This is at least the fourth version of this thread ive seen where TSI decides that they will now use all the cheese in the game. It's like the matrix - this has all happened before and will happen again.
Heres a STO history lesson - TSI has always and will always use cheese and exploits to win. I can't believe years later people still think otherwise. From Tactical Captain exploits to FAW to Torp Spread to whatever it is now, theyll use it. Dont believe otherwise.
TSI and Qew made a tournament ruleset with some restrictions, one of them being the one hit kill torp spread. We'd meet them in arena queues, beat them 15-0 under the tournament rules, only to have them come back literally 5 minutes later in the next game with the same 5 guys but this time with torp spread on their science ships.
They had to though. Someone said they have 7 good players. Thats a joke. They have 2. Rock and Era. Era keeps the team alive, and Rock blows things up. Everyone else is filler. Control rock with harrassment (power drains, turn speeder debuffs, tractor beams) and then TSI gets no kills. Thats why they had to use torp spread on their Sci ships to get any kills against us, because they only had 1 escort player that could do anything and he was easy to control.
Anyways, I cant believe theres still drama around this fleet. This topic is exactly what theyve been like the whole time.
Love Kharns
QEW
pewpew
well thats not very nice. i seem to recall most of tsi as being looked upon in some form or another and i persoanlly think i've helped a lot in the past with science builds/how to use it.
the one thing tsi has had and always will have is our ability to adapt to any situation we're in.
there was a game not too long ago where a tsi team i was on ran into a teams worst nightmare.
4 fed cruisers with extend shields and a hard hitting jem attack ship. we were losing, badly.
we didnt *****, we didnt moan, we didnt complain, what did we do? we adapted. our science guy on our team (me) after figuring out with the team that he needed to change his bo's around.
so mid game i flew out of combat range and swapped some powers then came back in. guess what happened? we won.
we were down pretty bad until we adapted to the extend shields and took a couple shockwaves that were then used to expose targets.
they unfortantly were not able to adapt to our adapation. and TSI managed to pull a victory.
thats the power of teamwork and the power of adapting on the fly to the current combat situation.
that is what has always been TSI's "secret".
and reguardless of what anyone says/will say. TSI's policy has consistanly been for the past 3 years- TSI team members will use what they want, when they want unless its requestion in a premade match setting to restrict specific abilities/powers/whatever.
also keep in mind that TSI has almost been together with the same people for about 3 years. we learned what each other pretty well over time. that gives one of the biggest advantages too.
Nevertheless it completely dodges the post you quoted. Wanna tell a story about the FAW or Torp Spread incidents?
And when all you spanish buddies say that you allow each other to use whatever they want, does that include exploits, which this game has always been full of? Or do you draw a line between cheese and broken mechanics? Guess not, since you used it all.
Nevertheless it completely dodges the post you quoted. Wanna tell a story about the FAW or Torp Spread incidents?
And when all you spanish buddies say that you allow each other to use whatever they want, does that include exploits, which this game has always been full of? Or do you draw a line between cheese and broken mechanics? Guess not, since you used it all.
we've never really used FAW. era ran it a bit a while back i think and zorena toyed with it on an escort to show the dev's how broken it was.
torp spread incidents? i recall myself using it almost all the time but then, ive always used torp spread on my science builds. same with scramble sensors. i've always used it too.
what exploits are you saying tsi uses?
the only incident i can think of even remotly close to being considered that is when zorena used the tacitcal to boost defense thing that EVERY tacitcal was doing weither they knew it or not.
but that was a couple years ago.
broken mechanics need to be fixed. a good example of a broken mechanic is the "one crit to rule them all" bug. but this applies to just about everything in the game with mulitple hits itd be hard for anyone to not use this mechanic.
and there arent any exploits in this game that i'm aware of.
and as for cheese, cryptic put it there, crypitc has listened to the community and ignored it. i personally still feel that the pvp community is partly to blame for not showing crypitc often enough because of "gentlemens" agreements to not use "cheese".
thats a backwards step imo. if somthing is cheesy, it needs to be shoved into the dev's faces so they can what they did. rub their noses in it.
we've never really used FAW. era ran it a bit a while back i think and zorena toyed with it on an escort to show the dev's how broken it was.
torp spread incidents? i recall myself using it almost all the time but then, ive always used torp spread on my science builds. same with scramble sensors. i've always used it too.
what exploits are you saying tsi uses?
the only incident i can think of even remotly close to being considered that is when zorena used the tacitcal to boost defense thing that EVERY tacitcal was doing weither they knew it or not.
but that was a couple years ago.
broken mechanics need to be fixed. a good example of a broken mechanic is the "one crit to rule them all" bug. but this applies to just about everything in the game with mulitple hits itd be hard for anyone to not use this mechanic.
and there arent any exploits in this game that i'm aware of.
and as for cheese, cryptic put it there, crypitc has listened to the community and ignored it. i personally still feel that the pvp community is partly to blame for not showing crypitc often enough because of "gentlemens" agreements to not use "cheese".
thats a backwards step imo. if somthing is cheesy, it needs to be shoved into the dev's faces so they can what they did. rub their noses in it.
Extremely entertaining stuff. Had me rolling from the first sentence to the last
As a complete outsider to this conversation, I would say that what you have said above is flawed logic.
The only people's noses it would be rubbed in, are other players.
and then the more people that would complain about powers being too over the top the more crytpic would have to take notice. i know my logic isnt perfect but i see it this way.
the average joe uses consoles, they dont use them very well. so cryptic sees nothing wrong with the console.
the average pvp'r uses the console, it causes extreme duress to other players, cryptic then hears from a lot more players then currently about the issues.
not using them is showing cryptic that there is nothing wrong becuase noone outside of the small pvp community says anything about them.
not using them for the past couple years, since the first console came out... has done absolutly nothing to get them fixed.
this is why i have no interest in premades, pvp pecking orders, the elite pvp fleets, and pvp dynastyes. what the hell are you all talking about anyway? are any of you having fun any more?
i am, because i know that being good at pvp, or even the best at it is not a tangible accomplishment. the only thing you can get out of it is enjoyment. i will always do what i think is fun first, and what is effective second. luckily, what i find fun through accident or force of will becomes effective in its own way, and much fun is had.
i think everyone needs to just forget this thread ever happened, and decide for yourselves just what is fair play and what isn't and let your builds reflect that. we all know what sucks the fun out of pvp, and it will never be ok with me to use any of it.
I've said it in a few threads. Yeah, I get there are egos and reputation, etc, etc, etc - but it's STO PvP - it's casual. Pew Pew for Fun! It's kind of insane how folks get their panties so bunched up about it.
They're the kind of discussions that I would have expected to see back in UO, AO, SB, and EVE. They always made me laugh in games like WoW...and other casual PvP games.
I suppose it's a FPS mentality - where nothing really came of it, but it was about reputation and egos. I got old, though - left that all behind back in my HLDM days. Sure, in certain games with PvP where the outcome mattered - definitely took it serioulsy, but wanting to be known as the best guy with a crowbar on TM3 was so long ago - besides, I always had to give the edge to BigRedMachine.
...ruh roh, I'm going down memory lane - time to go take my medications and put my teeth in, eh?
But yeah, Pew Pew for Fun... I mean, seriously - would you walk up to somebody and tell them that you're big in PvP in STO - and - and - and - not expect them to laugh their TRIBBLE off?
People take this too seriously... and seriously, nobody commented on my S7 Chimera BoomBoomBoat?
Guess I just find it funny you say you guys didn't use FAW much.
As far as your shove it down their throats mentality goes, they would have to be listening first. I suppose if a country wanted to prove to the world how bad nuclear weapons are, they could just fire off every nuke they have to show them their right too. Or if someone wanted to pass a law to be harder on child rapists, they should first put 5 convicted rapists to work in every school to prove how much harm they can do.
Guess I just find it funny you say you guys didn't use FAW much.
As far as your shove it down their throats mentality goes, they would have to be listening first. I suppose if a country wanted to prove to the world how bad nuclear weapons are, they could just fire off every nuke they have to show them their right too. Or if someone wanted to pass a law to be harder on child rapists, they should first put 5 convicted rapists to work in every school to prove how much harm they can do.
those are really extreme compairisons.
your first example-
the problem there is that the world knows how deadly nukes are, so if a country is threating to nuke the world because theyre not listened too, they will get listened too.
Cryptic doesnt even seemingly know just how powerful these consoles and abilities are, and on rare specific occasions have flat out said theyre supposed to be more powerful because you buy them.
the problem is, the pvp community knows just how OVER POWERFUL they are compaired to everything else. cryptic does not.
i see that as because the pvp community has kept it to itself mostly, while people who have no idea what theyre doing use them and dont see any issues, because theyre more then likely not using them right.
your second example-
if theyre convicted then that means its already been determined by the group at large just how dangerous they are.
once again, crypitc does not have this because the people who know just how extreme they are don't use them out of a gentlemens agreement. which has cause any eyes that see them being used, being only used by people who are not making the most out of them.
once again- the pvp community keeping it to itself has cause absolutly NO changes to occur to the powers, not even a global cooldown. in fact, i think the community keeping quite has made it worse.
remember when consoles were restricted to their own ships class? that had a little bit of balance to it. then they took it away too.
the problem there is that the world knows how deadly nukes are, so if a country is threating to nuke the world because theyre not listened too, they will get listened too.
so your point here is that your only threatening the community to use them?
Cryptic doesnt even seemingly know just how powerful these consoles and abilities are, and on rare specific occasions have flat out said theyre supposed to be more powerful because you buy them.
the problem is, the pvp community knows just how OVER POWERFUL they are compaired to everything else. cryptic does not.
i see that as because the pvp community has kept it to itself mostly, while people who have no idea what theyre doing use them and dont see any issues, because theyre more then likely not using them right.
really? The community has cried foul since the day cryptic announced they would make consoles universal. If they haven't listened so far, your solution is to drive as many people away from pvp by chewing them to death to get cryptic to listen? "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" essentially
your second example-
if theyre convicted then that means its already been determined by the group at large just how dangerous they are.
once again, crypitc does not have this because the people who know just how extreme they are don't use them out of a gentlemens agreement. which has cause any eyes that see them being used, being only used by people who are not making the most out of them.
once again- the pvp community keeping it to itself has cause absolutly NO changes to occur to the powers, not even a global cooldown. in fact, i think the community keeping quite has made it worse.
your argument is based in the fact that cryptic indeed cares about balance>profit. The only way they're going to listen is if you hurt their profit enough to make them listen. That involves driving away as many people from pvp as possible. Even then, how many people would it take to overcome their profits in console sales?
remember when consoles were restricted to their own ships class? that had a little bit of balance to it. then they took it away too.
I do remember, and it was balanced. In reality, we've had console powers dating back to when the intrepid was introduced, even if the extra power wasn't a console. It's them becoming universal that became the issue. You think cryptic will seriously reverse this decision?
I do remember, and it was balanced. In reality, we've had console powers dating back to when the intrepid was introduced, even if the extra power wasn't a console. It's them becoming universal that became the issue. You think cryptic will seriously reverse this decision?
It may have been less unbalanced, but the game wasn't balanced then.
Or are you forgetting the lolz Raiders could bring w/the 1st go around of Vent theta console et al?
How about the C-Store ships themselves not being balanced pre-Season 5 and it took the +.5 ships coming out for a Dev to finally admit C-Store ships were by design meant to be OP all along?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i often wonder why P2W is such a problem i mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum feds can buy theta cheap klinks can buy ams cheap. i have 2 accounts with mutiple toons which allows me to make alot of zen on a weekly basis if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons cant make 1000zen a week so again why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?
It may have been less unbalanced, but the game wasn't balanced then.
Or are you forgetting the lolz Raiders could bring w/the 1st go around of Vent theta console et al?
How about the C-Store ships themselves not being balanced pre-Season 5 and it took the +.5 ships coming out for a Dev to finally admit C-Store ships were by design meant to be OP all along?
To be fair,in the life of this game, it has been unbalanced 10 times the amount of time it actually has been balanced (some would even argue that it's never been balanced) so I guess the term "balanced" is relative to the users perception.
The devs know damn well that the consoles create unbalance. It's already been pointed out in this thread that they admitted to making them OP to sell them. Not sure how pointing out they're OP to the people that came right out and said they're OP is going to change much. Best case scenario is they will nerf them, and then tsi will take credit and continue to use them. Either way, you guys are going to use them from here on out. It's just easier to stand on a pedestal and say "we're doing this for the pvp community" while making everyone you come across completely miserable.
Gentlemans agreement, treaties, accords...call it what you will, they never work. In the end, the amount of cheese you bring to the table is just a sign of your character. Please don't try to dress it up for more than it is. This community is to smart to be fooled that easily.
i often wonder why P2W is such a problem i mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum feds can buy theta cheap klinks can buy ams cheap. i have 2 accounts with mutiple toons which allows me to make alot of zen on a weekly basis if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons cant make 1000zen a week so again why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?
Just a general handle given to the OP item sold out of the z-store. Whether YOU paid real money or traded dil-zen, SOMEBODY paid enough real money to buy it.
i often wonder why P2W is such a problem i mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum feds can buy theta cheap klinks can buy ams cheap. i have 2 accounts with mutiple toons which allows me to make alot of zen on a weekly basis if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons cant make 1000zen a week so again why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?
1. It speeds up power creep. This pushes the extremes of balancing.
2. It eats up a lot of dev time making the next power creep.
3. It encourages gambling via lotto boxes.
4. While you may not pay for it someone does.
5. There are now tiers of P2W which aren't balanced, and there's unbalances intra tiers of P2W.
6. People play games for fun, not to grind ie work. PvPers, don't like having to grind PvE all the time.
7. It gates new players from being as compatative as they could/should be, since they now have to grind for doffs, ships, sets, P2W consoles, etc.
8. 1-7 drives players from PvP resulting Cryptic Mgt having a pretext to not invest in PvP.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
To be fair,in the life of this game, it has been unbalanced 10 times the amount of time it actually has been balanced (some would even argue that it's never been balanced) so I guess the term "balanced" is relative to the users perception.
The devs know damn well that the consoles create unbalance. It's already been pointed out in this thread that they admitted to making them OP to sell them. Not sure how pointing out they're OP to the people that came right out and said they're OP is going to change much. Best case scenario is they will nerf them, and then tsi will take credit and continue to use them. Either way, you guys are going to use them from here on out. It's just easier to stand on a pedestal and say "we're doing this for the pvp community" while making everyone you come across completely miserable.
Gentlemans agreement, treaties, accords...call it what you will, they never work. In the end, the amount of cheese you bring to the table is just a sign of your character. Please don't try to dress it up for more than it is. This community is to smart to be fooled that easily.
Fyi, I'm not in TSI. Speaking for myself regarding consoles, generally I fight kind with kind.
For the most part I agree w/your 1st paragraph. I just have a pet peeve w/people who claim things were balanced when they were not.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Look everyone, the dude apologized for all this none sense. Let's all move on and just forget it ever happened. Really not going anywhere with this, we all know the history of stuff that happened and we all have our opinions about it. This thread is as public it can get when it comes to TSI's history. Let's just leave it at that and say some stuff was said that should not of been said, but it's all the same and water under the bridge at this point.
For those that say "we're all here to have fun etc"
Well, we are. But there's merited truth to the part where there is no fun in constantly respawning because you got blown up by trics as soon as you got back into the action. There is no fun in the use of tric mines and let's all agree on that and move on.
I ultimately blame the Devs for not looking into my thread about the tric mines. I knew this would happen amongst players and amount to this frustration. Perhaps the discussion should move over there on a more sober note? Where we can discuss balancing suggestions to it?
Look everyone, the dude apologized for all this none sense. Let's all move on and just forget it ever happened. Really not going anywhere with this, we all know the history of stuff that happened and we all have our opinions about it. This thread is as public it can get when it comes to TSI's history. Let's just leave it at that and say some stuff was said that should not of been said, but it's all the same and water under the bridge at this point.
For those that say "we're all here to have fun etc"
Well, we are. But there's merited truth to the part where there is no fun in constantly respawning because you got blown up by trics as soon as you got back into the action. There is no fun in the use of tric mines and let's all agree on that and move on.
I ultimately blame the Devs for not looking into my thread about the tric mines. I knew this would happen amongst players and amount to this frustration. Perhaps the discussion should move over there on a more sober note? Where we can discuss balancing suggestions to it?
First off, as you can see in devoras' apology thread, I did my best to encourage him to move forward and complimented him on his humbleness. This "debate" has moved past having anything to do with devoras
I'm now once again arguing with tsi's policy of "let's make everyone miserable again for the next six months to try to get the devs attention" approach to get things changed. I'm not even really "debating" about DPB at this point of the conversation.
Blaming the devs is like stating water is wet. This whole conversation is the devs fault for not doing anything with the balance of their game.
the problem there is that the world knows how deadly nukes are, so if a country is threating to nuke the world because theyre not listened too, they will get listened too.
and they can also get a very expensive surprise visit from flash drive with code to halt a Nuclear program, possible "liquidation" of key figures, having researchers stolen and in the worst case scenario the big boot heel of worldwide "No, we do not trust you with toys" visit.
But thats worse case scenario. Usually money changes hands, somebodies relatives and familiy get a free ride to the states and become the new owner of a Hoiday Inn Express so that Flash drive makes it to a terminal.
The real thing to fear is the Orbital EMP generators. Nukes are fun and falshy but nothing says "Your screwed" lack a nationwide power outtage right before your invaded.
we've never really used FAW. era ran it a bit a while back i think and zorena toyed with it on an escort to show the dev's how broken it was.
torp spread incidents? i recall myself using it almost all the time but then, ive always used torp spread on my science builds. same with scramble sensors. i've always used it too.
I'm not talking about the normal FAW OPness like a year ago. I'm talking about the broken DBB FAW and the broken Torp Spread that let you kill people with full shields on Sci ships. Im talking about the incident Kharn was refering to.
Its like 2010 all over again.
First of all, I'm really glad to see some veterans lurking into STO forums. They remind me of time when i actually enjoyed playing this game. Everything else doesn't matter.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Long and short of it there will be fleets that do everything they can to win, cheesy as it may need to get, and fleets that will take a more honorable road to make pvp as fun as they can for themselves AND others. Sometimes you end up with examples like pandas who almost always end up on top in addition to also not running all the cheesy garbage other fleets will resort to. Usually though, Pugland will suffer a bit more being completely neutered by commander sci level abilities coming from an escort like Grav pulse or AMS while the person using it against them I guess will be saying "see? I told you it was OP!"
the cycle continues and the world keeps turning...
the problem is, the pvp community knows just how OVER POWERFUL they are compaired to everything else. cryptic does not.
i see that as because the pvp community has kept it to itself mostly, while people who have no idea what theyre doing use them and dont see any issues, because theyre more then likely not using them right.
i take it you never came across nova core or sob eh? if you want to put it in the devs faces by using this bs in pvp your doing it wrong. all your doing is frustrating the hell out of good players that chose not to abuse this TRIBBLE. geko thinks we all dont know how to make a build and he will not listen to anyone. he think he knows best. if you plan to show the devs how bad consoles is then make a post titled to bort. he comes in to talk every now and then. but people need to tone it down a bit. sorry to burst your bubble but this is a pve game. just look at the pvp history of sto. think that should explain my point. but its the players job to police thier own build. either go for pure skill or go for bs console builds. but when good fleets resort to bs then well.........sorry but lack of respect to you no matter how good you may be.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
Comments
You'll find me on MWO from time to time with the name Web Death.
And interesting to see you roaming these forums.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Well, well, well. Looks like the gauntlet has been thrown :P
well thats not very nice. i seem to recall most of tsi as being looked upon in some form or another and i persoanlly think i've helped a lot in the past with science builds/how to use it.
the one thing tsi has had and always will have is our ability to adapt to any situation we're in.
there was a game not too long ago where a tsi team i was on ran into a teams worst nightmare.
4 fed cruisers with extend shields and a hard hitting jem attack ship. we were losing, badly.
we didnt *****, we didnt moan, we didnt complain, what did we do? we adapted. our science guy on our team (me) after figuring out with the team that he needed to change his bo's around.
so mid game i flew out of combat range and swapped some powers then came back in. guess what happened? we won.
we were down pretty bad until we adapted to the extend shields and took a couple shockwaves that were then used to expose targets.
they unfortantly were not able to adapt to our adapation. and TSI managed to pull a victory.
thats the power of teamwork and the power of adapting on the fly to the current combat situation.
that is what has always been TSI's "secret".
and reguardless of what anyone says/will say. TSI's policy has consistanly been for the past 3 years- TSI team members will use what they want, when they want unless its requestion in a premade match setting to restrict specific abilities/powers/whatever.
also keep in mind that TSI has almost been together with the same people for about 3 years. we learned what each other pretty well over time. that gives one of the biggest advantages too.
there ya go.
Do you even Science Bro?
What is your GW2 name? While I'm waiting on the Head Elf to deliver my new PC, I've been looking at GW2 and it looks cool and somewhat streamlined.
Though to be honest I'm so tired of fantasy based games.
R.I.P
What a beautiful story...
Nevertheless it completely dodges the post you quoted. Wanna tell a story about the FAW or Torp Spread incidents?
And when all you spanish buddies say that you allow each other to use whatever they want, does that include exploits, which this game has always been full of? Or do you draw a line between cheese and broken mechanics? Guess not, since you used it all.
we've never really used FAW. era ran it a bit a while back i think and zorena toyed with it on an escort to show the dev's how broken it was.
torp spread incidents? i recall myself using it almost all the time but then, ive always used torp spread on my science builds. same with scramble sensors. i've always used it too.
what exploits are you saying tsi uses?
the only incident i can think of even remotly close to being considered that is when zorena used the tacitcal to boost defense thing that EVERY tacitcal was doing weither they knew it or not.
but that was a couple years ago.
broken mechanics need to be fixed. a good example of a broken mechanic is the "one crit to rule them all" bug. but this applies to just about everything in the game with mulitple hits itd be hard for anyone to not use this mechanic.
and there arent any exploits in this game that i'm aware of.
and as for cheese, cryptic put it there, crypitc has listened to the community and ignored it. i personally still feel that the pvp community is partly to blame for not showing crypitc often enough because of "gentlemens" agreements to not use "cheese".
thats a backwards step imo. if somthing is cheesy, it needs to be shoved into the dev's faces so they can what they did. rub their noses in it.
Do you even Science Bro?
As a complete outsider to this conversation, I would say that what you have said above is flawed logic.
The only people's noses it would be rubbed in, are other players.
Extremely entertaining stuff. Had me rolling from the first sentence to the last
and then the more people that would complain about powers being too over the top the more crytpic would have to take notice. i know my logic isnt perfect but i see it this way.
the average joe uses consoles, they dont use them very well. so cryptic sees nothing wrong with the console.
the average pvp'r uses the console, it causes extreme duress to other players, cryptic then hears from a lot more players then currently about the issues.
not using them is showing cryptic that there is nothing wrong becuase noone outside of the small pvp community says anything about them.
not using them for the past couple years, since the first console came out... has done absolutly nothing to get them fixed.
and why's that? are you on fire?
Do you even Science Bro?
I've said it in a few threads. Yeah, I get there are egos and reputation, etc, etc, etc - but it's STO PvP - it's casual. Pew Pew for Fun! It's kind of insane how folks get their panties so bunched up about it.
They're the kind of discussions that I would have expected to see back in UO, AO, SB, and EVE. They always made me laugh in games like WoW...and other casual PvP games.
I suppose it's a FPS mentality - where nothing really came of it, but it was about reputation and egos. I got old, though - left that all behind back in my HLDM days. Sure, in certain games with PvP where the outcome mattered - definitely took it serioulsy, but wanting to be known as the best guy with a crowbar on TM3 was so long ago - besides, I always had to give the edge to BigRedMachine.
...ruh roh, I'm going down memory lane - time to go take my medications and put my teeth in, eh?
But yeah, Pew Pew for Fun... I mean, seriously - would you walk up to somebody and tell them that you're big in PvP in STO - and - and - and - not expect them to laugh their TRIBBLE off?
People take this too seriously... and seriously, nobody commented on my S7 Chimera BoomBoomBoat?
As far as your shove it down their throats mentality goes, they would have to be listening first. I suppose if a country wanted to prove to the world how bad nuclear weapons are, they could just fire off every nuke they have to show them their right too. Or if someone wanted to pass a law to be harder on child rapists, they should first put 5 convicted rapists to work in every school to prove how much harm they can do.
those are really extreme compairisons.
your first example-
the problem there is that the world knows how deadly nukes are, so if a country is threating to nuke the world because theyre not listened too, they will get listened too.
Cryptic doesnt even seemingly know just how powerful these consoles and abilities are, and on rare specific occasions have flat out said theyre supposed to be more powerful because you buy them.
the problem is, the pvp community knows just how OVER POWERFUL they are compaired to everything else. cryptic does not.
i see that as because the pvp community has kept it to itself mostly, while people who have no idea what theyre doing use them and dont see any issues, because theyre more then likely not using them right.
your second example-
if theyre convicted then that means its already been determined by the group at large just how dangerous they are.
once again, crypitc does not have this because the people who know just how extreme they are don't use them out of a gentlemens agreement. which has cause any eyes that see them being used, being only used by people who are not making the most out of them.
once again- the pvp community keeping it to itself has cause absolutly NO changes to occur to the powers, not even a global cooldown. in fact, i think the community keeping quite has made it worse.
remember when consoles were restricted to their own ships class? that had a little bit of balance to it. then they took it away too.
Do you even Science Bro?
I do remember, and it was balanced. In reality, we've had console powers dating back to when the intrepid was introduced, even if the extra power wasn't a console. It's them becoming universal that became the issue. You think cryptic will seriously reverse this decision?
Not gonna touch this one with a 10 foot pole...
Don't really care what everyone uses, we are all here to have fun and that's what I queue for.
"live long enough to be assimilated, resistance is futile"
It may have been less unbalanced, but the game wasn't balanced then.
Or are you forgetting the lolz Raiders could bring w/the 1st go around of Vent theta console et al?
How about the C-Store ships themselves not being balanced pre-Season 5 and it took the +.5 ships coming out for a Dev to finally admit C-Store ships were by design meant to be OP all along?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=473411
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
To be fair,in the life of this game, it has been unbalanced 10 times the amount of time it actually has been balanced (some would even argue that it's never been balanced) so I guess the term "balanced" is relative to the users perception.
The devs know damn well that the consoles create unbalance. It's already been pointed out in this thread that they admitted to making them OP to sell them. Not sure how pointing out they're OP to the people that came right out and said they're OP is going to change much. Best case scenario is they will nerf them, and then tsi will take credit and continue to use them. Either way, you guys are going to use them from here on out. It's just easier to stand on a pedestal and say "we're doing this for the pvp community" while making everyone you come across completely miserable.
Gentlemans agreement, treaties, accords...call it what you will, they never work. In the end, the amount of cheese you bring to the table is just a sign of your character. Please don't try to dress it up for more than it is. This community is to smart to be fooled that easily.
Just a general handle given to the OP item sold out of the z-store. Whether YOU paid real money or traded dil-zen, SOMEBODY paid enough real money to buy it.
1. It speeds up power creep. This pushes the extremes of balancing.
2. It eats up a lot of dev time making the next power creep.
3. It encourages gambling via lotto boxes.
4. While you may not pay for it someone does.
5. There are now tiers of P2W which aren't balanced, and there's unbalances intra tiers of P2W.
6. People play games for fun, not to grind ie work. PvPers, don't like having to grind PvE all the time.
7. It gates new players from being as compatative as they could/should be, since they now have to grind for doffs, ships, sets, P2W consoles, etc.
8. 1-7 drives players from PvP resulting Cryptic Mgt having a pretext to not invest in PvP.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Fyi, I'm not in TSI. Speaking for myself regarding consoles, generally I fight kind with kind.
For the most part I agree w/your 1st paragraph. I just have a pet peeve w/people who claim things were balanced when they were not.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Look everyone, the dude apologized for all this none sense. Let's all move on and just forget it ever happened. Really not going anywhere with this, we all know the history of stuff that happened and we all have our opinions about it. This thread is as public it can get when it comes to TSI's history. Let's just leave it at that and say some stuff was said that should not of been said, but it's all the same and water under the bridge at this point.
For those that say "we're all here to have fun etc"
Well, we are. But there's merited truth to the part where there is no fun in constantly respawning because you got blown up by trics as soon as you got back into the action. There is no fun in the use of tric mines and let's all agree on that and move on.
I ultimately blame the Devs for not looking into my thread about the tric mines. I knew this would happen amongst players and amount to this frustration. Perhaps the discussion should move over there on a more sober note? Where we can discuss balancing suggestions to it?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This ^^^^^
First off, as you can see in devoras' apology thread, I did my best to encourage him to move forward and complimented him on his humbleness. This "debate" has moved past having anything to do with devoras
I'm now once again arguing with tsi's policy of "let's make everyone miserable again for the next six months to try to get the devs attention" approach to get things changed. I'm not even really "debating" about DPB at this point of the conversation.
Blaming the devs is like stating water is wet. This whole conversation is the devs fault for not doing anything with the balance of their game.
R.I.P
I'm not talking about the normal FAW OPness like a year ago. I'm talking about the broken DBB FAW and the broken Torp Spread that let you kill people with full shields on Sci ships. Im talking about the incident Kharn was refering to.
First of all, I'm really glad to see some veterans lurking into STO forums. They remind me of time when i actually enjoyed playing this game. Everything else doesn't matter.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
the cycle continues and the world keeps turning...
ty that explains it best for me...8D
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
tsi is what it is.
we got to the top without exploting, without cheating, and got a lot of hate reguardless.
all i said is tsi member will use what they want. that doesnt mean tsi will use every dirty trick out there.
i dont even know why i bother trying to talk to you guys. you all have such bad opinions towards us from the start.
guess thats the "life isnt fair" thing.
Do you even Science Bro?
i take it you never came across nova core or sob eh? if you want to put it in the devs faces by using this bs in pvp your doing it wrong. all your doing is frustrating the hell out of good players that chose not to abuse this TRIBBLE. geko thinks we all dont know how to make a build and he will not listen to anyone. he think he knows best. if you plan to show the devs how bad consoles is then make a post titled to bort. he comes in to talk every now and then. but people need to tone it down a bit. sorry to burst your bubble but this is a pve game. just look at the pvp history of sto. think that should explain my point. but its the players job to police thier own build. either go for pure skill or go for bs console builds. but when good fleets resort to bs then well.........sorry but lack of respect to you no matter how good you may be.