This has been Cryptics "politics" since STO went F2P and even before, if i remember correctly.
What bothers me most is how inconsequent they do things, starting with STOs ship mechanics where ships only look like Star Trek ships but work completely different, going to constant Fleet Mark changes at the Foundry daily and other dailys not even working. I don't want to start thinking about pressing Star Trek ships into a Stone/paper/scissor mechanic....
Abilities getting constantly changed which can suddenly make your ship build completely useless from one day to another, in the worst case.
Apparently they want to give us more opportunities to get Dilithium, fine. But don't they remember they installed a 8000 Dilithium cap per day a long time ago?
I wouldn't care for it if they wouldn't decrease the amount of Fleet Marks per mission at the same time. Everyone i know (including myself) constantly needs more Fleet marks, not Dilithium, at least not that much.
Sometimes i think they don't even care to play the game by themselves from time to time, i know if it where a Star Wars of BSG game they would be much more enthusiastic and careful about it...
I too have the impression everytime they release a new patch, the game fails to work on some other area, if it's some technical thing or game mechanics.
Things like that don't raise confidence about their competence when it comes to making games in general. I wonder why companies keep giving them their IPs to make games, don't they even bother to look what they do with their product?
Really, i just don't get it...
Honestly my confidence in them is at a new low point.
Sorry if this has gotten off topic a bit.
Maybe the answer is in complaining to CBS and maybe they will dish out some specifics about customer satisfaction.
I'm still crossing my fingers the PWE surveys are Craptics wake up call. This is a PWE forum ((Hence the sto-forum.perfectworld.com in your browser.)). All a mod has to do is drop an e-mail and say 'Theres a problem.'
Reality is they have a monoploy - there is nowhere else to get your Star Trek fix at present.
Yes for now but the new star trek co op game is due out in April before dstahls intended fix.... So trekkies will have another outlet for their trek fix. Let's hope they come back.
Yes for now but the new star trek co op game is due out in April before dstahls intended fix.... So trekkies will have another outlet for their trek fix. Let's hope they come back.
The line must be drawn here and now: Do they work for us, their customers? Or do we grind for them, as enslaved players?
That's a matter of opinion, one would think they work for us, since we are the ones paying them. However, I get the distinct impression that they feel otherwise...perhaps they live in a Perfect World:rolleyes:
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Yes for now but the new star trek co op game is due out in April before dstahls intended fix.... So trekkies will have another outlet for their trek fix. Let's hope they come back.
You mean the JJ version game? That's just a quickie gimmick/money maker. You'd have to be a truly desperate Star Trek junkie to get and play it...
Something tells me that Cryptic could remove all Fleet Mark rewards except for the 5 mark Officer of the Watch and the CDF sheeple would still praise their overlords.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Yes, they have enough to worry about... Let's not hijack this thread and make it about Jar-Jar Abrams; but what it is intended for. A "discussion" about the great additions in this new "patch". [/sarcasm]
Branflakes had enough time to edit a post a page back, so at least he's reading this thread.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Really?? I thought we were being ignored all together:rolleyes:
It will be like the other threads; those against may have their posts redacted. The CDF will throw out tons of accusations and nothing will happen.
Selective enforcement.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Yes, they have enough to worry about... Let's not hijack this thread and make it about Jar-Jar Abrams; but what it is intended for. A "discussion" about the great additions in this new "patch". [/sarcasm]
Branflakes had enough time to edit a post a page back, so at least he's reading this thread.
They have nothing to worry about from a 6 hour single player console game.
So CRTPTIC iS JUST GOING TO **** OVER THE SMOLL FLEET'S AFTER THE BIG ONE'S GET ALL THE WAY TO TIR 5 WTF We are A TIR 2 STARBASE Ya LET THE BIG FLEET's GET TO TIR 5 STARBASE YA YOU KNOW ALL JACK TRIBBLE CRYPTIC
They have nothing to worry about from a 6 hour single player console game.
Yes, they have enough to worry about... Let's not hijack this thread and make it about Jar-Jar Abrams; but what it is intended for. A "discussion" about the great additions in this new "patch". [/sarcasm]
Sorry. I should have used a semi-colon, and emphasized my meaning:
Yes; they already have enough to worry about...
I was actually agreeing that the new game wouldn't really be a concern. What they should be concerned about is maintaining good relations with their customers and adding content rather than taking content away and punishing their customers.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
I think the devs are all going silent per order from a higher up on this. Maybe they still hope for people to forget over the weekend. As a way to keep this moving, I will purposely be here Monday morning with my running shoes and a nice "Morning, DEVs! We're still mad!"
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Every thread needs that one person with wit; it helps mantain perspective.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I think the devs are all going silent per order from a higher up on this. Maybe they still hope for people to forget over the weekend. As a way to keep this moving, I will purposely be here Monday morning with my running shoes and a nice "Morning, DEVs! We're still mad!"
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I think the devs are all going silent per order from a higher up on this. Maybe they still hope for people to forget over the weekend. As a way to keep this moving, I will purposely be here Monday morning with my running shoes and a nice "Morning, DEVs! We're still mad!"
Two words.
Holiday weekend. We might be better off coming back on Tuesday..XD
Eh, who am I kidding. I'll be here every day, fighting the good fight...
I think the devs are all going silent per order from a higher up on this. Maybe they still hope for people to forget over the weekend. As a way to keep this moving, I will purposely be here Monday morning with my running shoes and a nice "Morning, DEVs! We're still mad!"
Thanks for the video and the surprise ending now I feel a little better too! Read you on Monday!
There are Four Lights... say no to ARCFleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
The line must be drawn here and now: Do they work for us, their customers? Or do we grind for them, as enslaved players?
None. They offer a product, in this case a game, is up to u go "buy" it and use it if u like it or find another one. Nobody forc? us to play this game and certainly they don't work for us.
I think the devs are all going silent per order from a higher up on this. Maybe they still hope for people to forget over the weekend. As a way to keep this moving, I will purposely be here Monday morning with my running shoes and a nice "Morning, DEVs! We're still mad!"
I believe you are correct.
For me, ( and likely for others ) this isn't something to be forgotten. This is not a "mistake", or a "one-off" situation.
What has happened with the Foundry missions underlines how Cryptic regards the players, from a customer service standpoint.
I won't rehash what many excellent posts have pointed out. For me this is another incident in a series of incidents and events.
The game is barely any fun any more, and I wonder why I wait for the NEXT incident to happen.
The lack of quality thought permeates the game from UI to Mission to Customer Service.
I have boycotted paying STO any cash for months now, due to what I see as an aggressive grab at my cash, with no real value in return.
Why am I still here. ?
Why am I continuing to contribute my time to a game where I KNOW I will be treated with contempt, and shoddy quality.
why are people going on about JJ game in this thread go and make a thread about it please.
i was on kdf today waiting to grind fleet marks 33 mins. to a mission started sat doing nothing were is the fun in that i Queued for 3 fleet missions at same time this is not on cryptic.
i dont need dilith im tier 5 rep in both n have over 7k in marks to cash in, on my main kdf toon.
bet if there put fleet marks back it will only be 30. i all so think it might be a plan to take them away and give us smaller amount back then there can say we lesten to the player base hope ur happy now and half the players will be :mad: like last time with stf rewards.
mc donalds does not mess with the big mac why cos its a best seller so why does cryptic mess with the stuff we the players like about the game
They sort of do. If they don't provide a decent product, we don't pay. We don't pay, they don't get paid. They don't make money, they go buy buy.
That's not even business 101, that's basic business 80.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
The line must be drawn here and now: Do they work for us, their customers? Or do we grind for them, as enslaved players?
hmm... Unsolved mysteries of "Unsolved Mysteries".
Cryptic solely works for Perfect World Entertainment. If Perfect World Entertainment is a professional company, they would be looking for ways to generate revenue. When a Cryptic developer talks about the game's grinding aspects, they refer to their paying customers (subscribers & paying F2P players) as statistical numbers. Once something goes wrong with the game, Cryptic rolls out a quick zen sale. Cryptic believes that your anger will subside by giving them more money. Normal customer service does not work in that manner. Within a real world dynamic, the customer would have gotten something for free. "Customers are always right" is the normal mantra.
When it comes to in game mechanics, the customer needs to know them prior to purchasing. Multiplayer online games present conundrums. Since customers pay for services upfront, the changes that come after purchasing can hurt consumers. If certain changes are perceived negatively, customers cannot ask for their money back. Within a real world dynamic, the customer is allowed to return merchandise. Regardless about their reasoning, the consumer is allowed to get money back.
Now, our issue is excessive grinding. Reputation system, fleet bases, and embassies combined create an overwhelming amount of grinding...
After the release of Season 7, we noticed that the amount of Fleet Marks players were earning per day started declining. As we expected, it was mostly due to the introduction of new content and the new Reputation system. Players were now spending less time in missions that granted Fleet Marks, and more time in missions that granted Dilithium and Rep Marks.
*shrugs*
If I were apart of someone's fleet, I would quit it to focus on the reputation system. As a result of removing myself from the equation, becoming a solo player, the changes to the fleet marks do not affect me. Once everyone sees the value of being a single player, the grinding issue with fleetbases and embassies will go away.
Why bother playing something that keeps getting pushed further out of reach?
Here is the thing, you can't just KEEP changing how we earn rewards and expect a continued response to the game. A LOT of people were angry when you changed the borg set's earning to a reputation system gating the mk XI and Mk XII behind literally HOURS of gameplay. No one is happy with seeing fleet marks and dilithium made even harder to earn.
You want to rebalance the game, fine, do it announced and be up front with the data from the start, because this is a breech of trust between the devs and the players. We ask certain things from you, (and yes I am a paying customer, 15$ a month for a VERY long time), one of them being some form of consistency.
This is the only game I have EVER player where the primary currency (EC in this case) cannot be earned in combat or by completing missions. What you can do is earn different gear and sell that gear, I understand that, however I would like to point out, that that makes certain stories more popular to run, makes some things unpopular and makes life generally harder then it needs to be. EVERYONE should be able too, through continual casual play, unlock everything in a TIMELY manner.
For the record, Timely is not 6 months, it is not a year. Look to the other MMO I played, City of Heroes, which has shut down but not due to being unprofitable. Yes we had farming, but it was a specialty thing, the farmers supplied the auction house, and the auction house supplied the players with the gear they needed to survive the game.
EVERYONE was earning Influence (that games currency) and using it regularly, to enhance they're characters. I have played this game for a very long time and outside getting a lock box ship sold on the market have NEVER had more then 10 million EC at a time.
You talk about wanting to retain us, retain us by making us invested in our story, making us want to come play more Star Trek, invested because we want to know where the stroy is going, not cause "I am halfway through getting that next nifty piece of gear."
that is very much poor thinking. We need some goals we can meet within a month, goals we can meet in a day, and things to make us feel accomplished everytime we play that we are not paying out of pocket for.
Dilithium should be earned via Foundry Missions, so should Fleet Marks, if you have to mark some missions as no go for that we understand, (but don't like it). EC should be earned as a mission reward EVERY MISSION, or even as a "kill reward" for badguys.
Give us some way of earning as a normal MMO would. What you have now is a currency starved, glut of selling equipment on your Exchange, and people constantly underbidding because they need to sell what they have. This is not a healthy market. A healthy market would have standing prices that you could expect an item to sell for, and enough EC in the game that people aren't underbidding each other all the time.
For that matter this is an MMORPG, Massively MULTIPLAYER Online RPG, you should be encouraging, but not making mandatory, team play by giving faster earning to those who play on teams. What you are doing with the fleet system is making it so that players play on PUGs and never form lasting relationships or community within the game.
Please look into my suggestions a bit at least, and have a wonderful day...
V/R
Elvnsword
TL:DR
We have too little currency influx, and too much GM arbitration of currency levels.
Sorry to bother, guys, but could it be that the foundry has been taken offline today for maintenance due to the rewards changes to be implemented or related issues?
I was working on a project up to a couple of hours ago, but unable to save it... then I lost connection, and now I am unable to log back on.
The game works just fine - but I am not even able to click on the "Create Content" tab on the main screen any more.
Comments
Do they work for us, their customers?
Or do we grind for them, as enslaved players?
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Maybe the answer is in complaining to CBS and maybe they will dish out some specifics about customer satisfaction.
We can only hope.
At this point, its all we have...
Yes for now but the new star trek co op game is due out in April before dstahls intended fix.... So trekkies will have another outlet for their trek fix. Let's hope they come back.
STO has nothing to worry about from that game.
That's a matter of opinion, one would think they work for us, since we are the ones paying them. However, I get the distinct impression that they feel otherwise...perhaps they live in a Perfect World:rolleyes:
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You mean the JJ version game? That's just a quickie gimmick/money maker. You'd have to be a truly desperate Star Trek junkie to get and play it...
*sighs*I already have mine pre-ordered for PC.
Ugh! Desperation is a horrible thing...
Nah, your just living some of the ideals of the Federation, exposure to new ideas and cultures:D
"Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant."
Something tells me that Cryptic could remove all Fleet Mark rewards except for the 5 mark Officer of the Watch and the CDF sheeple would still praise their overlords.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Yes, they have enough to worry about... Let's not hijack this thread and make it about Jar-Jar Abrams; but what it is intended for. A "discussion" about the great additions in this new "patch". [/sarcasm]
Branflakes had enough time to edit a post a page back, so at least he's reading this thread.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Really?? I thought we were being ignored all together:rolleyes:
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That's a bit harsh. Than again, I actually liked ST09, but to each his own...
It will be like the other threads; those against may have their posts redacted. The CDF will throw out tons of accusations and nothing will happen.
Selective enforcement.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
They have nothing to worry about from a 6 hour single player console game.
Sorry. I should have used a semi-colon, and emphasized my meaning:
Yes; they already have enough to worry about...
I was actually agreeing that the new game wouldn't really be a concern. What they should be concerned about is maintaining good relations with their customers and adding content rather than taking content away and punishing their customers.
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
I think the devs are all going silent per order from a higher up on this. Maybe they still hope for people to forget over the weekend. As a way to keep this moving, I will purposely be here Monday morning with my running shoes and a nice "Morning, DEVs! We're still mad!"
Every thread needs that one person with wit; it helps mantain perspective.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Monday is a Holiday?
President's Day.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Two words.
Holiday weekend. We might be better off coming back on Tuesday..XD
Eh, who am I kidding. I'll be here every day, fighting the good fight...
Thanks for the video and the surprise ending
Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
None. They offer a product, in this case a game, is up to u go "buy" it and use it if u like it or find another one. Nobody forc? us to play this game and certainly they don't work for us.
I believe you are correct.
For me, ( and likely for others ) this isn't something to be forgotten. This is not a "mistake", or a "one-off" situation.
What has happened with the Foundry missions underlines how Cryptic regards the players, from a customer service standpoint.
I won't rehash what many excellent posts have pointed out. For me this is another incident in a series of incidents and events.
The game is barely any fun any more, and I wonder why I wait for the NEXT incident to happen.
The lack of quality thought permeates the game from UI to Mission to Customer Service.
I have boycotted paying STO any cash for months now, due to what I see as an aggressive grab at my cash, with no real value in return.
Why am I still here. ?
Why am I continuing to contribute my time to a game where I KNOW I will be treated with contempt, and shoddy quality.
I have to think on this.
i was on kdf today waiting to grind
i dont need dilith im tier 5 rep in both n have over 7k in marks to cash in, on my main kdf toon.
bet if there put fleet marks back it will only be 30. i all so think it might be a plan to take them away and give us smaller amount back then there can say we lesten to the player base hope ur happy now and half the players will be :mad: like last time with stf rewards.
mc donalds does not mess with the big mac why cos its a best seller so why does cryptic mess with the stuff we the players like about the game
They sort of do. If they don't provide a decent product, we don't pay. We don't pay, they don't get paid. They don't make money, they go buy buy.
That's not even business 101, that's basic business 80.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
And..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgD-UK_zn3k
Cryptic solely works for Perfect World Entertainment. If Perfect World Entertainment is a professional company, they would be looking for ways to generate revenue. When a Cryptic developer talks about the game's grinding aspects, they refer to their paying customers (subscribers & paying F2P players) as statistical numbers. Once something goes wrong with the game, Cryptic rolls out a quick zen sale. Cryptic believes that your anger will subside by giving them more money. Normal customer service does not work in that manner. Within a real world dynamic, the customer would have gotten something for free. "Customers are always right" is the normal mantra.
When it comes to in game mechanics, the customer needs to know them prior to purchasing. Multiplayer online games present conundrums. Since customers pay for services upfront, the changes that come after purchasing can hurt consumers. If certain changes are perceived negatively, customers cannot ask for their money back. Within a real world dynamic, the customer is allowed to return merchandise. Regardless about their reasoning, the consumer is allowed to get money back.
Now, our issue is excessive grinding. Reputation system, fleet bases, and embassies combined create an overwhelming amount of grinding...
*shrugs*
If I were apart of someone's fleet, I would quit it to focus on the reputation system. As a result of removing myself from the equation, becoming a solo player, the changes to the fleet marks do not affect me. Once everyone sees the value of being a single player, the grinding issue with fleetbases and embassies will go away.
Why bother playing something that keeps getting pushed further out of reach?
Here is the thing, you can't just KEEP changing how we earn rewards and expect a continued response to the game. A LOT of people were angry when you changed the borg set's earning to a reputation system gating the mk XI and Mk XII behind literally HOURS of gameplay. No one is happy with seeing fleet marks and dilithium made even harder to earn.
You want to rebalance the game, fine, do it announced and be up front with the data from the start, because this is a breech of trust between the devs and the players. We ask certain things from you, (and yes I am a paying customer, 15$ a month for a VERY long time), one of them being some form of consistency.
This is the only game I have EVER player where the primary currency (EC in this case) cannot be earned in combat or by completing missions. What you can do is earn different gear and sell that gear, I understand that, however I would like to point out, that that makes certain stories more popular to run, makes some things unpopular and makes life generally harder then it needs to be. EVERYONE should be able too, through continual casual play, unlock everything in a TIMELY manner.
For the record, Timely is not 6 months, it is not a year. Look to the other MMO I played, City of Heroes, which has shut down but not due to being unprofitable. Yes we had farming, but it was a specialty thing, the farmers supplied the auction house, and the auction house supplied the players with the gear they needed to survive the game.
EVERYONE was earning Influence (that games currency) and using it regularly, to enhance they're characters. I have played this game for a very long time and outside getting a lock box ship sold on the market have NEVER had more then 10 million EC at a time.
You talk about wanting to retain us, retain us by making us invested in our story, making us want to come play more Star Trek, invested because we want to know where the stroy is going, not cause "I am halfway through getting that next nifty piece of gear."
that is very much poor thinking. We need some goals we can meet within a month, goals we can meet in a day, and things to make us feel accomplished everytime we play that we are not paying out of pocket for.
Dilithium should be earned via Foundry Missions, so should Fleet Marks, if you have to mark some missions as no go for that we understand, (but don't like it). EC should be earned as a mission reward EVERY MISSION, or even as a "kill reward" for badguys.
Give us some way of earning as a normal MMO would. What you have now is a currency starved, glut of selling equipment on your Exchange, and people constantly underbidding because they need to sell what they have. This is not a healthy market. A healthy market would have standing prices that you could expect an item to sell for, and enough EC in the game that people aren't underbidding each other all the time.
For that matter this is an MMORPG, Massively MULTIPLAYER Online RPG, you should be encouraging, but not making mandatory, team play by giving faster earning to those who play on teams. What you are doing with the fleet system is making it so that players play on PUGs and never form lasting relationships or community within the game.
Please look into my suggestions a bit at least, and have a wonderful day...
V/R
Elvnsword
TL:DR
We have too little currency influx, and too much GM arbitration of currency levels.
Sorry to bother, guys, but could it be that the foundry has been taken offline today for maintenance due to the rewards changes to be implemented or related issues?
I was working on a project up to a couple of hours ago, but unable to save it... then I lost connection, and now I am unable to log back on.
The game works just fine - but I am not even able to click on the "Create Content" tab on the main screen any more.
Any idea what might have happened?