Part of me sees it as a bunch of whining and crying that he doesn't want to do the work of finding his own friends that play like he does, and if you don't play HIS GAME the way HE THINKS, then he wants to ignore you to hell and back, and it's the dev's problem to make that easier on him. Oh, but he still wants to PUG, only PUG with a group of his choosing... which isn't a PUG at all.
The other part of me is saying I love this idea. I don't know how many trolls I've met in PUGs that spend so much time yelling, they don't contribute anything to the group, then end up rage quiting because no one is listening to him, regardless of how well the STF is doing with or without him. Those I'd love to put on a block list and never have to deal with again.
So, like I said I'm kind of mixed on this. Not because of the AFKers, but because of the trolls out there.
What will you do if the system is abused (like the chat ban can be) and you wind up getting blocked?
:eek:
Can't be happening.
As the do-not-group-lists only concern interations between exactly 2 players, adding one will not harm the ability for the blocked person to group with other people. Also the blocker and the blocked would suffer equally in their ability to group because only groups with both of them together are forbidden.
It would be more similar to the effect of the ignore buttun without the chat ban - the ignorers can't read you any more, but everyone elso can.
Only if you manage to annoy a considerable part of the population you will see a problem. I can't say that this can't happen as e.g. the ground-STF-Pugging comunity on some timezones is not that big and if you manage to get blocked by all four accounts on several dozens of pugs on the same timeslot for AFK-piking, well, you will probably see results.
If you feel that making friends and teaming together hurts an MMO, then I don't know what to tell you other than you're totally wrong. Making friends and teaming together is an integral part of a successful MMO.
Making friends and spending time together gaming -> good
Sticking to friend for the sole purpose of avoiding having to deal with strangers in a pug who might be idiots/grievers (and not because you like the company of your "friends")-> bad
What will you do if the system is abused (like the chat ban can be) and you wind up getting blocked?
:eek:
It is hard to abuse something that is personal to the player and finite in numbers. Because of this it would be hard for people to convince people to put a target on their list and waste a slot on something so pathetic as targeted greifing.
Though they would have to make it so there is no silencing to the block list, or if there is it is personal and does not work as the current ignore does. Though remove the account silencing from the ignore list neds to be done ASAP.
Part of me sees it as a bunch of whining and crying that he doesn't want to do the work of finding his own friends that play like he does, and if you don't play HIS GAME the way HE THINKS, then he wants to ignore you to hell and back, and it's the dev's problem to make that easier on him. Oh, but he still wants to PUG, only PUG with a group of his choosing... which isn't a PUG at all.
The other part of me is saying I love this idea. I don't know how many trolls I've met in PUGs that spend so much time yelling, they don't contribute anything to the group, then end up rage quiting because no one is listening to him, regardless of how well the STF is doing with or without him. Those I'd love to put on a block list and never have to deal with again.
So, like I said I'm kind of mixed on this. Not because of the AFKers, but because of the trolls out there.
I understand your quandry, let me see if I can clarify my position. I have friends and fleetmates I play with when they are online. What I am asking for is a way to avoid people who choose to act trollish or simply are using bots to harvest rewards or those who do nothing to contribute to the mission at hand. It is very aggravating to lose your time invested and a superior reward in a STF because of one person.
You know how annoying the guy who sends random fleet or team invites to form a fleet is in ESD? You politely respond no thanks but the guy keeps sending team invites. That is the type of behavior that gets the ignore list activated. Give us a choice is all I am asking for.
You should really never ever say something "would be easy to implement." While the UI for a Block list is easy to envisage, and the tools for managing it can probably be extensions of existing tools, the actual matchmaking code is not trivial.
This, right here.
This is just one reason is why I say that Cryptic might be more interested in specifically targeting AFK rather than reworking the queue system yet again.
An outright Block or ignore list would create a strong potential to splinter the queues even more than they are right now, to the point where it could become nearly impossible to fill a queue. In addition to the amount of overhead necessary to process the lists of everyone who applies to a queue. The ROI doesn't seem to be a good one there.
An Avoid list that doesn't guarantee separating players into different queues wouldn't be quite as bad. But then it doesn't completely solve the problem, does it? And the processing overhead might be worse.
Specifically targeting AFK and other such undesirable behavior* -might- be a more manageable problem to solve from Cryptic's perspective. It wouldn't run contrary to the intended way queues should work. And the other issues with player incompatibility could be addressed by -- yes -- private queues or otherwise choosing not to PUG.
*When I say undesirable behavior, I am referring to specific in-game actions that can be quantified as undesirable, such as spawn camping and the like. I doubt there is a good way to address simply not being a good team player.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
yea, i know it's easier said then done to add something like a block/avoid list.
but having the block list to avoid certain players would be worth it.
it might become a problem for the Queues but there is always problems.
comes with the territory of playing a online game.
but one problem such as the afk players. are abusing a loop hole
in the rules and exploiting it. so us the players want to take matters
into our own hands by having options such as having a block list to
not play with cheaters...
but this is just my view,other might feel differently.
Bad idea. Someone gets a connection problem, doesn't do 'what they are told' or looked down upon for not having the 'right' ship/weapons and ban they are relegated to the scrap heap.
Who gets to decide if you or the 'ignored' person is kept out of the PUG?, you would be limiting a persons chance (or your own ) to be selected and its too open to abuse (a whole fleet could get members to add a person to ignore)
Bad idea. Someone gets a connection problem, doesn't do 'what they are told' or looked down upon for not having the 'right' ship/weapons and ban they are relegated to the scrap heap.
Who gets to decide if you or the 'ignored' person is kept out of the PUG?, you would be limiting a persons chance (or your own ) to be selected and its too open to abuse (a whole fleet could get members to add a person to ignore)
I don't think its workable.
The people who have a conection problem just need to say so in zone chat. As for the players who are deliberately sabotaging the STF you are only talking about four people who may or may not put that person on ignore.
Who gets to decide? Good question the simplest answer is to base it on first person quequed. Do you realize how many people queque during any given 30 second period? A whole fleet might put someone on ignore out of how many hundreds of thousands of players on STO? Sorry not buying it. Everyone in STO has rubbed someone the wrong way at one time or another. All we are asking for is a way to avoid being quequed with them.
Come on guys... you do realize it takes .07 seconds for this search engine to preform a task. That would be the same amount of time it would take to pair up people in a queque using the parameters set forth on a avoid/block list. I for one do not buy that it cannot be done the tools already exsist. A really good programer could have this up and running in a matter of hours. This would not splinter queque times as suggested. In fact if you have a block on you it would take what maybe 3 seconds to find a team you could fit in with? Keep in mind how many thousands of people PUG and how many queques are created in say a 10 second period of time. Would it be a pain for a DEV to initially create that really depends on the skill set of the DEV? But even if it was, that is thier job, making the game more enjoyable for the paying custmers.
-> Stupid Player 1 ignores me because he doesnt like my ship.
-> Its night, only one STF queue is open (very theoretical but you get it)
-> Stupid Player 1 joined this STF, one spot left
-> I cannot join because he ignored me (without a good reason)
Just go to Kerrat for an hour or so and beat up some klingons and/or feds. You will see yourself on lot of ignore lists afterwards. Now its not like you did something bad (except from their view) and will now have a lot less queues to join into.
[QUOTE=midwayace;9470291[/QUOTE]In fact if you have a block on you it would take what maybe 3 seconds to find a team you could fit in with? Keep in mind how many thousands of people PUG and how many queques are created in say a 10 second period of time. [/QUOTE]
Thats a pretty large assumption. Somtimes I have to wait 10/15 minutes to get into a pug, somtimes even longer.
And for PVP the waiting times are huge, does your 'block' list apply for this too? if not thats another complication that must be catered for.
Along with the fact that waiting times differ hugely depending on the time of day would mean people could potentially abuse this system to grief certain players.
If you dont like the current system why not join a fleet and make sure you dont have to pug?
-> Stupid Player 1 ignores me because he doesnt like my ship.
Nothing lost there
-> Its night, only one STF queue is open (very theoretical but you get it)
You know that this is well nigh impossible there are multi queques all the time
-> Stupid Player 1 joined this STF, one spot left
-> I cannot join because he ignored me (without a good reason)
If stupid player joined first you would not even know because it would automatically queque you up for the next queque as first in line therefore you have a guaranteed spot. Bottom line you waited.07 seconds to 1.2 seconds to queque for a STF.
Just go to Kerrat for an hour or so and beat up some klingons and/or feds. You will see yourself on lot of ignore lists afterwards. Now its not like you did something bad (except from their view) and will now have a lot less queues to join into.
LOL>>>
I have spent over 3 years in Kerrat on a daily basis. Yes there are a lot of hurt feelings in Kerrat.Those people who put you on a ignore list in Kerrat are people you probably would not want to be teamed with anyway.
-> Stupid Player 1 ignores me because he doesnt like my ship.
-> Its night, only one STF queue is open (very theoretical but you get it)
-> Stupid Player 1 joined this STF, one spot left
-> I cannot join because he ignored me (without a good reason)
Just go to Kerrat for an hour or so and beat up some klingons and/or feds. You will see yourself on lot of ignore lists afterwards. Now its not like you did something bad (except from their view) and will now have a lot less queues to join into.
In fact if you have a block on you it would take what maybe 3 seconds to find a team you could fit in with? Keep in mind how many thousands of people PUG and how many queques are created in say a 10 second period of time.
Thats a pretty large assumption. Somtimes I have to wait 10/15 minutes to get into a pug, somtimes even longer.[/QUOTE]
Dude there is something seriously wrong then don't know what server you are on. The average wait time is roughly 20 seconds. I cannot recall waiting over 45 seconds at any point and I play this game 60-80 hrs a week on average.
In fact if you have a block on you it would take what maybe 3 seconds to find a team you could fit in with? Keep in mind how many thousands of people PUG and how many queques are created in say a 10 second period of time.
Thats a pretty large assumption. Somtimes I have to wait 10/15 minutes to get into a pug, somtimes even longer.
And for PVP the waiting times are huge, does your 'block' list apply for this too? if not thats another complication that must be catered for.
Along with the fact that waiting times differ hugely depending on the time of day would mean people could potentially abuse this system to grief certain players.
If you dont like the current system why not join a fleet and make sure you dont have to pug?[/QUOTE]
The chances of the avoiding player would be lowered as much as those of the avoided player, so not useful as griefing tool. But i am thinking more and more it should be implemented as separate list.
If it needs to be i would also be ok with the avoiding player looses in queue priority whenever a conflict arises, so even less of a griefing toll. No problem for me to wait a second longer and not being grouped with the afk-piker.
all this sounds ok.but there can be no fair solution.
the only solution for this issue is to basicly change the way queues work.
the afk issue is easy.the game does monitor if you are active.now if someone hasnt pushed any button or moved his mouse for say 2 minutes in an stf then he should get a warning.if within 5 minutes that person still is afk he should be banned from all queues for 1 hour.that is something simple.
about people with terrible builds or ships.they at least shouldnt be allowed to que on elite difficulty queues.the problem is on what basis do you decide that...hmmm maybe if that person hasnt done a sufficient amount of normal diff queues and successfuly completed them.
my issue is with people who see the hive ELITE que and say "oh that looks interesting lets see what happens" with out even having seen a tutorial vid in youtube before going in.
other people who dont know how to play yet think that a mission like hive can be taken care off by the other 4 players...and just enter and do nothing but get aggro and dying while making the mission a mess for the rest of us.
other people use cruisers and they think they can dps or even science ships do that!im a poor escort that gets easily popped by a tactical cube within less thatn 10 secs without support but with proper support i can rain down hell on anything thats inside my targeting reticle.i always find myself in the ackward position of having to tank, support and dps all at the same time.EDIT:i remember 1 time some people ignored me because i wouldnt tank...with an escort...and they had cruisers!yeah people like that exist.so what do you do?i remember one time it took me 45 mins to go through hive!!!make the elite missions available only to those people who can do them.make them unlockable through rep or something!
i wont even bother talking about the crystaline que.but at least some out of the 10 people you will find, someone will know how to play and you will be able to complete the mission.
am i a jerk?i dont think so.its just that in this game this phenomenon is unique.havent seen in other mmos noobs entering max difficulty dungeons in so massive numbers with such terrible builds.
people think that just because they just became VA they can take all the galaxy on their own...
i know the solution to our problem.its pretty simple.just play those queues with your fleet and friends so you wont have to deal with every little frak that wants to ruin your day.but not everyone is available daily.in the weekends there is no problem.but during the workdays of the week i am suffering.so now i just dont do anything during the work days and i only play on weekends.thats hurts my characters daily needs for dil,ec and marks.
do i over react?no.cause i work all day...and have a real life to live.i dont play 24/7.i play when i find the time.there are some bad days that all the queues are infected with people who just enter queues for the fun of it.you know...
"oh look at this shiny button...i just got to push it" attitude...and poor me that decided to have some fun for an hour has to suffer through all those people.consequently all this started when the game became f2p...
hmmmm this might be a little(just a little bit ) descriminating but i think it would be fun to make queues that can participate only subbed and LTS players.why? cause those players are actually paying for this game so its only logical to assume that most of them wont behave like the "others".
yeah actually that is a great idea!give us special queues for subbed people.this is an awesome idea.
Come on guys... you do realize it takes .07 seconds for this search engine to preform a task. That would be the same amount of time it would take to pair up people in a queque using the parameters set forth on a avoid/block list.
Even assuming you are correct about the time for a search engine to perform a task, it would be .07 times X, where X is a composite of the number of players queuing up, the number and type of available queues, etc.
And then there is the fact that this is not a search engine that's optimized for searching. It's a game doing lots of other things at the same time. And the fact that this would not be just a simple search. It's really a multilevel sorting operation in real time and that is far more processor intensive and there's a lot more logic involved.
I for one do not buy that it cannot be done the tools already exsist. A really good programer could have this up and running in a matter of hours.
Maybe so. I'm not a "really good programmer" for an MMO or otherwise, so I'm not qualified to judge how easy or not easy it is. I can say that implementing this is not on their schedule and probably won't be until they get around to a PvP re-implementation. Certainly not until after LoR launch.
This would not splinter queque times as suggested. In fact if you have a block on you it would take what maybe 3 seconds to find a team you could fit in with? Keep in mind how many thousands of people PUG and how many queques are created in say a 10 second period of time. Would it be a pain for a DEV to initially create that really depends on the skill set of the DEV? But even if it was, that is thier job, making the game more enjoyable for the paying custmers.
I don't know the numbers for how many people queue up in a 10 second window. I'm reasonably sure you don't know them either unless you're a Cryptic employee flying under the radar. In which case, you probably wouldn't be making statements like that. But I'm not talking about queue times. I'm talking about actual queues.
Nobody knows what would happen in this game if players suddenly had the ability to block whoever they want, for any reason. Even the Devs probably don't have more than a guess. If at any given time you only had to keep ten people out of the same queues, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. But you can't think that way in an MMO. You have to ask questions like, what if I have to keep ten thousand people separated at any given time? What would have happened in the CE event if there had been a block list in effect and everyone in it had their own maxed out Block list? What then?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What keeps you from sending a /friend invite to those 90%? They're on the same time as you. They don't AFK leech and by your own admission, they know what they're doing.
Heaven forbid you need to do some minimal work and socializing in an MMO. :rolleyes:
I dont randomly friend people for 1 good run, the queue system was put in place so I didnt have to make a bunch of friends just to play... I know its an mmo, but im not here to be everyones friend I am here to play STO, and that doesnt require me having anyone at all in my friends list (it never should).
I have friends who play the game, and i am also in a pretty active fleet, my point is that even with those options available not everyone wants to play stfs, it can be like pulling teeth to get a group together for premade.
[SIGPIC]InGame - @Darth_Tauri[/SIGPIC]
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
And then there is the fact that this is not a search engine that's optimized for searching. It's a game doing lots of other things at the same time. And the fact that this would not be just a simple search. It's really a multilevel sorting operation in real time and that is far more processor intensive and there's a lot more logic invoved. I'm not a "really good programmer" for an MMO or otherwise, so I'm not qualified to judge how easy or not easy it is. ?
Well Bluegeek there ARE other MMOs running this sort of system like WoW for example. Heck even X-box live has a system in place to handle a block list. Then there is the other approach that Disney takes with Pirates of The Carribean where they actually have a team of live moderators who actually investigate and take action against offenders. Gee what a concept....
Cryptic has the software and the dev tools to make this block list work. The 64 Million Dollar question is will they?
If a team breaks down, allow the members to vote to remove the leaver penalty. If three teammates agree, then everyone can just leave without the penalty.
Nobody knows what would happen in this game if players suddenly had the ability to block whoever they want, for any reason.?
Gee let's see.... more enjoyable gameplay. Gosh a troll free environment. The Roleplayers would be able to actually use the servers without griefers. Call me an optimist but more people would probably play the game. That translates into more money in the coffers which is the main reason PW owns the game. Then there is the freed up time of GMs to handle real pressing issues. It is a real win/win situation.
Gee let's see.... more enjoyable gameplay. Gosh a troll free environment. The Roleplayers would be able to actually use the servers without griefers. Call me an optimist but more people would probably play the game. That translates into more money in the coffers which is the main reason PW owns the game. Then there is the freed up time of GMs to handle real pressing issues. It is a real win/win situation.
And it would make pvp a whole lot better as well..
And it would make pvp a whole lot better as well..
It would change the way groups are formed and in reality PvP is a whole different animal. A PUG is basically raw meat for pre-made team in PvP. That said I would like to see a distinction like a Normal PvP and a Elite PvP. That would be advantageous to the players who need to learn how to PvP. On normal setting it should be PUGs only. Elite setting bring your team or at least understand you will be open teaming possibly crossfaction. This would help too if they gave PvP rankings for players. You could even rank the ships they fly. Example someone may be a hell of a pilot in a escort but suck in a cruiser or sci ship. So instead or ranking that player rank his ship. Then you have an idea of how many victories, how much damage, and how much healing the guy does.
Gee let's see.... more enjoyable gameplay. Gosh a troll free environment.
Maybe. Depends on the actual effect on the queues and on the servers, which is where I was going with that. If you can't start a queue because they're hopelessly fractured, I agree that you won't have to deal with trolls but I'm not sure it will be more enjoyable gameplay.
Maybe there wouldn't be a queue meltdown. In which case I will cheerfully admit that I'm wrong. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of block lists, I'm just trying to think about what might go wrong.
The Roleplayers would be able to actually use the servers without griefers.
This has nothing to do with instances of social zones. This has to do with PvE/PvP queued content. Highly unlikely Cryptic will institute the "Total Invisibility" option. That's been discussed before and there are a lot of problems with that approach. IF it ever happens, I think it's years away. Cryptic has other priorities on their plate right now.
Call me an optimist but more people would probably play the game. That translates into more money in the coffers which is the main reason PW owns the game. Then there is the freed up time of GMs to handle real pressing issues. It is a real win/win situation.
Simple solutions to address leeching and griefing would also do the job. My bet is on Cryptic looking for simple, targeted fixes where they can. Block lists would be simple for the players, but not necessarily simple for Cryptic.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Along with the fact that waiting times differ hugely depending on the time of day would mean people could potentially abuse this system to grief certain players.
What's with this obsession with the specter of griefing? There's too many players to effectively grief someone using this mechanic. Stop worrying about that one time someone was mean to you in an online game, and get over it.
It seems remarkably deferential to the AFKers, and entirely burdensome to non-AFKers, besides being elitist and subversive of the existing queue system.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Comments
Part of me sees it as a bunch of whining and crying that he doesn't want to do the work of finding his own friends that play like he does, and if you don't play HIS GAME the way HE THINKS, then he wants to ignore you to hell and back, and it's the dev's problem to make that easier on him. Oh, but he still wants to PUG, only PUG with a group of his choosing... which isn't a PUG at all.
The other part of me is saying I love this idea. I don't know how many trolls I've met in PUGs that spend so much time yelling, they don't contribute anything to the group, then end up rage quiting because no one is listening to him, regardless of how well the STF is doing with or without him. Those I'd love to put on a block list and never have to deal with again.
So, like I said I'm kind of mixed on this. Not because of the AFKers, but because of the trolls out there.
As the do-not-group-lists only concern interations between exactly 2 players, adding one will not harm the ability for the blocked person to group with other people. Also the blocker and the blocked would suffer equally in their ability to group because only groups with both of them together are forbidden.
It would be more similar to the effect of the ignore buttun without the chat ban - the ignorers can't read you any more, but everyone elso can.
Only if you manage to annoy a considerable part of the population you will see a problem. I can't say that this can't happen as e.g. the ground-STF-Pugging comunity on some timezones is not that big and if you manage to get blocked by all four accounts on several dozens of pugs on the same timeslot for AFK-piking, well, you will probably see results.
Making friends and spending time together gaming -> good
Sticking to friend for the sole purpose of avoiding having to deal with strangers in a pug who might be idiots/grievers (and not because you like the company of your "friends")-> bad
It is hard to abuse something that is personal to the player and finite in numbers. Because of this it would be hard for people to convince people to put a target on their list and waste a slot on something so pathetic as targeted greifing.
Though they would have to make it so there is no silencing to the block list, or if there is it is personal and does not work as the current ignore does. Though remove the account silencing from the ignore list neds to be done ASAP.
I understand your quandry, let me see if I can clarify my position. I have friends and fleetmates I play with when they are online. What I am asking for is a way to avoid people who choose to act trollish or simply are using bots to harvest rewards or those who do nothing to contribute to the mission at hand. It is very aggravating to lose your time invested and a superior reward in a STF because of one person.
You know how annoying the guy who sends random fleet or team invites to form a fleet is in ESD? You politely respond no thanks but the guy keeps sending team invites. That is the type of behavior that gets the ignore list activated. Give us a choice is all I am asking for.
This, right here.
This is just one reason is why I say that Cryptic might be more interested in specifically targeting AFK rather than reworking the queue system yet again.
An outright Block or ignore list would create a strong potential to splinter the queues even more than they are right now, to the point where it could become nearly impossible to fill a queue. In addition to the amount of overhead necessary to process the lists of everyone who applies to a queue. The ROI doesn't seem to be a good one there.
An Avoid list that doesn't guarantee separating players into different queues wouldn't be quite as bad. But then it doesn't completely solve the problem, does it? And the processing overhead might be worse.
Specifically targeting AFK and other such undesirable behavior* -might- be a more manageable problem to solve from Cryptic's perspective. It wouldn't run contrary to the intended way queues should work. And the other issues with player incompatibility could be addressed by -- yes -- private queues or otherwise choosing not to PUG.
*When I say undesirable behavior, I am referring to specific in-game actions that can be quantified as undesirable, such as spawn camping and the like. I doubt there is a good way to address simply not being a good team player.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
but having the block list to avoid certain players would be worth it.
it might become a problem for the Queues but there is always problems.
comes with the territory of playing a online game.
but one problem such as the afk players. are abusing a loop hole
in the rules and exploiting it. so us the players want to take matters
into our own hands by having options such as having a block list to
not play with cheaters...
but this is just my view,other might feel differently.
Who gets to decide if you or the 'ignored' person is kept out of the PUG?, you would be limiting a persons chance (or your own ) to be selected and its too open to abuse (a whole fleet could get members to add a person to ignore)
I don't think its workable.
The people who have a conection problem just need to say so in zone chat. As for the players who are deliberately sabotaging the STF you are only talking about four people who may or may not put that person on ignore.
Who gets to decide? Good question the simplest answer is to base it on first person quequed. Do you realize how many people queque during any given 30 second period? A whole fleet might put someone on ignore out of how many hundreds of thousands of players on STO? Sorry not buying it. Everyone in STO has rubbed someone the wrong way at one time or another. All we are asking for is a way to avoid being quequed with them.
-> Stupid Player 1 ignores me because he doesnt like my ship.
-> Its night, only one STF queue is open (very theoretical but you get it)
-> Stupid Player 1 joined this STF, one spot left
-> I cannot join because he ignored me (without a good reason)
Just go to Kerrat for an hour or so and beat up some klingons and/or feds. You will see yourself on lot of ignore lists afterwards. Now its not like you did something bad (except from their view) and will now have a lot less queues to join into.
Thats a pretty large assumption. Somtimes I have to wait 10/15 minutes to get into a pug, somtimes even longer.
And for PVP the waiting times are huge, does your 'block' list apply for this too? if not thats another complication that must be catered for.
Along with the fact that waiting times differ hugely depending on the time of day would mean people could potentially abuse this system to grief certain players.
If you dont like the current system why not join a fleet and make sure you dont have to pug?
I have spent over 3 years in Kerrat on a daily basis. Yes there are a lot of hurt feelings in Kerrat.Those people who put you on a ignore list in Kerrat are people you probably would not want to be teamed with anyway.
Thats a pretty large assumption. Somtimes I have to wait 10/15 minutes to get into a pug, somtimes even longer.[/QUOTE]
Dude there is something seriously wrong then don't know what server you are on. The average wait time is roughly 20 seconds. I cannot recall waiting over 45 seconds at any point and I play this game 60-80 hrs a week on average.
Thats a pretty large assumption. Somtimes I have to wait 10/15 minutes to get into a pug, somtimes even longer.
And for PVP the waiting times are huge, does your 'block' list apply for this too? if not thats another complication that must be catered for.
Along with the fact that waiting times differ hugely depending on the time of day would mean people could potentially abuse this system to grief certain players.
If you dont like the current system why not join a fleet and make sure you dont have to pug?[/QUOTE]
The chances of the avoiding player would be lowered as much as those of the avoided player, so not useful as griefing tool. But i am thinking more and more it should be implemented as separate list.
If it needs to be i would also be ok with the avoiding player looses in queue priority whenever a conflict arises, so even less of a griefing toll. No problem for me to wait a second longer and not being grouped with the afk-piker.
the only solution for this issue is to basicly change the way queues work.
the afk issue is easy.the game does monitor if you are active.now if someone hasnt pushed any button or moved his mouse for say 2 minutes in an stf then he should get a warning.if within 5 minutes that person still is afk he should be banned from all queues for 1 hour.that is something simple.
about people with terrible builds or ships.they at least shouldnt be allowed to que on elite difficulty queues.the problem is on what basis do you decide that...hmmm maybe if that person hasnt done a sufficient amount of normal diff queues and successfuly completed them.
my issue is with people who see the hive ELITE que and say "oh that looks interesting lets see what happens" with out even having seen a tutorial vid in youtube before going in.
other people who dont know how to play yet think that a mission like hive can be taken care off by the other 4 players...and just enter and do nothing but get aggro and dying while making the mission a mess for the rest of us.
other people use cruisers and they think they can dps or even science ships do that!im a poor escort that gets easily popped by a tactical cube within less thatn 10 secs without support but with proper support i can rain down hell on anything thats inside my targeting reticle.i always find myself in the ackward position of having to tank, support and dps all at the same time.EDIT:i remember 1 time some people ignored me because i wouldnt tank...with an escort...and they had cruisers!yeah people like that exist.so what do you do?i remember one time it took me 45 mins to go through hive!!!make the elite missions available only to those people who can do them.make them unlockable through rep or something!
i wont even bother talking about the crystaline que.but at least some out of the 10 people you will find, someone will know how to play and you will be able to complete the mission.
am i a jerk?i dont think so.its just that in this game this phenomenon is unique.havent seen in other mmos noobs entering max difficulty dungeons in so massive numbers with such terrible builds.
people think that just because they just became VA they can take all the galaxy on their own...
i know the solution to our problem.its pretty simple.just play those queues with your fleet and friends so you wont have to deal with every little frak that wants to ruin your day.but not everyone is available daily.in the weekends there is no problem.but during the workdays of the week i am suffering.so now i just dont do anything during the work days and i only play on weekends.thats hurts my characters daily needs for dil,ec and marks.
do i over react?no.cause i work all day...and have a real life to live.i dont play 24/7.i play when i find the time.there are some bad days that all the queues are infected with people who just enter queues for the fun of it.you know...
"oh look at this shiny button...i just got to push it" attitude...and poor me that decided to have some fun for an hour has to suffer through all those people.consequently all this started when the game became f2p...
hmmmm this might be a little(just a little bit ) descriminating but i think it would be fun to make queues that can participate only subbed and LTS players.why? cause those players are actually paying for this game so its only logical to assume that most of them wont behave like the "others".
yeah actually that is a great idea!give us special queues for subbed people.this is an awesome idea.
yeah so those are some of my thoughts.
and also some people sit there moving there ship manually acting afk.
i still like my idea of a block list lol
Even assuming you are correct about the time for a search engine to perform a task, it would be .07 times X, where X is a composite of the number of players queuing up, the number and type of available queues, etc.
And then there is the fact that this is not a search engine that's optimized for searching. It's a game doing lots of other things at the same time. And the fact that this would not be just a simple search. It's really a multilevel sorting operation in real time and that is far more processor intensive and there's a lot more logic involved.
Maybe so. I'm not a "really good programmer" for an MMO or otherwise, so I'm not qualified to judge how easy or not easy it is. I can say that implementing this is not on their schedule and probably won't be until they get around to a PvP re-implementation. Certainly not until after LoR launch.
I don't know the numbers for how many people queue up in a 10 second window. I'm reasonably sure you don't know them either unless you're a Cryptic employee flying under the radar. In which case, you probably wouldn't be making statements like that. But I'm not talking about queue times. I'm talking about actual queues.
Nobody knows what would happen in this game if players suddenly had the ability to block whoever they want, for any reason. Even the Devs probably don't have more than a guess. If at any given time you only had to keep ten people out of the same queues, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. But you can't think that way in an MMO. You have to ask questions like, what if I have to keep ten thousand people separated at any given time? What would have happened in the CE event if there had been a block list in effect and everyone in it had their own maxed out Block list? What then?
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I dont randomly friend people for 1 good run, the queue system was put in place so I didnt have to make a bunch of friends just to play... I know its an mmo, but im not here to be everyones friend I am here to play STO, and that doesnt require me having anyone at all in my friends list (it never should).
I have friends who play the game, and i am also in a pretty active fleet, my point is that even with those options available not everyone wants to play stfs, it can be like pulling teeth to get a group together for premade.
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Well Bluegeek there ARE other MMOs running this sort of system like WoW for example. Heck even X-box live has a system in place to handle a block list. Then there is the other approach that Disney takes with Pirates of The Carribean where they actually have a team of live moderators who actually investigate and take action against offenders. Gee what a concept....
Cryptic has the software and the dev tools to make this block list work. The 64 Million Dollar question is will they?
If a team breaks down, allow the members to vote to remove the leaver penalty. If three teammates agree, then everyone can just leave without the penalty.
Gee let's see.... more enjoyable gameplay. Gosh a troll free environment. The Roleplayers would be able to actually use the servers without griefers. Call me an optimist but more people would probably play the game. That translates into more money in the coffers which is the main reason PW owns the game. Then there is the freed up time of GMs to handle real pressing issues. It is a real win/win situation.
And it would make pvp a whole lot better as well..
It would change the way groups are formed and in reality PvP is a whole different animal. A PUG is basically raw meat for pre-made team in PvP. That said I would like to see a distinction like a Normal PvP and a Elite PvP. That would be advantageous to the players who need to learn how to PvP. On normal setting it should be PUGs only. Elite setting bring your team or at least understand you will be open teaming possibly crossfaction. This would help too if they gave PvP rankings for players. You could even rank the ships they fly. Example someone may be a hell of a pilot in a escort but suck in a cruiser or sci ship. So instead or ranking that player rank his ship. Then you have an idea of how many victories, how much damage, and how much healing the guy does.
Maybe. Depends on the actual effect on the queues and on the servers, which is where I was going with that. If you can't start a queue because they're hopelessly fractured, I agree that you won't have to deal with trolls but I'm not sure it will be more enjoyable gameplay.
Maybe there wouldn't be a queue meltdown. In which case I will cheerfully admit that I'm wrong. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of block lists, I'm just trying to think about what might go wrong.
This has nothing to do with instances of social zones. This has to do with PvE/PvP queued content. Highly unlikely Cryptic will institute the "Total Invisibility" option. That's been discussed before and there are a lot of problems with that approach. IF it ever happens, I think it's years away. Cryptic has other priorities on their plate right now.
Simple solutions to address leeching and griefing would also do the job. My bet is on Cryptic looking for simple, targeted fixes where they can. Block lists would be simple for the players, but not necessarily simple for Cryptic.
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It seems remarkably deferential to the AFKers, and entirely burdensome to non-AFKers, besides being elitist and subversive of the existing queue system.
Winner gets the lightest penalty. :P
That's the idea.