I think the Intrepid is a fine ship and with the right setup can out damage the Galaxy outright with GWs , TBRs, FAW, Energy Siphon, FBP, Photonic officer, etc...
And with its Armor console has a get out of jail free card up its sleeve.
You would be surprised, then.
The extra weapon slots, DEM, EPTW, A2B and EWP can outdamage what an intrepid can put out. Plus, the Gal is many times more resilient.
What it comes down to, quite simply, is cruiser > sci ship, so primal cruiser > primal sci ship.
I do concede, the margin is small, and both ships turn up near the bottom. People over value science and undervalue engineering, I think because science is flashy where engineering is consistent.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Perhaps the cookie cutter sci builds yes but I'm talking about all out dps build that has almost no Boff tanking abilities. Just relying on damage + 3 piece borg set to kill before being killed.
Granted overall majority won't take that approach to ship building so in most part you are right.
But my point is that the potential if built right is higher on the Intrepid than the Galaxy.
I do more DPS then any sci I have ever seen. I use builds that exemplify exactly what you are describing.
The Intrepid is not good.
The only thing that keeps it from having a thread this long is people go "Grav wellllssssss!" and don't notice how under performing the ship is.
Quite simply put, everything that can be said about the Gal-R can be said for the Intrepid.
Where are you going to go for DPS past GW, TBR, and PSW?
Tyken's shares cooldown with Gravwell, and is the inferior choice for damage
TBR and Tractor Beam, same thing.
Where is the DPS? 3 abilities, with PSW being very weak "icing" on a strong AE cake.
Not a single point of DPS on the rest of them, unless you count the shield drains... We could have a whole other thread on those....
So you can build a ship that has 2 copies of each and some heals, but then you come to your tac officer. You are pretty well forced into 2 faw instead of apb to keep up, because photonic officer isn't going to give you nearly as much uptime as a2b will, and if you use a2b you can't use ep2w, because you can't fit it and you aren't going very far with to ep2s (a dead sci does 0 dps)
So, on a ship with 6 weapon slots, you are reduced to no apb, and only 3 sci skills to pull up the DPS, or a2b to give many redundant sci slots and then lose one of the only skills that was keeping you even in the running (ep2w)
It doesn't happen. Even a poorly played Gal-R can out damage an Intrepid. That said, the Intrepid is likely to bring more to the group then a poorly played Gal-R.
A well built tac Gal-R can break 20k. I watched them do it with my own eyes. I personally have done 15k on my sci, without re-skilling to make it even better, and that was while ago I have even better gear now. I dare you to produce a 20k tac Intrepid.
I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just trying to share the situation, from somebody who is qualified, and has made the attempt. Trust me. I was surprised myself how poorly my Intrepid handled.
Edit: An Intrepid can't even double cover all of their sci DPS abilities, because you can't fit 2 copies of grav well and 2 copies of PSW, you are forced into a cooldown reduction scheme, which photonic officer is many times less effective then A2B and the Intrepid doesn't have eng slots to compete.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Edit: I realize that sounded combative and I really did not mean it to be. If you can do it, please do. I would like to see it. I could only learn from it.
I'm fairly confident that you will be unable.
I'm not forgetting photonic officer. I clearly stated that it underperforms. Again, I invite you to make the attempt.
Also, somewhat unrelated, I would tend to prefer ep2s over tt and apb over ep2w.... leaving me with faw apb/ep2s dem... in your example. Mileage may vary, I do have points in my attack patterns, and I find tac team to be frivolous in most cases PvE.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
doing DPS in a sci ship is missing the point of a sci ship. any actual damage it deals is gravy, its point of existing is putting enemy ships in a position were true DPS ships damage them more effectively. on a team, this is infinitely more helpful then any galaxy R beam DPS, that cant even break even with built in shield regeneration
A well built tac Gal-R can break 20k. I watched them do it with my own eyes. I personally have done 15k on my sci, without re-skilling to make it even better, and that was while ago I have even better gear now. I dare you to produce a 20k tac Intrepid.
I agree, a well played sci/tac toon on the right build on the right group can achieve Gal R on those dps levels.
doing DPS in a sci ship is missing the point of a sci ship. any actual damage it deals is gravy, its point of existing is putting enemy ships in a position were true DPS ships damage them more effectively. on a team, this is infinitely more helpful then any galaxy R beam DPS, that cant even break even with built in shield regeneration
This is true on Galaxy R. Galaxy R definitely doesnt help a well organized, well played group compared to Sci ships. Galaxy R does excel on PuGs though wherein organization is in a minimum and aggro is required.
We have to accept the Galaxy R has really small tac and sci options, build around what it has and play the ship around where it excels at rather than force Gal R do what other ships excel at.
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
I belive it has been explained more than a hundred times that the Galaxy was more than a toothless tank.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
Its great you like it as is. Power to you for that one. Most the changes proposed wouldn't keep you from using it the same way you do now but give others options to use it a different way.
It was considered a warship and mistaken as one in a few episodes and think the Klingons even said it was a class of warship. Federation may not name them warships but they built them to be capable of fighting if it came to that. As far as a tank if your looking at the shows the Galaxy class could give as good as it took. So saying it was a tank isn't correct. These are not simply minded computer programs, and no one gonna shoot at a galaxy class ship that can take a pounding instead of the smaller easier targets first. Only reason to take down the strongest or toughest opponent is for a strategic advantage like if its in command giving out orders to other ships.
Mirror universe it was a warship in the episode with Enterprise C (Yesterdays Enterprise maybe). Either way the Galaxy was made to be Versatile actually having to ability to trade out its parts in the saucer section so it could do whatever job it was assigned to do.
Most here just want it to be a capable ship that stands in line with most other cruisers. Personally I'd love a non third nacelle Galaxy that can actually put out nice DPS hence why I suggested adding variants to the Fleet ship yard. My main hope for this game is that one day we'll be able to just pick a frame of the ship we want to use and build it the way we want it from the ground up. Having the option to pick out a hull add to it what power bonuses we get the bo slots and console arrangement we want from any other ship of the same class we own. If they added that I'd probably own a fleet worth of Galaxy's and a few Intrepid's (personally my favorite ship in trek universe though wish it could be made a light cruiser instead of a science ship).
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
First of all, the Galaxy Class was the Starfleet ship with the most offensive potenital in the fleet. The reason they didn't use it as such has to do more with the Federation's ideals and the role the Enterprise-D had and not with the ship's potential. The fact that it blew holes bigger than it's saucer in a Borg cube should be proof enough of the power the two biggest phaser arrays in the Quadrant had.
You're right, in this game it's a tank. I have mine set up to be an uber tank first and foremost because I had the idea of being indestructible when I first started STO and I love the Galaxy. But it's the absolute worst tank in the lineup. I can tank better in about any cruiser in the Starfleet lineup.
This thread has been about many things related, including fixing engineering skills, game mechanics and bringing back the relevance of the tank in STO (which currently is pretty insignificant) as well as providing the Galaxy Class with a role in the game, so one of the most iconic ship is no longer scraping at the bottom of the barrel in STO.
You don't need to send us PvPers, a huge portion of the people posting here are dedicated PvPers. Heck, ddis is one of the most experienced PvPers around here and I learned much about building my ships from his threads.
The way I see it, any elementary change to any ship - not only the Galaxy should be optional. So they take the complaints into consideration, they make enhancements and then give people the option to either go with the new setup or keep the old. Heck, they could do it like they did with the Patrol Escort - just make a new "better" version and let the ones that want it buy, while making no changes to the old one. I know I wouldn't spare Zen for a new improved Galaxy Class, but I'd keep my old one cause it's heavily invested in a build that fits her as it is.
Taking away from people what they purchased is always a poor form and I think nothing in this thread indicated that anyone wants an ultimatum where everyone would have to change the ship.
The way I see it, any elementary change to any ship - not only the Galaxy should be optional. So they take the complaints into consideration, they make enhancements and then give people the option to either go with the new setup or keep the old. Heck, they could do it like they did with the Patrol Escort - just make a new "better" version and let the ones that want it buy, while making no changes to the old one. I know I wouldn't spare Zen for a new improved Galaxy Class, but I'd keep my old one cause it's heavily invested in a build that fits her as it is.
Taking away from people what they purchased is always a poor form and I think nothing in this thread indicated that anyone wants an ultimatum where everyone would have to change the ship.
I like that idea!
I'm sure i would buy a good version of a Galaxy Class.
Heck i would be alreasdy satisfied if there would be a option to remove the thrid nacelle (ad the other goofy stuff) from the Galaxy X and make it look like a G- R.
Hey, nice to see you back man, it has been a while.
It's nice to be back !:)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
dev smerf acount?
it tanks for TRIBBLE. its hamstrung be 3 ENS level eng skills, WILE also having 3 LTC+ eng skills. if a ship has 3 LTC+ eng skills, and one of them cant be ET3 or an EPtX3, your left with a lack of any useful skill at ether the ENS level or LTC level. no mater if your tank/healing, running an AtB DPS build, anything. no good tank only has a LT sci ether.
you wont find a single pro pvper who doesn't think the galaxy R is the worst ship in the game, and basically unusable in pvp.
To canon Trek about nemesis. Galaxy was the second most powerful ship in the fleet with only the soveriegn beating it. She could hold a conference, study a nebula, Do various science experiments, AND battle and alien warship ALL at the same time. Thus she is the most versitile ship in the fleet. THUS IN STO the Galaxy R should be ALL universal BO slot. PROBLEM SOLVED.
it tanks for TRIBBLE. its hamstrung be 3 ENS level eng skills, WILE also having 3 LTC+ eng skills. if a ship has 3 LTC+ eng skills, and one of them cant be ET3 or an EPtX3, your left with a lack of any useful skill at ether the ENS level or LTC level. no mater if your tank/healing, running an AtB DPS build, anything. no good tank only has a LT sci ether.
you wont find a single pro pvper who doesn't think the galaxy R is the worst ship in the game, and basically unusable in pvp.
I may agree with you of Galaxy R on how it lacks helping preset well built groups compared to its SCI ship counterparts.
Sorry but I have to disagree with you with regards to your opinion of Gal R lack of tanking.
It is one the best tankers out there on the right build on there right player. Do not mix up its weakness in preset groups as the tanking capability of Galaxy R. Last time I checked PuGs are majority of the player base while presets, min/max, dps players like us are small minorities.
The difference between a Sci build healer and Eng tank/healer is HoT or burst heals. Different playstyles, different uses. On a HoT timing of heals is very different from burst heals. Not only that, the Burst heals of a Eng ability gives more resistance than any equal Sci ability. So, the Eng abilities are optimal if you are healing yourself with lots of buffer and resistance to your buld and ship which min/max, dps/sci players almost never do unless they want to sacrifice their dps.
On pvp presets, yes it is the one of worst ship out there. On PuG pvp, you cannot say it is the worst ship out there due lack of organization of pvp PuGs and insane amount of buffer tank, resistance along with 10-15k dps that Fleet Gal R can bring.
People who whine about Galaxy R should put this in their thick heads: It is really weak on preset groups regardless if it is PvE or PvP. It is an unflexible ship with regards to boff so playstyle is limited. But, saying it tanks TRIBBLE is just complete utter lie or too naive to even know what the Galaxy R is capable of.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
it is a poor tank. you can tank better in an ambassador or free star cruiser. the star cruiser you can actually run ET3 with out it making the ensign slot useless and the ambassador can get LTC sci for HE3 or TSS3
but the main thing is the free star cruiser is a better tank then the c-store and fleet galaxy
the galaxy is a TANK
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
Never a warship ?.............STO isnt canon my friend.. we just have to suffer with it
It was a battleship at the drop of a hat..watch chain of command...watch tng second borg encounter..........and the first
If you like a last place build ...Great
It is the last place ship in the Fed lineup it should be 3rd
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
STO is canon at least to itself. And isn't this topic about something in STO...?
No STO has nothing to do with canon.....It isnt Canon .......never will be canon
The same as JJ verse will never be considered canon its jj verse
STO is all to itself
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
No STO has nothing to do with canon.....It isnt Canon .......never will be canon
The same as JJ verse will never be considered canon its jj verse
STO is all to itself
You're misunderstanding me. Every fiction is "canon" at least to itself. STO is canon to itself... but it isn't canon to the TV shows, movies, etc. And the JJverse is indeed officially canon no matter how much you insist on otherwise, if you wanna go there. But that's an entirely different topic altogether.
Your last line there is basically the same thing I meant but reworded. You're just strawmanning.
STO/JJ verse are both soft canon.................not canon
They would be nothing either one without the Star Trek lable neither are good enough to stand on there own
Neither one obeys established Canon of the label they use...So they disqualify themselves from ever claiming that title forever
soft canon is the only title either can ever claim
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
STO/JJ verse are both soft canon.................not canon
They would be nothing either one without the Star Trek lable neither are good enough to stand on there own
Neither one obeys established Canon of the label they use...So they disqualify themselves from ever claiming that title forever
soft canon is the only title either can ever claim
I'm sorry, but that's not right. JJ Trek is indeed canon since it appeared on-screen. It is an alternate reality, however, like things that happened in the anti-time futures, but it is canon since it was a movie release. Canon has nothing to do with the reception of a thing, the only thing defining canon is "was it on a movie or tv screen?".
STO is of course soft-canon, just like EVERYTHING licensed and not taking place on a movie or tv screen which means STO only affects STO, just like a novel only affects this novel or others in it's lineage, nothing else.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm sorry, but that's not right. JJ Trek is indeed canon since it appeared on-screen. It is an alternate reality, however, like things that happened in the anti-time futures, but it is canon since it was a movie release. Canon has nothing to do with the reception of a thing, the only thing defining canon is "was it on a movie or tv screen?".
STO is of course soft-canon, just like EVERYTHING licensed and not taking place on a movie or tv screen which means STO only affects STO, just like a novel only affects this novel or others in it's lineage, nothing else.
^ this. Before he died, Roddenberry said that every TV series and movie 'counts'. You may apply fan dis-continuity to the JJverse which is perfectly reasonable outside of discussions of canon, but officially, the JJverse is as much an alternate timeline to the Prime universe as the Mirror universe.
STO is the closest thing we have as a continuation of the Prime Universe, so yeah, it could be counted as "soft canon" I suppose. But if discussing anything exclusive to STO, you're talking about STO's internal canon(assuming one means 'continuity' when they say 'canon'), which may not be the 'main' continuity, but it counts within STO lore.
Why, pray tell, are we having an extended conversation/argument about "canon" in a thread about the Galaxy?
Please take the canonicity discussions to another thread and keep this one on topic, please.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Why, pray tell, are we having an extended conversation/argument about "canon" in a thread about the Galaxy?
Please take the canonicity discussions to another thread and keep this one on topic, please.
canon is often sited as justification for the galaxy not being terrible, seeing as ship performance is loosely based on their canon counterpart. this part of it is a bit off topic though
the JJvers is its own thing, aside from being created by people from the prime, its got nothing else to do with prime trek. STO is one of the many things that picks up were the prime canon left off, many games and book series have done this.
I may agree with you of Galaxy R on how it lacks helping preset well built groups compared to its SCI ship counterparts.
Sorry but I have to disagree with you with regards to your opinion of Gal R lack of tanking.
It is one the best tankers out there on the right build on there right player. Do not mix up its weakness in preset groups as the tanking capability of Galaxy R. Last time I checked PuGs are majority of the player base while presets, min/max, dps players like us are small minorities.
The difference between a Sci build healer and Eng tank/healer is HoT or burst heals. Different playstyles, different uses. On a HoT timing of heals is very different from burst heals. Not only that, the Burst heals of a Eng ability gives more resistance than any equal Sci ability. So, the Eng abilities are optimal if you are healing yourself with lots of buffer and resistance to your buld and ship which min/max, dps/sci players almost never do unless they want to sacrifice their dps.
On pvp presets, yes it is the one of worst ship out there. On PuG pvp, you cannot say it is the worst ship out there due lack of organization of pvp PuGs and insane amount of buffer tank, resistance along with 10-15k dps that Fleet Gal R can bring.
People who whine about Galaxy R should put this in their thick heads: It is really weak on preset groups regardless if it is PvE or PvP. It is an unflexible ship with regards to boff so playstyle is limited. But, saying it tanks TRIBBLE is just complete utter lie or too naive to even know what the Galaxy R is capable of.
the galaxy all but cant run the main burst heal ET3 when its got 3 ENS eng, not without skipping damage control doffs or something, that already puts its efficiency down big time. compared to other ships, its got the same number of eng skill, wile they have more tac or sci skills. with all that eng skill, whats it good for? running 2 copies of AtS? 2 or RSP? you save yourself 5 seconds with 2AtS, and if all you do is rely on RSP as your main tank abilty then you are super vulnerable to subnuke. with suck limited sci, you cant even run all 3 sci heals. at most its about as tanky as a tac cruiser with an AtB build, with none of the offense.
thers a good reason people choose healers and tank ships with about as much sci as eng, its because they are BETER. the galaxy R isnt just a different way to tank, it a much worse way to tank. you need HOTS keeping you alive between RSP, and spike heals to counter alphas, they can have all that without low level and high level skills tripping over each other like they do on the galaxy. there is no good build you can make with it because of that period.
Comments
You would be surprised, then.
The extra weapon slots, DEM, EPTW, A2B and EWP can outdamage what an intrepid can put out. Plus, the Gal is many times more resilient.
What it comes down to, quite simply, is cruiser > sci ship, so primal cruiser > primal sci ship.
I do concede, the margin is small, and both ships turn up near the bottom. People over value science and undervalue engineering, I think because science is flashy where engineering is consistent.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I do more DPS then any sci I have ever seen. I use builds that exemplify exactly what you are describing.
The Intrepid is not good.
The only thing that keeps it from having a thread this long is people go "Grav wellllssssss!" and don't notice how under performing the ship is.
Quite simply put, everything that can be said about the Gal-R can be said for the Intrepid.
Where are you going to go for DPS past GW, TBR, and PSW?
Tyken's shares cooldown with Gravwell, and is the inferior choice for damage
TBR and Tractor Beam, same thing.
Where is the DPS? 3 abilities, with PSW being very weak "icing" on a strong AE cake.
Not a single point of DPS on the rest of them, unless you count the shield drains... We could have a whole other thread on those....
So you can build a ship that has 2 copies of each and some heals, but then you come to your tac officer. You are pretty well forced into 2 faw instead of apb to keep up, because photonic officer isn't going to give you nearly as much uptime as a2b will, and if you use a2b you can't use ep2w, because you can't fit it and you aren't going very far with to ep2s (a dead sci does 0 dps)
So, on a ship with 6 weapon slots, you are reduced to no apb, and only 3 sci skills to pull up the DPS, or a2b to give many redundant sci slots and then lose one of the only skills that was keeping you even in the running (ep2w)
It doesn't happen. Even a poorly played Gal-R can out damage an Intrepid. That said, the Intrepid is likely to bring more to the group then a poorly played Gal-R.
A well built tac Gal-R can break 20k. I watched them do it with my own eyes. I personally have done 15k on my sci, without re-skilling to make it even better, and that was while ago I have even better gear now. I dare you to produce a 20k tac Intrepid.
I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just trying to share the situation, from somebody who is qualified, and has made the attempt. Trust me. I was surprised myself how poorly my Intrepid handled.
Edit: An Intrepid can't even double cover all of their sci DPS abilities, because you can't fit 2 copies of grav well and 2 copies of PSW, you are forced into a cooldown reduction scheme, which photonic officer is many times less effective then A2B and the Intrepid doesn't have eng slots to compete.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I've done it.
I know.
Edit: I realize that sounded combative and I really did not mean it to be. If you can do it, please do. I would like to see it. I could only learn from it.
I'm fairly confident that you will be unable.
I'm not forgetting photonic officer. I clearly stated that it underperforms. Again, I invite you to make the attempt.
Also, somewhat unrelated, I would tend to prefer ep2s over tt and apb over ep2w.... leaving me with faw apb/ep2s dem... in your example. Mileage may vary, I do have points in my attack patterns, and I find tac team to be frivolous in most cases PvE.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Done.
I agree, a well played sci/tac toon on the right build on the right group can achieve Gal R on those dps levels.
This is true on Galaxy R. Galaxy R definitely doesnt help a well organized, well played group compared to Sci ships. Galaxy R does excel on PuGs though wherein organization is in a minimum and aggro is required.
We have to accept the Galaxy R has really small tac and sci options, build around what it has and play the ship around where it excels at rather than force Gal R do what other ships excel at.
i love it just the way it is.
love the set bonus they given it (though use it to start with, but now gone back to other consoles)
if all this crying ever makes the dev's change how the galaxy works right now
i am going to find all you cry baby's and send 1000s of pro PVP players to hunt you down for messing up my tank build on a galaxy
stop crying about it, the galaxy was never a warship
if the feds ever needed a war ship to do something, they sent a group of 20 ships in with 1 galaxy in the middle to you know TANK
Lol, i love posts like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
I belive it has been explained more than a hundred times that the Galaxy was more than a toothless tank.
Its great you like it as is. Power to you for that one. Most the changes proposed wouldn't keep you from using it the same way you do now but give others options to use it a different way.
It was considered a warship and mistaken as one in a few episodes and think the Klingons even said it was a class of warship. Federation may not name them warships but they built them to be capable of fighting if it came to that. As far as a tank if your looking at the shows the Galaxy class could give as good as it took. So saying it was a tank isn't correct. These are not simply minded computer programs, and no one gonna shoot at a galaxy class ship that can take a pounding instead of the smaller easier targets first. Only reason to take down the strongest or toughest opponent is for a strategic advantage like if its in command giving out orders to other ships.
Mirror universe it was a warship in the episode with Enterprise C (Yesterdays Enterprise maybe). Either way the Galaxy was made to be Versatile actually having to ability to trade out its parts in the saucer section so it could do whatever job it was assigned to do.
Most here just want it to be a capable ship that stands in line with most other cruisers. Personally I'd love a non third nacelle Galaxy that can actually put out nice DPS hence why I suggested adding variants to the Fleet ship yard. My main hope for this game is that one day we'll be able to just pick a frame of the ship we want to use and build it the way we want it from the ground up. Having the option to pick out a hull add to it what power bonuses we get the bo slots and console arrangement we want from any other ship of the same class we own. If they added that I'd probably own a fleet worth of Galaxy's and a few Intrepid's (personally my favorite ship in trek universe though wish it could be made a light cruiser instead of a science ship).
First of all, the Galaxy Class was the Starfleet ship with the most offensive potenital in the fleet. The reason they didn't use it as such has to do more with the Federation's ideals and the role the Enterprise-D had and not with the ship's potential. The fact that it blew holes bigger than it's saucer in a Borg cube should be proof enough of the power the two biggest phaser arrays in the Quadrant had.
You're right, in this game it's a tank. I have mine set up to be an uber tank first and foremost because I had the idea of being indestructible when I first started STO and I love the Galaxy. But it's the absolute worst tank in the lineup. I can tank better in about any cruiser in the Starfleet lineup.
This thread has been about many things related, including fixing engineering skills, game mechanics and bringing back the relevance of the tank in STO (which currently is pretty insignificant) as well as providing the Galaxy Class with a role in the game, so one of the most iconic ship is no longer scraping at the bottom of the barrel in STO.
You don't need to send us PvPers, a huge portion of the people posting here are dedicated PvPers. Heck, ddis is one of the most experienced PvPers around here and I learned much about building my ships from his threads.
The way I see it, any elementary change to any ship - not only the Galaxy should be optional. So they take the complaints into consideration, they make enhancements and then give people the option to either go with the new setup or keep the old. Heck, they could do it like they did with the Patrol Escort - just make a new "better" version and let the ones that want it buy, while making no changes to the old one. I know I wouldn't spare Zen for a new improved Galaxy Class, but I'd keep my old one cause it's heavily invested in a build that fits her as it is.
Taking away from people what they purchased is always a poor form and I think nothing in this thread indicated that anyone wants an ultimatum where everyone would have to change the ship.
Hey, nice to see you back man, it has been a while.
I'm sure i would buy a good version of a Galaxy Class.
Heck i would be alreasdy satisfied if there would be a option to remove the thrid nacelle (ad the other goofy stuff) from the Galaxy X and make it look like a G- R.
It's nice to be back !:)
dev smerf acount?
it tanks for TRIBBLE. its hamstrung be 3 ENS level eng skills, WILE also having 3 LTC+ eng skills. if a ship has 3 LTC+ eng skills, and one of them cant be ET3 or an EPtX3, your left with a lack of any useful skill at ether the ENS level or LTC level. no mater if your tank/healing, running an AtB DPS build, anything. no good tank only has a LT sci ether.
you wont find a single pro pvper who doesn't think the galaxy R is the worst ship in the game, and basically unusable in pvp.
I may agree with you of Galaxy R on how it lacks helping preset well built groups compared to its SCI ship counterparts.
Sorry but I have to disagree with you with regards to your opinion of Gal R lack of tanking.
It is one the best tankers out there on the right build on there right player. Do not mix up its weakness in preset groups as the tanking capability of Galaxy R. Last time I checked PuGs are majority of the player base while presets, min/max, dps players like us are small minorities.
The difference between a Sci build healer and Eng tank/healer is HoT or burst heals. Different playstyles, different uses. On a HoT timing of heals is very different from burst heals. Not only that, the Burst heals of a Eng ability gives more resistance than any equal Sci ability. So, the Eng abilities are optimal if you are healing yourself with lots of buffer and resistance to your buld and ship which min/max, dps/sci players almost never do unless they want to sacrifice their dps.
On pvp presets, yes it is the one of worst ship out there. On PuG pvp, you cannot say it is the worst ship out there due lack of organization of pvp PuGs and insane amount of buffer tank, resistance along with 10-15k dps that Fleet Gal R can bring.
People who whine about Galaxy R should put this in their thick heads: It is really weak on preset groups regardless if it is PvE or PvP. It is an unflexible ship with regards to boff so playstyle is limited. But, saying it tanks TRIBBLE is just complete utter lie or too naive to even know what the Galaxy R is capable of.
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but the main thing is the free star cruiser is a better tank then the c-store and fleet galaxy
Never a warship ?.............STO isnt canon my friend.. we just have to suffer with it
It was a battleship at the drop of a hat..watch chain of command...watch tng second borg encounter..........and the first
If you like a last place build ...Great
It is the last place ship in the Fed lineup it should be 3rd
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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No STO has nothing to do with canon.....It isnt Canon .......never will be canon
The same as JJ verse will never be considered canon its jj verse
STO is all to itself
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Your last line there is basically the same thing I meant but reworded. You're just strawmanning.
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They would be nothing either one without the Star Trek lable neither are good enough to stand on there own
Neither one obeys established Canon of the label they use...So they disqualify themselves from ever claiming that title forever
soft canon is the only title either can ever claim
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I'm sorry, but that's not right. JJ Trek is indeed canon since it appeared on-screen. It is an alternate reality, however, like things that happened in the anti-time futures, but it is canon since it was a movie release. Canon has nothing to do with the reception of a thing, the only thing defining canon is "was it on a movie or tv screen?".
STO is of course soft-canon, just like EVERYTHING licensed and not taking place on a movie or tv screen which means STO only affects STO, just like a novel only affects this novel or others in it's lineage, nothing else.
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STO is the closest thing we have as a continuation of the Prime Universe, so yeah, it could be counted as "soft canon" I suppose. But if discussing anything exclusive to STO, you're talking about STO's internal canon(assuming one means 'continuity' when they say 'canon'), which may not be the 'main' continuity, but it counts within STO lore.
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Please take the canonicity discussions to another thread and keep this one on topic, please.
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canon is often sited as justification for the galaxy not being terrible, seeing as ship performance is loosely based on their canon counterpart. this part of it is a bit off topic though
the JJvers is its own thing, aside from being created by people from the prime, its got nothing else to do with prime trek. STO is one of the many things that picks up were the prime canon left off, many games and book series have done this.
the galaxy all but cant run the main burst heal ET3 when its got 3 ENS eng, not without skipping damage control doffs or something, that already puts its efficiency down big time. compared to other ships, its got the same number of eng skill, wile they have more tac or sci skills. with all that eng skill, whats it good for? running 2 copies of AtS? 2 or RSP? you save yourself 5 seconds with 2AtS, and if all you do is rely on RSP as your main tank abilty then you are super vulnerable to subnuke. with suck limited sci, you cant even run all 3 sci heals. at most its about as tanky as a tac cruiser with an AtB build, with none of the offense.
thers a good reason people choose healers and tank ships with about as much sci as eng, its because they are BETER. the galaxy R isnt just a different way to tank, it a much worse way to tank. you need HOTS keeping you alive between RSP, and spike heals to counter alphas, they can have all that without low level and high level skills tripping over each other like they do on the galaxy. there is no good build you can make with it because of that period.