Beam arrays normally drain to much power for such slow cycle rates, can be easily fixed by disallowing them to fire together and with long 4sec cycles w/4sec cd's.
Weak use of engineering boffs, as you limit variety with boffs especially in the commander rank dept. Commander boff skills need just as much versatility as LT. & LT.Cmdr. but instead get poor selection of useable skills.
Hull and Shield strength mods a complete joke as tier 5 escorts can almost easily match that by very few points, Cruisers definitely need a bigger boost to hull and shield strength numbers, or escorts need their numbers reduced.
Maneuverability as in capable defense points is greately done wrong, not only do escorts move faster in general but retain a higher defense bonus than cruisers for the same given skill points spent in defense. Firing radius is not a viable excuse as any ship can make use of BA's wide firing arc.
Less Tac consoles on mostly every ship but a rare few versus escorts. That in itself is no less than a possible 30%+dmg mitigation.
1 more useable weapon slot over typical escort!!!! WoW that's gonna be a gamebreaker there let me tell you. A typical cruiser carries by far more weapons capability than most ships, but is limited to being no better than an escort in this dept.
1-2 more eng consoles over typical escort!!! These help but again are not really gamebreakers. A poor way to add to the cruisers weak defense and hull strength making it somewhat more survivable.
These are some biggies here and the list can keep growing easily!!!
You are right, when flying the most mobile and fastest ships ingame, I also would always stay 10 km away from my target escpacially if my cannons do the most damage on close distance :rolleyes:
cruisers being UP is a very narrow scope of the problem. its that DHC's and the insane healing and anti spike measures to counter DHCs make everything else a joke.
beam arrays, make them fire 1 shot per cycle with their current dps. being more like a DHC, they would actually have an effect when they hit. or only let beams be like this on fed cruisers, in only the forward arc. then at least they would have beams correct in game.
Well, the part about engineering captains was, though that may change along with FAW. There's a reason why most premade teams don't want to run with less than three science captains though, and engineering bridge officer abilities are just as good as any other, though the only viable options at ensign are EPtX or ET1 (if you're taking it for the clear and not the heal)
You are right, when flying the most mobile and fastest ships ingame, I also would always stay 10 km away from my target escpacially if my cannons do the most damage on close distance :rolleyes:
Sure, if it's your life mission not to have that cruiser broadside you you're going to make it difficult for him to do so. But it's a 5v5 game. If you're trying to take down a target, or there's a bursty escort targeting you as well you aren't going to worry all too much about the cruiser 4-8km away broadsiding you, with good reason.
Now don't get me wrong, I think with the current state of the game cruisers aren't needed outside of a few specialty builds (though again, that may change with the next iteration of FAW), but I'm still going to call you on your wrongheaded arguments.
That calc is useless! No one will attack a cruiser from broadside and with a fed cruiser, you cant do anything to get them in full weapon range.
There's just so much wrong with this statement....
1. In an arena match I don't care what direction a cruiser's weapons are pointing when they're called as the target. I care about lining up a kill as quickly and efficiently as possible.
2. Again, just because you're attacking a cruiser from outside his broadside arc doesn't mean that he's going to attack you back. If he's on a team, he'll focus on the kill target. If he's pugging and is semi-decent he'll either have positioned himself appropriately against his opponent or just picked one that's already in position.
3. A cruiser pilot with even the smallest amount of intelligence can line up a broadside on any target, at least for a small amount of time, with the combination of reverse with evasive and/or deuterium.
4. Single beams have very similar DPS to single cannons (cannons have higher DPS <5km, while beams win out >5km), but cannons can't broadside at all.
with this, these ships would be more resilient against more combat situations
This is the wrong approach.
The biggest problem in PVP these days is that the t4 shield passives, human boffs and resists from things like elite shields provide a huge amount of base regeneration that is independent of the ship classes (and embassy consoles and elite fleet weapons also provide heals). This free healing baseline is so powerful that it cannot be overcome by pressure damage anymore. This invalidates any builds whose main (and besides EWP pretty much only) offensive weapon is damage over time.
Boosting hull and shields will not help make cruisers more useful, since it's not their survivability that puts them at a disadvantage. The problem is an environment that has reduced their effectiveness as damage dealers to next to nothing and at the same time has opened up cruiser-style healing to other ship classes via hybrid boff layouts.
The biggest problem in PVP these days is that the t4 shield passives, human boffs and resists from things like elite shields provide a huge amount of base regeneration that is independent of the ship classes (and embassy consoles and elite fleet weapons also provide heals). This free healing baseline is so powerful that it cannot be overcome by pressure damage anymore. This invalidates any builds whose main (and besides EWP pretty much only) offensive weapon is damage over time.
Boosting hull and shields will not help make cruisers more useful, since it's not their survivability that puts them at a disadvantage. The problem is an environment that has reduced their effectiveness as damage dealers to next to nothing and at the same time has opened up cruiser-style healing to other ship classes via hybrid boff layouts.
Someone please give this mancom (see what I did there!) a beer. Cheers mate. It thrills me to read intellect.
at the same time has opened up cruiser-style healing to other ship classes via hybrid boff layouts.
So if I grind those things, I can slot beams in an escort, buff them with tac skills and still be both more effective beamer then cruiser while being as much tanky?
What is the reason for having cruisers in this game again?
So if I grind those things, I can slot beams in an escort, buff them with tac skills and still be both more effective beamer then cruiser while being as much tanky?
What is the reason for having cruisers in this game again?
I think you missed what Mancom was saying.
Currently escorts, because of all these things are healing much longer and more effective than they should be able to.
As a result, their window of opportunity to inflict damage against cruisers as significantly widened, while the time it takes cruisers to now inflict damage against escorts has lengthened, to the point where the maths of the equation falls heavily in favor of the escort.
mankomo ( xP ) - i didnt miss the point, what you said is known by everyone, those free heals can be used by anyone, not only escorts, and cruisers healings benefit more than escort ones because they are affected by the base hull / shield mod, i said " +hull ( still impractical ) i know how things are, so i came with the idea of the innate skills, but still i think that wouldnt make much sense after talking with some more folks
the problem is on the cruiser layout, comm eng, lt cm eng, and ensign eng, as the galaxy has, makes it useless, coz the skills you can use on it are eptX or eng team, making you unable to use eptX 2 or obligating you to use ET2, this type of layouts are terrebly limited, not only on boffs but on console slots too, the sweet point of plating consoles is 3, so if a cruiser have 4 or 5 eng console slots, they are ( for a point of view ) useless, because you would have to use an rcs or an universal console to fill those slots, which in an escort you wouldnt need to do so, because any tac console slot is much more usefull than any fourth or fifth eng console slot
the same unbalance is applied on tac skills, im talking about the APO, yes, make it 5secs effect or nerf the doffs, that would be the sollution, there are so many free proccs, heals, buffs and stuff, that stuff is making that extra hull on cruisers useless
back on my point, carriers dont loose nothing compared to cruisers while they gain 2 hangar bays, and some carriers have even more hull and shield than cruisers, thats why my idea of adding those innate skills for non carrier cruiser ships, to make the comparison more fair
there should be more skills, engineering skills are pretty limited, boarding party is removed by TT, aceton beam is removed hazard emitters, that leaves cruisers with almost no offensive skills, DEM would be a choise but with beams ? cannons ? =S
That calc is useless! No one will attack a cruiser from broadside and with a fed cruiser, you cant do anything to get them in full weapon range.
my escourt will attack a crusier from broadside, thoes beams dont hurt. im not really sure what happened but i dont seem to remember the last time i was forced off. maybe before the f2p era. what happned?
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
The biggest problem in PVP these days is that the t4 shield passives, human boffs and resists from things like elite shields provide a huge amount of base regeneration that is independent of the ship classes (and embassy consoles and elite fleet weapons also provide heals). This free healing baseline is so powerful that it cannot be overcome by pressure damage anymore. This invalidates any builds whose main (and besides EWP pretty much only) offensive weapon is damage over time.
Boosting hull and shields will not help make cruisers more useful, since it's not their survivability that puts them at a disadvantage. The problem is an environment that has reduced their effectiveness as damage dealers to next to nothing and at the same time has opened up cruiser-style healing to other ship classes via hybrid boff layouts.
ahh ok lol should have read first. but still hilbert, when i havent even picked any sheild healing rep or fleet sheilds how do i account for taking broad sides as if it was nothing? only think i can think of is 2 sdo and the rsp while the bug ship is giving good shield hp. might need to hop back into my defiant for a bit.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
ahh ok lol should have read first. but still hilbert, when i havent even picked any sheild healing rep or fleet sheilds how do i account for taking broad sides as if it was nothing? only think i can think of is 2 sdo and the rsp while the bug ship is giving good shield hp. might need to hop back into my defiant for a bit.
Usually the explanation is simple: the beam cruiser pilot sucks.
How many good beam cruiser pilots are there? If you exclude the main healers, there really aren't many good players flying these things.
I used to have great success with my tac/fleet excelsior, but now that T4 heals are more widespread, it's futile to shoot a target that has even a little bit of shield resists. Forcing a player to use heals on themselves beyond the self-only EPtS and the occasional ET is almost impossible.
If you like, we can test this sometime and see how my tac/excelsior performs against your ship. Maybe there is a variable that I haven't noticed yet.
back on my point, carriers dont loose nothing compared to cruisers while they gain 2 hangar bays, and some carriers have even more hull and shield than cruisers, thats why my idea of adding those innate skills for non carrier cruiser ships, to make the comparison more fair
there should be more skills, engineering skills are pretty limited, boarding party is removed by TT, aceton beam is removed hazard emitters, that leaves cruisers with almost no offensive skills, DEM would be a choise but with beams ? cannons ? =S
Carriers lose two weapon slots. While pet spam is annoying, it's not doing all that much in terms of directed damage unless you have a full spam team that completely overloads any defenses.
The boff layout on ships like the Galaxy has only become too eng-heavy now that doffs reduce all kinds of cooldowns and remove the need for multiple copies of the important eng abilities.
Usually the explanation is simple: the beam cruiser pilot sucks.
How many good beam cruiser pilots are there? If you exclude the main healers, there really aren't many good players flying these things.
I used to have great success with my tac/fleet excelsior, but now that T4 heals are more widespread, it's futile to shoot a target that has even a little bit of shield resists. Forcing a player to use heals on themselves beyond the self-only EPtS and the occasional ET is almost impossible.
If you like, we can test this sometime and see how my tac/excelsior performs against your ship. Maybe there is a variable that I haven't noticed yet.
You left out the Sci Console repair procs as well.
Still, I'd wait till FaW gets fixed. Who knows how 40 fixed FaW beams w/phased polaron procs would do to KDF anyway (generally only 1 human boff if that).
Also, as I mentioned before a boost to the base of Sci shield stripping powers would help both pressure and spike damage builds.
A bit off topic, now that there'sa pseudo AoE APA w/new Jem stuff and SNB doffs, which class in theory could take best advantage of this? Not to support that kind of build, but I wonder if Engineers would do best in that?
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my escourt will attack a crusier from broadside, thoes beams dont hurt. im not really sure what happened but i dont seem to remember the last time i was forced off. maybe before the f2p era. what happned?
Whatever Cryptic did to FAW may have effected beams across the board or they simply fell behind in comparison to Cannons with all the Doffs and Tac buffs that directly effect Cannons. But yeah, Beams aren't even effective for clearing spam anymore. Beams are only mildy more effective on a Sci ship piloted by a Sci captain because their dmg and acc can be boosted by Science debuffs.
it looks like people are coming around to how antiquated fed cruisers are finally. even if they can produce ok dps, dps at that level and pace is irreverent. only 4 DHC bug DPS can shoot through your entire shield hitpoints faster then you can easily reinforce them. with ever boost to healing spike and timing become more important, as well as debuffs and sci captions. theres no longer a point to firing beam arrays nearly at all. even in my not much of a healer fed tac cruiser builds, i almost cant even drive escorts away, let alone kill them in an isolated fight.
since the ambassador came out, ive really been attempting to put something together with them that has some kind of use at all, its not happening. but then i can jump on my kdf cruiser and practically be another escort, wile having twice the durability. theres no reason why kdf cruisers should be nearly as good of healing platforms, and have 10x as much tactical potential.
and theres only 1 reason why that is, DHC useability. DHCs with CRF can single out a shield facing for damage, and deal damage through it faster then shields can automatically distribute. thats why TT is critical, or there would be no stopping DHC firepower. with every other weapon, you have to shoot entirely through someones shields befor you even start to do hull damage, that requires time, and on a team with cross healing, you will never get someone to that point with non DHC weapons.
as for FAW, fixed it will just make target able objects as nonviable as they used to be. FAW3 currently does only about 3/4 the damage per shot an unbuffed shot will. so even if its accurate, and theres only 1 target to hit, your lowering your dps by using it. idk wtf happened there, but thats crazy. of course wile its on it doesn't list DPS too.
when FAW was at its worse, it was like fireing 3 shots every shot as long as there was 3 targets, 5 times a cycle. and it was proboly 100% accurate too. now it only deals 5 shots per cycle randomly, and FAW3 even it its most ideal single target situation might be dealing less dps then unbuffed, to say nothing of FAW1&2. beam arrays have never been this low, and have had so many factors stacked against them.
at this point i really think DHCs TT, and ES should be removed from the game completely. it would be interesting to see some premades face off banning these things and to see what they think.
my escourt will attack a crusier from broadside, thoes beams dont hurt. im not really sure what happened but i dont seem to remember the last time i was forced off. maybe before the f2p era. what happned?
Different things over time:
Removed near 100% Acc using FaW
Buffs to shield and hull ship mods. This led to higher base shield HP and Regen and hull HP buffer.
Buff to ship movement (mainly C-Store).
Buff to C-Store console layout.
Buff to power (mainly via doffs but also for KDF plas leech). This leads to higher power levels and therefore shield resists.
Buff to gear, 1st STF than Fleet lead depending on the set higher resists/power levels, higher HP cap, better movement/regen.
1st Borg "nerf" tended to trigger repairs when they were needed most for those who used them.
Shield Distro Doffs/Hazzard Doffs, the 1st shield distro doffs had higher repair than TSS3, hazzard doffs like slotting resist console when using BFI or Ram speed.
1st iteration of Maint doffs, reduced cooldown to all teams and only needed a couple to reach cap.
More Hybrid Boff layouts allowed for more self reliance on repairs and CC/debuff counters on ships w/o Raider reduced defensive attributes.
1st iteration of conn officer doffs allowed for 15 second cooldown on evasives.
On the otherhand they did fix the shield regen bug/exploit and added Tet glider which at 1st did over 100+ drain per hit depending on the build.
Skill revamp made it easier to spec into Tac skills and have plenty left over for eng resists and Sci debuff resists. Power skill point investment not as important as it used to be imo.
There's been a lot more, but basically there's been a push for hybrid Kirk like abilities on all ship types and a blurring of the original game design playstyles between factions.
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Except for Galaxy and its derivates, all cruisers are fine. There is nothing wrong with them. It's the escorts. Stacking passives / doffin now allows for much resilient builds.
Galaxy is fail, because of the combination of heavy engy layout, useless engi consoles, and crappistic turn rate with loathose inertia AND the most important aspect - Gecko personally hates it.
Just would like to point out, that for crappy turn cruiser it is much harder to point 70 degree full broadside, than the 45 degree on escort. In a hypothetica cruisers vs. escort fight. The only time it is not problem, is when the escort is sure he will survive and does not bother to maneuaver behind.
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Just would like to point out, that for crappy turn cruiser it is much harder to point 70 degree full broadside, than the 45 degree on escort. In a hypothetica cruisers vs. escort fight. The only time it is not problem, is when the escort is sure he will survive and does not bother to maneuaver behind.
In a 1v1 sure.
But more often than not an Escort won't primary a cruiser in an Arena, but another more nimble target instead. Even if an Escort is on his rear, the cruiser just goes to a stop and turtles while his teammates ff on the escort who will be at a near stop if he's not bothered to move on. All the while the cruiser can attack another target that's in it's full broadside, or even evasives reverse EWP on the what should be disabled Escort behind him and position then to a full broadside.
It's not designed to be a 1v1 ship, it's designed to support in a group.
There have been plenty of hybrid ships added to the game for 1v1 matches.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
as for FAW, fixed it will just make target able objects as nonviable as they used to be. FAW3 currently does only about 3/4 the damage per shot an unbuffed shot will. so even if its accurate, and theres only 1 target to hit, your lowering your dps by using it. idk wtf happened there, but thats crazy. of course wile its on it doesn't list DPS too.
You sure about this ? I checked the FAW3 tooltip today, and my FAW3 hit has higher base dmg than regular hit and it is a volley of 5 instead 4.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
You sure about this ? I checked the FAW3 tooltip today, and my FAW3 hit has higher base dmg than regular hit and it is a volley of 5 instead 4.
i took another look and strangely enough its not quite as bad as i thought. still, FAW3 is the only one that does more damage per shot
1081 standard, 4324 max for a cycle
1020 faw1, 5100 max for a cycle
1078 faw2, 5390 max for a cycle
1143 faw 3, 5715 max for a cycle
FAW3 is actually a slightly nonlinear bump vs the other 2. version 1 or 3 then always imo. i also checked to see if the tool tip for other weapon types was lowered when faw was on, and it didn't lower what was listed for a single cannon, so that might be fixed.
still, FAW is in the zone of worthless damage still. if there was anyone around for cross healing it would be shooting all over still too. only in long encounters were theres every opportunity to run easily do arrays eventually do dangerous damage. and thats only if you go all out to deal damage with them
It should do more damage, but doesn't because of the ACC bug. Don't forget that FAW increases weapons power drain too.
I know that, just saying the tooltip wasn't that bad as he said it is. Anyone tried FAW3 on the Bug ? or other 5 tac console ship ? :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
All the while the cruiser can attack another target that's in it's full broadside, or even evasives reverse EWP on the what should be disabled Escort behind him and position then to a full broadside.
If they're running with two copies of APO and have the proper Doff's, there's no such thing as a disabled Escort and that's part of the problem imo.
Cruisers need an ability to chain with BO. Like say for instance Focus beam array, where as all power from from the other beams focus into one beam then chain with BO3 to give the same spike damage that chaining go down fighting and appack pattern beta and attack pattern alpha and CRF3 does on an escourt. Just give cruisers an ability to chain with BO3 that will strip facing shields in one pass like escourts have and then Cruiser would be competitive again.
Comments
Beam arrays normally drain to much power for such slow cycle rates, can be easily fixed by disallowing them to fire together and with long 4sec cycles w/4sec cd's.
Weak use of engineering boffs, as you limit variety with boffs especially in the commander rank dept. Commander boff skills need just as much versatility as LT. & LT.Cmdr. but instead get poor selection of useable skills.
Hull and Shield strength mods a complete joke as tier 5 escorts can almost easily match that by very few points, Cruisers definitely need a bigger boost to hull and shield strength numbers, or escorts need their numbers reduced.
Maneuverability as in capable defense points is greately done wrong, not only do escorts move faster in general but retain a higher defense bonus than cruisers for the same given skill points spent in defense. Firing radius is not a viable excuse as any ship can make use of BA's wide firing arc.
Less Tac consoles on mostly every ship but a rare few versus escorts. That in itself is no less than a possible 30%+dmg mitigation.
1 more useable weapon slot over typical escort!!!! WoW that's gonna be a gamebreaker there let me tell you. A typical cruiser carries by far more weapons capability than most ships, but is limited to being no better than an escort in this dept.
1-2 more eng consoles over typical escort!!! These help but again are not really gamebreakers. A poor way to add to the cruisers weak defense and hull strength making it somewhat more survivable.
These are some biggies here and the list can keep growing easily!!!
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True
You are right, when flying the most mobile and fastest ships ingame, I also would always stay 10 km away from my target escpacially if my cannons do the most damage on close distance :rolleyes:
beam arrays, make them fire 1 shot per cycle with their current dps. being more like a DHC, they would actually have an effect when they hit. or only let beams be like this on fed cruisers, in only the forward arc. then at least they would have beams correct in game.
Well, the part about engineering captains was, though that may change along with FAW. There's a reason why most premade teams don't want to run with less than three science captains though, and engineering bridge officer abilities are just as good as any other, though the only viable options at ensign are EPtX or ET1 (if you're taking it for the clear and not the heal)
Beams have a 250 degree arc, regular cannons are 180. 250 > 180, therefore your claim that cannons have a larger arc than beams is false.
Sure, if it's your life mission not to have that cruiser broadside you you're going to make it difficult for him to do so. But it's a 5v5 game. If you're trying to take down a target, or there's a bursty escort targeting you as well you aren't going to worry all too much about the cruiser 4-8km away broadsiding you, with good reason.
Now don't get me wrong, I think with the current state of the game cruisers aren't needed outside of a few specialty builds (though again, that may change with the next iteration of FAW), but I'm still going to call you on your wrongheaded arguments.
That calc is useless! No one will attack a cruiser from broadside and with a fed cruiser, you cant do anything to get them in full weapon range.
There's just so much wrong with this statement....
1. In an arena match I don't care what direction a cruiser's weapons are pointing when they're called as the target. I care about lining up a kill as quickly and efficiently as possible.
2. Again, just because you're attacking a cruiser from outside his broadside arc doesn't mean that he's going to attack you back. If he's on a team, he'll focus on the kill target. If he's pugging and is semi-decent he'll either have positioned himself appropriately against his opponent or just picked one that's already in position.
3. A cruiser pilot with even the smallest amount of intelligence can line up a broadside on any target, at least for a small amount of time, with the combination of reverse with evasive and/or deuterium.
4. Single beams have very similar DPS to single cannons (cannons have higher DPS <5km, while beams win out >5km), but cannons can't broadside at all.
The biggest problem in PVP these days is that the t4 shield passives, human boffs and resists from things like elite shields provide a huge amount of base regeneration that is independent of the ship classes (and embassy consoles and elite fleet weapons also provide heals). This free healing baseline is so powerful that it cannot be overcome by pressure damage anymore. This invalidates any builds whose main (and besides EWP pretty much only) offensive weapon is damage over time.
Boosting hull and shields will not help make cruisers more useful, since it's not their survivability that puts them at a disadvantage. The problem is an environment that has reduced their effectiveness as damage dealers to next to nothing and at the same time has opened up cruiser-style healing to other ship classes via hybrid boff layouts.
Someone please give this mancom (see what I did there!) a beer. Cheers mate. It thrills me to read intellect.
So if I grind those things, I can slot beams in an escort, buff them with tac skills and still be both more effective beamer then cruiser while being as much tanky?
What is the reason for having cruisers in this game again?
I think you missed what Mancom was saying.
Currently escorts, because of all these things are healing much longer and more effective than they should be able to.
As a result, their window of opportunity to inflict damage against cruisers as significantly widened, while the time it takes cruisers to now inflict damage against escorts has lengthened, to the point where the maths of the equation falls heavily in favor of the escort.
the problem is on the cruiser layout, comm eng, lt cm eng, and ensign eng, as the galaxy has, makes it useless, coz the skills you can use on it are eptX or eng team, making you unable to use eptX 2 or obligating you to use ET2, this type of layouts are terrebly limited, not only on boffs but on console slots too, the sweet point of plating consoles is 3, so if a cruiser have 4 or 5 eng console slots, they are ( for a point of view ) useless, because you would have to use an rcs or an universal console to fill those slots, which in an escort you wouldnt need to do so, because any tac console slot is much more usefull than any fourth or fifth eng console slot
the same unbalance is applied on tac skills, im talking about the APO, yes, make it 5secs effect or nerf the doffs, that would be the sollution, there are so many free proccs, heals, buffs and stuff, that stuff is making that extra hull on cruisers useless
back on my point, carriers dont loose nothing compared to cruisers while they gain 2 hangar bays, and some carriers have even more hull and shield than cruisers, thats why my idea of adding those innate skills for non carrier cruiser ships, to make the comparison more fair
there should be more skills, engineering skills are pretty limited, boarding party is removed by TT, aceton beam is removed hazard emitters, that leaves cruisers with almost no offensive skills, DEM would be a choise but with beams ? cannons ? =S
my escourt will attack a crusier from broadside, thoes beams dont hurt. im not really sure what happened but i dont seem to remember the last time i was forced off. maybe before the f2p era. what happned?
ahh ok lol should have read first. but still hilbert, when i havent even picked any sheild healing rep or fleet sheilds how do i account for taking broad sides as if it was nothing? only think i can think of is 2 sdo and the rsp while the bug ship is giving good shield hp. might need to hop back into my defiant for a bit.
How many good beam cruiser pilots are there? If you exclude the main healers, there really aren't many good players flying these things.
I used to have great success with my tac/fleet excelsior, but now that T4 heals are more widespread, it's futile to shoot a target that has even a little bit of shield resists. Forcing a player to use heals on themselves beyond the self-only EPtS and the occasional ET is almost impossible.
If you like, we can test this sometime and see how my tac/excelsior performs against your ship. Maybe there is a variable that I haven't noticed yet.
The boff layout on ships like the Galaxy has only become too eng-heavy now that doffs reduce all kinds of cooldowns and remove the need for multiple copies of the important eng abilities.
You left out the Sci Console repair procs as well.
Still, I'd wait till FaW gets fixed. Who knows how 40 fixed FaW beams w/phased polaron procs would do to KDF anyway (generally only 1 human boff if that).
Also, as I mentioned before a boost to the base of Sci shield stripping powers would help both pressure and spike damage builds.
A bit off topic, now that there'sa pseudo AoE APA w/new Jem stuff and SNB doffs, which class in theory could take best advantage of this? Not to support that kind of build, but I wonder if Engineers would do best in that?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Whatever Cryptic did to FAW may have effected beams across the board or they simply fell behind in comparison to Cannons with all the Doffs and Tac buffs that directly effect Cannons. But yeah, Beams aren't even effective for clearing spam anymore. Beams are only mildy more effective on a Sci ship piloted by a Sci captain because their dmg and acc can be boosted by Science debuffs.
since the ambassador came out, ive really been attempting to put something together with them that has some kind of use at all, its not happening. but then i can jump on my kdf cruiser and practically be another escort, wile having twice the durability. theres no reason why kdf cruisers should be nearly as good of healing platforms, and have 10x as much tactical potential.
and theres only 1 reason why that is, DHC useability. DHCs with CRF can single out a shield facing for damage, and deal damage through it faster then shields can automatically distribute. thats why TT is critical, or there would be no stopping DHC firepower. with every other weapon, you have to shoot entirely through someones shields befor you even start to do hull damage, that requires time, and on a team with cross healing, you will never get someone to that point with non DHC weapons.
as for FAW, fixed it will just make target able objects as nonviable as they used to be. FAW3 currently does only about 3/4 the damage per shot an unbuffed shot will. so even if its accurate, and theres only 1 target to hit, your lowering your dps by using it. idk wtf happened there, but thats crazy. of course wile its on it doesn't list DPS too.
when FAW was at its worse, it was like fireing 3 shots every shot as long as there was 3 targets, 5 times a cycle. and it was proboly 100% accurate too. now it only deals 5 shots per cycle randomly, and FAW3 even it its most ideal single target situation might be dealing less dps then unbuffed, to say nothing of FAW1&2. beam arrays have never been this low, and have had so many factors stacked against them.
at this point i really think DHCs TT, and ES should be removed from the game completely. it would be interesting to see some premades face off banning these things and to see what they think.
Different things over time:
Removed near 100% Acc using FaW
Buffs to shield and hull ship mods. This led to higher base shield HP and Regen and hull HP buffer.
Buff to ship movement (mainly C-Store).
Buff to C-Store console layout.
Buff to power (mainly via doffs but also for KDF plas leech). This leads to higher power levels and therefore shield resists.
Buff to gear, 1st STF than Fleet lead depending on the set higher resists/power levels, higher HP cap, better movement/regen.
1st Borg "nerf" tended to trigger repairs when they were needed most for those who used them.
Shield Distro Doffs/Hazzard Doffs, the 1st shield distro doffs had higher repair than TSS3, hazzard doffs like slotting resist console when using BFI or Ram speed.
1st iteration of Maint doffs, reduced cooldown to all teams and only needed a couple to reach cap.
More Hybrid Boff layouts allowed for more self reliance on repairs and CC/debuff counters on ships w/o Raider reduced defensive attributes.
1st iteration of conn officer doffs allowed for 15 second cooldown on evasives.
On the otherhand they did fix the shield regen bug/exploit and added Tet glider which at 1st did over 100+ drain per hit depending on the build.
Skill revamp made it easier to spec into Tac skills and have plenty left over for eng resists and Sci debuff resists. Power skill point investment not as important as it used to be imo.
There's been a lot more, but basically there's been a push for hybrid Kirk like abilities on all ship types and a blurring of the original game design playstyles between factions.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Galaxy is fail, because of the combination of heavy engy layout, useless engi consoles, and crappistic turn rate with loathose inertia AND the most important aspect - Gecko personally hates it.
Just would like to point out, that for crappy turn cruiser it is much harder to point 70 degree full broadside, than the 45 degree on escort. In a hypothetica cruisers vs. escort fight. The only time it is not problem, is when the escort is sure he will survive and does not bother to maneuaver behind.
In a 1v1 sure.
But more often than not an Escort won't primary a cruiser in an Arena, but another more nimble target instead. Even if an Escort is on his rear, the cruiser just goes to a stop and turtles while his teammates ff on the escort who will be at a near stop if he's not bothered to move on. All the while the cruiser can attack another target that's in it's full broadside, or even evasives reverse EWP on the what should be disabled Escort behind him and position then to a full broadside.
It's not designed to be a 1v1 ship, it's designed to support in a group.
There have been plenty of hybrid ships added to the game for 1v1 matches.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
You sure about this ? I checked the FAW3 tooltip today, and my FAW3 hit has higher base dmg than regular hit and it is a volley of 5 instead 4.
i took another look and strangely enough its not quite as bad as i thought. still, FAW3 is the only one that does more damage per shot
1081 standard, 4324 max for a cycle
1020 faw1, 5100 max for a cycle
1078 faw2, 5390 max for a cycle
1143 faw 3, 5715 max for a cycle
FAW3 is actually a slightly nonlinear bump vs the other 2. version 1 or 3 then always imo. i also checked to see if the tool tip for other weapon types was lowered when faw was on, and it didn't lower what was listed for a single cannon, so that might be fixed.
still, FAW is in the zone of worthless damage still. if there was anyone around for cross healing it would be shooting all over still too. only in long encounters were theres every opportunity to run easily do arrays eventually do dangerous damage. and thats only if you go all out to deal damage with them
It should do more damage, but doesn't because of the ACC bug. Don't forget that FAW increases weapons power drain too.
I know that, just saying the tooltip wasn't that bad as he said it is. Anyone tried FAW3 on the Bug ? or other 5 tac console ship ?
If they're running with two copies of APO and have the proper Doff's, there's no such thing as a disabled Escort and that's part of the problem imo.
It's still got a cooldown even with AP doffs.