That's kind of a typical Cryptic reaction though. Made a mistake? Let's double-down on it instead or owning up to it. And now they are treating it like an exploit/cheat/hack, erasing any reference to the ship. It just goes to demonstrate the continuing decay of QA in game.
Or MAYBE there are contractual issues with the Wells or another ship... and the leaking COULD scare off a third party who owns the design. Unlikely.
But ESPECIALLY if we're talking about a design that, say, CBS doesn't own but is trying to buy, something that Cryptic doesn't have any legal rights to develop yet.
I think the community is being a bit immature on this.
Cryptic works on things internally that have not been approved and sometimes that they don't have legal rights for. Like the J.J. Abrams uniforms and the Kzinti. Or CERTAIN ships.
And the release of these things could cost large amounts of money or sink the game.
So the release shouldn't happen. The release of these kinds of things can cost people their jobs. I'm sure there's a lively post-mortem being had today. And I not only understand deleting the threads, I'd have been half tempted to shut down the game and the website for maintenance until a fix could be put in.
It's not some silly leak Cryptic is overreacting to. Its avoiding liability for a massive lawsuit.
Well whatever their reason, removal of proof makes very little sense, and only hurts them.
Again, we're bordering on moderation discussion here. Let's not go there. Let's just keep to discussion and no pictures and we (should) be good
It could be (at least in the case of one of those) that the model was thrown together to demonstrate to a copyright owner and that it was meant to be shown to them first as part of negotiations. Let's work with Cryptic on this even if we can't necessarily understand.
Unless the 29th Century Wells class is retconned to be a replica of a 25th Century ship.
This got me to thinking -- actually, wouldn't you -want- your timeship to look like something from the timeframe it was going to be visiting? You've got a choice: have the locals going "Hey, what's that, a silhouette that's not in any databanks?!?" or "Nothing of import on sensors. Some asteroids, old Miranda refit . . . " Surely choosing the more ubiquitous style of ship hull would be more conducive to stealthy operations.
Of course, I suppose the most popular solution is likely to throw techobabble at it -- the ship should have an advanced array of holoemitters that can be programmed to mimic a wide variety of ships from different eras. But a simple solution that would have far less 'maintenance' would be to use a hull design that was widely-used for a large span of time. (Thus the earlier Miranda reference.)
Or at least use a design that existed in some prior timeframe and is still 'structurally appropriate' to the fancy drive systems and such the timeship requires. Which could be how/why the thing looks like a 25th-century ship? Just a thought.
This sounds like another face plant mistake with shoe laces tied that someone from cryptic should be talking about with transparency, as they used to say they would do so.
Or MAYBE there are contractual issues with the Wells or another ship... and the leaking COULD scare off a third party who owns the design. Unlikely.
But ESPECIALLY if we're talking about a design that, say, CBS doesn't own but is trying to buy, something that Cryptic doesn't have any legal rights to develop yet.
I think the community is being a bit immature on this.
Cryptic works on things internally that have not been approved and sometimes that they don't have legal rights for. Like the J.J. Abrams uniforms and the Kzinti. Or CERTAIN ships.
And the release of these things could cost large amounts of money or sink the game.
So the release shouldn't happen. The release of these kinds of things can cost people their jobs. I'm sure there's a lively post-mortem being had today. And I not only understand deleting the threads, I'd have been half tempted to shut down the game and the website for maintenance until a fix could be put in.
It's not some silly leak Cryptic is overreacting to. Its avoiding liability for a massive lawsuit.
If any one of those conditions were true, by your own statements cryptic shouldn't have even drawn the thing, never mind made it includable in game somehow. And since they did do something they shouldn't have done, should have then made sure that no one could see that they did something they shouldn't have done in the first place. Blaming the playerbase for their error is just unprofessional. It should cost people their jobs. It is a silly leak, and your entire statement is just supposition and conjecture.
If they could've gotten sued for doing it, they shouldn't have done it. Bad decision.
There is still no plausib;e story for how it would exist as a ship players could play
the old ships can be refited - they alredy existed
The NX story was weak - that they made a copy with new materials
but to say that starfleet corp of engineers is going to come out with a timeship from the future that Voyager encountered - just doesn't make any kind of sense - and in fact would be a complete paradox
and would be stopped by the Temporal agency
The Doctor's armband is a paradox.
As for timeships, check out the registry numbers.
The Relativity on Voyager is the NCV-474439-G.
The NCV-474439 should already be in service based on registry numbers. (Prefix doesn't affect number. The NX-01 would become the NCC-01 after its shakedown.) By naming conventions established in Star Trek, it means the Federation has already got the FIRST Relativity in service (and that it developed it sometime since the Dominion War)... and since names of ships tend to be consistent with mission...
The Federation already has a time fleet in service.
And I'll point out a bit of hypocrisy with the Prime Directive. It prohibits providing underdeveloped species with technology or influencing them, yes?
But it doesn't prohibit US from going to more advanced species (First Federation, Halkans, Borg technology, Q, El Aurians, etc.) and learning from them. So what we prohibit OUR people doing to less advanced species, we actively seek out from more advanced species.
Which takes us to the Temporal Prime Directive, something I'm not sure Janeway even fully understood. Looking for consistency with the Prime Directive, I'd wager... That the Temporal Prime Directive outlaws meddling with the past.
HOWEVER... That the position of Starfleet is to actively borrow, stripmine, reverse engineer, or steal as much future technology as you can get your hands on... and that any reservations Picard or Janeway had come down to them misunderstanding the TPD or simply being out of step with Starfleet's own policies.
Or MAYBE there are contractual issues with the Wells or another ship... and the leaking COULD scare off a third party who owns the design. Unlikely.
What in the world are you talking about?
But ESPECIALLY if we're talking about a design that, say, CBS doesn't own but is trying to buy, something that Cryptic doesn't have any legal rights to develop yet.
So you are saying they are breaking the law by even having it in the game?
So you are saying they are breaking the law by even having it in the game?
Those things happen all the time in various industries. No one waits to get an official "OK" first. They simply do mock-ups. When Cryptic was trying to convince CBS to let them take over Perpetual's license they did a complete game mock-up with ships and in-game combat to show to CBS - and some of that material was probably owned by third parties but was used for the presentation, anyway.
One of the first C-Store ship Skins Cryptic was going to release for the game was vetoed by CBS AFTER Cryptic had already released the image to the forum. They don't want more of those instances.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Saw it in Strabase Fl?eet defense some minutes ago.
Typical work from Cryptic that they are making something for Federation gameplay again and leave the KDF out.
If you've been following any of the threads you'd know there's some KDF surprises that leaked out as well.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Saw it in Strabase Fl?eet defense some minutes ago.
Typical work from Cryptic that they are making something for Federation gameplay again and leave the KDF out.
The Klingons are getting their own time ship too, called the Kolath.
We know it is a time ship because it is named after the Klingon Kolath from VOY: Endgame the klingon who was giving Janeway the temporal portal device.
If any one of those conditions were true, by your own statements cryptic shouldn't have even drawn the thing, never mind made it includable in game somehow. And since they did do something they shouldn't have done, should have then made sure that no one could see that they did something they shouldn't have done in the first place. Blaming the playerbase for their error is just unprofessional. It should cost people their jobs. It is a silly leak, and your entire statement is just supposition and conjecture.
If they could've gotten sued for doing it, they shouldn't have done it. Bad decision.
There's nothing wrong with them drawing it. They can make the Millenium Falcon or Homer Simpson's head or Superman flying in outer space for internal use if they like as long as they never patch it live.
It's not about blame. It's about saving somebody's job. The forums and the game should have just shutdown until a fix was in.
Let's say you've got a situation where somebody made a mistake and the legal damages could basically be more than Cryptic's annual profits. It's not about fault. It's about damage control.
Let's say, I dunno, that Kestrel was copying and pasting a speech from a transcript of a TNG episode, working on fixing a line of dialogue. And say she goofed and copy-pasted a line in from James Joyce's Ulysses, which she was also reading. And suddenly there's profanity in a Cryptic mission.
Now... What the heck do you do about that? Do you fire her? Do you wind up on international cable news, start dealing with lawsuits that seek damages beyond the company's annual profit? Or do you say, "We don't talk about this. We're investigating" and shut down anything damaging?
The Klingons are getting their own time ship too, called the Kolath.
We know it is a time ship because it is named after the Klingon Kolath from VOY: Endgame the klingon who was giving Janeway the temporal portal device.
Dude! Make him work for it a little bit.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
So you are saying they are breaking the law by even having it in the game?
Not breaking the law. More of a tort.
Here ya go:
Tort law deals with situations where a person's behavior has unfairly caused someone else to suffer loss or harm. A tort is not necessarily an illegal act but causes harm. The law allows anyone who is harmed to recover their loss. Tort law is different from criminal law, which deals with situations where a person's actions cause harm to society in general. A claim in tort may be brought by anyone who has suffered loss. Criminal cases tend to be brought by the state, although private prosecutions are possible.
Not breaking the law. Could be liable for money or lead to termination of discussions.
And I'll point out a bit of hypocrisy with the Prime Directive. It prohibits providing underdeveloped species with technology or influencing them, yes?
But it doesn't prohibit US from going to more advanced species (First Federation, Halkans, Borg technology, Q, El Aurians, etc.) and learning from them. So what we prohibit OUR people doing to less advanced species, we actively seek out from more advanced species.
Originally it only prohibited influencing pre-warp civilizations. Warp was used as the 'line in the sand' defining 'advanced.'
That got muddied a lot in TNG and beyond, but it is unclear the extent to which the Directive itself changed, or the extent to which individual captains understood it.
And it has never been an absolute. If a 'less advanced' civilization declares war on the Federation, the PD does not obligate them to suicide to prevent 'interference.' Generally if the other race is in a position to send envoys to the Feds, the rules change.
Which takes us to the Temporal Prime Directive, something I'm not sure Janeway even fully understood. Looking for consistency with the Prime Directive, I'd wager... That the Temporal Prime Directive outlaws meddling with the past.
HOWEVER... That the position of Starfleet is to actively borrow, stripmine, reverse engineer, or steal as much future technology as you can get your hands on... and that any reservations Picard or Janeway had come down to them misunderstanding the TPD or simply being out of step with Starfleet's own policies.
The purpose to avoiding meddling with the past is pretty obvious. Unless you are doing something that has already been taken into account in the timeline, it can change the present. In other words, it is self preservation not to meddle. Accepting meddling from the future doesn't carry the same risk, since it doesn't undo the present, merely redirects it.
The purpose to avoiding meddling with the past is pretty obvious. Unless you are doing something that has already been taken into account in the timeline, it can change the present. In other words, it is self preservation not to meddle. Accepting meddling from the future doesn't carry the same risk, since it doesn't undo the present, merely redirects it.
All the more reason to keep it out of player hands. The Wells Class causes multiple plot holes by just existing, giving it to players would just defile it even further.
Edit: Have I mentioned it's ugly yet? Cause it is.
None that I'm aware of. Can you please post links. I was on a business trip and had no regular internet connection?
No Links or this thread goes boom like the rest.
And stoleviathan99 I wish more folks understood what you were talking about. What companies do these people work at that they don't understand the concept of "internal use only".
STOleviathan99, you do know that cryptic can make changes to the game anytime they want, don't you ????
IF there was any legal issue with the wells class ship which could cause legal financial problems with cryptic you can bet the game would have came down for emergency maintenance to remove the ship...
The fact they haven't brought the game down to remove the ship means that there are no pressing legal issues and cryptic are just trying to do their usual "lets keep thing hush hush and don't spoil the surprise" tactics....
In fact their current actions put me more in mind of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum because their "surprise" is ruined than a company trying to protect themselves from legal issues....
If two people are discussing a business deal, then it is normally kept between them. If one party starts leaking aspects of the deal prematurely, it can at best harm the business deal and at worst could sink it completely.
It could lead to the other party deciding they can play hardball because the first party is being too interested, or could cause hard feelings if the other party thinks their acceptance is being taken for granted.
And meanwhile, it can cause false exceptions among customers, should the deal fall through or turn out different than expected.
Its like announcing an engagement before the would be fiancee has said yes. Not announcing it is not a matter of hiding anything. It is a matter of any announcement being premature.
STOleviathan99, you do know that cryptic can make changes to the game anytime they want, don't you ????
IF there was any legal issue with the wells class ship which could cause legal financial problems with cryptic you can bet the game would have came down for emergency maintenance to remove the ship...
The fact they haven't brought the game down to remove the ship means that there are no pressing legal issues and cryptic are just trying to do their usual "lets keep thing hush hush and don't spoil the surprise" tactics....
In fact their current actions put me more in mind of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum because their "surprise" is ruined than a company trying to protect themselves from legal issues....
They can't bring down the game in the middle of a Friday just to patch up a leak. Do you think they would rather boot 1000's of users out of the game or just delete some threads in a forum? What sounds more reasonable to you? THey'll plug the hole durring a regular maintinance window.
They can't bring down the game in the middle of a Friday just to patch up a leak. Do you think they would rather boot 1000's of users out of the game or just delete some threads in a forum? What sounds more reasonable to you? THey'll plug the hole durring a regular maintinance window.
This was discovered yesterday, so they could have done it in the middle of the night.
All the more reason to keep it out of player hands. The Wells Class causes multiple plot holes by just existing, giving it to players would just defile it even further.
Edit: Have I mentioned it's ugly yet? Cause it is.
Wait, where is this a player ship? I thought it was just 'seen in game' (and in the foundry)
Foundry missions are just fan-fiction. They are not plot affecting.
Comments
That would violate the temporal prime directive and a 29th century Wells would be sent to correct it.
Well whatever their reason, removal of proof makes very little sense, and only hurts them.
Hurts them how exactly?
Or MAYBE there are contractual issues with the Wells or another ship... and the leaking COULD scare off a third party who owns the design. Unlikely.
But ESPECIALLY if we're talking about a design that, say, CBS doesn't own but is trying to buy, something that Cryptic doesn't have any legal rights to develop yet.
I think the community is being a bit immature on this.
Cryptic works on things internally that have not been approved and sometimes that they don't have legal rights for. Like the J.J. Abrams uniforms and the Kzinti. Or CERTAIN ships.
And the release of these things could cost large amounts of money or sink the game.
So the release shouldn't happen. The release of these kinds of things can cost people their jobs. I'm sure there's a lively post-mortem being had today. And I not only understand deleting the threads, I'd have been half tempted to shut down the game and the website for maintenance until a fix could be put in.
It's not some silly leak Cryptic is overreacting to. Its avoiding liability for a massive lawsuit.
Again, we're bordering on moderation discussion here. Let's not go there. Let's just keep to discussion and no pictures and we (should) be good
It could be (at least in the case of one of those) that the model was thrown together to demonstrate to a copyright owner and that it was meant to be shown to them first as part of negotiations. Let's work with Cryptic on this even if we can't necessarily understand.
This got me to thinking -- actually, wouldn't you -want- your timeship to look like something from the timeframe it was going to be visiting? You've got a choice: have the locals going "Hey, what's that, a silhouette that's not in any databanks?!?" or "Nothing of import on sensors. Some asteroids, old Miranda refit . . . " Surely choosing the more ubiquitous style of ship hull would be more conducive to stealthy operations.
Of course, I suppose the most popular solution is likely to throw techobabble at it -- the ship should have an advanced array of holoemitters that can be programmed to mimic a wide variety of ships from different eras. But a simple solution that would have far less 'maintenance' would be to use a hull design that was widely-used for a large span of time. (Thus the earlier Miranda reference.)
Or at least use a design that existed in some prior timeframe and is still 'structurally appropriate' to the fancy drive systems and such the timeship requires. Which could be how/why the thing looks like a 25th-century ship? Just a thought.
If any one of those conditions were true, by your own statements cryptic shouldn't have even drawn the thing, never mind made it includable in game somehow. And since they did do something they shouldn't have done, should have then made sure that no one could see that they did something they shouldn't have done in the first place. Blaming the playerbase for their error is just unprofessional. It should cost people their jobs. It is a silly leak, and your entire statement is just supposition and conjecture.
If they could've gotten sued for doing it, they shouldn't have done it. Bad decision.
OP *is* the new balance, whether you know it or not! Gecko says so.
Season 7 - Exodus, available online. U buy nao!
http://seekingalpha.com/article/738221-monetizing-perfect-world-s-latest-update
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Doctor's armband is a paradox.
As for timeships, check out the registry numbers.
The Relativity on Voyager is the NCV-474439-G.
The NCV-474439 should already be in service based on registry numbers. (Prefix doesn't affect number. The NX-01 would become the NCC-01 after its shakedown.) By naming conventions established in Star Trek, it means the Federation has already got the FIRST Relativity in service (and that it developed it sometime since the Dominion War)... and since names of ships tend to be consistent with mission...
The Federation already has a time fleet in service.
And I'll point out a bit of hypocrisy with the Prime Directive. It prohibits providing underdeveloped species with technology or influencing them, yes?
But it doesn't prohibit US from going to more advanced species (First Federation, Halkans, Borg technology, Q, El Aurians, etc.) and learning from them. So what we prohibit OUR people doing to less advanced species, we actively seek out from more advanced species.
Which takes us to the Temporal Prime Directive, something I'm not sure Janeway even fully understood. Looking for consistency with the Prime Directive, I'd wager... That the Temporal Prime Directive outlaws meddling with the past.
HOWEVER... That the position of Starfleet is to actively borrow, stripmine, reverse engineer, or steal as much future technology as you can get your hands on... and that any reservations Picard or Janeway had come down to them misunderstanding the TPD or simply being out of step with Starfleet's own policies.
What in the world are you talking about?
So you are saying they are breaking the law by even having it in the game?
Back about the timeship - I still think no way as a playable ship - lets focas on getting the VESTA!!!
Wells as a NPC in some kind of featured contend arc would be amazing though.
Typical work from Cryptic that they are making something for Federation gameplay again and leave the KDF out.
One of the first C-Store ship Skins Cryptic was going to release for the game was vetoed by CBS AFTER Cryptic had already released the image to the forum. They don't want more of those instances.
The Klingons are getting their own time ship too, called the Kolath.
We know it is a time ship because it is named after the Klingon Kolath from VOY: Endgame the klingon who was giving Janeway the temporal portal device.
There's nothing wrong with them drawing it. They can make the Millenium Falcon or Homer Simpson's head or Superman flying in outer space for internal use if they like as long as they never patch it live.
It's not about blame. It's about saving somebody's job. The forums and the game should have just shutdown until a fix was in.
Let's say you've got a situation where somebody made a mistake and the legal damages could basically be more than Cryptic's annual profits. It's not about fault. It's about damage control.
Let's say, I dunno, that Kestrel was copying and pasting a speech from a transcript of a TNG episode, working on fixing a line of dialogue. And say she goofed and copy-pasted a line in from James Joyce's Ulysses, which she was also reading. And suddenly there's profanity in a Cryptic mission.
Now... What the heck do you do about that? Do you fire her? Do you wind up on international cable news, start dealing with lawsuits that seek damages beyond the company's annual profit? Or do you say, "We don't talk about this. We're investigating" and shut down anything damaging?
How MATURE is it to want to talk about it?
None that I'm aware of. Can you please post links. I was on a business trip and had no regular internet connection?
Look up to my post.
We're not allowed to link to picture but I gave you info.
Not breaking the law. More of a tort.
Here ya go:
Not breaking the law. Could be liable for money or lead to termination of discussions.
Um, ok. Now can you please explain this?
Originally it only prohibited influencing pre-warp civilizations. Warp was used as the 'line in the sand' defining 'advanced.'
That got muddied a lot in TNG and beyond, but it is unclear the extent to which the Directive itself changed, or the extent to which individual captains understood it.
And it has never been an absolute. If a 'less advanced' civilization declares war on the Federation, the PD does not obligate them to suicide to prevent 'interference.' Generally if the other race is in a position to send envoys to the Feds, the rules change.
The purpose to avoiding meddling with the past is pretty obvious. Unless you are doing something that has already been taken into account in the timeline, it can change the present. In other words, it is self preservation not to meddle. Accepting meddling from the future doesn't carry the same risk, since it doesn't undo the present, merely redirects it.
All the more reason to keep it out of player hands. The Wells Class causes multiple plot holes by just existing, giving it to players would just defile it even further.
Edit: Have I mentioned it's ugly yet? Cause it is.
No Links or this thread goes boom like the rest.
And stoleviathan99 I wish more folks understood what you were talking about. What companies do these people work at that they don't understand the concept of "internal use only".
IF there was any legal issue with the wells class ship which could cause legal financial problems with cryptic you can bet the game would have came down for emergency maintenance to remove the ship...
The fact they haven't brought the game down to remove the ship means that there are no pressing legal issues and cryptic are just trying to do their usual "lets keep thing hush hush and don't spoil the surprise" tactics....
In fact their current actions put me more in mind of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum because their "surprise" is ruined than a company trying to protect themselves from legal issues....
If two people are discussing a business deal, then it is normally kept between them. If one party starts leaking aspects of the deal prematurely, it can at best harm the business deal and at worst could sink it completely.
It could lead to the other party deciding they can play hardball because the first party is being too interested, or could cause hard feelings if the other party thinks their acceptance is being taken for granted.
And meanwhile, it can cause false exceptions among customers, should the deal fall through or turn out different than expected.
Its like announcing an engagement before the would be fiancee has said yes. Not announcing it is not a matter of hiding anything. It is a matter of any announcement being premature.
They can't bring down the game in the middle of a Friday just to patch up a leak. Do you think they would rather boot 1000's of users out of the game or just delete some threads in a forum? What sounds more reasonable to you? THey'll plug the hole durring a regular maintinance window.
This was discovered yesterday, so they could have done it in the middle of the night.
Wait, where is this a player ship? I thought it was just 'seen in game' (and in the foundry)
Foundry missions are just fan-fiction. They are not plot affecting.