The Gal-R fills every possible way a ship can be bad in this game.
No ship is perfect. Here's some strikes that can be tallied against ships: Less than 3 Tac Powers - Without at least 3 Tac Powers, there's no arm you can twist that will give you full coverage on your Attack Pattern, your Weapon Skill, and your Tac Team. Without a LtC Tac or better, your ship cannot use high-end tactical powers like APO. This can make it impossible for you to escape from various spammed holds. Too Many Engineering Ensigns - With more than 2 Engi Ensigns, you're locked into the low-level versions of powers, otherwise you will be trapped in shared CD hell at the high end. Lack of LtC Sci - Without LtC Sci, you cannot use high-end Science Powers at all, and therefore, can't do anything Science-interesting. 5 Engi Consoles - Due to diminshing returns on Engi consoles, additional Engi consoles offer far reduced marginal value compared to other types of console: Sci consoles typically have a flat return, Tactical consoles actually have an increasing return! Having 5 of a console type is only valuable if it is desirable to fill a ship with 5 of that type of console. Otherwise, it's a wasted slot used as a dumping ground for Uni consoles.
The Gal-R simply hits nearly every single failing on the list of failings. That's why it is bad. That's why it will ALWAYS be bad. It's not any one single flaw that sinks the ship, it's the fact that it hits EVERY POSSIBLE WAY IT CAN BE WRONG.
you forget the speed/turn/inertia combine to all the rest, it make this ship a pure gem.
Warp 13............Canon
phaser lance ....should be the most powerful lance weapon in the game..........Canon
Gal R
Should hit like a battleship and take damage as a battleship
attack pattern Sierra
antimatter spread
Deflector shot
should have great science abilitys
all canon
just give the ships what there soposed to have
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
i want you to find a bo layout worst than the galaxy retrofit.
just one rule, it must be eng heavie.
the objective are:
having less firepower than the galaxy if possible
having less tanking capacitie than the galaxy if possible
having less cc science capacitie than the galaxy if possible
if just one of these 3 objective is succed while having the 2 other as bad as they were before we will have a winner!
you get the story, the objectiv is to have a ship less efficient than the galaxy retrofit, just like the galaxy is less efficient than a star cruiser.
that cant happen unless the system cooldowns are removed from EPt skills like they were for the team skills, so you could run 3 or even all 4 EPt skills at once, or if a new eng station power or 2 is created, something unprecedented seeing as there have been none since launch.
Look at it this way. They've changed traits so drastically in the update and introduced a lot(in lockboxes and such) since traits have been expanded upon. And there's a skill system update coming in season 10/11. I'd say now's a good time for some hope there. And I was more thinking of like 5 or 6 more Ensign Eng skills at the very least, but whatever's manageable.
And about the EP2X skills. I understand why they won't remove the shared cooldown on them - because in-character, you're drawing from your emergency power supply. Maybe if they gave us an actual emergency power meter that lets us spam more than one EP2X skill at a time, but after X times it would need to regen(like hull regen maybe)... I don't know, throwing an idea out there. But IMO there's no excuse not to.
The only place it's somewhat competitive is tanking/healing.
But the Ambassador, Star Cruiser and Odyssey's do it better.
I'm not even going to go into DPS.
In terms of endgame ship even the research science retrofit is better. And that's possibly the worst Sci ship in game.
the nebula is pretty nice actually, might be the talkiest sci ship. the fleet research has the vulcan ship's station setup, that's a station setup the vesta or wells cant duplicate, at least it has a reason to exist.
But seriously. The Pasteur had to be saved by a Galaxy on screen in its only appearance but if I were forced to chose 1 of the 2 I'd probably chose the Pasteur retrofit.
the fleet research is basically a fleet vulcan sci. LTC level eng skill with a COM, LT and ENS sci give you plenty of low level sci for heals so you can use high level sci for offense. theres nothing about it that's bad in game, its just not very desirable cause its goofy lookin, and the P2W sci ships are so hilariously power creeped compared to more basic sci ships. they have to be to appeal to pve'ers, because sci ships don't serve to much of a purpose outside PVP.
the nebula is pretty nice actually, might be the talkiest sci ship. the fleet research has the vulcan ship's station setup, that's a station setup the vesta or wells cant duplicate, at least it has a reason to exist.
It would still be a nice move to have a galaxy variant with and eng/sci reversed nebula layout. That's what I suggested way back before the separation transformation and all that came into account.
It's the same ship family and they share quite a lot of design elements and mission profiles. CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, Lt Tac, Lt Uni and ENS Eng would be a nice choice and make sense for the console layout the ship has.
I mean why does the Gal have 3 science consoles in the first place when it only has two science abilities? It just makes no sense. It doesn't make sense either to disregard anything without LTC tac and LTC sci to be a useless ship. But a Explorer with inversed Nebula layout and sensor analysis would be quite a sight to behold
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
But, but, but...I want them to give the GX a LTC Tac seat so I can run an Attack Pattern AND a Cannon skill!!
Ideas for making the Galaxy-R more viable in it's current state!
Give a passive where the more Engineering consoles you have equipped, the more +Something you get. Only apply it to Cruisers and Battle Cruisers.
Make a Cmd level Engineering skill only trainable by Engineering Captains that does something super-duper awesome for every Engineering power you have.
Create more Ensign level Engineering powers that don't overlap and have decent effects. I mean, look at all of the Ensign level Sci powers that don't overlap.
the R. the X was fine, now its really fine. its always been about the R
Yes, I agree with you about the X. I would agree with you a couple of seasons back about the R. The R's quality is subjective on the player especially now that there are more tools in Season 9 to help R overcome those disadvantages.
The R was never meant to out dps any tac heavy ship nor be as flexible as odyssey nor have too many Sci stuff. I have accepted that fact. I never forced to play the ship not the way it should be played. Forcing it to be played like an assault cruiser, avenger, fleet carrier or an escort and used to fast paced/high dps will really be disappointed with Gal R just like how disappointed I was a couple of seasons ago. So, I adapted and improved instead of complaining.
Regardless, in its present state with all tools/experiences taken from Season 9 and earlier, Fleet Galaxy R can do at 10k dps on ISE at PUGs and at the same time still have a total hp shield and hull at 100k at 60% allres on the right build played the right way which will aggro an average of 80% of total damage of the all mobs to your whole group per mission.
So, I suggest players to go back to drawing board with regards to this ship as certain changes in Season 9 helped the Fleet Galaxy R.
So, is this only for hashing out the Galaxy-R or does the Galaxy-X count as well?
Serious question.
no, galaxy x count as well, at least for me.
sorry, this hangar don't make it "fine", it just make it a little better.
we are still talking about a 6base/25 inertia lt tact ship.
and the spinal lance is still TRIBBLE.
but i mostly speak for pvp, for pve the hangar is a good power addition on the long term.
would love that they remove that hangar and give it a lt commander tact instead, wich will give it more reliable firepower and more versatility and less cliky.
but keep in mind we are just talking here, nothing we proposed or suggest will ever be implemented by cryptic concerning these 2 ships.
sorry, it is just to not keep your hope up that this will eventually come to any changes.
But, but, but...I want them to give the GX a LTC Tac seat so I can run an Attack Pattern AND a Cannon skill!!
Ideas for making the Galaxy-R more viable in it's current state!
Give a passive where the more Engineering consoles you have equipped, the more +Something you get. Only apply it to Cruisers and Battle Cruisers.
Make a Cmd level Engineering skill only trainable by Engineering Captains that does something super-duper awesome for every Engineering power you have.
Create more Ensign level Engineering powers that don't overlap and have decent effects. I mean, look at all of the Ensign level Sci powers that don't overlap.
The thread started as a complaint about the Galaxy-R being lackluster, but then naturally acompanied the Galaxy-X as well through time. Now after the "reboot" the Galaxy-R is the main foucs, although there are still complaints about the Galaxy-X mainly because of the Boff seating and the stupid slapping of the hangar instead of doing something more in line with the class.
Anyway, noone can deny that in their current state, the Galaxy-X is lightyears away from the Galaxy-R in terms of in-game usefulness.
The ideas for imporvement you gave here are solid and similar things have been discussed already. The real question though is - how do you implement such improvements so the Galaxy-R could have the most benefit, so it's brought up closer to the rest of the cruisers - without those improvements benefiting the other cruisers even more. Because if this happens, the Galaxy-R will still be the worst at the end of the day. An example of this is the shared team abilities cooldowns - when they took out the shared cooldowns, that benefited the Galaxy-R, but ironically - that benefited the Excelsior for ex. 50 times more.
I'm using the Galaxy-R. In time, with much much grinding and investment, fine-tuning, learning all the tips and tricks and hours upon hours of practice I managed to make a respectfull Galaxy-R. It can carry any pug and does a solid amount of DPS, even good amount when I'm having a good day. What saddens me is that when I take the Excelsior straight out of the shipyard, I get better preformance in any conceivable way - without all the effort to make it work that I mentioned.
Personally, I'd be fine with the Galaxy-R's current console and Boff setup if they implement changes to engineering skills like the ones you've mentioned and bring back the role of a tanking cruiser in STO. But, I'm afraid that ship sailed a long time ago, I look at my new Tempest and that thing can tank any elite content, and it's an escort. And there are people that'll tell you that the trinity is the wrong way to go, which they're probably right about.
Besides ddis's proposal for the Galaxy ships to swap Boff stations on separation that came after we found out about the DSDs and the ability for Cryptic to do that, which is a very good proposal and could solve the Galaxy complaints forever - I personally also fancied giving the Galaxy-R the Boff station setup of the D'Deridex, sligthly altered by having the ens.station an engineering one and keeping the current console setup. It would prevent the ship being a good A2B FOTM platform, but it would be a more genuine representation of the ship - jack of all trades, master of none and would definitely make it much more usefull that it currently is.
i want you to find a bo layout worst than the galaxy retrofit.
just one rule, it must be eng heavie.
the objective are:
having less firepower than the galaxy if possible
having less tanking capacitie than the galaxy if possible
having less cc science capacitie than the galaxy if possible
if just one of these 3 objective is succed while having the 2 other as bad as they were before we will have a winner!
you get the story, the objectiv is to have a ship less efficient than the galaxy retrofit, just like the galaxy is less efficient than a star cruiser.
on your mark!! GO! XD
Well, I still maintain that the Intrepid is the worst ship in the game. It can out sci a Gal-R... but that's about it.
Doesn't really matter, as even the worst ships in the game play fine in PvE, and PvP is so god-awful right now I don't even consider it (Even tho it is what I spend most of my time doing nowadays)
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
My main thought is you can't really help out some of these lower end ships without changing how the game functions right now. With diminishing returns on our defenses and the fact that there really isn't that huge of a difference in defenses between a cruiser, science vessel, and an escort. Most of the things that destroy me in a Science vessel or an escort do the same if i'm hit in a cruiser. Engineer consoles and science consoles are rarely used for their own consoles and are mostly seen as good places for Universals where as most everyone I've seen uses tac console slots for their tac consoles. These are the things that need fixed to help out the Galaxy and others. When it comes down to it most will choose to concentrate on dealing damage rather then taking it cause frankly its at this point more practical to do so. Survival difference between these classes of ships needs to be much more dramatic to cause ppl to want to play tank roles or science roles rather then picking the Dps type ships with the higher tac slots and tac boffs.
I have made builds for the Galaxy along with other cruisers that can tank a Tac cube for as long as it takes for others to blow it up. But with this same build I do slow damage barely scratching it compared to my builds with Sovereigns and the new Avenger or my Defiant. What they lack in staying power with my Dps builds they make up for in the fact that I may die once or twice but I also knock out a good chuck of their hull.
Only way I can see making Pve interesting or well a challenge for higher gear players in a way that makes ships like the Galaxy, Star cruiser, Intrepid, and other ships lacking in Tactical options and well Dps is gonna really throw pvp into turmoil.
Only other option is simply making all ships customizable in their boff and console slots and power distribution so that we can pick our ship skin and build it up how we want. Sadly this won't fix the game it just make less desirable ships into ships that can go toe to toe in the Dps game we have now.
I'm not one that likes the whole Tank healer support dps roles in games but its either go back to just that or make all ships able to be built in ways that more perform in the way this game is going as of now.
Comments
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Warp 13............Canon
phaser lance ....should be the most powerful lance weapon in the game..........Canon
Gal R
Should hit like a battleship and take damage as a battleship
attack pattern Sierra
antimatter spread
Deflector shot
should have great science abilitys
all canon
just give the ships what there soposed to have
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
everyone can play, even the devs.
i want you to find a bo layout worst than the galaxy retrofit.
just one rule, it must be eng heavie.
the objective are:
having less firepower than the galaxy if possible
having less tanking capacitie than the galaxy if possible
having less cc science capacitie than the galaxy if possible
if just one of these 3 objective is succed while having the 2 other as bad as they were before we will have a winner!
you get the story, the objectiv is to have a ship less efficient than the galaxy retrofit, just like the galaxy is less efficient than a star cruiser.
on your mark!! GO! XD
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
And about the EP2X skills. I understand why they won't remove the shared cooldown on them - because in-character, you're drawing from your emergency power supply. Maybe if they gave us an actual emergency power meter that lets us spam more than one EP2X skill at a time, but after X times it would need to regen(like hull regen maybe)... I don't know, throwing an idea out there. But IMO there's no excuse not to.
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Hahaha, damn you are right!
Thaught it was obvious but yes, it must be a tier 5 ship
For a second there i thaught you have actually found a worst combination!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
the nebula is pretty nice actually, might be the talkiest sci ship. the fleet research has the vulcan ship's station setup, that's a station setup the vesta or wells cant duplicate, at least it has a reason to exist.
yeah it is TRIBBLE but, the challenge is to found a bo layout worst than this.
not to enumerate eveything that is better;)
it is a bo layout that you have to invent, not an existing one.
funny challenge, and we of course must stay with the specification of tier5 ship
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
the fleet research is basically a fleet vulcan sci. LTC level eng skill with a COM, LT and ENS sci give you plenty of low level sci for heals so you can use high level sci for offense. theres nothing about it that's bad in game, its just not very desirable cause its goofy lookin, and the P2W sci ships are so hilariously power creeped compared to more basic sci ships. they have to be to appeal to pve'ers, because sci ships don't serve to much of a purpose outside PVP.
last call for the challenge!
gecko?
bort?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
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Easy.
Tier 1 Miranda.
Where's my monies?
You get nothing!
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Serious question.
only is it;s console was a super form of ramming speed that when you hit your opponent they turned into a planet
now that would be epic LOLs in the battle zone or fleet alert
It would still be a nice move to have a galaxy variant with and eng/sci reversed nebula layout. That's what I suggested way back before the separation transformation and all that came into account.
It's the same ship family and they share quite a lot of design elements and mission profiles. CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, Lt Tac, Lt Uni and ENS Eng would be a nice choice and make sense for the console layout the ship has.
I mean why does the Gal have 3 science consoles in the first place when it only has two science abilities? It just makes no sense. It doesn't make sense either to disregard anything without LTC tac and LTC sci to be a useless ship. But a Explorer with inversed Nebula layout and sensor analysis would be quite a sight to behold
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the R. the X was fine, now its really fine. its always been about the R
But!... The Miranda! Think of the Miranda!
Ideas for making the Galaxy-R more viable in it's current state!
Give a passive where the more Engineering consoles you have equipped, the more +Something you get. Only apply it to Cruisers and Battle Cruisers.
Make a Cmd level Engineering skill only trainable by Engineering Captains that does something super-duper awesome for every Engineering power you have.
Create more Ensign level Engineering powers that don't overlap and have decent effects. I mean, look at all of the Ensign level Sci powers that don't overlap.
Yes, I agree with you about the X. I would agree with you a couple of seasons back about the R. The R's quality is subjective on the player especially now that there are more tools in Season 9 to help R overcome those disadvantages.
The R was never meant to out dps any tac heavy ship nor be as flexible as odyssey nor have too many Sci stuff. I have accepted that fact. I never forced to play the ship not the way it should be played. Forcing it to be played like an assault cruiser, avenger, fleet carrier or an escort and used to fast paced/high dps will really be disappointed with Gal R just like how disappointed I was a couple of seasons ago. So, I adapted and improved instead of complaining.
Regardless, in its present state with all tools/experiences taken from Season 9 and earlier, Fleet Galaxy R can do at 10k dps on ISE at PUGs and at the same time still have a total hp shield and hull at 100k at 60% allres on the right build played the right way which will aggro an average of 80% of total damage of the all mobs to your whole group per mission.
So, I suggest players to go back to drawing board with regards to this ship as certain changes in Season 9 helped the Fleet Galaxy R.
no, galaxy x count as well, at least for me.
sorry, this hangar don't make it "fine", it just make it a little better.
we are still talking about a 6base/25 inertia lt tact ship.
and the spinal lance is still TRIBBLE.
but i mostly speak for pvp, for pve the hangar is a good power addition on the long term.
would love that they remove that hangar and give it a lt commander tact instead, wich will give it more reliable firepower and more versatility and less cliky.
but keep in mind we are just talking here, nothing we proposed or suggest will ever be implemented by cryptic concerning these 2 ships.
sorry, it is just to not keep your hope up that this will eventually come to any changes.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
The thread started as a complaint about the Galaxy-R being lackluster, but then naturally acompanied the Galaxy-X as well through time. Now after the "reboot" the Galaxy-R is the main foucs, although there are still complaints about the Galaxy-X mainly because of the Boff seating and the stupid slapping of the hangar instead of doing something more in line with the class.
Anyway, noone can deny that in their current state, the Galaxy-X is lightyears away from the Galaxy-R in terms of in-game usefulness.
The ideas for imporvement you gave here are solid and similar things have been discussed already. The real question though is - how do you implement such improvements so the Galaxy-R could have the most benefit, so it's brought up closer to the rest of the cruisers - without those improvements benefiting the other cruisers even more. Because if this happens, the Galaxy-R will still be the worst at the end of the day. An example of this is the shared team abilities cooldowns - when they took out the shared cooldowns, that benefited the Galaxy-R, but ironically - that benefited the Excelsior for ex. 50 times more.
I'm using the Galaxy-R. In time, with much much grinding and investment, fine-tuning, learning all the tips and tricks and hours upon hours of practice I managed to make a respectfull Galaxy-R. It can carry any pug and does a solid amount of DPS, even good amount when I'm having a good day.
Personally, I'd be fine with the Galaxy-R's current console and Boff setup if they implement changes to engineering skills like the ones you've mentioned and bring back the role of a tanking cruiser in STO. But, I'm afraid that ship sailed a long time ago, I look at my new Tempest and that thing can tank any elite content, and it's an escort. And there are people that'll tell you that the trinity is the wrong way to go, which they're probably right about.
Besides ddis's proposal for the Galaxy ships to swap Boff stations on separation that came after we found out about the DSDs and the ability for Cryptic to do that, which is a very good proposal and could solve the Galaxy complaints forever - I personally also fancied giving the Galaxy-R the Boff station setup of the D'Deridex, sligthly altered by having the ens.station an engineering one and keeping the current console setup. It would prevent the ship being a good A2B FOTM platform, but it would be a more genuine representation of the ship - jack of all trades, master of none and would definitely make it much more usefull that it currently is.
Well, I still maintain that the Intrepid is the worst ship in the game. It can out sci a Gal-R... but that's about it.
Doesn't really matter, as even the worst ships in the game play fine in PvE, and PvP is so god-awful right now I don't even consider it (Even tho it is what I spend most of my time doing nowadays)
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I have made builds for the Galaxy along with other cruisers that can tank a Tac cube for as long as it takes for others to blow it up. But with this same build I do slow damage barely scratching it compared to my builds with Sovereigns and the new Avenger or my Defiant. What they lack in staying power with my Dps builds they make up for in the fact that I may die once or twice but I also knock out a good chuck of their hull.
Only way I can see making Pve interesting or well a challenge for higher gear players in a way that makes ships like the Galaxy, Star cruiser, Intrepid, and other ships lacking in Tactical options and well Dps is gonna really throw pvp into turmoil.
Only other option is simply making all ships customizable in their boff and console slots and power distribution so that we can pick our ship skin and build it up how we want. Sadly this won't fix the game it just make less desirable ships into ships that can go toe to toe in the Dps game we have now.
I'm not one that likes the whole Tank healer support dps roles in games but its either go back to just that or make all ships able to be built in ways that more perform in the way this game is going as of now.