I'm a lousy Silver and I feed on your tears! :cool:
This opens up for more lifers to get the 1000+ rewards at the same time as everyone else.
Though at this point all those on m2m Gold should just jump to LTS if you think the game is going to survive another year. If not, stay m2m because that's where you are getting your money's worth.
Sunk cost are assets that are written off. Not even accounted for in the books, unless you've sold it for cash, and then it appears during the fiscal year.
Btw, doesn't Gold membership give you a discount in the z-store?
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
I would say it's more about showing the dedication you had when the fate of the game was very much in question (and this around the time Hellgate and that cops and robbers MMO were crashing and burning at their launches). I'd say it's more about showing that you were willing to take that risk and invest early on. That you're still here after the Year of Hell where we all had about 11 months with just about zero new content that wasn't a CStore item, while the game was still sub-based, so that Cryptic could make the switch over to F2P. That you're still here after F2P when your subscription got ridiculously devalued by their hair-brained idea to make ending a monthly sub not remove the things you'd unlocked for subbing. That you're still here after P2W. Here after dropping the ball on PvP for three years. Dropping the ball on the KDF for three years. Still here after... everything.
I'd say a lot of people would like it as a badge of honor that they've but up with all of Cryptic's bull **** for a quadruple digit number of days....
... don't we deserve our battle scars? To wear our bruises with pride?
there are lots of silver players who been here a year and might now want to pay 300 bucks for a LTS , not like they are getting stuff for free.
True , but this is like waiting in line for a 1000 days and having someone w/a credit card cut in the line .
It's not about ppl getting LTS's . I'm always happy to see more Liberated Borg around . This is about taking the term "veteran" and literally emptying it of meaning .
You cannot be a veteran and not have a single STF under your belt , or little to no understanding of the skill tree .
You cannot be a veteran and still ask where Admiral Quinn's office is or where to go to play Foundry missions (or never hearing about he Foundry at all) .
You have no problem with ppl getting all the vet percs "gangnam style" ?
I have no problem with ppl getting LTS's .
But I do think that to be a "vet" you have to walk the walk -- and that makes me no more "entitled" then your thinking makes you "enlightened" or "socialist" or "communist" or "capitalist" .
I now refuse to turn on my "vet" title (which is 998 days as of today) , because CRYPTIC HAS TURNED IT INTO A JOKE . A BAD SAD JOKE .
This is about Cryptic being lazy once again , and instead of sprucing up the LTS awards so that a LTS becomes more attractive on it's own merits , they took the Vet merits and dumped them on the LTS accounts .
And since these ships are no longer a Vet award , but a LTS award ... -- where's my 1000 day Vet Award Cyptic ?
(see , the last part of that sentence WAS actually full of entitlement ... since Cryptic stole my vet award.)
Btw, doesn't Gold membership give you a discount in the z-store?
Pfft! No. It gives you $5 worth of points a month for spending $15 (1/3rd value), or $300 in a lump sum (1/60th value... which you'll earn back eventually... if the game lasts five years). No discount, just a stipend so small it takes you about half a year to buy one ship... so small you can't afford a new shirt...
I would say it's more about showing the dedication you had when the fate of the game was very much in question (and this around the time Hellgate and that cops and robbers MMO were crashing and burning at their launches). I'd say it's more about showing that you were willing to take that risk and invest early on. That you're still here after the Year of Hell where we all had about 11 months with just about zero new content that wasn't a CStore item, while the game was still sub-based, so that Cryptic could make the switch over to F2P. That you're still here after F2P when your subscription got ridiculously devalued by their hair-brained idea to make ending a monthly sub not remove the things you'd unlocked for subbing. That you're still here after P2W. Here after dropping the ball on PvP for three years. Dropping the ball on the KDF for three years. Still here after... everything.
I'd say a lot of people would like it as a badge of honor that they've but up with all of Cryptic's bull **** for a quadruple digit number of days....
... don't we deserve our battle scars? To wear our bruises with pride?
Pfft! Who never buys Zen? The stipend is a pittance and is only worth a damn if you buy maybe one item a year. You make more Zen grinding Dilithium and exchanging it than you do from the pitiful little stipend Cryptic gives out...
Explain to me how you help the game when you grind Dilithium in order to get Zen?
The only way you help the game is by spending real money in it. I am not sayin that you do not but some people certainly do.
And devs get paid with real money, not Dilithium or Zen. Lifesubs sold a year ago are not paying the devs actual salaries. They always need new incomes and that special deal of Lifetime subs will certainly help them and the game.
I too will not be turning back on my Career Officer title (for some weird reason I was changed back to a non-com while I was away from the game for the last several weeks)...,
Though to be honest I never used it during the hey-day of ATARI either, I actually only adopted it when PWE turned all of us into "PWE-Supporters" at the last forum over-haul...
I would rather be a nasty-smelly-old-jock-strap, than admitting to be one of those.:eek:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Explain to me how you help the game when you grind Dilithium in order to get Zen?
I don't. Who said I did? And who said it benefited the game? (though really, it actually does as it creates product for people to buy with Zen, thus incentive for them to buy Zen)
The point is that the stipend is so pathetically low that Dilithium grinding, even in small amounts, will earn you more Zen.
I don't. Who said I did? And who said it benefited the game? (though really, it actually does as it creates product for people to buy with Zen, thus incentive for them to buy Zen)
The point is that the stipend is so pathetically low that Dilithium grinding, even in small amounts, will earn you more Zen.
Oh i see. We were just not talking about the same thing. And yes, the stipend is not worth much but again, they gave it to us free and it is worth 5$. It is like your 15$ sub is reduced to 10$. No big deal but still, it is something.
Never know what breathe will be your last eh? So will the game still be around for your 60th?
I think a lot of people who had blind faith in the game just walked into a pole today.
But heck what do I know.
They may have made many old players angry and want to leave, but they just won many new and semi old players who will take the place of the old bitter players.
They may have made many old players angry and want to leave, but they just won many new and semi old players who will take the place of the old bitter players.
just a thought
This game needs new blood and new money anyway
Let's get rid of all these old grumpy Lifetime squatters i say!
The game is still very playable and this hardly diminishes it's enjoyability...
But it certainly puts my feelings toward the future choices the Makers of the game make, into a tail spin...
I have never before, really spoken out against the monetary decisions that They have made in the past to keep the game viable...
And I can understand the reason in trying to create ways to bring in more funds...
I just wish They hadn't diminished the value of the time and money that many of us have already invested in the game, in the process of achieving that goal.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
They may have made many old players angry and want to leave, but they just won many new and semi old players who will take the place of the old bitter players.
just a thought
Actually It's refering to a converation yesterday I had with him-it's his 54th birthday this month and I said the game might not be around for his 60th - all these people jumped all over me as a doom and gloom
But I stand by the fact that nothing is set in stone and this just like any other day could be a going out of business sale more than a Vet rewards sale - to think it's not possible is silly.
Let's get rid of all these old grumpy Lifetime squatters i say!
Ramble on...
Just remember... if it hadn't been for us Grumpy Lifetime Squatters, ...
You Wouldn't Have a Game to Play Now.
All of the Lifetime Subs sold in the first year...,
Not only helped to get the game launched, but it also kept ATARI alive long enough to be able to sell the game to PWE.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yes, we are thankful for your contribution. We just wished you were as thankful for it too.
I haven't changed my feelings toward the game, just a bit toward the Folks running it..,
They are the ones who seem to have forgotten to be Thankful.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
So they won't shoot themselves it the foot for a one time monetary boost? I think my odds of an OP Vesta just got better!
Problem being that LTSers are already sold. They aren't devaluing the rest of their subscription options for us because... there are no more subscription options for us. They also aren't devaluing their monthly sub because they already did that when making the leap to F2P by making unlocks retainable after "downgrading" to Silver. The monthly sub has no value beyond the first month now (unless you fail to see how it works and sub at the beginning then don't bother leveling your characters while you're Gold).
Realistically this isn't a bad business decision (like an OP Vesta would be)... it's a bad PR move. A good business decision poorly done, and badly relayed. They should have announced this previously, or waited. They also should have made a token gesture to the early adopters first a title and a few trinkets.
All-in-all this could gave been a good move all around if they'd handled it better. But Cryptic always fails there. It's a theme, and explains why word of mouth for their games has been relatively poisonous since the day Champions launched. I swear to God their PR and marketing departments are staffed exclusively by lobotomized chimps.
Let's get rid of all these old grumpy Lifetime squatters i say!
Finally someone with sense. Send them to the dilithium mines to grind until their penance it up!!! Give them a new sack cloth uniform and shaved heads until they have groveled their apologies to the new blood!!! Punish all the lazy lifers!!! Unless, of course, they have the "Perfectworld's PayPal Patsy" accolade or the "Cryptic Capitalist Crony" title given to those that have bought zen points every month or are in the top 10% of spenders since launch.
Problem being that LTSers are already sold. They aren't devaluing the rest of their subscription options for us because... there are no more subscription options for us. They also aren't devaluing their monthly sub because they already did that when making the leap to F2P by making unlocks retainable after "downgrading" to Silver. The monthly sub has no value beyond the first month now (unless you fail to see how it works and sub at the beginning then don't bother leveling your characters while you're Gold).
Realistically this isn't a bad business decision (like an OP Vesta would be)... it's a bad PR move. A good business decision poorly done, and badly relayed. They should have announced this previously, or waited. They also should have made a token gesture to the early adopters first a title and a few trinkets.
All-in-all this could gave been a good move all around if they'd handled it better. But Cryptic always fails there. It's a theme, and explains why word of mouth for their games has been relatively poisonous since the day Champions launched. I swear to God their PR and marketing departments are staffed exclusively by lobotomized chimps.
So what you are saying is that you are 100% certain they won't do an OP Vesta for another year-end sales blip? No chance they would make a move like that at all?
So what you are saying is that you are 100% certain they won't do an OP Vesta for another year-end sales blip? No chance they would make a move like that at all?
There's a chance they'll all use hatchets to hollow themselves out some monkey carcasses and start wearing them as hats and start a new fashion trend that will become all the rage in Paris.
There's a chance of anything.
The question is never whether or not there's a chance, the question is how likely something is...
There's a chance they'll all use hatchets to hollow themselves out some monkey carcasses and start wearing them as hats and start a new fashion trend that will become all the rage in Paris.
There's a chance of anything.
The question is never whether or not there's a chance, the question is how likely something is...
Well the I guess you are saying that there is as much chance of them making an OP Vesta as there is them keeping any promises to KDF players?
Gotta say, I'm with the people AGAINST LTS auto-getting all Veteran Rewards. It's a cheap way for them to try to grab new LTS, and their $200-$300 each. And honestly, this would NOT sway me to buy an LTS if I did not already have one.
Seriously though... the easy fix for this, at least for me and the OP, is to make all in-game titles, and the forum title, that are derived from "Veteran Status," still require the time spent subscribed. I could honestly, at this point, care less if he gets all the other Veteran Rewards, but I'd like for there to be recognition that the actual Veterans DID wait for their rewards.
But, sadly, Cryptic... or rather, PWE, isn't going to do that, and we all know it. They're in it for the quick buck.
Original Join Date: January 2010 Original Name: -Gen-Alaris Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
I don't see why anyone would care. New LTS purchasers will not in any capacity influence previous LTS purchasers' gameplay.
STO has virtually no incentive for one to purchase a monthly subscription beyond the foundry, let alone a LTS. This was a great idea. In fact, I might actually buy a LTS now. Before this change I would never have even considered it.
Whoa, I just read the front page blog, I can't say I like the idea that new lifetime subs will get all the current veteran rewards. It demeans the nature of veteran rewards.
I don't see how it "demeans" the nature of the reward. The concept of "vet days" is an old school pre-PWE practice in the part of Cryptic. Its a game, simple as that. Life time are extremely expensive, so such a perk given instantly is fine by me - by the way I'm (852/900) so I'm only about 5 months away in receiving the 1000 day Vet award. Whether I get it now or 5 months from now I could care less - Lifers have been screwed from the get go, especially at the dawn of F2P - this helps to ease a Lifer's woe.
Veteran Rewards were something special, something that long time players could really benefit from..
Again what so special about them? What benefit did it bring? The only thing I see was an excuse for folks to display their new shiny toy at best. Bragging rights that you own a LT account and have been playing since ancient Rome. Meaningless if you ask me. The accounts are very expensive to begin with, and every LIFER got screwed balled ever since F2P began. The Cryptic love for Lifers faded - everyone knows that.
but now everyone can get them with new lifetime subs? I don't like that, it makes the veteran rewards less unique and meaningful. It dumbs it down.
Less unique? Meaningful? Dumbed down? What exactly does that all mean anyways? Why shouldn't a new comer Lifer received the perks that we already had enjoyed for over a year now. It pointless to be honest. You can still feel unique if thats what you want since Silver and Gold subscribers do not get a Lifer's perk.
Pretty soon everyone's gonna have all the same rewards at Gold/Lifetime/Long-Time Players, and there will be no differences between long-time players and new players. Perhaps that is their goal, to meld the two? But as a long-time player, who is past 900 days, been playing since open beta, and who bought the lifetime in year 1 of this game, I feel like you are taking uniqueness away from me. Making my 3 years of playing, less meaningful. We should be rewarded for our time in this game, and just giving it away to new lifetime subs takes that away from those of us that have been in this game for several years.
So just because you were first in line it gives you the right to protest a sound business practice on Lifer account sales. You're still going to play STO regadless, you still will reap the benefits. Its utterly pointless in my eyes to whine about such a insignificant matter.
You worried about being a clone in a video game. In the end its a game and thats all that matters. Play Hard, Make Friends, and enjoy the game
Comments
This opens up for more lifers to get the 1000+ rewards at the same time as everyone else.
Though at this point all those on m2m Gold should just jump to LTS if you think the game is going to survive another year. If not, stay m2m because that's where you are getting your money's worth.
Sunk cost are assets that are written off. Not even accounted for in the books, unless you've sold it for cash, and then it appears during the fiscal year.
Btw, doesn't Gold membership give you a discount in the z-store?
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
I'm going to go with....No
LMAO! I've bought so many Master Keys that all my chars should be allowed to wear Latinum crowns over their head.
Great idea! I love it! These titles would make more sense than titles just for being subbed.
True , but this is like waiting in line for a 1000 days and having someone w/a credit card cut in the line .
It's not about ppl getting LTS's . I'm always happy to see more Liberated Borg around .
This is about taking the term "veteran" and literally emptying it of meaning .
You cannot be a veteran and not have a single STF under your belt , or little to no understanding of the skill tree .
You cannot be a veteran and still ask where Admiral Quinn's office is or where to go to play Foundry missions (or never hearing about he Foundry at all) .
You have no problem with ppl getting all the vet percs "gangnam style" ?
I have no problem with ppl getting LTS's .
But I do think that to be a "vet" you have to walk the walk -- and that makes me no more "entitled" then your thinking makes you "enlightened" or "socialist" or "communist" or "capitalist" .
I now refuse to turn on my "vet" title (which is 998 days as of today) , because CRYPTIC HAS TURNED IT INTO A JOKE . A BAD SAD JOKE .
This is about Cryptic being lazy once again , and instead of sprucing up the LTS awards so that a LTS becomes more attractive on it's own merits , they took the Vet merits and dumped them on the LTS accounts .
And since these ships are no longer a Vet award , but a LTS award ... -- where's my 1000 day Vet Award Cyptic ?
(see , the last part of that sentence WAS actually full of entitlement ... since Cryptic stole my vet award.)
Pfft! No. It gives you $5 worth of points a month for spending $15 (1/3rd value), or $300 in a lump sum (1/60th value... which you'll earn back eventually... if the game lasts five years). No discount, just a stipend so small it takes you about half a year to buy one ship... so small you can't afford a new shirt...
Explain to me how you help the game when you grind Dilithium in order to get Zen?
The only way you help the game is by spending real money in it. I am not sayin that you do not but some people certainly do.
And devs get paid with real money, not Dilithium or Zen. Lifesubs sold a year ago are not paying the devs actual salaries. They always need new incomes and that special deal of Lifetime subs will certainly help them and the game.
So be it...
But some of us feel differently.
I too will not be turning back on my Career Officer title (for some weird reason I was changed back to a non-com while I was away from the game for the last several weeks)...,
Though to be honest I never used it during the hey-day of ATARI either, I actually only adopted it when PWE turned all of us into "PWE-Supporters" at the last forum over-haul...
I would rather be a nasty-smelly-old-jock-strap, than admitting to be one of those.:eek:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I don't. Who said I did? And who said it benefited the game? (though really, it actually does as it creates product for people to buy with Zen, thus incentive for them to buy Zen)
The point is that the stipend is so pathetically low that Dilithium grinding, even in small amounts, will earn you more Zen.
Oh i see. We were just not talking about the same thing. And yes, the stipend is not worth much but again, they gave it to us free and it is worth 5$. It is like your 15$ sub is reduced to 10$. No big deal but still, it is something.
Never know what breathe will be your last eh? So will the game still be around for your 60th?
I think a lot of people who had blind faith in the game just walked into a pole today.
But heck what do I know.
They may have made many old players angry and want to leave, but they just won many new and semi old players who will take the place of the old bitter players.
just a thought
This game needs new blood and new money anyway
Let's get rid of all these old grumpy Lifetime squatters i say!
But it certainly puts my feelings toward the future choices the Makers of the game make, into a tail spin...
I have never before, really spoken out against the monetary decisions that They have made in the past to keep the game viable...
And I can understand the reason in trying to create ways to bring in more funds...
I just wish They hadn't diminished the value of the time and money that many of us have already invested in the game, in the process of achieving that goal.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Actually It's refering to a converation yesterday I had with him-it's his 54th birthday this month and I said the game might not be around for his 60th - all these people jumped all over me as a doom and gloom
But I stand by the fact that nothing is set in stone and this just like any other day could be a going out of business sale more than a Vet rewards sale - to think it's not possible is silly.
Ramble on...
Just remember... if it hadn't been for us Grumpy Lifetime Squatters, ...
You Wouldn't Have a Game to Play Now.
All of the Lifetime Subs sold in the first year...,
Not only helped to get the game launched, but it also kept ATARI alive long enough to be able to sell the game to PWE.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'll bring pitchforks!
Yes, we are thankful for your contribution. We just wished you were as thankful for it too.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Also important to remember: Churn relies heavily on word of mouth.
One should watch what bridges they burn.
So they won't shoot themselves it the foot for a one time monetary boost? I think my odds of an OP Vesta just got better!
Only when one cares about said bridges .
But hey , it's all about NWN now , so ... yeah .
I'd thank you too ... if you'd waited in line .
I haven't changed my feelings toward the game, just a bit toward the Folks running it..,
They are the ones who seem to have forgotten to be Thankful.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Problem being that LTSers are already sold. They aren't devaluing the rest of their subscription options for us because... there are no more subscription options for us. They also aren't devaluing their monthly sub because they already did that when making the leap to F2P by making unlocks retainable after "downgrading" to Silver. The monthly sub has no value beyond the first month now (unless you fail to see how it works and sub at the beginning then don't bother leveling your characters while you're Gold).
Realistically this isn't a bad business decision (like an OP Vesta would be)... it's a bad PR move. A good business decision poorly done, and badly relayed. They should have announced this previously, or waited. They also should have made a token gesture to the early adopters first a title and a few trinkets.
All-in-all this could gave been a good move all around if they'd handled it better. But Cryptic always fails there. It's a theme, and explains why word of mouth for their games has been relatively poisonous since the day Champions launched. I swear to God their PR and marketing departments are staffed exclusively by lobotomized chimps.
Finally someone with sense. Send them to the dilithium mines to grind until their penance it up!!! Give them a new sack cloth uniform and shaved heads until they have groveled their apologies to the new blood!!! Punish all the lazy lifers!!! Unless, of course, they have the "Perfectworld's PayPal Patsy" accolade or the "Cryptic Capitalist Crony" title given to those that have bought zen points every month or are in the top 10% of spenders since launch.
So what you are saying is that you are 100% certain they won't do an OP Vesta for another year-end sales blip? No chance they would make a move like that at all?
There's a chance they'll all use hatchets to hollow themselves out some monkey carcasses and start wearing them as hats and start a new fashion trend that will become all the rage in Paris.
There's a chance of anything.
The question is never whether or not there's a chance, the question is how likely something is...
Well the I guess you are saying that there is as much chance of them making an OP Vesta as there is them keeping any promises to KDF players?
I think the former is spectacularly unlikely. I think the latter depends on a number of factors... but is spectacularly unlikely.
Seriously though... the easy fix for this, at least for me and the OP, is to make all in-game titles, and the forum title, that are derived from "Veteran Status," still require the time spent subscribed. I could honestly, at this point, care less if he gets all the other Veteran Rewards, but I'd like for there to be recognition that the actual Veterans DID wait for their rewards.
But, sadly, Cryptic... or rather, PWE, isn't going to do that, and we all know it. They're in it for the quick buck.
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
STO has virtually no incentive for one to purchase a monthly subscription beyond the foundry, let alone a LTS. This was a great idea. In fact, I might actually buy a LTS now. Before this change I would never have even considered it.
I don't see how it "demeans" the nature of the reward. The concept of "vet days" is an old school pre-PWE practice in the part of Cryptic. Its a game, simple as that. Life time are extremely expensive, so such a perk given instantly is fine by me - by the way I'm (852/900) so I'm only about 5 months away in receiving the 1000 day Vet award. Whether I get it now or 5 months from now I could care less - Lifers have been screwed from the get go, especially at the dawn of F2P - this helps to ease a Lifer's woe.
Again what so special about them? What benefit did it bring? The only thing I see was an excuse for folks to display their new shiny toy at best. Bragging rights that you own a LT account and have been playing since ancient Rome. Meaningless if you ask me. The accounts are very expensive to begin with, and every LIFER got screwed balled ever since F2P began. The Cryptic love for Lifers faded - everyone knows that.
Less unique? Meaningful? Dumbed down? What exactly does that all mean anyways? Why shouldn't a new comer Lifer received the perks that we already had enjoyed for over a year now. It pointless to be honest. You can still feel unique if thats what you want since Silver and Gold subscribers do not get a Lifer's perk.
So just because you were first in line it gives you the right to protest a sound business practice on Lifer account sales. You're still going to play STO regadless, you still will reap the benefits. Its utterly pointless in my eyes to whine about such a insignificant matter.
You worried about being a clone in a video game. In the end its a game and thats all that matters. Play Hard, Make Friends, and enjoy the game