I have experienced quite often in my life that if people say about an idea "it won't work", that means nothing. Even if those people are experts in their field. One would have to try it out so see if it works.
He chose to ignore the fact again that it has been tested.
I have experienced quite often in my life that if people say about an idea "it won't work", that means nothing. Even if those people are experts in their field. One would have to try it out so see if it works.
Hey Soph! Jumping off a tall building is a bad idea!
(Now? Did I make you want to try it? Thats right... I thought not... :rolleyes: )
You circle around the enemy capital ships. So you run away from the drones, not from the fight. That will work well with beam escorts and cruisers, not so much with cannon builds, obviously.
Just beam escort doesn't suck bad enough? You propose people torun beam ARRAY escorts??
She is wrong plain and simple. Leave her to her delusions cause it doesn't matter how logical your argument She likes the attention she gets being the girl that disagrees all the time.
We should ask cryptic to change the old escorts from the game to allow dual cannons in the rear, so an escort can run csv while runs from drones. Lulz.
Truth is that no sane team would go on a queue with 5 carriers, unless they are totally cheese. And more than that, no team will think will encounter 5 carriers (or for that reason more than 2), so nobody will go prepared with tac dps cruisers either (which is another unlikely team setup). Thing is, to be honest, even with snb the time of recharge is push from 10 sec to what, 20? And carriers usually carry sci team, so thats not even a reliable counter. We are talking of very unrealistic scenarios here, what I think is worth to mention is that we need to have a look into all drains and resists. And everything that deals with power drain should be resisted. Not saying countered, but resisted. Complete stuns for more than 1-2 secs should not be available.
On a side note, reading blackjack post few pages behind, I saw the snb reference. I would be ok with the way is now, if there would be an ability like tac initiative (even If that has a higher cool down than snb, but only a little higher) that could counter better the cool downs from snb. Not the way tac initiative used to be, when all cool downs were instantly reset definitely. And definitely sci needs some love. Other than being a sci fanatic the only reliable reason for making a sci tune IMO right now is the snb for pvp. Somebody mentioned that even in pve that's only good for donatra. Lol. And engis are not better either. Other than tanking to the point of insanity, which is still not enough if focused and without enough team support.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
So, does anyone else believe that the simplest solution to fix the Siphon Drones is to in fact equip the siphon drone pets with the Energy Siphon ability? I believe by doing so we kill three issues.
1. First, the Siphon Drones will not be able to threaten a continuous drain to their target.
2. Secondly, the Energy Siphon resistance seemingly is working whereas the drain effect could be mitigated with proper skill point usage and perhaps console and deflector bonuses.
3. Thirdly, Energy Gain abilities and consumables will be effective in mitigating power draining.
Does anyone see a real issue with giving Siphon Drones the Energy Siphon ability, exactly the same ability as the rank I Energy Siphon Bridge Officer Ability of the Science Profession?
I know. It has been tried before. The results I have seen are quite bad.
You've seen it? Not just heard about it?
It went bad? You're saying tall buildings are OP? You know, there are counters! Like parachutes! Ofc, if the parachute was made by cryptic, and had a hole the size of a car in it, I might agree that buildings are OP, but that's just semantics to you unless it's tried and tested, right? So if you would call your umbrella a parachute and use it when jumping off a building.. and it would end badly... it would be because you did it wrong. Not because your equipment was not up to the task. Right?
Hmm... haven't had a 1v1 build in a year or two... guess I could shuffle around a few things. We'll see if we're ever on together and I'm not busy
(come to think of it, I have a beam-bortas that I guarantee would do stalemate or better. I'm not guaranteeing victory, cause if you run, i'll spend the whole night turning around. I do however guarantee that if you stay in range it'll burn you... But that would only prove a beam cruiser is stronger than a beam escort )
Broadside escorts will do just fine...not as big a spike, but very nasty dps over time, enough to kill.
Sustained DPS will kill a n00b, or a weak pug group. Sustained damage as a team vs team strategy has only been done succefully for two periods during STOs history. One was when Scatter Volley was broken, the other when DBB-FAW was broken. Without these broken abilities, healing in STO simply outweighs the maximum possible damage output.
So, does anyone else believe that the simplest solution to fix the Siphon Drones is to in fact equip the siphon drone pets with the Energy Siphon ability? I believe by doing so we kill three issues.
1. First, the Siphon Drones will not be able to threaten a continuous drain to their target.
2. Secondly, the Energy Siphon resistance seemingly is working whereas the drain effect could be mitigated with proper skill point usage and perhaps console and deflector bonuses.
3. Thirdly, Energy Gain abilities and consumables will be effective in mitigating power draining.
Does anyone see a real issue with giving Siphon Drones the Energy Siphon ability, exactly the same ability as the rank I Energy Siphon Bridge Officer Ability of the Science Profession?
I think we should have resists working as they should first. Your idea IMO is great as long as you're not the carrier. Lol. And I really hate when Criptic slams the nerf hammer too hard on something. I think the way siphons were intended was not so much for power gain on receiver but for power drain. It's just that once you're caught, there is not much you can do, and this needs to be fixed somehow, but not too well, lol.
I would like, as we were mentioning before, to see a way too boost your power by some numbers in case it happens to be drained at 0. Let's face it, focusing a target when it has 10-20 power level max, won't make siphons worthless.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I think we should have resists working as they should first. Your idea IMO is great as long as you're not the carrier. Lol. And I really hate when Criptic slams the nerf hammer too hard on something. I think the way siphons were intended was not so much for power gain on receiver but for power drain. It's just that once you're caught, there is not much you can do, and this needs to be fixed somehow, but not too well, lol.
I would like, as we were mentioning before, to see a way too boost your power by some numbers in case it happens to be drained at 0. Let's face it, focusing a target when it has 10-20 power level max, won't make siphons worthless.
Wait just one second, how is it only a good idea if you are not the carrier? I say four drones all hitting me with the Energy Siphon rank I ability from the Bridge Officer Science Profession Abilities; isn?t anything to scoff at? even if resisted a bit. It would be like having four players hit you with it all at once. Sure, it will hurt, but then again, it isn?t the continuous, I can never have power again, drain that the Siphon Drones do now.
Why do you feel it isn?t fair on the Carrier again?
Broadside escorts will do just fine...not as big a spike, but very nasty dps over time, enough to kill.
I cannot really disagree here, but what would that mean for the game design?
Would it even worth thinking about abandoning the classes altogether and just have people make exclusive choices for certain abilities over the various levels?
In ds9 I think there was a heavy assault cruiser, with 2 bridges and tons of goodies. So dhc like damage broadside won't be uncommon cannon wise. I think some mods of bridge commander had this ship too.
I want this baby with the same weapon layout. And lots of siphon drones. This way I can go by myself against a premade and stand a chance, lol.
This is what I would have made as a carrier, not Armitage. Lol. Escort carrier... Why not a bop carrier? With cloacked siphons... Ok enough babbling, geko may read this and get some crazy ideas, lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Sophie, until you get yourself a premade that can get a couple kills against TSI and SP teams you just need to keep quite. You're arguing from complete ignorance, and it's no surprise that everyone who does fly in premades knows how wrong you are. Do you really think that you know better than the rest of the PvP community about something you have no knowledge of? You're either delusional or you're trolling.
How about we get back on topic? Yeah, very, very few people agree with soph. for obvious reasons of inexperience in 5vs5 PVP. We don't need to counter troll him for it however.
We don't need to counter troll him for it however.
We do it because our trolling resistance is broken, and we fail because the counters are inadequate. He's becoming a metaphor for Siphon Drones... wait... I just checked in game... They're actually called Sophin' Drones!
We do it because our trolling resistance is broken, and we fail because the counters are inadequate. He's becoming a metaphor for Siphon Drones... wait... I just checked in game... They're actually called Sophin' Drones!
So how about a re-cap on ideas to fix the Siphin Drones? :P
So how about a re-cap on ideas to fix the Siphin Drones? :P
Well, it's quite easy, and I think we all agree on what must happen:
Conclusion:
- Sophin' Drones MUST be subject to resists, like any drain ability.
- Counters that fix other drains must also work against Sophin' Drones
I think the only thing we're still debating here, is how badly broken the current Drones are. Some say OP and some say IWIN.
No, I am not. I have played hundreds of matches since January. You may like the fact that people disagree with you or not, but explaining disagreement with "the other guy does not know what he's talking about" is not very mature.
i remember last january, i really thought i basically had it all figured out. i cant believe how much i have learned since then, and ive been doing almost nothing but pvp for a year and a half, and succeeding very well at it most of that time. just to put in perspective how little amount of time and experience 'since January' actually is.
I am quite, thanks. In case you mean quiet, I must inform you that I have scored kills against members of TSI and SP in pugs, that suffices for me. No, I did not make videos.
Your fascination with the artificial sports event that is 5v5 Anrea is sad, by the way. Promote more open PvP please.
No, I am not. I have played hundreds of matches since January. You may like the fact that people disagree with you or not, but explaining disagreement with "the other guy does not know what he's talking about" is not very mature.
Our disagreement essentially revolves around whether you can win against an energy drain build or not. I say it is possible, as I have done it, some others say it is not, as they were unable to.
It is completely possible that the only ones that can be defeated are making mistakes others don't make, and that I have not encountered the latter category.
But please, entertain the possibility that it is your fault, not my oponnents'.
More like the 4 other guys on the team scored the kills that you just happened to be present for.
Please, you have "hundreds" to your credit. We have thousands, if not tens of thousands of matches. I probably have more victories, than you have losses and victories combined, since january. You also, it's quite established play against pugs and scrubs at your best. You don't fight premade v premade, you don't fight pug v premade. You fight on the low end of the scale, against people with low end equipment and strategic thinking.
I hope you are aware that if one and a half years are not sufficient to know everything, then two and a half years will not be, either.
way to miss the point. still convinced your right i see. during that 1st year plus i thought i know everything, the entire forum didn't denounce everything i posted as wrong. so your not even to that point yet, at the rate your going the game will be shut down before then.
Comments
He chose to ignore the fact again that it has been tested.
(Now? Did I make you want to try it? Thats right... I thought not... :rolleyes: ) Just beam escort doesn't suck bad enough? You propose people torun beam ARRAY escorts??
Yeah... I'm trying not to be trolled...
Truth is that no sane team would go on a queue with 5 carriers, unless they are totally cheese. And more than that, no team will think will encounter 5 carriers (or for that reason more than 2), so nobody will go prepared with tac dps cruisers either (which is another unlikely team setup). Thing is, to be honest, even with snb the time of recharge is push from 10 sec to what, 20? And carriers usually carry sci team, so thats not even a reliable counter. We are talking of very unrealistic scenarios here, what I think is worth to mention is that we need to have a look into all drains and resists. And everything that deals with power drain should be resisted. Not saying countered, but resisted. Complete stuns for more than 1-2 secs should not be available.
On a side note, reading blackjack post few pages behind, I saw the snb reference. I would be ok with the way is now, if there would be an ability like tac initiative (even If that has a higher cool down than snb, but only a little higher) that could counter better the cool downs from snb. Not the way tac initiative used to be, when all cool downs were instantly reset definitely. And definitely sci needs some love. Other than being a sci fanatic the only reliable reason for making a sci tune IMO right now is the snb for pvp. Somebody mentioned that even in pve that's only good for donatra. Lol. And engis are not better either. Other than tanking to the point of insanity, which is still not enough if focused and without enough team support.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
1. First, the Siphon Drones will not be able to threaten a continuous drain to their target.
2. Secondly, the Energy Siphon resistance seemingly is working whereas the drain effect could be mitigated with proper skill point usage and perhaps console and deflector bonuses.
3. Thirdly, Energy Gain abilities and consumables will be effective in mitigating power draining.
Does anyone see a real issue with giving Siphon Drones the Energy Siphon ability, exactly the same ability as the rank I Energy Siphon Bridge Officer Ability of the Science Profession?
It went bad? You're saying tall buildings are OP? You know, there are counters! Like parachutes! Ofc, if the parachute was made by cryptic, and had a hole the size of a car in it, I might agree that buildings are OP, but that's just semantics to you unless it's tried and tested, right? So if you would call your umbrella a parachute and use it when jumping off a building.. and it would end badly... it would be because you did it wrong. Not because your equipment was not up to the task. Right? Hmm... haven't had a 1v1 build in a year or two... guess I could shuffle around a few things. We'll see if we're ever on together and I'm not busy
(come to think of it, I have a beam-bortas that I guarantee would do stalemate or better. I'm not guaranteeing victory, cause if you run, i'll spend the whole night turning around. I do however guarantee that if you stay in range it'll burn you... But that would only prove a beam cruiser is stronger than a beam escort
Sustained DPS will kill a n00b, or a weak pug group. Sustained damage as a team vs team strategy has only been done succefully for two periods during STOs history. One was when Scatter Volley was broken, the other when DBB-FAW was broken. Without these broken abilities, healing in STO simply outweighs the maximum possible damage output.
I think we should have resists working as they should first. Your idea IMO is great as long as you're not the carrier. Lol. And I really hate when Criptic slams the nerf hammer too hard on something. I think the way siphons were intended was not so much for power gain on receiver but for power drain. It's just that once you're caught, there is not much you can do, and this needs to be fixed somehow, but not too well, lol.
I would like, as we were mentioning before, to see a way too boost your power by some numbers in case it happens to be drained at 0. Let's face it, focusing a target when it has 10-20 power level max, won't make siphons worthless.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Wait just one second, how is it only a good idea if you are not the carrier? I say four drones all hitting me with the Energy Siphon rank I ability from the Bridge Officer Science Profession Abilities; isn?t anything to scoff at? even if resisted a bit. It would be like having four players hit you with it all at once. Sure, it will hurt, but then again, it isn?t the continuous, I can never have power again, drain that the Siphon Drones do now.
Why do you feel it isn?t fair on the Carrier again?
In ds9 I think there was a heavy assault cruiser, with 2 bridges and tons of goodies. So dhc like damage broadside won't be uncommon cannon wise. I think some mods of bridge commander had this ship too.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Achilles_class
I want this baby with the same weapon layout. And lots of siphon drones. This way I can go by myself against a premade and stand a chance, lol.
This is what I would have made as a carrier, not Armitage. Lol. Escort carrier... Why not a bop carrier? With cloacked siphons... Ok enough babbling, geko may read this and get some crazy ideas, lol.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
We've all seen your "Escort" and it got it's face punched in in less than 10 seconds against a Vorcha Refit.
No, just your validity of giving opinions on how to build an escort for Anything. Let alone anti carrier duties.
Too late. You people should be posting these ideas on facebook. not here. Did Cloaking Tractor Mines, not teach us anything?
Wait a second... you're saying he can't be both? :eek:
We do it because our trolling resistance is broken, and we fail because the counters are inadequate. He's becoming a metaphor for Siphon Drones... wait... I just checked in game... They're actually called Sophin' Drones!
So how about a re-cap on ideas to fix the Siphin Drones? :P
Well, it's quite easy, and I think we all agree on what must happen:
Conclusion:
- Sophin' Drones MUST be subject to resists, like any drain ability.
- Counters that fix other drains must also work against Sophin' Drones
I think the only thing we're still debating here, is how badly broken the current Drones are. Some say OP and some say IWIN.
i remember last january, i really thought i basically had it all figured out. i cant believe how much i have learned since then, and ive been doing almost nothing but pvp for a year and a half, and succeeding very well at it most of that time. just to put in perspective how little amount of time and experience 'since January' actually is.
More like the 4 other guys on the team scored the kills that you just happened to be present for.
Please, you have "hundreds" to your credit. We have thousands, if not tens of thousands of matches. I probably have more victories, than you have losses and victories combined, since january. You also, it's quite established play against pugs and scrubs at your best. You don't fight premade v premade, you don't fight pug v premade. You fight on the low end of the scale, against people with low end equipment and strategic thinking.
way to miss the point. still convinced your right i see. during that 1st year plus i thought i know everything, the entire forum didn't denounce everything i posted as wrong. so your not even to that point yet, at the rate your going the game will be shut down before then.