So, in the thread that got closed, I pointed out that I ran the counters that Sophokles is advocating, and the result was that with only one carrier on the field, I could (barely) keep up with the spam, and do NOTHING ELSE. The reply was 'What did you or your team do wrong', which I didn't get to reply to. Here is my reply:
The mistake I made was thinking like you do. I tried to put enough counters in my build that I could keep up with the relentless waves of siphon drones etc, thinking I would somehow be 'winning' those engagements. The reality of the situation was that far from winning, I was at best keeping even, because the effort I was expending on just countering the pets was so great that I had nothing 'left' to fight the carrier with in the tiny windows I had where there were no drones present. That's really the TLDR, the rest of this is me being very detailed and a bit pedantic, so I understand if you leave it at that:)
You seem to be thinking that if a ship dedicates the vast bulk of its resources to negating the pets a carrier spawns, that is somehow an advantage. It isn't. In a one on one situation, it means yeah, you won't die from the pets (and you MIGHT not die to the carrier, if you have a decent tank and know how to use it), BUT it also means that you will never, ever beat the carrier, because you will be so busy dealing with the pets that you can never put enough dmg together in an alpha strike to break through any decent carrier's tank. So, yay, I bring a tailor built counter to siphons, and at best I get a stalemate 1 v 1. Already, this seems like a problem (remember, you want 1 v 1 fights to always terminate, right?).
In a team, the situation is actually WORSE, as it means my team is always automatically down one effective ship, just sweeping up the spam, and that's assuming there's only one carrier on the field. Once you get multiple carriers in the mix, countering the pets becomes simply impossible for any one ship to handle (I mean literally impossible, given the max number of targets AOE powers can hit, versus the number of incoming targets). So, now what? Lose yet another ship to spam duty? Or lose a ship to siphon draining? Either way, it's a loss.
Now, to deal with predictable counters:
1) You say "my experience is different that yours (and imply that your experience is the superior standard to judge by)". Response: Possible, but unlikely - probably none of the hardcore PVP community knows me well, as I don't often talk in OPvP, I'm not part of any premades, and what little people do know is probably not that impressive - I run a Beamscort MVAE, do okay in most pug queue matches, and generally just try to have fun. In short, I am 'average' - I know why running beams isn't smart, but do it anyway. I ran [Borg] mod weapons in matches just because I was too lazy to get Acc mod weapons, etc. The point is, if I, as a fairly experienced but altogether average player can't make your advice work, then your counters aren't good enough for the general population, so shouldn't be held up as any kind of far-reaching solution.
2) You retry "You used the counters wrong" - Response: First, your reasoning is circular - the counters work, so I must have used them wrong, therefore my evidence is invalid because the counters work. Second: Weapon power 125+, FAW2 x 2, TS 1 x 2, APO3, APB 2, 4 MKXII blue phaser consoles, Beam Arrays and torps front/rear, both PDS consoles, Theta vent console, stacking Tac captain buffs when I could. My experience was that I made a mess of pets for like 30 seconds at a time, but because doing so put so many powers on GCD that even if I had somehow run Beam Overload or some other spike powers, they wouldn't have refreshed before another wave of pets was incoming, and with two carriers, all those counters were insufficient. Thus, unable to contribute to my team beyond spam clearance, and even then I wasn't enough. You say I used them wrong. Show me how. (Oh, ps switched from Danubes to Peregrines after first death - Peregrines on 'escort' didn't seem to help either)
3) "Your build was wrong" - see above - Also, I would add that TS alone is useless against advanced siphon drones because they have shields, and even FAW is dicey since it takes more than one hit to knock one down (Usually like 3-4, in my experience). I was forced to use BOTH powers together to kill a wave, which means your 7.5 seconds figure was actually 15 seconds in practice.
4) "I don't engage in text battles" - That's why I gave you detailed info from actual in-game use. If you've got actual experience with this to back up your claims, by all means, post it. I don't even mean 'screens or it didn't happen', I just mean explain the flow of the battle and how you managed to use them correctly. Just know that unless you can explain how I should be getting my torps to one-shot advanced drones through shields, I'm not buying the claims you're making about recharge times vs respawn times, etc.
Thanks for the breakdown of how you managed to have a stalemate. I had also gone through all these scenarios with different loadouts, captains and abilities. Also, you hit the nail on the head by saying your build was too busy fighting pets to actually battle the person in pvp which automaticly meant you were one man dow in your team. This is the experience Soph seriously lacks (team based pvp)and does not fully understand or comprehend this angle of the pvp mechanics.
On a different note i have come up with build that doesnt rely on any energy based counters including any emergency power to counter drains. It was tested about an hour ago in the arena against a carrier and a cruiser 2 v 1. It had very good results. If i did 1v1 with the carrier i could kill it. 2 v 1 i survived for at least 5 minutes. Thanks goes to the klingon fleet for helping me test it. I'm gonna be cheeky for now and say it will be trademark Sad Panda hax until a certain premade match has occured this weekend
I don't really see what there is to discuss. Broken mechanics are talked about in the forums to the EXTREME, and very little tends to be done, there are likely dozens of threads wih all this in by now. Why do another?
This guy is absolutely right all the time things are blown out of proportion
Drone have been here since the start of sto and I haven?t herd so much b***hing till a few weeks ago.
Their slow
They have dumb ai, ( which will alter target base on taunt skill)
They are the easiest pet to kill
did I mention there so slow
I know by far Zeadonouse my kdf has one of the best drain builds in game, and I can tell you I would never take drones ever, and I tested them pretty thorough. The only people who get caught are the people unaware of there surroundings. all you need to do is boost your engine power or use faw, and/or damage aoe will kill all drones in sec
By the way do you know why there are so many drain builds going around because it?s one of the last viable sci abilities in game, all the others have been nerf into uselessness.
Give me my shield strippers back
Give me my area denial , the good old grave well ( no escape b***hes)
Drain and pound are the only ways to go sci we need a yell for buff sci so people can actually build cool old builds, and not just cannon escort of heal boats which gets really boring.
You want to nerf drones fine Idc they are not a threat imo.
Nerf all energy drain, ya I see a problem with that, lets just throw away one of the last viable sci abilities and just close the book on all science as a whole. Sarcasm.
We need to Buff sci abilities back to their former glory.
We need shield strippers again
We need people to be scared of grav well again.
We need sci abilities to change the tide of battle again, so this isn?t cruisers online.
While also buffing ET and ST to compete against TT.
Not changing ET but buffing it to bring back all power levels to preset for 10 sec(not efficient power level, base power levels) . So VM or drain will not be noticeable during that duration once it is over the ship will loose hard cap and will be stuck in the same situation instantly it would have been in if it did not have ET .
Et1 = 25% base power
ET2=50% base power
ET3= 75% base power
ST needs to raise critical chance by 10% per level so ST3 is 30% chance.
Now people will deviate from TT = better counter, situational needs, teams will be calling for all dif types of teams. People will now not ignore the other away teams.
I also say take away global cool downs for away teams and just add 5 sec to the CD.
Drones nerf them Idc there not usful now anyways, and I know it hurts to have engine shut down then they swarm comes, sh** happens. I also hate when I got shield phaser proc in alphas.
Sh** happens in pvp, but pod can be out run and destroyed easily.
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions Zeadonouse ToLate
I said this a while ago and now again, carriers must have a limited number of wings per encounter and use them strategically, is totally op that anigiven carrier can drop unlimited wings and in fact is unrealistic just make them more durable maybe giving them a EPSI or ETI.
Less spam and carriers commanders have to use more their brains, and less OP.
On activation of beams or cannons, provides a .05% Chance to Remove Currently Applied Buffs.
I have two of these DOFFs, I question whether or not the text is accurate. At most I've seen it remove one persons buff, but not several at one time But PvPing and keeping an eye on targets timers/buffs is difficult when their skills are jumping all over the place.
This guy is absolutely right all the time things are blown out of proportion
Drone have been here since the start of sto and I haven?t herd so much b***hing till a few weeks ago.
.
it was around that time that one of the best counters to them was removed. the hard hitting photonic shockwave.
the reason theres more and more complaining about them is that cryptic has yet to fix their drain resistance, and continues to nerf/remove powers to remove them.
I dont think Soph has got the message yet. A fully spec'd siphon spammer can bypass ANY emergency power to X level. I have tested this thoroughly myslef. I'm sure Hilbert would agree with me. It's like throwing a glass of water on a house fire to try and put it out. You might see your energy blip up but your back to nothing again.
Its strange how he sticks to EWP so much. No variation of power boosting ability would work vs a fully spec'd siphon carrier so wasting a bo slot to do so would just be a waste of time.
This only leaves you with 1 option - a build that ignores power levels to do dps and heal yourself. This means pure kinetic damage and team abilities. That was the basis of my counter and it worked.
It did sufficient clean up duties and also hurt the opposition which is the whole point of this thread. Also, the kinetic damage dealing abilities worked better on this ship with less power as well.
Guess what it also didnt have any emergency power abilities.
The ship has sailed on saving PVP in this game if that hasn't become glaringly obvious at this point. Let's just say for the sake of argument they go ahead and dedicate some serious resources to fixing it, though nothing in the track record would suggest this to be true. It would take a long time to do and require a pretty massive overhaul that at the same time needs not to disrupt the PVE community too much. Further, what would really be the point? The population started off pretty small and has only shrunk. It will continue to shrink over the next 6 months would be my guess as well. Why?
Well right around the corner are some new MMO's that put a much larger focus on PVP. Mech Warrior Online, Guild Wars 2, and Planetside2 just to name a few. In all honesty do you see more PVP people coming over to STO when it has created a reputation for TRIBBLE pvp or going to try one of those three I just mentioned? Sure some Star Trek nerds might come check out STO if they have not already but think most of them are drawn to PVP? Of course they are not. Are more current PVE'ers in game going to decide to try out PVP for some reason? Probably not based off three years of experience showing most don't.
What STO had was a pretty damn good space combat platform in the beginning. What they have done with it, for the most part, is make it worse. I almost can't think of a single "improvement" to PVP they have made since launch other then changing the old SNB/VM combo.....oh and getting rid of stacking target subsystems I guess. Some might disagree but there used to be a hell of a lot more population on both factions and a much more active community.
There is no open world pvp, no faction driven pvp, no starbase pvp, increasingly becoming a 1 faction pvp game, no new maps, no new pvp modes besides arena and C&H, ship imbalances, more Harry Potter wizardry abilities then ever before, stupid consoles, more carrier and mine spam....blah blah blah....
Quick show of hands.....how many are even still dinking around with this game because they are simply waiting for something new to come out? But to answer the question on **** to fix:
1. Get rid of the stupid carrier spam TRIBBLE on both sides besides plain old fighters...
2. Rework extend shields to limit its range and provide some type of "cost" to the caster...ie he takes part of the incoming damage to his shields
3. reduce all power drains or increase resistances
4. If you are not going to do away with FVK then just merge the KDF and FEDs into 1 faction. Give equal access to all missions, ships, consoles, equipment, doffs etc.
5. Rework SNB....I dont care that it strips all of your buffs but the CD effect on your abilities suck.
6. Buff Science captains so that they actually serve a purpose other then flying SNB casters. It's a stupid ability yet most teams bring three because SNB is so powerful.....kind of ties into #2.
That is everything I can think of off the top of my head....sure I forgot a few.
I was a bit puzzled about your post until I realized that you must have read "EWP" as "Emergency Power To Weapons", while it, of course, really means "Eject Warp Plasma".
Stand corrected. Even so how can youuse that ability if you are stationary? No power to engines.
If you activate EWP while the drones are on you and your sitting there, the Warp Plasma will form a cloud around you - which will also encompass the drones. You can then see beautiful little yellow numbers, and then small explosions four seconds or so later.
Unfortunately, this saves you for the duration of EWP. When it ends, you're toast.
Now, it is not - it is just negating the siphon drones, which enables the team to attack the carrier.
(...)
Well, a siphon drone clearing duty does not give the opposing faction a point. ^^
So one ship to clear the drones from one Carrier. That leaves your team 4v5 to fight players. How about 2 carriers? you go with two clearers? 3v5? or 5 carriers? 0v5? IWIN?
So, in the thread that got closed, I pointed out that I ran the counters ,
Thank you for putting this to the test. The result was, ofc, what everyone with some experience could have guess, but it's always nice to have a test to refer to!
What about the next wave less than 10 seconds later? By the time plasma comes off cool down, 6 waves of them have hit you. So back to original question, how can you maneuver if you have no power in engines to utilise ewp?
No, when it ends (it lasts about 15 seconds), you are moving again, and next time you stay away from those drones. Most ships, even my Regent, are faster than they are (and the drones don't have Evasive Maneuvers anyway). Circle around the carrier, and the drones won't catch up.
I have not encountered 5-drain-carrier teams yet, but what could actually work is the whole team chaining EWP for maintaining a big warp plasma cloud in which to take cover while shooting at one carrier after another. With 5 drain build carriers, they won't have much to counter that, and their rather low beam dps should not threaten even a stationary escort. (It's only an idea, though, maybe it is complete nonsense.)
So whats the point in doing pvp if your strategy revolves around evasiving away after ewp runs out? Refer to Dassemsto's comment. Either way the siphon team wins with your proposed solution. You dont enter an arena to survive, you enter to win.
A whole team chaining ewp isnt viable. Your sci ships would suffer the most as this would usually mean sacrificing an rsp. Also sci's are generally eng light. To kill a good team you need at least 2 sci's in a team. It is also very arrogant to underestimate carrier beams when you have minimal power to systems. They do start to hurt. It becomes a death of a thousand cuts.
Also, have you faced a karfi? They can hit almost as good as an escort when set up correctly and drain you to death whilst doing so. Seems like your strategy doesnt factor in many variables.
Most serious pvper's have this experience because personally speaking, i have at least 10 arena matches daily with at least 3 or 4 premade matches against good teams weekly. Thats the experience people li,e Husanak, Hilbert, MT bring to these debates. Thats where i really think you lack in experience and cant factor that into your solutions.
She is wrong plain and simple. Leave her to her delusions cause it doesn't matter how logical your argument She likes the attention she gets being the girl that disagrees all the time.
Its fine Sophie you spam your EWP and I hope that saves you, wouldn't want a nice girl like you getting turned off the PvP community. We love you even if you are misguided. See ya in the ques perhaps... I won't spam the siphen pods on ya... but I may tickle you with some cannons if I see ya. Have a good one.
No, when it ends (it lasts about 15 seconds), you are moving again, and next time you stay away from those drones. Most ships, even my Regent, are faster than they are (and the drones don't have Evasive Maneuvers anyway). Circle around the carrier, and the drones won't catch up.
Unfortunately I see a few problems with that.
1. If your ship is not build to broadside you cant do much dmg while circling the carrier so it would be a draw at best. So for that to work it would force everyone to use beams.
2. The carrier might react and not simply watch you little chase. There are still many things that could stop/slow you, like traget subsystem engines, tractor beam, tykens, or just a simple phaser proc
So even if you get all drones with your EWP he might just have anough cc loaded to prevent you from running in the first place until he has more drones, or he just slows you down with other abilities once you run in order to help them catch up.
3. If you are in a group you have a certain role. So if you are the healer and you have to be running away from drones you might not be in heal range or able to support your team. Now while it sounds like a viable tactic to take out the enemy healer there should not be a build that is not defeatable and simply forces you to run. It takes the fun out of the game.
The thing is, in a 1v1 there is no real way to defeat a proper drain carrier. At best you achieve a draw. Of course if he doesnt know how to distribute shields and carries no tac team you might kill him before the drones reach you but if the carrier has any clue what he is doing you are screwed. There is a reason why drain carries are the ONLY build that is not allowed in sivars 1v1 league.
Now in a group fight there are normally no 5 drain carrier groups. The main reason for that I suppose is that the pvp fleets who have premades available choose not to sink that low. In most games you encounter 1-2 drain carriers and that can be manageable. You need enough spamclearing and teamwork to help who ever gets drained.
But I can tell you even with EWP, GW and mines you have a hard time keeping the siphons under control and while you pump all your resources in fighting pets the enemy still has his ship. With two equally skilled/coordinated teams you wont stand a chance.
In the end I would say the drones do the job of a sci ship on their own. They shut down an enemy and force you to invest a lot of resources simply to keep your ships running. So you get like another player in your team that has a 10sec respawn.
That is in no way balanced.
You circle around the enemy capital ships. So you run away from the drones, not from the fight. That will work well with beam escorts and cruisers, not so much with cannon builds, obviously.
Possible. As I wrote, that's just an idea... though power levels would not be that low in a team built for being able to survive power drain builds.
I don't have the cooldown of EWP ready, I think it is 30 or 45 seconds, and last 15 seconds, so 4 copies should do for a team - two cruisers could do that alone, or 4 Armitages.
Please read my post again! Especially about 2 sci's and experience.
She is wrong plain and simple. Leave her to her delusions cause it doesn't matter how logical your argument She likes the attention she gets being the girl that disagrees all the time.
Its fine Sophie you spam your EWP and I hope that saves you, wouldn't want a nice girl like you getting turned off the PvP community. We love you even if you are misguided. See ya in the ques perhaps... I won't spam the siphen pods on ya... but I may tickle you with some cannons if I see ya. Have a good one.
Its not the argument. Its to make sure new comers to pvp understand that his advice is flawed.
I have not encountered 5-drain-carrier teams yet, but what could actually work is the whole team chaining EWP for maintaining a big warp plasma cloud in which to take cover while shooting at one carrier after another. With 5 drain build carriers, they won't have much to counter that, and their rather low beam dps should not threaten even a stationary escort. (It's only an idea, though, maybe it is complete nonsense.)
As naz already mentioned, there is the Karfi. That thing has 4/3 weapon slots, a base turn of 8 and 3 tac consoles. So you can run 4 cannons and 3 turrets, with a lt cmdr and a lt tac and chain crf. Also you get a cmdr sci so they could spawn 5 tykens in your ewp cloud. They could even combine tykens and gw in your cloud, pull you all together and use csv instead of crf.
As naz already mentioned, there is the Karfi. That thing has 4/3 weapon slots, a base turn of 8 and 3 tac consoles. So you can run 4 cannons and 3 turrets, with a lt cmdr and a lt tac and chain crf. Also you get a cmdr sci so they could spawn 5 tykens in your ewp cloud. They could even combine tykens and gw in your cloud, pull you all together and use csv instead of crf.
He clearly demonstrates the lack of experience with his comments.Its like debating with a child who refuses to acknowledge the wealth of experience others have.
GW? But then you are not running against "full energy drain builds". Also, the KarFi is rather breakable (when compared to other KDF carriers/flight deck cruisers).
Anyway, as I wrote, it was just an idea, not tested.
The karfi is one of the best Klink ships in game. I can think of a few people who can tank like hell and put out serious damage. Again experience factor shows through with your comments.
GW? But then you are not running against "full energy drain builds". Also, the KarFi is rather breakable (when compared to other KDF carriers/flight deck cruisers).
Anyway, as I wrote, it was just an idea, not tested.
Ok forget the GW if you want, it would have been just for fun. Your WP cloud wont be that big so just throw 5 tykens in there, maybe with doffs. That should drain everyone.
As for the breakable thing. Well it is a bit squishy but you still have your lt eng for 2 EPtS, your special console serves as an o **** button and there are plenty of sci slots for additional heals. Also it has quite a nice shield mod and ok hull.
Yes it was just an idea. Ideas are good but what we are trying to do is show you, that it wont work. There have been many ideas but nothing really works against drain carriers. There simply is no counter and thats the problem.
The pvp community is not simply too lazy to try or giving up there just is no way. Thats why we say the siphons are BROKEN.
I would be more than willing to take my Karfi and show you. I suppose we could muster enough people here for a 5 carrier drain group.
I might not have advanced drones but I suppose the normal ones should do.
Also you discount experience too easy. Besides we proposed a viable counter to your idea and what is your response? What would you do in your WP cloud if we spawn 5 tykens?
Comments
Thanks for the breakdown of how you managed to have a stalemate. I had also gone through all these scenarios with different loadouts, captains and abilities. Also, you hit the nail on the head by saying your build was too busy fighting pets to actually battle the person in pvp which automaticly meant you were one man dow in your team. This is the experience Soph seriously lacks (team based pvp)and does not fully understand or comprehend this angle of the pvp mechanics.
On a different note i have come up with build that doesnt rely on any energy based counters including any emergency power to counter drains. It was tested about an hour ago in the arena against a carrier and a cruiser 2 v 1. It had very good results. If i did 1v1 with the carrier i could kill it. 2 v 1 i survived for at least 5 minutes. Thanks goes to the klingon fleet for helping me test it. I'm gonna be cheeky for now and say it will be trademark Sad Panda hax until a certain premade match has occured this weekend
Peace out.
This guy is absolutely right all the time things are blown out of proportion
Drone have been here since the start of sto and I haven?t herd so much b***hing till a few weeks ago.
Their slow
They have dumb ai, ( which will alter target base on taunt skill)
They are the easiest pet to kill
did I mention there so slow
I know by far Zeadonouse my kdf has one of the best drain builds in game, and I can tell you I would never take drones ever, and I tested them pretty thorough. The only people who get caught are the people unaware of there surroundings. all you need to do is boost your engine power or use faw, and/or damage aoe will kill all drones in sec
By the way do you know why there are so many drain builds going around because it?s one of the last viable sci abilities in game, all the others have been nerf into uselessness.
Give me my shield strippers back
Give me my area denial , the good old grave well ( no escape b***hes)
Drain and pound are the only ways to go sci we need a yell for buff sci so people can actually build cool old builds, and not just cannon escort of heal boats which gets really boring.
You want to nerf drones fine Idc they are not a threat imo.
Nerf all energy drain, ya I see a problem with that, lets just throw away one of the last viable sci abilities and just close the book on all science as a whole. Sarcasm.
We need to Buff sci abilities back to their former glory.
We need shield strippers again
We need people to be scared of grav well again.
We need sci abilities to change the tide of battle again, so this isn?t cruisers online.
While also buffing ET and ST to compete against TT.
Not changing ET but buffing it to bring back all power levels to preset for 10 sec(not efficient power level, base power levels) . So VM or drain will not be noticeable during that duration once it is over the ship will loose hard cap and will be stuck in the same situation instantly it would have been in if it did not have ET .
Et1 = 25% base power
ET2=50% base power
ET3= 75% base power
ST needs to raise critical chance by 10% per level so ST3 is 30% chance.
Now people will deviate from TT = better counter, situational needs, teams will be calling for all dif types of teams. People will now not ignore the other away teams.
I also say take away global cool downs for away teams and just add 5 sec to the CD.
Drones nerf them Idc there not usful now anyways, and I know it hurts to have engine shut down then they swarm comes, sh** happens. I also hate when I got shield phaser proc in alphas.
Sh** happens in pvp, but pod can be out run and destroyed easily.
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate
Less spam and carriers commanders have to use more their brains, and less OP.
On activation of beams or cannons, provides a .05% Chance to Remove Currently Applied Buffs.
I have two of these DOFFs, I question whether or not the text is accurate. At most I've seen it remove one persons buff, but not several at one time
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
it was around that time that one of the best counters to them was removed. the hard hitting photonic shockwave.
the reason theres more and more complaining about them is that cryptic has yet to fix their drain resistance, and continues to nerf/remove powers to remove them.
science in this game needs to be adjusted.
Its strange how he sticks to EWP so much. No variation of power boosting ability would work vs a fully spec'd siphon carrier so wasting a bo slot to do so would just be a waste of time.
This only leaves you with 1 option - a build that ignores power levels to do dps and heal yourself. This means pure kinetic damage and team abilities. That was the basis of my counter and it worked.
It did sufficient clean up duties and also hurt the opposition which is the whole point of this thread. Also, the kinetic damage dealing abilities worked better on this ship with less power as well.
Guess what it also didnt have any emergency power abilities.
Well right around the corner are some new MMO's that put a much larger focus on PVP. Mech Warrior Online, Guild Wars 2, and Planetside2 just to name a few. In all honesty do you see more PVP people coming over to STO when it has created a reputation for TRIBBLE pvp or going to try one of those three I just mentioned? Sure some Star Trek nerds might come check out STO if they have not already but think most of them are drawn to PVP? Of course they are not. Are more current PVE'ers in game going to decide to try out PVP for some reason? Probably not based off three years of experience showing most don't.
What STO had was a pretty damn good space combat platform in the beginning. What they have done with it, for the most part, is make it worse. I almost can't think of a single "improvement" to PVP they have made since launch other then changing the old SNB/VM combo.....oh and getting rid of stacking target subsystems I guess. Some might disagree but there used to be a hell of a lot more population on both factions and a much more active community.
There is no open world pvp, no faction driven pvp, no starbase pvp, increasingly becoming a 1 faction pvp game, no new maps, no new pvp modes besides arena and C&H, ship imbalances, more Harry Potter wizardry abilities then ever before, stupid consoles, more carrier and mine spam....blah blah blah....
Quick show of hands.....how many are even still dinking around with this game because they are simply waiting for something new to come out? But to answer the question on **** to fix:
1. Get rid of the stupid carrier spam TRIBBLE on both sides besides plain old fighters...
2. Rework extend shields to limit its range and provide some type of "cost" to the caster...ie he takes part of the incoming damage to his shields
3. reduce all power drains or increase resistances
4. If you are not going to do away with FVK then just merge the KDF and FEDs into 1 faction. Give equal access to all missions, ships, consoles, equipment, doffs etc.
5. Rework SNB....I dont care that it strips all of your buffs but the CD effect on your abilities suck.
6. Buff Science captains so that they actually serve a purpose other then flying SNB casters. It's a stupid ability yet most teams bring three because SNB is so powerful.....kind of ties into #2.
That is everything I can think of off the top of my head....sure I forgot a few.
Stand corrected. Even so how can youuse that ability if you are stationary? No power to engines.
Unfortunately, this saves you for the duration of EWP. When it ends, you're toast.
So one ship to clear the drones from one Carrier. That leaves your team 4v5 to fight players. How about 2 carriers? you go with two clearers? 3v5? or 5 carriers? 0v5? IWIN?
Thank you for putting this to the test. The result was, ofc, what everyone with some experience could have guess, but it's always nice to have a test to refer to!
So whats the point in doing pvp if your strategy revolves around evasiving away after ewp runs out? Refer to Dassemsto's comment. Either way the siphon team wins with your proposed solution. You dont enter an arena to survive, you enter to win.
A whole team chaining ewp isnt viable. Your sci ships would suffer the most as this would usually mean sacrificing an rsp. Also sci's are generally eng light. To kill a good team you need at least 2 sci's in a team. It is also very arrogant to underestimate carrier beams when you have minimal power to systems. They do start to hurt. It becomes a death of a thousand cuts.
Also, have you faced a karfi? They can hit almost as good as an escort when set up correctly and drain you to death whilst doing so. Seems like your strategy doesnt factor in many variables.
Most serious pvper's have this experience because personally speaking, i have at least 10 arena matches daily with at least 3 or 4 premade matches against good teams weekly. Thats the experience people li,e Husanak, Hilbert, MT bring to these debates. Thats where i really think you lack in experience and cant factor that into your solutions.
She is wrong plain and simple. Leave her to her delusions cause it doesn't matter how logical your argument She likes the attention she gets being the girl that disagrees all the time.
Its fine Sophie you spam your EWP and I hope that saves you, wouldn't want a nice girl like you getting turned off the PvP community. We love you even if you are misguided. See ya in the ques perhaps... I won't spam the siphen pods on ya... but I may tickle you with some cannons if I see ya. Have a good one.
Unfortunately I see a few problems with that.
1. If your ship is not build to broadside you cant do much dmg while circling the carrier so it would be a draw at best. So for that to work it would force everyone to use beams.
2. The carrier might react and not simply watch you little chase. There are still many things that could stop/slow you, like traget subsystem engines, tractor beam, tykens, or just a simple phaser proc
So even if you get all drones with your EWP he might just have anough cc loaded to prevent you from running in the first place until he has more drones, or he just slows you down with other abilities once you run in order to help them catch up.
3. If you are in a group you have a certain role. So if you are the healer and you have to be running away from drones you might not be in heal range or able to support your team. Now while it sounds like a viable tactic to take out the enemy healer there should not be a build that is not defeatable and simply forces you to run. It takes the fun out of the game.
The thing is, in a 1v1 there is no real way to defeat a proper drain carrier. At best you achieve a draw. Of course if he doesnt know how to distribute shields and carries no tac team you might kill him before the drones reach you but if the carrier has any clue what he is doing you are screwed. There is a reason why drain carries are the ONLY build that is not allowed in sivars 1v1 league.
Now in a group fight there are normally no 5 drain carrier groups. The main reason for that I suppose is that the pvp fleets who have premades available choose not to sink that low. In most games you encounter 1-2 drain carriers and that can be manageable. You need enough spamclearing and teamwork to help who ever gets drained.
But I can tell you even with EWP, GW and mines you have a hard time keeping the siphons under control and while you pump all your resources in fighting pets the enemy still has his ship. With two equally skilled/coordinated teams you wont stand a chance.
In the end I would say the drones do the job of a sci ship on their own. They shut down an enemy and force you to invest a lot of resources simply to keep your ships running. So you get like another player in your team that has a 10sec respawn.
That is in no way balanced.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Please read my post again! Especially about 2 sci's and experience.
Its not the argument. Its to make sure new comers to pvp understand that his advice is flawed.
I'll tickle him with my torps with you
As naz already mentioned, there is the Karfi. That thing has 4/3 weapon slots, a base turn of 8 and 3 tac consoles. So you can run 4 cannons and 3 turrets, with a lt cmdr and a lt tac and chain crf. Also you get a cmdr sci so they could spawn 5 tykens in your ewp cloud. They could even combine tykens and gw in your cloud, pull you all together and use csv instead of crf.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
He clearly demonstrates the lack of experience with his comments.Its like debating with a child who refuses to acknowledge the wealth of experience others have.
The karfi is one of the best Klink ships in game. I can think of a few people who can tank like hell and put out serious damage. Again experience factor shows through with your comments.
Ok forget the GW if you want, it would have been just for fun. Your WP cloud wont be that big so just throw 5 tykens in there, maybe with doffs. That should drain everyone.
As for the breakable thing. Well it is a bit squishy but you still have your lt eng for 2 EPtS, your special console serves as an o **** button and there are plenty of sci slots for additional heals. Also it has quite a nice shield mod and ok hull.
Yes it was just an idea. Ideas are good but what we are trying to do is show you, that it wont work. There have been many ideas but nothing really works against drain carriers. There simply is no counter and thats the problem.
The pvp community is not simply too lazy to try or giving up there just is no way. Thats why we say the siphons are BROKEN.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
I might not have advanced drones but I suppose the normal ones should do.
Also you discount experience too easy. Besides we proposed a viable counter to your idea and what is your response? What would you do in your WP cloud if we spawn 5 tykens?
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!