
Projects often get done very badly full of bugs and not meeting spec at all due to sales management being too aggressive with promises on deadlines to clients. The NHS backbone is a good example or the perpetually in development and never finished EU version of GPS (Autobahn) which was run so badly that it actually went through several version of Fortran LOL!
Please, step back a moment for yourself and tell me do you seriously believe that developers never get things wrong and continue regardless because of the short term profit pressures?
Simply put defending the behaviour and processes of Cryptic concerning this game is a battle you won't win not because were are determined to accuse them of things but because they are doing these things. We aren't just making this up you know.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I am saying that hurling abuse at developers isn't the right way to address it.
Someone made a point of saying that software is on deadlines and that introduces unfixed bugs - that's aboslutely correct; sometimes you accept that there are specific bugs and move forward because the whole is better than the bug.
Cryptic is a group of developers within a larger company (PW); clearly they have internal deadlines, and since its commerical, if there's no profit, there's no money to pay people and the project folds.
I do have to say I find it hard to believe that the developers are just blowing off serious bug reports from Tribble.
I can see blowing off poorly submitted bug reports, but not serious, well documented bugs.
Perhaps I have more faith in STO's devs that everyone else, but considering the state of the game in open beta to now, its come a long way and I've been impressed with what they've accomplished given the resources they have.
Again though - to the folks hurling abuse, why not put in an application with PWE? Go help fix the problem.
You have no idea what anyone does for work/jobs on these forums at all, so please keep your conjecture to yourself.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
That is exactly what PWE/Cryptic is doing with the bug reports! The testers on Tribble have been giving this kind of bug reporting for years and PWE/Cryptic continues to ignore them by releasing the code into production time and time again.
This is just one of the many problems but it is a major one that the lack of any kind of proper QA there is causing!
As far as applying for a job there, well I like living in Texas and I like the company I work for and the retirement plan I have coming. I don't think PWE/Cryptic could match my salary or provide the above.
I am here because I love Star Trek, not because I like PWE/Cryptic!
And we are trying to help them using the vehicle they are providing (Tribble/Forums).
It is PWE/Cryptic that chooses to ignore the help they asked for!
Zeus (Network/Computer Engineer with over 34 years of experience)
Disbelieve all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Tribble is a joke at the moment. Either patches get so little testing (see the last few days) that there is no time to spot bugs, or bugs that are identified make it through to Holodeck anyway (Bioneural / TDD being borked, rebellious Boffs, 2 minute universal CD and other major problems were all caught on Tribble but went to the live server despite countless reports).
Someone might actually read it this time...
Thanks.
Thanks, this time for the honesty, most of us knew this and lets be even more honest this was the exact same issue with Season and the Reputation system it was rushed and Tribble was ignored. The result was an unbalanced system which in many ways is still too expensive but back at launch was so ridiculously unbalanced that it didn't take long for the player base to force you into changes.
This isn't a one off mistake, it's a pattern you guys have of delivering patches to Holodeck that haven't been properly tested or evaluated and the result is unbalanced systems and bug after bug.
I think you need to admit that the "exploitation" that occurred was more a natural attempt by the players to fix the lack of balance in the Fleet Mark system... I categorically state that people were not doing it for the "lulz" or to gain super gamebreaking advantages over other players, they were doing it to feed the starved supply of fleet marks.
The entire problem was created by Cryptic. In addition you are right if you felt you needed to resolve the issue of a broken Fleet Marks system the solution should have been added before you removed the community created solution to the problem. That is what it was Dan it was our solution for your broken system.
I sympathize with you when you say you don't feel good when you make mistakes. None of us who have stressful jobs do when we get things wrong. However Dan the issue here is you and the team are making the same mistakes over and over and honestly it's time you learned from your mistakes and ensure they don't happen again.
Honestly this is a bit of a straw man, I think very few have made overly harsh comments or anything that was worthy of a forum ban. The rest of us have only highlighted the truth, I guess one could say my words have been harsh or at any rate my criticism, but the thing is my business relies on reputation Dan, if I get things wrong consistently as you guys have I would be out of business very very quickly and people would view my work as amateurish or unprofessional, so when you guys do that, that is what I think about your work.
You might say it's harsh, I'd say it's honest and I think if you did some soul-searching and thought about this a little more your admission that the team failed to communicate both externally and internally amongst other departments is really unprofessional. Whilst I understand the team might be working really hard, if you really took the due care an attention you are meant to be taking these errors would not occur. This also serves to hint at a pattern of rushed production and half finished work and ideas.
Dan we are not frustrated with you as a human being but the practices and poor organization that underlay the the problems that occur on Holodeck which have become a pattern of the same issues showing up; bugs, system imbalance and ignoring Tribble Testers.
We understand your team is devoting time in their lives to producing this game. However you need to understand not only do we pour many hours in our lives into playing the game we also work just as hard as you do in our own jobs and that income is what goes into your game as well. Not only do we put time into your game we also put in money into it Dan.
No doubt you can see just how much money I have put into this game and how little I have recently.
Look Dan, we can't authenticate the information and simply taking your word on it isn't good enough in the UK we've had problems with contaminated meat because people simply took others at their word. However what I can authenticate is the genuine concerns and issues many of us have with this game and that is epitomized by this thread and the number of views and posts it has received. However perhaps in the future we as a community can do our own market research about customer satisfaction with this game that is publishable and open.
Dan, whether the game is here for any period of time comes down to the players and what you do to make their experience of the game worth coming back for at the moment for a number of us that is not the case. It not so much that you tarnished yourselves with the last issue but that the issue is just part of a continued pattern of systemic failures in communication, testing and design.
Ultimately Dan our perspective is very simple, we want to have fun, I speak for a demographic that works hard and has family commitments. We come back from work and want to relax your game has to offer something to us that makes us want to log on. At the moment we don't get that. Tell me after a hard days work Dan would you come home and play a game that you felt was more like work than play?
This is the problem Dan, part of your job is communicating with us, it is of little surprise that the community has criticized you for you poor communication when it seems you don't even deem it to be part of your job.
Maybe this was just a throw-away remark at the end of your post that you didn't think about but the Freudian implications concerned me a little.
No Dan, as this thread has evidenced it's not a simple matter of perspective especially when you consider your own admission to a pattern of work that adds bugs and imbalance into the game.
Your unprofessional-ism, rushed patches and resultant constant bugs and problems with systems which you yourself have admitted to would point to the fact that your are starting to lose core customers like myself. Once again though we have no proof in growth and I certainly cannot see an improvement from Season 6 to Season 7.
I can see how your decisions may have improved revenue by playing on peoples natural propensity to gamble. But consider this I started playing August, and by February I am not really playing at all, this is not unique to me but a common thread amongst quite a number of players. Our qualitative evidence has an authentic proven source at the moment we have not such authenticity for your quantitative statistical claims. However as I have already said I think it's time the community did some quantitative research of it's own.
No Dan, the MMORPG genre is not like that especially for adult audiences, maybe if your key demographic was kids with endless time then you could make that claim and argue that the this is the way the game should be. However your core demographic is middle ages Star Trek fans and may I add I doubt that unless there is a new Star Trek TV series which is genuinely popular you won't be getting in large volume of kids playing.
Our lives and habits do not lead us to enjoy grinding, you know this is true and it's why time and time again the Player Base has forced you to change your broken systems to remove grind. That is what happened in the weeks post Season 7.
You needed to do some proper QA and Tribble Testing over more than just 2 weeks if you ever hope to release an anywhere close to satisfactory update to Holodeck.
If it is something you care about and take pride in why do consistently release broken patches and updates? We also work hard Dan, we also do overtime and late nights, we deserve better from a product we are looking to seek enjoyment from, not grind or a 2nd job.
In closing Dan I see that two things need to happen to take this game forwards, firstly you guys need to organize yourselves better and start listening to the Tribble testers with more seriousness, also you need to listen to the wider player base and our concerns over how enjoyable the game is, for every 1 of us that is unhappy there are another 5 that feel the same but say nothing.
The second thing that needs to happen is up to use the players and I direct my comments now to my fellow players. We need to organise and agree upon the parts of the game we feel need improvement or re-thinking and focus our efforts in a constructive way into a fruitful dialogue with the Cryptic team. My signature is a good place to start PM me so I can get us organised.
Also, post 2311 in this thread sums up a lot of our concerns about the game is is worth a read.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I considered it, and the sincere apology that followed, a very good start to a more fruitful relationship between the developers and the playerbase.
There has been a lot of to and fro regarding the problems faced by small fleets.
I have a suggestion that I don't think has been posted yet......but if I missed it my apologies.
There is a set of special projects designed explicitally for large fleets. These have fairly large requirements for relatively small rewards.
The thought strikes me that this set of projects could be made dynamic and linked to average fleet size.
There is obviously some new code that has been applied to foundry missions, that calculates the average time taken to complete the mission and rewards dilithium accordingly.
What if a version of that code was applied to those special projects......
Fleet X, over the last two weeks, finishes projects at the rate of one every week. Relatively slowly. Thus the requirements for those special projects drops.
Fleet Y, over the same period, finishes projects every 3 days. Relatively quickly. The requirements for their special projects increases.
This gets past the problem of lowering requitrements for small fleets, a situation obviously exploitable, by shifting the emphasis away from actual fleet size and onto the speed in which a given fleet finishes projects.
By making it dynamic (like the foundry-dil calculation) it can adjust itself in the case that a fleet either gets more active members, or indeed loses active members.
The rewards from such projects are not massive, so it is just a thumb on the scales......but it would allow for some sense of movement for small fleets, while not opening the gates to exploits.
The key would be making the time frame long enough.....say two weeks, or even four.
A big fleet would not want to go through all the rigmarole of kicking members and deliberately slowing down its projects just to get a relatively small reward........but small fleets would get a bit of a boost.
So you think that Cryptic/PWE is taking money out of it's own pocket to plant keys in the exchange?
You ask me to somehow prove that it wasn't the far more likely scenario of someone either purchasing a bundle of keys, getting what they wanted out of a lockbox and then re-selling the leftover keys, or someone that just bought a bunch of keys and decided to sell one to raise some quick capital, but think that your little conspiracy theory somehow makes perfect sense.
Why on Earth would Cryptic be selling keys directly on the Exchange?
Of course I can not 'prove it', but you certainly can't prove your claim, either, and if a Cryptic person came along and told you that they were not directly selling keys, you would probably just claim that that was proof of a cover up.
The reason that several keys are priced in the same bracket is the same reason that any number of things are priced in the same bracket.... People see other people charging what they do and put their items up at a similar price.
If enough people come along and buy the keys, then that is apparently the 'right' price to sell them at.
This isn't really on topic, but the whole thread seems to be off the tracks to some extent.
A given fleet will inevitably slow down as it increases tier, as the requirements get tougher.
However, there is a fix......essentially divide by tier.
Fleet X gets tier 1 projects done in 5 days, tier 2 in 10, tier 3 in 15 and tier 4 in 20.
If we just tied things to time taken, their special projects would be getting easier as they go.
However, if we divide by tier level, things get more sensible.
For the above fleet 5 divided by 1 is 5, 10 divided by 2 is still 5.....and so on.
Imagine an interview where "South Park" is replaced by Star Trek Online...
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
I don't think that Borg should ever be playable.
They are supposed to be an enemy. They should be hostile to every organic species. Their origins and reasons for their schemes is an unknown at this time.
Making them playable reduces them to a skin and abilities (not to mention diminishing the valuable of the playable liberated Borg).
If they introduce new factions, I would rather they do it slowly and thoroughly. If they introduce Romulans, don't just put them in the C-Store as something that can be bought to play as for either Federation or Klingons.
Make them a faction. Their own ships, their own missions, their own unique stories.
Sure, they can sell 'reformed Romulans' as a skin for whatever faction for $5*, but if they can charge $25-30* to let people actually play as a part of the Empire, then I think that that would be so much better.
And some of those people might still pay that extra $5 to play as a Romulan or Reman defector in another faction (unless it was included as an option for people that bought the faction option).
But I still think that it's not only okay, but actually better, that some factions be enemy/NPC only.
The Borg, Organians, Tholians, Undine and even more... I think that making them playable would diminish them (and I know that you didn't mention Organians. I am just trying to speak more generally here. I think that the Q would make a terrible faction, too
*all prices just pulled out of thin air and may or may not bear any resemblance to what the actual pricing may be
I agree with this, I would not like to see playable Borg either for the same reasons you mentioned - it would dilute their 'race' and mystique, I'd also add Iconians to that list, whenever they actually 'show up' in this game for real.
Cryptic has said before they won't charge for 'expansions' and I would consider the addition of a new race with it's own content/storyline as such, so I hope that remains to be true but certainly won't hold my breath. That's an awful lot of content to produce with real depth, I have not seen that kind of innovation in this game in a long time.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
yes I believe theyu are. THey put fleet modules in there why not lock box keys
Negative. Cryptic do NOT put Fleet mods into the exchange. EC, Fleet Credits, etc. are all electronic "money" with absolutely zero real value, and you don't use Zen - which is the only currency that translates directly to money (and before anyone starts harping in on that notion, Dil is purchased by Zen; Zen is purchased by pounds, dollars, etc., so yes, Zen is the ONLY currency directly related to RL monies) - on the Exchange.
PLAYERS put keys, mods, etc. on the Exchange, and at obviously ridiculous in-game prices (last I looked a mod is like 20,000,000 EC).
The reason why the items are priced similarly has been eloquently stated in one of the above posts: because other players see the prices and set accordingly, OR try to get more so set higher, OR try to earn a quick sale by setting prices a bit lower.
So, no not a fan of Cryptic/PWE's business strategies or, especially, their "customer service," but let's stay within the realm of reality and not propose silly conspiracy theories, shall we?
Moreover, let's keep this thread on topic to the best of our ability - if you want to discuss this, perhaps move it to another thread, eh?
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Dude, it would make more sense for Cryptic to purchase the keys off the exchange in order to keep them out of circulation.
Don't give them ideas...
lol (I hope)
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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as I said, its too late, they've done something similar, and well given their track record, I wouldn't put this out of the realm of possibility
Let's talk about that "magic" , shall we ?
To Cryptic , the "omg wow!" factor that they get from releasing a PR statement about a new ship coming "tomorrow" is worth more then putting a new Lockbox / Lobi ship on Tribble for a week for a shakedown .
The surprise/buzz is worth more to them then the actual functionality of the product .
I find this both unethical and disturbing .
And to this I will tell you what I said somewhere else :
I am VERY glad that these ppl don't deal with life or death situations .
Been there , done that , not fun .
Your version of the story is "well there are bugs in every program" while you pat Cryptic on the head .
My version is : do you expect to get to Mars (or anywhere else for that matter) with that kind of attitude ?
You applaud programming mediocrity , you applaud bad QA procedure , and apparently you even believe the line about "we've learned from this experience" .
And no , I don't have to go work for cryptic to fix their S%!t . Not my job , not my field .
But I too have been here for a long time and the things that get priority fixes in this game have me more and more worried .
In fact I am concerned that as the game grows , Cryptic is loosing the ability to "make it go" correctly .
More and more bugs ,less and less going back to fix things .
Season 7 is a prime example of that .
And instead of doing right by the game (and their costumers) , Cryptic rushes on ahead to deliver a code update (Season 8) that is supposed to be either 3-4 times the size of a normal Season , or the rest of Season 7 .
Either way -- I am REALLY CONCERNED about the amount of bugs a Season such as that will introduce with their current lack of QA/QC .
You tell me Mr. software professional : do you think the game will handle such an amount of incoming bugs ?
EDIT : you know , on second thought maybe you should not bother to answer that question , as it seems that our ideas about "quality" and "proper work" seem to be way too far apart -- thus making your answer irrelevant to me .
Now that I've been forced to obtain fleet marks via the same dull fleet actions I've encountered AFKers who have completely destroyed the action. This morning the same AFK'er appeared in two consecutive missions! :mad: Reported the AFK'er - which is what we should all be doing and hopefully (though quite doubtful) that person will be temporarily banned from FA.
I would have tried for a third mission but I was already sick of the game after that.
Thanks for the Valentine's Patch!
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
It does not matter if PWE/Cryptic believes we are a "majority" of customers that are speaking out in the forums to say that the lack of QA is wrong or that the QA process is broken...
What matters is that... IT IS THE TRUTH as posted by Dan himself!
He continues to APPROVE the bad code that does not go through any realistic form of QA!
PWE/Crytpic (Someone higher than Dan Please) Where are you!
PWE/Cryptic Why DON'T you listen to your Customers!
PWE/Crytpic Stop the PUBAR!, Bring back the FUN!
PUBAR = Patched Up Beyond All Recognition
Zeus
why work if someone will do it for u right? ........
makes me wish there was a friendly fire option in the teamed missions
maybe we need some space piracy, hunt them down and loot their latinum vaults
-General Chang
Don't think it would be even that hard, just scale rewards to damage dealt,damage healed through console/doff abilities,and damage taken during combat. If you don't take any or deal or heal any ,you get zero rewards.
Yes, that's a novel idea. I think in order for this to work effectively the grouping system would need to allow for open Team management in that the current queue would need to be changed to allow players to form their own groups for instances. So you could open up Team panel and start a group with the text 'Non-AFK Fleet Action in X-instance, LF Heals/DPS' and that's what would display to any other players looking in Team panel for a group, so they can see what you have in group already and what you are looking for. They then apply and you get a whisper with their level/class/name and the option to accept or deny. Group leader can also 'kick', so if you get a straggler or someone who doesn't understand what NON-AFK means you can boot them. We could make this 'Fleet Instance' scenario accessible 3 times daily, idk just as examples 10am, 6pm, 10pm or something. If you get booted you cannot re-enter until next time comes around, so best not muck about with peoples groups.
Also, I think we need a Fleet instance that could be both PvE and PvP at the same time, so say you could have 2 groups of 4 or 5 people and it could be Fed v. KDF teams or Fed v. Fed teams, etc. Both sides have the same objectives and obstacles to cross to get to the end Boss and first Team to defeat it wins the match, or if 'time' expires the Team with the most 'points' will win based on captures/kills both PvP and PvE. 20-30 minutes on the instance timer maybe.
Teams could choose to PvP and try to stall the other Team or just try to shoot through to the Boss fast and win quickly. There would initially be separation between the opposing Teams, but there would be areas allowing passage through to strike the other Team for PvP points(greater value) if successful. This could reward Fleet Marks, DIL, and Omega or Rom marks say depending on the NPC enemies that were in the instance with you(random) and be rewarded based on a sliding scale of 'points' you earned while in the instance on your Team. Whether win or lose, both Teams get something for their 'points' contribution and the winning Team gets a bonus reward % based on their total points and the time left on the clock once victory is achieved(or a certain number pf points are achieved for example if you clear the entire instance of NPC's the match ends).
This is loosely based on another game I play, not perfect but I tried to tweak it a bit to fit into STO....I'm sure it could use more fine tuning but I think this would be great fun for a lot of players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Yeah, it's something people bring up a lot about the 'kick' option being abused but from my (sadly extensive) experience with those types of games I can say IMO it works MUCH better than what we have now, and on a whole is not abused nearly as much as you would think.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
The problem with this idea is that it quickly runs into all the game balance issues we know and hate. By counting healing you help cruisers have a decent chance against the escorts, but sci ships still get shafted unless you count every subsystem disable, every Repel effect, every power and shield drain, and then how do you assign a numerical value to them? And if you want it to be based on actual useful performance, not just the numbers generated, then the game has to understand the tactics of the mission well enough to reward players for pushing probes away from the vortex, even if the team ultimately doesn't kill them, but penalize players for pushing probes into the vortex. It just very rapidly turns into a huge mess to do it marginally fairly. Vote to kick with time limitations at the beginning and end would work much better (say you can't kick people in the first minute or after a major 2/3rds done moment, like 2nd transformer down in ISE, 2nd gate down in KASE, or 2nd cube down in CSE). By setting it up that way a team can't kick someone for no reason at the very beginning, and they can't kick them after they've already worked their way through almost all of it (at least without setting the remainder of the team up for a major disadvantage for further hard battles).
yea i tryed to get a mate to play sto and he got fed up with it walk away from the game after one day. said it wasnt worth the harddrive space