No one is ignoring feedback. Season 7 isn't fully on TRIBBLE yet - we are letting you know ahead of time about changes coming so that we can gather feedback.
But I would hardly call some of the comments in this thread as feedback, it is more like personal threats or bashing me - to which I say - ok I get it - there is frustration - but the game will go on and we will continue to improve.
That does not rule out changes that might be made based on feedback, it just says hate me all you want. I can take it. I have the benefit of seeing the reality behind the scenes to know the truth that the game is doing really well.
At the end of the day, this team cares about STO and still spend many hours a day working to make it better and more fun for everyone. Not everyone has the same play style or the same feedback. We have to weigh everything and make a measure and calculated decision. So far we've done pretty good if you go by the success of the game versus how some would like to portray our efforts.
I'm one of the people who analyzes things very calmly, and for the most part, Season 7 looks awesome.
Its just the massive uptick in dil Costs that concerns me. 108k Dilithium per Mk 12 set is staggering. That's 13.5 Character days of refinement, which is a lot. Also the fact the Duty Officer exchanger takes 5 Blue Doffs and 5000 Dil for a random purple? Nobody will use that. That's way too much money to get a random doff from a List of mostly Sub Par Doffs.
All of the Dilithium inputs for Starbases are being evaluated and scrutinized so that we make the right balance change for Season 7. We agree that Dilithium costs for higher tiers of Starbases are too high and we will adjust them, just like we have done previously.
it's not only higher teirs that are to expensive , i have just got the teir 2 com array being built but 108k seems a little ott tbh . seeing all my fleet members left for bigger fleets i am the only one left , at the rate things are going i will be forced to scrap the fleet wasting billions of ec's already spent as well as all the dilithium used
I have been playing since beta. But I must say, these changes are simply TOO much, TOO quickly. We are losing TOO much just to get the certainty of STF gear. Add to that we wont have access to our pre-earned stuff intil T-5, which is the end of the road anyways? This is too much. It NEEDS to be toned sown. A lot.
There are too many changes you are adding to the soup at one time. You run the risk of cooking a mess.
If I didn't knwo any better, I would assume there are some internal metrics going on that is pushing you guys to shove all these changes down our collective throats too quick. I mean, in the history of ST:O, have you see such collective anger? I haven't. Is someone at Cryptic concerend that they won't get a bonus if they don't hit projected revenue?
Please. Tone it down. You can't give candy to a baby and take it away.
Don't make the players pull a Khan and DY-100 away from the game.
-ABM
I wish the hell They would put one of these in the game... even if it's in a Lock-box.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
We can take the heat and have done so since launch - by owning up to our metecritic score and continually improving. No one can say the game hasn't improved greatly in the last two years. It absolutely has and will continue to do so.
Season 7 is another of example of us taking something that wasn't well done in the first few months after launch and making it much better and closer to what it should have been. Not only that but it is just one small part of Season 7 in general. New Romulus is the name of Season 7 because that is really what it is all about.
The comments in this thread are what they are, but STO will continue on and will continue to succeed due to the love and dedication of the team and the support of the many many players that absolutely love what we've done with the game.
For sure the Luck System of STF's has caused a lot of friction and I don't think any of the playerbase enjoyed that, I know I certainly didn't it became frustrating.
But lets be honest it's something that could have been done without introducing a large Dilitium sink into it. One could have put an XP sink into it instead for example. Alongside the increase in Dilitium requirements due to the embassy, fleet vanity projects the Doff grinder and the reduction in Dilithium for STF's Season 7 is really more about fundamentally changing the Dilithium economy and affecting Zen sales.
There is a lot about this game that I like, there is also a lot that seems unfinished, some of the Episode content still has bugs and there is so much more potential in this game and the Star Trek IP than is currently being fulfilled. I am not talking about new playable races I am talking about adding more of a Star Trek feel. I would dearly love to see Player Exploration assignments that last for 20+ hours of game time and seek to emulate the experience of scientific exploration and strange new civilizations that is common to nearly all of the Star Trek Franchise, done though a matrix of "random dungeon creation" anyone who played NWN will know what that concept is.
- Once we have the final conversion numbers established, we will be updating TRIBBLE with the conversion script so that any character can log in individually and see the amount of Omega Marks, Borg Neural Processors, and Dilithium they will be receiving. This way you'll see exactly what each character will get and you can decide to cash out for Dilithium or not before Season 7.
Will this Dilithium appear in a crate for us to open so we know exactly how much we got or will it jump into our Dilithium pile? Will this Dilithium be refined (please) or Ore?
The crates that we get will contain Omega Marks, Dilithium and Borg Processors.
Since the Reputation system is similar to the Fleet System, projects have a set time limit to completion. We calculate that even if you have all the items necessary as inputs for all the projects, the time needed to complete all projects is going to be around 2 months.
Each project is gated by a day and a half timer. How will people be "skipping" the system if they all have to wait the same amount of time for projects to complete? It sounds more like this is designed so that we have to work to get access to the unlocks and keep doing Borg content long enough to unlock more currency that we already did the work to get.
I will still have to wait a few days to get through Tier 1 Omega Reputation even if my Crates opened immediately. I can also do one Elite STF with optional and have all the marks I need for Tier 1 Reputation...
I really don't see the point in taking my money that I went through 300 STFs to earn only to give it back when I will need it least.
All existing gear you've purchased via STFs will remain on your character. The Omega set is not going away at all. There are some slight changes happening to the Borg Space set in that you only will need 3 set pieces to get all 4 of the set bonuses, and a second additional set (2 weapons and a console) is being introduced that uses the console that is being taken out of the original set (but the bonus still remains). So the only change is that the set is getting better. Again - these changes will be available on Tribble soon for those that want to see it in action.
The gentleman was asking about the Anti-Borg weapons, not the sets. The weapons with a {Borg} proc. Will these be updated with the new weapons available in the rep store or will Borg proc weapons remain as is?
A side question to that: Is there a way (or could you add a way) to trade in older Borg proc weapons and older gear (Mk X, Mk XI, etc) for Omega marks/Borg Processors/Dilithium?
Statistically speaking, this is untrue.
Even starting from scratch, maxing out the new Reputation system will take you approximately 60% less STF runs than the chances you have of getting the last gear drop you need. This is what we meant by the system is far more favorable for most players. When the drop rate is so low, you'd have to run STFs "X" number of times for a likely chance to get the tech drop.
In the new system, the number of STF runs needed to get that last piece of gear is reduced down to a definite cost that has a finite number of STF runs to obtain which is 60% less than what it would have been previously in the random odds table.
Sure you might get lucky and get the last piece of gear you need in the next two months, but the odds are against you in the current reward table. You are more likely to get the last piece of gear you need by leveling up the Rep system than leaving it to chance.
It's a sure thing yes, but realistically statistics are easily manipulated. For instance, are you looking statistically at a player who plays one STF per day? 2? 5? 10?
I started intensely playing STFs (4+ a day) and got the entire set of Omega for Space and Ground in the last month. Mk XII both sides.
We are also acknowledging that this is another big currency conversion and so unlike the previous Dilithium conversion, we are attempting to provide more information earlier so that players are more informed about what is happening and can have some options before the change hits.
We all appreciate the openness regarding this conversion. I think, bluntly, we got seriously boned in the Dilithium conversion to the point that some people I knew quit and haven't returned. It was a disgusting slap in the face. I'm very happy to see you guys learned what not to do when it comes to such things.
So yes - Dilithium is a time currency.
Don't you have to have some kind of standard for a currency though to give it it's value? Dilithium I've never thought of as a time-based currency because unless you do X and Y in Z time you'll get different amounts of currency. I can get 8000 Dilithium in 1 hour or 3 hours depending on what I'm doing to get it. It's not like me playing the game just gives me Dilithium on a per-hour basis like a salary at a job. So I can see why many don't think of it as a true time-based currency.
Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7
- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
- Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)
In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.
In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium
In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.
The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.
All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.
Now that you've slashed the amount of Dilithium Elite STFs give in half and removed the odds of getting gear from them (even a random grab bag of Blues and Purples *sadpanda*) does this mean the timer will be reduced on STFs from an hour to 30 min?
The comments in this thread are what they are, but STO will continue on and will continue to succeed due to the love and dedication of the team and the support of the many many players that absolutely love what we've done with the game.
While I agree that the game is vastly improved and I feel your team has done an immense amount of work, don't get too big headed . Keep in minds ST fans are by default rather clingy to all things ST and since this is the only ST we can get at any given time we'll stick with it. You have a built in, hardcore, fan base with this IP. You'd have to try darn hard to NOT be at least a little successful. Again this isn't to say you guys aren't doing great work and it's not to say I'm not super psyched you escaped Zynga before it started crumbling.
Understood and we'll evaluate this once all of Season 7 is on TRIBBLE and we have the TRIBBLE stress test weekend and evaluate the final feedback once everyone can play all the systems at once.
In response to your response: Would it be possible tofr the system to assign a "cost" to player deaths in Fleet Actions? Let the system take your Damage done in the match + Healing done - Deaths you've had = Your Fleet Action score?
All of the Dilithium inputs for Starbases are being evaluated and scrutinized so that we make the right balance change for Season 7. We agree that Dilithium costs for higher tiers of Starbases are too high and we will adjust them, just like we have done previously.
Slight tangent from Blog 8: CHEF cost? Bartender is possibly being looked at but the Chef requires 2000 rare drop foods...
More BOFF inputs and more other inputs please. More inputs for Featured Projects aside from Dilithium. More stat affecting projects? The embassy can offer Fleet members +1 DOFF assignment slot at each tier, any chance of perhaps a Borg Starbase project that gives us a MACO tactical specialist that buffs Plasma Resistance by 5% and Damage vs Borg by 5% and requires say a bunch of Borg Nano-suppressants and other stuff like those crafty bits I have way too many of from Defera?
I am not being apologetic but Mr Stahl is listening and responding. It's now 6:20pm on the West coast and as far as I know he is still on this thread. He could have walked out by now.
Anyways - I do agree that this 1st 2nd, 3rd place thing is going to be a disaster in anything team and could lead to failure and break-down of the missions/fleet actions as everyone trys to win. It's going to get ugly in the missions - I can't even imagine the annomosity that players will harbour towards other players.
@Thread: I understand why people are frustrated but bashing someone like dstahl is not only likely to have the opposite desired results, it's also rude, immature and unnecessary.
Your feedback can be negative, constructive and intelligent at the same time.
Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7
- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
Ouch.
Dan, why are STFs being so heavily penalized?
It's going to cost approximately 484,000 dilithium to get to T5 rep, buy 8 [Borg] weapons & buy 3 set pieces.
Why de-incentivize the very content that you are adding a dilithium sink to by reducing the dilithium rewards?
For one thing, ground rewards as they stand now are not commensurate with the amount of time investment they require vs. space.
Another is that 480 is really a pittance for an Elite STF.
Here are some solo missions that reward 480:
Rescue Deferi Captives (this mission takes under 3 minutes)
History 102: Alpha Quadrant Midterm (takes about 30s)
Explore Strange New Worlds 1440 (takes about 15 minutes)
The above can be combined with Chart the B'tran cluster for a total of 2880 dilithium
Traelus System Repair 480 (takes under 5 minutes)
There are at least another 3-4 missions like this.
There is no reason that an Elite STF that requires 5 players to first get together and complete should reward the same or less missions than what's listed above
In fact you can earn 500 dilithium not even being at your PC through the DOFF system or 2K dilithium through the contraband turn in!!
Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7
- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
- Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)
In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.
In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium
In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.
The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.
All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.
Are you going to at least do a pass over the fleet actions and the daily quests for them then? The respawn rates in the gorn fleet action are wonky (the frigate section has repops too high, the cruisers you have to wait for repops I think its, or maybe it's battleships in the gorn and cruisers in the klingon one, but either way, playing through these once or twice and try and do the daily mission and it's obvious what's wrong with them. ) The dailies are odd because they have you going after objectives that are out of the way of the main objective, and that distraction from central focus makes the dailies more of a burden than a bonus.
Reducing dilithium on the daily STF's is a bad plan (or at least, reducing it to half of a fleet action). Why would you do them except to grind rep, and once you have rep you'd never go back? New players will have a perpetually harder time of it and longer queues.
Obviously the gold/silver thing is foolish and you'll have to drop the plan or tanks and healers are going to get the pitchforks, and rightfully so. The current first place thing is amusing, but not actually a sustainable system that you'd want to seriously value. You have a role, do that role. At cryptic you clearly haven't got the tech to figure out who is doing their role the best relative to other people doing different roles, it's a nonsense comparison at best, and it doesn't do anyone any favours to try and make the entire game about doing max dps/HPS/etc. Granted, max DPS is my specialty, but that should not be the goal for the whole game. STF's need a minimum capability test because while you can solve 'probes' a lot of different ways, you need to be demonstrably able to do at least one of those ways.
I think the reason behind the dilithium changes is to lower the supply and raise the demand because on the Holodeck the price to buy zen has dropped and Cryptic as a business company is now losing money. Just like the changes to the lockboxes less people are buying them and thus Cryptic loses money. I think this is the reason behind changing the dilthium amounts especially with STFs they know that they are popular and fleet actions are not so why not change the rewards so the demand goes up and the supply goes down.
Glad fleet actions are getting something. Maybe once again people will start doing fleet actions at end game again.
I've missed the competive aspect of fleet actions. It will be great to see my name in gold and have everyone in awe of my awesomeness as I'll be number one all the time
To be honest I highly doubt introducing all these Dilithium sinks into the game to effect the Dilithium economy was their idea.
But really thats what Season 7 is defined as to me at the moment, sure I love the non-randomness of the new STF progression... but I can see the elephant in the room here it's purple and made of crystals
more then cut in half the dilithium reward for stfs wile you introduce ABSURD dilithium cost to acquiring and swamping doffs, and everything else in season 7.
your adding a HUGE dilithium cost to each and every new and old item, along with a new mark cost. and adding in omega, romulan, and embassy projects that will require a HUGE dilithium and EC investment on top of the current HUGE dilithium and EC investment needed for fleet advancement. you should be rasing the reward across the board! giving 500, 1000, and 1500 dil for the various places it can be earned, and giving us a 10k conversion a day.
we would have to spend $100 a month on converted zen just to break even with what we earn now, and all the HUGE new sinks for it. wile im sure you would love that, from a business standpoint, it makes us VERYVERYVERY upset with you.
The new Fleet Embassy System, should take massive amounts of XP's and minimum amount's of Dilithium, to increase it's Tiers.
And the dilithium should only be required as the cost of physical upgrades, not for a players tier standings.
Addendum:
In the Real World, an Embassy doesn't go around handing out Money to increase it's Reputation/Standing's with the Local Indigenous Population...
Granted there may be some back-room dealings, to help keep the Embassy Safe during Riots or Hard Times...,
But it's not generally a Paid Service that generates good feelings among the locals toward an Embassy..
It's how the Embassy Staff and the Ambassador acts in public that creates it's standing.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Rescue Deferi Captives (this mission takes under 3 minutes)
History 102: Alpha Quadrant Midterm (takes about 30s)
Explore Strange New Worlds 1440 (takes about 15 minutes)
The above can be combined with Chart the B'tran cluster for a total of 2880 dilithium
Traelus System Repair 480 (takes under 5 minutes)
There are at least another 3-4 missions like this.
There is no reason that an Elite STF that requires 5 players to first get together and complete should reward the same or less missions than what's listed above
In fact you can earn 500 dilithium not even being at your PC through the DOFF system or 2K dilithium through the contraband turn in!!
Have to agree here. Solo content should always reward less than Group content. But you are now making changes to the STFs, which make them reward LESS than Solo content (Normal STFs, 240 Dil per run). At MINIMUM, the Normal STFs should remain at 480 Dil. The Elite STFs are being slashed by MORE THAN HALF. Half of 1440 is 720, you are decreasing it to 480 Dil.
Why should we run group content that takes 15-30 min to complete, when we can do solo content and get just as much (or more) ?
The new Fleet Embassy System, should take massive amounts of XP's and minimum amount's of Dilithium, to increase it's Tiers.
And the dilithium should only be required as the cost of physical upgrades, not for a players tier standings.
Agreed 100%. Why do you need to put a Dilithium cost on EVERYTHING? Not just in upgrading your Reputation standing, but also in the purchase of the Store gear that you must unlock WITH DILITHIUM.
Lastly, as stated, the Gold/Silver/Bronze system needs to either be removed from the older Fleet Actions, or re-built. Does not take into account player deaths, or amount healed. Only "who can deal the most damage".
more then cut in half the dilithium reward for stfs wile you introduce ABSURD dilithium cost to acquiring and swamping doffs, and everything else in season 7.
your adding a HUGE dilithium cost to each and every new and old item, along with a new mark cost. and adding in omega, romulan, and embassy projects that will require a HUGE dilithium and EC investment on top of the current HUGE dilithium and EC investment needed for fleet advancement. you should be rasing the reward across the board! giving 500, 1000, and 1500 dil for the various places it can be earned, and giving us a 10k conversion a day.
we would have to spend $100 a month on converted zen just to break even with what we earn now, and all the HUGE new sinks for it. wile im sure you would love that, from a business standpoint, it makes us VERYVERYVERY upset with you.
They clearly require more profit, and the current Lockbox is not that popular, I think we are seeing lockbox fatigue, so new areas of exploit must be opened up.
It's a risky strategy, and judging by the responses on this forum no one likes it, but either we live with it or quit the game. Lets face it if this game didn't have the Star Trek IP a lot of us would never have been here in the first place and that is the one overriding variable that keep us coming back.
I am not being apologetic but Mr Stahl is listening and responding. It's now 6:20pm on the West coast and as far as I know he is still on this thread. He could have walked out by now.
Anyways - I do agree that this 1st 2nd, 3rd place thing is going to be a disaster in anything team and could lead to failure and break-down of the missions/fleet actions as everyone trys to win. It's going to get ugly in the missions - I can't even imagine the annomosity that players will harbour towards other players.
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
STFs will still reward Dilithium and there will be an Omega Rep project that converts marks into Dilithium, so we're replacing it, not taking it away.
In addition, we're adding Dilithium drops to all Fleet Actions as well as some other new Events.
All of this in Season 7
And that is still only in specific, gated content.
If dilithium is supposed to be a time based currency it needs to actually represent time played in the game in general, not time spent in a relative handful of grinds.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
My final post on the topic for now (03:30 in Sweden, so I should probably go to bed)...
Will you make ANY changes to the DOff conversion requiring MASSIVE amounts of Dilithium compared to Season 6? (5 white -> 1 random green etc)
So you guys have adjusted the star base dilith requirement but i must say i have not seen the requirement reduce only noticed it increase. Does feel like a money squeeze to me and others as mentioned. But your correct we don't see what really goes on behind the scenes. So good job on the things that make this game work and thank you for your efforts guys. Oh and can you guys refund me on my purchase for my now useles dreddy? may as well fly a phaser platform if it can actually do real damage Capt picard would not even captain it lolz. Still good work for the most part devs make us proud hehehehe.
Understood and we'll evaluate this once all of Season 7 is on TRIBBLE and we have the TRIBBLE stress test weekend and evaluate the final feedback once everyone can play all the systems at once.
You need more than one weekend to get the proper metrics stored away. And you'd get a lot more people on tribble if there was a reward for their participation. I can not tell you how many people just do not like playing on test servers.
No one is ignoring feedback. Season 7 isn't fully on TRIBBLE yet - we are letting you know ahead of time about changes coming so that we can gather feedback.
But I would hardly call some of the comments in this thread as feedback, it is more like personal threats or bashing me - to which I say - ok I get it - there is frustration - but the game will go on and we will continue to improve.
That does not rule out changes that might be made based on feedback, it just says hate me all you want. I can take it. I have the benefit of seeing the reality behind the scenes to know the truth that the game is doing really well.
At the end of the day, this team cares about STO and still spend many hours a day working to make it better and more fun for everyone. Not everyone has the same play style or the same feedback. We have to weigh everything and make a measure and calculated decision. So far we've done pretty good if you go by the success of the game versus how some would like to portray our efforts.
I'm not trying to threaten you personally. I can see why you'd say that based off some of the posts. I have been very harsh in my tone because quite frankly I'm a TOS trekkie. I got introduced as a toddler and i've basically grown up around the series. I went and saw most of the movies in theaters and i've seen every ep of every series on TV. I want this game to succeed. I want this game to thrive. But as an F2P game there are issues i MUST take with what's happening. The worst thing that could happen is that people feel they need to pay to win. Which is what this borders on. Some people will like it. Most will not.
To a LOT of people this feels like a cash grab. If you cant shake that. I really believe you're going to have issues. One of the suggestions was putting up the Named gear at Mk12 level for a rather high amount of EDC.
Imo i dont think that's enough. I believe while you want to be fair you are in fact doing more harm than good. Players who have put in a large amount of time to figure these things out are getting the shaft. I'm 26 STF's off the starfleet cross. That's 150 STF's completed. A good portion of them with optionals. I haven't been seriously playing all that long but i've been involved for awhile in one form or another. I feel like my Starfleet Cross is going to be utterly ignored by the Omega force despite no reason for it to be. What if you were to make it so certain accolades gave discounts to projects on certain tiers? Would that not still accomplish your goal while giving the players what they want? I cant believe it would be that hard to code in.
All of the Dilithium inputs for Starbases are being evaluated and scrutinized so that we make the right balance change for Season 7. We agree that Dilithium costs for higher tiers of Starbases are too high and we will adjust them, just like we have done previously.
I hope you do. These changes need to be public and they need to be known. If this change is right then there is actual cause to hope. I want to believe that you guys have the best intrests of this game at heart. But with so many opposed its hard to read you just ignoring some of these posts. I've been in a lot of battles like this. EVE online Anarchy Online Age of Conan and others. I didnt bother with TOR because it was EA. Here i'm bothering and i'm hoping its worth it.
On however the subject of the dilithium structure:
The new dilithium changes slant people more towards fleet combat. THIS is actually NOT A BAD THING. What is bad right now is the fact you are rewarding based on Individual performance and NOT overall objectives. This should change. These fleet actions should be about people WORKING together. Gold Silver Bronze and Crud Should be determined based on the condition of the objective at the end of the match. The 20 man fleet is a PERFECT way of using that. A fleet that works together can earn high levels of marks. A 20 man pug isnt going to have as good a finish.
To be clear: All conditions and low starbase damage=Gold
most condtions and low starbase damage= silver
some conditions and medium starbase damage = bronze
few conditions and heavy starbase damage = crud.
Now One thing people are not talking about when it comes to '(The elephant in the room)' is the fact they are NOT to my knowledge changing DAILY MISSIONS. B'tran cluster nets about 2600 with strange new worlds. Deferi adds a bunch (i dont have the exact number but its easily 2k+ total) and the PVP daily adds some as well. STF's are a FUN way but there are other parts of the game not being touched by the dilithium changes that WILL make it easier to hit that 8k cap. Between fleet actions and STF's i don't see that 8k or higher being harder to hit.
I hope in the coming days you and the rest of the team are more responsive than you have been up to this point.
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
Great. Good to hear that you are monitoring this thread for feedback.
Any Dev feedback on what is (arguably) the most loathed change announced (although no one announced it -they just slapped it on Tribble) ie - the 50X increase in the use of the DOFF upgrinder and the overall addition of a dilithium cost to almost everything?
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
Dan, since this is a tribble conversation I've created a thread here for Tribble feedback.
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
I very much respect you sitting here through this firestorm. Yes removing the 1st/2nd/3rd place is the most wise course of action - these are after all supposed to be "team" focased events. Nothing but disaster could come from those reward - no-one healing others, no-one shielding others, no-one re-surrecting others. Most missions would end in utter failure.
My final post on the topic for now (03:30 in Sweden, so I should probably go to bed)...
Will you make ANY changes to the DOff conversion requiring MASSIVE amounts of Dilithium compared to Season 6? (5 white -> 1 random green etc)
That is what a lot of Doffers are very concerned about and theres been word about this, 6,000 dil to upgrade 5 blues to a purple is a bit high to say the least, and 1000 for a pack from SFA will stop new players getting as many doffs as they should - to replace losses
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
That being the case the concerns I have garnered form the player-base that we wish to see addressed are;
The insane increase in Doff grinder Dilithium costs (no on wants this at all)
The reduction in Dilithium rewards for STF's
The creation of multiple new and expensive Dilithium sinks especially in STF's where to get a full space set and weapons we are looking at a staggering 450k Dilithium
Those are the concerns we wish to see addressed by the team and as you can see their is a common concern in each point.
I also agree with Levi's assessment of the rewards, it would kill support roles, which are as I am sure you will agree already marginalized in much of the space end-game where DPS is more often than not king. I know however that the combat logs list Heals given out and Damage taken, if you wanted a reward system, could you not also have an award for most heals and most damage recived/amount of deaths?. Though such a system would be more complicated and a simple across the board reward may be the way to go.
when will more season 7 content be going on tribble ? , atm it seems empty when i try and play the new minetrap . been waiting over 60 min and still not enough people are on
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
Please don't take any of the negative feedback personally. We are just frustrated with the new rewards system, and how this makes us want to walk away. Our frustration is from endless grinding, lack of rewards, slow progress, and, in one case, playing through the system to re-earn what has already been earned.
I spent $200 on Zen within only a few months, so that I can get neat gear to use. I am taking these changes as a personal attack on my loyalty as a customer.
I don't want to regrind.
I don't want to spend 25 to 30 minutes on an stf, so that I can only be rewarded a few coins.
If we are putting money into Zen and effort into grinding, why does this new system punish your loyal fans?
Understood and we'll evaluate this once all of Season 7 is on TRIBBLE and we have the TRIBBLE stress test weekend and evaluate the final feedback once everyone can play all the systems at once.
I find it funny to read Dan's posts defending the new system as a guaranteed way to get the STF stuff people want. My question is... Why couldn't you have just added something like, trade in 50 Proto Salvage for a Proto Tech requisition? It's simple, it would of taken about a half hour for your team t implement, and everyone would be happier. But no! You need to design some ridiculous epic grind around a system and call it "content" when it's just another boring money sink! :mad:
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
Tribble test prize ....a Tribble with pointed ears PLEASE!!!:eek:
Comments
Its just the massive uptick in dil Costs that concerns me. 108k Dilithium per Mk 12 set is staggering. That's 13.5 Character days of refinement, which is a lot. Also the fact the Duty Officer exchanger takes 5 Blue Doffs and 5000 Dil for a random purple? Nobody will use that. That's way too much money to get a random doff from a List of mostly Sub Par Doffs.
it's not only higher teirs that are to expensive , i have just got the teir 2 com array being built but 108k seems a little ott tbh . seeing all my fleet members left for bigger fleets i am the only one left , at the rate things are going i will be forced to scrap the fleet wasting billions of ec's already spent as well as all the dilithium used
DELTA PRICE RISING
I wish the hell They would put one of these in the game... even if it's in a Lock-box.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
For sure the Luck System of STF's has caused a lot of friction and I don't think any of the playerbase enjoyed that, I know I certainly didn't it became frustrating.
But lets be honest it's something that could have been done without introducing a large Dilitium sink into it. One could have put an XP sink into it instead for example. Alongside the increase in Dilitium requirements due to the embassy, fleet vanity projects the Doff grinder and the reduction in Dilithium for STF's Season 7 is really more about fundamentally changing the Dilithium economy and affecting Zen sales.
There is a lot about this game that I like, there is also a lot that seems unfinished, some of the Episode content still has bugs and there is so much more potential in this game and the Star Trek IP than is currently being fulfilled. I am not talking about new playable races I am talking about adding more of a Star Trek feel. I would dearly love to see Player Exploration assignments that last for 20+ hours of game time and seek to emulate the experience of scientific exploration and strange new civilizations that is common to nearly all of the Star Trek Franchise, done though a matrix of "random dungeon creation" anyone who played NWN will know what that concept is.
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Will this Dilithium appear in a crate for us to open so we know exactly how much we got or will it jump into our Dilithium pile? Will this Dilithium be refined (please) or Ore?
The crates that we get will contain Omega Marks, Dilithium and Borg Processors.
Each project is gated by a day and a half timer. How will people be "skipping" the system if they all have to wait the same amount of time for projects to complete? It sounds more like this is designed so that we have to work to get access to the unlocks and keep doing Borg content long enough to unlock more currency that we already did the work to get.
I will still have to wait a few days to get through Tier 1 Omega Reputation even if my Crates opened immediately. I can also do one Elite STF with optional and have all the marks I need for Tier 1 Reputation...
I really don't see the point in taking my money that I went through 300 STFs to earn only to give it back when I will need it least.
The gentleman was asking about the Anti-Borg weapons, not the sets. The weapons with a {Borg} proc. Will these be updated with the new weapons available in the rep store or will Borg proc weapons remain as is?
A side question to that: Is there a way (or could you add a way) to trade in older Borg proc weapons and older gear (Mk X, Mk XI, etc) for Omega marks/Borg Processors/Dilithium?
It's a sure thing yes, but realistically statistics are easily manipulated. For instance, are you looking statistically at a player who plays one STF per day? 2? 5? 10?
I started intensely playing STFs (4+ a day) and got the entire set of Omega for Space and Ground in the last month. Mk XII both sides.
We all appreciate the openness regarding this conversion. I think, bluntly, we got seriously boned in the Dilithium conversion to the point that some people I knew quit and haven't returned. It was a disgusting slap in the face. I'm very happy to see you guys learned what not to do when it comes to such things.
Don't you have to have some kind of standard for a currency though to give it it's value? Dilithium I've never thought of as a time-based currency because unless you do X and Y in Z time you'll get different amounts of currency. I can get 8000 Dilithium in 1 hour or 3 hours depending on what I'm doing to get it. It's not like me playing the game just gives me Dilithium on a per-hour basis like a salary at a job. So I can see why many don't think of it as a true time-based currency.
Now that you've slashed the amount of Dilithium Elite STFs give in half and removed the odds of getting gear from them (even a random grab bag of Blues and Purples *sadpanda*) does this mean the timer will be reduced on STFs from an hour to 30 min?
While I agree that the game is vastly improved and I feel your team has done an immense amount of work, don't get too big headed
In response to your response: Would it be possible tofr the system to assign a "cost" to player deaths in Fleet Actions? Let the system take your Damage done in the match + Healing done - Deaths you've had = Your Fleet Action score?
Slight tangent from Blog 8: CHEF cost? Bartender is possibly being looked at but the Chef requires 2000 rare drop foods...
More BOFF inputs and more other inputs please. More inputs for Featured Projects aside from Dilithium. More stat affecting projects? The embassy can offer Fleet members +1 DOFF assignment slot at each tier, any chance of perhaps a Borg Starbase project that gives us a MACO tactical specialist that buffs Plasma Resistance by 5% and Damage vs Borg by 5% and requires say a bunch of Borg Nano-suppressants and other stuff like those crafty bits I have way too many of from Defera?
Anyways - I do agree that this 1st 2nd, 3rd place thing is going to be a disaster in anything team and could lead to failure and break-down of the missions/fleet actions as everyone trys to win. It's going to get ugly in the missions - I can't even imagine the annomosity that players will harbour towards other players.
Your feedback can be negative, constructive and intelligent at the same time.
Ouch.
Dan, why are STFs being so heavily penalized?
It's going to cost approximately 484,000 dilithium to get to T5 rep, buy 8 [Borg] weapons & buy 3 set pieces.
Why de-incentivize the very content that you are adding a dilithium sink to by reducing the dilithium rewards?
For one thing, ground rewards as they stand now are not commensurate with the amount of time investment they require vs. space.
Another is that 480 is really a pittance for an Elite STF.
Here are some solo missions that reward 480:
- Rescue Deferi Captives (this mission takes under 3 minutes)
- History 102: Alpha Quadrant Midterm (takes about 30s)
- Explore Strange New Worlds 1440 (takes about 15 minutes)
- The above can be combined with Chart the B'tran cluster for a total of 2880 dilithium
- Traelus System Repair 480 (takes under 5 minutes)
There are at least another 3-4 missions like this.There is no reason that an Elite STF that requires 5 players to first get together and complete should reward the same or less missions than what's listed above
In fact you can earn 500 dilithium not even being at your PC through the DOFF system or 2K dilithium through the contraband turn in!!
Are you going to at least do a pass over the fleet actions and the daily quests for them then? The respawn rates in the gorn fleet action are wonky (the frigate section has repops too high, the cruisers you have to wait for repops I think its, or maybe it's battleships in the gorn and cruisers in the klingon one, but either way, playing through these once or twice and try and do the daily mission and it's obvious what's wrong with them. ) The dailies are odd because they have you going after objectives that are out of the way of the main objective, and that distraction from central focus makes the dailies more of a burden than a bonus.
Reducing dilithium on the daily STF's is a bad plan (or at least, reducing it to half of a fleet action). Why would you do them except to grind rep, and once you have rep you'd never go back? New players will have a perpetually harder time of it and longer queues.
Obviously the gold/silver thing is foolish and you'll have to drop the plan or tanks and healers are going to get the pitchforks, and rightfully so. The current first place thing is amusing, but not actually a sustainable system that you'd want to seriously value. You have a role, do that role. At cryptic you clearly haven't got the tech to figure out who is doing their role the best relative to other people doing different roles, it's a nonsense comparison at best, and it doesn't do anyone any favours to try and make the entire game about doing max dps/HPS/etc. Granted, max DPS is my specialty, but that should not be the goal for the whole game. STF's need a minimum capability test because while you can solve 'probes' a lot of different ways, you need to be demonstrably able to do at least one of those ways.
I've missed the competive aspect of fleet actions. It will be great to see my name in gold and have everyone in awe of my awesomeness as I'll be number one all the time
Accepting challenges for season 7 :cool:
Being critical is not an act of assault.
To be honest I highly doubt introducing all these Dilithium sinks into the game to effect the Dilithium economy was their idea.
But really thats what Season 7 is defined as to me at the moment, sure I love the non-randomness of the new STF progression... but I can see the elephant in the room here it's purple and made of crystals
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CANT
CANT
more then cut in half the dilithium reward for stfs wile you introduce ABSURD dilithium cost to acquiring and swamping doffs, and everything else in season 7.
your adding a HUGE dilithium cost to each and every new and old item, along with a new mark cost. and adding in omega, romulan, and embassy projects that will require a HUGE dilithium and EC investment on top of the current HUGE dilithium and EC investment needed for fleet advancement. you should be rasing the reward across the board! giving 500, 1000, and 1500 dil for the various places it can be earned, and giving us a 10k conversion a day.
we would have to spend $100 a month on converted zen just to break even with what we earn now, and all the HUGE new sinks for it. wile im sure you would love that, from a business standpoint, it makes us VERYVERYVERY upset with you.
The new Fleet Embassy System, should take massive amounts of XP's and minimum amount's of Dilithium, to increase it's Tiers.
And the dilithium should only be required as the cost of physical upgrades, not for a players tier standings.
Addendum:
In the Real World, an Embassy doesn't go around handing out Money to increase it's Reputation/Standing's with the Local Indigenous Population...
Granted there may be some back-room dealings, to help keep the Embassy Safe during Riots or Hard Times...,
But it's not generally a Paid Service that generates good feelings among the locals toward an Embassy..
It's how the Embassy Staff and the Ambassador acts in public that creates it's standing.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Have to agree here. Solo content should always reward less than Group content. But you are now making changes to the STFs, which make them reward LESS than Solo content (Normal STFs, 240 Dil per run). At MINIMUM, the Normal STFs should remain at 480 Dil. The Elite STFs are being slashed by MORE THAN HALF. Half of 1440 is 720, you are decreasing it to 480 Dil.
Why should we run group content that takes 15-30 min to complete, when we can do solo content and get just as much (or more) ?
Agreed 100%. Why do you need to put a Dilithium cost on EVERYTHING? Not just in upgrading your Reputation standing, but also in the purchase of the Store gear that you must unlock WITH DILITHIUM.
Lastly, as stated, the Gold/Silver/Bronze system needs to either be removed from the older Fleet Actions, or re-built. Does not take into account player deaths, or amount healed. Only "who can deal the most damage".
They clearly require more profit, and the current Lockbox is not that popular, I think we are seeing lockbox fatigue, so new areas of exploit must be opened up.
It's a risky strategy, and judging by the responses on this forum no one likes it, but either we live with it or quit the game. Lets face it if this game didn't have the Star Trek IP a lot of us would never have been here in the first place and that is the one overriding variable that keep us coming back.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
That is a valid point and one that I've already talked to the designers about. We may remove the 2x Dilithium for Gold and just give everyone 960 Dilithium.
It is also worth mentioning, the reason why I'm still on this thread is because all of the feedback in this thread is being shared with the designers and the team. When good points and valid concerns are brought up, I'm taking those concerns to the designers and we're discussing it.
That is one of the purposes of this thread - to get immediate feedback as we are implementing the system. Nothing is set in stone in an MMO an we can always adjust. None of this is even live yet, but we do ask that you give it a fair shake once ALL of Season 7 is up on Tribble and we have the Test Weekend. Then you can see how all the economies are updated and make a more valid assessment.
We will then adjust more from there.
And that is still only in specific, gated content.
If dilithium is supposed to be a time based currency it needs to actually represent time played in the game in general, not time spent in a relative handful of grinds.
My final post on the topic for now (03:30 in Sweden, so I should probably go to bed)...
Will you make ANY changes to the DOff conversion requiring MASSIVE amounts of Dilithium compared to Season 6? (5 white -> 1 random green etc)
You need more than one weekend to get the proper metrics stored away. And you'd get a lot more people on tribble if there was a reward for their participation. I can not tell you how many people just do not like playing on test servers.
I'm not trying to threaten you personally. I can see why you'd say that based off some of the posts. I have been very harsh in my tone because quite frankly I'm a TOS trekkie. I got introduced as a toddler and i've basically grown up around the series. I went and saw most of the movies in theaters and i've seen every ep of every series on TV. I want this game to succeed. I want this game to thrive. But as an F2P game there are issues i MUST take with what's happening. The worst thing that could happen is that people feel they need to pay to win. Which is what this borders on. Some people will like it. Most will not.
To a LOT of people this feels like a cash grab. If you cant shake that. I really believe you're going to have issues. One of the suggestions was putting up the Named gear at Mk12 level for a rather high amount of EDC.
Imo i dont think that's enough. I believe while you want to be fair you are in fact doing more harm than good. Players who have put in a large amount of time to figure these things out are getting the shaft. I'm 26 STF's off the starfleet cross. That's 150 STF's completed. A good portion of them with optionals. I haven't been seriously playing all that long but i've been involved for awhile in one form or another. I feel like my Starfleet Cross is going to be utterly ignored by the Omega force despite no reason for it to be. What if you were to make it so certain accolades gave discounts to projects on certain tiers? Would that not still accomplish your goal while giving the players what they want? I cant believe it would be that hard to code in.
I hope you do. These changes need to be public and they need to be known. If this change is right then there is actual cause to hope. I want to believe that you guys have the best intrests of this game at heart. But with so many opposed its hard to read you just ignoring some of these posts. I've been in a lot of battles like this. EVE online Anarchy Online Age of Conan and others. I didnt bother with TOR because it was EA. Here i'm bothering and i'm hoping its worth it.
On however the subject of the dilithium structure:
The new dilithium changes slant people more towards fleet combat. THIS is actually NOT A BAD THING. What is bad right now is the fact you are rewarding based on Individual performance and NOT overall objectives. This should change. These fleet actions should be about people WORKING together. Gold Silver Bronze and Crud Should be determined based on the condition of the objective at the end of the match. The 20 man fleet is a PERFECT way of using that. A fleet that works together can earn high levels of marks. A 20 man pug isnt going to have as good a finish.
To be clear: All conditions and low starbase damage=Gold
most condtions and low starbase damage= silver
some conditions and medium starbase damage = bronze
few conditions and heavy starbase damage = crud.
Now One thing people are not talking about when it comes to '(The elephant in the room)' is the fact they are NOT to my knowledge changing DAILY MISSIONS. B'tran cluster nets about 2600 with strange new worlds. Deferi adds a bunch (i dont have the exact number but its easily 2k+ total) and the PVP daily adds some as well. STF's are a FUN way but there are other parts of the game not being touched by the dilithium changes that WILL make it easier to hit that 8k cap. Between fleet actions and STF's i don't see that 8k or higher being harder to hit.
I hope in the coming days you and the rest of the team are more responsive than you have been up to this point.
Great. Good to hear that you are monitoring this thread for feedback.
Any Dev feedback on what is (arguably) the most loathed change announced (although no one announced it -they just slapped it on Tribble) ie - the 50X increase in the use of the DOFF upgrinder and the overall addition of a dilithium cost to almost everything?
I ask because I care.
Dan, since this is a tribble conversation I've created a thread here for Tribble feedback.
Please respond there when you have time.
I very much respect you sitting here through this firestorm. Yes removing the 1st/2nd/3rd place is the most wise course of action - these are after all supposed to be "team" focased events. Nothing but disaster could come from those reward - no-one healing others, no-one shielding others, no-one re-surrecting others. Most missions would end in utter failure.
That is what a lot of Doffers are very concerned about and theres been word about this, 6,000 dil to upgrade 5 blues to a purple is a bit high to say the least, and 1000 for a pack from SFA will stop new players getting as many doffs as they should - to replace losses
That being the case the concerns I have garnered form the player-base that we wish to see addressed are;
Those are the concerns we wish to see addressed by the team and as you can see their is a common concern in each point.
I also agree with Levi's assessment of the rewards, it would kill support roles, which are as I am sure you will agree already marginalized in much of the space end-game where DPS is more often than not king. I know however that the combat logs list Heals given out and Damage taken, if you wanted a reward system, could you not also have an award for most heals and most damage recived/amount of deaths?. Though such a system would be more complicated and a simple across the board reward may be the way to go.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
DELTA PRICE RISING
I spent $200 on Zen within only a few months, so that I can get neat gear to use. I am taking these changes as a personal attack on my loyalty as a customer.
I don't want to regrind.
I don't want to spend 25 to 30 minutes on an stf, so that I can only be rewarded a few coins.
If we are putting money into Zen and effort into grinding, why does this new system punish your loyal fans?
Which is code for fat chance
Tribble test prize ....a Tribble with pointed ears PLEASE!!!:eek: