Supply and demand will always tell the tale of manipulation or not. I have no proof that they are doing it - it's opinion based on being involverd in stock markets for 20+ years and watching the dilthium market for almost a year. Like I said - they have never said they were doing it - although lately I don't think they have said they weren't doing it.
One thing is clear - dilthium supply come next week is going to start dropping with all the new sinks and all the dilthium nerfs and removals
Lots of supply of dilth and less demand of Zen after the Vesta launches and the Doff pack sale ends = a lower price on dilth per Zen - that's how a market which is not supported artificially works.
Unless you have some knowledge of why lots of people will be buying Zen or somehow making up for all the dilthium nerfs - would suddenly happen?
you don't have any knowledge on what players are using, and how much they are playing and what they are saving. you can't sit there and speculate and say well i have no proof but if the market does not crash then Cryptic is intervening.
you also don't know how S7 will effect the game till it's on holodeck. all it is are guesses, but no one will know till some time after.
No matter how many mission rewards you remove and how high you jack up dilithium prices, I still will not be paying you real money for dilithium, period.
You have no proof to support it, you have no proof that it's going to stay stable on its own.
Dil is a virtual commodity; and being nothing more then data on a server, they can create as much of this "currency" as they wish; and whenever they wish. And in this case it is very much in their best interests/profitable to do so.
With a considerably higher demand on Dil resources in S7; and a shorter supply of willing sellers; in a normal economy this results in a "sellers market" where players selling Dil have many other players all competing to buy their Dil; which drives the Zen-to-Dil price down.
The lower the exchange price for Zen goes, the less players will be willing to buy Zen to sell. I believe the bottom of the Dil-to-Zen market is 50-to-1? You will have a lot less players willing to buy 160 Zen to sell in exchange for 8K dil, then you will find willing to buy 32 zen and selling for 8K dil at a 250-to-1 exchange price.
Creating Dil to keep the Zen exchange high is a very savy business decision; and puts more money in their pockets. If they are not doing it now; I can guarantee they will do this to prevent the market from crashing.
And I fully do believe they are currently propping up the exchange currently. I find it a little odd that at times the exchange creeps up to a point where there can be as much, or more then 300,000 sitting in the exchange no-one is buying; then in a matter of hours; it all sells. In the last month; prices have not fluxuated more then 2 points either way. This level and time of considerable stability is exceptionally unusual in comparison to how wildly the exchange would fluxuate previously; sometimes up/down 10-15 points inside of a day.
When a system this volitile suddenly becomes stable; I am thinking it is being acted upon by an outside force to create this stability. It is but an opinion; but a logical one.
Dil is a virtual commodity; and being nothing more then data on a server, they can create as much of this "currency" as they wish; and whenever they wish. And in this case it is very much in their best interests/profitable to do so.
With a considerably higher demand on Dil resources in S7; and a shorter supply of willing sellers; in a normal economy this results in a "sellers market" where players selling Dil have many other players all competing to buy their Dil; which drives the Zen-to-Dil price down.
The lower the exchange price for Zen goes, the less players will be willing to buy Zen to sell. I believe the bottom of the Dil-to-Zen market is 50-to-1? You will have a lot less players willing to buy 160 Zen to sell in exchange for 8K dil, then you will find willing to buy 32 zen and selling for 8K dil at a 250-to-1 exchange price.
Creating Dil to keep the Zen exchange high is a very savy business decision; and puts more money in their pockets. If they are not doing it now; I can guarantee they will do this to prevent the market from crashing.
And I fully do believe they are currently propping up the exchange currently. I find it a little odd that at times the exchange creeps up to a point where there can be as much, or more then 300,000 sitting in the exchange no-one is buying; then in a matter of hours; it all sells. In the last month; prices have not fluxuated more then 2 points either way. This level and time of considerable stability is exceptionally unusual in comparison to how wildly the exchange would fluxuate previously; sometimes up/down 10-15 points inside of a day.
When a system this volitile suddenly becomes stable; I am thinking it is being acted upon by an outside force to create this stability. It is but an opinion; but a logical one.
Ah yes; the time-tested "No Proof" arguement; the main defence of the closed mind since the time of Plato
Seeing that providing proof in this matter would involve:
A) PWE/Cryptic admitting they are manipulating the market (I find this quite unlikely) or
Someone hacks into PWE/Cryptics system for the evidence, then uploads it to the forums (I find this equally unlikely)
...then all we are left with is conjecture, circumstantial evidence and logic to work with.
I believe I have made as good a case as one can as to how and why it is in their best interest to manipulate the market; if you can come up with an equally valid points as to why they would not do this; I guarantee I will give it full consideration.
Ah yes; the time-tested "No Proof" arguement; the main defence of the closed mind since the time of Plato
Seeing that providing proof in this matter would involve:
A) PWE/Cryptic admitting they are manipulating the market (I find this quite unlikely) or
Someone hacks into PWE/Cryptics system for the evidence, then uploads it to the forums (I find this equally unlikely)
...then all we are left with is conjecture, circumstantial evidence and logic to work with.
I believe I have made as good a case as one can as to how and why it is in their best interest to manipulate the market; if you can come up with an equally valid points as to why they would not do this; I guarantee I will give it full consideration.
Exactly you can't get proof so you can throw in all the theories you want, but it does not make it true. it's all speculation.
There is a reason since the days of Plato people ask for proof, and not take someone's word on faith. it takes a very open minded person to question someone who says 'trust me, take my word, I won't lead you wrong"
you don't have any knowledge on what players are using, and how much they are playing and what they are saving. you can't sit there and speculate and say well i have no proof but if the market does not crash then Cryptic is intervening.
you also don't know how S7 will effect the game till it's on holodeck. all it is are guesses, but no one will know till some time after.
Have you heard the term "Inference"
"is the act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true. "
It is used in court every day - to drawn conclusions - based on speculation which is usually based on observations - not necessarily directly related to the case in question.
From my obervations - based on observations of the way markets work - studing economics and watching and listening to player behaviour - I am infering that Cryptic could very well be supporting the market artificially.
I can also infer - based on known reduction to dilthium production and the increase in known dilthium required items in season 7 - in a market where things are not manipulated - the item in less supply - in this case dilthium will go up in value related to its correlated offsetting currency - in this case Zen.
If there is no drastic increase in demand for Zen - which after Vesta sales dwindle is most likely the case - the amount of dilthium per Zen should plummet.
This is what is called a Logical Inference.
And I will leave it at that - because at this point i feel like deleting everything I just typed because this conversation is purely academic. The price will be what it will be - the only one who has any real control over it is Cryptic - hence the circle of my argument comes back to the beginning.
I love this game - I really really Love STO - none - absolutely none of these changes will force me to leave - 3000 hrs in and I still want to stay knowing all this stuff but..
over the next 3 weeks there will be 2 single player games coming that will be vying for my attention big-time:
Hitman Absolution is just over a week away - then 2 weeks after that the next monster of amazing - supposedly jaw-dropping fantastic open world game - Far Cry 3 comes out.
STO will always have my heart - but for the next few months it won't be getting as much of my time.
I'm....not even sure what to say to this one Levi. Changing the ole Foundry exploit...I didn't agree about it, but I could understand it.
This, to me, isn't so much problem of them removing the Dil from the mission, it's the fact that it's yet ANOTHER dilithium change, after so many we've had, mostly in hitting how we get it.
I made a thread, you remember it Levi, about how dilithium farming was possibly 'skewing' results on what Cryptic thought the average player was doing each day. It appears that has come to pass in a way, because we see all these changes happening to dilithium gathering.
Unfortunately, it seems to hurt more the general playerbase than dil farmers. Dil farmers, especially bots or just folks with a LOT of alts are going to do as I see them do in any MMO:
They will be like the Borg, and adapt.
'Changing the rules' on the Foundry daily might stop a lot, but farmers and such are just going to adjust accordingly. Maybe no more console clickers, but still simple, easy missions.
By the time they remove any possible exploit of dilithium, there might not be any dilithium left to gather.
So the B'tran hit is just the most current incarnation of a greater, wider problem.
I don't wanna say more, because I am getting quite off topic from this subject.
Some more direct thoughts on this:
B'tran daily and Explore Strange New Worlds...2,880 dil a day if you did them together, almost 2900 dil from 2 missions, or roughly a third of your daily cap. Still pretty good though. Exploit or not (how CAN that be an exploit short of just not liking a two-completed missions things?), it's gone, fine.
I think part of my beef with it is...ok, it's gone, and in return we get...?
Sure that sounds naive on my part, but to me, it makes sense. If they take away a dilithium source, what do we get in return for it? I don't mean like story missions or something, but how will this cut here, be adjusted accordingly elsewhere in game?
Like they cut out the B'tran daily, will say...rep item costs get reduced a little across the board, or Starbases not need quite as much dil, or something else?
I'd even accept just a clear, direct REASON they tell us it's happening. Like, say tomorrow we read, 'B'tran cluster has no dil rewards, but will have an updated reward in the future'. That might not make people happy, but at least we'd have a reason.
Instead, all I see is them taking, and giving nothing back. Perhaps this is harsh, but there is a word for that: Thievery.
Now I've rambled on enough, mods/devs, feel free to edit out anything that doesn't suit your fancy, I'm generally the type to stand by quite well, regardless of changes, trying to be positive about something, but it's REALLY hard to do so sometimes.
Anywho, time for this post to get lost amongst the others that are sure to come by the time I check the forums tomorrow.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I did post that idea and the 2nd purpose of my console clickers being remove thread from the last 2 weeks:
The hope that once the dilthium super farmers are removed and there is a big drop off in dilthium generated - Cryptic will get new data and then adjust dilthium requirements accordingly - lower would be best!!
The thing is because of stockpiles from last minute cashout of STF stuff and super spamming STF's right now(for Infected elite its like a 24hr a day 15+ in the Q) it will take some time for the dust to settle and they get a accurate picture of what the player base is really generating under the new systems.
I said before in that thread after the announcement and in a few other threads - that because of this lag in dilth data - players need to give Cryptic the benefit of time - I still have confidence that if Mr Stahl sees a big drop off in Dilthium generated he will move quickly to lower the requirements for gear/bases etc - I fear if he does not then season 7 will wear off quickly and many players may give up. I don't want that to happen.
If he is out there listening to me again - as he has before about removing the 1st place double rewards prize that would have killed teamwork in this game - I would strongly urge him to make a Blog post or some sort of statment indicating that he is aware of the concerns and will be closely monitoring the situation over the coming weeks and will be quick to move in addressing the dilthium requirements issue as soon as the data become more clear. It would be the best thing to do to lesson some of the anger and encourage players to give Cryptic time to adjust.
The 3 console mission click to complete removal Fine. It wasnt quite the way the system was intended for.
But from what I hear from some of my fleet mates on the Tribble the requirements for making a mission eligible is a bit absurd.
And if its going to be like the New dailies in the new sector is it going to be based on expertise gained? Because I gotta tell ya thats probably one mission I've never gonna do if I have to start playing 3 multi hour missions just to get it fulfilled.
As for the B'tran removal:
Why?
2880 is 36 percent of your refining cap. And?
Is this supposed to make it harder to hit refining cap? For one this only hurts people who cant/dont/want to play as often.
For two the people already hitting refining cap are still going to keep hitting refining cap.
This does nothing but hurt other people.
And for that matter so what if people are hitting refining cap. With so many new dilithium sinks I think thats the only way to get any sense of progression.
No one likes to come up to a screen and go "sigh... Only 400k more dilith in this project. Woopee."
My fleet is a pretty medium sized fleet but ******n the small fleets are going to be shafted on this one.
This is exactly what i keep saying, the smaller fleets with small groups of friends, 8-12 players are the ones who will be royally shafted the most, with the removal of these dil rewards which is outrageous tbh. Too many dil sinks as it is in S7 and no way to get dil without playing for about 6 hours to get the same rewards, sorry, some of us have jobs and can only play a few hours a day!!
Congratulations Cryptic on ruining the game for the casual player and first timer, as the grind level you have added is now the most ridiculous i have ever seen in ANY game i have ever played. Give yourselves a pat on the back...:mad:
Founder of the 3rd Foot & Mouth Federation Fleet. Join today!
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts! Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible! The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
Myself (9 characters) and my nephew (1) have let our micro fleet idle for a third day.
I'd sure love to know the exact explanation, fly on the wall style, for all these cuts.
Given their extreme lack of communication on this topic (cowardly and unprofessional as it is), our only option as customers is to image the most depraved, evil reason for doing this and accept that is true.
Ya know i wish i could say i am surprised but im not, all i can say is just keep cutting out dilithium all you want cause your not going to make me buy dilirhium with zen, i will do without, If you keep on your gonna run even more people away from the game, if your smart you will leave the dilithium on Btran on holodeck , and what ever happen to back not long ago when Dsthal was invervirew he said they where looking for ways to help out smaller fleets, cutting al this dilithium does nothing but harm them,
As much as I agree with you guys saying
" don't remove ways to get dilitium" ..
there is one thing I would like to mention besides:
People always say " Listen DEVs" or "Attention DEVs"
..followed by doom and bad language.
A developer most of the time is a creative guy,
staring at the screen most of his lifetime.
He consumes unhealthy food, stayes more hours in
his office than at home per week, and is close to a
total burn-out every morning he has to get up again.
He creates ships or haircuts or UI or whatever!
Those who said
"get more focus on the zen and the economy - increase income"
are the new owners who maybe never played one of the games
they own, maybe they never heared the word "B-Tran" nor do
they know that there are broken consoles to repairand why.
He types orders into an email and sends them to Cryptic.
The devs have the order to lower the ingame dilitium
by factor x until date x, they all first facepalm and then
have a look at the data - what could be an exploid or
what missions most players stay away from - then
maybe Dan decides what has do be done - already
knowing that half the forum community will hate him for this.
You know...I am glad to be a player and not a dev ..
I could say STOP anytime without risking my income and career.
and what ever happen to back not long ago when Dsthal was invervirew he said they where looking for ways to help out smaller fleets, cutting al this dilithium does nothing but harm them,
PWE Owns Cryptic. I played another PWE game before, PWI, and at that game end gear costs $, BIG $$, as in $1,400 per full set per toon, killer pets costs $200+, cosmetic cloths are sold by pieces (shoes= $5, shirt=$5-$10, etc), $1 could buy you around 1 million game coins and drops per mob were around 5-500 game coins. If you F2P you could level to 80 in around 5 months playing full time (6-8 hours a day) or you could pay around $75 to get to 80 in day and a half...
Yep, STO is heading that way
Keep Vulcan Boob Chick, only baktag likes to stare at guys in MMOs
Seems like PvP is the last reliable source of dilithium. I wonder when that will be removed as well and the players who are still left in pvp community move somewhere else.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The b'tran one is really just the straw that broke the camels back.
on the surface i can actually agree with its removal. by using strange new worlds you get double 1440 for doing one set which means there is no reason to do any daily explore cluster other than b'tran. its not working as they intended it and it damages the other clusters. fine, i get that.
what the problem is that it would not have killed them to add another dilithium source to compensate for its removal as dilithium is hard enough to come by and all the sinks are eating it up. this is on top of all the totally unnecessary nerfs to stf's, and the lack of new ways on new romulus.
ive said in other threads, dilithium is no longer a time based currency (it was borderline before). change it so every mission offers a small amount and let people gain their dilithium by any mission, in any way they please so that time spent in game truly rewards people.
Lol, you honestly think CBS cares about anything but the money they are very likely getting themselves?
Yes. This is what's called a reputational risk. The longer PWE annoy the playerbase, the greater the risk that the ST franchise will be cheapened.
Right now a lot of the players being annoyed are the hard core trek fans. Those who only have a passing interest will just leave the game when it becomes too rediculous. Hard core fans will stay with the ship till it sinks. These are the same fans who drop a lot of discretionary income into the franchises pockets.
Take the new movies for example, they will eventually fail, either through the next one not being as popular as the previous or from the movies being churned out continually when they really should have stopped while at the top. As soon as something fails, people want to point fingers and PWE is setting itself up nicely as the fall guy.
So to those thinking old Yak's lost it. Let's do a hypothetical, no need to reply, simply answer it for yourself. If I clicked my fingers Q style and said "ST:O2 is coming out Tuesday. It'll be subscription only, you can buy a lifetime for $299 or one month for $10" How many of us would really jump in with a lifetime sub, how many who would have previously will now give it a second thought? How many who would normally play from day 1 will now wait 3 months to see how things are going?
This is an example of how the brand has been tarnished and will continue to be tarnished unless something changes.
Too many dil sinks as it is in S7 and no way to get dil without playing for about 6 hours to get the same rewards, sorry, some of us have jobs and can only play a few hours a day!!
This is my biggest concern,.. cus I am in that category.
I cannot play hours of STO and I still want to be able to make progress and enjoy STO.
Removing one-clicks I understand, however I would instead of 3 missions in that daily just have people do one missions instead - then its more reasonable for the player to actually achieve that daily + you would see more people actually playing foundry missions.
TBran --- I am sad. Its one of the few I actually enjoy. I can honestly say I did not know you could double like that.. but still... I think it should stay. Yes, its simpler than most.. but for those that are not professional STO players.. we need that.
A lot of the projects ahead costs a lot of dilithium... as a causal player its difficult to enjoy i when you find yourself that you have to grind to actually get somewhere. I joined STO because of the storyline.. and actually being able to do missions. Of course I want to obtain the best sets I can with my ability.. now it will become even more difficult.
I truly hope the STO staff consider what is suggested here:
If they want people to play other content in-game then why not add a wrapper mission, like Strange New Worlds, but for completing an entire featured episode series? Have the reward be attractive, but not out of line for the amount of time needed to complete the five or so missions in them. At least that way they're diverting players to the better content in STO.
The b'tran one is really just the straw that broke the camels back.
on the surface i can actually agree with its removal. by using strange new worlds you get double 1440 for doing one set which means there is no reason to do any daily explore cluster other than b'tran. its not working as they intended it and it damages the other clusters. fine, i get that.
what the problem is that it would not have killed them to add another dilithium source to compensate for its removal as dilithium is hard enough to come by and all the sinks are eating it up. this is on top of all the totally unnecessary nerfs to stf's, and the lack of new ways on new romulus.
ive said in other threads, dilithium is no longer a time based currency (it was borderline before). change it so every mission offers a small amount and let people gain their dilithium by any mission, in any way they please so that time spent in game truly rewards people.
Spread the word among your friends and fellow players. ... Help draw attention to this growing problem.
Wow, it looks even worse than I had imagined it. I fear for the forums when this season goes live. People are not going to be happy. At least we can mentally prepare for it; other's won't be so fortunate.
Comments
you don't have any knowledge on what players are using, and how much they are playing and what they are saving. you can't sit there and speculate and say well i have no proof but if the market does not crash then Cryptic is intervening.
you also don't know how S7 will effect the game till it's on holodeck. all it is are guesses, but no one will know till some time after.
No matter how many mission rewards you remove and how high you jack up dilithium prices, I still will not be paying you real money for dilithium, period.
That is all.
Dil is a virtual commodity; and being nothing more then data on a server, they can create as much of this "currency" as they wish; and whenever they wish. And in this case it is very much in their best interests/profitable to do so.
With a considerably higher demand on Dil resources in S7; and a shorter supply of willing sellers; in a normal economy this results in a "sellers market" where players selling Dil have many other players all competing to buy their Dil; which drives the Zen-to-Dil price down.
The lower the exchange price for Zen goes, the less players will be willing to buy Zen to sell. I believe the bottom of the Dil-to-Zen market is 50-to-1? You will have a lot less players willing to buy 160 Zen to sell in exchange for 8K dil, then you will find willing to buy 32 zen and selling for 8K dil at a 250-to-1 exchange price.
Creating Dil to keep the Zen exchange high is a very savy business decision; and puts more money in their pockets. If they are not doing it now; I can guarantee they will do this to prevent the market from crashing.
And I fully do believe they are currently propping up the exchange currently. I find it a little odd that at times the exchange creeps up to a point where there can be as much, or more then 300,000 sitting in the exchange no-one is buying; then in a matter of hours; it all sells. In the last month; prices have not fluxuated more then 2 points either way. This level and time of considerable stability is exceptionally unusual in comparison to how wildly the exchange would fluxuate previously; sometimes up/down 10-15 points inside of a day.
When a system this volitile suddenly becomes stable; I am thinking it is being acted upon by an outside force to create this stability. It is but an opinion; but a logical one.
once again no proof
Seeing that providing proof in this matter would involve:
A) PWE/Cryptic admitting they are manipulating the market (I find this quite unlikely) or
...then all we are left with is conjecture, circumstantial evidence and logic to work with.
I believe I have made as good a case as one can as to how and why it is in their best interest to manipulate the market; if you can come up with an equally valid points as to why they would not do this; I guarantee I will give it full consideration.
Exactly you can't get proof so you can throw in all the theories you want, but it does not make it true. it's all speculation.
There is a reason since the days of Plato people ask for proof, and not take someone's word on faith. it takes a very open minded person to question someone who says 'trust me, take my word, I won't lead you wrong"
Have you heard the term "Inference"
"is the act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true. "
It is used in court every day - to drawn conclusions - based on speculation which is usually based on observations - not necessarily directly related to the case in question.
From my obervations - based on observations of the way markets work - studing economics and watching and listening to player behaviour - I am infering that Cryptic could very well be supporting the market artificially.
I can also infer - based on known reduction to dilthium production and the increase in known dilthium required items in season 7 - in a market where things are not manipulated - the item in less supply - in this case dilthium will go up in value related to its correlated offsetting currency - in this case Zen.
If there is no drastic increase in demand for Zen - which after Vesta sales dwindle is most likely the case - the amount of dilthium per Zen should plummet.
This is what is called a Logical Inference.
And I will leave it at that - because at this point i feel like deleting everything I just typed because this conversation is purely academic. The price will be what it will be - the only one who has any real control over it is Cryptic - hence the circle of my argument comes back to the beginning.
Man this hurts my brain:P
They want to herd us to the adventure zones and I at least hope this is the first step to re-vamp the Explore clusters.
over the next 3 weeks there will be 2 single player games coming that will be vying for my attention big-time:
Hitman Absolution is just over a week away - then 2 weeks after that the next monster of amazing - supposedly jaw-dropping fantastic open world game - Far Cry 3 comes out.
STO will always have my heart - but for the next few months it won't be getting as much of my time.
This, to me, isn't so much problem of them removing the Dil from the mission, it's the fact that it's yet ANOTHER dilithium change, after so many we've had, mostly in hitting how we get it.
I made a thread, you remember it Levi, about how dilithium farming was possibly 'skewing' results on what Cryptic thought the average player was doing each day. It appears that has come to pass in a way, because we see all these changes happening to dilithium gathering.
Unfortunately, it seems to hurt more the general playerbase than dil farmers. Dil farmers, especially bots or just folks with a LOT of alts are going to do as I see them do in any MMO:
They will be like the Borg, and adapt.
'Changing the rules' on the Foundry daily might stop a lot, but farmers and such are just going to adjust accordingly. Maybe no more console clickers, but still simple, easy missions.
By the time they remove any possible exploit of dilithium, there might not be any dilithium left to gather.
So the B'tran hit is just the most current incarnation of a greater, wider problem.
I don't wanna say more, because I am getting quite off topic from this subject.
Some more direct thoughts on this:
B'tran daily and Explore Strange New Worlds...2,880 dil a day if you did them together, almost 2900 dil from 2 missions, or roughly a third of your daily cap. Still pretty good though. Exploit or not (how CAN that be an exploit short of just not liking a two-completed missions things?), it's gone, fine.
I think part of my beef with it is...ok, it's gone, and in return we get...?
Sure that sounds naive on my part, but to me, it makes sense. If they take away a dilithium source, what do we get in return for it? I don't mean like story missions or something, but how will this cut here, be adjusted accordingly elsewhere in game?
Like they cut out the B'tran daily, will say...rep item costs get reduced a little across the board, or Starbases not need quite as much dil, or something else?
I'd even accept just a clear, direct REASON they tell us it's happening. Like, say tomorrow we read, 'B'tran cluster has no dil rewards, but will have an updated reward in the future'. That might not make people happy, but at least we'd have a reason.
Instead, all I see is them taking, and giving nothing back. Perhaps this is harsh, but there is a word for that: Thievery.
Now I've rambled on enough, mods/devs, feel free to edit out anything that doesn't suit your fancy, I'm generally the type to stand by quite well, regardless of changes, trying to be positive about something, but it's REALLY hard to do so sometimes.
Anywho, time for this post to get lost amongst the others that are sure to come by the time I check the forums tomorrow.
The hope that once the dilthium super farmers are removed and there is a big drop off in dilthium generated - Cryptic will get new data and then adjust dilthium requirements accordingly - lower would be best!!
The thing is because of stockpiles from last minute cashout of STF stuff and super spamming STF's right now(for Infected elite its like a 24hr a day 15+ in the Q) it will take some time for the dust to settle and they get a accurate picture of what the player base is really generating under the new systems.
I said before in that thread after the announcement and in a few other threads - that because of this lag in dilth data - players need to give Cryptic the benefit of time - I still have confidence that if Mr Stahl sees a big drop off in Dilthium generated he will move quickly to lower the requirements for gear/bases etc - I fear if he does not then season 7 will wear off quickly and many players may give up. I don't want that to happen.
If he is out there listening to me again - as he has before about removing the 1st place double rewards prize that would have killed teamwork in this game - I would strongly urge him to make a Blog post or some sort of statment indicating that he is aware of the concerns and will be closely monitoring the situation over the coming weeks and will be quick to move in addressing the dilthium requirements issue as soon as the data become more clear. It would be the best thing to do to lesson some of the anger and encourage players to give Cryptic time to adjust.
I am by no means a "hardcore" player, and I play B'tran.
But from what I hear from some of my fleet mates on the Tribble the requirements for making a mission eligible is a bit absurd.
And if its going to be like the New dailies in the new sector is it going to be based on expertise gained? Because I gotta tell ya thats probably one mission I've never gonna do if I have to start playing 3 multi hour missions just to get it fulfilled.
As for the B'tran removal:
Why?
2880 is 36 percent of your refining cap. And?
Is this supposed to make it harder to hit refining cap? For one this only hurts people who cant/dont/want to play as often.
For two the people already hitting refining cap are still going to keep hitting refining cap.
This does nothing but hurt other people.
And for that matter so what if people are hitting refining cap. With so many new dilithium sinks I think thats the only way to get any sense of progression.
No one likes to come up to a screen and go "sigh... Only 400k more dilith in this project. Woopee."
My fleet is a pretty medium sized fleet but ******n the small fleets are going to be shafted on this one.
Congratulations Cryptic on ruining the game for the casual player and first timer, as the grind level you have added is now the most ridiculous i have ever seen in ANY game i have ever played. Give yourselves a pat on the back...:mad:
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts!
Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible!
The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
I'd sure love to know the exact explanation, fly on the wall style, for all these cuts.
Is it the scourge of professional currency sellers? Coming from FFXI I'm used to being punished right along with the botters, didn't like it though.
Is Jeremy still alive? Help us understand Tron. Why am I bad for accruing dilithium to dump into my starbase?
Given their extreme lack of communication on this topic (cowardly and unprofessional as it is), our only option as customers is to image the most depraved, evil reason for doing this and accept that is true.
" don't remove ways to get dilitium" ..
there is one thing I would like to mention besides:
People always say " Listen DEVs" or "Attention DEVs"
..followed by doom and bad language.
A developer most of the time is a creative guy,
staring at the screen most of his lifetime.
He consumes unhealthy food, stayes more hours in
his office than at home per week, and is close to a
total burn-out every morning he has to get up again.
He creates ships or haircuts or UI or whatever!
Those who said
"get more focus on the zen and the economy - increase income"
are the new owners who maybe never played one of the games
they own, maybe they never heared the word "B-Tran" nor do
they know that there are broken consoles to repairand why.
He types orders into an email and sends them to Cryptic.
The devs have the order to lower the ingame dilitium
by factor x until date x, they all first facepalm and then
have a look at the data - what could be an exploid or
what missions most players stay away from - then
maybe Dan decides what has do be done - already
knowing that half the forum community will hate him for this.
You know...I am glad to be a player and not a dev ..
I could say STOP anytime without risking my income and career.
ITS NOT THE DEVS!
we'll adapt captains
Developers lie all the time.
Yep, STO is heading that way
on the surface i can actually agree with its removal. by using strange new worlds you get double 1440 for doing one set which means there is no reason to do any daily explore cluster other than b'tran. its not working as they intended it and it damages the other clusters. fine, i get that.
what the problem is that it would not have killed them to add another dilithium source to compensate for its removal as dilithium is hard enough to come by and all the sinks are eating it up. this is on top of all the totally unnecessary nerfs to stf's, and the lack of new ways on new romulus.
ive said in other threads, dilithium is no longer a time based currency (it was borderline before). change it so every mission offers a small amount and let people gain their dilithium by any mission, in any way they please so that time spent in game truly rewards people.
Yes. This is what's called a reputational risk. The longer PWE annoy the playerbase, the greater the risk that the ST franchise will be cheapened.
Right now a lot of the players being annoyed are the hard core trek fans. Those who only have a passing interest will just leave the game when it becomes too rediculous. Hard core fans will stay with the ship till it sinks. These are the same fans who drop a lot of discretionary income into the franchises pockets.
Take the new movies for example, they will eventually fail, either through the next one not being as popular as the previous or from the movies being churned out continually when they really should have stopped while at the top. As soon as something fails, people want to point fingers and PWE is setting itself up nicely as the fall guy.
So to those thinking old Yak's lost it. Let's do a hypothetical, no need to reply, simply answer it for yourself. If I clicked my fingers Q style and said "ST:O2 is coming out Tuesday. It'll be subscription only, you can buy a lifetime for $299 or one month for $10" How many of us would really jump in with a lifetime sub, how many who would have previously will now give it a second thought? How many who would normally play from day 1 will now wait 3 months to see how things are going?
This is an example of how the brand has been tarnished and will continue to be tarnished unless something changes.
This is my biggest concern,.. cus I am in that category.
I cannot play hours of STO and I still want to be able to make progress and enjoy STO.
Removing one-clicks I understand, however I would instead of 3 missions in that daily just have people do one missions instead - then its more reasonable for the player to actually achieve that daily + you would see more people actually playing foundry missions.
TBran --- I am sad. Its one of the few I actually enjoy. I can honestly say I did not know you could double like that.. but still... I think it should stay. Yes, its simpler than most.. but for those that are not professional STO players.. we need that.
A lot of the projects ahead costs a lot of dilithium... as a causal player its difficult to enjoy i when you find yourself that you have to grind to actually get somewhere. I joined STO because of the storyline.. and actually being able to do missions. Of course I want to obtain the best sets I can with my ability.. now it will become even more difficult.
I truly hope the STO staff consider what is suggested here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=439961&page=1
There are some good and reasonable ideas that I think would level things out a bit more.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Yeap .. They do .... General Doff recruitment definitely has a 1,000 dilithium tax now.
Screen capture of the DOFF mission window.
https://twitter.com/PATHFINDER_KDF/status/267613609494994944/photo/1
Welcome to #DilithiumGate everyone.
Spread the word among your friends and fellow players. ... Help draw attention to this growing problem.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Very well said. .... +1
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Wow, it looks even worse than I had imagined it. I fear for the forums when this season goes live. People are not going to be happy. At least we can mentally prepare for it; other's won't be so fortunate.