2nd Hi again after long time with no post (but always keep an eye here) and after calm mi self (because if not ill sure get baned for all thing i want post the first time i see "LUXURY LINER") ... To be honest i get extremly disapointed after all bu****** the dev team say why is not posible to redo the galaxy-R and the G-X and release that "REBOOT" whe get another slap in the face.
But what is a startrek game without the most iconic , hero ship , or callit whatever yuo like ?
i tellyuo what is any other scifi game with some names and places like yuo see in the shows...
since this is other nail in the cofin for the galaxy family, and i dont think this will be the last, i give up mi hopes to see a decent galaxy in this game.
Only thing stopme from quit is i met a lot of nice ppl and i have a lot of fun and god times with this ppl a few of them become real life friends.
But don really know how long i will be here if mi friends and i find ani other game what like all of us then i will come to this forum (im sure this thread will never die ) i will say good bye and good luck to all of yuo.
This game has a nice potencial , a shame is wasted like this...
and is not so hard to please all players we tell them handred of times , made real the option of change BO layauot in the ship yard and all is over , but dev team was to busy with a new ESD ...
And dont ask for mi gear all is boudn to character :rolleyes:
yep, now a literal cruise ship will be better then a supposed cruise ship
Yeah and how ridiculous they are gonna look taking out cubes in STFs ?
I mean, CBS says no to a T5 connie, Cryptic keeps the Galaxy class down as the worst ship in the game, but a Risan Yacht is TOTALLY FINE. :rolleyes:
But as I've said in an earlier thread, this is it for me personally. This is the moment for me.
At least it's the right design for jumpin the Carcharodon carcharias.
Sovereign class is 100ft longer than the Galaxy class, and only 13 decks shorter, which can easily be accounted for in the Sovereign's lack of a "neck". The Sovereign also had an embarrassing wealth of phaser arrays compared to the Galaxy, 18 to 12 (both picked up additional arrays on refit). The Sovereign had 5 torpedo launchers at launch, and an additional 5 during refit, to the Galaxy's single fore- and aft launchers.
the only way you could mistake the sovereign for being as big or bigger then the galaxy is from a side profile shot, but of all the angles that's the most misleading.
volume wise, the galaxy class is more then double the soverign's m³.
people weigh number of emitters and launchers as being much more important as they are. these things aren't cannon barrels, what maters most is how long they are, and how many emitters are linked in the main guns, and how high burst a launcher is capable of fireing.
the akira class has 3 phaser arrays, so it should have really poor firepower right? wrong, all it needs is 3 to cover basically every fireing arc. the sovereign needs so many individual arrays because the design gives it so many potential blind spots that need coverage, and with the angle of the saucer it cant line up more then one of its 3 main arrays on a single target at once, lest its the size of a cube or something.
arrays are built out of sometimes hundreds of emitters, each emitter is its own independent phaser bank with its own EPS conduit and its own prefire capacitor to hold a charge. the array configuration links emitters together, allowing for each emitter to pass its charge down the array to the point the computer chooses to fire from. that is the moving glow effect you see in the show before a beam is fired. that being the case, the more emitters linked together, the higher per shot firepower a ship can have. the galaxy, and nebula, is without peer in main array length, its longest being more then twice as long as the sovereign's longest. this is why you never really see the galaxy fire anywhere but its main array, fireing much less powerful shots from the smaller point defense arrays is pointless if the main array is in arc. how powerful a shot will be can be dialed in by how many emitters are involved in the moving glow effect too.
torpedo launchers come in all sorts of sizes, and burst capacity. from single shot before reload, to the common 3 to 4 burst before reload, the the enormousness potential of the galaxy's launchers to spit out 10+ in about a second each. the most we see each launcher on an intrepid fire is about 4 per launcher, most of the sovereigns launchers were seen in nemisis fireing bursts of 3, but the 2 main fore and aft photon launchers were doubled up next to each other. quantum never fired more then 3 at once in nemesis. most of the other launchers are small, and likely single fire.
the only way you could mistake the sovereign for being as big or bigger then the galaxy is from a side profile shot, but of all the angles that's the most misleading.
volume wise, the galaxy class is more then double the soverign's m³.
people weigh number of emitters and launchers as being much more important as they are. these things aren't cannon barrels, what maters most is how long they are, and how many emitters are linked in the main guns, and how high burst a launcher is capable of fireing.
Difference in Volume is easily explained by jettisoning all the space that was needed for all the civilian non-service members.
I won't argue that the Galaxy's got a hell of a haymaker in it's saucer array. You're making a mistake in thinking strength of hit is all that matters in a fight, though. Split arrays like the Sov has means more targets able to be hit. Considering the more recent threats to the Federation being fleets of smaller, more maneuverable ships, the capability to engage more targets at once can't be dismissed. As for torps? Besides having the more traditional fore and aft launcher, it has turreted launchers as well, meaning less need to angle about to torpedo a target.
it seems necessary to bring up, for the hundredth time, that the interior configuration on modern ships, most notably the galaxy class, is almost totally modular. being full of science labs and luxury apartments is not a stranded issue galaxy thing, it was the chosen configuration of the gilded flagship, enterprise D. you see the same ship, set up in the opposite way, in yesterdays enterprise. in that war time, theirs no discernible exterior difference, it wasn't needed. its just that, that ship was set up to soak damage, carry thousands of troops, and have no unnecessary to a battleship subsystems sucking power away from the armament and shields.
the galaxy was designed during a time of elevated turmoil too. there were multiple tzenkethy wars, a war with the tholians were an entire space dock style starbase was lost, and decades of cardasian hot and cold wars that lasted till right before DS9 took place. depending on how its modular space is configured, it could be be sent on multi decade exploration missions with little or no crew fatigue, or serve as a full fledged battleship, the symbol of federation military power. the saucer being the size and shape that it is is what allows the main arrays to be so large, and have a healthy overlapping firing arc ventral and dorsal.
the sovereign is likely the exactly the same in that way, the enterprise E just seems set up in a more military leaning way, considering the times. it was also quite a bit more crew dense, having around 700 wile being less then half the size of the enterrpise D that had just over 1000 souls aboard wile it was flush with families. which ship has excess crew quarters?
you cant explain the moving glow effect on the array with out the 'forced coupling' process, specifically named for the combining of all the charges of the individual emitters in the array to a single shot. that's just how arrays work, and that means bigger is better.
you cant explain the moving glow effect on the array with out the 'forced coupling' process, specifically named for the combining of all the charges of the individual emitters in the array to a single shot. that's just how arrays work, and that means bigger is better.
Except bigger doesn't mean better. Bigger means hit harder. Bigger also means, compared to the same number of emmiters broken into four arrays instead of one, more limited number of targets able to be engaged at once.
I'm not trying to argue one being clearly better than the other. Just contesting the opinion that the Sov isn't a worthy successor for a flagship or combat vessel.
Except bigger doesn't mean better. Bigger means hit harder. Bigger also means, compared to the same number of emmiters broken into four arrays instead of one, more limited number of targets able to be engaged at once.
I'm not trying to argue one being clearly better than the other. Just contesting the opinion that the Sov isn't a worthy successor for a flagship or combat vessel.
The Sovereign was never intended to be the Galaxys successor.
It wouldn't make any sense, since these two ships are radically different (in Starfleet means) in size and mission profile. In my opinion the Sovereign is rather a Excelsior successor than Galaxy.
So it is not the question if one ship is superior over another, because they do not share the same scope of duties.
On the other hand the size differences alone are too great to assume that the smaller one could seriously be just as versatile or powerful than the other. (Only assuming that Starfleet keeps their biggest ships up to date, of course)
In my understanding the Sovereign is a worthy sucessor of the aging Excelsior which has become somewhat indispensable for Starfleet. It's a tough workhorse, but not playing in the same league as the huge Galaxy Class. (which is in STO a rather small ship compared to all the other monstrosities Cryptic has introduced.)
But to assume that a 10 year younger and much smaller ship could replace the biggest Starfleet and most complex ship to date (in real Star Trek history, not STO) doesn't make any sense.
I think the Galaxy Class has a big image problem. In TNG it was extremely rare to see it in combat and it was even rarer to see it fighting at full capacity. because Picard was such a fun sponge, lol.
If the big -D had survived ST:7, i am sure no one would ever second-guess its combat capabilities if she would have been seen in ST8 - 10.
Personally i think Starfleet didn't want to give Picard another expensive Galaxy Class after the events at Veridian III. It's a wonder picard or especially riker (or the whole bridge crew) didn't get court martialed and at least demoted.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Of course the Sovereign was the successor to the Galaxy. And I didnt read any of what you wrote past the first sentence.
Why?
Because it's the ship that replaced the Galaxy ON SCREEN!
...
Sorry, i didn't know that your posts where meant to be humorous.:eek:
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
We saw plenty of Galaxys in DS9. They had a nasty habit of getting eaten alive by fighter/raider swarm, both by the Dominion and by the KDF. They were brilliant against other big sluggers, but the galaxy (little g) seems to have shifted away from super cruisers. The Romulans moved towards the Mogai. The Cardassians have been using swarm tactics with the smaller, faster Galor and Keldon for decades. The Klingons use mixed squadrons of Birds-of-Prey and battle cruisers. The Dominion, although they did HAVE super cruisers, still was predominantly smaller, faster ships.
You're wholly ignoring a major factor in military design. Bigger/more damaging doesn't always mean better. Being the biggest, most damaging brick in the quadrant means nothing, if every other power is fielding more maneuverable, mixed forces.
Galaxy was design for Exploration and science FIRST. Defense second. She can hit hard but her design is more peace oriented. Despite those wars mention which were more likely similar to the 1st Gulf War than the Dominion War. Cardassian war a little more serious but still no match for the fed fully so still relative peace. However after loosing most of the first galaxys made have been lost and oncoming War the Soveriegn SUCEEDED the Galaxy as Flagship class. By DW there was known two Sovereigns made. the Sovereign and the E-E. THe Soveriegn is the Opposite coin of the Galaxy. Combat first Exporation second. and both are tied for the largest fed ship at their time. Galaxy height, Sovereign length. And while in form the Sov suceeds the Excel function wise Akiira succeds Excel. Ther are two types of Successors. one is form, one is function.
Galaxy was design for Exploration and science FIRST. Defense second. She can hit hard but her design is more peace oriented. Despite those wars mention which were more likely similar to the 1st Gulf War than the Dominion War. Cardassian war a little more serious but still no match for the fed fully so still relative peace. However after loosing most of the first galaxys made have been lost and oncoming War the Soveriegn SUCEEDED the Galaxy as Flagship class. By DW there was known two Sovereigns made. the Sovereign and the E-E. THe Soveriegn is the Opposite coin of the Galaxy. Combat first Exporation second. and both are tied for the largest fed ship at their time. Galaxy height, Sovereign length. And while in form the Sov suceeds the Excel function wise Akiira succeds Excel. Ther are two types of Successors. one is form, one is function.
As you said both ships don't share the same mission profile.
On the other hand there is NO proof that the Ent-E Sovereign Class was the federation flagship at any time. And btw, even a Intrepid could become the Federation flagship that title doesn't say anything about a ships combat power.
We have seen many Galaxy Classes at the DW, and not a single one of them where destroyed. And their existence proofs that Starfleet kept on building them, even with the Sovereign in service at the same time.
I'd say BOTH ships have their purpose in Star Trek but they are not rivals, they rather complement one another. The Sovereign Class as the robust workhorse and the Galaxy as more versatile more complex explorer type.
In STO terms the Sovereign would be more like a fast Cruiser with a ensign or lt universal, the Galaxy slower but more versatile ship with at least a Lt. Cmdr Boff station.
Regarding the GCS in STO, what about releasing a Mirror GCS with the next Lockbox with the same BOFF/Console Layout as the Mirror Universe Negh'Var?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Galaxy was design for Exploration and science FIRST. Defense second. She can hit hard but her design is more peace oriented. Despite those wars mention which were more likely similar to the 1st Gulf War than the Dominion War. Cardassian war a little more serious but still no match for the fed fully so still relative peace. However after loosing most of the first galaxys made have been lost and oncoming War the Soveriegn SUCEEDED the Galaxy as Flagship class. By DW there was known two Sovereigns made. the Sovereign and the E-E. THe Soveriegn is the Opposite coin of the Galaxy. Combat first Exporation second. and both are tied for the largest fed ship at their time. Galaxy height, Sovereign length. And while in form the Sov suceeds the Excel function wise Akiira succeds Excel. Ther are two types of Successors. one is form, one is function.
This again?
What do you think "Exploring uncharted areas of space" means? The Galaxy Class was built in limited number originally to perform the task of venturing into unknown deep space *alone* for several *years* without any external *support*. The civilians on board of the ship were not taking holiday trips. They were the families of long-term assigned officers whose lives basically took place on the ships from that moment onward. When you venture into deep space in the Trekverse, every second encounter that is not a semi-omnipotent entity of hyper evolved beings that end the quadrant with a cough is composed of some kind of hazard, hostile force or creature that will horribly murder your face. These two facts combine let the assumption that the ship would lack defensive capability appear foolish.
The sovereign on the other hand was not designed with combat in mind. This is a misassumption made because A) All the TNG movies were action based flicks with lots of shooting and It looks so much "cooler". The Sovereign's design schematics designate it as an "Explorer Mark II". It's a heavy cruiser, spiritual successor to the Excelsior design and just as much a multi-mission starship like any other Starfleet vessel aside from the Defiant and Prometheus prototype. We have no indication what the Sovereigns did in the DW, aside from the fact that the E was performing diplomatic/peacekeeping duty, putting out brushfires all over the place. This is the origin of Picard's line "remember when we were explorers?", That does not mean the Sovereign was a battleship. As the newest Starfleet design it was of course the most ADVANCED ship of it's time, like the Intrepid before, like the Galaxy before, like the Ambassador before, like the Excelsior before, like the Constitution before... And of course it's tactical systems were up-to-date - just like all the other vessel's. Starfleet designs get refitted, even the Mirandas you see get retrofitted with the best technology they can support and that includes weapons because every single Starfleet ship is an explorer, transport, battleship, representative, desaster relief vessel, search and rescue craft ... because that is the way Starfleet works.
In times of war all those vessels that are primarily designed for independent operations form battle groups and fleets and they were always just as capable or even superior to any kind of warship the enemy fielded.
There is no combat first, exploration second. The fleet is kept at the best possible level of tech, weapons, shields, engines, crew etc. via refits all the time.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
We saw plenty of Galaxys in DS9. They had a nasty habit of getting eaten alive by fighter/raider swarm, both by the Dominion and by the KDF. They were brilliant against other big sluggers, but the galaxy (little g) seems to have shifted away from super cruisers. The Romulans moved towards the Mogai. The Cardassians have been using swarm tactics with the smaller, faster Galor and Keldon for decades. The Klingons use mixed squadrons of Birds-of-Prey and battle cruisers. The Dominion, although they did HAVE super cruisers, still was predominantly smaller, faster ships.
You're wholly ignoring a major factor in military design. Bigger/more damaging doesn't always mean better. Being the biggest, most damaging brick in the quadrant means nothing, if every other power is fielding more maneuverable, mixed forces.
arrays are flexible, they can fire multiple shots, the potential energy available in all the emitters just gets split. they also have no trouble dealing with small swarming ships especially, big ships with narrow arc cannons on the other hand do. arrays have a fireing arc of everything they have line of sight with, there aren't actually any downsides relating to size on large federations ships.
during the actual dominion war, the galaxy class stomped a mud hole, none were seen destroyed during the war, and in operation return they were seen flanking the dominion fleet after they broke through, before the defiant had. the odyssey faced completely unknown dominion ships, and thanks to the changelings already in the alpha quadrant spying they knew everything they needed to circumvent federation shields and make their own impervious to phaser fire. still, the odyssey hull tanked those bug ships for around 10 minutes before retreating under its own power, suffering only superficial damage. it took a suicide run directly to main engendering to bring it down, it was not overpowered at all. later in the war, odo in a runabout defeated a bug ship 1 on 1, wile pre war 2 runabouts and a galaxy couldn't harm 2 bug ships. by the time the war broke out, all the issues in that odyssey battle were clearly addressed.
What do you think "Exploring uncharted areas of space" means? The Galaxy Class was built in limited number originally to perform the task of venturing into unknown deep space *alone* for several *years* without any external *support*. The civilians on board of the ship were not taking holiday trips. They were the families of long-term assigned officers whose lives basically took place on the ships from that moment onward. When you venture into deep space in the Trekverse, every second encounter that is not a semi-omnipotent entity of hyper evolved beings that end the quadrant with a cough is composed of some kind of hazard, hostile force or creature that will horribly murder your face. These two facts combine let the assumption that the ship would lack defensive capability appear foolish.
The sovereign on the other hand was not designed with combat in mind. This is a misassumption made because A) All the TNG movies were action based flicks with lots of shooting and It looks so much "cooler". The Sovereign's design schematics designate it as an "Explorer Mark II". It's a heavy cruiser, spiritual successor to the Excelsior design and just as much a multi-mission starship like any other Starfleet vessel aside from the Defiant and Prometheus prototype. We have no indication what the Sovereigns did in the DW, aside from the fact that the E was performing diplomatic/peacekeeping duty, putting out brushfires all over the place. This is the origin of Picard's line "remember when we were explorers?", That does not mean the Sovereign was a battleship. As the newest Starfleet design it was of course the most ADVANCED ship of it's time, like the Intrepid before, like the Galaxy before, like the Ambassador before, like the Excelsior before, like the Constitution before... And of course it's tactical systems were up-to-date - just like all the other vessel's. Starfleet designs get refitted, even the Mirandas you see get retrofitted with the best technology they can support and that includes weapons because every single Starfleet ship is an explorer, transport, battleship, representative, desaster relief vessel, search and rescue craft ... because that is the way Starfleet works.
In times of war all those vessels that are primarily designed for independent operations form battle groups and fleets and they were always just as capable or even superior to any kind of warship the enemy fielded.
There is no combat first, exploration second. The fleet is kept at the best possible level of tech, weapons, shields, engines, crew etc. via refits all the time.
im glad im not to he only one that has to spell this out anymore
...
im glad im not to he only one that has to spell this out anymore
And yet there will be surely someone coming up with this matter again, lol.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
And yet there will be surely someone coming up with this matter again, lol.
The thread is running circles. We had this very same topic a dozen times already and we will have someone bring it up again in, I'd guess, 2 pages once again.
Though who is to blame? Nobody will read anything but the current page and those of us who had the same discussion eight, nine or twelve times already will tire. I'm actually just waiting for polaronbeam to show up again to tell us we should call CBS or something. I never got what he actually wanted XD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You know something is bad wrong, when a Free cruise liner (Risa) has better stats that the Galaxy. IMO. I would be extremely happy if they would just copy and past the Liners stats to the Galaxy. At first I thought it was just a content oversight of making the Galaxy inferior but, now I think it was intentional. TBH it really doesn't make any sense. I'm not gonna go over why it doesn't make sense because theres plenty of posts already here for that.
Please Cryptic, Release a True to Cannon Galaxy class 3 pack. It will not hurt your game. It may actually save it. After season 9. We need something bad to bring us back into the STO euphoria. STO at best right now is a Love/Hate relationship. Almost your entire player base wants this and ALL your Trekies want this. So what is the problem. It would relieve some of the tension if you would at least release a statement on why this hasn't happened. Somethings eventually got to give.
You know something is bad wrong, when a Free cruise liner (Risa) has better stats that the Galaxy. IMO. I would be extremely happy if they would just copy and past the Liners stats to the Galaxy. At first I thought it was just a content oversight of making the Galaxy inferior but, now I think it was intentional. TBH it really doesn't make any sense. I'm not gonna go over why it doesn't make sense because theres plenty of posts already here for that.
Please Cryptic, Release a True to Cannon Galaxy class 3 pack. It will not hurt your game. It may actually save it. After season 9. We need something bad to bring us back into the STO euphoria. STO at best right now is a Love/Hate relationship. Almost your entire player base wants this and ALL your Trekies want this. So what is the problem. It would relieve some of the tension if you would at least release a statement on why this hasn't happened. Somethings eventually got to give.
"Luckily" it's not only the galaxy. The cruise liner puts most Starfleet cruisers to shame.
It's a free fleet-grade joke ship that's better than most ships in it's class you need to pay for. Canon aside, shouldn't someone ask themselves "wait - why are the c-store ships so inferior to the stuff we give away free?"
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
"Luckily" it's not only the galaxy. The cruise liner puts most Starfleet cruisers to shame.
It's a free fleet-grade joke ship that's better than most ships in it's class you need to pay for. Canon aside, shouldn't someone ask themselves "wait - why are the c-store ships so inferior to the stuff we give away free?"
That's a good point IMO. I actually think that the introduction of the Risean (free) cruiser could be a good reason to reconsider Cryptics Starfleet cruiser BOFF layouts.
I could imagine that Cryptic is going to release a bunch of new ships and rework existing ones in the near future. If not, then the release of the risean Cruiser would be totally stupid. Why should anyone buy a old C-Store ship anymore if there's a better ship for free?
All this doesn't make sense. Especially since they released their Galaxy 3Pack not long ago, without changing the GCS-R in any way. (which was the whole point of a 3 pack IMO)
In the worst case they will rework some older ships except the GCS, because let me quote a future dev answer:
"...we already released a 3 Pack Galaxy bundle lately, reworking those ships again would disappoint people who bought the 3 pack.":mad::mad::mad:
No matter how i turn it, i can't avoid the conclusion that someone or several ppl at Cryptic just hate the Galaxy, TNG or US for some weird reason.
Man, suddenly i remember why i needed a break from STO, lol.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Where do people get the idea that Starfleet explorers are not heavily armed ships? Seriously, every ship in Star Trek from the Constitution Class to the Sovereign Class are explorers (except for the 2 ships designed for fighting, and the very specific scientific study ships). These ships are designed to be heavily armed to go into the unknown and be able to face (almost) anything that they run into. It's after these guys have been through and verified that the place is safe that the less heavily armed science ships move in for more pointed scientific study.
No matter how i turn it, i can't avoid the conclusion that someone or several ppl at Cryptic just hate the Galaxy, TNG or US for some weird reason.
Man, suddenly i remember why i needed a break from STO, lol.
I still don't think it's something personal. Sure, Geko prefers the Excelsior over all the others, but I don't think this is a reason to actively sabotage TNG ships. It's more the inability to deal with the discrepancy between how the game was set up originally and how it turned out in the meantime. The Galaxy is obviously a relic from "back when". Their pathetic "reboot" showed their complete inability to deal with the challenge of keeping some kind of "balance" between game content and old and new ships. Also, keep in mind that no dev ever was allowed to say a single word on the whole issue.
DDIS (I think?) suggested a Mirror Galaxy (or was it you yreodred? ). I don't think Mirror ships are a solution to the problem. I personally could imagine a refurbished line-up entirely, like they did with the patrol escort.
I think it would be reasonable to first and foremost remove the current fleet galaxy from the game (purchased ships remain, of course). Then, swap the Gal-R and the Star Cruiser. Again, already owned ships stay the same until reclaiming. And finally create a new fleet gal, Fleet Exploration Cruiser Refit based on the Venture-type sporting a LTC sci and ens uni. This would present a more science-y version of the support cruiser. And the Fleet Dreadnaught Cruiser could get a LTC tac an ens uni in the process.
That would leave us with the Gal-R having the current Star Cruiser set-up and the fleet Gal have a more science heavy layout since the Venture-type refit IS meant to be a science heavy cruiser. The current star cruiser could occupy the engineering heavy cruiser position since, well I know there are fans of the ship and all, but it's a non-canon and non-payship. This would be an easy solution, in my opinion, that doesn't need to completely reimagining the game and change things around too drastically. I had plenty of other ideas, like most of us in this thread, but all of those are very fundamental changes.
Where do people get the idea that Starfleet explorers are not heavily armed ships? Seriously, every ship in Star Trek from the Constitution Class to the Sovereign Class are explorers (except for the 2 ships designed for fighting, and the very specific scientific study ships). These ships are designed to be heavily armed to go into the unknown and be able to face (almost) anything that they run into. It's after these guys have been through and verified that the place is safe that the less heavily armed science ships move in for more pointed scientific study.
Well said. The Galaxy is even meant to be pointman AND backup in one ship, since they can stay and perform/supervise further operations.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I never said Exploers were weak. They just weren't as strong as they needed to be for the time. It was a mindset thing. TMP era showed a balance between Science and combat. By early TNG the lkeaned more science then combat because of the peace between the major powers and what conflicts they had were small and minor. By First Contact though you see a changed in Mindset. Most of the new designs are more combat oriented. THe Galazy is a powerhouse but limited by her design mindset as shown by the death of most of the Early gals that they needed work and likely started the Sovreign production. and the ships is the flagship class because the E-E succeed the E-D as overall flagship. Does that mean they stopped building Galaxys no. heck they are still building Excels. both classes still have a long life ahead of them and complament eachother But Craptic has to get off there but and make the Glaaxy Retro more cannon and the easy and best option. ALL UNIVERSAL BO SLOTS
I never said Exploers were weak. They just weren't as strong as they needed to be for the time. It was a mindset thing. TMP era showed a balance between Science and combat. By early TNG the lkeaned more science then combat because of the peace between the major powers and what conflicts they had were small and minor. By First Contact though you see a changed in Mindset. Most of the new designs are more combat oriented. THe Galazy is a powerhouse but limited by her design mindset as shown by the death of most of the Early gals that they needed work and likely started the Sovreign production. and the ships is the flagship class because the E-E succeed the E-D as overall flagship. Does that mean they stopped building Galaxys no. heck they are still building Excels. both classes still have a long life ahead of them and complament eachother But Craptic has to get off there but and make the Glaaxy Retro more cannon and the easy and best option. ALL UNIVERSAL BO SLOTS
I do believe this is a misassumptions due to visuals being used. There is nothing to support the claim that one era or the other influenced Starfleet's mission profile in any way. The movies, traditionally, had more action than the shows until CGI came up and we saw more action. But just because we saw more shooting doesn't mean this or that ship was more of a fighter than the other.
What does indicate that any of the ships past FC is more tactically capable than any other ship before? Because TNG ships were round and post FC ships were pointy? The FC line-up merely hints at a overall modernization of the ship line-up somewhere in between. Miranda --> Steamrunner, Excelsior, Cheyenne, Constellation, possibly Nebula --> Akira --> Sovereign, New Orleans (possibly intrepid) --> Norway - all of those ship classes were already in use, yet seldom seen. The New Orleans in particular is interesting, it was a frigate. Which in Treknology means it's a ship with a primary mission profile of defense - but it had a round saucer
And I don't ant to argue that a Sovereign is stronger or weaker than a Galaxy or something. In my opinion both are equal in their own right. In terms of combat, the Galaxy is a Rook and the Sovereign is a Knight, so to speak. But there's nothing indicating the often quoted "time of peace" and why this would mean that any of the ships were undergunned or not capable of their full mission profile.
The all universal Galaxy is another matter, though. It doesn't work. Now, going back to STOs conception phase, Starfleet vessels SHOULD have gotten the benefit of universal BOFFs and Klingons should have gotten the specialized ships, but they blew that majorly.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I still don't think it's something personal. Sure, Geko prefers the Excelsior over all the others, but I don't think this is a reason to actively sabotage TNG ships. It's more the inability to deal with the discrepancy between how the game was set up originally and how it turned out in the meantime. The Galaxy is obviously a relic from "back when". Their pathetic "reboot" showed their complete inability to deal with the challenge of keeping some kind of "balance" between game content and old and new ships. Also, keep in mind that no dev ever was allowed to say a single word on the whole issue.
DDIS (I think?) suggested a Mirror Galaxy (or was it you yreodred? ). I don't think Mirror ships are a solution to the problem. I personally could imagine a refurbished line-up entirely, like they did with the patrol escort.
I think it would be reasonable to first and foremost remove the current fleet galaxy from the game (purchased ships remain, of course). Then, swap the Gal-R and the Star Cruiser. Again, already owned ships stay the same until reclaiming. And finally create a new fleet gal, Fleet Exploration Cruiser Refit based on the Venture-type sporting a LTC sci and ens uni. This would present a more science-y version of the support cruiser. And the Fleet Dreadnaught Cruiser could get a LTC tac an ens uni in the process.
That would leave us with the Gal-R having the current Star Cruiser set-up and the fleet Gal have a more science heavy layout since the Venture-type refit IS meant to be a science heavy cruiser. The current star cruiser could occupy the engineering heavy cruiser position since, well I know there are fans of the ship and all, but it's a non-canon and non-payship. This would be an easy solution, in my opinion, that doesn't need to completely reimagining the game and change things around too drastically. I had plenty of other ideas, like most of us in this thread, but all of those are very fundamental changes.
...
I think too that the sollution is to introduce a mirror ship.
First, because Cryptic can't be sure how many ppl really want a "better" GCS, introducing a Mirror ship could end this annoyance for good.
Second i think Cryptics devs don't really know what to do with the old Star Cruiser, heck they even stole its name!:mad:
Your suggestion sounds good, but i would go a different way.
At first release a Mirror Galaxy Class featuring the same BOFF and Console Layout as the Mirror Negh'Var.
Then change the Star Cruisers BOFF/Console layout in the same way.
Fleet Versions of the GCS-R would look like you have proposed.
Additionally i would give the Fleet Star Crusier the same BOFF/Console Layout as the Haakona Advanced Warbird.
To be honest, the STO Galaxy is, ironically, about right for what we saw on TNG.
I mean, STO Galaxy = Tank without Teeth. Well, the Enterprise-D HAD to be able to take a beating; just look at how many times an enemy ship shot at them - the Enterprise-D couldn't return fire because of either Epic Picard Speech or Riker using Emergency power to Dither.
Discussed 1001 times, Picard was a Diplomat then, the Federation didn't want (couldn afford) another war since the Cardassian (cold?) war(s).
Additionally the show was much more family oriented and showing space battles wasn't the point (then).
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
im hopeing the next lock box has a mirror galaxy and ktinga, with the opposite of the Cheyenne and negvar station setup of LTC sci and ENS tac. these should have a LTC tac and ENS sci. to most people, a mirror galaxy would be a tactical one, wile the normal is sci heavy
I do believe this is a misassumptions due to visuals being used. There is nothing to support the claim that one era or the other influenced Starfleet's mission profile in any way. The movies, traditionally, had more action than the shows until CGI came up and we saw more action. But just because we saw more shooting doesn't mean this or that ship was more of a fighter than the other.
What does indicate that any of the ships past FC is more tactically capable than any other ship before? Because TNG ships were round and post FC ships were pointy? The FC line-up merely hints at a overall modernization of the ship line-up somewhere in between. Miranda --> Steamrunner, Excelsior, Cheyenne, Constellation, possibly Nebula --> Akira --> Sovereign, New Orleans (possibly intrepid) --> Norway - all of those ship classes were already in use, yet seldom seen. The New Orleans in particular is interesting, it was a frigate. Which in Treknology means it's a ship with a primary mission profile of defense - but it had a round saucer
And I don't ant to argue that a Sovereign is stronger or weaker than a Galaxy or something. In my opinion both are equal in their own right. In terms of combat, the Galaxy is a Rook and the Sovereign is a Knight, so to speak. But there's nothing indicating the often quoted "time of peace" and why this would mean that any of the ships were undergunned or not capable of their full mission profile.
The all universal Galaxy is another matter, though. It doesn't work. Now, going back to STOs conception phase, Starfleet vessels SHOULD have gotten the benefit of universal BOFFs and Klingons should have gotten the specialized ships, but they blew that majorly.
And why can't it work? the KDF have a WHOLE LINE of universal Bo slots ships. I'm only asking for TWO count them TWo ships on the fed side to be the same.
im hopeing the next lock box has a mirror galaxy and ktinga, with the opposite of the Cheyenne and negvar station setup of LTC sci and ENS tac. these should have a LTC tac and ENS sci. to most people, a mirror galaxy would be a tactical one, wile the normal is sci heavy
I'd be all for a Mirror Galaxy. Just like in Dark Mirror, by Diane Duane.
Pretty sure someone said this and odds are I'm wrong.
The Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant are 3 sides of the same thing. They are meant to be "the" eng/sci/tac ships of Starfleet. I think any plans of "fixing" one should take the other two ships into mind. While Intrepid buffs could be nice buffing the Defiant could be risky.
*points to the crapton of "give the Defiant built in cloak" threads*
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2nd Hi again after long time with no post (but always keep an eye here) and after calm mi self (because if not ill sure get baned for all thing i want post the first time i see "LUXURY LINER") ... To be honest i get extremly disapointed after all bu****** the dev team say why is not posible to redo the galaxy-R and the G-X and release that "REBOOT" whe get another slap in the face.
But what is a startrek game without the most iconic , hero ship , or callit whatever yuo like ?
i tellyuo what is any other scifi game with some names and places like yuo see in the shows...
since this is other nail in the cofin for the galaxy family, and i dont think this will be the last, i give up mi hopes to see a decent galaxy in this game.
Only thing stopme from quit is i met a lot of nice ppl and i have a lot of fun and god times with this ppl a few of them become real life friends.
But don really know how long i will be here if mi friends and i find ani other game what like all of us then i will come to this forum (im sure this thread will never die ) i will say good bye and good luck to all of yuo.
This game has a nice potencial , a shame is wasted like this...
and is not so hard to please all players we tell them handred of times , made real the option of change BO layauot in the ship yard and all is over , but dev team was to busy with a new ESD ...
And dont ask for mi gear all is boudn to character
Yeah and how ridiculous they are gonna look taking out cubes in STFs ?
I mean, CBS says no to a T5 connie, Cryptic keeps the Galaxy class down as the worst ship in the game, but a Risan Yacht is TOTALLY FINE. :rolleyes:
But as I've said in an earlier thread, this is it for me personally. This is the moment for me.
At least it's the right design for jumpin the Carcharodon carcharias.
the only way you could mistake the sovereign for being as big or bigger then the galaxy is from a side profile shot, but of all the angles that's the most misleading.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8792/3axissizecompare.jpg
volume wise, the galaxy class is more then double the soverign's m³.
people weigh number of emitters and launchers as being much more important as they are. these things aren't cannon barrels, what maters most is how long they are, and how many emitters are linked in the main guns, and how high burst a launcher is capable of fireing.
the akira class has 3 phaser arrays, so it should have really poor firepower right? wrong, all it needs is 3 to cover basically every fireing arc. the sovereign needs so many individual arrays because the design gives it so many potential blind spots that need coverage, and with the angle of the saucer it cant line up more then one of its 3 main arrays on a single target at once, lest its the size of a cube or something.
arrays are built out of sometimes hundreds of emitters, each emitter is its own independent phaser bank with its own EPS conduit and its own prefire capacitor to hold a charge. the array configuration links emitters together, allowing for each emitter to pass its charge down the array to the point the computer chooses to fire from. that is the moving glow effect you see in the show before a beam is fired. that being the case, the more emitters linked together, the higher per shot firepower a ship can have. the galaxy, and nebula, is without peer in main array length, its longest being more then twice as long as the sovereign's longest. this is why you never really see the galaxy fire anywhere but its main array, fireing much less powerful shots from the smaller point defense arrays is pointless if the main array is in arc. how powerful a shot will be can be dialed in by how many emitters are involved in the moving glow effect too.
torpedo launchers come in all sorts of sizes, and burst capacity. from single shot before reload, to the common 3 to 4 burst before reload, the the enormousness potential of the galaxy's launchers to spit out 10+ in about a second each. the most we see each launcher on an intrepid fire is about 4 per launcher, most of the sovereigns launchers were seen in nemisis fireing bursts of 3, but the 2 main fore and aft photon launchers were doubled up next to each other. quantum never fired more then 3 at once in nemesis. most of the other launchers are small, and likely single fire.
Difference in Volume is easily explained by jettisoning all the space that was needed for all the civilian non-service members.
I won't argue that the Galaxy's got a hell of a haymaker in it's saucer array. You're making a mistake in thinking strength of hit is all that matters in a fight, though. Split arrays like the Sov has means more targets able to be hit. Considering the more recent threats to the Federation being fleets of smaller, more maneuverable ships, the capability to engage more targets at once can't be dismissed. As for torps? Besides having the more traditional fore and aft launcher, it has turreted launchers as well, meaning less need to angle about to torpedo a target.
the galaxy was designed during a time of elevated turmoil too. there were multiple tzenkethy wars, a war with the tholians were an entire space dock style starbase was lost, and decades of cardasian hot and cold wars that lasted till right before DS9 took place. depending on how its modular space is configured, it could be be sent on multi decade exploration missions with little or no crew fatigue, or serve as a full fledged battleship, the symbol of federation military power. the saucer being the size and shape that it is is what allows the main arrays to be so large, and have a healthy overlapping firing arc ventral and dorsal.
the sovereign is likely the exactly the same in that way, the enterprise E just seems set up in a more military leaning way, considering the times. it was also quite a bit more crew dense, having around 700 wile being less then half the size of the enterrpise D that had just over 1000 souls aboard wile it was flush with families. which ship has excess crew quarters?
you cant explain the moving glow effect on the array with out the 'forced coupling' process, specifically named for the combining of all the charges of the individual emitters in the array to a single shot. that's just how arrays work, and that means bigger is better.
Except bigger doesn't mean better. Bigger means hit harder. Bigger also means, compared to the same number of emmiters broken into four arrays instead of one, more limited number of targets able to be engaged at once.
I'm not trying to argue one being clearly better than the other. Just contesting the opinion that the Sov isn't a worthy successor for a flagship or combat vessel.
The Sovereign was never intended to be the Galaxys successor.
It wouldn't make any sense, since these two ships are radically different (in Starfleet means) in size and mission profile. In my opinion the Sovereign is rather a Excelsior successor than Galaxy.
So it is not the question if one ship is superior over another, because they do not share the same scope of duties.
On the other hand the size differences alone are too great to assume that the smaller one could seriously be just as versatile or powerful than the other. (Only assuming that Starfleet keeps their biggest ships up to date, of course)
In my understanding the Sovereign is a worthy sucessor of the aging Excelsior which has become somewhat indispensable for Starfleet. It's a tough workhorse, but not playing in the same league as the huge Galaxy Class. (which is in STO a rather small ship compared to all the other monstrosities Cryptic has introduced.)
But to assume that a 10 year younger and much smaller ship could replace the biggest Starfleet and most complex ship to date (in real Star Trek history, not STO) doesn't make any sense.
I think the Galaxy Class has a big image problem. In TNG it was extremely rare to see it in combat and it was even rarer to see it fighting at full capacity. because Picard was such a fun sponge, lol.
If the big -D had survived ST:7, i am sure no one would ever second-guess its combat capabilities if she would have been seen in ST8 - 10.
Personally i think Starfleet didn't want to give Picard another expensive Galaxy Class after the events at Veridian III. It's a wonder picard or especially riker (or the whole bridge crew) didn't get court martialed and at least demoted.
You're wholly ignoring a major factor in military design. Bigger/more damaging doesn't always mean better. Being the biggest, most damaging brick in the quadrant means nothing, if every other power is fielding more maneuverable, mixed forces.
On the other hand there is NO proof that the Ent-E Sovereign Class was the federation flagship at any time. And btw, even a Intrepid could become the Federation flagship that title doesn't say anything about a ships combat power.
We have seen many Galaxy Classes at the DW, and not a single one of them where destroyed. And their existence proofs that Starfleet kept on building them, even with the Sovereign in service at the same time.
I'd say BOTH ships have their purpose in Star Trek but they are not rivals, they rather complement one another. The Sovereign Class as the robust workhorse and the Galaxy as more versatile more complex explorer type.
In STO terms the Sovereign would be more like a fast Cruiser with a ensign or lt universal, the Galaxy slower but more versatile ship with at least a Lt. Cmdr Boff station.
Regarding the GCS in STO, what about releasing a Mirror GCS with the next Lockbox with the same BOFF/Console Layout as the Mirror Universe Negh'Var?
This again?
What do you think "Exploring uncharted areas of space" means? The Galaxy Class was built in limited number originally to perform the task of venturing into unknown deep space *alone* for several *years* without any external *support*. The civilians on board of the ship were not taking holiday trips. They were the families of long-term assigned officers whose lives basically took place on the ships from that moment onward. When you venture into deep space in the Trekverse, every second encounter that is not a semi-omnipotent entity of hyper evolved beings that end the quadrant with a cough is composed of some kind of hazard, hostile force or creature that will horribly murder your face. These two facts combine let the assumption that the ship would lack defensive capability appear foolish.
The sovereign on the other hand was not designed with combat in mind. This is a misassumption made because A) All the TNG movies were action based flicks with lots of shooting and
In times of war all those vessels that are primarily designed for independent operations form battle groups and fleets and they were always just as capable or even superior to any kind of warship the enemy fielded.
There is no combat first, exploration second. The fleet is kept at the best possible level of tech, weapons, shields, engines, crew etc. via refits all the time.
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you seem to be applying limitations to the main arrays that they don't have. you can see it in action here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds&playnext=1&list=PLF37F38EA72A03613
arrays are flexible, they can fire multiple shots, the potential energy available in all the emitters just gets split. they also have no trouble dealing with small swarming ships especially, big ships with narrow arc cannons on the other hand do. arrays have a fireing arc of everything they have line of sight with, there aren't actually any downsides relating to size on large federations ships.
during the actual dominion war, the galaxy class stomped a mud hole, none were seen destroyed during the war, and in operation return they were seen flanking the dominion fleet after they broke through, before the defiant had. the odyssey faced completely unknown dominion ships, and thanks to the changelings already in the alpha quadrant spying they knew everything they needed to circumvent federation shields and make their own impervious to phaser fire. still, the odyssey hull tanked those bug ships for around 10 minutes before retreating under its own power, suffering only superficial damage. it took a suicide run directly to main engendering to bring it down, it was not overpowered at all. later in the war, odo in a runabout defeated a bug ship 1 on 1, wile pre war 2 runabouts and a galaxy couldn't harm 2 bug ships. by the time the war broke out, all the issues in that odyssey battle were clearly addressed.
im glad im not to he only one that has to spell this out anymore
And yet there will be surely someone coming up with this matter again, lol.
The thread is running circles. We had this very same topic a dozen times already and we will have someone bring it up again in, I'd guess, 2 pages once again.
Though who is to blame? Nobody will read anything but the current page and those of us who had the same discussion eight, nine or twelve times already will tire. I'm actually just waiting for polaronbeam to show up again to tell us we should call CBS or something. I never got what he actually wanted XD
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Please Cryptic, Release a True to Cannon Galaxy class 3 pack. It will not hurt your game. It may actually save it. After season 9. We need something bad to bring us back into the STO euphoria. STO at best right now is a Love/Hate relationship. Almost your entire player base wants this and ALL your Trekies want this. So what is the problem. It would relieve some of the tension if you would at least release a statement on why this hasn't happened. Somethings eventually got to give.
"Luckily" it's not only the galaxy. The cruise liner puts most Starfleet cruisers to shame.
It's a free fleet-grade joke ship that's better than most ships in it's class you need to pay for. Canon aside, shouldn't someone ask themselves "wait - why are the c-store ships so inferior to the stuff we give away free?"
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I could imagine that Cryptic is going to release a bunch of new ships and rework existing ones in the near future. If not, then the release of the risean Cruiser would be totally stupid. Why should anyone buy a old C-Store ship anymore if there's a better ship for free?
All this doesn't make sense. Especially since they released their Galaxy 3Pack not long ago, without changing the GCS-R in any way. (which was the whole point of a 3 pack IMO)
In the worst case they will rework some older ships except the GCS, because let me quote a future dev answer:
"...we already released a 3 Pack Galaxy bundle lately, reworking those ships again would disappoint people who bought the 3 pack.":mad::mad::mad:
No matter how i turn it, i can't avoid the conclusion that someone or several ppl at Cryptic just hate the Galaxy, TNG or US for some weird reason.
Man, suddenly i remember why i needed a break from STO, lol.
I still don't think it's something personal. Sure, Geko prefers the Excelsior over all the others, but I don't think this is a reason to actively sabotage TNG ships. It's more the inability to deal with the discrepancy between how the game was set up originally and how it turned out in the meantime. The Galaxy is obviously a relic from "back when". Their pathetic "reboot" showed their complete inability to deal with the challenge of keeping some kind of "balance" between game content and old and new ships. Also, keep in mind that no dev ever was allowed to say a single word on the whole issue.
DDIS (I think?) suggested a Mirror Galaxy (or was it you yreodred?
I think it would be reasonable to first and foremost remove the current fleet galaxy from the game (purchased ships remain, of course). Then, swap the Gal-R and the Star Cruiser. Again, already owned ships stay the same until reclaiming. And finally create a new fleet gal, Fleet Exploration Cruiser Refit based on the Venture-type sporting a LTC sci and ens uni. This would present a more science-y version of the support cruiser. And the Fleet Dreadnaught Cruiser could get a LTC tac an ens uni in the process.
That would leave us with the Gal-R having the current Star Cruiser set-up and the fleet Gal have a more science heavy layout since the Venture-type refit IS meant to be a science heavy cruiser. The current star cruiser could occupy the engineering heavy cruiser position since, well I know there are fans of the ship and all, but it's a non-canon and non-payship. This would be an easy solution, in my opinion, that doesn't need to completely reimagining the game and change things around too drastically. I had plenty of other ideas, like most of us in this thread, but all of those are very fundamental changes.
Well said. The Galaxy is even meant to be pointman AND backup in one ship, since they can stay and perform/supervise further operations.
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I do believe this is a misassumptions due to visuals being used. There is nothing to support the claim that one era or the other influenced Starfleet's mission profile in any way. The movies, traditionally, had more action than the shows until CGI came up and we saw more action. But just because we saw more shooting doesn't mean this or that ship was more of a fighter than the other.
What does indicate that any of the ships past FC is more tactically capable than any other ship before? Because TNG ships were round and post FC ships were pointy? The FC line-up merely hints at a overall modernization of the ship line-up somewhere in between. Miranda --> Steamrunner, Excelsior, Cheyenne, Constellation, possibly Nebula --> Akira --> Sovereign, New Orleans (possibly intrepid) --> Norway - all of those ship classes were already in use, yet seldom seen. The New Orleans in particular is interesting, it was a frigate. Which in Treknology means it's a ship with a primary mission profile of defense - but it had a round saucer
And I don't ant to argue that a Sovereign is stronger or weaker than a Galaxy or something. In my opinion both are equal in their own right. In terms of combat, the Galaxy is a Rook and the Sovereign is a Knight, so to speak. But there's nothing indicating the often quoted "time of peace" and why this would mean that any of the ships were undergunned or not capable of their full mission profile.
The all universal Galaxy is another matter, though. It doesn't work. Now, going back to STOs conception phase, Starfleet vessels SHOULD have gotten the benefit of universal BOFFs and Klingons should have gotten the specialized ships, but they blew that majorly.
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First, because Cryptic can't be sure how many ppl really want a "better" GCS, introducing a Mirror ship could end this annoyance for good.
Second i think Cryptics devs don't really know what to do with the old Star Cruiser, heck they even stole its name!:mad:
Your suggestion sounds good, but i would go a different way.
At first release a Mirror Galaxy Class featuring the same BOFF and Console Layout as the Mirror Negh'Var.
Then change the Star Cruisers BOFF/Console layout in the same way.
Fleet Versions of the GCS-R would look like you have proposed.
Additionally i would give the Fleet Star Crusier the same BOFF/Console Layout as the Haakona Advanced Warbird.
Discussed 1001 times, Picard was a Diplomat then, the Federation didn't want (couldn afford) another war since the Cardassian (cold?) war(s).
Additionally the show was much more family oriented and showing space battles wasn't the point (then).
Cmdr Eg
Lt Cmdr Tac
Lt Eng
Lt Sci
Ensign Sci
3/3/3
≡/\≡
And why can't it work? the KDF have a WHOLE LINE of universal Bo slots ships. I'm only asking for TWO count them TWo ships on the fed side to be the same.
I'd be all for a Mirror Galaxy. Just like in Dark Mirror, by Diane Duane.
The Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant are 3 sides of the same thing. They are meant to be "the" eng/sci/tac ships of Starfleet. I think any plans of "fixing" one should take the other two ships into mind. While Intrepid buffs could be nice buffing the Defiant could be risky.
*points to the crapton of "give the Defiant built in cloak" threads*
Note, I'm a Voyager fan so take that as you will.