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You guys are going to love this - Removed B'tran dilthium

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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    In that particular case Brandon - whose job it is to enforce violations of forum rules - only removed a post that was involing terms and words + suggestions of those words(adult themes) which are not allowed on the forums - he was not removing a opinion as to the new changes. So don't go accusing him of being some kind of "thought police".

    ummm, you might wanna re-read the first sentence of that levi...

    He WAS talking about our little sidetrack to Adult World...

    As in a Puritanical Edit...

    Young minds may have fresh ideas, but they better only be directed toward the matter at hand.

    This old mind, forgot his place.
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    vestereng wrote: »
    What exactly used to take place in B'tran ?

    And about the slavers I have yet to see them pull any dil. and they going to have to score 30,000 dil / 2000 dil per turn-in x 5 contrabands = 75 contrabands, assuming you get 1 contraband per 2 missions that's 150 missions before you even start making a profit, not exactly heavy duty in-come there is it :rolleyes:

    Lastly they openly said they want us playing fleet missions so it makes sense more and more stuff is getting cut, less is more ! :D

    /edit

    ps yes I have the advanced ones

    It amounted to what would be called Double Dipping, I guess...

    You could do both the B'Tran-VA Daily & Strange New Worlds at the same time, for a net gain of about 2800 Dilithium in one fell swoop.
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
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    levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    daveyny wrote: »
    It amounted to what would be called Double Dipping, I guess...

    You could do both the B'Tran-VA Daily & Strange New Worlds at the same time, for a net gain of about 2800 Dilithium in one fell swoop.

    With the KDF you can triple or quadurple dip - so what are you saying? The KDF side you can combine 4 dailies at the same time - but they nerf the double dip on the Fed side? That is your reasoning?
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    kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    With the KDF you can triple or quadurple dip - so what are you saying? The KDF side you can combine 4 dailies at the same time - but they nerf the double dip on the Fed side? That is your reasoning?

    maybe they are trying to force feds to play as a klingon?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
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    starkymanstarkyman Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    With the KDF you can triple or quadurple dip - so what are you saying? The KDF side you can combine 4 dailies at the same time - but they nerf the double dip on the Fed side? That is your reasoning?

    HA they take that away next and then the path of the worrier and a few more i can't spell. they don't like ppl fun on this game and just want 2 get are backs up it seems....
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I have a tough time sympathizing with the Feds on this one. Even if the KDF faction has 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 dilithium dailies, that's tough luck. We have less story content overall, as well as less costumes, hair, and uniform options. I don't even need to remind you how many times Feds dropped into the KDF sections to tell KDF whiners to shut up and/or quit the game if they disliked the current KDF content drought. Enough said.

    Edit: As DStahl says, you can either sit in the back eating cheerios while watching the dvd, or you can jump out of the car. No offense.
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    levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    I have a tough time sympathizing with the Feds on this one. Even if the KDF faction has 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 dilithium dailies, that's tough luck. We have less story content overall, as well as less costumes, hair, and uniform options. I don't even need to remind you how many times Feds dropped into the KDF sections to tell KDF whiners to shut up and/or quit the game if they disliked the current KDF content drought. Enough said.

    Edit: As DStahl says, you can either sit in the back eating cheerios watching a dvd, or you jump out of the car. No offense.

    Read my earlier post again about this issue:
    levi3 wrote: »
    Why do you think there have been 1000's of players rolling KDF toons since S6 launched - it is so much easier to exploit the systems in place on the KDF side. You are right - after this more and more will be flooding the KDF with it's MASSIVE dilthium grinding advantage -

    But this is BAD NEWS for the KDF as it will be filled with more players that don't care about the KDF - Cryptic will look at the raw numbers and say "Hey KDF pop has gone up 25% - but KDF purchases have gone no-where - so I guess KDF is a bust - no use spending more money there.

    This Is long-term BAD news for the KDF

    All around this is going to be a mess - so KDF players should be worried even if they are happy their multi -overlapping dilthium gathering methods don't get nerfed.
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    sahard00msahard00m Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    It is the grind itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will not reach our ultimate Tier 5 goal. The effort itself yields its own reward.
    Gene Roddenberry

    ...new edit, for a new time...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "I condemn false prophets, the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all."
    Gene Roddenberry (1921-1991)
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    Read my earlier post again about this issue:

    Not sure what you're trying to tell me levi. Are you trying to say that this game has turned into a giant dilithium rat race? So essentially, these people are only using KDF alts to collect dilithium, turning it into zen points, and then spending those zen points on their Fed mains? That's definitely a game I want to be part of.
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    vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    jexsamx wrote: »
    So it takes five minutes instead of two seconds to get the foundry daily now and they removed one lousy 1440dil source from one nebula.

    I kinda get it, I guess. That does slow things down a little and I suppose that could really upset people. Doesn't strike me as a necessary change either, really.

    But is this really that big a deal? "Ohhh nooo, now it's gonna take an eternity to farm with my eighteen toons!" doesn't strike me as a problem that warrants quite as much whining as this thread is generating.

    Looks like your talkin about the fix console foundry exploit here.

    I agree with you on this point. But correct me If I'm wrong, but the OP is referring to the "explore strange new worlds" daily that you can use along with the " vice admiral B'tran" dilthium dailies. Two legitimate and viable sources for obtaining dilithium. Take one away and you nerf the other.

    So, now not only have the dilithium rewards in the STFs been reduced, but stealthily, another legit dailies to obtain dilithium have been removed, all the while implementing new dilithium costs on obtaining doffs, which are required for Starbase, embassy and reputation progression.

    Sorry, but the screws are definitely being turned here to make season seven more profitable, either to sell more doffs, or more zen to convert to dilithium.

    I've got no problem with making things more profitable for Cryptic at all, with the provision that they make the game more entertaining for me.
    But I'm seeing a deliberate progression here to make the game more of a grind, in order to sell more products. Will this be entertaining?

    Does it go too far? I'm starting to think that for casual players like myself, it may.
    There's a whole lota new content that's gonna be locked behind dilithium.
    They may have removed the dilithium requirement in the rep progression, but if they've left the doff requirement in, dilithium's still gonna be in the equation, because they removed the free mission to get the general recruitment pack that was available every three days and new doffs are gonna require dilithium now.

    I hope that the fun things being introduced like exploring New Romulous, the salt vampires and the Vesta, (which we are paying a pretty penny for too), will offset the added grind.

    But what happens when the new content smell wears off after a month or so? Repeating missions over and over again gets old real fast, case in point the STFs, then we are left with simply more of a grind, or spend more money to buy things we don't really want, but need, or else you can forget about a growing portion of the new content. :(
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    qqqqiiqqqqii Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Business as usual, I see. Color me unsurprised.
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    dfawkesdfawkes Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I've generally not been one to complain, but this really does seem like an inadvisable way to deal with possible double dipping. Plus I don't feel it was much of a problem in the first place - there is a refinement limit in place to prevent it ever becoming a major issue, after all.

    It's not going to break anything, but it's very disappointing indeed.
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    chiisaumachiisauma Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I think Cryptic is seriously over-estimating players willingness to whip out their credit card every time they want something in Season 7. Doffs; that takes Dil. Starbases, need Dil; STF gear, needs Dil.

    Drastically increasing or adding new Dil requirements to things that previously had none; and reducing or removing several sources of Dil rewards may indeed make Cryptic money for a very short time; but eventually most players are going revolt at Crypic basically demanding you consistantly buy Zen to sell for Dil just to play STO Season 7.

    Players needing to prop up their credit cards on the side of their monitors every time they play STO for quick access is going to get very old, very quick for most of us.

    I have spent quite a bit on STO so far as a "free-to-play". 4 ships; and quite a lot of other C-store items. Buying a lifetime membership would have definately been a lot cheaper; but that is micro-transactions for you.

    And every purchase I was happy to make; because each time it was for something Cryptic offered that I wanted. Now; Cryptic is basically demanding that I now constantly need buy Zen by means of them reducing/removing ways to earn Dil in-game and greatly increasing the demands for Dil; while still capping a player at 8K a day; just to keep up with their new Dil sinks is NOT something I want or in any way will enjoy; and this leaves me seriously unimpressed with their game.

    I play STO for fun; and am quite happy to pay for having fun. Season 7 as it currently is; is so far removed from fun, that if the world of fun were to explode; the sound of that explosion would not be heard by Cryptic for 3 days :/ I will gladly support a game I enjoy; not one that mugs me in a back alley for the contents of my wallet and then puts me to work in a virtual version of a salt mine after for the privilege of being rolled by them.
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    badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I think this sums up how I feel.

    I am suffering from complaint fatigue. The have nerfed so many things, reduced Dil Payout and simultaneously increased Dil requirements for everything, they have also ignored us when we request that they put back in the number of people qued in the TSF/Fleet Action window.

    I am just...tired. So. Very. Tired.
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I think this sums up how I feel.

    I am suffering from complain fatigue. The have nerfed so many things, reduced Dil Payout and simultaneously increased Dil requirements for everything, they have also ignored us when we request that they put back in the number of people qued in the TSF/Fleet Action window.

    I am just...tired. So. Very. Tired.

    When almost everything is monetized, the transition from STO to FCO (Ferengi Capitalist Online) will be complete. Then, we'll just have to wait and see whether or not PWE really can take a western IPO and turn it into a true Asian grind-a-lot game. To me, the game is looking less and less star treky. There is less exploration, single player, and FE's. Now, the focus is on timed events, fleet events, and gathering as many resources as possible (mostly dilithium). Essentially, we're being turned into pseudo ferengi's. The only difference is that we don't have Ferengi skins. IMO, the 1500 day ship should be a special Ferengi marauder that creates dilithium when it activates a special Ferengi advanced slip stream drive. At least then we'd fit the bill a little better.
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    atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I am suffering from complain fatigue. The have nerfed so many things, reduced Dil Payout and simultaneously increased Dil requirements for everything, they have also ignored us when we request that they put back in the number of people qued in the TSF/Fleet Action window.

    Because you feel like you're talking to a wall? I know.

    Cryptic is not only being cowardly about this, they're being extremely unprofessional. By not communicating why -- even if the reason is "our PWE masters are making us" -- they only increase customer anger. I've seen this happen before, and things will get ugly for them.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
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    yakumosmithyakumosmith Member Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I played Eve online for 5 years and it took them 4 years to turn me into a bitter player.

    Congrats PWE, you've managed to get me to that stage in 2 months. The way this game is being handled is diminishing the value of the Star Trek franchise. Let's hope CBS doesn't find out and send the goons round to cause you problems.
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    lucianazetalucianazeta Member Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I played Eve online for 5 years and it took them 4 years to turn me into a bitter player.

    Congrats PWE, you've managed to get me to that stage in 2 months. The way this game is being handled is diminishing the value of the Star Trek franchise. Let's hope CBS doesn't find out and send the goons round to cause you problems.

    Lol, you honestly think CBS cares about anything but the money they are very likely getting themselves?
    STO%20Sig.png~original
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    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    OK. Replace it with another reward. How about... 50 Omega Marks. It is Borg space, after all, with a high chance of encountering them.
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    manzorianmanzorian Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I wish people would STOP saying Cryptic is responsible for this. Cryptic doesn't exist anymore. It was purchased & absorbed by Perfect World Entertainment.

    All these changes are clearly driven by PWE & it's drive to make player spend real cash. The sooner people realize this & know that it will NEVER change, the easier it's to let go & move on.
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    bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    manzorian wrote: »
    I wish people would STOP saying Cryptic is responsible for this. Cryptic doesn't exist anymore. It was purchased & absorbed by Perfect World Entertainment.

    All these changes are clearly driven by PWE & it's drive to make player spend real cash. The sooner people realize this & know that it will NEVER change, the easier it's to let go & move on.

    And that is the best part.

    Who on earth is going to sell a zen for the 80-100 dil that the market is soon going to nosedive too in a month or so? This is going to cost them sales.

    Here is a better way to put it. The type of person who is willing to grind in game to buy zen off other people are not very likely to either open up their wallet nor to stop if it takes them too long to get the zen. But the person who is spending the zen for the dil to buy the gear IS going to stop if that gear becomes too expensive. Or atleast more likely.
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    stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I can't say that this will affect me, as I haven't even progressed that far into the campaign with any of my characters whereby Chart the B'tran cluster has become available. That said, it does seem arbitrary.
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Lol, you honestly think CBS cares about anything but the money they are very likely getting themselves?


    If it could potentially ruin profits from future star-trek movies and t.v. series, you bet your behind they will.
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    levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    bareel wrote: »
    And that is the best part.

    Who on earth is going to sell a zen for the 80-100 dil that the market is soon going to nosedive too in a month or so? This is going to cost them sales.

    Here is a better way to put it. The type of person who is willing to grind in game to buy zen off other people are not very likely to either open up their wallet nor to stop if it takes them too long to get the zen. But the person who is spending the zen for the dil to buy the gear IS going to stop if that gear becomes too expensive. Or atleast more likely.

    If you think that Cryptic is not in the market already for the last few months keeping in stable in the 150's - you have not been around that long. The price of dilthium used to swing widely on a daily bases - people would play the dilth market to increase their dilth holdings. That has effectively ended. Of course they have not said that they are intervening - but one thing will confirm it - if season 7 goes live and the price does not plunge to below 120 pretty quickly after Vesta sales taper off - then guareenteed they are supporting it - which i believe they will continue to do.
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    skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I could turn STO around without zero EP experience just buy going for an honest pricing model that doesnt chew you up and spit you out in 3 months or less. But if they want to live by the quick greed they can die a quicker death. The US is NOT China. I dont doubt they are trying to kill STO because thry are realizing STO is too American and the Chinese sucker model wont work here.

    That's just it though. STO and CO are just their way of gaining metrics into HOW to fit their model in the western markets. It STO and CO die its not a big deal to them. Their revenues won't be hugely impacted, and the market research data they get from it is invaluable. Think about it, they get to experiment to their heart's content without having to worry about ruining a pre existing cash cow for them.
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    neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    levi3 wrote: »
    If you think that Cryptic is not in the market already for the last few months keeping in stable in the 150's - you have not been around that long. The price of dilthium used to swing widely on a daily bases - people would play the dilth market to increase their dilth holdings. That has effectively ended. Of course they have not said that they are intervening - but one thing will confirm it - if season 7 goes live and the price does not plunge to below 120 pretty quickly after Vesta sales taper off - then guareenteed they are supporting it - which i believe they will continue to do.

    You have no proof to support it, you have no proof that it's going to stay stable on its own.
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    skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I was thinking the same thing. It is such a lazy way to get people to play the KDF though... it is pretty much forcing people to play as KDF, it would be better to have people want to play as the KDF for their own reasons, not because it is the only way a fed player can gain a little extra dilithium.

    But it fits their MO perfectly. They want us to play things other than STFs so they nerf STF rewards. Its all about forcing players to behave in a way they are told will generate more income.
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    But it fits their MO perfectly. They want us to play things other than STFs so they nerf STF rewards. Its all about forcing players to behave in a way they are told will generate more income.

    Is that because we are earning less dilithium so we'll be forced to buy more zen points and then convert them into dil.? It's not like fleet actions are going to keep people hooked on the game for very long if that's where the highest dilithium rewards are going to be. Weird.
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    levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    You have no proof to support it, you have no proof that it's going to stay stable on its own.

    Supply and demand will always tell the tale of manipulation or not. I have no proof that they are doing it - it's opinion based on being involved in stock markets for 20+ years and watching the dilthium market for almost a year. Like I said - they have never said they were doing it - although lately I don't think they have said they weren't doing it.

    One thing is clear - dilthium supply come next week is going to start dropping with all the new sinks and all the dilthium nerfs and removals

    Lots of supply of dilth and less demand of Zen after the Vesta launches and the Doff pack sale ends = a lower price on dilth per Zen - that's how a market which is not supported artificially works.

    Unless you have some knowledge of why lots of people will be buying Zen or somehow making up for all the dilthium nerfs - would suddenly happen?
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    skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    I have a tough time sympathizing with the Feds on this one. Even if the KDF faction has 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 dilithium dailies, that's tough luck. We have less story content overall, as well as less costumes, hair, and uniform options. I don't even need to remind you how many times Feds dropped into the KDF sections to tell KDF whiners to shut up and/or quit the game if they disliked the current KDF content drought. Enough said.

    Edit: As DStahl says, you can either sit in the back eating cheerios while watching the dvd, or you can jump out of the car. No offense.

    You are taking out your frustrations on the wrong people. Its not the fed player's fault they prefer the show's main faction over what was alternatively space barbarians or space samurai with an extra twisted code of honor. At the same time, its not the KDF player's fault either. The truth is that non fed factions will always be less popular because of the nature of the show so in Cryptic's eyes they can't justify fleshing out the KDF. That's a business decision they made, for good or ill.

    The REAL problem is that they lied about the KDF getting fleshed out eventually. THAT is where all the resentment stems from. Had they said from the beginning "KDF is monster play, they are a pvp faction, they are not getting any more unique content" none of this would be causing such resentment. But they lied, and to make up for it they give the KDF a lot of advantages. Some are pretty big, others are minor, but they cause resentment all the same.
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